‘The Pitt’ S2E7 and an ‘Industry’ S4 Mailbag. Plus, Trailers for ‘The Mandalorian and Grogu’ and ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3.

7:34Chris Ryan:Yeah. Anyway, when I got back from dinner last night, I came across this.

7:40Andy Greenwald:So Fred again, who is a big deal that I knew nothing about.

7:43Chris Ryan:Yeah, huge. Real big with the kids. Real big. Real big with everybody. I mean, I think it expands beyond generations. Well, it does now. And he had a residency in London at the Alexander Palace, the Alley Pally, and had Mike Skinner, aka The Streets, performing with him. And he had, The Streets was like kind of doing his rap over Born Slippy, which is the iconic anthem of Trainspotting.

8:09Andy Greenwald:Darren Amerson comes out, drops the heavenly keys. And then Mike Skinner came out and did the verse from We Become Heroes. And then Carl came out. Carl came out. And did. And finished them. Born Slippy.

8:20Chris Ryan:And when the beat dropped on Born Slippy, it was like, yeah. That's why, that's what I put on. John Wick, make it end now.

8:25Andy Greenwald:It's like everyone within seven years of us in either direction, just check on them today. They probably need a hug. That was very, very meaningful.

8:34Chris Ryan:Okay, let's start with The Mandalorian and Grogu.

8:38Andy Greenwald:You love talking about this movie. Well. You're going to zag. Still don't know what it's about. Well, it appears to be about some beloved cartoon characters making the leap to live action.

8:48Chris Ryan:That's not what a movie can be about. Interesting that this trailer drops. And this is the week that Steven Soderbergh decided to break his silence about the hunt for Ben Solo. Did he? Wait, I didn't. Yeah, because he's doing a residency. Did Fred again bring him out?

9:03Andy Greenwald:Wait, what did Fred again just brought out all your heroes? Taylor Sheridan comes out to read the scripts from Linus season three.

9:11Chris Ryan:He's like, we are in the land of wolves now.

9:16Andy Greenwald:Then Bill comes out to reiterate that they're doing Sicario on the rewatchables.

9:20Chris Ryan:How many people are backstage? It's like a clown car. I doubt it was in any way tied to it. So what does Soderbergh say? Soderbergh is doing a sort of artist in residency at the Nighthawk Cinema in New York where he's presenting, I think, like 10 or 11 movies that have shaped him as a filmmaker. uh he did an interview uh can't remember quite where it was um about talking about that and then at the end of the interview he kind of got into the ben solo stuff and you know usually i would describe him as candid but incredibly um abled incredibly able at like deflecting and kind of being like oh it's not that big of a deal and blah blah he was like no i wasted two years of my life on it.

10:03Chris Ryan:And we were a go, like this was a go picture and they canceled it without being like, what's the budget? Like he's like, I'm pissed. And me and Adam and Rebecca Blunt, who I think is Jules Asner, right? That's the pen name. That's such a sick pen name. I think it's cool that he and his wife have all these different pseudonyms for the different jobs they do on his movies. In any case, he was just like, it's what keeps it spicy. I'm salty. I had made the movie in my head.

10:30Andy Greenwald:Yeah.

10:30Chris Ryan:We were like, we were getting going. He says nearly three years. Time inflation. Yeah. But I mean, the thing is, Steven Soderbergh, quote unquote, wasting three years of his life. He made nine movies in that time.

10:42Andy Greenwald:Yeah, and he watched every season of Below Deck again. He blogged about it. Yeah.

10:46Chris Ryan:So, I thought it was interesting that his comments about Ben Solo came out the same week that Mandalorian and Grogu because it's almost like, you know, the road is diverging into two paths. And we have taken the one where it's a lot of creatures jumping around baby Greedo is our future is he in this? yeah I did not read a frame by frame breakdown of this I did not baby Greedo yeah the same guy

11:12Andy Greenwald:we don't know maybe it's maybe it's Gregoo you know what I mean? like I we we have to learn we as a people have to get better and we can't just assume just because there's a little version of something that it's a baby of the other one

11:24Chris Ryan:well that was my mistake initially with Krogu right we were all like it's Yoda This is his origin.

11:30Andy Greenwald:That was my mistake with Austin Butler, too. I was like, he's a movie star. Not sure about that yet. You don't think so? I'm not sure. Okay. I didn't mean to, like, do a drive-by. We don't know yet. We get a little bit more of... Look how you're being... You're like that dude on CNN right now. Just asking questions. Which dude? Scott Jennings. I am not being like Scott Jennings. You're just, like, sitting back. You started this fire. Disney released this new trailer because of you.

11:57Chris Ryan:Well, I think that in the same way that I was concerned that they felt the need to do a send-up of the Budweiser Clydesdales commercial during the Super Bowl, I'm equally concerned that they were like, oh shit, we better show Pedro Pascal. Like a lot. I mean, yeah. Because maybe nobody wants to see this movie.

12:18Andy Greenwald:Yeah. Can you imagine in broadcast news, someone running up to Kathy Kennedy's office and just putting out a piece of paper on her desk. And she's not there. And she's not there. The death is empty. And Dave Filoni is sitting in the chair in the corner. You know what I mean? I think I know what you mean. And the piece of paper just has Eddington's box office numbers. They're like, get me that face. Get me that face.

12:41Chris Ryan:Get me the mayor from Eddington.

12:43Andy Greenwald:Put him in this movie. Did you see Eddington? No, that's on my list, though. I mean, pre-Oscars list. Not that it was nominated. So, yeah, I just think that I still don't know what this movie is about.

12:53Chris Ryan:But I think from my understanding, the young people of the very young people out there are very excited about this. And I support them. Kaya? Not Kaya's age.

13:04Andy Greenwald:No, but Kaya knows about Fred again. Single digits. What are the kids saying about Mando and Grogu? Use some slang, too. Say low-key. Yeah. Say aura farming.

13:15Chris Ryan:Kids are, kids are, fuck.

13:18Andy Greenwald:This is so exciting. Kaya, clip this.

13:21Chris Ryan:I'm trying to figure out how do I work. How do I work looks maxing? Kids are Grogu maxing.

13:27Andy Greenwald:Yeah, they're Grogu maxing. They're Muppet maxing in this trailer. Any other takes on Mandalorian? I don't know. We should get Matt Bellany on. I just genuinely...

13:36Chris Ryan:Matt Bellany, we should do a pod with Matt Bellany.

13:38Andy Greenwald:I agree. Matt Bellany is down. But only about his appearance on the studio.

13:42Chris Ryan:No, I want to talk to Matt about all the ins and outs, man.

13:45Andy Greenwald:I do too. His Ted Sarados interview was fascinating that he just did. But I guess this hasn't hit tracking yet. Yeah, I guess not. but they just keep dumping more creature slop into this and I don't understand the purpose.

