‘Star City’ Season Finale With Creators Ben Nedivi and Matt Wolpert. Plus, Emmy Nominations!

25:12Andy Greenwald:Now was, for example, was the arena character a way in for you? Did you have a particular person, not in terms of actor, but one of these characters, an anchor character that you were excited to explore? I am relatively ignorant of the deep for all mankind lore. So I know some characters are pulled from that show as well. I didn't know if there was one particular way in. The arena character was one of those ways in because the Star City started to kind of take form as we were working on season four of For All Mankind. And so we were consciously telling the story. We introduced her as an older character who was very kind of, you know, ominous and foreboding.

25:50And then we were like, now we get to tell the origin story of how somebody becomes like that. And so we were conscious of setting that up and then backing into kind of the more human part of her. And we actually wrote the pilot in Bulgaria as we were shooting those scenes. And so we were kind of steeped in that Eastern European feeling at the time. It was kind of a perfect timing for that. A lot of meat and potatoes.

26:15Andy Greenwald:I feel like you guys have been very forthcoming in other interviews. You've talked about the influence that the Chernobyl miniseries had. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that because even just on the basis of the conceit of this is Russian but spoken in British stage accents, that works. That is a proven track record now that we understand that. I was wondering the role that that show played for you both creatively but also in terms of production and actually, as we were joking before, boots on the ground. Yeah, a huge role. I mean, I'd like to think we're in a weird way, part of the Chernobyl universe now.

26:50Andy Greenwald:Poor Adam Nogaitis must be like, I'm English. Would you like to see me in like a men's national jersey drinking a pint? Because no, I did that. You know, first of all, the show blew us away like it did most of the world and anyone who watched it. But I think more than anything, the quality of it, just watching it, how it really felt like you were in that place in time. So one of our first things when we were looking at doing the show is like, where do we do this? We're like, let's do it wherever the hell Chernobyl did it. And I think Lithuania quickly stood out, not only because that's where they did the show, but it's Eastern Europe.

27:23A lot of the people on our crew, their parents, they lived this existence. So you were talking to our producer, Lynette, of people we knew there who could tell us directly, no, no, that wallpaper's wrong.

27:33Andy Greenwald:Or that, the toilet would not be in the same room as the, you know, they knew these details and that added a whole other level to the production. In terms of the accents, I think that was honestly one of the toughest decisions. I mean, early on in the process, we definitely explored and considered the idea of doing it all in Russian. Because, you know, in the end, that would be amazing if you could pull that off, right? I mean, that would be the most authentic version. You find yourself in Tim Cook's office just explaining. Trust me. Trust me. Yeah. But, you know, the reality of it is just so impossible.

28:05And then even doing the Russian accents, which it's so hard to pull those off. And in the end, you know, we struggled with it. And we actually called at some point Craig Mazin just to be like, let's talk to. And we said, what went into that? Why did you decide to go this way? And he was very blunt with us. He's like, don't even think about it. Just do the British accents. And not even British accents, but I think for us it was European. Because we have actors actually from also non-UK.

28:28Andy Greenwald:Great David Dinchik. That's right. The man who we wanted to work with him for a year. Like we've been trying to find a role for him for five years. Top of the Lake. Families like ours he was just in. He's always great. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Tinker Taylor. Like he's just, and he's friends with Joel Kinnaman. And so we had met with him a while ago and we'd just been constantly trying to work with him. So, but to Ben's point, it was like, we told Reese Ifans, like, use your Welsh accent. Like, you know, because there's regions within the Soviet Union, like someone from Moscow doesn't sound like someone from Siberia or from Kazakhstan or all these places.

29:02So it felt like it added a layer of even more authenticity and like capturing the sort of pastiche of the Soviet people. There's even like a socioeconomic thing with the accents. I mean, we didn't dive into it too far, but it does convey something, the accent you have, like the more posh you are. And there were these differences in Soviet society as well. So we tried to play into that as well as much as we could. But in the end, we didn't want the actors to be doing just accent work the entire time. These are incredible actors. I mean, we knew what we had and we said, let's make the best of who we have here.

29:35Andy Greenwald:So we covered a little bit the historical interest in the period and the details. And you're talking about how just by being there, you got the aesthetics and regional things, right? I'm curious about how you pursued the cultural feeling. And by that, I mean, this is something I talked about when we were reviewing or discussing the penultimate episode. I kept coming back to that sense that Joseph Davies plays so beautifully in that brutal scene in his apartment of indignity. Yeah. Which is a very amorphous term to throw at an actor. Yeah. But what the show builds over its season is that feeling of ultimately that's what defeats you.

