‘The Gentlemen’ Season 2 Premiere and ‘Lanterns’ Episode 3. Plus, ‘East of Eden’ Trailer.

17:12Andy Greenwald:You were like, oh, God. You were like looking at your travel baseball schedule in the hallways. They were like, just, man, all you do is hit line drives. Just ropes, frozen ropes all day. Do you know, like when I was in, I think I was pretty young. I think I was like 12. Yeah. But, you know, we were, we have like our league, city league, you know what I mean? Sure. We basically have our Fairmount league that we played on different teams on. And then there was a fair amount All-Stars team that traveled the city to play different teams. And then within that citywide league, one year I made All-Star.

17:45Good for you. And like my coach or my assistant coach was the assistant coach of the All-Star team. And I was like doing something and I could hear them talking about like what the lineup should be. My assistant coach goes, my guy can hit cleanup. He hits line drives. And I was like, fuck, this is as good as I've ever felt. That's the coolest thing I've ever heard. Until I got sampled on a Zara face record.

18:07Andy Greenwald:you've lived a pretty decent life. I got to say things that were cool. Yeah. And it wasn't CR month. It was two things that have never happened to me and never will. I promise you that. Um, I have, I have a followup about D and D, but I did want to ask that one thing that I've observed through contemporary parenthood and you've, you've observed it too, just by living here is that like the expectations of parents in travel sports is like way, way different than what I imagined it being or observed it being. do you think that if young CR was young now would you have done travel baseball with what it requires and like like traveling all over the 4am wake up calls and like the like the complete devotion swimming for a while uh you know there was some like wake up at four and drive to northern new jersey for a meet kind of things um but i you know i mean like in some ways my diminutive height was like a blessing because it was like this is probably not going to happen you know what yeah but what's his name what's the what's the what's the little spark plug guy who's on the ass who's on the astros altuve yeah but he's a cheater right okay well nobody's perfect i just meant that like he's carved out a pretty good career for himself he's pretty good yeah i mean there's examples of like incredible athletes overcoming maybe a height willie lampkin on the eagles for example how tall is he 5 7 well they say he's 5 11 but they talk about him like he's an oompa loompa okay so i think the truth lies somewhere in between okay my my dnd thing was in Philly it was just like go to Fishtown and then go to like Abington.

19:34It wasn't like that hard.

19:35Andy Greenwald:For my school like the cross country meets at Girard College was like the most exotic thing you could ever possibly do. First of all it was called college. Sure. And then there are the other reasons. But you know basically just run around. Yeah. It's pretty easy. No one was like my guy can run forth. He runs. Like they're like he's on the team too. What I guess I should say when I say like it's all you know you generate your own characters. I never successfully like Like, maybe it's successful or unsuccessful. Like, I never played a lot of campaigns. You know, I didn't have to roll deep enough to do that.

20:07Andy Greenwald:But maybe this is even nerdier. But I did read a lot of Dragonlance novels. Okay. And you never went that far deep. I don't know what that is. So the thing that they're saying, like Forgotten Realms or whatever this one is, Ravenloft, like, within the world of D &D, which is notoriously open, they would have, like, world sets. where in this world there's this magic, these sorts of things, these are the stakes. And then often they would do like, they would sort of flood the zone with novels set in the world to draw people in. And then maybe there were cartoons for the more popular ones. And I think real heads know that those Dragonlance trilogies rip.

20:44I wonder if Taylor Sheridan's ever considered getting into like a dice rolling RPG like this.

20:50Andy Greenwald:Just in case he's run out of people to give wedgies to? No, just like not for Dungeons and Dragons, but like you could be in the world of lioness. Stop giving this away for free. That is such a money-minting exercise. Yeah. You're a Ukrainian drone operator with a crippling... Roll to see how many women are in the bathtub with you. 20-sided die. Well, that could get really awkward pretty fast. Depends how big the bathtub is. When the sun goes down, the appetizers come out. Yeah, you heard that right. Late-night half-price appetizers are here at Applebee's. saucy, sweet, and spicy boneless wings, crispy, cheesy mozzarella sticks, creamy spinach and artichoke dip.

21:33Your favorite apps, half price, available every single night because why should appetizers have curfews? Tap the banner to learn more. Dining only for a limited time at participating locations. Restrictions apply. Copyright 2026 Applebee's Restaurant, LLC. This is the way.

21:50Andy Greenwald:Hi, I'm Jon Favreau. We are launching the all new Star Wars, the Mandalorian and Grogu official podcast. I'm sorry, I can't focus at the moment. We're going behind the scenes with the cast and crew sharing stories from the set, creative insights, and a few surprises from across the galaxy. I think he's earned a little snack. Watch and listen to Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu official podcast, now streaming on Disney Plus or wherever you get your podcasts. And catch Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu, now streaming on Disney Plus. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by ADT. One second, you're enjoying your day off.

22:24Andy Greenwald:The next, your phone buzzes. A window's been broken at home. You're miles away. In one second, everything can change. That's why ADT security systems can monitor your home 24-7. They're backed by the most company-operated monitoring centers in the industry, so you're always supported during an emergency. When every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by the ActiveCash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases.

23:06Say it with me. The Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a two percenter. Learn more at wellsfargo.com forward slash active cash. Terms apply. Another thing I wanted to mention was that there was, and this is also kind of in Netflix news, interesting to see a couple of trickles of information about like netflix projects that like cross our interest level you know like uh dungeons and dragons being one of them east of eden got its full trailer there had been a teaser yeah this is zoe kazan's adaptation of john steinbeck's celebrated american literary masterpiece which i read i think two years ago i think kaya's reading it now did you yeah i mean it's been a hot book 90 i think that was a 94 for me.

23:49Nice one.

23:50Andy Greenwald:You know? Yeah. Did you feel like you really got the biblical allegories in that? I just threw on Beck's Mellow Gold or whatever. Tucked myself up in my Urban Outfitters flannel. Can you read and listen to music at the same time? Not with lyrics. No. Instrumental. Yeah, me too. Nice. For just a couple of cool guys in their 40s. No fucking problems going on upstairs. Zoe Kazan's grandfather, Elia Kazan, was the director of, I believe, 1951 adaptation. With James Dean. James Dean and O 'Rock Hudson. This is seven episodes on Netflix dropping 10-1. The cast is Florence Pugh as Kathy who is certainly not the main character of the novel.