14:00Chris Ryan:I think the purpose is to get children to come see it and if enough parents have to take their kids to this movie, it's going to be successful. If it's like dudes who still haven't gotten over Lottie and Andor, probably not for them.

14:12Andy Greenwald:For what it's worth, when this new trailer aired, my children sat up straight on the couch and they were like, that's the guy who had leg surgery in Materialist.

14:20Chris Ryan:Let's go. That's a good line.

14:21Andy Greenwald:Thanks.

14:22Chris Ryan:another parallel that I'll draw here is that it's the week of the season finale of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms already?

14:30Andy Greenwald:yeah I know but I wasn't trying to like you got worried for a second no that's a bummer I enjoyed it

14:36Chris Ryan:you sounded some reservations about the last episode I can never tell really where you're going and when you're buying and selling shows

14:42Andy Greenwald:I love the show

14:43Chris Ryan:okay we've got the last episode of that but today I saw the new trailer for the third season it's a teaser really for House of the Dragon.

14:52Andy Greenwald:And you didn't gatekeep it. You sent it to me. Right away.

14:54Chris Ryan:You know, James Norton joins the series this season. Saw him. You saw him in the trailer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you meant like it. No, I did the Leo on the couch thing. At the Delta One lounge or something like that. Well, it's possible with me. And I was struck by the, how different it feels. How different it feels. From what we've gotten used to the last few weeks, yes. Hearing Matt Smith be like, today you turn into king, you're really going to be the queen now. That's quite a transition. but that's not what I mean I just I'll have to adjust to get back into House of the Dragon mindset you know of big flying beasts and and literally Game of Thrones rather than the kind of more street level and more character driven stuff that we've been watching now it doesn't necessarily mean that House of the Dragon can't kind of correct course from where it was and I think adding some cast members will at least be interesting, if not a saving grace.

15:52Chris Ryan:Anything you took away from this?

15:55Andy Greenwald:I am not eager to get back to this world. Not Westeros generally, but this version of Westeros. It's been a long time, so I don't really remember.

16:04Chris Ryan:I forgot about... I think I forgot what's happening on the show.

16:08Andy Greenwald:It was weird that in updating us, they showed us a lot of the main cast, they showed us some new casts, but my favorite dynamic character from season two, the Weirwood tree, that had about 50 % of the screen time with Matt Smith, like what happened maybe the fire like that's the what happens to the that would I do remember a lot of those scenes okay we'll see yeah like weirdly enough time has passed that now when they showed Fabian Frankel I was like that's my guy I know we were so we were so fucking down for him I'm 180'd on him I'm mostly excited for him I guess that the most charitable response to something it's a teaser so we don't know anything yet is that they have had enough time now both making the show and reacting to the making of the show to know what they are doing and have a couple reps now.

16:57Andy Greenwald:And infamously, season two ended on the cusp of the big battle that people were excited about.

17:03Chris Ryan:Everybody's marching off. So I would imagine season three begins with it unless it's like some throat clearing before we get to it.

17:09Andy Greenwald:Yeah, and did Casey confirm it? But I think the sense is that four seasons is it for the show.

17:14Chris Ryan:Yeah, I think he said, like, I leave that up to the creators. but with something that's as expensive as this. And I, you know, there's a finite amount of story. They're moving through it.

17:23Andy Greenwald:What's crazy to me is how quickly high quality TV can change one's perspective and opinion about things because I did pick up just some headlines and some chatter with Ira Parker, who's the showrunner of Night of the Seven Kingdoms. People were asking him about, I mean, they're shooting season two now, but asking about potential seasons that could outpace the novellas. Yes. And I know diverging from George R.R. Martin's sacred text is controversial. And now the strict Scalia-esque reading of that is now back in fashion.

17:55Chris Ryan:Although to Iroh Parker's credit, there's several things in this season of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms that are either mentioned briefly as text or not in the books at all. And he's kind of not embellished, but had a flourish. so I don't this is the problem is that Martin's working pretty closely on A Night of the Seven Kingdoms and has talked about how he has ideas for several more novellas than have actually been published that's where you start to get into late period of Game Late period Game of Thrones when it's like well we have the blueprint but we don't have the actual working documents

18:25Andy Greenwald:Yeah

18:25Chris Ryan:I would hope that with something that's as compact as this they're able to kind of you know I don't even know if there needs to be 10 seasons of this.

18:37Andy Greenwald:All I was going to say was, that made me excited. If they could make this a regular occurrence, Dunkin' Egg, Havin' Adventures, fixed location adventures for a couple years, what a delightful addition to the HBO programming slate that would be.

18:54Chris Ryan:You know, one of the things that was interesting about the Soderbergh-Ben Solo idea was one of the few franchise ideas that actually was going forward. unless of course it was like Ben Solo actually in a hotel room with Sun Kilmoon in 2002. Punching the wall like marriage story. Everything is a dream, but it was basically this, it was going to continue to push that franchise forward rather than doing prequels and historical lookbacks. And Thrones is kind of creeping up on that precipice as well where I think they could continue to do great historical moments in the history of the realm, but it seems to be very little interest on the Martin side in having a Arya or Jon Snow show or whatever happens after this.

19:44Chris Ryan:But I wonder how many of these, can you do the, I don't know, not the Blackfyre Rebellion because it's in Night of the Sand. How many historical events in Game of Thrones can you do before anybody is like, hey, can we see what happened after Daenerys? I think that

20:04Andy Greenwald:that's also my only response to that good observation is that's one of the other reasons why Night of the Seven Kingdom is such a success because it is going historical but it's also going kind of sideways and in a different lane at a different speed and that is as significant as anything else I think when you're trying to mine IP for multiple seasons and multiple years across multiple corporate regimes I'm sure one of the most fascinating things that we could ever get access to probably would be the Game of Thrones development history of 2020 until present day of just like how many pitches they've heard, what directions they've gone, because I would imagine they've actively engaged on almost all of them.

20:48Andy Greenwald:Oh, I'm sure. Including ones that would not necessarily, may ultimately push the story forward with characters we know, but might just be like, yeah, we're in Essos now. Yes. We're telling that story.

20:59Chris Ryan:You gotta get out of this snow Lannister or, you know, Stark Lannister Targaryen triangle.

21:05Andy Greenwald:It's cool, but I think the other lesson, hopefully, you know, this is just wish casting. The lesson that I hope these people learn is that it is very much about the people you empower to tell the stories as much as it is the stories that you choose to pursue.

21:19Chris Ryan:I had two more things for you in news. Did you have anything for news headlines? Well, these trailers. It's not, this isn't a headline. this is more of a personal observation and a cry in the dark 000 one of my most beloved shows of the decade so far something that we talked about a fair amount during the pandemic when we were recording from our living rooms and stuff and from our offices and I had Andrea Risborough on the show to talk to her about the series it's an example of a time when Prime Video, Amazon's TV's philosophy was kind of like, let's give this filmmaker a ton of money and see what happens.

