‘The Paper’ and More Trailers. Plus, Why You Should Be Watching ‘The Eastern Gate.’

19:35Andy Greenwald:I think it's going to pleasantly surprise people. There you go. Which I don't know. I don't know if that's what the log line of our chat would have been when it was announced. Aside from you guys never, your daughters, they never they never checked out somewhere i turned pretty right um well my older daughter it was a sleep boy camp i feel like that might have feel like i feel like she's aware okay but i'm aware i'm aware let's just put it that way it's it's a big it's a big show in my house do you know the first episode of the third season had 25 million viewers sorry what are we doing do you think that's like more than like the mba finals what do you think the first five minutes of our podcast in which i talked about steven soderbergh's recent output recent through april did like just in terms of like swerving into the zeitgeist well i think if we switched the topics this podcast would be more successful if we like flipped them and it was like it's t-s-i-t-p summer okay all right what do you what do you have to say about this show i get it it's compelling it's compelling stuff i i mean i think that like a lot of younger skewing shows i'll say this my wife loves this show and is is very invested in the central romance or romantic triangle between conrad fisher his brother jerry and this girl belly uh isabella um and these two brothers are kind of vying for her love whoa that's something no wonder we don't understand the show because we're only children this is we got my wife but she's just like i'm in paradise uh you know and i'm uh if it if it needs to be said i'm team conrad i don't think that's much of a competition, but we'll see where Jenny Han takes us over the course of the next couple of months.

21:24We just had a very electrifying Conrad POV episode. So the streets are chatting about that.

21:31Andy Greenwald:Is it fisheye lens, like he's a ghost haunting the other story? So recently, I've been looking... This is a small local newspaper. I've been watching... This is also a sign of my mental decline this summer, I think that I, I now am like fully just shrug emoji and watching a lot of the branded content that I'm being serviced. So like, I definitely have thoughts about Dave Franco and Alison Breeze together marketing campaign. So, but like the fact that like actors have to do such specific hijinks all the time, there's, I have a point to this by the way. Yeah. So for example, there was like a, like a lad Bible or bro Bible or whatever that is thing that like David friends with.

22:15But yeah, I mean, like it's really specific.

22:18Andy Greenwald:It's like Old Testament or New Testament. Whatever. It's the Bible. So it's Karenswit and Nicholas Holt doing their Superman promo tour. And the conceit was they each had to eat beloved snack foods from each other's home country. And I watched like all 11 minutes of it, even though it is just dreadful. What's up with you, man? But when I'm like, do you want to watch X? You're like, oh, who has the time? But this is the X the horror movie or Elon Musk's social media platform? Any DK show, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm busy. I'm busy on bro Bible, dog. I'm reading from the hymnal. But my question was genuinely, do you think us watching young coded content that is actually popular, like Chris and Andy sample Wednesday season two, would that do numbers, Kaya?

23:08Andy Greenwald:or even if it's the equivalent of David Frenzwood being forced to eat a Kraft single of American cheese. And you can see on his face how disordered his eating became to become Superman. Well, this is actually, you bring up a good point. I want Kaya to answer whether or not you and I weighing in more heavily on Summary Term Pretty would change our demo. But when a movie, let's just say like Fantastic Four, doesn't quite live up to financial expectations, right? Like whether you think it flopped or died on the vine or whatever. I mean, it's did very well first weekend and is now kind of a cratering a little bit when that happens.

23:44Do you think Vanessa Kirby and Pedro Pascal are like, I can't believe I had to do the Vanity Fair lie detector test all for nothing? You know, like, yes, I wonder if there will be like a pivot where it's like, you know, everybody has to do hot ones and all these goddamn shows and all these little things. And then when they get through it and their movie doesn't do well, are they like, can I have my life back and not pet puppies while answering like relationship quiz questions?