24:29Andy Greenwald:You're right. That's the thing. But is the main character of this trailer. And seemingly the series. And seemingly the series. We can get to that in a second. Christopher Abbott and Mike Faced as Adam and Charles Trask. Joseph Zada and Joe Anders who is a Winslet son. Yep. As Cal and Aaron Trask. He was just in Cape Fear. Yeah, and Cal and Aaron Trask, I would say, make up a large portion of the novel, right? Almost a biblical portion, if you will. Yeah. C and A, the sons. This also stars Martha Plimpton, Kieran Hines, Hoonley, and... Say it. Say the name. I haven't seen any of his stuff. Tracy Letts?

25:06With the two Ts, is it pronounced differently?

25:09Andy Greenwald:Tracy is an actor. Yes. Yeah. He seems like a promising upstart. Yeah. I look forward to seeing his work. I have high hopes for him. He's in this. And I thought this looked very good. Beautiful. And certain shots reminded me of my beloved Joe Wright adaptation of Anna Karenina. Do you love that adaptation? I think it's just very brave. Yeah. I think it's a really cool Tom Stoppard script. And I think like the staging of it is really cool. The Joe Wright. and I also will admit if I tell stories about my line drives when I was 12 I have to balance it out karmically by saying it did not finish Anna Karenina I quit midway through my daughter just read it the real one not the abridged graphic novel version Anna Kay she read the book how does that happen is that kind of like how a kid can learn French really young but like adults find it harder.

26:14Andy Greenwald:And she doesn't have Instagram reels. I don't have Instagram. It's not like that. It's not like that. I'm just saying she doesn't have the distractions. She watches like 19 seasons of Outer Banks in a day. The brain at that age. I was going to say, but she hasn't watched the movie, but the Joe Wright. She just read Anna Karenina. She was like, all this wheat shucking is cool. Like I'm down with this. I made that joke early because I read it 25 years ago and that's the only joke I remember to make. Guy Levin loves farming. she's like dad that's hilarious then i'm like page 200 i'm like levin still farming what's up with all this wheat am i right man i feel completely like emasculated knowing that your your daughter was able to do something that my brain couldn't i i know that i could have done it i could have done it but this is the problem is you have so much choice in this world and you're like what if i just read another book about a guy who finds a bag of cocaine she was reading that when I was reading Jordan Harper's Violent Masterpiece and I was like what's going on she's like well Levin's threshing and I was like nice she's like what's going on in your book and I'm like a man named the I forget it's like the Night Thresher is doing to the young women of Los Angeles what you know what Levin does to his stocks and she's like why do you read that and I was like that's right puts the cover of the Snoop Dogg record, you know, why must I be like that?

27:38Andy Greenwald:That's, then I tried to tell her about that and then she was like, go to bed, grandpa. I just was trying to say that Joe Wright directed her favorite film, Pride and Prejudice. Good 2005. Yes, I like Joe Wright. He's a talented guy. He does, the agency, come on, look at us. Yeah. Can I do one East of Eden thing just to circle back to it? Please. I think it looks great. I cannot wait to see this. And the note is still the note we had before, which is how interesting it seems to be reframed to make Florence Pugh the main character. But there was, But the world we live in now and the way trailers are cut, there was a part of me when I was watching it that was just like, Black Widow, Professor X, in a story brought to you by the dangerous mind behind Grapes of Wrath.

28:15Enzo Ferrari.

28:18Andy Greenwald:you could watch the trailer the trailer communicates what a trailer should which is some sort of sweeping emotion but I don't know sincerely and I don't know if this matters if the Joe Popcorn casual fan who didn't read the book 30 years ago or three months ago I don't know if they're going to walk away being like I see what that's about does that matter? I don't know well I am just looking forward to this because I am not very precious about adaptations specifically like I mean I guess I would be if like you know the Coen brothers had made No Country for Old Men into like a rip-roaring comedy but like for the most part I think when you make an adaptation you should have the freedom to investigate I think it's exciting different kinds of perspectives and you should you should feel free to screw with it a little bit and based on this trailer it looks like Zoe Kazan's way in on this is to interrogate a very complicated figure and Kathy.

29:13I look forward very much for Florence P to play this part.

29:16Andy Greenwald:I think that's great. Genuinely, like, it's a conversation about any adaptation of a beloved or highly respected book. It's like, where do you set the floor and where do you set the ceiling? Because if you get something that looks beautiful and you invest a lot in the production design and you have good actors and you have a book that is prestigious for a purpose, it's going to be a B minus. Yeah. Like, the floor is going to be high, but honestly, why do it? Why spend all of your time doing it if you were just trying to reflect the light of the book. If you have the opportunity, you should try to do something with it.

29:48Andy Greenwald:Use it to tell a different story. And it seems like she did here. Since we're on the topic of Netflix, do you want to talk about The Gentleman first and then we'll do Lantern second? Yeah, all right. This is a show, when it premiered two years ago, it's Guy Ritchie reimagining his feature with Matthew McConaughey. With this one, the show version stars Theo James as a off-brand British royal. He's a duke. A duke. But he previously was a army captain, peacekeeping officer. Right. I remember those flashbacks. Not flashbacks. That's how it starts, remember? Oh, that's right. And then he gets helicoptered out of doing good to go do bad.

30:25And Kai Scotellario plays the heir to a criminal empire in England. Her father is played by Ray Winstone. It's like a really good... really entertaining, perhaps over a long crime show with a lot of humor.

30:43Andy Greenwald:And a lot of great performances by some of the all-stars. Daniel Ings is in this as a coked out rich guy and he's incredible in it. He plays Theo James' older brother and people who'd watched The Gentleman were then happy to see him in Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Pretty much playing the same character. Please let him play this character. Lionel Baratheon and his character in The Gentleman is very similar. I'd like to see him play this character in more shows. Yes. It would lighten the mood. Let's start with an admission. I am a connoisseur of late period Guy Ritchie. It's one of the stranger careers that I think of any filmmaker from my, like, essentially my generation.

31:19You know? Obviously, he started out his career making these incredibly stylish, incredibly hip extensions of rural Britannia, like Brit pop culture with Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch. then became something of like a steady Hollywood hand where he's making Sherlock Holmes movies, Aladdin. Aladdin live action. And has now turned himself into a multifaceted corporation. Yes. Describe the brand. It's essentially a lifestyle brand. It is. That is a mixture of high and low, like high end British luxury.

