‘The Pitt’ Season 2 Finale, ‘Top Chef’ S23E6, and ‘Bandi’

18:15Andy Greenwald:No, look at us. We're on camera. But I found - And I'm directing this. You're doing great. I did find the like, it just felt, some of it felt really rough. Yeah. And that is interesting to her to continue to mine, but I felt empathy more than lurid interest, I guess if I'm going to be serious about it when I read it. What are you reading instead? What am I reading instead? Yeah. I've got a great book, man. It's over there. I'm reading this book called Lives of the Saints by Nancy Lemon. Okay. It's awesome. Is it new? No, it's her first book from the 80s, but she has a new book out also from New York Review of Books called Oyster Diaries.

18:52Andy Greenwald:It's one of those things where Jeff Dyer writes the intro and is like, eventually the long arm of time returns masterpieces to print. I'm like, yeah, let's go. So NYRB, are you going exclusive NYRB right now? After Afringers? I'm negotiating with them. I would like to get an exclusive look. I have never more desperately begged for a brand endorsement. Like, I would wear that on my uniform. Like, is it Rwanda for the Sixers? Yes. And they are uninterested in this kind of sponsorship right now. I don't know why. But that's a great book so far. Why would they not be interested in you? You talk about NYRB more than you talk about, like, beef.

19:28Andy Greenwald:Because I think, you know what I think their point is? And I don't know this because I've never spoken to the great men and women of NYRB. Yeah, the New York Review of Books, if we haven't said it. I don't think they need to pay me because look at me. Oh, yeah, that's the problem. I'm giving it away out here. This is the problem with influencing is you have to withhold your influence until you're paid for. And you know me, I'm very generous with my influence. Well, one thing that I feel like we can take, like, the smallest amount of credit for influencing is the fact that the Bureau has got, like, a degree of domestic.

20:02Look, I'm not saying that we were ever, like, the dudes who brought the Bureau across the pond and were like, sirs, look what we discovered.

20:10Andy Greenwald:That was our predecessors at the AMC network. That's right. Are we ready to announce or not yet? but La Bureau, obviously Eric Rochon's spy drama from a few years ago, it's celebrating its 10th anniversary in 2025, I believe. It did, yeah. Yes. And still just an absolute diamond of a television show that I think about all the time is currently being remade in an English language as the agency on Paramount+. Which is a sign of a great source material where I'm enjoying watching the show again in English. Absolutely. I can't wait for the second season. I think it will improve on the first. and he's got a new show on Netflix.

20:46Now, I had initially started this as, this is the problem with Netflix. They don't tell us about these things, like where was the trailer, where was the drumbeat from the critically acclaimed creator of Libero. Did a little bit of reading into this, although it was hard to come by. And it does seem like Rashad has had, he's got a production company called Maui, and over the last couple of years has shepherded or, you know, kind of co-created or co-executive produced or whatever, several shows, some of which, like there's one that's on Disney Plus, I believe. And that like, it's, this is not like the first thing he has done, you know, since the Bureau went off the air or anything.

21:27Andy Greenwald:Just to interject, like, I do think the reason we're talking about him is because it's for the same reason we talked about Pluribus. In the sense that like when people who've created truly great art within this medium that we cover do the next thing, it's worth our attention and time. And then, so I, like I said, I got an email in our inbox about Bandy. I saw that it was the number seven and now number eight show on Netflix. I was sort of surprised that I hadn't heard about what it was. Doing a little bit of research into it, it's created by Rashad and his daughter. Yeah, Capucine. Capucine. And it is, in his own words, self-consciously, an effort on his part to make something in the top boy, Peaky Blinders Netflix genre.

22:09of sprawling crime drama, intergenerational, one family moving through a cityscape. So obviously Top Boy set in London, Peaky Blinders set in Birmingham. This is set in Martinique and is about the Le Fleur family, a rather large family in Martinique.

22:28Andy Greenwald:11 kids, ranging from like 6 or 7 to early 20s. Who are grappling with a family tragedy and deciding where to go with the family in terms of the legitimacy of their family business. There's a central kid played... There's a central kid named Killian, I believe. Kiki. Kiki, whose street name is Malord. And he is getting into the drug business and finding out about the international drug trade out of Martinique. I watched the first episode last night. You checked it out this morning. What did you think? Yeah, first of all, making a TV show with your daughter? Come on. goals. That's so sweet. So I'm already all the way in.

23:13What if you were like, I don't like this kind of nepotism and I won't even watch the show?

23:18Andy Greenwald:What if I was like that? Do you want me to do the rest of the show in character? No, but if it was his son, would you be like, God, I'm not so into this? I did just feel my whole self go cold. Just completely lost interest. I found, well, big picture, I think, incredibly exciting any time Netflix's budget and cameras go to a place that we don't spend a lot of time. Absolutely. And so the show looks beautiful. It's in Martinique, a place that I would like to spend more time in. And it is taking us in back streets and homes and bars and just bringing a place to life in the way that international crime fiction can do and international crime television can do that I found really, really exciting.

24:01Andy Greenwald:I think they've managed to find some really exciting charismatic actors, at least even through just one episode. Many non-professional actors. Yeah, and I am intrigued. I would say that for people who are hearing all of our raves about it, I would reset expectations just to say that one of the things about Liburo that was really, really remarkable over time is Rashaun's, again, not unlike, this is the one thing that I would compare to Vince Gilligan, very, very interested in minutiae and bureaucracy and process. and so the show is very A to B to C to D about introducing a huge swath of characters in a place we've never been and a lot of the potential is ahead.

24:42So it really does a yeoman-like job

24:45Andy Greenwald:of setting the groundwork for something that could be interesting but I'll say that I didn't find this episode to be like I didn't feel energized and exhilarated at the end of it. There's not a lot of wit or surprise or verve what there is is a lot of solid story building and a lot of promising leads and a canvas that I would like to see him fill. In the first episode, if you watch a lot of criminal underworld TV or even a fair amount, a lot of very familiar meets. A lot of one brother who is going one direction and another brother who's going another. There's the sort of mysterious drug lord who takes Malord under his wing.