30:13Andy Greenwald:You know, you can get angry, you can be sad, but that hollowed out feeling. And I wondered how you chased the verisimilitude of that emotion. No, it really is the kind of inevitability of the state on some level. And that as much as you can try to tilt at the windmills of that, like there is a futility to it on some level. But on the same side, like one of my favorite scenes in the season is that scene between Sergei and the chief designer in the truck. Yeah. Where Sergei is just beside himself. He's betrayed. You know, the state has really won over this guy. and the chief designer says like we still sent somebody to venus and they can't take that away from us and to me that's the that's the counterpoint to that moment in the in the apartment which is like a real low for him is like he he still did something that you know as a human being he can have pride in and i think that's the uh the real struggle in that type of authoritarian system where there's this Russian movie called Leviathan also, which is amazing.

31:20And that really captured that as well, where like as much as one person is trying to fight against the power of the state, they're almost helpless, but you can still, it's human nature to keep striving at that.

31:32Andy Greenwald:I think it speaks also to the really brilliant job you guys did in constructing a season, because the moment you're talking about, Matt, in the finale with the chief designer and Sergei is in some ways an echo of another scene of indignity in the pilot where the chief designer gets his medal in an empty room. And there is no sense that anything will be remembered or seen. And at least these two share something. And it's about being seen and heard and remembered, right, in a communal way. Exactly. It's really the struggle of TV writers. I think that's what we're talking about. Please, please do this.

32:01At least you guys are in a room together weeping, you know. Star City is an allegory for TV writers. That's okay. Indignity, we suffer in the system.

32:09Andy Greenwald:The dirty truth is all TV shows are allegories for TV writing. I mean, that's what the money is for. It's like famously, that's David Chase and Matt Weiner. The suitcase, that whole episode is basically, yeah, about the writing process. He'll never let me out of this room. It's Sopranos season four or whatever it was. I wanted to talk to you about two specific pieces of casting that certainly make the show what it is. One was Anna Maxwell Martin as Raskova, who's a type of monster I don't know if we've seen before on television. And that's saying something in an era where there's like literally a monster's universe on your streaming network.

32:39Andy Greenwald:Right. Right. And Alice Engler as Anastasia, who is a type of heroine, I'm not sure I see very often, you know, in the sense that she's sort of halting and uncertain. And a lot of it, what she gives is interior. Yeah. Can you talk about the casting process of those characters and how they shaped, of those actors and how they shaped the characters that you had, that existed only in your mind? I'm glad you picked out those two in particular, because I think those were the key, some of the key casting in the show. And I think Anna also even a fan of Forever and she it's it's insane to me how little known she is outside the UK I mean she's quite famous oh no she's considered royalty like acting royalty in the UK and outside you know her name isn't as familiar but anyone who sees who's seen her work would not be surprised by the performance she gives here and nor were we but I have to say like her approach to this character from the early conversations we knew she could do it but I think what we all wanted is to do a different type of villain and not just play into the cliche of this because it so easily becomes a caricature if you do this wrong and i think the nuance she brought from honestly her background in comedy i think more than anything what we've learned you know over the years is if you've done comedy you can do anything yes whether you're a writer an actor whatever and i and i feel because it gives you this flexibility and a freedom and she'd be on set like cracking jokes i'm like making everyone laugh like just fooling around and then within second okay let's roll and she's now with a gun in her hand yelling and terrifying that's the talent you're dealing with and when you have that kind of talent the key thing i think in your role is just to let them let them do what they need to do and she she understood early on what what was entailed and sort of like as the season progresses you know the layers come out more and more of that character whereas with alice um and what she brought you know to anastasia that was sort of the key casting for us because like anastasia is the one that starts the whole show yeah and you wanted someone that almost in the beginning is in the background you're not even paying attention to her it worked she's might as well yeah she's and you cast the the is it katerina the woman who's going to go into space you cast that so brilliantly as well she's so dynamic exactly you can't take your eyes off her exactly it's also i think with both of those characters which interesting to us is the arc over the season with both of them because um with ludmila we really put all our chips in on making her a monster in the beginning and making her like the most intimidating person, like how, but in our, you know, in our writing process, we, we think a lot about, well, how is that human being made into that?