22:02Chris Ryan:And you got things like Too Old to Die Young and some of the Soloway stuff. Zero Zero Zero is definitely my favorite thing to come out of Amazon Prime's early days, and it is now no longer available on Amazon Prime. No. How did you find out? I was looking for it the other day because I was going to be talking about...

22:19Andy Greenwald:Because Eyes Wide Shut ended and you were like, let's keep the mood going?

22:22Chris Ryan:Sean and I on The Big Picture are talking about Crime 101, the movie, and also stuff that's been influenced by heat. And I was like, oh, I wonder how many TV shows I could come up with that could be credibly influenced by heat. And 000 was at the top of my mind because of the way some of the gun battles work. So I was like, oh, you just fire up some vampiros. And it's not there. It's gone. That's a bummer. Too Old to Die Young, incredibly still on the surface, even though it was never, ever promoted by anybody at Amazon. but it just goes to show you man i mean the more the more streaming services we get there are still things falling through the cracks oh yeah um so i i got i got 000 on blu-ray did you yeah i don't know this is not a conversation you probably are like dying to have it's just like this sucks that like these this is gonna happen um that we're especially if we get the merger one way or the other towards netflix or paramount i wonder how many how many series is this gonna happen to

23:17Andy Greenwald:Most of them, I think, other than the prizes that get kicked around. Yeah. Speaking of heat, which doesn't get a lot of airtime across the ring of properties. No, it's still sort of a cult thing. I thought you had a good conversation with Bill about Miami Vice. Oh, the other day? Yeah, in the podcast. You did a great mailbag appearance. Thank you.

23:36Chris Ryan:That's really good. I really appreciate that.

23:38Andy Greenwald:I thought it was really entertaining. I thought you had some very good points. About Miami Vice? Well, about Michael Mann's filmography and how across all of them, there is a man looking out over an expanse of water from his weirdly expensive sparsely modern living room yeah yeah it was a really good point um it did make me think and i know we have some industry questions but i i feel like there's more there's there's more meat on the mailbag bone for us you and me yeah sure because i feel like we we do them often like when there's a holiday or we're pre-recording and recently especially with the email address we've gotten really good questions Yes.

24:11Andy Greenwald:But the questions we do tend to fall into one of two categories. Like, what are the best shows of prestige TV in what ranking? Or what books are you guys reading? And I feel like we could do, I'm not saying we're going to turn into like.

24:21Chris Ryan:Sometimes when you see your students and they're not achieving, you got to look at the teachers. Yes. It's not the questions. It's us.

24:27Andy Greenwald:And I think our industry responses were quite good because you and I, which we probably should disagree more.

24:34Chris Ryan:But what can we do about that? We're just buddies. There's some slight disagreement about where this season of industry is at. And we asked our listenership to weigh in on where they were at. We got a lot of finance bros running in and just being like the EBITDA. I'm sorry? The EBITDA and the valuations of things. But generally speaking, I think it's like 50-50 pretty split. There's a contingent of people who kind of are still really, really, really, really vibing with the show and kind of thinking about it somewhat in the way I am. And then there's a healthy group of people who are like, I don't know if this Russia thing works for me, and I don't know if I can track Harper's character arc anymore.

25:19Chris Ryan:And I kind of miss kids at their first job going out at night. Sure. As if it was ever that innocent.

25:26Andy Greenwald:But yeah, some really great questions. It was a great segue. I was just going to say we should do more like life advice segments.

25:32Chris Ryan:Just you and me giving life advice to other people. Yeah, because we got it.

25:37Andy Greenwald:I mean, not for nothing. We nailed it. Yeah, I'm just a dude who gets overwhelmed by two inches of water. Yeah. Well, no, I got out. And I'd like to teach others. What is the value of me surviving if I can lift up others?

25:50Chris Ryan:Sure.

25:51Andy Greenwald:A rising tide.

25:52Chris Ryan:This is very Noah's Ark of you. What's going on? That's what it was like out there. Are you crazy?

25:57Andy Greenwald:They needed two of every kind of podcaster. And all we had was white men in glasses. so

26:04Chris Ryan:Greenwald is tough this episode is brought to you by Volkswagen it can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else but that's what some of the best films are about an outcast striving to make their own way in the world and this is your sign to be that outcast from us from VW from the other outcasts out there take a chance make the most of every day and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then. Because if you don't do it now, then when? Learn more at vw.com. These emails are relatively long. They're longer than usually we get for our mailbag, but I think I'll try to throw some out there.

26:45Chris Ryan:These are Industry Season 4 emails. So if you haven't watched Industry Season 4, I definitely would skip.

26:51Andy Greenwald:I also just, in context, and not just to gas you up, but I also enjoyed hearing you talk to Bill about Industry because it was a helpful reminder that as the show's audience has grown, the segments of audience has diversified as well. So that there are like a portfolio, if you will. That it was interesting just to hear his perspective of like what he likes about it and what he was saying about what other people in the parts of the country might like about it. Sure. And that it is interesting to note that like as a show becomes more successful, the fan base is no longer unified. It's not like one face of the fandom that likes the show because of vibes or because of finance or because of ketamine.

27:33Andy Greenwald:Like that there's different ways to engage with the show.

27:37Chris Ryan:Well, I mean, there's plenty of people I'm sure who watch it because it sounds really good and people look cool on it. And I don't mean that in a bad way because I watch some shows that are like that, but it's really nice to watch these people sort of move in and out of beautiful spaces as Nathan McKay music plays.

27:52Andy Greenwald:The other awesome thing about it that I think speaks to something that we have long been passionate about is that the opportunity that Sunday Nights on HBO gives to creators who are ready, talented, and willing to take it is still unmatched. Yes. In the sense that the show has a week-to-week stature and pride of place that allows and like encourages conversation. And so there are people watching industry this season who maybe haven't watched previous seasons, who maybe aren't liking the season or have different opinions about the season, but because it feels significant, And it's cumulative. And it does not, as we've been saying in ways both praising and criticizing, it does not shy away from the moment.

28:34Andy Greenwald:That makes it feel a certain kind of way, a certain kind of special.

28:37Chris Ryan:Here's an email from Will. Long-time listener, first-time writer, and once an investment banker here. After hearing Andy express possibly for the first time a few reservations about industry, on the most recent episode, I wanted to write in and share a few thoughts of my own. For context, I usually avoid shows and movies about the world of finance because they tend to simultaneously hit too close to home and turn me into a pedant about little inaccuracies. Succession was the rare exception, and when it came to industry, rave reviews of earlier seasons convinced me to give it a try. Despite some obvious artistic liberties, the first season did manage to hook me, especially after Harper's wrong-way cable sterling dollar pair trade with Aubrey.

29:14Chris Ryan:I kind of remember that.

29:17Andy Greenwald:The hairs on the back of my neck stood up, even though I don't remember anything about it.

