Are We Being Lied To? The Wellness Scandal

0:26Race the rudders! The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit Strayer.edu slash Jack Welch MBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Shev and as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street North in Arlington, Virginia. Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are your hosts.

1:08I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we've created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. And I'm just going to say, I think we've got the juiciest episode yet. I'm going to call this a scandal episode. It is literally a scandal. Biggest one yet. Here we go. I know. I'm so excited. But before we get into it, I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for a few weeks. Now, we have been number two in the charts and it just means we're reaching so many more people.

1:43And we are so, so, so grateful for that. Exactly. It just means that we know that people are listening and hopefully we're making a little bit of a difference in your lives, as well as it is therapy for Ella and I as well. The Scandal episode really is like, I've never been more excited to talk to you. But anyway, please do keep rating, reviewing, sharing with friends, popping on your social media because we want to make this accessible, pressure off, fun, take on wellness as available as possible to as many people as possible. Exactly. So Ella, come on, give us this juicy headline today. What's coming up in today's show?

2:17Okay. A viral health trend's putting 24 million people at risk. We have got supplements that don't contain anything that they say they contain. The government policy that was scrapped after lobbying from food giants. And then some positive stuff. The£2.50 dried fruit with major heart and gut health benefits. Why saunas are going mainstream. Is that a trend worth following? And a brilliant excerpt from Julia Stiles on healing her relationship with food.

2:46OK, so just before we cut into the episode, Ella, I've got the most incredible feedback. So I've actually found it on our listeners' Insta story and she tagged us in it. And I thought this was a really nice thing to play to you all. So I'm making my way back to London and I have parked at a service station as far away from the entrance as I possibly can. I'm trying my best to move my body more and get more steps into my day. And a friend a few weeks ago recommended an incredible podcast to me. It's called The Wellness Scoop. You've probably already heard about it. It's Emma Mills of Deliciously Ella and Rhiannon Lambert.

3:25I think she runs this amazing Instagram account called Retrition. I'm now following her. And I'm learning so much about how to look after my body, how to move more, about nutrition. But it's advice that is not condescending. It is easy to understand. So if you are into wellness... So basically, she was saying we're not condescending, which I'm really glad because I really hope we try to be really, really fair and non-judgmental and that she parked deliberately because of our podcast at the back of the train station. I just love it, honestly. Yeah, we both, there's a lot going on this week. We are shooting the cover for our new book.

4:03We've done this massive, I've spent 18 months working on its collaboration with this amazing brand for a huge cookware and kitchenware range. We're shooting all of that. Got to try and finish the cookbook, all the rest of it. And then when you get things like this, this kind of feedback you think goodness me I am so glad to be working so much because getting through to people that's what it's all about oh Ella it's so so lovely isn't it honestly guys and it's just been very very busy for Ella and I and I think everybody's in the same boat I feel like May and June as months in general are really hectic because people are trying to wrap things up before the summer and I finished my audiobook I can't believe I'm two weeks out Ella from my book coming out.

4:40So exciting. It's exciting and nerve wracking, I think. But I wanted to share one little thing for everybody. Now, everyone listening, I think you'll have gathered by now that I can be quite sensitive. And whenever I'm driving my car, and especially in country areas, very sadly, if I see an animal by the side of the road, you know, it can affect my whole day, I will see it and I feel quite traumatized by it. And I'm sure I can't be the only one. This is a very random subject to bring up on the wellness scoop but it has a purpose because I don't think people will know this if it's a badger there's something called the badgers trust and in the UK if you see a badger by the side of the road that's been hit you contact the badgers trust it's very easy you quickly just say where you were you can call them or submit it online and they send someone out to check there's not a set nearby so it's not a mummy badger or a baby badger just to look after our badgers because they need to be protected and I didn't know that and it's so reassuring to know it's such a random recommendation but honestly I contacted the Badgers Trust last week it just made me feel better about my day knowing that if this mummy that had sadly passed by the side of the road had left babies they're going to be checked on.

5:48You're such a good person okay and you have another rec for us this week that I have now jumped on and wanted to put a bigger emphasis on the show notes because it was fantastic tell us about it. So I was on the aeroplane on the way with the kids and I don't have a tablet or anything for myself because I gave it to the kids. So I downloaded Elizabeth Day's podcast because I saw she had Julia Stiles on it. Her podcast is How to Fail and Julia Stiles was opening up to the pressures that women feel in society about body image in particular and I was obsessed with Save the Last Dance. Obviously she's iconic, she's been in so many things.

