Beat the 3pm Slump, Survive a Bad Night’s Sleep & The Low-Down on Lie-Ins

25:24okay our second headline this week is running as good as a nap to help cope with sleep deprivation this was kind of picked up everywhere that headline in and of itself comes from the times and it's interesting you know we all have those moments where we don't have great sleep that has been me the last month. And often our instinct when we're really tired is, you know, cancel going to the gym or something, drink loads of notes of coffee, or like be quite sedentary and conserve our energy and very normal response. But there's new research to show we might want to rethink that because this small scale, but interesting study showed that 20 minutes of exercise could help protect our memory after sleep deprivation and worked as well as a 90 minute nap.

26:06I have to say, the reason I like doing the school run or sometimes I know I'll just feel better when I get out of the house is because I'm exposed to fresh air. I'm exposed to light, although I'm not looking forward to the darker winter months. But like I said last year, we're here. We're here to get you through these darker times. But the researchers here were from McGill University over in Canada, actually. And it was a small scale study. But again, I think it makes perfect sense. It's common sense. It took 54 healthy young adults and kept all of them awake for 30 hours under laboratory supervision.

26:42I mean, that in itself is torturous. After those 30 hours of out sleep, they were then divided into three different groups. So you had one group that did the 20 minutes of cycling. Then you had one group that had a 90 minute nap. I think I know what I'd rather choose. And then you had the control group that we definitely wouldn't want to be in this one that had neither exercise or a nap. And then their memory was tested a few days later and they were asked to recall what they had seen. And those that had either exercise or nap remembered more, Ella, up to 22 % higher on average they scored. So remarkably, in this particular memory test, the 20 minutes of exercise was as effective as the nap.

27:24Now, perhaps that's increased blood volume to the brain. Perhaps there's lots of different mechanisms there that could have done this. But exercise is such an underutilized tool for our health for a majority of reasons. It's just seen as weight loss, isn't it? Yeah, it's interesting. Exactly. As you said, so they're 30 hours of no sleep, then they're shown some images and then they do their various different things. And three days later, they're shown the images again. And as you said, 22 % higher on average recall of those images, which is amazing. And I think it's also quite interesting because obviously sometimes we don't have a choice about being tired, whether that's because we're doing shift patterns, whether that's because you work in aviation, for example, and you can have kind of strange hours or you've got young children or you've got caring responsibilities or you've just got a really heavy kind of mental load going on.

28:20and I think it's just one of those things that yes it's a small-scale study but it's just a nice bit of inspiration to show that actually you know the reality is if you've like you haven't had much sleep but you've got to go to work you've got to get on with the day you can't have a 90 minute nap lovely as it would be but you probably could do a 20 minute power walk or go to the gym for 20 minutes like it feels plausible cycle to work like the 20 minutes of exercise feels really plausible, but I think for the vast majority of people. And if you've got like a work colleague or a friend or someone, at least if you could just walk around the corner to get lunch or go and sit somewhere else in a different environment and a different scene, you've got some extra steps in and you'd probably feel, you'd probably feel really better.

29:03So I think that's a great headline that everybody could be working on there. So it doesn't mean you have to stick to the 20 exact minutes, but I just think moving in general, it's an underutilized tool. Do some stretches at your desk, anything to help you feel a bit more awake. And then it moves us on to weekend lions that could potentially help your heart. Now I'm fascinated by this because obviously as parents, you don't really get lions, but, um, I used to pre-kids. Oh, I loved a lion, Ella. I was lion queen. So I have never, I don't think I've ever had a lion. Like I'm such a, I know you just know.