35:09And, and her experiences in the war and there's all these references. And then in the last two episodes, we were like, okay, roll up our sleeves and like, okay, now let's humanize her. Yeah. Let's try to, but Anna, like she was, I think this is something a lot of actors don't have. She has the patience to like be the bad guy for enough time that when you humanize him, you earned it. And I think with Alice as well, seeing her start to become more confident in herself and understanding the power that she actually does have. She probably has more power than almost anybody because of how famous she is.

35:47And her face is everywhere. And she's starting by the end of the season to kind of come to terms with that. And you see that she just, that scene with her and David Dentschick, where she's like talking back to him in a more confident way. And he says like, oh, you've grown. Like she is, and what's fascinating is Alice is so like the opposite of Anastasia. She's just this kind of like overflowing with joy and passion and like, and yet she captured that. That's all like, she just put that all inside the shell, you know, and it's really fascinating performance. Acting. Yeah. I mean, go figure.

36:24Andy Greenwald:But Moodmilla Slapstick Arc, season two, is that weird? The outtakes? Yeah. It's like an E &E movie or something. It was hard. There were times where like, okay, we are doing a dark drama here set in the Lego. She would just be cracking jokes, which in a way was a blessing, you know, because in like drama, especially comedy, is so appreciated. Yes. But she is the one that I would not have expected. She's the cut up. She's the problem. she's doing the Apatow alts. Oh, it's 100%. The other challenge of the show, of which I'm sure there are many, to me would be how much of it has to come together off the page.

37:02Andy Greenwald:Because you guys are here and you have a room and you're carrying the spirit of what you think the show could be. But so much of it depends on very specific location scouting, on production design, art direction. Someone has to do Building 12 and make it look like that and then shoot it to understand how it's working like that. I couldn't get over that you built like an emotional crescendo of an episode around Joseph Davies writing algebra. That's veteran showrunnership, honestly. If you're just like, trust us, we'll pull this off. I can't decide if it's a question more about the process or about whatever confidence or skills you've gained in your time working on For All Mankind that allowed you to trust to that degree.

37:45The run we've had between Fargo and For All Mankind was very helpful because these are two unique shows where every season is a totally new right story new characters new world in certain ways that's unique to television so i think it's prepared us for basically like okay jump in how are you going to re like yeah and not be precious yeah um but as you know i mean this job is exhaustive um and we were doing this we were running this at the same time as we were running for all mankind and we were back and forth between lithuania and matt he would be there i would be here we would be swapping every two weeks we're constantly i didn't know what time zone i was in at a certain point.

38:19I was waking up at three in the morning in LA, up all night in Luther. It was crazy. But at the same time, you know, I think we had such a passion for this show and this concept. We couldn't believe, honestly, that we were allowed to make this show. We constantly kept feeling like our KGB was like, are they going to pull the plug? Are they really letting us do this?

38:36Andy Greenwald:So this was the veneer emission. You really were letting yourself do the show. Lithuania was our Venus. Yeah. And, you know, it's that thing. I mean, there's a quote I say a lot. Like, Lena Waithe said this about show running, like it's being beaten to death with your dream. And I love, I love that line because I think it captures what this job is that, yes, I'm doing, we're doing what we love, you know? So you can't, you can't like complain, oh man, it's hard. Oh, we're flying to Lithuania. I mean, we're, we're creating these worlds and doing things that as a kid, I would be amazed that we're doing, but it is, it is all encompassing.

39:09And you, if you don't feel strongly about it, you don't do, do the hard work, then it doesn't work. And I think that the other key to that is, is like Ben and I had such a clear vision of what the show should feel and look like at the beginning. And then we found people that really got that vision. Nick Murphy, our director of the first two episodes, Paul Spriggs, the production designer, Steve Oster, our producer over there, Brendan Uagama, the DP, like all these guys and Nicole Fishnaller, our costume designer, like they all were pushing in the same direction. And so when we weren't able to be there every second of every day, you had people you could trust because you can't do this alone.

