Beating Hangovers, Wellness Washing & The Chronic Disease Pandemic

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1:02Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. We love being here and as always we're here as your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert and after a decade in the wellness industry we know that it's overwhelming and confusing. So that's why we've created this podcast to cut through all the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. Oh we have a big one today, Rhiannon. We've got so many different things. We've got a real like 360 tour of the world of health and wellness. we are going to start with the real science of hangovers and practical ways to feel better in the festive season and on that some simple habits to help everyone stay feeling really good over Christmas when sleep goes down alcohol and sugar normally go up it's not a problem but we've got some good tips for you guys wellness washing explained obsessed with this new term and cannot wait to dive into that the new global ultra process food review from the Lancet and what that means all the headlines around things like the pandemic of chronic diseases that's happened and fitness and health tracking apps and the hidden downsides some new research talking about how those may not be so good for our health after all

2:09we're a few weeks away from christmas which is all a bit exciting i'm sure you guys are feeling overwhelmed and super super busy as this time of year always is but hopefully fun as well really have you been what are you up to i'm really proud of myself because i've had a few personal challenges behind the scenes but i've made it to the gym once a week ella well done yeah that's basically all I have to contribute I feel I feel again like I um do you know that's actually a lie I did buy another heated blanket on the Black Friday sales and it's changed my life because I get into bed now and I kind of switch on my little cozy heated blanket and then I've got that little massager thing I bought in lockdown that I've pulled out of the storage box and I really look forward to it it's added to my nighttime routine Ella.

2:52Of course it sounds amazing it's like a little nighttime spa. It's good but it's keeping me up late so actually I kind of need to start earlier to make all this kind of stuff work because I'm starting to look like what's the trend at the very beginning the morning shed I'm like the evening load oh my gosh I love that I have started going to the gym I've been doing like a couple of half an hour sessions a week the last month I feel so good for it yeah back into regular exercise and oh my goodness me my mental health benefits so much I mean I feel like it's grave your muscles and I feel kind of looser and that's all so nice you don't feel like that tight feeling but for my mental well-being well you need it because you're so busy now because you've got book tour events to share yes the book is quick wins healthy cooking for busy lives give it its full title it's about to come out so this is all just like easy fuss-free cooking and there's eight weeks of meal plans in there as well not like a whole shebang where i'm trying to dictate every single thing you eat but i just think how much do we all hate the what's for dinner question that we either ask ourselves or someone asks us at the end of the day just the mental load is high and that's not what we need and so I just started earlier this year planning out my dinners for the week doing a little batch cooking on the Sunday getting in everything I need so then when I get home from work I'm like no I know I'm making fancy butter beans or I know I'm making this like zesty soup or I know I'm making this aubergine ragout and I have the ingredients and I know what to do and I don't have to think.

4:20So there's eight weeks of dinner plans with a couple of easy lunches in there as well. With shopping list, gets your 30 plant points, of course. But that all comes out on the 18th of December. But on the 16th of December in central London at Book Bar, we will be doing a little festive Christmas signing. It'll be so lovely. And then in January, I'm going to do four talks and Q &As. And I'm going to come to one of them. Yes, I hope so. Yes, I truly would. exactly and I'm going to be in London Edinburgh and Bath as well so I'll put the link to tickets in the show notes but hopefully see you there and if you do want to get the book it is 50 % off on Waterstones if you use the code quickwins50 I'll put that in the show notes as well in capitals and on Amazon currently still half price so nice little Christmas present epic quick win 50 it's like the perfect one isn't it honestly Ella and Bath I'm from um Malchshire from a town Wiltshire near Bath and I used to go every weekend.

5:13I love that city so much. Oh, it's so nice. It's one of the most beautiful cities. I know I'm very biased, but it's so gorgeous. It is. It's absolutely stunning. So yeah, it's all very exciting. There you go. So we move on now to our health headlines that matter.

5:29Do you know what my mum forwarded me? Obviously, we were talking about colostrum the other day and she gets emails from The Economist and The Economist sent her an email with the title Should Adults Take Colostrum? Yeah, isn't that interesting? After we'd said it. Oh, we're trendsetting. As in like anti-trend setting. Which is so interesting. It really shows this is going super mainstream, I think. The weird dystopian world of wellness. Right. What have we got in this week? OK, this is something I'm so excited to talk about in a minute, which is wellness washing. But before that, I also saw on The Economist when I was on their website that they had a piece called How to Avoid a Hangover.