6:24Is it Riviera the most recent one or this program that she'd done on Netflix somewhere. But basically, it was a good listen, Ella. Really, really just hammered home that everybody feels the pressure to be thin. A hundred percent. So I saw Rhi put this in the show notes and I listened to it straight away. And if you guys haven't listened to Elizabeth Day's podcast, it's called How to Fail. And she basically has well-known people in and they will talk about a series of failures in their life and reflect on them and what they learned. And Julia Stiles' third failure was quote unquote hating her body in her 20s.

6:59And she just reflected on it in a way that I thought was so relevant for us to talk about today. Because what she was saying was she didn't have an official eating disorder, but her relationship with food was still restrictive and controlling. And she felt this constant stress to maintain a certain size, always wondering, what if I gain weight? And she said she couldn't help but developed therefore this disordered mindset around it. And she's just talking about the expectations to fit into sample sizes, the unspoken pressure to look a certain way as a woman. And obviously she's operating in Hollywood.

7:34And of course, that's different to all of our day-to-day lives. But I think there's a way she spoke about it that just felt so deeply relatable, that kind of quiet pressure that I think so many women feel. And that's what really just comes across so effectively. I always felt Julia Stiles as an actress was a really positive role model because she's very healthy. You can see she's glows everywhere she goes. She's one of those types of actresses that you can't help but just stare at in that type of way. You know, she's incredibly talented. And her quote there was that every woman struggles with body issues and it's such an effing waste of time.

8:08I mean when she said that I was just like thank goodness and she was saying how when she was on set for Save the Last Dance she was so body conscious that she wasn't good enough here because she had to do scenes in the ballet industry and the ballet industry as we know is notorious for certain body shapes and sizes and Elizabeth just added so much to the conversation she brought her own experience in I think we talked about her essay didn't we that you were reading Ella on Substack? On Substack, exactly about a Zen pick and the kind of, again, these pressures that women feel. And Elizabeth was really honest and said, yes, I often have that kind of inner critic at the back of my head saying you should be thinner.

8:45Having that again, this sort of constant quiet pressure about image that, as I said, I think actually so many women relate to. And they were both just very candid and honest about it in a way that I don't think you hear talked about that much. She even said, you know, if I want some M &Ms to get me through the afternoon you know the one moment she was talking about these everyday items and she said after she had a baby you know she's like I just need an egg sandwich for my brain to focus she was so candid about it and one story she shared Ella when she was filming with Julia Roberts they were filming um the Mona Lisa smile I love that film so much and Julia apparently had said to her you're going to look back on the photos of you in your 20s and think I was beautiful why didn't I see that isn't that just so true I think we all do this I look back now even 10 years ago and think oh my gosh I was so young but in the time you just don't realize I know and we're all so hard on ourselves and we'll pick up on certain things that we don't like about ourselves just too often and I think this conversation is really illuminated so if you want to listen and you're short on time you can actually just fast forward essentially to about minute 40 and it's a sort of 10 minute conversation on the pressure of body image and I think it's just very valuable but the thing that's so nice is actually is really empowering because she was talking about as you said this reframing that she had then had about learning to trust her body and nourish her body and how that's really freeing for her and she's now looking so much more outward than inward and i think that's just very solid advice it was beautiful especially now she's a parent as well and ella you've got quite a few things to share i mean your book recs are so good that one of our listeners because i was reading the feedback said we need to create the wellness scoop book club I've always wanted to have a book club I'm obsessed with reading I have a new one I've started so if it's good I will share next week maybe if we do substat first maybe we'll do a book club book recs okay so I read a book um while I was away last week called hello beautiful by Anne Napolitano I've seen it everywhere it's actually got really beautiful covers beautiful painting of a woman it's very much a kind of modern take it's set in the around the 80s-ish um on little women I think four sisters the story of them growing up and it's so beautifully written it's absolutely heartbreaking but in in a phenomenal way it's so powerful if you're going away you've got a few days off or you're looking for a nightly read I could not recommend this book more it's one of the best things I've read in ages okay will it make me cry is a question I always ask you will I be sobbing in a kind of positive way for a moment at one point but not it's inherently a positive empowering book and I actually took a lot from it okay another one on my list.

11:22Thank you.

11:26Ella, let's move into the health headlines that matter. Oh my gosh. Okay. Basically, we were putting together this script and this wasn't the intention when we were writing the script, but we suddenly both realized yesterday we've accidentally created an episode that's essentially full of scandal where just, and there's things we actually could have put in and I felt it was too much. But we've got a whole series of headlines that essentially show the level of lies that take place in this industry. And I think we should start with the nutrition misinformation in the digital age, because I think it frames everything really effectively.