25:24There is a lot of just basically like you know mechanics that you would be familiar with if you've watched like power if you've watched a top boy or whatever it is i think that um the thing that jumped out at me wasn't really and this isn't really a critique because i think it's a really interesting gambit but i do think that working with a lot of non-professional actors puts the show at a little bit of a disadvantage if it's also going to be a little bit cliche in its story yeah now that being said like if you watched the first episode of the Bureau, you might say like, this is a lot, like a lot of spy shows I've seen before and obviously a change.

26:01So I'm going to keep checking out episodes of Bandy, but yeah, it was a little bit of a letdown in so much as I had five minutes of knowing it existed before I checked it out. And then it was like, Oh, okay, maybe this isn't like on the level of the Bureau yet or whatever. And maybe that's not the intention.

26:18Andy Greenwald:You know, it also is a show, you know, with the other thing that we might be responding to slightly, I think everything we've said about it is probably that's the top line headline and is valid. But I do think that we are still, despite our interest in international shows, we are increasingly unused to seeing pilots that don't have to make the case for themselves within the first 50 minutes. This is a episode of television that was clearly written knowing there were going to be seven more and potentially 20 to 30 to 40 more due to his stature or due to his confidence. I mean, it hasn't been renewed, but but what pilots are required to do these days in this country, in this industry, is set off the entire sky full of fireworks like the pits had to do last night.

27:01Yeah, like Paradise had to do.

27:02Andy Greenwald:And yes, and then it leaves everyone who's making the show being like, well, now what's the series? Because I burned it all in the first 56 minutes. This show does not burn it all in the first 56 minutes, and I respect that. I was going to mention that there is still talk that he is going to return to the world of espionage in a 2025 interview. I read with Rashad, he was talking about a show called Secret World, I believe, that he was working on, which was going to be about agents from five different countries. But he spoke very eloquently in this interview about how the paradigm of spy fiction and spy stories has essentially shifted and is changing almost faster than a TV show can capture.

27:49And that, you know, like essentially, you know, if you went back six months and were like, what's the state of AI last October, you know, in October versus today, it would be so different. And even the global, you know, the global stage and the changes that have happened in the Middle East, like it would be very difficult to document that or to reflect that in a TV show. So I think he's maybe not struggling with it, but is adjusting to it.

28:15Andy Greenwald:I mean, it was interesting. I think now five, six years ago, he had a pilot. The China Room, right? It's called the Chinese Room that was going to be a return to the spy world. Yeah. And it didn't get made for whatever reason. That was a peacock? I think that, I'm not sure if it was ever set up a peacock, but I know it was being passed around. But the script was floating around, yeah. And one of the reasons he was doing it is because, you know, you could see in each season of Le Bureau, he was like the aperture kept getting wider as he was both realizing and engaging with shifting tides in the world.

28:46Andy Greenwald:And the antagonists kept changing and who was actually behind it and who was ascendant in the world. And he hadn't really dealt with China's role in global espionage. So he was going to write a show about it. The brilliance of the show was to interconnect like Russia and Syria and Iran. Yeah. So I hope we hear more from him. I think that to that point, and more from him in the spy space, but to that point, this is a subtle detail, But one thing that I appreciated in the Bandi pilot is that the fact that all characters have cell phones is a part of the story in a way that doesn't feel intrusive.

29:18Andy Greenwald:Time and time again, you will see pilots or probably movies, too, where the writers are like, I yearn for a world where characters weren't constantly on their phones. Thus, I will create it on screen except for the time my one character has to call the other character. Yes. And so you feel that artificiality. Sometimes it can be fine and you don't notice it, but it's important, I think, to notice when it's done relatively casually and normally and easily. It feels very baked into the world. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something?

29:55Like a last-minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when Prime's same-day delivery has your back. getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. That's it for news. The Madison has been renewed for a third season. I thought I'd mention that to you.

30:25Andy Greenwald:Congratulations on your lobbying work behind the scenes on that. Yes, K Street really came through for me. T.S. Street, I believe. let's get to the pit finale i think we should it's a pretty big show one of the reasons why i wasn't tripping over myself to get to it is i loved it but it also felt a bit like uh it was reiterating some of the stuff that had been saying over the last three weeks rather than breaking any new ground probably for the best i don't know that ending on a cliffhanger or you know i don't know how many more fireworks this this show could have literally um let's start with robbie's darkness, which has been obviously a growing concern over the course of the whole season, but especially in the last couple of weeks with his conversations with Dana, especially with Duke, and in this episode with Abbott concerning whether or not he is considering taking his own life, what the purpose of this quote unquote spirit quest is going to be, his helmetless trip to the Dakotas.

31:24I thought this was an interesting place to start for this would just be did you note or feel like he changed, he moved the goal post a little bit in what he was saying because to Duke, previous week he had said everything in the hospital makes sense to me it's everything outside of the hospital that I can't deal with, then to Abbott, he was like every time somebody dies in this hospital a piece of myself or a piece of my soul dies too so So what was your read on that, if you noticed it? And where are you at with where Robbie ends?

31:58Andy Greenwald:He also says, and I thought this was worth noting too, he says that every good thing he's ever done for the world is in the hospital, is in this hospital. I thought, well, broadly speaking, I really love the finale and I really love engaging with the show both for what's on the screen and what I can't help but kind of try to mind read are the logistics and conversations and decision-making that is happening behind the scenes in terms of what to push forward and what to pull back on. And this shows, I think, pretty active engagement due to its quick turnaround time with its audience and knowing what they might expect and how they could still surprise us.

32:37Andy Greenwald:Broadly speaking, it is a bold gambit to build a season this way. That having educated us on one season about the craziest, most violent day in the history of the emergency department, probably, condition us for something similar and then kind of have that not really be the case. It's a day from hell for any number of reasons, but the long night of the soul is really internal and it's Robbie's dark night of the soul. One of the downstream effects of that decision is that as things get quieter and we get closer and more tied to Robbie's head, we start to notice some things, good and bad. And one of the potentially bad things is that he does have a version of the same conversation two to four times.