39:49I mean, there's no possible way to do that. And so, but it really is important. Like if you, if, if you're doing this and everybody isn't working toward the same goal, it's not going to be good at all. In fact, what I appreciate about a lot of these people we worked with is there were times they would push back on us in terms of like, I remember our makeup, you know, they were like, cause we early on, we said, no makeup, it's gotta be accurate. and then you get there like okay maybe a little maybe this is kind of but she this is giving Lithuania in winter hold on I mean maybe a little something but they held our feet to the fire sometimes like no no no this is what you said you wanted the ugly you wanted the real you wanted the this is what's the the truth is you asked for makeup because you had just gotten off the plane a little help here come on yeah yeah no but they it's an incredible team and I think they all also saw what we were going for and were excited about it yeah they bought in

40:39Andy Greenwald:yeah see this is kind of like deeper showrunnership. But like I was so impressed with the way you guys played with time in your story. You know, anyone who had any passing familiarity with For All Mankind, even if they haven't gone deep into the seasons, knows that the show jumps forward and knows that there is a full spectrum of this alternate history to draw from. Knowing that going in and maybe even you guys knowing what the audience's preconceived notions might be, the fact that the episode, I don't know if it's four or five, that ends with Irina discovering the perfume picks up instant pickup the next episode was, I thought, really bold and exciting and also really destabilizing because then when Venera seems to be in absolute ruin, then you jump seven months.

41:26Andy Greenwald:And I wonder how much time you give to thinking about time. Too much time, thinking about time, honestly. But I think part of it is just you have to kind of let the story tell you what it needs and not fall into patterns, you know? And so it just, it felt like four needed to go right into five. And I think one of the things we've taken is like, this show is a slow burn, but there's a version of this show that's a really slow burn where like you don't get to the stuff that happens in four. Like Irina doesn't find out till almost the end of the season who the mole is. And it's like, we felt like, you know, the story took us to this place of like, let's get to each big moment and kind of like change the world.

42:08and so that you never know where you're going to, where the ground's going to shift. It's funny because I remember episode six in particular, when we finished writing that, we're like, I mean, that's sort of the end of the season, isn't it? I mean, isn't that a great ending of a season? I'm like, what the hell are we doing now? Like restarting the engine with two episodes left was quite a challenge, I remember, because we felt like... Yeah, we were like, this could be a mistake. Yeah. This could be a big mistake. Which is honestly the best parts of writing when you're in that place of, you know, this could work or not work, but let's go for it, you know, at some level.

42:43Andy Greenwald:This is specifically what I wanted to ask you about because in my experience talking to writing teams, one of the greatest advantages of working with someone is you have someone next to you pushing you. Yeah. Being like, no, go bigger, go bolder. You ask where you could go after ending the season in episode six, I'll tell you, you'll have an aggrieved wife rescue her husband from fucking space. Yeah. Yeah, you don't get there. So is that a correct read on an aspect of your collaboration to push each other to go bigger? Or bolder? No, no, I think it is. It's that and it's someone you can check in with.

43:19You know, I think there are constant moments. It's really interesting, though, because I think we both, we have such a similar point of view generally, but there's probably like 20 % that we see differently. And then we have those conversations, arguments, maybe, where we work it out. but like I remember in season two of For All Mankind we were with the Gordo Tracy duct tape run that was another moment where we were like this we were sitting on set and watching these actors run around in duct tape and being like there's a 80 % chance this is awful and silly and yet we looked at each other and we're like but when we thought of this it was good and yes it might and we can it's a gut check with each other there's a moment like I rely like we're not crazy this is gonna work and I think in a way I don't know how anyone does this job alone by the way like you kind of need I mean the whole thing is collaboration so we've had a writer's room of two since we began so yeah it's incredibly helpful especially with the two shows going at the same time especially when you are doing something like this where you know oh my god episode six suddenly became a finale because I think the other thing with television at least the way we do it we never really know the ending until we're in it and I think it's scary because you're like you're shooting the first few episodes you have not written the last episode.

44:38And I think that fear actually does something interesting. That's the way to put it. It creates a lot of anxiety. You lose hair. No, it kind of allows you to react to what you're seeing happening on screen and in the dailies and with the actors. And instead of being like, no, no, do what I have set out, suddenly we're reacting to what we're seeing in the first two episodes.

44:56Andy Greenwald:I think that's the beauty of TV. It can be reactive. It can be intuitive. You can enter a flow state. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's exactly what it is. And it's especially when time is getting short, you know, and you're, I mean, I think almost every finale of both For All Mankind and Star City, we've written, like we've delivered it like almost right when production or maybe even a little after. But there is, there is a, there's something about the fear in your stomach and the sort of time pressure that you get out of your own way a little bit, you know, and I think some of our best writing has been in those.

45:28What's the anecdote you would give with the baseball player? Oh, it was El Duque on the Yankees. He had this thing in the world. I don't remember what year it was, but it was in like the late 90s. He said, like, I felt the pressure, but I felt no fear when he had like pitches for the first time in the World Series. And I think that's the, you know, the key to it is you can't get overwhelmed by it, even if you're under great pressure. I mean, he also defected from Cuba.