32:00Andy Greenwald:Traditionalist kind of posh. and Burberry hunting pheasants. And hunting peasants, maybe. I don't know. Pheasants and peasants. The guns go off either way. Whichever one comes out of the marshes. He has a great pub in Fitzrovia, Laura the Land. Yes, and I believe has a whiskey line and a cigar line and all this stuff. And while this is happening, makes one to two genre crime movies a year, including some good. like Wrath of Man from a bunch of years ago during COVID which he apparently directed from a van looking at an iPad because of COVID because he was busy there's just like a lot of really weird John Frankenheimer-y movies that don't really typically get made anymore and many of them are not very successful yet he continues to get tons of work The Gentleman is this sort of not only an extension of his movie but I would say is a platform for his interests in the world.

33:03Andy Greenwald:Which is very Sheridan-esque, I think. Yeah, and also, but like, for instance, like, is not dissimilar from what Koppelman and Levine did with Billions after a while, where they would be like, this is a band that we like, this is a, you know, this subplot about a racehorse lets us get into like gambling on horses or whatever. And I just always like kind of admire when a creator is like, I have an idea for a show, but really what I want to do is have a bucket that I put all the things I'm interested in in that bucket. You could also just have a podcast. Sure, yeah. But then you wouldn't get to hang out out on the British countryside with Rolls Royces.

33:38You're screwed up. So the second season arrives and I have a couple of things to say about the execution of it. But I'll just say, I found it plenty entertaining. The first episode is weirdly an hour and five minutes long. It's so long. And then I started watching the second episode and I was like, oh, I see. this is how they're going to do it. Giancarlo Esposito, who is in the first season for a while, as a rival to, who wants to buy Theo James' house, reappears, and there's some discussion about orbs and scepters. Anyway, I just wanted to see where your head was at with this, because I have something I want to discuss specifically about Richie's writing style and the Netflix house style.

34:22But please let me know how you're feeling about it.

34:24Andy Greenwald:The show seemed to be, to my mind, it seemed slightly different from season one to season two. The things I liked about season one remain. I like how it's, you know when it says like mature audiences, violence, whatever. I think it should also just say cheekiness or cheek because nothing is really that serious. And I kind of, that helps with some of the extremity of it for me that everyone is having a good time playing a larger-than-life version of someone in a larger-than-life circumstance set quite beautifully in larger-than-life surroundings. And some of the little filigrees in the filmmaking were fun, too, in the sense that when a character is talking about money or talking about a plan or is introduced, that information is written on the screen.

35:15Andy Greenwald:So it just has its own kind of house style that I appreciate. And when you have good-looking cast and good costumes, it's a good time. Yeah. I thought this second season began with a director who clearly just wanted to spread out on his lawn for a while. Like, this felt more like Guy Ritchie wanting to kind of make a movie with these people. And it really, really hangs out. And with a little bit more, I don't want to say self-seriousness, but like, there's a lot more. There's just a lot more for a show that was already pretty jam-packed. So I didn't love it as much. But that said, there are worse ways to spend your time.

35:58There are delightful new additions

36:01Andy Greenwald:like Hugh Bonneville, who has just entered a really fun post-Downton era of his career. Playing shit words on prestige TV shows. Truly. Like from the agency to this, he's just like, you can tell that he's relaxing and he can just be an actor again in a really fun way.

36:20And yeah,

36:21Andy Greenwald:I mean, my favorite thing about it is Vinnie Jones, who is a reliable, richy, tough guy. Yes, and plays basically like the butler or the like, not the butler, but like the sort of - He's the gameskeeper who has some secrets and it sort of becomes the consigliere. And like, it's one of those performances that Tarantino would do this, where he'd like take someone who is known for being limited and gives them a chance to show a little bit of wit, a little bit of soul, a little bit of personality. whether it was like Lawrence Tierney in Reservoir Dogs or Robert Forster being another big example of it.

36:58Andy Greenwald:So his kind of just sly presence and charisma does a lot of the load lifting for me, even though Freddie Fox doesn't seem to be in the season so far. I can see why people want to be on the show. Yeah. You get to say really, really, really rich dialogue while wearing outrageously nice clothes in really nice locations. It's beautiful. I don't know if they shot in Lake Como, but it sure looks like it. I mean, the thing about the episode is that you're like, oh, this is going to be a pheasant, a bird hunt episode, which is a fun thing to do. Like, industry does it. Downton Abbey certainly did it. And then you realize that there's still 37 minutes left.

37:34Andy Greenwald:And there's then going to be a Botticelli art auction and a motorcycle chase and then a lot of Lake Como stuff. Yep. And a tiger. And a tiger. Yeah. And as someone who put a tiger on TV once before, welcome, brother. Well, that looked incredibly digitized. I used a real tiger. I know. I know. Thank you. Well, I was just thinking about like, would you now, if you were making Briar Patch in 2026, would you digitize your animals like Ridley Scott? I would do everything else like Ridley Scott, but not that. You would shoot with 10 cameras and make four movies while you were supposed to be making the other?

38:07It would help. It would have helped. In the second episode, you know, there's this sort of fun opening with John Carl Esposito and Theo James talking about the Magna Carta. and I think a plan to make Theo James king, which is funny. But then basically like Theo James does the Ozark thing where somebody goes somewhere extraordinarily far away to have a two minute conversation that they could have had on text message. So he goes back to Italy, goes back to the mob boss and is like, here's what we're going to do. We're going to kill the bill that's going through parliament to legalize marijuana or no, we're going to make sure the bill goes through, but we're going to jump on the legal marijuana trade before everybody else.

38:52And the mob boss is like, sounds good. I need you to kill a Japanese guy back in London. And I was like, oh, so now we're just going to basically kind of do mission of the week while also adding on a half an episode of the larger weed empire story. And Ray Winstone apparently shooting all of his scenes from a steam bath.

39:14Andy Greenwald:Yeah, that was one of his requests. Ever since Sexy Beast, He's like, I just like to be hot and wet at all times. Yeah, they're topless. By the way, we're also glossing over one thing, which is that like when you have people who just call their own shots, like a Taylor Sheridan or a Guy Ritchie, they are immune from larger TV trends. Like this season does begin with an extreme image of something happening and then does the three weeks earlier, which I think generally has been outlawed for writers and directors who make less than$5 million a year. So, and he makes quite a bit more than that, I would imagine, or at least lives that way.