33:19Andy Greenwald:Yes. I couldn't help but notice that. You also couldn't help but notice then that the show kind of asserted the primacy of this character, which is not a surprise and actually works for the show. If you watch the show under the impression that it is somehow an ensemble piece, I advise you to take a look at the series season posters for season one and two, both of which are pretty much one man's face. Yeah. But the downstream effects of that are that some characters get nice little buttons on their season and some closure. Um, some, some characters get used for, um, shock value, not in a bad way again, but like what's her name checking out early for boundaries and, uh, joy, joy, checking out early for boundaries or Jesse getting arrested by ice.

34:03Andy Greenwald:Um, but then you also get things and we could probably put a pin in this and come back to it. But Dr. Mohan's goodbye essentially being all about Robbie. My one note about that was lovely scene. If they had not made a giant public announcement that she was leaving the show, I would not have thought of that as her last scene. Exactly. ultimately I really really respect the gambit what they did with the season and I thought they landed it in a way that felt um slightly surprising but ultimately right and the reason I say that is that when we live like in our real lives even those of us who are anxious and have like prone to catastrophizing thoughts the worst worst things the most violent horrible hideous things often don't happen and what you have to deal with is the margins and dealing with what your day-to-day is, the nature of the show means that at least one to ten times per episode, the worst, most hideous, violent things happen in the margins, on the operating table or what have you.

35:01Andy Greenwald:So what the show can do then is force Robbie to live with the margins of that, talk about other people's death and what it's doing to him, flirt with the idea of driving a motorcycle off a cliff like a buffalo, but really be stuck with himself and his best intentions, caring for a baby, and his worst intentions, yelling at Dr. Alashimi. So to your point about it being the Robbie show towards the end of this season, I thought that that's why the Alashimi confrontation was better than just reiterating her or further explaining her situation, her condition, which is she has historically had seizures, but through treatment has been able to get them under control, but experiences two on this her first day as the senior attending at the ED to take over for Robbie in his absence.

35:51Andy Greenwald:And the implication for that is that we saw at least one of them on camera with the baby. She had one with baby Jane Doe and that she had one when she was looking at the kid who needed to be put in the... Yes, and he caught that one. And he caught that one and kind of like sharks around the ED until he can get to the bottom of it. But it's her confession to him. It's her showing him her medical history, and he's just like, Bron, is this you? And then they have this nice conversation at first, although Robbie is starting to be like, it seems like you're trying to talk me into how this is all okay.

36:25And at the end of the day, she's like, so we're good. My neurologist said, I need to just try this different medication. And he's like, we're not good. You can't be in the attending here if you can't do procedures because you can't always have another attending with you, which now explains maybe why she was like, I've decided we need two seniors on staff all the time. During their big fight that they have in that moment, she says, like, you're making this all about you. Like, you're so, like, narcissistic, essentially. And this is kind of an interesting thing that's happened over the last couple of weeks, and I can't help but also bring in a little bit of the outer pit discourse about, like, Robbie as a good or bad man or boss because I don't really like let that affect how I watch the show at all but it's the show's right on the line of giving us enough of other people's opinions about Robbie within the world of the show to have some distance from Robbie as a character while we watch it versus we're just watching this guy and it's like if it's just more guys like Robbie we're in charge of the world we'd just all be a better place and you know so a couple of people are like you're a dick or you need help or you're a narcissist but the show is about this guy holding a baby at the end of it and being like you know what i mean like it's about robbie so it's like right up against like whose pov are we seeing this guy through i think it's a really good point to

37:51Andy Greenwald:make but i think the show is more subtle than critics might suggest in i mean it's certainly not subtle in some ways when it does direct to camera address. I don't know if you know this. So Robbie says, the only things I can control are in this room and that the human stuff is impossible for him. We see it in practice when a pregnant woman arrives in preeclampsia and distress and says, I don't want any medical care. I don't want any medical intervention. Here's what I believe. Here's what I want. And then as soon as she starts seizing, the doctors can doctor. You know, which is not presented as like a great outcome.

38:30Andy Greenwald:It's an incredibly tense and dramatic scene, but it is an example. That scene is crazy. So crazy. And we should talk about it just on its own merits. But I'm just saying the show knows what it's doing when it gives them a chance for things to get easy for them when it gets hard. And the show is also being its best self, I think, when it ends with Robbie holding the baby and telling the baby that the baby is going to be fine, that everything's okay, and that the baby's going to have a lot of love in her life. And I will say this is something that I've said as a parent. I'm sure Eric Roshant has said this to Kapusine, his screenwriting daughter.

39:07Andy Greenwald:Yeah. But he doesn't know that. I've said it to Vijay Edgecombe, and he doesn't know that either. You know, I've just been like my son. I think in that case, you're right. I think you have some certainty that it's going to be fine for him, so maybe you're choosing wisely. I just mean that the illusion of control at the heart of the show is... woven more subtly through the episode than I think the view maxers who are just like, let's pound this might appreciate. The subtle kind of details in Robbie's, like, so here's one thing that I thought was really interesting. The sort of action set piece of this episode is an emergency C-section where the lives of both the mother and the baby, you mentioned this woman who wants to do a wild birth.

39:53Andy Greenwald:She keeps saying it. And has refused all prenatal care and doesn't want any medicine. Ultrasound. Ultrasounds. And Abbott asks her why. And she's like, women have been giving birth for thousands of years. And he's like at a 30 % mortality rate. You know, this is crazy. We have all this stuff for you. She starts seizing. She's pre-eclampsia. At that point, it becomes full eclampsia. I didn't know that. Neither did I, that that was a transition. And all the hitters are in the room. The night shift is rocking out. and Robbie is brought in kind of like as the closer, Edwin Diaz coming out of the bullpen.

40:31And I thought it was interesting.

40:33Andy Greenwald:No Duran? You're wearing the Phillies hat today, but you're still keeping him guessing. You are appealing to all 50 states. He comes in and he sees what's happening and he's obviously been in and out of this room and he kind of has his own seizure. He has his emotional kind of like, I fucking can't make... The last patient I see before God knows what happens to me is going to be the death of a mother and or a newborn. And he has like a moment where they're like, bro, like glove up, let's go. And then what they do is essentially the pit version of the heat bank robbery. I mean, it is the most gripping kind of, you know, stomach turning.