29:20Chris Ryan:The way the writers had her escalating each batshit crazy move with an even crazier one was completely outrageous, yet also elegantly plotted and true feeling to her character. And just as me talking, I think ultimately, this is where I net out with any show about a very specific discipline, which is that I do not care if it is true. I care if it feels true. Absolutely. I don't really go to industry to be like, is this how people trade currencies? I'm going to industry to feel like it feels real. As the show evolved, I stuck with it, despite feeling its realism and believability fading with each season.

29:55Chris Ryan:But season four really jumped the shark for me. First, while the show was never particularly concerned with versimilitude, it felt to me like the creators became progressively less interested in that aspect to the point where key plot points were based on things that made no sense. And then he goes into a lot of stuff about Evie, EBITDA, multiple, Bill Adler's ouster, like a bunch of stuff about Harper and Petra's fund being up$600 million and then shorting peer point et cetera. We can ask Mickey and Conrad about that. As it relates to season four, I agree with Andy that the writers are trying to stuff too much plot into eight episodes and in the process creating clunkiness and telling not showing character behaviors that don't make much sense.

30:33Chris Ryan:For example, I understand that for plot tension reasons, the Tony Day turn and Eric Saul sacrifice are two big dramatic turning points in season four episode six. But while dramatically impactful, neither made much sense to me. If tender stock was down 30%, the market has clearly lost faith in the narrative that management, including the CEO and CFO, have been weaving. So why would a lower ranking employee going on TV to defend that very same narrative have any ability to assuage those doubts and turn the stock around? So that kind of stuff.

31:02Andy Greenwald:But your point, I think, is a really important one to make. We are not interested. I think we share this and we encourage other people to engage with art this way too. It's like we don't go to a gallery. We don't go to a painting, a gallery filled with paintings to look for photographs. We're going to see emotion, artistic sensibility, artistic decision making, and to see what can be communicated in non-direct, non-reproductions of life. And I have, as someone who proudly sits here before you, volunteering to give you life advice, who knows nothing about financial anything. Any criticism I have about industry this season, none of it has anything to do with losing the third rail of verisimilitude.

31:45Andy Greenwald:Yes. If anything, I think it speaks to a happy marriage between Mickey and Conrad's changing interests, which is good for creators to stay curious and to chase what interests them more, as well as the necessities of an ongoing TV show where it is, if the beginning, maybe it's about characters feeding the narrative and feeding the plot, later it becomes bending the story and bending the situations to feed the characters. Yes. So that all works well. That's fine for me. And I think one of the things that they've done really well from the beginning is, like you said, communicating what matters on an emotional level about those moments and scoring them appropriately, directing them, editing them appropriately as well.

32:27Chris Ryan:Yeah, I'll always use the Moneyball example as what we're talking about here, where the adaptation of Michael Lewis's book, the Brad Pitt film, feels true, even though I know that the pitching staff of the Oakland A's had a lot to do with their success that season and are never mentioned in the movie. Yes. Except for Chad, what's his face, who does the submarine.

32:50Andy Greenwald:The funky submarine arm. No, and there's Ricardo Rincon. Wasn't he a relief pitcher? Yeah, he was. did they get him? That's the trade. That's the trade. But it's not Tim Hudson,

33:00Chris Ryan:Mark Mulder, and Barry Zito.

33:01Andy Greenwald:I just have very few opportunities to prove that I've re-watched films. You know what I mean? So I just wanted to drop that.

33:06Chris Ryan:And they had a good closer that year too. It wasn't Keith Falk, but it was like... Is that later?

33:12Andy Greenwald:Why are we doing this? I don't know. Sorry. Will is going to write back in and be like, some notes about your mangling. As a longtime fan of Rotisserie League baseball, you are disgusting.

33:23Chris Ryan:Greetings from Caracas.

33:24Andy Greenwald:Oh wait, last thing. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, not about baseball. We're going to talk about the pit in a minute. The pit is rightfully praised for its accuracy about emergency room medicine. And we have often gotten, we get messages, but also clearly the culture understands that people who work in the medical profession are by and large fans of the pit because they're like, I've never seen this level of accuracy before. They could all be gaslighting me. every single thing that they say on the pit when they need a trauma room could be lies. Sure. It could be gibberish. Yes. And the show would still work.

34:00Andy Greenwald:And I think that's an important test. Like, the reason that the show is exceptional to me is very little to do with the fact that they can spout differential diagnoses for almost any circumstance.

34:10Chris Ryan:Right. Well, let's get into another email here from Oscar from Caracas, Venezuela.

34:15Andy Greenwald:Oscar, close the laptop.

34:17Chris Ryan:A lot going on. I just wanted to say season four of Industry is quickly becoming one of my favorite seasons of television. I agree that it is not flawless, but something being not perfect is usually a sign of greatness in the sense that it shows more raw identity and intent rather than meticulous restraint. I agree with you, Oscar. Put that on my tombstone.

34:36Andy Greenwald:Also, why you die. Not just your core belief system.

34:41Chris Ryan:I disagree with Andy regarding episode six in the sense that it is much, quote, in character for the series to progress that way. They do not waste time in over-explaining what you already can know because you understand the characters based on previous seasons and the dynamics between each other. For example, Harper's reaction to Eric's statements on CNN. I always got the sense that Harper had doubts about Eric's abilities because she doubts everyone's ability in front of her own. Furthermore, I agree with Chris regarding the bleakness of Rishi and Eric's return. Nevertheless, I just found the whole sending off for Eric to be really emotional.

35:15Chris Ryan:One of my favorite sequences this season is their conversation throughout the episode where Sweet Pea and Quibena go to Accra. It provides a lot of context as to why they feel towards each other at all. I admit the FSB side of things is a risk-taking that feels off-putting, but is that not a reason why we love Mickey and Conrad? Sorry for the rant. Don't turn on industry. I'm not turning on industry. No, I mean, yeah. And that FSB shit is real, man. Read about it. Oh, I thought, blink twice. No, just... They get up to some nasty work, man.

35:48Andy Greenwald:Yeah. Yeah. They're low-key winning, as my daughter would say. About Animal Crossing or something. Look, I just praised how the experience and the engagement afforded to industry by the week-to-week thing. This point that Oscar brings up very well is what makes this a challenge, because, and in addition to the fact that, like, nuance in 2026 and on podcasts is hard. Like, I love this show and I love this project and I will always choose exactly how he described it, like running towards risk and making, potentially making wild mistakes, much like Harper, over conservative television making, particularly when you have the bully pulpit that these guys have.

36:34Andy Greenwald:The fact that to my mind so far, there have and stumbles ultimately makes me more affectionate about the project. Sure. But it's been a challenge because we are in the middle of something quite audacious with the season, not the middle. We're now rounding third in the Moneyball sense of things. So we'll see.

36:52Chris Ryan:Yeah. To speak to your will see, I'll end on this email from Jake.