39:46Yeah, I mean, it's a fine and fun hang.

39:51Andy Greenwald:I wish that it was wittier because the visuals are quite witty. Yes. And I believe there was one line here where Eddie, the Duke, Theo James, is talking to a lovely Italian countess who's visiting him for the weekend and they're talking about her boyfriend who's kind of a dummy. And she says, he bought me a striped lion for my birthday. and he says you mean a tiger and she says whatever but it's shot like that's a joke yes and i was waiting for like the next bit of banter and i rewound it so i was like i bet she said something real clever no she's just letting us know what was going to happen later so since 20 2019 when he did the gentleman then covet happens and he comes out of covet and guy ritchie does wrath of man which i like is a heist thriller with jason statham operation fortune rude gear which ruse Daguerre which is actually not bad it's like a a big spy action movie he's made so many movies he made the covenant or Guy Ritchie's the covenant with Jake Gyllenhaal uh Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare then last year he made Fountain of Youth which was widely panned but was supposed to be kind of like a national treasure Raiders of the Lost Ark straight to Apple I believe straight to Apple in the gray which isn't as bad as people say it is but is not very good uh and then next year he has wife and dog and viva la madness and also is making multiple seasons of uh multiple seasons of of the gentleman and was he involved with mob land no he wasn't he was originally involved when it was going to be like a ray donovan he was supposed to yeah yeah that's right anyway the point is is that in his writing of those movies and he writes a lot of his own stuff Matthew Reed also is a co-creative conspirator on this show.

41:37He has a very flat affect. His actors are like obviously instructed to have a relatively flat affect while they deliver really dense information and fact-packed dialogue. Right. This suits the Netflix, the supposed Netflix house style of like we have to remind people what they're seeing.

41:55Andy Greenwald:Every few minutes. Kind of well. because on one hand, you can look at your phone while this is on. Yes. Because you can hear them being like, and you said that you were going to do this, but first we have to take a plane over there to do that. We better ask my father if that's okay. Your father is currently serving three to five years for a stint in jail. In a sauna. Yeah. And it's like, no one would actually speak like that, but they kind of do in Guy Ritchie stuff. Yeah. And I don't know whether it's like a chicken and egg of like Guy Ritchie realized like this is where things were going and he needed to have characters talk like that, or this is where we've just sort of arrived.

42:28Andy Greenwald:Yeah, I don't mean to belittle it. I think in the same way that Taylor Sheridan became the furnace of Paramount, you know, now he's left, but Guy Ritchie could be that for Netflix or at least for Netflix UK. It's just well, they're well suited to each other. Like, I don't think he's the kind of filmmaker who you have to say, hey, could you re-explain the plot here or could you make it propulsive or could you end in a place where people want to keep clicking? I mean, that is what he does naturally. And I am not proud to say this, but you're exactly, you're absolutely right that in season one and season two, this is a show that one's attention could wander.

43:02Yeah, yes.

43:03Andy Greenwald:And still be okay with it. Yes, and when Daniel Angs is on screen, I'm like, I'm seated. Yes. When other things are happening, I'm kind of like, I'm sure we're going to recap this at some point. But there's also the same, the kind of thing that I think is an executive wet dream of every frame. There's a lot to look at or not look at. There, you could be watching it as a real estate person. You could be watching it for the wardrobe. You could be watching it, trying to shop that look. you could be watching because you like that actor or that person, or there's a beautiful woman. There's always something to kind of tickle somebody's fancy in every frame, and that's fine.

43:35Andy Greenwald:I mean, there are so many shows that are not entertaining, so I give this one a gentleman's whatever. Last thing I'll say about this is the runtimes are relatively extensive, especially that first episode. And I really would love to address this with someone somewhere who makes these decisions as to whether or not this is Statler and Waldorf yelling from the balcony like, they used to make 42 minute episode, 42 minute long episodes and they were great versus like this extra 25 minutes that gets tacked on to say an episode of Fallout or Gentleman or whatever it is. And I just don't find it fun.

44:13Andy Greenwald:I'll tell you from inside the Matrix, there is an absolute mandate coming down from executives, from streamers, from networks to bring down run times. Because I always imagined that the idea here is that if you have a plus 25 minute run time for eight episodes of a season that will net out to three more hours of watch time at the end of a season for people. And if they're like, hey, they're going to watch it anyway, like we might as well rack up the stats here. If you think about it that way, in terms of minutes watched, that does make sense. But the other thing about it is, this goes back to a conversation we've been having for years, but I think we specifically touched on it recently, which is choose the right number of episodes or budget for the right number of episodes.

44:58Andy Greenwald:And when you get far down the road and you realize you have too much story for the eight episodes and things start to bulge. and particularly when you have these projects that at a certain point reach their own kind of velocity where like you've committed this much money and you've held the actors and you have the stages built and you have the VFX houses reserved and it's people in Fallout, wow, it was a hit, so we have to make season two. It's very hard to pull back at that point. I mean, I'm sure that the Nolan, Jonah Nolan and Lisa Joy, like I'm sure they would argue my point that they've never been asked to pull back.

45:30Andy Greenwald:I'm sure it's always a push and pull. But I just feel like those types of shows that become their own inevitability, those are the ones that tend to swell the most. And the other times these things swell is when it's Guy Ritchie with Final Cut or Guy Ritchie running the entire means of production or Taylor Sheridan, where it's just like, you want to go tell him? Like, that doesn't really happen. But I have seen firsthand, like, really, really attempted to have teeth, the mandate that like, no, no, we're going to start this early. The scripts have to be shorter. Yeah, they have to be like 47 pages or whatever.

46:04The scripts have to be,

46:05Andy Greenwald:the number four has to be on the script for us to want to do it. But then things happen and then things get moved around or set pieces take longer. Or maybe you get a big actor who's like, I want to X amount more scenes. You know what I mean? It could be any number of things. Or maybe another actor is like, I actually am not here this much this season. You're going to have to fill out the parts that I can't do. Which is why Daniel Lange maybe is not in the season premiere, which is a bummer. I guess the reason I'm harping on it is because I want to make the distinction that for a time with the rise of streaming, it was definitely like when the CD came out and suddenly records didn't albums didn't have to be, you know, 60 minutes spread across two sides or whatever the specific limitations were on LPs.