41:17If you, you know, it's among the more visceral things that they've done on this show.

41:23Andy Greenwald:It was a masterpiece of technique. It was like, I was like, I forgot to breathe for two and a half minutes. It was just one of the most. What was your Apgar score after that? That was blue. Low? That was blue. They bring McKay in. It's just an incredible scene, dude. I don't know if you were able to watch it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no. As a girl dad, C-sections are cool. Yeah, if it was like a nine or 12-year-old, I'd be like, I can't watch this. A nine-year-old falls in a pool. You're like, no! It's a sliding window. You know what I mean? I care about what I care about. Yeah. That's how you feel about rookies into the second year player.

41:56Andy Greenwald:You're not interested in G League development, guys. That's right. What did you think of the scene? Oh, I was just going to say, like, they did not put too fine a point on the fact that the very thing that Robbie is sort of saying is happening to Braun, which is you kind of are unable to do procedures, almost happens to him. Yeah, I also just, in that moment, in that moment when I'm just watching the technical brilliance of the people who make this show executing something on such a high level with the choreography of the actors, the performance of the actors, the lighting, the camera movement, the stuff I usually don't even look at or care about, like the, how real does this look?

42:31The viscera, yeah.

42:32Andy Greenwald:Truly, was, it was, it was unmatched. And I also really liked the way, again, like, it's just, it's just these little things that they decided to do, which is, the last two episodes, we will focus very, very intently on one horrific, potentially bad outcome medical scene per episode. Last week it was Langdon resetting the guy's spine. Yeah. And this week it was this birth. And look, it's a five-tool player as a show. They're showing you what they can do in miniature as well as what they've done in the past with chaos. So who do we... Ogilvy lost a patient, the teacher who was really nice. Yeah.

43:13Louis died.

43:14Andy Greenwald:Yep. They had a pretty good game. Well, there's a... Someone lost a leg above the knee. But it could have been worse. Could have been worse. Yeah. Could have been worse. Yeah, so your take on the day was pretty good game, guys. For all the adversity that they faced with the digital stuff. It's true. You know, everybody's really tired. They're charting while they're working and stuff. It's true. Let's talk about the show's relationship with catastrophe. Because one thing that happens over time in any TV show, even not medical ones, is we just feel so close, so much empathy, so connected to characters that we really just want good outcomes for them.

43:50Andy Greenwald:them and we want them to win and often shows start to service the audience as well um i thought one of the smart things that this episode did and i and i don't know i'd be curious to ask if we get the chance to talk to noah again what they how they discuss this in the in the writer's room how how much thought they give to perception what i mean by that is there were a number of moments in this episode where even i i feel like i have a pretty good read on how the show operates but But even I am not immune to being like, Dr. Al Hashimi shouldn't be driving on a roof right now. Yes. This goes back to the old Don and Sally Draper in a car and being like, please, please don't get in an accident.

44:29Andy Greenwald:It goes back further to Diana Moldauer on L.A. Law as Rosalind whatever stepping into an elevator shaft. You know what I mean? And even Mohan being like, well, is that her last scene? She's standing in the ambulance bay and those Ambo drivers get a little wild. They clip the edges sometimes. I'm wondering if that was going to happen. I almost wondered whether or not that, like, the way that that ended left the door open for Supriya Ganesh to come back to the show. Well, I think the doors are always open for characters on the show. Unlike ER, thus far, helicopters aren't falling on them. Yes. You know, like, they are just medical professionals in other cities.

45:03Andy Greenwald:And the show, which is very smart, can be clever about bringing people in and out for short stays, long stays, callbacks, whatever. So I think that that's always, always in play. Even this season, not ultimately that important for the storyline, but something to note that they might consider again is when the night charge nurse shows up at 10 a.m. as a death doula. Or that people have other, like Abbott, people have other jobs. Yeah, they have hobbies. And they can show up as patients as well. The alishimi ending note of her in her car, I thought was very well done. And I thought that that's a character who has not been given a lot of room to kind of stretch out.

45:48She's a very buttoned up character. And I even just like watching her walk out with her headphones in. I was like, this is cool to see this moment with this person. And I thought they were setting it up for Robbie finds her water bottle and is going to go run after her and apologizes to her at the car. Or maybe she does have an episode and he saves her or whatever. So it was interesting that that was not how it ended and that's just basically this woman at a crossroads in her life. As are many of these characters. I was going to mention to you the... Well, I want to talk about Langdon.

46:23Andy Greenwald:Orlando had a bad outcome. what happened to him he fell off something that was too small potentially was kind of flipping about it this is an interesting development over the second season is that you know from from our hawaiian death prayer to there's a dead guy in the waiting room and orlando should have picked a higher place to jump from is like a little bit of a change of tone a little gallows humor uh we talked a little bit about mohan i like i said wouldn't have known that she was leaving unless there had been 5 ,500 articles about it. What do you think about the Greek chorucification of Whitaker, Mel, McKay, and Santos?

47:01And basically keeping them around for three episodes after their shift ends to sit at a computer and banter, but having little to no dramatic arc for any of them. Well, other than Mel's sister, I guess.

47:17Andy Greenwald:I think that's something that I would imagine they are going to try to look at in, they're just finishing the writer's room for season three, but that they are looking at and what to do. Like, Robbie is the main character of the show and he shares that distinction a little bit, I guess, with the ED itself and maybe Dana as one B. There's not a lot of A story real estate to go around on this show. And to that point, making the decision that they, he's now said publicly, which is a much shorter time jump so it does sound like they'll be going from July 4th to winter-ish. Will allow them to pick up these characters more rapidly and thus continue a story maybe that they've established this season.