36:55Andy Greenwald:Okay.

36:56Chris Ryan:I started my career as an M &A lawyer at a Magic Circle firm in London and have enjoyed watching industry since day one.

37:01Andy Greenwald:I'm Googling Magic Circle firm.

37:03Chris Ryan:I am somewhat surprised to hear some pushback from Andy and Chris about the direction of the season.

37:08Andy Greenwald:Do you know what that is? Magic Circle firms are an elite group of five London headquartered law firms that were renowned for high stakes corporate banking and M &A work. That's a cool name.

37:17Chris Ryan:Magic Circle. To me, this is the best homage to Michael Mann I have seen since Tenet. No one in Miami Vice or Collateral talks like a real person. And frankly, very few people in finance talk like real people either. In each case, the players are professionals carrying degrees of hollowness that are necessary for survival. Much like any espionage tale, man's protagonists know that standing on principle often means certain death. The dramatic tension for us as viewers is witnessing when they choose to take that stand and suffer the consequences, e.g. Eric on CNN. I would be curious to know what each of you think the show needs to accomplish in the next two episodes.

37:54Chris Ryan:You continually express admiration at the risk-taking on an episode-to-episode basis, but it sounds like you need something more grounding. Is that a through-line emotional arc character growth or something else? Happy, blah, blah, blah, and thanks for making your podcast.

38:08Andy Greenwald:So before we answer the question, I would like to digress slightly and say that as perhaps American podcasts' two biggest fans of Tony Gilroy, I love people who talk like this. and we know Mickey and Conrad love Tony, the person and the screenwriter. And it's a great, it's a great style to chase and to pursue. I think that my criticism of some of the language this season is related to my criticism of the real estate problem. In the show's history, in the first few seasons, there was a more equitable, it felt anyway, equitable split between work hours and nightlife hours. Now, obviously the core tenant of the show is that everything is everything all the time.

38:53Andy Greenwald:But often the excesses of adrenaline during the day would be equaled with the excesses of drugs and alcohol at night, which would lead to a different kind of intimacy and honesty that would then feel even more raw in the harsh glare of the trading floor in the next morning. And I felt like there was a balance created between the types of conversations people would have in suits and out of suits. Earlier this season, there was a scene in Somerset. I believe it's at Henry's party, but I may be conflating events. But there is a Harper and Yasmin scene where they are talking.

39:28Chris Ryan:Oh, they're being really snippy with each other.

39:30Andy Greenwald:No, they're being snippy often, but they're being a little more intimate and like they are friends. And yeah, they're being a little snippy with each other, but they're being, it's from a place of peacefulness between them as opposed to where the season was inevitably going. And I think Yaz is chopping up lines or something, which makes it totally consistent with the previous three seasons. as the story has ramped up this season, we've lost a lot of those scenes. And so now whenever characters speak to each other, they are wearing their power suits and they are speaking in their Tony Gilroy monologues to each other.

40:01Andy Greenwald:And for me, that throws off the balance. Sure.

40:05Chris Ryan:So for you, the answer would probably be feeling like that, hey, we took the masks off intimacy coming back in the last couple of episodes to make you feel a little bit closer to the characters.

40:17Andy Greenwald:And for what it's worth, everything we're talking about is the project, which is why I'm always trying to be careful about how we criticize or even discuss it. The fascinating aspect of Rob and what made him so essential in the balance of the show was that when the drugs came out and when the alcohol started pouring, he became more vulnerable and more honest. And that kind of made him more at risk because the other characters just became heightened versions of themselves to a different degree. but he was always leading with his bleeding heart and that character and that that energy is is gone now um yeah so just you just notice it but like the point you made so well the other day when we were talking about the episode is like there is no division anymore because eric is living where he is working this is a like forest not trees brilliant iteration of the show it's where it was always going.

41:09Andy Greenwald:It's not just defensible. It's an excellent idea. But execution is where I'm starting to get tripped up. You can defend, and not just defend, you can make really strong arguments in favor of every decision, which is the sign of a quality program.

41:24Chris Ryan:There's a fan edit floating around, basically, when people make their own montage and stuff like that of mixtapes of television shows or movies. And there's one that's basically Eric's speech from the first episode of the series. Yeah. And he talks about how the baseball bat or is that later? Can't remember if he has a baseball bat. I think it's like when he's doing the actual like welcome to peer point speech and he's talking about how half of you will not be here when we get to the end. And then it kind of goes through all the people who have been vaporized by this business or, you know, from death to choosing to go do something else, to being exiled to America to being where Eric is now.

42:05Chris Ryan:And now Eric is one of the half of the people that he is talking about. And I don't know. I think as long as the show keeps its nerve when it comes to stuff like that. And I think the problem I have when shows or movies or anything dabbles in the real Michael Mann shit like that is that they don't have the guts to follow through. And then at the end, it'll be like, no, actually, he just needed to like kind of connect with his trauma. And now he's fine. It's like, that's not how this works. These people aren't fine. That's why they are the way they are in the first place is because they're not fine.

42:41Chris Ryan:And they don't get it fixed within the 45 minutes to an hour of a television show or two hours of a movie. So as long as it holds its nerve, I'm down.

42:50Andy Greenwald:It's going to hold its nerve. The show, I mean, shows become main characters are often avatars of the spirit of the show. And the show is Harper. And the show doesn't give a fuck. Yeah. And the show is not going to be felled by the numbers trauma or your... I'm trying to think what happened. What was Don Draper's weakness was that he was going to get found out. Well, Harper got found out early on. Like midway through the first season? Didn't matter. Yeah.

43:14Chris Ryan:But then it turns into a long-term treating of secrets and lies between these people.

43:20Andy Greenwald:What undid Tony Soprano? He had weird dreams. Yeah. Harper doesn't dream, man. He doesn't even sleep. So, not worry.

43:26Chris Ryan:This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else, but that's what some of the best films are about. An outcast striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from VW, from the other outcasts out there, take a chance. Make the most of every day, and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then. Because if you don't do it now, then when? Learn more at VW.com. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Peaky Blinders is hands down one of the most iconic series of all time.

44:04Chris Ryan:And the gangsters are back in Netflix's new film, Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man. Tommy Shelby, played by the Academy Award winning Killian Murphy, of course, must face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to the ground. I watched the movie and let me tell you, it's just fascinating to watch Killian on the other side of the Oppenheimer journey that he's been on, becoming one of our great actors. I mean, he already was one of our great actors, but to become one of the major movie stars in Hollywood, this is perhaps his signature role, his iconic role. He brings like an even more haunted, weathered quality to it.

44:38Chris Ryan:And he's paired off with Barry Keoghan, who's just extraordinary in this and brings this youthful vigor and energy that the story greatly benefits from. Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man is in select theaters March 6th and on Netflix March 20th, Rated R.