45:54Andy Greenwald:He has a different relationship. We went to film school, right? That was hard. Alone. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's so interesting that you guys, I mean, it's the role of the showrunner to understand what the characters are thinking at every moment and what the wallpaper should look like. But also you have to trust that the show that you've built that can succeed in miniature of arena touching wallpaper can also allow for a Venusian self-sacrificial implosion. Like, you guys did that, too. And it was super earned and incredible because I have never seen that before. Yeah. And make it feel like the same show, I have to say.

46:30That's what I mean. That's the thing, because it's one thing with For All Mankind, it's getting to a point where, you know, frankly, we weren't like sci-fi guys before For All Mankind. I mean, everything in Hollywood is like, what do you write? You know, and we started in comedy. Yeah. Fargo was sort of comedy drama, so it was kind of perfect for us. But then For All Mankind came up like, we're not sci-fi guys. But I think in a way, it's not just a sci-fi show. And I think coming to this, it was like, wait, is this a spy show? it was a sci-fi show? Like, I think if there is our bread and butter, it's like, we can't define it.

46:56You get it wrong? Yeah, exactly. You get the genre wrong? But I think what was important to us is whenever you're in a space mission on this show, and we kept emphasizing this, even in the designs of the ships, how the ships look, we didn't want it to feel like a different show. We wanted to feel like this is a different kind of prison up there. And, you know, the thing that guided us a lot was like, in a way, as difficult, you know, for all mankind, you know, space is dangerous. And on this show, I feel like what's more dangerous is getting back from space.

47:21Andy Greenwald:Yeah. And I love what you just said, because I was thinking there was a moment in watching the finale when I was like, my first thought was, my God, what does that cabin smell like? But my second thought was like, how could anyone, let alone two people, survive nine months in a tin can? And then I realized you've given us a show that answers the question because they've spent their whole lives in some version of isolation. They're more prepared for it than anyone. Than anyone. Totally. It's really cool thematically. Most of my questions that I have remaining are about like, what more? I know you can't confirm or deny anything.

47:55Andy Greenwald:I imagine that you have thoughts about what future seasons of the show could entail. For sure. Do you envision it similarly to For All Mankind and that we'll get like go-go Gorbachev 80s? Or are we focused more theoretically on these characters? I think one of the things that we're most excited about is not doing the time jumps. Nice. On both like a personal mental health level and also just on a creative level. that we don't have to deal with prosthetics or anything like that. But it really is like you were saying with episodes four and five. We want to keep in this world and just keep telling this story in the immediate sense.

48:31And it's been so great to see how many people out there are really responding to the show and loving it. And I can't wait to keep telling those stories.

48:41Andy Greenwald:What's the real estate market like in Vilnius? Or can you convince Delta to do a direct flight? I just want to make this easier for you. I'd kill for a direct flight. That would be a game changer. Your mile status must be pretty elite right now. That's the one thing that was keeping me going. It's like, can I get lounge access? I can tell you about every lounge in the Frankfurt Airport. Oh, yeah. Frankfurt. If you want to learn about the Frankfurt Airport, I think that's like hell, in my opinion. No, Frankfurt's airport is hell on earth. Yeah. I will say. If you want to experience hell, that's the closest you're going to get in our earth.

49:14Andy Greenwald:Because my experience in like covering and talking to like Tony Bourdain and then also people who worked with him was so interesting, although in retrospect kind of makes sense, is that like near the end of his, not just his life, but like making the television show is that he would get to the most exotic place and then send someone out for Pizza Hut. He's like, I don't have to be that person all the time. I need to carry some comfort with me. I wondered what your Frankfurt airport or Vilnius late night Pizza Hut was. It's funny, we had to reference this in From Mankind, too. Like, whenever I'm traveling overseas, there's always one day where I go to get McDonald's.

49:47Yes. And I think, or am I allowed to say McDonald's again? I mean, okay. One of you is saying it already. So we're actually shills for the McDonald's Corporation. This is what this all, really, that's what Star City is all about.

49:58Andy Greenwald:Genuinely, it's what those cosmonauts would want. Oh, 100%. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, and when the first McDonald's opened, it was like euphoria. Better than going to Venus. Yeah. But there is something about the taste of home, and it's strange when you're in Lithuania in the winter for months. And I love the food. I love the culture. But I have to say, there's only so many variations of meat inside potatoes or potato inside meat that a human can handle. They had discovered donuts recently in Lithuania. But the problem is they were then trying to make it like the Lithuanian version of a donut. So it's like pickled herring stuffed donut.