24:06Andy Greenwald:Yes, except for the fact that Pedro Pascal, Vanessa Kirby, and Evan Moss Bacharach were doing this nonsense while they were furloughed from year three of making another version of the same movie. Yes. Like this was their vacation from being these people that have been roundly accepted by the global movie going public. You know, it's not like, I bet this was a weirder week on set, I guess, in London is what I will say. only because I think that they were probably looking for a little injection what do you mean are they all because they're shooting doomsday now yeah they've just been shooting it I thought you were like they're shooting fantastic for part two now second steps no I wish I loved it going through the list of of uh headlines here for us that I wanted to hit okay uh this is just really um honestly this is for the heads I just need to address this really quickly uh leonardo caprio is apparently the price tag to get heat to made um matt bellany talked about this a little bit in his column um what i'm hearing but man submitted a screenplay reportedly to warner brothers and he's like that that will be 200 michael man by the way michael man um man does not often submit screenplays he likes to he likes to do it like he likes to do a little bit of a draft take a walk you know fix some notes check bro bible for what man should do uh michael man submitted his heat to screenplay to warner brothers and he was like here you go and that's going to be 200 mil to make this um they balked apparently they are trying to get apple involved as a co as a partner on the project and one of the ways in which this can go from a fever dream that me and my collective brethren are having to an actual film is if Leonardo DiCaprio apparently, who has expressed some interest, signs on to be a part of the film and act in it.

26:04I think the chatter seems to be suggesting that he would play young Neil, young Robert De Niro, which is interesting because Leonardo DiCaprio is 50. And when Robert De Niro made Heat, he was 52. So unless Leonardo DiCaprio is making, is doing the John Voight character.

26:25Andy Greenwald:Or doing the Irishman. I don't know. But like, I mean, I suppose you could say like, you could make him look younger. If anybody could look younger, I'm sure it's Leonardo DiCaprio. But it is pretty interesting that this is being at least elevated to like Matt's and Trey's level of discussion. For what it's worth, and it's worth a lot in terms of my own desperate hope and optimism. 50 looks a lot younger than it used to. Oh my God. He doesn't look a day over 42. That's not what my children said when they saw the one battle for another trailer. Really? I brought this up on the pod when you were away, but like the fat, what I, you know, you know how like, it's interesting what you'll let them watch.

27:12Andy Greenwald:They played it before Superman and fantastic four. Yeah. So, there's like varying levels of psychic destruction that one could do to a child if one you know as a parent and i i don't traffic in that sort of thing i don't lean over and say like santa claus isn't real or whatever but leaning over and saying that's jack from titanic had a similar effect like the vehemence with which my daughter said no no it's not jack or no i don't want to see a film based on Tom's Pigeons by Vineland. Okay. No, they wanted Vineland, but they wanted it to be much more book accurate. Yeah, right. More of a sort of text there.

27:52Andy Greenwald:Okay, but as a heat connoisseur, would you accept this tax? Like, do you think it's worth it? Could Leo play that part? Yeah, I mean, they would figure it out. Who would he be taking it? Because we still don't know. There was all the rumors of it's Austin Butler. It's Bernthal. It's Driver. It's Jeremy Allen White. It's Eben Moss Bacharach. It's Jeremy Allen White. It's like the bear cast meets the white noise cast. I don't know. I mean, I think that I will believe that this project happens when they are like, look at this, it's shooting, basically. Like on-set paparazzi photos. Just like the same thing with the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood sequel where I was like, there's no fucking way this is happening.

28:34And they're shooting it for seven months in LA. I can walk over there. Yeah. So I want to believe, but I won't get hurt. I refuse to get hurt by it. I appreciate that. And giving Michael Mann$200 million right now is not a guarantee of return on investment.

28:50Andy Greenwald:I will say that I recently rewatched a film, Miami Vice. I'm not sure if you've ever seen it. And I did Google the cost of go-fast boats. And they are not reasonable. There's no version of it where you can get the more affordable Trader Joe's version of the boat. Wait until Trump's tariffs on fast kick in. Just on going fast at all. anything over 60 bucks can i ask you since big picture is on hiatus can we just burn through like your your your absolute fast uh rorschach test back of the napkin response to the two trailers of movies with full names in the title that dropped this week and jay kelly yes yeah uh first of all congratulations this is a great week for irish people i guess uh elma k is the new film from James L.

29:39Brooks. It's been in production for, it seems like quite a while, and it stars... Now I get confused because her name is... It's Emma Mackey. Emma Mackey, L-M-A-K. Emma Mackey, Jamie Lee Curtis, Woody Harrelson...