48:04Andy Greenwald:The attempts to give each one of these smaller characters some individual arc I think was really hit or miss if we're looking back on the course of the season. I think that McKay wanting to have a personal life. Great color, episode to episode. She's giving me a great performance, but I don't think that really landed. Well, they're not going to go out on the date with her, so it's almost like she would have to have left at like 8 o 'clock and been like, I have a date tonight. So you can't do it. Mel being forced to do a second deposition just doesn't really hit for me. I mean, not if we're not going to see the deposition.

48:39Andy Greenwald:Also, what was the case? What are the states? It's the 4th of July. It's the year before where I think her and Ellis did a spinal tap. it's from season one. Oh, it is. Okay, so maybe that's my fault. And Alice was like, I can't talk about what I said, but I want to tell you like you're a good doctor. So that might come back since Alice is now also being upstream to the day shift. Javadi, maybe more successful because also that was the most ER in its small moments way. I think the most ER plot line because one of the challenges ER had was like, how will we keep these characters here? And her becoming an emergency mental like emergency psychiatry.

49:21Andy Greenwald:So she's going to be on the show now. Obviously she's going to be on the show but that locks her in. Yeah. It's like that dude the Pirates just called up and they was like he played two games Connor Griffin and they're like two games like here's a nine year contract. The Tigers just did that too. It's a great time to be 19 in the MLB. That's so sick. You get eight years 150. Did you know that like when did we start this pod? 2012? Like mid 2013 I went to Bill and I was like lock me up. Please. Ten year deal. He was like, no, bet on yourself. Yeah, and look where it got me. Still here waiting for that payday.

49:53If the rule you followed brought you back to me.

49:59Andy Greenwald:Anyway. Yeah, like the difference, I think, with someone like Whitaker is that Whitaker's role really is mini Robbie. So what Robbie does now kind of reflects on him, how he is being a doctor, how he is showing up, what he's... So it's interesting watching the show figure this out. And I genuinely don't, again, with no actual knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes, I really am exhausted by the assumptions by a rabid fandom that there's some conspiracy plot to get rid of Supriya Ganesh and Dr. Mohan. Like, sometimes characters don't take flight, and it's not about the actor. And I'm sure that people involved with the show would never blame her.

50:41Andy Greenwald:they couldn't find a place for this character a place for her to go. Yes. I also, I mean like I enjoy the character I enjoy the performance quite a bit. One of my least favorite things about TV shows is when they're just like and we've also added six more people. Sure. And yet we're going to try and make room for the original six, the new six and all the people in the background. I want to talk a little bit about Langdon who I was a bit surprised got like the arc that he did this season, I suppose. And this is in relationship to the Greek chorucification of those other characters that I mentioned, Santos especially, who I think was much more central to the first season.

51:19And in this season is more like, kind of like over it and also making a lot of jokes, but didn't really have like a huge moment other than her confrontation with Langdon, which I thought was quite good.

51:30Andy Greenwald:But this karaoke erasure will not stand. Because they chickened out and didn't leave the hospital. I wanted to see them rocking out and singing. You clearly turned off the show too fast. Did they go to karaoke after the fireworks? Yes. Oh, I did. I was testing you there. Oh, yeah. How was karaoke? Would she sing? They sing You Oughta Know. Oh, that's good. She and Mel rocking out on stage together. And that's how the season is. That's just a might be. That's accountability. Listen, if the Marvel movies taught you anything, it's stay tuned through the credits. You get a little... Was it Stinger?

52:05Andy Greenwald:Yeah, it said executive producer, and then you heard the music. Oh, come on. Yeah, dude. Yeah. What do you guys want from me? I'm grinding a lot of tape here, you know? You would have seen Conformity Gate, too, if you had just kept it rolling. What's Conformity Gate? Isn't that the Stranger Things episode that came on after the finale? Yes. Well, me and some of my large language models are working on that right now. Some of my large language models. That's what LLM stands for, right? Sure. Type it into Google. I dare you. It's probably something quite, quite obscene. yeah they show karaoke anyway Langdon did not get invited he also took off setting boundaries for himself well actually he doesn't he comes back down has this fight with Robbie I will say for a brief split second I thought that dude was going to have some some dirty work in his pockets when they were like turning their pockets out I was like does this guy have a perk what's going on yeah he did not he did not he was clean and sober and he does his drug test.

53:07Maybe it's a little cocky.

53:09Andy Greenwald:Pun intended. Yeah, I mean, he does his drug test. He goes up. He sees that Mercer Lady lost her leg but saved her life. Yep. Goes back downstairs and pops off at Robbie a little bit. He does. He's had enough. I don't know if that's in the steps. You know what I mean? I don't know if that's part of the program, but he is just like, you don't like, you know, I'm doing the work I came back I showed I belong here but I could have paralyzed that guy like I don't know what kind of teaching method this is now and he's like everybody knows you're on the edge and you need to get help I thought that was decent because one thing that you will notice if you watch the last three episodes is that Robbie has not made much of a secret of his despair you know like he has talked to Duke about it Dana obviously can see it, can obviously see it.

54:03Everybody's talking, you know, about this. What did you think of the Langdon arc and what did you think of that moment with him?

54:10Andy Greenwald:I've decided to double down on my number one criticism of the show, which is that someone's got to fuck his hair up. I've thought, I've done some time, I've done some work. I've done some reflection on how I just called that out a few weeks ago and the reaction it got, frankly, in this room. That's the least important thing I could possibly care about. And I've decided it does matter. and I hope that the powers that be listen to this note because this man just worked 15 hours through savage back pain which he is treating with And also showed up wearing a Pittsburgh Penguins hat. Right, which would have had an effect on the, look, I just want to see that he's been through the day that we've seen him go through.

54:50Andy Greenwald:Everyone else, they look a little bit worse for wear. Not him, looks amazing. Okay, hair. I would say I'm done. I turned off the episode after that. No, I think that the worst tendencies of the pit are the fact that within the structure that they've created and the way that they have to process time and story, that when the tide goes out and suddenly characters have a brief moment to talk, there's almost too much pressure on that moment to deliver something that feels as natural and humanistic as much of the rest of the show when it's at its normal cadence. That happened last week when Whitaker popped off at Langdon all of a sudden.