6:07And I just thought this is the season of merriment. But it's also the season of sometimes, and this is like, it is of excess and that's not a problem. But I thought actually, we're so lucky to have Rhi in the building every week. We should just get Rhi's like a nutritionist lowdown on how to, not like in a kind of pious way, but stay well over Christmas. So you still feel good about yourself and still feel good in yourself and enjoy the Christmas parties and the extra drinks and all the rest of it. So how do we beat the hangover and how do we stay well over the intensity of the next month and enjoy it?

6:45Well, it's good. And I have to say, I'm probably asked this question. I probably have been asked this question for the last 15 years every December. And it rings true because I'm still asked, is hair of the dog true? Do we just keep on drinking through? Do we? No, I wish I could say it was true, Ella. I feel like I'm the bar humbug, but I want to be helpful. So, you know, a hangover isn't just about being dehydrated. it is you know alcohol essentially when your body digests it it wants to get rid of it as soon as it possibly can which is why you know you can get disrupted sleep inflammation you don't want to have too much because you get a build-up of alcetylhyde which is not great for us as like a byproduct like that toxic aspect blood sugar swings the electrolyte balance and i think that's why you don't want to keep drinking ella and hair of the dog is you know the more you have the worse that can get.

7:36So what you need to do, this is positive, is rehydrate strategically. That means don't just down the water. You need to replace the electrolytes. So the type of drinks you choose. So if you're going for a cocktail, go for one with coconut water. I know it might have a few tiny minerals there, some potassium, something extra that can help, or a squeeze of citrus. If there's a lemon, don't just have it sitting there on the side of your glass of water in between your drinks, squeeze it in. Let's do what we can here to hydrate and be sensible. But then the next morning, it's like, should we squeeze some lemon into our hot water, for example?

8:11There's no miracle the next morning, but anything that gets you drinking water is good. Like anything that gets that hydration in and also just make sure you eat a meal. That is not a myth. You know, they say line your stomach. It is actually really important because it does slow the absorption of the alcohol and keeps your blood sugar levels stable. And I think the worst combination, and I notice it now, I mean, I can't handle alcohol anymore. But, you know, when I have one drink on an empty stomach, wow, does it, you feel it hit you fast, don't you? So that's definitely something to think about.

8:40The next day, like you mentioned, Ella, in the morning, you want to look after your gut health. You really, really want to be thinking, like, how can I help myself here? It is getting that good porridge bowl in that Ella talks about a lot with chia seeds, getting a broth in, some scrambled eggs, whatever you can do. the nausea side effect. I mean, gosh, nausea is a tough one. There's no worse feeling. Ginger and peppermint, those ancient old traditions. And actually, it's having sips of water frequently rather than downing it that can help some people rest. Don't do strenuous exercise. You know, the whole let's go sit in a sauna and sweat it out.

9:17It just doesn't work that way. You end up becoming more dehydrated and then your electrolyte balance is way off. so I think that the ultimate advice is just try and be sensible of your alcohol and what about hangover foods I feel like a kind of fry up is your classic people say that don't they but actually it can make it yeah it can make it worse but to be honest it's what people then end up craving there's a lot of research that shows that when your body isn't regulated and balanced well from the alcohol you end up making different choices really interestingly leaning towards things that hit dopamine responses and a lot of that and the choices we make is to do with a feel-good pick-me-up because we're depressed because alcohol is also a depressant and the stimulant side of things so we end up going for those foods whereas you actually just want to eat normally i love that okay so enjoy yourself but then the next morning finish earlier if they can finish earlier like if you stop drinking like an hour earlier than you normally would even that helps i love that yeah and then the next morning try and resist the urge to either go on like a really tough run or kind of slightly beat yourself up in that way.

10:18And equally on the other extreme, the fry-ups, the greasy spoon situation. Just go for a mindful walk if you want to feel good. Yeah, and drink loads of water, coconut water if you can, lots of lemon and something nourishing and cosy and delicious. Balanced with B vitamins, what you normally would eat, balanced. And why are the B vitamins good for a hangover? B vitamins are really important because you essentially, when you drink alcohol, you lose a lot of nourishment, water-soluble vitamins that come out in your urine because you start weeing more. you know the frequent urination that comes everyone goes to the toilet and the first vitamins we tend to lose are vitamin c b vitamins particularly but that's really important to replenish in the morning so that's the little tip there as well and those are quite easy because you're thinking like eggs whole grains pulses leafy greens fortified cereals like those whole grains so yeah quite easy one to focus on bingo and then um top tips staying well is look after the gut health hello i think for me but also pick your alcohol wisely so there is research that suggests that some alcohols hit your body in different ways and some contribute to headaches more than others but I'll go into that another time basically.