29:43I'm such a like morning person that I'm like, let's go. I am so lazy in the evenings, like pathetically lazy. And I feel like with the kids, we kind of like, we really tag team it. Like I'm so in charge of mornings. Like I am up, we're getting dressed, we're having breakfast, like bags are ready. And I kind of take that. But in the evening, I'm like, can you clean their teeth? Can you do that? Like I'm useless. But yes, the headline in the Guardian was people should not feel guilty. weekend lions may be good for you. Previous advice stress risks of sleeping in, but about 90 minutes extra sleep could prevent high blood pressure, which is interesting because I think we've been all told so many times that you can't catch up on sleep essentially.

30:26And like generally the advice is like consistency, wake up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, including your weekends or you disrupt your body clock. But then as you were just saying for like the vast majority of people, real life doesn't really work like that. Like as we were just saying for various different reasons. You might be low on sleep in the week and on the weekend, you can go to bed earlier, you can get up later. This is just it. I feel I've heard so much conflicting information from scientists saying napping helps, no napping doesn't help. Interestingly, we've got a friend who used to be a footballer and he swears by his whole family still napping like consistently for a few hours at the weekend.

31:06They do it as a whole family, parents and children, and they nap in the afternoon, even now when their kids are past napping age. It's so, so interesting. But this came from researchers from the Korea University in Seoul, and they looked at 40 ,000 adults. That's a lot of adults over seven years. And they compared weekdays and weekends and different blood pressure markers and physical activity. And then overall, the people that got the extra weekend sleep. They had 6 % lower odds of hypertension. So potentially significantly different there within the study, but one to two hours extra seemed to be that useful spot that they'd found.

31:49So one hour and 27 minutes to be precise emerging as the specific sweet spot. And those that got around this amount then had a 9 % lower odds of high blood pressure. So it looks like if you are able to have that extra bit of time, it could be helping your heart health. But, you know, this isn't a prescription to sleep exactly 87 minutes longer. It's just saying that perhaps your heart does need the catch up and sleep. But there's so many variables, Ella. I think this depends on who you are. I think it depends on how active you are in the week, because you'll still get more benefits from getting up to do that exercise class potentially than having the lion.

32:27I mean, where do you draw the line? Exactly that. Although interestingly, according to the NHS, we're meant to get seven to nine hours, ideally for our health. I certainly haven't been doing that recently. I would be, I never do, but I would be nine hours. Oh, you see, I'm a seven gal. Like I don't think I've almost ever slept more than eight hours in my life. It is really interesting, isn't it? It's so personal, isn't it? But we average six to 6.4 hours at the moment. So there obviously is interesting. Anyway, you know, as we said, I don't think you should go to sleep this weekend with an alarm clock on, be like, I must doze for 87 minutes, but see it as maybe permission to just relax, indulge.

33:09And as we know, anyway, like sleep is so incredibly important for our general wellbeing. And so actually like just prioritizing sleep, enjoying sleep. And as we always said, like people think of exercise, weight loss, you know, these sorts of things as health and like actually a really juicy sleep. One of the best things you can do for your health. So some little tips for you all just thinking about this. Obviously, sleep hygiene is really key. And we're actually a nation of chronic under sleepers. We definitely don't get enough in the UK. And it's linked to so many factors from eating too close to bed.

33:41You want to, if you can ideally have like a two to three hour gap just to aid digestion, try and keep your routine regular like we said on one of our first hacks you know that can also help with sleep uh screen time but i do think we're just all a bit stressed and it can be so hard to switch off and then the mobile phone in the bedroom thing i'm sure that's a massive crux for so many people too because um it's hard i've been getting into audiobooks recently actually and i've i'm trying to download a few for when obviously the baby comes and i think that can be a really nice way to fall asleep in the evening to an audiobook or a podcast.

34:17Do you fall asleep while it's playing? I just know that I'm kind of half sleep, half awake and I turn it off because I try to read a book but sometimes when I'm that tired I only get like a paragraph in but then I still end up tossing and turning sometimes so I think it's a good thing to really prioritise our sleep.