55:35Andy Greenwald:And was it consistent with how he probably was feeling based on what we've seen? Sure, but we've never seen them talk to each other like that. And it felt kind of jarring. I felt similarly about this scene. It was meaningful. It had to happen. It was foreshadowed appropriately when Robbie realizes that he wanted to say something to him before he left and asked Dana where he went. It was better dramatically that it wasn't another learning hug at the end of the season. It gives us somewhere else to go. But also in the flow of the episode, as it was delivered to us, it was another one-on-one scene where someone tells Robbie a version of, you need help, man.

56:11Yeah.

56:11Andy Greenwald:And we've had a couple of those. It was a different tenor. It was a different relationship. Yeah, we've had screaming. We've had take accountability. We've had you're a narcissist. We've had you've got to like embrace the darkness. like we've had hugs and I thought it was actually like on in a total a really amazing portrait of the importance of like talking to people and the importance of like you know in some way I think that this episode or this season has been Robbie's cry for help and it seems like it's been heard a fair amount I thought the conversely I thought the Abbott scene was pretty spectacular yeah man those two guys blacking out in that scene he's incredible and it's the right level of intensity and guys don't talk about feelings but also some jokes but also but maybe guys do talk about feelings if they save two lives and like just dump a bunch of pads inside of an empty stomach you know what I mean?

57:09Andy Greenwald:I wondered if you were going to ask about that like that's just like that's the crazy shit with doctoring where like they'll be like oh we have to do all this elaborate like don't do this to the vein and like move that and like we're going to do this crazy laser underneath. And then one part of it would be like, shove a ton of gauze into this guy's gut and let's see if we can stop the bleeding. And I'm like, that is what they did during the Civil War. Like you guys have to have developed different fucking techniques. Okay, now to be fair, they did not have gauze in the Civil War. Like we don't even have starting pitchers anymore.

57:39Why are you guys still pumping gauze into people's stomachs? I also thought it's a little... And where did they get it out?

57:46Andy Greenwald:That's what I was going to say. Did it dissolve? No, it's a little bit of a fun game for the friends upstairs. Yeah, that guy is like, find my gauze. You texted me 12 minutes ago. What the fuck happened down here? And also, where's all my gauze? Can I reuse it? I really liked, I liked when Abbott, I liked the Abbott line about I'm your emergency contact and I do not want to be contacted. I thought that was a great line and I just thought the way that they spoke to it. Am I your emergency contact? Uh-huh. Cool. We'll find out. I guess we're gonna find out. I got a motorcycle trip coming out. You're gonna cut your brakes just to see.

58:24Andy Greenwald:What if you got a call being like, thank God we've reached you. You're Andy's emergency contact. HIPAA laws prohibit us telling you much, but his entire midsection is bursting with gauze. I feel like it sounds like you guys saved him. It sounds like you got it. And then you'd be like that George Bush meme. You're like, now watch this drive.

58:46We got probably, it sounds like a six month time jump coming. So, it'll be interesting to see whether that is geared both because they want to get some autumnal slash winter disasters going. But, you know, maybe we can get like a hockey rink kind of situation. Whatever. Yeah.

59:06Andy Greenwald:Penguins. But also, like, that would put Al Hashimi and Robbie on track to be back if they want to do that. Great season. Do you feel... Really loved it. Last thing. I you know there's two two types of discourse that I well there's many types of discourse that I don't like but the purposes of the show one that I really have no time for is to like give this man all the Emmys now but the second one I also don't like is this blank spinoff when that said this show is just heaving for a night shift but like it is this episode when not only does it let Abbott takes center stage, but he is leading his crew in a bespoke chant saying that they are nightcrawlers.

59:51This is my one prediction for season three is in the same way that they did, Abbott shows up briefly in the first half of the season and then runs like the last three or four is a much bigger presence. I do wonder if we get like three episodes, four episodes of Abbott and Ellis finishing a shift.

1:00:09Andy Greenwald:Yeah, I think we should, I think it would be great to start at 3 a.m. brought up to main cast. And then that would be like, that would be really interesting. If day shift has to come in and like whatever, what could happen in the morning, like a big tractor trailer accident out there outside of Pittsburgh. I don't think this can happen or will happen for a variety of like specific production-based reasons. But it has definitely at least been floated that if they could get the timing right, they could run the pit all year by alternating use of the set, by having a day shift. Could you handle that?

1:00:49Andy Greenwald:As a viewer? Yeah. I mean, I think it wouldn't really serve anyone other than potentially future, you know, owner of the hospital, David Ellison. Like, I don't, I think, like, just in terms of the bastardization of story and attention, it's probably not worth it. But could I handle it? Yeah, like, I actively, I feel quite sad that that was the finale, because I enjoy this job, but I also just enjoy having a show like that to watch. It's unique. It's close to the feeling of one of those monocultural shows that we know and love, where I feel like anticipation for the moment that I'm going to turn it on and excitement to talk about it afterwards.

1:01:33Andy Greenwald:And just eagerness to turn it off, apparently, even before it ends. That's my bad. I thought when I got to R. Scott Jemmel, I'm all clear. The dulcet tones of Alanis Morissette. I'm going to start putting fake stinger podcast moments where I'm just like, after you've left, I'm going to be like. You should. During the credits. Let's do Top Chef for a few minutes here. Okay. So that was the pit finale. Thumbs up. From the pit hospital to the barbecue pit. That's right. Spoilers for Top Chef. And I will say we're going to get a little bit granular here about Top Chef as a production. So spoilers also for Last Chance Kitchen.

1:02:15Yeah, we have to. I begin at the end. Is that okay? Do what you need to do. What happened? What happened there? So Seeger loses on the show itself. Yep. You can debate whether or not like his, was he falling on his sword? Was he making some great hero move to like cook the whole hog himself and stay up all night and cook the toughest part of the pig? I don't know enough about pigs to tell you, you know, like there was I thought Lawrence did a great job. There was some good looking dishes, but for the most part, this seemed like a very difficult challenge. Yeah. And also a complicated one in so much as it was two teams, a captain.