29:53Andy Greenwald:Albert Brooks, Iowa Debris. Albert Brooks, yeah, a lot of people. And is about a young woman who I think becomes governor and also works out some family issues that she has. and it's, you know, Brooks is the master at large ensemble dramedies. And so that's what this looks like. I think it's funny to kind of in the same way we're talking about the paper, it's funny to watch a trailer for a James L. Brooks movie. It's like, this is not going to be the Odyssey. It's not going to feel like a major motion picture event. It really doesn't portray whether or not it's going to be a good film or not. He is an aging man, but that doesn't mean that he can't pull this off.

30:33and I think his sensibility and his comic timing and his way with actors hopefully is a timeless skill and a talent. And I remain hopeful for this film even though I think it's Jamie Lee Curtis when she's like, you're 34 years old and you're the governor. I was like, what the fuck is happening?

30:53Andy Greenwald:Do you think it's the Kathy Hochul story? Is that like... No, because Kathy had to wait for decades, man, for her spot. What did you think of Ellen McKay? I mean, I think I'm with you because like when you reach a certain age, aka the age of people who are even interested in - Aka the age of Neil and Heat. Aka the age of Neil and Heat 2, the prequel. A movie that speaks in the James L. Brooks cadence is such a rarity and it is nostalgic. And the real answer I have for you is I wish someone half of James L. Brooks' age had the juice and gravitas to make a movie like this with this cast. Sure. but we don't live in that world.

31:34Andy Greenwald:So I'm happy that he gets a chance to do it again in the spirit of like, you know, I am a fan of great masters just kind of rewriting the same book. Making ladies governor, yeah. Just, you know, and finally just getting woke, you know, in the capital cities of America. That said, this, I mean, like Julie Kavner narrating and then like it's about her mother, but then it's also, it did seem, it did seem a little, little loosey goosey. Yeah. But I like, I like this Emma Mackey. I'm going to let stove God cook here about Jay Kelly. Look, I mean, Noah Baumbach is old enough to play Neil in Heat 2, right?

32:16Andy Greenwald:I think he's actually a little bit on the senior side for that. But this is one of my favorite genres of movie, not just like the Noah Baumbach thinking movie, but the aging star sort of struggles with what was it all for. I love this shit. This looks so good to me. And I especially like my favorite George Clooney performances are when he just plays a, you know, a different shading of his own charismatic self. I think that's his best skill. And he's clearly playing a version of himself here. Like, and we were texting about this. I've never been a big Sandman guy. yeah um i you will not be hearing a review of happy gilmore 2 on this podcast because it should surprise none of the people who wanted to see how i watched monty python then or want to pants me now i never saw happy gilmore 1 and when i found out that it wasn't a prequel you know i didn't know what to do with myself all that said i am a huge late blooming fan of adam sandler the human being as he appears on like the conan o 'brien mark twain thing and he seems like a really nice guy to the people he works with in his family.

33:19Andy Greenwald:And I just feel like Baumbach was like, these are two beloved performers and archetypes. Let's just let him cook with an incredible cast around him. And the great Emily Mortimer co-writing the script, like I'm checking for this movie. I'm very excited about it. Yeah, it looks really good. I think it would have been funny if Charlie Kaufman had made this movie and they just called it George Clooney. Boy, this is why you're the best. Yeah, right. You fixed it. It's obviously like a knowing kind of wink it's cluny's own celebrity um but i think uh i hope this one works out for noah you know what i mean it's been a minute white noise didn't quite click with the with the streets are you worried about how their household finances are doing or are you i think they got that narnia dough you know i feel like narnia is going to be fine for adults with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms every choice matters trimphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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34:49Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios, The Dog Stars, only in theaters and IMAX August 28th. visionary filmmaker Ridley Scott returns with a gripping post-apocalyptic thriller when a mysterious radio transmission shatters a lone pilot's isolated existence. He embarks on a dangerous journey in search of hope, starring Jacob Elordi, Josh Brolin, Margaret Qualley, Allison Janney, and Guy Pearce.