11:21Okay you can't say that that's such a spoiler you got it you can't leave us all hanging there. Okay right there is quite a lot on this okay are you guys ready first of all don't forget your fart walks after you roast dinner on Christmas day. Yeah for a little digestion help that Christmas walk it's really helpful. Okay you ready for the alcohols that may cause bigger headaches? Yeah yeah yeah I want to know. whiskey, brandy, dark rum. So those cocktails and red wine, Ella. It's a classic. Doesn't everyone love the mulled wine and red wine? Although mulled wine, the way it's brewed, you can evaporate a lot with the heat.

11:56So it's like if you're having a cold glass of red wine. Now, the lower likely the risk goes down of headaches when you have so tequila, white rum, gin, vodka is the absolute lowest. So, you know, the safe option that I think diet culture used to spin the whole vodka limo soda yeah vodka soda exactly but they are really good if you want to avoid hangover headaches and white wine is better than red wine and the reason why with clear spirits is because of the histamines and tannins in wine they trigger headaches and there is a difference in wine quality but when you're out at a bar you're unlikely to ask how your wine is produced and where it's made and all that sort of thing and then the drinks sugar and cocktails i mean i love cocktails oh i love a margarita it's a spice i'm so basic you go for the chili ones my husband loves those like extra spicy i've got to the point where i'm like no i mean like extra spicy like i want it to like burn my mouth oh my god i love it with loads of salt in the room you'll get a bigger hangover with that i know i know i'm such a like it's so funny i'm so basic i like don't drink but then i just love that so much that you i'll have like three in a row it's absolutely horrendous Do you know what?

13:06I mean, I'm on a par with you with more of a pina colada, a daiquiri, but I do love a basic glass of Prosecco or champagne. So it's not always about sulfites. And I think they've been in the press, haven't they? So often people blame sulfites, but more research shows that sulfites trigger asthma more than headaches and histamines are the bigger factor for headaches. So there you go. That's your headache roundup of alcohol. and if people wanted one thing to remember throughout the next month when you're eating more drinking more what is your like number one gentle nutrition reminder what the alcohol is not good for you no no I feel like this was hopefully I've realized that by now okay but in the season where you're like eating lots of mince pies and quality streets and alcohol and it's really easy to then feel well I've really looked after myself this year and now it's all gone out the window And then that's what creates, I think, this kind of insanity of January of people being like, I've got to change everything.

14:01If there's one little rule, but kind of habit you would keep up in amongst all the fun and enjoyment, what would it be? I have to say it's fiber, fiber and water. They work hand in hand together, like psychology and nutrition do. Fiber and hydration are your new pair. Festive fun can definitely still be fun with additional fiber in your diet because it helps keep your gut regular. that will reduce a lot of the symptoms you get from these poor diet habits we have around Christmas guts are sluggish this time of year and when I mean digestion slows we just don't eat well and we do not help our gut bugs which in turn have a knock-on effect on our mood our well-being our immune system you're more likely to get sick we have to nourish those gut bugs with fiber so think of your roast dinner as being a way to max out on it that trend you know fiber maxing or bean talking or whatever it is just I love that and I think also I would say as well well it's so busy it's like this is the moment to do your like Sunday night batch cook for example and then go out every night or whatever your plans are and enjoy everything but then have that batch cook for lunch you know when you're at your desk and you're working why not to have a big like cozy bean chili or some like really nice minestrone or whatever it is that's your moment get that fiber in yes and keep up those little habits and then enjoy everything else it's not about saying like we must be super pious like absolutely not and you can have the red wine just because i've given that list also i felt quite uncomfortable so just so you know i'm not advocating that everyone should go out and just drink off my low headache list no but it's helpful to know and then it's helpful as i said to know and i think that was that point like let's find a balance that helps us feel good where we join in the fun and all the rest of it but then the next morning we're like no we're gonna make a lovely porridge i do do this i had the mum's night out the other night I wore a Christmas dress for the first time.

15:45You looked amazing. I saw on Instagram. I did share it because I dress up once a year and that is basically me done for the whole year. Thanks, Ella. I was basically Mrs. Claus for an evening. And I do follow my own advice with cocktails. I do do that. I have the one welcome drink and then I'm on water in between and then I might switch to a vodka or a bubbly. I never tend to have like three or four of the same cocktail in a row because I know this stuff. And I always do feel a bit better than my husband the next day. So you can cheat the system. I'm not saying it's good for my health, but you can cheat.