44:51Andy Greenwald:This episode is brought to you by the Focus features film Hamnet. From director Chloe Zhao and producers Steven Spielberg and Sam Mendes, AFI hails Hamnet lifts the audience high above humanity. And now, the Golden Globe winner for Best Picture of the Year has been nominated for eight Academy Awards, including Best Actress Jessie Buckley and Best Picture of the Year. Hamnet. Our stories live forever. Rated PG-13. Maybe inappropriate for children under 13. Now playing in theaters everywhere.

45:22Chris Ryan:let's do the pit yeah this will be for the what is this 2pm 1pm look man it doesn't really matter I come in with the episode number do you know what it is you know what time it is it's fucking Jack Abbott time because we scream ACAB except for Jack Abbott you know what I'm saying

45:41Andy Greenwald:all cops are beautiful doctors

45:43Chris Ryan:this guy on his time off

45:46Andy Greenwald:this is so funny

45:47Chris Ryan:he's doing field medicine for SWAT teams

45:49Andy Greenwald:my guy comes in in full camo drip with a gunshot impact wound from stopped by his vest that he attempts to self-surgery. This reminds me of when you show up for The Watch having done four other podcasts in your free time.

46:05Chris Ryan:I just need to say that this show jumped up a notch when he showed up. Like, it is the absolute, it's the example of, you know how like Trent Dilfer once said about quarterbacks, there are thermostat guys and thermometer guys. Yes. Some change the temperature. Some read the temperature. Mm-hmm.

46:25Andy Greenwald:Mm-hmm.

46:25Chris Ryan:That's what he's talking about.

46:26Andy Greenwald:Which one is he?

46:28Chris Ryan:Thermostat. Yeah, wait. Thermostat comes in, you change the temperature.

46:31Andy Greenwald:Oh, he changes the temperature.

46:32Chris Ryan:Some people react. Some people proact, you know, or whatever. It's like...

46:37Andy Greenwald:Which one are we?

46:39Chris Ryan:I think you're more reactive. I think you really feed off of my energy.

46:43Andy Greenwald:Yeah, I do. It's 100 % true.

46:46Chris Ryan:Jack Abbott was a necessary shot in the arm in a show where there are lots of shots. And I thought he was fantastic. But I'm almost skipping the lead here because this show knows what it has in Catherine Lanasa. There's been the first few weeks of this season, obviously, like, a lot of memes about baby Jane Doe and, you know, Dana's perhaps losing the hold on the Pittsburgh accent. There's been some talk about where that accent is going.

47:18Andy Greenwald:I don't, by the way, it's 1 p.m. I don't, yeah, we don't need to dwell on that. I don't think she's ever done a Pittsburgh exit. She's doing Delco.

47:24Chris Ryan:Yeah. She's extraordinary in this episode. And this is why this show is more than just like a really cool piece of ER karaoke and like a great kind of, the dignity it bestows on almost every single person who comes onto that screen is kind of, I can't really think of too many other television shows that I've seen do this.

47:47Andy Greenwald:The genius, like absolute God-tier artistry of this show is not where we thought it was going to be. The headlines about The Pit before it premiered was this is going to be an ER slash broadcast style medical show done for the prestige era in real time. and everyone, us included, understood that to mean it'll be gorier, it'll be more intense, and it will do more formalist trickery because it's given itself this almost painterly challenge of real-time storytelling. Sure, it did all that, and that wasn't even a stress for it. The incredible achievement of this show is really coming into focus this season in the way that in the midst of the chaos, it finds pockets of space for absolutely reverent and, as you said, deeply respectful recreations of actual medical emergencies.

48:44Andy Greenwald:The fact that in episode seven of season two, there was enough space, and they had enough confidence to take the space, to have Dana show us what it means to be an emergency response for sexual trauma. Yes, a sane. I got the letters wrong. But most shows don't have time for that. Slower-paced shows don't have the time for that.

49:08Chris Ryan:The pit probably shouldn't because of the way a typical— I don't even know what a typical episode is anymore, but finish your point. I didn't mean to cut you off there.

49:16Andy Greenwald:No, you did. That's the point. It finds these pockets of air to do these stories and to do them well. We joke about how there are moments where, you know, essentially the characters like turn to the camera and deliver ActBlue emails to us, which, you know, guilty. Can't spam them all. But nothing about the representation of this traumatic event and how it plays out with people like Dana, it felt canned or forced or declarative. It was just living. And in the midst of an episode in which, as you said, Jack Abbott comes in in camo and is just like, you're going to make it, buddy. We've just found the hole in your trachea.

50:02Chris Ryan:It's a miracle. Obviously, it's a very raw and volatile moment. You know, this character, Alana, is a rape victim. And Dana and I believe Emma is the first day nurse.

50:17Andy Greenwald:You said it's sane. It's sexual assault nurse examiner. and when they first say sane, I thought they were saying saint, which also works.

50:23Chris Ryan:Yeah, and you know, it's strange to be like, this is really savvy storytelling about something like this, but the fact that you bring along the first day nurse allows Dana, A, to say, you should sign up to be one of these because we need one and we need more of these nurses in hospitals. Two, it allows her to walk the nurse through it step by step.

50:48Andy Greenwald:Yeah, like the audience.

50:49Chris Ryan:So there's basically a double VO. It's like Dana's explaining to the victim, here's what I'm going to be doing, here's what I'm going to be doing. And then she can turn to the nurse and be like, here's how we save this sample for collection later. And here's like why the chain of evidence needs to be strict because of X, Y, and Z. And it's just absolutely extraordinary piece of television. It's very hard to watch. It's very, but I think it's sensitive and it's straightforward and it doesn't adorn it with music and it doesn't have unnecessary like banter or anything like that. Like it is what it is.

51:26And I thought it was just a great, a great act of television making in this episode.

51:32Chris Ryan:And Linas is fantastic in it.

51:34Andy Greenwald:Something I believe in my bones is that good storytelling isn't complicated. It's fucking hard. Yeah. But it's not complicated. it. And as obvious as it seems now that we're enjoying the fruits of this decision, someone in this creative team and in this writer's room, um, had to walk in one day at the Warner Brothers lot and was like, well, the way to give Dana more screen time is to do what we did in season one with the doctors and she needs a resident. And now all of those avenues of storytelling and of teaching are now available to this character. And that gives us different ways into these rooms and different ways to it the beauty of the show and why i never get tired of talking about it is because we can praise it for the the the storytelling and the drama and the performances but we can also break down the x's and o's and that when you give more story to the nursing staff everyone else gets a breather everyone else can move more naturally between princess and dana rolling around yeah it when you when you spread the offense like that yeah i mean That's the Sean Mannion method, I believe.