46:50Andy Greenwald:and that's when actually the real bump was when it went to like the double album and stuff but like with CDs you could just keep cramming tracks on there and people thought that it was an invitation if the space is there might as well use it which is how we ended up with that era where like Tina Fey and Robert Carlock went from a difficult but super tight 21 minutes of 30 rock to Kimmy Schmidt episodes going 24, 26, 28, 31 and I'm not going to complain about more Fey and Carlock but comedy hits different when it's longer. Guy Ritchie did direct two episodes of Mobland, so busy guy. I don't think he did.

47:27He did. I know, but what if... We just kept this going. We stopped doing the watch.

47:34Andy Greenwald:No, but you started by saying you're okay with the aggregation of false facts, so what if we just drop one in here? Sometimes it serves the first part of this pod, is to just sort of riff off of bullshit. And then the new SD Kid record drops and just my voice saying, no, he didn't. The track's called Guy Ritchie. Yeah. Please. Please give me that. Let's talk about Lanterns. So obviously this, to the extent that there is a breakout show right now, I think it's Lanterns, to the extent that there is an episode that it felt like everybody was talking about. It was definitely episode three, Outcast, written by Vanessa Bay and Kelly.

48:15It reminded me of like the way Lost used to do things where they would take a character and really dig into their background, but also through doing that, illuminate the behavior of other characters on the show. First of all, I thought this was an obviously excellent episode of television, gripping. I think this stuff that I bumped against had more to do with the visual kind of language of the show or maybe the appearance of the show where there is a kind of genericness to maybe like Jon Stewart's childhood home or the Outback Steakhouse they go to. It doesn't have maybe the really weathered, lived-in feeling that some of my favorite TV shows have.

49:10That being said, this is an exceptional, exceptional episode of television. that was just like I'm not even being like I'm not even trying to give it to merits no no I think it was almost that when something is this good yeah I almost noticed like that's just I'm curious about that you know what I mean

49:28Andy Greenwald:well I'm curious about that I mean you could point to a couple things you could speculate about budgetary reasons with a VFX heavy show or at least a show that inevitably will get more VFX heavy you could you could point out that James Hawes directed the pilot in the second episode in a block and Stephen Williams who has accomplished and excellent TV director came on. And sometimes visual continuity can get disrupted from that. I thought it looked fairly similar, yeah. I think the other thing that I'd be curious about is one of the things that was cool, I think, about the production for the show, they did get like a California tax credit, which is very hard to get these days.

50:02Andy Greenwald:And so where's the town that they keep going to? Nebraska. Nebraska, Rushville. They shot the show in Piru, which is like in Ventura County. Yeah. And so they were trying to double Nebraska Nebraska but also wherever John Stewart's family is and also wherever he was and also you know what I mean so they were trying to anyway it's also a comic book adaptation it doesn't need to be like a one to one like sort of relationship I think it's an interesting question I also think it's worth noting that in the same way that Burn Notice on USA was a show about sunglasses Lanterns has really really revealed itself to be a show about jackets yes I mean a long line of HBO shows that have been about jackets yes it's just remarkable First that we had Last of Us and now we have Kyle Chandler's sort of cinched.

50:47Andy Greenwald:Yeah, but every week Jon Stewart has a sick new fit that must be moisture wicking because that dude does not shower a lot and runs more. Yeah. So, yeah. Can I... A little behind the curtain here. I've been, you know, I've been quite busy and my sleep's been a little touch and go recently. But I woke up thinking about this episode I think yesterday. Okay. And I wrote a note about like, I was like, oh, I think I cracked it. You never have one of those? Or like, I really have a take. Yeah. And I wrote down and I was like, at least I got that done today before I went on to do all the other stuff I had to do.

51:24Andy Greenwald:And earlier this morning, I looked at what I'd written and I wrote TV in translation, question mark. Do you know what that means? I don't fully, but I'm going to try. This is good. I think what I meant was that there is something that like, if you read literature in translation and you can love a book and you can love an author, right? Okay, so like you're reading... Savage Detectives. For as, yeah, okay. Natasha Wimmer is like, celebrate, I did not mean to go down this tangent, but maybe I did, is celebrated for her understanding of Bolaño's intent and context and everything in Spanish. But really...

51:59Can't wait to hear this get sampled.

52:02Andy Greenwald:On a Putamayo collection. Somewhere they sell it. But the point is, if you love Haruki Murakami, which I do, people often say, you've never actually read him. Sure. You are reading Jay Rubin or Natasha Wimmer. You're reading the translator. I think what I meant when I, and I didn't mean it pejoratively, but watching this episode, there are things in this episode that are so keenly, to me, comic book stories. Like the way that the show, in a period of literally almost panels, like one, you could call them scenes, moments, but in a comic book, it would be a series of panels, tells a very, very, very dense backstory with some degree of almost theatricality.

52:44Andy Greenwald:Like the moments between John and his mother throughout time, you know, I mean, this is all TV and movies do this because of compression, but like the scenes where they talk to each other are so weighty and it's almost as if no time passed. Like only four things have ever happened to these people and all of them are about whether she can communicate with blue space gods or not. You know what I mean? Like the turn of that episode from his father being the domineering and not just afraid. Yeah. Well, the perception of the father, but also the arc of the father and the arc of the mother and what we knew before.

53:18Andy Greenwald:I mean, the efficiency of it is remarkable, but it also sometimes felt stilted to me like expositional because it felt like I was reading a cool comic book and not necessarily watching a TV show because it had to get to this, get this work done. So you think about that, and I don't want to ascribe motive. I think all these people work together. But again, I look at the credits and I'm like, this is what Tom King does. There were just moments in this episode where it looked like, to me, like Tom King was one of the creators, like Human Target comics, where the artist is Greg Smallwood and like the way that he captures framed images that almost look like they're stills of photographs.