16:16I love that. Well, it's helpful. Okay. Headline number two, we are looking at wellness washing, which I hadn't heard about before. Have you heard of this term? I've heard of a lot of washing, Ella. Yeah, green washing. I'm not so sure about wellness. Me neither. So I read this piece. It was in The Independent and it was written by their wellness editor, Amelia Lavinia. And I just thought it was really interesting, which is basically, she was saying how she's really surprised we're not using this term more given how much we're using things like green washing you know for corporations and or people who are kind of making all sorts of big claims about health and about sustainability when in reality you know x amounts going into landfill for example but i think it's really interesting and i just wanted to read a few quotes from it and then we'll go into it more but basically what she said is essentially many of us are prioritizing halls of cheaply made plastic items instead of actually improving our health outcomes we don't really need to be sleep maxing or doing the morning shed to be healthy and then she went on to write about how wellness influencers just completely dominate our social feeds and encourage us as we were saying to take part in these like performative trends like a morning shed like sleep maxing instead of actually learning how to take better care of ourselves and at the same time companies who are using these influencers paying them are getting away with flooding the market with useless items that allow us to cosplay as well which is kind of like make it look like we're healthy these are all quotes from her and she went on to talk about how wellness is this quote vast slippery concept because it basically refers to your own personal yardstick of feeling physically mentally and spiritually well and that looks different for everyone wellness encompasses pilates influences in lululemon leggings sipping matcha lattes neuroscientists publishing research for meditation biohacking bros tracking their sleep scores menopausal cold water swimmers seeking relief from symptoms and brand founders building products to meet their own specific health needs And that breadth plus the lack of defining credentials is exactly what makes it right for exploitation.

18:13Can I just add before you continue on it that China recently, and I think we were going to put in, we haven't had time, have said that only people with qualifications can discuss nutrition and health tips on their social media platforms. And that's been put into China. What she's saying here is so, so valid. Why can't wellness be like we're saying, just add in nuts, beans, pulses? Exactly. And she's basically saying like wellness washing is essentially like brands using misleading marketing to make you believe a product or service is good for you when it's probably neutral at best, harmful at worst or entirely unrelated to health.

18:47And companies now putting kind of wellness into anything and everything. Like, do you see it? Sometimes I saw an advert for a cleaning product the other day that was just comical. It's like a kitchen spray that said contains one plant based ingredient. Oh, good girl. I remember Herbal Essences did a gluten free shampoo. What? Oh, yeah. this is a while ago see i can see that um i am into my non-toxic cleaning products i know but one plant-based ingredient is wellness washing that doesn't make it non-toxic you're right it could be anything of how many a fragrant fresh mint leaf yeah like 0.001 percent fresh mint but it basically it's like we're kind of doing a lot of repackaging of basic goods as wellness essentials or like creating kind of quite cheap imitation products that can exploit workers the planet and like ultimately i think it's like the chewing gum the vitamin enriched chewing gum 100 all these supplements we're getting people talking about we've got loads of it in thursday's q a episode of this like essentially it's just like it's really preying on the fact that we're overwhelmed overstimulated struggling with our health habits and as a result we're constantly being told well you've got to buy this and you just need this and you must have this in your cupboard and essentially if you're not wearing the right kit and doing your matcha latte and taking this supplement and having this like x amount subscription to greens then you're not really doing wellness and what we know is that all the research isn't about that the research is about 20 minute walks the research is about Mediterranean plant-rich diet the research is about chatting with your friend and then getting a decent sleep like it's actually not in any of these items but the world we live in kind of makes us feel that and there is a lot of wellness washing and I think people probably need to be called out on it.

20:29But this is the wellness scoop. This is why we're here. This is the exact reason we exist because it's just wellness washing. I know. So maybe we need to like define our mission using this term because I thought it was so good. And she talked a lot as well about the psychology that makes us really vulnerable to it. Like that kind of authority bias when brands start using sort of medical style branding or terminology and confirmation bias when we just want a product to work because we want a fix for our skin or for our sleep and so we just want to know what it's I mean eyes or something on Instagram when I was on the train this morning and it was someone being like this three things have transformed my skin and it was just three affiliate links after another and maybe they have but the problem is it's now impossible to know that's also a Black Friday sellout at the time we're recording this like these three things help my skin here are my links yeah and there's just so many gray areas and what I liked is how she said which I think is so we talk about a lot but i think it's an important point is that we're made to believe we need these things and they're probably neutral at best which is i think what so many things we're asked about are it's like it's expensive it's probably not harmful but it's not going to have the benefits you want it to and it's not worth it harmful at worth or entirely unrelated to your health just so many of these things will do nothing yeah now it's become because of the rise of social media and the way we market products and the budgets that are going towards influencers or different types of spends Like we said, there's no regulation here.