1:02:56but then there was you know Justin's cooking but with like Jen's milk bread that everybody seemed to love yada yada Seeger loses I wouldn't say he lost like entirely gracefully he seems a little bit like see you fucking soon dog you know to everybody they go to Last Chance Kitchen and Tom is like basically like I can't explain what's going on but we don't have a challenger for Rhoda today

1:03:21Andy Greenwald:all will be revealed in next week's main episode he says basically so So the operating theory seems to be that next week. There's two main, there's two potential outcomes. Yeah, go for it. Jen will have to drop out of the competition before even a quick fire starts. And because of that, and because she's sort of been on warning about like, you have to compete if you're going to be here. 65 game rule. They will pull her from the competition and Seager will automatically go back in. Because he was the last one eliminated. What's the other theory? The other theory is that he threw a hissy fit and said, you guys all suck.

1:03:58Andy Greenwald:I'm out of here. I'm not going to do your funny little after show, which has only ever happened one other time. Oh, really? The guy with the hat who got eliminated first the season, two seasons ago, David, I think, he made like garbage pizza was his business. No offense, but I think his business was literally like, you know, I'm - Pizza but with everything on it. No, pizza with like scraps that other restaurants throw away. Oh, yeah, yeah. He was like dumpster diving, right? Mm-hmm. And he didn't go to Last Chance Kitchen? No. All right. Look at your face. You like people who compete. It's incredible.

1:04:28Andy Greenwald:This really got your blood out. I could see both happening. And I definitely already... I mean, people do receive what's known as the villain edit often in reality shows. And I express my displeasure at Seeger's attitude towards the children previous week. Yes. For example, I don't think he would like the show Bandy at all because he's not interested in people who collaborate with adult children. but I also felt like the Top Chef is as far from the most people's baseline understanding of reality TV as it can get I think it doesn't really go for soap operatics yeah it doesn't indulge in a lot of like interpersonal dramas and stuff like that mostly especially in the last I don't know 15 seasons just generally uninterested in that and I think that's to its credit that said whether it's the edit or just the guy himself Seeger was incredibly unlikable over these last two weeks I felt his like the way that it was cutting to him.

1:05:23Andy Greenwald:I mean, one fun thing this season is I am watching it with my kids and like them not really yet knowing the rhythms of a show in which they don't understand that if you get the interview where they talk about their family or background, that means they're either winning or losing. Yeah. And you don't know which. Yes. So the way that Seeger was like, you know, I've trained with Rodney Scott and I've done all these things was setting him up to lose. But like TV can reveal things even if, you know, it's not necessarily a malicious edit. and he was so tight and so resentful and angry about how things should be done that he was definitely set himself up to failure and set up for a potential.

1:05:59Andy Greenwald:I believe his final interview in this episode didn't look like other final interviews have been. Like he seemed to be in a different space that potentially this was done. And that could be either because he bailed or because he had to film that talking headpiece separate from the normal talking headpiece because of whatever had happened. Yeah, I don't know exactly. I'd be curious to know, but maybe they wouldn't tell us about when they shoot Last Chance Kitchen in relationship to the episodes. I think in times it has been like this person walked out of an elimination and into Last Chance Kitchen.

1:06:30Andy Greenwald:I've also heard that there have been seasons in which they shoot Last Chance Kitchen over a course of like two days closer to the end of production. Interesting. If you are on a show like this. So it's basically like before they go, like it's basically like you win Last Chance Kitchen over the course of two days and go right back into the regular show. I believe that's right. It catches you up to that point. Right. Everyone who signs up for the show is committed to like a blackout. They have to be there for those four to six weeks. But like theoretically, like Nana could have to sit in Last Chance Kitchen for two weeks or something like that.

1:07:02Yeah, or just sit in the hotel. Yeah, exactly.

1:07:05Andy Greenwald:The strangeness in Last Chance Kitchen did create a pretty fun. I mean, I kind of liked the chaos of it because Tom was clearly like, I don't know what's going on. And then the nature of the challenge that they had come up with was so bizarre and specific. And like he made them put duck heads into everything. But I also kind of liked the fact that there were two chefs there who were eliminated. And he was just like, just come and try to win money. Yeah. I thought that was cool. I thought it was cool. I thought it just spoke to perhaps a flaw in the engineering of the television show, like in the production itself, if like, depending on when they're shooting this and whatever.

1:07:40And like, just the fact that you leave an episode of TV and you're like, I don't really understand what happened, but not on a cliffhanger way, more in a like, Tom seems unprepared for what's just happened. Did you have any other big notes from the show itself?

1:07:53Andy Greenwald:Another great challenge and what's been a good season. I really like that they made them do something incredibly specific and hard. There was no quick fire. It was a whole hog cook all night. People went a little nuts staying up all night. I definitely, who do you, like, what do you think is easier? Neither is easy. But do you think it's easier to stay up all night and then plate a delicious, you know, hog dish or stay up essentially all night and then deliver a baby and save a mother suffering from eclampsia? the question is is like have you ever done the like my flight is so early i'm just gonna stay up all night no i can't do that yeah that's that's the i i i think in any situation i would be like i'm gonna go get a couple hours of sleep somewhere yeah like my brain needs to shut down for a second so i would rather personally just for the just for the memories do the c-section you know that's not where i thought you were gonna go but i could be the gauze guy because it's like it just seems like that's just like put a bunch of gauze in the stomach.

1:08:53Andy Greenwald:Did you, first of all, you're saying - Do you think there's technique to that? People don't know this about you.

1:08:59Edge come up and under.

1:09:01Andy Greenwald:You could be like, did you see the video of the kid who sunk the half court for 10 grand at the Sixers game? And then fucking Maxie and PG came out to him. That's you? Even longtime listeners probably don't understand that there was a period about 20 years ago when you had spent a lot of time watching House MD and thus sort of fancied yourself a bit of an amateur medicine man. And anytime anyone was slightly ill or perhaps hungover, your suggestion was a towel of indeterminate temperature. Yeah, sometimes cold, sometimes hot. We'd turn to you like the wise sachem and be like, Chris, I'm suffering from these ailments.