53:56Andy Greenwald:It's like, that's what it felt like, that type of storytelling. But it wasn't, it's a TV show. Similarly, there were things that I think were so elegantly translated for the medium. Whereas if it was a comic book, when The Guardian comes to apologize, in a comic book, that would happen in a fucking upside down pocket dimension and a blue god would be there the whole time because that's why you write comic books. Because there's no budget, there's no makeup, you know, you just can draw whatever you want and you can make it surreal. This is where the TV stuff comes in and I'm sure Tom King agreed with it, but you think about Mundi or you think about Damon and you're like, well, we don't, not only we could, we could go ask Casey, like, had in hands, like, can we have enough money to make a blue space god in this episode?

54:37Andy Greenwald:Or you could be like, what's more interesting than that? And it's Laura Linney. And that is such a hugely successful decision that makes the episode feel completely different. And it's quirky and it's surprising and it's awesome. And that works for TV. So I guess what I'm trying to say was, I was like, I was feeling the pulse of some original, of a different language in this episode. And sometimes it worked for me. all the Laura Linney scenes sometimes it didn't when it's like again a few a few frames of Jon Stewart being on a stakeout for nine months in the bushes like that's wild that tells me something about a comic book character but it's so outrageous that this boy is just a vessel to become what he becomes that I lose some of the humanity in him well let me ask you another it's a kind of a nuts and bolts question then when it comes to writing I think I would describe this to Damon but just because of my experience with his work a deeply deeply empathic humane writer but also a bit of a trickster and a little bit like of a magician when it comes to you're watching something you think you know what you're watching and then it turns out you have to reconsider everything you've watched because in fact this person was always this you've been watching something else the whole time John Locke was in a wheelchair.

55:59You know what I mean? Now think about that when you're watching everything else. And after three episodes, this episode makes you look at Hal's antagonism towards John differently. It makes you look at John's relationship to his family differently. It makes you look specifically at his relationship to his mother and his father differently. It makes you ask questions about his relationship to his brothers. it makes you ask questions about the certainty of who is doing the front office work for the lanterns because there's been a lot of speculation like is you know was that Laura Linney character a guardian?

56:43Andy Greenwald:People are speculating that she wasn't? That she was a manhunter. What? Who speculated that? There was just speculation online about that. What? show me the websites happily iraqgoals.net my point is that how sustainable is that for a storytelling mechanism where you're like we're constantly going to be wrong footing or asking you to go back 15 minutes to now think about this differently because I think it's an excellent way to apply Damon's genius to a story that I think we're probably like, we know superheroes, man, we got it. We've done this a couple of times. And he did it so well in Watchmen.

57:26He does it so well in so many different spaces. But I was wondering if we're at episode five and it's like, actually, it's not that. Now, of course, all mystery shows are essentially giving you red herrings until you finally zero in on the real person. It's probably one of the reasons why Furious was so refreshing is that there is no mystery to Furious, really. It's just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

57:51Andy Greenwald:Do you see what I'm asking? Yeah, I think in this case, I mean, broadly speaking, I think that Damon, who is, you know, who is our friend and who we admired first and who we have criticized openly as well on print and in print and on this podcast. I mean, I think that he hears the music of weekly television in a way that almost no one ever has. And in the same way that people who are just like piano progeny, prodigies can almost like hold space in their mind, not just for the note they're playing, but for all of the different chords. And then eventually like an entire orchestra, the parts that seems to be, and I've worked with him.

58:33Andy Greenwald:I seen it happen. Like he, he, he, he like conducts an orchestra basically of, and I know he's just gone from piano to conducting, but bear with me. I haven't seen Tara in a while. Everyone in the room is offering ideas. And what's incredible about what he does is he seems to process them like little different melodic moments. And he takes them and he keeps taking and taking and then he's sort of story weaving in real time and fitting them together. And so that's an incredible thing to see and I do feel like you can see that happening and I don't say that to diminish the contributions of all the other writers including Vanessa Baden-Kelly who wrote the episode.

59:07Andy Greenwald:The other reason why I think that's a brilliant skill set is because the episode and the weekly episode drop of a series has been so devalued. with the binge model, which we've talked about, maybe we're retreating from slightly. But one of the great joys of the model is this idea of every moment, like the wire, like every piece matters. Every moment matters. There isn't a wasted scene because the scenes exist not just as a propulsive mechanism to go forward, but as a moment that will tie back to the past, that will connect forward to the future. And then when you have a show with a trickstery timeline set up, that goes double.

59:41Andy Greenwald:Yeah. So, but I also hear you in the sense that like... No, that wasn't like a critique. It was a, it was a, basically a concern troll about the sustainability of like, Lost was able to sustain that for a long time where you thought you knew the island. There was another part of it. You thought you knew what time you were in. There was another era. You thought you knew what Saeed or Locke or Jack's story was. You find out something else about it. It's baked into what you would expect every time you started a new episode. We very well may get a Laura Linney episode or, you know, something that's a little bit more Hal Jordan-centric.

1:00:17But I was...

1:00:17Andy Greenwald:It feels comic book-y to me in the best way in the sense that there's everything has a secret identity, that there's a second layer to everything. And it's, instead of showing us something and then filling us in on lore only, it's filling us in on emotional connection and on actual, like, lit-lived, they're fictional characters. But, like, the data dump of the show, whether it's hidden in, you know, beautiful artifice or not, isn't really that much about what the Green Lantern Corps do in outer sectors of the Sagittarius quadrant or whatever. It's about what John has done or what John and Hal have done.

1:00:54Andy Greenwald:Yeah. And I think that makes it more present and more interesting. But it is a comic book style of storytelling. The other thing that I think is very on brand for Damon, whether it was in the room and whether he was the only one pushing it or not, is that I really like his tendency always in writing is never to write around a problem. And not even a problem, write around a... Obstacle? I don't want to use a negative word. It's like write around something that you've been given. And so in this case specifically, what I mean is this show was conceived as a two-hander between two Green Lanterns, or one ascending and one descending.

1:01:31Andy Greenwald:And intentionally, canonically, Hal Jordan is a white guy and Jon Stewart is a black guy. And they ran right at that in this episode in ways that at times felt almost didactic compared to some of the storytelling in other scenes, but at other times felt really exciting. Very much so, yeah. You know, in terms of like the whole thing about even in space we aren't seen, and sometimes you have to raise your own hand, and adding context to this character that, it's almost like having seen Rebel Ridge, I'm like, Aaron Pierre just basically plays a sledgehammer in anything he does, and he's awesome at it.