12:02Re shared this, I think with me a week or two ago, and it was essentially a new report from the Rooted Research Collective and the Freedom Food Alliance. And it's titled Nutrition Misinformation in the Digital Age, From Keto to Carnivore, Up to 24 million social media users at serious risk from harmful nutrition advice shared online and honestly it is nothing short of genuinely shocking because it essentially details how these 24 million people are at risk from the health content that they're exposed to mostly on instagram and tiktok and this report found that 67 that is a huge huge number two-thirds of millennials and gen z users on tiktok or adopting nutrition trends they've seen on the platform multiple times a week.

12:47And the longer we've done the show, the more I can really see it. This kind of bold, confident, this will change your whole life content is really having a dangerous impact. I know. That's why. So I actually sit just for full transparency on the board of the Freedom Food Alliance as a nutrition advisor. And I'm very proud to because when you get these sort of statistics, it's just so gut wrenching. And I think the real concern is what the trends are obviously based on, because when they're analysed, the content, you know, only 2.1 % of nutrition content aligned with established public health guidelines.

13:21And Rhi, can I just stop you there to just clarify? That means 98 % of content that is going out on these platforms is not aligned with public health guidelines. That is 98%. I know. And I feel like we've kind of lost trust in public health guidelines perhaps as well because of this. And you've got to remember, guys, that to create anything that can be applied on a blanket level, because of course we know we're unique, nutrition should be unique, but that's impossible on a public health level to apply. It takes over a decade's worth of research to collate something you can give out to everybody.

13:53So public health guidance is there for a reason, because it is safe and it is credible. And the gap now between credible information and popular content is just getting bigger, Ella, because of platforms like TikTok and Instagram. they reward like we always discuss those attention grabbing items and trends and reels. Social media allows content to be created, edited, reposted, deleted in seconds. And the misinformation speed is insane. It's just awful. It's emotionally charged. Whereas evidence based advice tends to be slower. Ella, it's more measured. It's more nuanced. And that's why you won't see people like myself doing these reels that are just, I don't know, getting like 20 million crazy views on TikTok.

14:36Well, fundamentally, nuance can't go viral. That's like as simple as it comes in the sense of it isn't clickbaity. Nuance doesn't have clickbait. Eat more carrots can't be clickbait. And I think that's like fundamentally where the problem is. And I think it's also just worth noting in this, obviously, that there is so much money to be gained from this. And that's where it all becomes so murky and so complicated. And obviously both self-aware, like our incomes and our careers have been based very online and very much in the kind of health and wellness world. So we obviously understand that, but I think it's worth putting this whole context together.

15:13So Instagram alone is projected to generate over 32 billion dollars, US dollars in ad revenue by next year. And that's the ecosystem that's rewarding the viral clickbaity type content. So this report then looked at 53 of the biggest, they called them super spreaders, accounts on Instagram. So they're the creators who are driving the majority of the misinformation that we're talking about here. I can name quite a few of them, I can think right now in my head. Yeah, most have no formal training, no credentials, etc. But 96 % of those people are making money and actually some of them are making over$100 ,000 a month from selling things like raw milk, unregulated packages.

15:52and so we're talking about huge sums of money and so again I think that's just so worth taking in if we just take a step back which is that 98 % of the information being shared is not credible and that information is being shared because it's very emotionally charged and it's very extreme and extreme is what works for clickbait and that's why it goes viral and by account of going viral you can make this much money and so you have to kind of understand that if people want to make that much money from social media alone now they have to be extreme and it's just a very very dangerous cycle. When I got into nutrition my husband made a joke he said oh because you're doing some NHS because I was doing some NHS stuff at the very beginning he said oh you know you're a health professional now we just accept your salaries what it is you know that's what it is but perhaps the most unsettling part of this whole story we're discussing is the lies so one in five of these influencers are pretending to be doctors.

16:47Now, this happens for nutritionists because it's not protected anyway, but you don't expect that with doctors. And that's where the problem comes in. So they're using medical titles, wearing white coats, some of them aren't. And the problem is you also then get doctors who are doctors, but aren't regulated anymore, that do wear white coats and stethoscopes and build trust. And they're not practicing doctoring, you know, at the moment, There's so many blurred lines and regulatory bodies can't possibly cipher through all these people online. And then how do they enforce things? They'll just find them.

17:19And then these people are earning 100 ,000, whatever, like you said, a month. It's nothing to them. So they're promoting diets that are extreme. Like we said, the raw milk, only meat perhaps. They make it seem revolutionary, aspirational. And it's not just talking about nutrition anymore. It actually becomes identity. So we've now got to the point where our political views, our cultural narratives are shaped in a different way. It's not just eat for health. You know, it's saying don't trust mainstream experts. You know, they're hiding the truth from you. The government aligned. The rebellion is powerful.