34:37So let's move on to what is trending in wellness because we've got a few things today. so re you found this in the first one which is that sainsbury's are putting fiber front and center which is very cool to see so they announced and then kind of showed off or revealed on the instagram page they're full on fiber label which is um going on more than 500 i think of their own brand products so things like oh it's beans broccoli and it's going to be on the packs but then also on the shelf edges to make it kind of easier to shop and online. More than 100 of those products apparently are included in the Audi price match as well, which I think is really interesting.

35:20So it's showing, first of all, fiber clearly is having enough of a moment that they believe there's a commercial opportunity in signposting fiber. Like I'm sure they're doing it for the good of the world, but I'm also sure they're doing it from a commercial perspective because, you know, these two things can sit hand in hand. And so I think the fact that fiber is clearly, yeah, valuable enough to warrant redesigning and shifting and reprinting or printing new packaging, that will have been packaging, trying to align it so that they all start to hit shelf at a similar time and redesigning that part of packaging.

35:57It's no small feat. It kind of is one of those things that like seems like oh you just put a sticker on but like no and also the claims and what you can and can't say and it's a huge amount of work to reprint or like redesign the packaging or the plates that the packaging's printed on or the rest of it and then trying to get it all to hit shelf at a similar time to have this launch like so anyway they've obviously put a huge amount of time and thought behind it so i think that is testament to fiber that is testament to fiber and what's so interesting is sainsbury's conducted their own research and even though people think they understand fiber, three quarters of them.

36:31Only half of customers recognize that fruit was a source of fiber and pulses as well. So I feel like we just do, we still have an education piece and a long way to go. The nuance I think that's going to come from all of this, because as we say, whenever we make a positive step forwards, there's always a catch, isn't there? Like we've had with the UPF conversation with some foods being demonized that shouldn't be. The issue we're going to have with fiber is that you can start highlighting fiber products that are inherently not great for our health as well. So while I obviously am all for it, I think it's fantastic, but it does not make that protein cereal bar a healthy choice with ingredients because it's got added protein and fiber within it.

37:16But to add on to your everyday items that they contain fiber, I think that's a fantastic addition, Ella. Yeah, we definitely, we have goals. So the supermarket's aiming to add thousands of tons of fiber and millions of portions of fruit and veg to UK diets by 2030. So well done. It's cool to see. And yeah, as we talked about the other day, M &S are doing the beans and yeah, it just feels like these foods. I mean, I know when I started in the industry, same time as you, Rhi, like these were foods when I was like making butter bean this and broccoli that people will be like, huh? Or it's like plant-based and they're like, what's that?

37:56Sound is like, because I remember someone being like, it sounds like you eat house plants, like a little nipple on a green pot in your corner. And so it just, it's really amazing actually to see these kinds of shifts because yes, you know, there is a hell of a long way to go, if we're honest, in terms of really changing the nation's diet and us seeing the positive impact in terms of our collective health, but also the economic and productivity benefits that would come from it and the mental health gains. But to see these kind of really large scale shifts, I'm going to choose to see this as real genuine like green shoots.

38:34Yeah, because how we perceive food as a nation, that's half of the battle, isn't it? It's really how we all associate what's our go to comfort food, what's normal, what's not normal, you know, that we're starting to see a massive shift in the times people understand that red and processed meat is not great for their health. Therefore, beans perhaps could be a more popular option. Now, I really I'm so excited. I feel like lots of big companies. And as you know, behind the scenes, I consult for some massive ones. They want to be on the right side of history. They don't want to be they don't want to be on the wrong side of history.

39:10I think some people I I can't speak for the massive, massive industry fiends, but they do want to do the right thing. And I think it can be really difficult when companies are dealing with profit margins, making ends meet, business challenges alongside health changes. So it's a good one. Right. The big trend that I'm very excited to discuss that Ella has brought to the show today is about Brian Johnson, the multimillionaire, the biohacker who just stepped back from longevity, but his girlfriend may not be. I don't think he has stepped back, has he? He's got a health condition, which he's been honest about.