50:34And I was like, this is not where the donut should be, guys.

50:37Andy Greenwald:You're not quite getting it. This is really helpful context for me because when I was feeling, oh, I'm homesick in London. Should I go to Din Tai Fung or Egg Slut today? You know, it's not exactly the same. No, it's funny, too, because when we talk about Lithuania, like a lot of the people here, it almost felt to them like we're going to Siberia. And it's actually a beautiful first world country, part of the U.N., part of Europe. Honestly, I fell in love with that place. Vilnius is such an amazing city and Countess. and like it's really a beautiful country and the people there are so nice, you know, and it's, it was a great experience other than all the, you know, the travel was honestly what killed us.

51:13Andy Greenwald:Did you ever catch any British actors being like, oh, I've got an hour and a half to get with staring down the barrel of that commute? Oh, yeah. It's funny because they all kind of fell in love with it in their own way. It kind of, what being away from their homes and being away from your home sometimes does also, you create more of like a unit, a family unit there because you have to rely on each other. Yeah, but the place, I mean, And, you know, it's also, I'd always wanted to go there because my grandparents had met there in the ghetto, actually. And I remember when we first got there to scout it, the guy who was showing us around, he kept saying, like, I can't wait.

51:45He looked at me. He's always like, I can't wait to show you the ghetto. You'll see what we did with the ghetto. It's amazing. And I was like, what did you do with the ghetto? And we arrived. And it was like, it was like fancied up, you know, like gussied up. There's a Gucci. Look at this. Look at what we did with your ghetto. I'm like, yeah, it's wonderful. It's beautiful. but it was a bit surreal because you know now the hippest part of a lot of these old Eastern Europeans are the ghettos because they were like you know cobblestone streets really narrow really cool and now they're the center of life should have walked around being like

52:13Andy Greenwald:my culture is not your costume just like telling my grandparents generation they're like yeah I mostly hang out on the Lower East Side and they're like why? yeah get out you exist because we got away from there right what are you still doing? what's wrong with you? that's hilarious that's exactly what my grandparents were saying like get out of there go to the what? Go to where the golf club is. It's what we did this for, you idiot. All right. So can't confirm or deny anything, but the hope is there will be more Star City. In the meantime, there is more for all mankind. And that's next on your docket.

52:44Andy Greenwald:Is that correct? Yeah, we are heading to Bulgaria to shoot some. And we're toward the end of the last season. Yeah, it's really crazy. I got to say, I did get it. In no disrespect to a show that I admire and that I will return to. but when I did hear from your publicist that you were going back to Eastern Europe, I was like, oh yeah. I didn't realize that you had like multiple stops. Multiple Eastern Europe. You're across a lot of the former wars out there. I'm not kidding when I say we are soon to be the experts on Eastern European film spots. Incredible. Well, that's pretty much where we're all going to be filming soon anyway.

53:20I mean, it sounds, unfortunately, it does sound that way. But it is, it's quite a feat, you know, in this time and day to finish a show. Yeah. Any show. Yeah. from the beginning because even when we were pitching for all mankind honestly like i don't think that show gets made in any other time and place as it went when it was it's such a weird idea huge sci-fi based on no ip and and the fact that we're now getting to the end of it um is quite incredible i mean so we definitely feel the weight i mean we also feel the the exhaustion and burnout i think a lot of the showrunner creators feel was they're getting to the end of their shows but it has been cool because it's a show honestly that's been shooting in Los Angeles for the most part since the beginning, which is also so rare.

54:00You guys nailed it. I know. We lucked out. We lucked out. I know. Last ones on the gravy trade. I know. Don't just show off the lights. It does. It was sad. Like the last few weeks on set, you kind of felt like, you know, are we ever going to shoot here again? You know, and that feel, that really was. Yeah, it was emotional. Yeah, because this crew, these people we love that we've worked with, I've done so much. Like it is that feeling with this, we can't just let this go. So hopefully, hopefully things turn around. Did you tell them about the Frankfurt Airport.

54:26Andy Greenwald:Like that will help LA. That will help the LA push. In the transition. But guys, thank you so much. I can't say enough about this show. I think it's really a special show. And I think the accomplishment is just incredible. Really congratulations. Thank you very much. And thanks for joining me. This was a lot of fun.