17:52And you can see why we are all just confused. Yeah, it feels like COVID really expedited that conversation in terms of don't trust mainstream media, don't trust mainstream experts. And I think coupled with a lot of kind of complicated political climates, particularly in the US, I think we've gotten to this very, very, very complicated and murky place. And as I said, but that and then that is terribly aligned with the way that social media platforms have changed with the advent of TikTok to really, really fundamentally just reward extreme content because that's what has the virality. and we are left with this kind of quagmire.

18:28And I think there's two things to pick up on that, which is that first of all, the World Economic Forum's 2024 global risk report showed misinformation is now considered the single most pressing global threat ahead of war, climate change, pandemics. And if you open the papers and look at the pressing risk of war, I mean, that's quite something in the world today. And I think that then it's really interesting and this is how we kind of accidentally created a scandal episode is actually, again, this is becoming so to the forefront and in the papers yesterday so this will be a few days ago by the time this episode comes out there was a headline this was a big oncology conference in the US and the headlines ran like you know the sun loves the sensationalist headline it's a tabloid newspaper in the UK if you guys don't know it their headline was lethal lies cancer patients risk dying because of rubbish they read on social media but it's true that's what's scary about this headline Ella is that you know the NHS leading UK charities international experts they're all raising the alarm here because they are seeing cancer patients refuse life-saving medical treatment in favor of radical diets or unproven alternatives they discovered on TikTok or YouTube I mean my mum has just finished her chemotherapy and it's for the best part has worked and if she hadn't have had that I don't even want to go there but she's on different treatment now instead she's finished the chemo she starts a different one but we cannot deny the fact that vaccination rates are going down walls are rising everything seems very very sticky yeah and so there was this study from university of bologna in isley and they found that between 88 and 100 of the most viewed cancer related videos on social media contained false or misleading information which means that basically every video that people are seeing now is essentially yes either false or misleading and so as i said there were doctors presenting at the american society for clinical oncology conference and that's what was being reported on and they're now saying they are watching patients consistently delay treatment until their cancer has become metastatic or incurable so metastatic means it's spreading guys it's moving it's multiplying and it's traveling basically and there was another paper at the conference that looked specifically at tiktok videos on prostate cancer screening And every single video, every single video was rated as low or moderate quality content in terms of actually being helpful.

20:57The researchers were really highlighting that misinformation in this case doesn't always come from outright lies. Sometimes it's just cherry picking stats. It's oversimplifying research or it's emotional language distorting reality. So it's come from somewhere, but it's being entirely misconstrued. And, you know, we have an amazing extra soup coming up, actually, on this type of thing, how one tiny strain of truth in a big conversation can almost give something validity, but it gets really misconstrued. And why the human brain jumps on that, why we act on these things. And an element of truth makes things very, very easy to believe because it's slightly more believable, but it doesn't make it factual.

21:36And we discussed this and it's left experts like Dr. Famico Chino saying it's, you know, plainly evidence based medicine that's lost. You know, we need to almost regain a battlefield. But with a lack of regulation in every industry now online, I don't see, Ella, how we can regain the battlefield. Yeah, I was really struck by that quote. I think they were speaking from this conference and it's a direct quote from this challenge they were raising the idea that evidence-based medicine has lost and I think it is just this very very odd situation that we find ourselves in I think it was not to bring it back to us I think that was why we wanted to start the show wasn't it because ultimately what we're seeing it feels with social media now don't get me wrong like it can be a fun place and I'm not doing it down entirely but it just feels like a terrible place to turn for actual information use it for a stir fry recipe use it for a hack to paint your room like you know for a cool idea to make a halloween costume strawberries over no net over your strawberries yeah i'm loving my gardening content too but i just would say i almost like wouldn't trust the thing i see on there because clickbait is the only way to get content through now and unfortunately as we've seen with this i means almost 100 % of cancer related content is incorrect 98 % of nutrition content is incorrect I think you've got to be so wary and then the scandal continues because really last night what's that mean sorry an embargoed piece of content I think it just shows like what is going on with this industry tell us about these supplements honestly I get sent a lot of these things that come out but this one was particularly interesting because we discussed creatine before hadn't we in the episode we delved into that so if anyone listening is unsure a few episodes ago we did a bit of a deep dive into this particular supplement the benefits the information what you really need to know and a new independent study that's actually published this week has said that there's a serious problem in the booming fitness supplement space which we knew already let's be honest two-thirds of the best-selling amazon creatine gummies don't contain creatine ella like they don't contain creatine it's just like that's i honestly i don't know whether to laugh to cry to like give up now or go home you're just having a gummy full of sugar and probably a load of plastic i just don't understand what happened to this industry it boomed and it's bell gibson again it's coming back in a different form yeah it feels like we were joking about what to call this episode and we're like is wellness a lie like i know it's just so much of it is now a lie and it's a con and it's because there's a lot of money to be made.