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36:08This episode is brought to you by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a two percenter. Learn more at wellsfargo.com forward slash active cash. Terms apply. Jay Kelly is going to come out on Netflix in the fall, I believe. And it will probably be an awards contender. It brings me to our next subject that I wanted to throw at you, which is Netflix adjacent.

36:47So as I mentioned at the beginning of the pod, Skydance completed its acquisition of Paramount, which just shout out to Daddy Dave. Shout out to his daddy, Larry. Shout out to all the great people at Skydance and how they're working out journalistic ethics these days. I think -

37:02Andy Greenwald:Seems awesome. Seems like it went really smoothly. and they all seem like they're on the up and up. They're going to split the company into three divisions. So we got studios, direct to consumer, which is always my favorite because I am the consumer and they just go direct to me. And TV media and of those divisions, Andy, I actually want to talk about the DTC because the recently released org chart of Paramount Skydance or Paramount comma a Skydance company, you'll see the name Cindy Holland. Now, long-time listeners of the pod may remember us discussing Cindy Holland. I don't think she's ever been on the show, but she's been discussed because she was essentially one of the architects, if not the architect of Netflix's foray into streaming television when they went from red envelopes to something you watched on your TV or laptop.

37:50Andy Greenwald:Wait, wait, can I do it? She helped them go from red envelopes to red carpets with her award slanted, award directed prestige fair. Yes. How was that? Let the guy host twice, and he's just like, I know better. Yeah. Cindy Holland is going to be basically overseeing some, it's a pretty murky org chart, but I think it's safe to say Cindy Holland's making a lot of television decisions, streaming television decisions at Paramount. That is safe to say. This is, in terms of like the insider industry news, she's who people, she's who the agencies are talking to, again. Yes. She is leading that. Paramount Plus and Paramount in general, I think most people think of the Sheridan universe and Star Trek universe.

38:40And those are definitely the staples of that. We're talking specifically about Paramount Plus and that area of the company rather than the Comedy Central, MTV, VH1, BET kind of collection of linear cable channels that they have. so other than those two sort of staples the Taylor Sheridan stuff the Star Trek stuff some Robert Michelle King shows there's a third plank of what they feel is working for them

39:11Andy Greenwald:and that's the Butterworth Barrio you know I think that's so that would be the agency that would be Mobland I believe he's working on so that that's considered to be like a successful and safe. An international play to some extent, I bet. Yeah, right. So they've got these three planks and Cindy Holland is, for lack of a better way of describing her, someone with really good taste. Yes. And over the years at Netflix here, some of the shows that she was, she helped bring to the screen, obviously House of Cards, which was their big flagship show for the first few years of Netflix's streaming TV endeavor, Orange is the New Black, a frequent award winner, The Queen's Gambit, Scott Frank's miniseries that would become a global phenomenon, Stranger Things, which remarkably is wrapping up this year.

40:05And in the interim between its two seasons, I saw that like, it was somebody had basically wrote us an email that was like, you guys should track all the stuff that's happened in the world since the last season of Stranger Things. Mindhunter, Russian Doll, the OA, the Crown, etc. So somebody who takes swings, takes chances. In the case of things like The Crown and Mindhunter, writes big checks to big brain creators and producers and directors who have a vision of what they want to do. Famously, we had heard that large chunks of season two of Mindhunter were reshot for Fincher's specifications.

40:42And Netflix was just like, sure, whatever you guys need, you know, that is the kind of relationship having and building that I think you get with her.

40:53Andy Greenwald:Yeah. So right now, I don't think you are a very big PP watcher, big Paramount Plus watcher. Every once in a while, I get you to fire up Landman or Lioness or whatever, but for the most part, that's my neighborhood. If I told you, or if I asked you, hey Andy, in two and a half, three years when we're sitting here, Paramount Plus is currently the like 7th most popular streamer by a lot of metrics. So it's not doing great. But if I told you in two and a half years, if I asked you, like, where is it now? Would you say Paramount Plus has made five shows that we loved over the last two years? Would you say there's been a huge growth explosion because they've nailed a couple of big tent poles?

41:37Where do you think this goes from here?