1:09:35Andy Greenwald:And you'd be like, hot towel around the neck. I don't think that was from House. You don't think? I think I was watching House, but I think it was more just like, I need you to rally. That's probably true too. it's probably true too speaking of sports yeah switch it I'm wearing Eagles green and that's what I want to talk to you about my wardrobe choices last night during the Sixers play-in game oh yeah first of all I thought I found you very quiet yesterday and not particularly chatty with me that's fine these days happen but I didn't think that you were like engaging with me you know do you want to talk about that?

1:10:13no that was fine because that's not abnormal. What I didn't like is that when Zach and I were texting about the Sixers' incredible performance against the Orlando Magic, the only sporting event that anyone cared about that last night, you were like, you guys are so loyal. Yeah. And I was like, don't fucking do that. No, I... This is a safe space where we talk about our obsessions and our fandom and you're like, you guys really like the Sixers. And I was like, are you being held for fucking ransom? Like, what is going on? I'm kind of, my heart has been bruised too much.

1:10:52Andy Greenwald:I'm kind of in prove-it mode with them. It's Wednesday night. What were you doing? Well, clearly I had a full day. And the fact that it's driving you crazy, you don't know what I did yesterday. No, it's okay. It's okay. I was monitoring the situation. But I think that you are always such an ebullient, like, gregarious fan. You're just like, guys, hello, brothers. What Philly sporting event is happening today? You're like, you guys like this shit, huh? First of all, it was a bit of a brushback pitch because I have definitely sent a disproportionate share of Andrew Painter texts slash do you think we're going to get Kenyon Sadiq at 23 texts?

1:11:35Andy Greenwald:And frankly, some crickets. Some mock draft content I sent your way. No one responded to it. That was Barnwell being like, this won't happen, but what if it did? First of all, it wasn't Barnwell. It was NBCSportsPhiladelphia.com. So click the link. Anyway. This is why journalism is collapsed. This is why. You're like, it's probably Bill Barnwell. I love Barnwell, but I was like, I saw that on ESPN.com and I was like, this is speculative. You didn't even see it. Yeah. You don't even know the fantasy situation that I was sharing with you for no reason on a Tuesday at 3 p.m. Okay. the fucking Sixers man like come on come on you don't understand it's Jekyll and Hyde man I do understand and every time it's Jekyll and when Joe is out there it's like watching a brontosaurus like move across a pasture and you're just like this is not fun but when it's Vijay and Maxie and playoff P I know but you're still trusting here's the thing I love Dr.

1:12:34Andy Greenwald:Jekyll I am a patient of Dr. Jekyll I make appointments to see Dr. Jekyll and then while he's examining me I'm like you want to hang out sometime? Yeah. I've gotten too close to Dr. Jekyll. Do you know what Dr. Jekyll is like when you get too close to him? Is Dr. Jekyll Joel Embiid in this? No it's the fucking team because then I'm like maybe this team has a chance then Paul George is suspended for taking drugs? Yes. And then I'm like hey Dr. Jekyll you're looking good again. Do you know what I think about that? And then Dr. Jekyll's like oh my appendix is just burst before the playoffs have begun.

1:13:10Andy Greenwald:I don't have the... Okay. I'm battered. I'm old. I don't want you to ever think that when I don't respond to your draft, your deep, deep, deep draft lore, that it's anything about like... It's not that I don't find it interesting. But I guess what I should do is be like, you sure do read a lot. I do. I read a lot of New York Review of Books content. Like the great Nancy Lemon book that I'm reading, The Lives of the Saints, New Orleans in the 80s. Come on. You're going to love this book. I also read a lot of draft content. Yeah. I'm very excited about the upcoming NFL draft. I have a take too hot for you.

1:13:50Andy Greenwald:Before we go to that, I would also say that the reason why I was particularly salty about the Sixers is because I did peek in on our fight and fills. Oh, yeah. And it's just. Yeah. Hey, you know what they say? Don't even check the standings until game 60. It's all noise. It's no signal. Who says that? The rates and barrels guy at the athletic podcast. Whoa. And they were like, don't even worry about it until game 60. It's like, yeah, you could have a disaster season and at game 60, you might not be in it. But yeah, it's all noise. The signal doesn't start till game 60. Okay. Yeah. That's very calm.

1:14:22Yeah.

1:14:23Andy Greenwald:I love that. Do we have a rule about that for television shows? Because I've never found it. No. I mean, that's the problem with TV is that I'm not hanging out till game 60. It's too long. Yeah. You know, I honestly like I'll be completely honest is we're doing after dark. I realize why I don't like reading reviews is that if I get warned off a show I'm not really looking forward to the prospect of watching 8 hours of beef if it's not good I'll watch anything that's a bad movie, I don't give a shit Oh, for sure, it's a time thing But it's just like 8 hours of something that doesn't work out and is kind of not focused but who knows, maybe the critics are wrong and maybe we are the critics that matter It's possible, or maybe we are going to turn vegan from it What's your hot draft take?

1:15:06I can't share it on a recording. What? I mean, I will share it, but then we have to cut it. I'll be completely honest with you. Sorry, don't mean to offend anybody. Beep this. This is going to be great. But when... That was my draft take, and we didn't include it in the podcast because...

1:15:25Andy Greenwald:Daniel Jeremiah could never. Thanks to Andy Greenwald. I thought you did a really good job today. Thank you, but I am just rookie numbers compared to what you've done today. Sarah, Kaya, Kai thank you so much for being here and thank you so much for witnessing my last pod if that tape ever gets out and we'll be back on Monday. Euphoria, beef Margo's Got Money Problems. Oh it's a big show for us. Yeah. Big show. Big, big, big show. And we'll talk about since I didn't realize you were so swayed by reviews, how engaged you are with Euphoria season 3. The reviews? Well no you just were like, rune reviews are bad I don't want to watch it.

1:16:00Andy Greenwald:Now you're like, it's Levinson time. Big Sam coming through Nobody has his finger on the pulse Of young America more Yeah Honestly you got a point there Also I keep going along for the ride I love it Thank you for riding shotgun with me See you guys on Monday