52:39Chris Ryan:This, I think, will stand as where the season turned. If I express some reservations about what an average temperature episode of The Pit felt like, I always enjoy watching this show. It was really more of a just like, what does this show do when it's not Apocalypse Now at this place? And I don't have to worry about that anymore because obviously the episode ends with this cyber attack or at least a feared one. And before we get there, I did want to talk a little bit about Al Hashimi, Dr. Al Hashimi, who's another person that we've been kind of, not concerned trolling about, but just kind of concerned about like, you know, it's been six hours.

53:24Chris Ryan:We're going to get another wrinkle to this person other than them walking in and saying generative AI all the time. What did you think of the hints of something going on with her as the young man who was sort of arrested or brought in after being tased in his school library. He's developing schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. He's presenting some concerning mental illness. And as I believe, was it Javadi talks about that with the parents of this kid, Al-Hashimi seems to have a moment. A panic. A panic. Goes into a bathroom and calls her a neurologist.

54:02Andy Greenwald:Yeah.

54:02Chris Ryan:We don't really know what's going on there. But what did you think of adding a layer to her?

54:07Andy Greenwald:Dude, also, if an attending ER physician has to do the press two to make an appointment menu with doctors, we are cooked. Like that made that's that stressed me out more than anything. Someone give her a real life person to talk to. I mean, it was troubling for the character, clearly, but promising for the storytelling and of a piece with the other thing that these guys just seem to be just preternatizing gifted at, which is anticipating audience temperature and reaction. There was a period of time, like the, the, the dawning of like fan internet when like television without pity existed. And that was like the early message board where people talked about TV in a different way in terms of being like fans, but also critical and also talking about the craft.

54:57Andy Greenwald:And there was a real dividing line. And this is like in the early, like 2004, five, six, seven, eight of people. So pre-Grantland even, but some creators engaged with it and some people didn't. Um, but probably everyone looked and you could probably do a forensic examination of some of the TV from that era and be like, they got too deep in the boards because things became reactive. You know, like what lost did to Nikki and Paolo is an example of reading the audience reaction to it and just hitting the ejector seat on whatever plan you have in a kind of vengeful way. What the Pit is doing at such an advanced level is it just seems to understand the electorate.

55:39Andy Greenwald:Yeah. Last week was our breaking point with Al Hashimi. This week, we get depth. One thing that I've noticed in the Pit fandom is that the past two weeks seems to have been a breaking point with superfans with Santos. There's a lot of fan anger, hatred of this character. She's so mean. She's so whatever. This is the episode where they cleared a little space for her to show those Broadway chops and sing. And that knowledge of when to drop a little bit more to draw you back in is masterful.

56:16Chris Ryan:I fully disagree with any...

56:17Andy Greenwald:I don't agree with the criticism, but please give me the...

56:20Chris Ryan:I just think that that character is different than she was in the first season.

56:23Andy Greenwald:Yes.

56:24Chris Ryan:I think that her stresses and her attitude in this season are rooted primarily in her mixed feelings about Langdon being back and avoiding him. And, you know, the pressure that she's feeling to finish this second year of her residency or whatever year of the residency that she's now worried about having to redo if she falls behind too much on her paperwork. And she's sort of being used as an example of the bureaucratic and clerical pressures that doctors are under outside of the actual day-to-day job that they have to do. I think it's pretty interesting that she and a couple of these doctors, I believe, would be now having to choose what to do with their jobs.

57:11Chris Ryan:That came up with Javadi. It did make me wonder whether we'll have some cast turnover.

57:16Andy Greenwald:It's inevitable.

57:17Chris Ryan:Practically speaking, we probably should.

57:19Andy Greenwald:They did a rather large time jump. So they are now, these are all into their second years, basically. They could do a shorter time jump to keep them in their current places. They could inevitably—

57:33Chris Ryan:July 6th.

57:35Andy Greenwald:Robbie's just rumbling away in his motorcycle. Just know while he's sitting the season out.

57:42Andy Greenwald:Inevitably, some of these young pups will be like emergency medicine is my calling. Yeah. but I think you're right that some won't. Some might move upstairs to other departments and then we might expand the aperture of the show to them coming in and out. You know, the show won't really go upstairs that often.

57:56Chris Ryan:Yeah, it seems like it's very dedicated to staying within the emergency department and the ambulance bay of the emergency department. Sometimes the roof. Sometimes the roof. I mean, it's essentially, if a doctor goes somewhere, it opens it up to following them, but for the most part, it seems like it shoots.

58:12Andy Greenwald:You were saying before about industry having the courage of its convictions. I mean, the pit is designed to be forward thinking and nimble and also backwards looking and comfortable. There could be a breaking point when it will have to make tough decisions about fan favorites or about, you know, losing people to gain people that may be controversial. And that, but that's all, that's all in the future. In the meantime, making those kinds of future decisions part of the story, it's important. Yeah. and so like for example we learned this week that Javadi has a fun dad fun dad so really like that plot line yeah that like I just felt like that was really really a cool choice fun dad likes what does he like pickleball and whiskey

58:55Chris Ryan:yeah

58:56Andy Greenwald:great great he has like a fun handshake with his daughter and the mom's like

58:59Chris Ryan:give up pickleball or you know give up both yeah she's tough have you noticed um I saw you're speaking of Pitt fandom they're very attentive uh the fandom is very detail-oriented.

59:12Andy Greenwald:And I'm not trying to strawman the fandom. If I go on the Reddit website, it's all Pitt stuff now to me, and it's all fucking Santos.

59:18Chris Ryan:This is not the way I watch this show, which is looking for clues and threads and mysteries. There's a couple of things that I've noticed that they have this helmet thing with Robbie has come up a bunch. The Al Hashimi thing with her talking to a neurologist, a couple of people have pointed out that she has done very little hands-on doctoring. It's true.

59:44Andy Greenwald:She says, do you need help in here a lot?

59:46Chris Ryan:Yeah, Robbie and Abbott are often like, I'm shoving a Nerf ball into this guy's abdomen to keep it inflated. She's like, I instruct others.

59:55Andy Greenwald:She's quite clean.

59:56Chris Ryan:But I don't know whether that's worth noting in relationship to whatever she's talking about to her neurologist.

1:00:03Andy Greenwald:That's like a soccer thing, right? He keeps a clean jersey. No, it's a clean sheet. clean sheet and baseball baseball is who you want to get

1:00:11Chris Ryan:yeah you want to get dirty you slide a little bit Charlie Hustle

1:00:13Andy Greenwald:right

1:00:14Chris Ryan:just saying that's out there it's floating out there

1:00:16Andy Greenwald:so where do we think that's going

1:00:18Chris Ryan:that she could have a neurological problem that's affecting her hands

1:00:22Andy Greenwald:oh well I didn't see that coming at all that's a guess

1:00:25Chris Ryan:this is just I am nothing I'm just a conduit

1:00:29Andy Greenwald:what kind of doctor are you I go out I get the information

1:00:31Chris Ryan:I bring it to you and I share it with everybody else and I take no responsibility for the information

1:00:35Andy Greenwald:well you fit right in on the internet this is you found the perfect medium for your particular set of skills. I really have. It is amazing. We still all talk about that. All of us, the old gang from New York. Chris got in a microphone

1:00:49Chris Ryan:and just started talking about driving and listening to Gentle Moon.