41:39Andy Greenwald:Well, I think Dan Bongino's talk show probably contributed to a lot of new subscribers, as well as Kash Patel's Crime Hunters. Are those guys both, they're not on Paranormal Plus, are they? Well, the way these things worked out. No, they're in the administration of the United States government, but I assume. No, well, okay, well, jokes aside, I think this is a perfect, it is a perfect landing spot for the correct executive in this moment. Now, I say this, I've never met with Cindy Holland. I don't know her at all. I've never worked with her. But she does have a sterling reputation and, you know, someone who does who works fairly and is pleasant to work with, but also someone who is still driven by actual good taste, which, you know, many people who work in TV have, but not many are empowered to use in their day to day business decisions anymore.

42:30Andy Greenwald:So, you know, her, she was the perfect person to build up Netflix's brand because, you know, as I was trying to do in my, you know, my dress rehearsal segue that I was doing for you about the red carpet, you know, to get the attention and to get the respect and to get stature in the industry, she was the person to do it. And she was programming things that other people wouldn't, in a way not too dissimilar from what AMC did when it bought the scripts that other people wouldn't that turned into Mad Men and Breaking Bad. It's been communicated to me that Orange is the New Black is her number one baby in the sense that that was a passion project for Jenji Cohen that she loved also.

43:09Andy Greenwald:And she empowered and programmed and turned it into an enormously successful show for the service and also one that won many awards, best case outcome. Her voice and vision was certainly not faltering, but Netflix's own direction and mandate changed. and she was a victim of the pivot to the gourmet cheeseburger era in the Netflix cafeteria. The Bella Bajaria coined term. What Paramount has working for it, Sheridan, Butterworth, Star Trek, is all of the things that Cindy Holland traditionally hasn't really cared that much about. I mean, maybe there are shows that she likes in that realm, but I think it's a good match where she's not only being hired for her gravitas and stature in the industry, but she's being hired to Orange is the New Black, Paramount Plus.

44:00Andy Greenwald:Not specifically that show, but to put it in industry terms, to broaden the audience share, broaden the appeal of the service. So I think that could be very interesting. I don't actually know what that will mean in terms of shows. Should we look at prior relationships she's had with people like Jenji Cohen? Maybe. I'm sorry, I'm just distracting myself because I was thinking about like if part of the settlement with Trump was he was like, we got to bring back porn stash. I got to know what's going on with that guy. I mean, orange is the new black, but like a POV from his perspective. And he's the hero.

44:37Yeah.

44:39Andy Greenwald:That's very possible. Um, yeah. So I, I, I think it'll be, I think it'll be interesting. And at least in terms of like the, the ripple effect that it's had internally in the industry, people are kind of jazzed about a quote-unquote new player coming online. And in the sense that like it has been better than it was the last two years in terms of a marketplace. But anytime there's like a buyer who is now empowered to like buy stuff, people are getting kind of jazzed about that. Yeah, I think my two cents are basically that it was a much different landscape when she was going all guns at Netflix.

45:12But the thing that I'm very hopeful about as a, just as a TV watcher, is that her instincts seem to take her to the thing that isn't currently on television. What is something that people don't have right now that they might want? What is something that is next? What is something that could be not a new franchise, but maybe like the kind of show that you would refer to as we want something like Stranger Things. We want something like Mindhunter. Nobody wants that because it's just expensive and only nine people watched it. But I think she's brave. And I think if I had a major complaint about TV right now is that we are, we're just in a real moment of stasis creatively where I think you're feeling, whether it's the after effects of COVID and the strikes or whatever, you're just feeling a lot of shows that feel like bland rewrites of a show you just watched seven months ago.

46:02Now, hands up, some of those shows I really like because there's just some times where I'm like, I want my stories. I like spies or I like cowboys or like whatever, you know, and it doesn't really matter to me if it's Terminalist or Terminalist Dark Wolf, But I think for the purposes of pushing the medium forward, it's good to have people like this in places of power so that they can take a risk. And you get something like the OA, which might not have been everybody's cup of tea, but was really clearly the work of a creative mind going for it with some backing.