1:02:04Andy Greenwald:But this is, it builds that character. This episode builds that character. It's like, here's like this kid who's been basically conditioned since he was a baby to not feel a huge swath of human emotion or to suppress it. And so what does that do to you? How do you then relate to other people? You know, and what happens when you have this other great passion of yours in art and in drawing? And that winds up being the actual thing that sort of is your entree into this whole other life. And like, you know, the show is doing so many things. We talked about that a lot in the pilot. but one of the things that it's doing whether i don't think this was like the they're they're they're guiding light but by running right at ideas of america of particularly of race of um of culture yeah like the whole wrapping in the back seat of the car thing but even of humor like being silly and like undercutting things like every frame every every decision is like a broadside against the idea that comic book storytelling can't do any of that.

1:03:06Yeah.

1:03:06Andy Greenwald:It's like, it's quite a burden for one show to bear. I don't think that's what they were trying to do necessarily. And sometimes I think they overdo it. Like, I do think I'm no prude, but they curse a lot. Like, they don't need to curse that much. Like, if you ran a mic on us, like, on the way back from a Sixers game, maybe it'll be different this year. I think it would be different for me, yeah. But, uh... Can you fucking believe LeBron James did that? That's been you all summer. Yeah. But it's a really exciting show. And like just those little surprises that like it's a job. It felt very leftovers to me, the entire mall interview with Laura Linney.

1:03:42Funnily enough, I thought that reminded me of The Prisoner. The show that we talked about a couple weeks ago, the 60s show that's on Criterion channel now. I thought that was reminiscent of this reality of it was very reminiscent of that.

1:03:53Andy Greenwald:It reminded me of International Assassin, the leftovers episode. Yes. I guess we, I guess we aren't the same after all. We can both be right. Yeah. what else do you want to talk to me about can you can you tell me right whether or not I am supposed to be as a casual like what do I need to know about like the Guardians stuff like is or is that just like gonna become dude I don't know okay I mean I generally because I'm not I know I can dig deep when we're talking Marvel but I don't really know the story of this I'm actually really appreciating the kind of Cliff's Notes version of it that like, because there's, continuity is so messy and James Gunn's whole thing has always been the more modern version of it, the Grant Morrison version of it, which is, all that crazy shit happened.

1:04:40Andy Greenwald:So like when Grant Morrison wrote Batman, it was like, grim and gritty Batman, but also Batmite, like, it's kind of the spider ham of the Batman universe, was also real and the Adam West vibes were also real and you had to reconcile all that. So, even in this Green Lantern, even in Lanterns, like, this is a world where there's this whole iconography that there's one, but we already have seen Superman and we know that Nathan Fillion is also one. Sure. And he's showing up in the show. So all that to say, I appreciate that they're like, yeah, I heard that there's 12 of you and you're born, you know, we've now learned you are born and die alone and you are the guiding, I mean, I wrote down the line, we are the guiding whatever of law and order in the universe and one of you died.

1:05:20Andy Greenwald:And it's like, okay. Yeah. Or when his mom's like, prove it to me that you're blue. Okay. I feel like Diamond was that's challenging you know I learned from the agency season 2 that moving Diamond it is although I assume I think the inference is that they eventually do move it thus funding their lives of training him of getting a satellite and yeah who would you rather have shoot an apple off your head mom or dad neither not with you on that brother you know what I mean for different reasons we're not Bill telling it over there I hit line drives we're not we're not messing around Before we get out of here, let's do a couple of recommendations.

1:05:58I want to keep doing these on Thursdays especially. Andy has a book rec and then I have a book and a record.

1:06:03Andy Greenwald:There's a book that came out two weeks ago called Days of Miracle and Wonder by Ashley Kahn. It's Paul Simon and the Trials and Triumphs of Graceland, an album that just celebrated its 40th anniversary. And I'm not a big music bio guy, nor am I necessarily a big nonfiction guy, but maybe the timing was right because I just crushed it over the weekend when I was doing some traveling. And it's just a really wonderful, easy, in the best possible way, read. It has incredible anecdotes about the 1980s, about music, about Paul Simon's experience making Graceland, traveling to South Africa, working with these beautiful musicians, and then also the pushback and the uproar about cultural bands.

1:06:49Andy Greenwald:And that part in particular felt very relevant only because, like, one remembers that there has been liberal purity tests at every point in history. We don't need the internet just to amplify it. But more importantly, like, what I found really moving about it was, because it's very contained. It's not like in 1962 when Paul and Artie first started. It's like starts with him. It starts with him getting the tape that, you know, famously, he got a tape of, I think it was eventually realized it was the group called the Boyoyo Boys. but he was just walking around or he was driving to Montauk where he was building a house for his then wife Carrie Fisher which is just like strap me in but so it stays it stays very very focused but what's incredible to read about it and I'm sure there are many talented musicians and songwriters who still do this but the way that he built this album is felt very very very grandiose in the best way and artistic and bespoke and like he was like I'm gonna go to South Africa where the music is and we're gonna book some studios and these people I've never met before are going to come in and we're going to see what we come up with.

1:07:52Andy Greenwald:Right. And, uh, I know that like one of the major differences between then and now, and he was, there's a lot of this in there as well. Like he paid, you know, triple rate for all the musicians and he gave credit and people got royalties and he brought them on tour into the musicians largely felt very well taken care of and their contributions were appreciated and blah, blah, blah. But you do realize that one of the main differences between analog and digital era is that I'm sure you've heard this as well, that like when contemporary artists have collaboration sessions or jam sessions, the tape runs from morning to night.

1:08:23Andy Greenwald:Sure. So that at any point, if things get legal, you know, like, like if Frankie Pulitzer was like, I think Chris said that. Yeah. They would go to the tape and that wasn't the case in the eighties. And I think there was some grumbling, I mean, famously more than grumbling from Los Lobos. Yeah. I think the grumble was quite, quite particulate. But interestingly, like this book talks about it was a tough studio day because Los Lobos didn't really understand and they were kind of insulted that they weren't brought in to do what they do. They were brought in to just kind of jam. Play, yeah. And come up with something.