39:50And he did that kind of cryptic tweet of like, maybe I took it too far, but I don't know. I think he is still going. But exactly. So this was an interview in The Times called My Extreme Life with Brian Johnson. And just to refresh anyone's memory, there was a big Netflix show on him. He is the Silicon Valley, like multimillionaire, extraordinarily wealthy, incredibly successful, all credit to him, entrepreneur. And he has made the headlines over the last few years because he has spent millions and millions, different figures thrown out there, but certainly multi-millions a year on trying to slow or reverse his biological aging.

40:32He sort of describes himself as the most measured man in history. Now, the interesting thing is his girlfriend, who's also his colleague called Kate, I don't know if it's Tolo or Tulu, but T-O-L-O, let's call her Tolo. Anyway, Kate is taking the same kind of biohacking approach now, but she's applying it to women's health. Yes, exactly. And there is a serious point behind it that I like. I do like that she said women are understudied, which is true. We know this. We're behind with the study gap. But it also does raise a question about the pursuit of perfection. again we already as women have a lot of those sorts of pressures upon us when it comes to aging specifically and she starts um she starts off really by talking about optimizing things to do with their relationship and and long-term health which i think are really interesting like she says that um for instance they don't sleep in the same bed which you know is fine because apparently we sleep better alone i think we do i mean who wants to be woken up by snoring gibbets i guess matt doesn't snore, right?

41:39Or me being pregnant, getting up like three or four times in the night. Exactly. But so she's doing something quite interesting. So exactly on this point that female health and particularly kind of around like hormonal shifts, menstrual cycle, that that is, as we know, very understudied because it is really difficult to include in scientific studies because obviously your body is shifting on a day by day basis. And so, but it's incredibly interesting. So she is doing this hundred day experiment, which apparently is the shortest time required to be able to really get an understanding of particularly with the cycle.

42:18And it's going to collect 14.8 million data points across her menstrual cycle. She thinks that will make her now the most measured woman in history. So what a couple, the most measured couple in history, pretty extreme every day she's going to do 100 tasks it's monitored by a 12 person medical team and the estimated cost of this experiment is 2.6 million dollars but she said and actually do you know what i actually liked her in her interview um she said when we look for randomized controlled trials for women's health we're often looking for studies that don't exist which leaves half the population guessing and i think that's a huge part of the motivation she said for example gave of a stat that your cholesterol during your cycle can fluctuate hugely, like even up to by 19%, depending on what day in your cycle you are.

43:09And so there's huge gaps essentially in the understanding on how our hormonal fluctuations could affect our health. I mean, she's only one person. And then there's also the fact every woman and every cultural background and every bit of genetics is also going to be wildly variable. But for intrigue, I think this is great. And if it can open up doors and if perhaps Brian wants to throw some money behind some actual funding and big tests for women's health, that would be nice. Maybe he'll be motivated by Kate and say, hey, I'm going to donate and help everybody discover more about women's health because I would love to see that.

43:44I totally agree. And as we know, our well-being does really change throughout our menstrual cycle. And then obviously perimenopause and menopause, that has a humongous effect again. And so the more information that we all collectively have, the more empowered we are. But this is what she does. Okay, so she wakes up 6.30 in the morning. And at this point, she removes a vaginal techno tampon. So it's not like a normal tampon. It's like a stats reading data driven tampon. To sleep in overnight, that's safe to sleep in, right. Yeah, and it measures menstrual blood flow overnight. Then she spits in a tube.

44:18She checks her temperature. She measures her HRV. that's all before she's even got out of bed. Then she has an internal swab to test her vaginal microbiome. Then she tracks her reproductive hormones, weighs herself, does a 30-minute weighted vest walk wearing a UV protective face mask and hat. Then she has 30 minutes in the home gym. She's also monitoring her urine color, vaginal discharge, nighttime genital engorgement, basically like every tiny bit of her data. So I'm very curious where this all goes, but we've talked so much about him. We can't not talk about her. And then one other thing that is quite interesting.