46:36Andy Greenwald:I'm very interested to see if she is being empowered to, even on a smaller scale, do the kind of creator investing that she was able to do at Netflix. Like saying, Natasha Lyonne and this person. You go. Aziz Ansari with Master of None, which was a huge hit for them, both in terms of stature and awards and attention. um the OA could be what's interesting about a show like the OA is that it can be used as a representative of both sides of the same argument of like look what you get when you empower an idiosyncratic creative or look what you get when you empower an idiosyncratic creative um David Ellison you know made I was about to say made his bones his bones were fairly well set out for him at birth but but like his birthday present bunch of bones just a big pile of bones but like he did he backed and again this i'm saying this out loud it sounds insane as if this was some sort of a risky gambit but he was like yes tom cruise you should make more mission impossible movies at a time when other people weren't going to do that yeah but when tom cruise is like i that's going to be 500 million dollars because like we're going to do this this and this and we're going to write it around stunts he's like all right i'll find the money you know yeah and when trump says let's start scripting 60 minutes he's like sure you know like i think he's an agreeable guy.

47:55Andy Greenwald:I'll lose the money. Yeah. But regardless, I do think it's going to be interesting to see because, and I also understand why it would be an attractive opportunity, government payola aside, because it's interesting in the ways that it is not a quote unquote successful service yet, but it is extremely successful in the limited ways in which it has achieved success. So that does give her some freedom. I'm just a little curious to know what is in the Paramount library that she might be in charge of developing. Is that like, I'm really just grasping it. Like the first thing that I think of when I see the Paramount Mountain, but like the Godfather universe, you know?

48:37Andy Greenwald:Well, they did make that. They did the offer about the making of the Godfather. But I mean the actual Corleone family. When I think of the Paramount Mountain these days, I think of ridiculousness. And is there a prestige show there? you know, it's possible. In two and a half years, are you going to be here talking to me about how you always wanted to be the showrunner? How honored I am? One million percent. It's AI Chris being like, you're so funny, Andy. If I haven't been detained at some sort of facility by then, yes, I will be honored. All right, let's talk about a show we love instead of just all this news, which is fine.

49:14There's a bunch of stuff coming up. Alien Earth is next week. Platonic is back. I kind of tapped out on the first season, but the second season has been getting really good reviews. That's the Seth Rogen Rose Burn Show. Thank you for saying that.

49:24Andy Greenwald:I tapped out on the first season. Seth and Rose back in my life at brobible.com or whatever it is that I'm looking at. Is this a number you've gotten because they try snacks? You like it? No, I just like them so much. And I did see the autoplaying trailer on the Apple TV. And I was like, I feel like maybe I kind of want this. This is my energy this summer. You know, I'm ready to go back to that show. uh i coming up soon is uh terminalist dark wolf like i mentioned which is the uh taylor kitsch prequel to terminalist and i have spoilers about why it's not a sequel i found uh you know some tattered taylor kitsch season tickets in the back of a drawer here and um they're still valid so i think i might still check that check that out i also saw that there's a show on netflix coming out called hostage which stars saran jones as the prime minister of england and julie delpy as the president of france and they're embroiled in some sort of like blackmail hostage situation which basically sounds like the bodyguard but with what ministers netflix huh it's coming out in a few weeks uh obviously the paper and task those are all the shows coming out but right now andy and i don't really have something that we were super focused on like i mentioned earlier eastern gate came highly recommended but was just one of those things that uh fell through the cracks it's a Polish spy thriller that was released by HBO Max in January.

50:44I'm going to do my best with the pronunciations of the names, but I apologize to any Polish speakers or people who care about pronunciations. It stars Lena Gora as a character named Iwa, who is... You could say it's Eva. Eva. Okay. See, this is a dialogue.

51:02Andy Greenwald:I don't have to walk the plank alone. It's also Donal Gleason. What did I say? In the original Polish. You said the M. I thought the N was silent. No, the M's silent. Well, you know, make up your mind. You know what I mean? I'm really sorry about that. He's my countryman, but... It's okay. We're good. Lena Gora stars as the sort of main Jane Bauer kind of spy of the show. Yeah, there it is. And this show gave me some 24 vibes. This show gave me some early 24 vibes. In so much as the action is action-y. like when it turns up when this spy thriller turns into a spy action sequence it's not just like procedural ticky tack stuff it's like kicking and fucking punching and shooting and blowing stuff up so action heads will be served here it is obviously in Polish and in Russian and it's about a hot spot that I honestly had never heard of before but now I'm obsessed with called the Siwaki Gap which is right on the border of Poland, Lithuania, and Belarus.