1:08:58Andy Greenwald:And despite the tension of that day, the members came back multiple times to do overdubs and like were part of the process, but then later felt sort of ill-used by it. Gotcha. I know you had a Los Lobos question. I could see it. Well. It's a very important album to me and probably a bunch of other people who are our age. Funnily enough, Graceland has been one of the most played albums in my life, but not by me, but various people in my lives are like, we're going to listen to Graceland on this road trip or we're going to listen to Graceland while we make Thanksgiving dinner or whatever it is. For years and years and years.

1:09:34Andy Greenwald:I feel like the most like Proustian, like Citizen Kane, like, oh my God, like sound of my life is the horns on Graceland and the horns on Billy Joel's and Innocent Man. Like instantly, it's between the years of 1983 and 1986. And I'm like, whoa. Mom. Can I have mac and cheese tonight? Yeah. I'll throw out a book rack really quick. I was reading this book, Life During Wartime, by Lucius Shepard. I'm really enjoying it. It's like a kind of psychedelic sci-fi novel set in a imaginary conflict in Guatemala. Did you mention this? I did. And I left it on a plane. No! What? So I am, while I wait for my replacement copy to arrive.

1:10:19From Spirit Airlines? Are they sending it back to you? It wasn't Spirit. Okay. I just figured let's give them a little shine. I'm getting Frankie Pulitzer money now. We're on Alaska, brother.

1:10:31I'm reading this amazing novel by a writer named Rudolf Wurlitzer. He's the screenwriter who wrote Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, Tulane Blacktop, and an acclaimed novelist as well. This came out in 2011. I think Drag City, the music label, put out the novel. And it's based, it's called Slow Fade. And it is essentially a book about a Sam Peckinpah-esque director making a Western. His failed son, who has returned from a long trip to Asia, where he was there with his wife, but also was looking for his disappeared sister. And it also is about a, basically like a rock and roll road dog who like road manages bands, who has lost an eye and is now living with the son writing a screenplay.

1:11:29And it kind of feels like a little bit of that vibe where you're like, is this like, this is kind of like a Steely Dan album. as a novel, and it's awesome. That's incredible. I love it. It's a slow fade by Rudolf Orlitzer is my book recommendation. And then my music recommendation I was just going to make really quickly was You Say I Romanticized, the new album by Sweeping Promises. Fucking incredible. It is so good. Just came out on Sub Pop a couple weeks ago. And I like this band. I liked this band before, but this record is amazing.

1:12:02Andy Greenwald:Their first record is Hunger for a Way Out. I loved and then I kind of went away from them and this is like the it's a duo and this one Lira Mandel sings and plays bass and they're like a full band on the record and everything but like it is like in that sort of heritage of wire, stereo lab, electrolyte and elastica breeders like it has like post punk but then there are like flourishes that remind me of like Blondie or even some of like the vocal stuff they do is like I don't know if I would say it's like Queen but it is like incredibly gorgeous melodies layered on top of each other that are just coming from Mandal's voice so highly recommend this record and it's so driving it is like a great running record a great working out record a great driving around record that Hunger for a Way Out there's a song Cross Me Out in there that's like X-Ray Specs meets Blondie and that That was one of, like, if I had my go, we should do this actually.

1:13:05Andy Greenwald:Like, what was the go bag that got you through COVID? Culturally, sourdough bread-wise. Yes. Because there are things, you know. DJ Battles, Modern Family Reruns. Yes. Thomas Mann's The Magic Mountain. That was summer 2020 for me. Yeah. No, but Lonesome Dove was in there for us and reading all those books. But, like, one thing as we get older, as people who are obsessed with culture and books and music and things, I find is that the, like the resonance of the things you love becomes more diffuse. Meaning like, I was just saying about like the horns on Graceland. I am in another body in another life.

1:13:41Andy Greenwald:I mean my own, but like all the cultural touchstones and the smells. And I remember things about like my grandparents' house instantly. Things from 2014, I'm like, this is 2017. Like I love things, but I, you lose. I think we're conversant about a lot more things, but we're not as deeply knowledgeable and like connected to them. And they're not as married to... So like a record that I love, I will love for four days and then never listen to it again. Because it's also not wedded to a particularly intense emotional period because it's just like... Speak for yourself, man. Well, no, but I mean, as my kids pointed out this morning, I can get pretty heated going to Trader Joe's.

1:14:15Andy Greenwald:But other than that, you know, it's not like it was some great swing in your life. Yeah. And COVID was that for everyone. So I do think that there are aspects of that. In the same... I mean, on the same token, by the same token, I also don't remember anything about three years there. Sure. and it was either 10 minutes ago or 10 years ago. But that's a project for us. That would be fun. The COVID diaries? No. Just like remembering some things that mattered. Yeah, for sure. Isn't that what this pod really is? Remembering things that matter? Do you think we should tie more of our content to national tragedies?

1:14:47Andy Greenwald:Like what would you like to do for the 25th anniversary of 9-11? Just do a full listening session for Jay-Z's blueprint? You know, people love it whenever the subject of 9-11 comes up and I say, you know, the weather was... It's a clear blue day. That's how the report opens. That's a what? The 9-11 report. Well, I was, they asked me. It's very well written. The 9-11 report. People don't talk about, does the report contain all the people playing frisbee in Central Park? It doesn't. Was that what you were doing? No, no. I was invited. Okay. No, no, no. But like when we walked up, did the long walk up Manhattan from the spin offices like up across Central Park, like, you know, hundreds, thousands of people were like pilgrimaging just away, there were a not insignificant number of people just like tossing the disc around.

1:15:36Andy Greenwald:Like it's a nice Tuesday. That's the real story. You only get that here. Hang on Frankie Pulitzer mixtapes. We will be back on Monday or Tuesday yet to be decided yet because it is Labor Day. But we will be back on Monday or Tuesday and we'll have two episodes next week for you. Thanks to Kai and Sarah for producing today and we'll be back Monday. everybody have a great weekend. Jon Stewart would do Monday. He believes in the mission.

1:16:11This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods, who has your back-to-school eats sorted. Wow, we're going back to school already. They've got your fast and easy breakfast covered with frozen waffles and pancakes. Lunchboxes are looking tasty with organic seedless grapes and baby carrots and essentials like cheese sticks. Then for dinner, you can build your own meal. Choose from a variety of entrees like chicken scallopini in two sides, and it's all good too. Whole Foods has banned more than 300 food ingredients store-wide. Shop back to school must-haves at Whole Foods Market in-store or online.

1:16:42This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.