44:59Obviously there was this moment when his Netflix documentary came out last year where he was literally everywhere. Also, sorry, it was actually all her. So he was doing this all quietly. she's actually like a clearly a very um bright woman she was the senior manager of global design operations at the north face she had oversaw a team of 70 people and she then joined his team and it was her that turned it into this like global phenomenon and this kind of extraordinary marketing tactic it was all her of course it was what's that phrase behind every um great man there is an even greater woman yeah anyway i thought that was quite an interesting thing anyway i'm sure once this has finished, we'll hear more about it.

45:42And I just want to say one thing, I sound like kind of a Warren fan. I'm not, but you know, sometimes with influencers or with people in the media, there's this frustration of like, be like me, be like me. I'm doing it like this. And you're like, I can't be like you. She said, I wouldn't want people to emulate this lifestyle. We are not normal people doing normal things. We're trying to be examples of the infrastructure that we can build for health. And I do think that's really important and all credit for that, because as I said, I don't think we necessarily hear that enough. So yes, they're publicizing it.

46:14Yes, they're spending millions and millions of dollars a year. No, no one else is going to do, or almost no one else is going to do what they're doing. But maybe we will genuinely learn things about optimizing our wellbeing throughout our cycle as a result of this. And I just appreciated their honesty, but I'm very curious about the whole thing. Yeah, it's fascinating. I can't wait to see how it plays out as well. But I just really, really pray that they both then from their work here, put some money behind some really life changing research that they are financially able to support, you know, to really investigate things that can be applied and more across the board.

46:52because these are still things that I don't think every scientist would say are measurable biomarkers of health. They're still doing a lot of biohacking devices that don't have the grounded evidence to be an accurate measure of someone's health still. If you see what I'm saying, it's really hard to even implement any of some of the things that were listed off. I'm sure there's obviously there's 100. We couldn't list off all 100, but you couldn't implement all of those into clinical trials and I'd be really interested to see the layering of what happens next you know I feel like Brian Brian was used as a sort of isolated case example but she's kind of brought into the question this is bigger than just our isolated case I agree but I'm also personally like recently a Instagram reel of this influencer who was like what she does in the morning and it gone viral is the husband saying that she's what's it called a crunchy wife crunchy like an almond mom a crunchy but I see a crunchy mom I feel like when people talk about that they're talking about people who like eat kale salads and do yoga oh that's where it comes like avoid Oreos they're like granola mums is what it was called because essentially they're like getting you to eat like homemade granola sort of thing for breakfast as opposed to like cereal so actually you and I are probably crunchy mums like we are probably like crunchy almond mums or crunchy granola mums I do like crunchy food.

48:17I do like crunchy food. But also we're the ones who are like, no, you know, you can't eat Oreos every day. Like, yeah. No, you can't have that without having this. Like, no, there are no ice creams, you know, if you can't eat a real meal. Like, you know, we probably do fall into that category. You know, we give our kids kefir. I think we're probably crunchy. Wow, we are crunchy. Yeah, now I get it. But then this whole point at the beginning when I was like, I don't even know if I like wellness anymore because I'm so disillusioned by the industry. Probably by those standards we're no longer crunchy.

48:49But anyway, this was like the number of things involved in EMF blockers and this and that. It's like a five hour routine. This was cost of fortune. But what I was going to say where this all came from was like, and that's in the name of longevity. And obviously that's tiny versus Brian Johnson, who's spending millions. But I'd be so interested in the like the baby version, the like scientifically proven baby version like yes we know having a sauna twice a week and then like you know going for a 30 minute walk when you wake up like things that are an effort I'm not saying it's simple it's not the world's most straightforward nutrition or wellness but it is like plausible if you don't have a family it's plausible well no if your children are older like if you have teenagers it's plausible it's not plausible or if your partner's available to watch them like it's not necessary I'm not saying at all moments of life it's straightforward but it is for many people at many stages with a little bit of effort it's plausible i wish there was a blueprint for that versus because again it's like for core longevity what we then see as these extremes as opposed to like actually blah blah blah blah do you know what i mean i know exactly what you mean it's so hard because um what's really difficult why i love the wellness group why we have time to have these conversations is that obviously the climate we live in, I'd say what, 5 % less of the population could live a life like that right now with the current landscape, you know, that we're living through.