1:00:52Andy Greenwald:Which you did before there was a microphone. I did. So when a man meets the moment, you can't front on it.

1:00:57Chris Ryan:Any other pit news?

1:00:59Andy Greenwald:Langdon, Robbie, you know. Up on the roof. That's a weird moment to shout at each other. They should get a podcast. you know, work it out the way modern men do. I don't think Robbie's wrong. You know, I think that we...

1:01:12Chris Ryan:He may have wanted to try and make that decision before Langdon came back, but obviously...

1:01:16Andy Greenwald:But also he thought he was on the way out. And he, and his, it was interesting to see Robbie's coaching style not work for all players anymore. Yeah. You know, because he was, Langdon was freezing up. Some people, maybe it's new school, like Gen Z's sensitive snowflake stuff, but you want to be lifted up. You don't want to be put on the spot like that.

1:01:35Chris Ryan:Yeah. I guess we can wrap it up there.

1:01:39Andy Greenwald:I guess. Any couple other things just to throw out at you? Please. We can move on. Santos lingering on some scarring on her leg.

1:01:46Chris Ryan:Yes, a cutter.

1:01:47Andy Greenwald:Cutting, perhaps. We don't really know the full story there.

1:01:53Andy Greenwald:The Chekhov's deaf patient stressing me out. Speaking of Santos, I feel like—

1:02:01Chris Ryan:Not a great match between patient and doctor, I don't think. Santos is being kind of beleaguered and needing to move through some stuff.

1:02:09Andy Greenwald:Also, the speed with which a lot of things get done once you actually enter the ER, you're out in triage or waiting for a long time, but then once you get in, usually you've got to free up the beds. She really seems to have an unlimited stay.

1:02:20Chris Ryan:Well, this is the crazy thing about this season, is they've got several people who are kind of squatting. They've got Digby, the homeless guy. they've got Roxy the terminal cancer patient who doesn't want to leave and they had the prisoner who was going to get fed but is I think going up to another bed

1:02:37Andy Greenwald:do you have any takes on Roxy?

1:02:40Chris Ryan:I'll be honest it's kind of like a hard thing for me to watch it's not my like preferred storyline you know this is another plot line where I'm like what's also happening here that I think I will also I think what is actually happening is exactly what we're watching yes but I'm like why does she keep trying to not go home that's the thing about the show

1:02:58Andy Greenwald:That's TV brain. No, but it's, again, they have that brain. So this storyline could be exactly what it appears to be, that her husband is too solicitous, too kind, has given up too much of himself, and she has hit her breaking point where she does not want to be treated this way or to be in a mausoleum of her own home or whatever the case may be. Or, and they know it as well as we do, is there something ominously?

1:03:25Chris Ryan:Yeah, I mean, I think the reason why I'm even, like, wandering off into what's wrong with Al Hashimi and what did the husband do is because the opening few episodes did have a couple of zags of like, you think this guy's sick, but it's actually his wife. Oh, remember that? Yeah, so it's like, it'll play around with that, but I think once we get into the real fire of going analog, which this episode ends with, Yeah, that's nuts.

1:03:49Andy Greenwald:The CEO shows up, Trent Norris. CEO, Trent Norris. Some people are born to be CEOs. That's true. Wearing his little pink shorts.

1:03:59Chris Ryan:Yes, because he was at a July 4th party.

1:04:01Andy Greenwald:Didn't want to, we don't know that. That just could be what he wears.

1:04:04Chris Ryan:I think the idea is that he has been ripped from his grill. Disagree.

1:04:09Andy Greenwald:I think he is a fun CEO. Oh, yeah. And he always dresses in bright colors and shorts.

1:04:13Chris Ryan:Mr. Kaiser Permanente is always wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

1:04:16Andy Greenwald:Yeah, when Pat Croce was CEO of the Sixers, and he's just like, I'm like you. Yeah, that's true.

1:04:19Chris Ryan:I wear shorts.

1:04:20Andy Greenwald:Yeah, see you guys at TGA Fridays. It'll be fun. Yeah, that was wild. So here we go. not that we weren't already going yeah

1:04:28Chris Ryan:thank god they have Jack Abbott on the fucking on the clock now the night shift came in early brother

1:04:34Andy Greenwald:what before we go and you could you could punt this next week if you want but like what would be the craziest off hours thing for you to choose to do and honestly I think you'd do it because you just admitted on this podcast that in your downtime you fired up a rewatch of zero zero zero but this dude is a night shift emergency room doctor who in order to chill out during the day goes on SWAT team race.

1:04:59Chris Ryan:Do you know what it would be, honestly? Yeah, talk about it. If I took down scores. If during my off hours, I was actually really about this life and was robbing banks. And then I came back in and potted about movies where banks get robbed.

1:05:13Andy Greenwald:First of all, someone just sold that idea. Why didn't you keep that? That podcaster? No, the rewatchables-esque podcaster who then commits crimes inspired by the lifestyle of the criminals in the movies that he has unusual insight into. You want to go half on that? Yeah, you go half, I get a piece. Yeah, you can get a touch. You can get a taste. Can I get your life rights? Because travel baseball. I just pre-sold that to Amazon Prime.

1:05:43Chris Ryan:Travel baseball Sicario.

1:05:45Andy Greenwald:Where a 15-year-old catcher in his downtime in flip-flops

1:05:53Chris Ryan:is Josh Brolin from Sicario.

1:05:55Andy Greenwald:Is also Josh Brolin from Sicario.

1:05:57Chris Ryan:Gotta wrap it up there. I guess so. Thanks to Kaia McMullen. Thanks to Kaia. Thanks to everybody. We'll be back on Monday. Season finale of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms and the penultimate episode of Industry. I mean... Some fun guests coming up. Shorzy's back. I am going to make you watch the first episode of the new season of Shorzy. It is the funniest thing I have seen since Eastbound and Down.

1:06:19Andy Greenwald:That's big words. I'm always willing to do things you suggest. Yeah. Do you want to follow up?

1:06:24Chris Ryan:I am always willing to do things you suggest, except watch animated films.

1:06:28Andy Greenwald:There it is. Just to leave people on a cliffhanger.

1:06:31Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:06:32Andy Greenwald:Do you think it's still drizzling out there? Yes, I do.

1:06:34Chris Ryan:I don't think we're going to get, I don't think we're going to walk out into brilliant sunshine.

1:06:38Andy Greenwald:Okay. Wish us luck. This might be our last pod. Hope you brought your snorkel.

1:07:09Chris Ryan:We'll see you next time. Try the new wraps today in app or at order.sweetgreen.com. Available at participating locations only.

1:07:43Andy Greenwald:slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.