52:09And goddammit, Andy, if the Russians don't want their little hands on that.

52:13Andy Greenwald:And so just to place it in the real world context, the show is set very specifically. And one of the best things about the show, I think, is its extreme specificity. It sets up scenes with the location, the date, and like the latitude and longitude and shit. It makes you really feel like you're zeroed in on it. And it's set in 2021. And basically, the thought behind it is that Russia is getting very, very aggro and Russia is going to do something. Is it going to be Ukraine? I'm glad we just wrapped that. We got that all taken care of. Exactly. Spoiler. We can watch it as a period piece. Well, spoiler.

52:42Andy Greenwald:Ukraine is what it did. But the other alternatives were the Baltic states or this, using their basically occupation already of Belarus to take out a NATO, part of a NATO ally, to claim this important shipping lane and move missiles there and really fuck shit up. This show is so sick. It's so good. This show is so watch-coded that I would just like to personally apologize for not getting onto it sooner and also not realizing my deep, deep partisan passion for the Polish people and their long ongoing fight for freedom. Sorry about that. Didn't really, wasn't really checking for it. But it's pretty gnarly.

53:22This is like, when I turn this on, it features an incredible opening sequence, opening 20 minutes of the first episode. it's quite graphic, but it's quite gripping. It felt like throwing a nicotine patch on. Like I was like, I'm automatically regulated. This is so well done. The pacing is immaculate. Like it's considered, but it's never belabored. It never feels like it's filler. It never feels like we have some plot line that utterly doesn't matter to the main thrust of the story. It is such a great white shark. It's just a hunting machine. And it is like stripped down, but feels emotionally like alive because I think the performances, especially Lena Gores, are so good.

54:09Andy Greenwald:I think that's really well said. For people trying to wrap their heads around it and our description of it, it does take some of the best pieces of a lot of shows that we've liked before. There's the global international espionage from a surprising point of view as in not one of the major players that we loved from the Bureau, which became the agency. Eva, who is a Polish spy, is pretty quickly in the series placed under political cover as a Polish consul in Minsk. And there are elements of that that remind me of Borgen or any of these other sort of like Nordic political dramas that people may have checked out over time.

54:46She has the pantsuit.

54:47Andy Greenwald:Like, it's really just the fashion. And then there's the more surprising action parts that, you know, to me, people's mileage may vary. I think there's a subset of people who might not be inclined to turn on Macs and immediately change the dub setting to original Polish. Which, side note, you have to keep an eye on because then when I did watch... You have to hit refresh on Macs to get that to come up sometimes. Just a UX note, yeah. No, that's not my concern. My concern is you do the right thing. you put it on in its original Polish and then you decide to unwind with, as I said, an episode of Conan O 'Brien must go and it too will be in Polish.

55:21Oh yeah. Also you can't watch bro Bible while you're watching the Eastern gate because like you'll, you'll just lose what's happening.

55:28Andy Greenwald:You can't look up and down exactly. But I was like the opening episode might be a litmus test of what kind of show you want it to be because I found it to be almost distractingly American in the sense that it starts with its noisiest set pieces. the legend that um eva is under when we meet her is very very different from the woman she is revealed to be in the character she plays in subsequent episodes so in retrospect it's an incredibly cool and gripping and character and from a character perspective like very very insightful and interesting opening but my only hesitation on the show was wait what even is this It felt American TV in the sense that the pilot isn't necessarily instructive of what it will be in series over the next five episodes.

56:17Andy Greenwald:The second episode for me is when it locked in and features a set piece at the end of the second episode. That's when she gets into her secondary cover as the console, yeah. And what happens at the end of the second episode is electric. It's a set piece that is so, so exciting and gripping. And as you said, Chris, I think that was a really smart point. Like any of the strands that were given are relevant in a way that also reminded me of Libero. Like there's such a deep bench of characters and a larger extending canvas of just places, worlds, issues that you were rewarded for sticking with it.