50:19And that's why we're here on the Wellness Scoop. You know, it's cost of living, everything's a bit hard, blah, blah, blah. And then you've got these extreme stories in the media of people that are able to do these types of things. And then you've got people that want to dip in a little bit and see if there are things that we could potentially do to help our health. And I think that's what makes it overwhelming, Ella. I think that's why we're here because people read about these things or they see these crunchy people. Now I realize I'm a crunchy person. She's crunchy. It's unattainable for some people that haven't heard of Kefir.

50:51That's like, what the hell are you giving your children? So yeah, I think my mind is open to being very philosophical now this morning. I am. Really, I'll tell you before we close, guys, This is what the internet says a crunchy mum is. Here's our AI overview. A crunchy mum is a parent who favors natural, holistic and eco-friendly approaches to raising children, often shunning consumer norms, core characteristics, natural living, prefers organic foods, zero waste products and avoiding plastics and synthetic chemicals, often leans towards, okay, this is not you, skepticism towards conventional medicine.

51:25No, it's definitely not me. Has a more of a kind of like attachment parenting style. So like co-sleeping, et cetera. I'd like to consider myself part crunchy, part not. And I think that's okay. I preferred your original analogy of the fact that we like crunching granola and almonds. I was like, what's the granola one? A granola mom is a mother who embraces a natural, yeah, holistic, ego-conscious lifestyle in her daily life. Focuses on sustainability, reducing waste, recycling, often choosing non-plastic household items. Favors organic whole or homemade food, like actually making homemade granola bras.

52:01tends to avoid artificial additives, heavy screen times, and certain conventional consumer chemicals. Oh, that's much better. Do you know what's so interesting? I feel like I've been read my horoscope. You know, sometimes you're waiting for that month of the year I'm born because I do believe also there's so much in star science. So I'm fascinated by this. Okay, one last one, because why not while we're at it? The one we don't want to be, the difference. So I think being like a kind of granola mom, we kind of probably like semi in and we're quite into an almond mum you don't want to be an almond mumry an almond mum projects toxic diet culture extreme food restriction and obsession with thinness onto her child the phrase comes from this 2013 clip have you seen it from the real housewives of beverly hills with yolanda hadid and gigi hadid and in the video gigi hadid who's like a young teenager says to her mum she feels weak because she's only eaten half an almond and Yolanda replies have a couple of almonds then and chew them really well.

53:04That's the most toxic thing I've ever heard. Yeah. I didn't realize they were on a TV. I thought she was a model, Hadid. She is but her mum was on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I feel like I would love The Real Housewives and I've never watched it. I think I'm probably like missing a moment in my life. Probably banned now from telling me that that is such an extreme terrible thing to put out there on national TV. Okay, there we go, everybody. With the trends, you can pluck from which trend you prefer. I'm hoping all of our listeners aren't in our almond category as well. But thank you for tuning in today.

53:38We've covered a breadth of different topics in wellness and had very open discussions. And then we're back Thursday where we take your questions as well. And we are going to be talking about all sorts of things. Is soy milk really a UPF, The Secret to a Satisfying Afternoon Snack. As always, those are our recommendations. Should we all be taking magnesium? How often should we really be going to the toilet? All sorts of things. The high, the low, as always. We'll see you back here on Thursday. We can't wait, guys. Have a great day. Have a good week. Bye.

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