24:16It's the monetization of it that's the lie. And as a result everyone jumps on it but the idea that you have heard about creatinine from an influencer online spreading some false information about it, you go to Amazon to buy it and you buy a gummy that doesn't even contain it, it's like what are we doing? There's actually just a little fact for you guys. When you're looking at supplements, I know for children they may have a certain place, remember they could be choking hazards as well depending on the age, but it's very rare you have good bioavailability from gummies no matter what a company says or sells to you because you'll see I actually saw one supplements company because I'm debating about Retrition Plus what I'm doing about I've been so busy Ella you know so busy just to bring back the supplement line but another company used this amazing AI ad and it was full of not real people walking around saying oh but one thing that's real is our supplement and they had this image of this mother with like two babies walking around with the perfect lifestyle it was all AI bi-generated you just the money behind these adverts the marketing in this particular space is very very concerning and when you say they're not as bi-available you mean they're not as easy for people to absorb right yeah and gummies are just full of you've got to remember how do you make a gummy often gelatine you can make it sometimes in different ways to be vegan but it's rare you get that in supplement form tons of sugar for taste palatability the way you store and hold the suspension of a supplement within a gummy, trying to explain this in a way that makes sense, just the body doesn't recognise it.

25:44It has a hard enough time with pills and tablets, let alone a gummy form which you've chewed down and your stomach acid is most likely to just plough through. A liquid supplement's the most effective then? Do you know? It depends on the type of supplement you're taking. For instance, I did my vitamin D sprays when I had them as a spray because I knew then in the side of the mouth and the cheek or under the tongue, you can absorb well into the bloodstream. I can't say pills are not effective because, of course, you get something from them. But what I can say is liquid's better than gummies. You don't want to go near a gummy, I don't think.

26:18Yeah, I think that's very sage advice.

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28:47and there's 60 amazing recipes, family friendly, everything from breakfast, weekday dinners, quick lunches, simple swaps and snacks and things you can have on the go that makes such a difference. And trust me, whether you're a busy parent or you're just trying to reduce these in your diet on your everyday workload, this book is here to support and empower you to get back to basics with food without the pressure of this perfectionism. So if you want to feel more informed and inspired in the kitchen, then you can pre-order your copy of the unprocessed plate now it's out june the 19th and back to me and ella okay we've got another scandal because we're just going for it today guys they're so big this one actually made me cry though ella like i think i shed a tear i hadn't seen this piece of information and re-put in the show notes and i was whatsapping her when i landed back on sunday from our holiday being like i'm literally my jaw is on the floor and i don't know why it is because we all know there's a lack of transparency in most industries.

29:46But I think when we were collating the level of information about how much misinformation is out there, we've obviously talked so much over the last few months about how terribly regulated the whole nutrition industry, how pathetic the government is creating any level of intervention that actually serves public health in terms of changing the way that the food industry works and what's available for people on a day-to-day basis. And then you see this headline. And as I said, I don't know whether to like quit now, cry or like shout louder. It's very unclear. But essentially we talked, didn't we, a few weeks ago about the fact that the government said they were going to bring in some different legislations to support healthy eating in this country a few years ago.

30:29And lots of it never came to fruition. And what's come out is as a result of a Guardian investigation is really shocking. And essentially, the UK government dropped the healthy eating push after pressure from huge food conglomerates that serve ultra processed food. At the time, the Department of Health and Social Care were preparing for the high fat salt sugar regulations, basically the rules to restrict supermarket promotions of foods that are high in these items, fat, salt and sugar. And it was due to come into force in October 2023. So to help retailers prepare, the government issued this draft guidance.

31:04and that first version, it actually contained something really progressive and I was really excited about it. But the aim of this policy is to shift the balance of promotions towards healthier options. You know how the marketing and children are exposed to it and all sorts of things, you know, for example, two for one deals in the supermarket, discounts, loyalty points. And what they wanted to do was put those items on healthy things. Let's do two for one on fruit. Let's do loyalty points for whole grains, fresh fruit, meat, fish, anything. It was a really practical proposal and it wasn't just about banning things it was about moving things Ella over into a different space.