56:51Andy Greenwald:And you start to feel really good when you recognize characters, even if like to your point, like I'm not entirely like my guy with a leather jacket and, you know, who's a little bit tired of this shit. Lang. Yeah, I think that's his name. Okay. Yes, his name is Lang. I didn't know that, but I still love him. Do you know what I mean? I was thrilled to see him. I am only sort of on a superficial level grasping all the nuances of who's Belarusian and who is Russian. And it's starting to, as I almost finished the series here, it's becoming a lower season. It's becoming a little bit more clear. I hope they do another season.

57:23They are. It's renewed. It's renewed for a second season. Yeah. Here's some other recommended. I recommend Eastern Gate if you like Atomic Blonde with Charlize Theron, which I do. If you like Homeland, early Homeland. Yes, good call.

57:40Elements of John Wick. Not entirely, but I think it gets wicky at points.

57:45Andy Greenwald:You don't think Eva's a little ballerina-esque? Is that what you're saying? That's what I mean. Wick expanded. Not in any kind of the continental and you have a gold coin, but just in her ass-beating style. Like Jen Wick. Yeah, Jen Wick. That's good. Jane Bauer, Jen Wick, 24. for like, it's not as melodramatic or kind of hysterically plotted. Like all of this stuff is like, what is a microaggression on the part of the Russian state? What is a false flag? What is like trying to provoke? What, you know, like everything is about individuals trying to keep their nation states safe from nuclear war.

58:25But while doing it, like, you know, crossing certain lines, it's just, Also, at six episodes, it is one of the best binges I've seen this year, where you're just like, I would watch this in a weekend, honestly.

58:38Andy Greenwald:It's very well directed. The director is Jan Mataczynski, who I don't know anything about. It seems like he's done documentaries before. He was nominated for an Oscar. For, oh, an Academy Award? Yeah. I think I would have heard. And Wojciech Bakkenheim directed some of the episodes, and he is also one of the main writers, and I think is the creator. Although I just don't quite grasp the nuances of Polish credits there. what's really cool about it I think just from a global perspective and why we are we love watching international anything though is like you cannot replicate the psychological underpinnings of a spy show set in a country that is quote unquote in the way that it actually is it's a great point ground zero for the clash of nations there is no protective cover and it doesn't hurt it doesn't hurt that it has all this brutalist architecture and you're just like transpiring ported to this other part of the world that you don't get to visit, you know?

59:32Andy Greenwald:But a place, a part of the world that has been essentially fighting some version of this fight for centuries. Yeah. And there's a world weariness and an exhaustion with it that has just seeped into the every frame and the color palette. And it's, you know, all the references you made make it clear that the show is in conversation with and in negotiation with contemporary TV storytelling, but it is a hundred percent of its place. And I'm so fired up about it. So you and I both, I watched four. I haven't finished yet. I'm going to finish. And then maybe we can circle back and talk to our listeners.

1:00:05Andy Greenwald:So it's kind of a weird beat for us. Cause if we do a pot on Monday, which I hope to do, I think we'll talk about Eastern gate a little bit more and, uh, maybe talk about families like ours, which is a Netflix series from a couple of weeks ago. Maybe it was may, uh, from Thomas Vinterberg, who is a Danish director who made, uh, another round, which is that Mads Mikkelsen movies that was very critically acclaimed a couple years ago i love that movie um and he made a movie a show a series that i have seen compared to ether not and um station 11 so i thought we could check that out over the weekend it's um i don't know how many episodes i think that's six or eight episodes just another classic watch fact check and yeah we don't have no way of knowing it's just international week here i guess on on the watch while we get ready for alien and everything else all you motherfuckers are on boat somewhere on instagram i see you so i see you on bro bible this is on their social challenging joseph quinn to a snack eating contest on this is our vacation just let us have this you know um thanks to kaya thanks to john thanks to andy uh we will be back hopefully on monday watching warsaw you thinking it live show before a philly live show we got to do warsaw i think that makes sense uh thanks to everybody we'll talk to you soon

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