21:51There is no regulation. In the skincare industry, there's not enough regulation online. For doctors, there's not enough regulation. For nutrition professionals, there's definitely nowhere near enough regulation. It's interesting because I've been asked to, and I'll give feedback on it next week, but I'm filming for ITV tonight this week. So cool. I'm doing a big segment. She slipped that in in such a nonchalant way. I totally forgot. What's it on? Wellness. And the first question is, I remember I looked at the brief this morning on the train because I'm trying to memorize things. What does wellness mean to you?

22:21So maybe I'll try and slip in a bit about wellness washing. What does wellness mean to you, Rie? Wellness to me simply means trying to live healthily to a ripe old age. It means just trying to embrace your social life and your nutrition and health. It's all of it, isn't it? It's the 360 degree picture. But sadly, what wellness means in society is wellness washing now. I think exactly what you've just said. And it's given me good food for thought that I'll try and slip in because this program is going to air. I think end of December all for the new year new me phase which we know is coming but I'm really blessed to have this big segment on there and I'm really hoping I can get some good stuff across and we have to tell us all when it is so we can tune in and watch it I will let you know and this has really given me food for thought anyone listening let us know what wellness washing you see let us know and how you see it because as I said I'm not just like shouting at everyone or criticising or trying to be on a soapbox but I just thought it was a really nice way of calling out the irony and the kind of ridiculous nature of the industry at this point where we're just overwhelmed by now needing to buy more stuff to be well when we're failing collectively.

23:26I don't mean individually, but failing at the basics. Like if we can't get our five a day, like why do we need some more gadgets and gizmos? And we don't need a green powder to do it either. That's not going to fix the problem. Sauté some leeks. So it kind of... Sauté leeks. I really like some leeks. Do you know what? I made leeks, butternut squash, and I put some veggie sausages in because the kids really want sausages at the moment, which is really interesting, you know, this time of year. And I thought, right, I'm going to put those in the tray. Absolutely blooming delicious. I love leeks that have like been roasted in olive oil or sauteed in a pan.

23:57Me too. I thought I had nothing left in the fridge and so I made this kind of very simple soup last night, but I had loads of chillies left and I had some leeks and I had some shallots and garlic. So I sauteed, yeah, shallots and garlic, leek and my chillies, which turned out to be like spicy. you are loving the spice we've gone from spicy margaritas I know but this was where you know when just sometimes the packet's like way beyond what it normally is I'm very impressed though because I cannot handle spice like you and just a big jar of um harricot beans with the stock of the jar and I just simmered them down for ages I had a little bit of chimichurri left for something else done in tiny bit of that it was so simple lots of lemon at the end but it was this like brothy beans, a little bit of chimichurri on the top.

24:42So simple, so delicious. The leeks added lots of depth. But all I'm saying, I'm joking about the leeks, but like that is actually wellness. That's wellness. And we like sat down, we had a nice conversation. It was very peaceful. That is wellness. Yeah. We had so many plants. Play Enya. Have you played Enya yet? No, I need to do that. She needs to play Enya. I'm very much on the like, now that's what we call Christmas throwbacks. Yeah. Oh no, I've also got, yeah, the Christmas music, the first of December hits. I'm like, Christmas songs.

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27:00Save up to 40 % your first year. Visit lifelock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. Headline three, which actually leads on nicely from wellness washing. And it is the ultra processed food evidence, the three papers that came out by The Lancet. I have to say, when I was doing this and looking at the brief last week, I did actually just feel like hitting my head against the wall like just not to kind of be really Debbie down every week no but I felt it even more sometimes I feel like yes I'm going to change the world we just need to get Britain cooking again I'm going to inspire people this is great and it's such like a career motivation but you are Ella don't be too dimmerized you're so sweet sometimes I'm like literally what is the point because the whole absurdity of highlighting wellness washing and the like size of the wellness industry and the trillion dollars that are being spent on kind of nonsense it's not always nonsense but kind of often nonsense when we struggle so much to yeah one in ten teenagers managing out there five a day etc etc but it's also the issue we discussed last week where women go in the workforce upf food comes in who's doing the cooking at home both people aren't contributing in the same way they used to and then things just slide.

28:12And so suddenly it's like we, the scale of the UPFs is so concerning. We're going to get into it now. I mean, it's absolutely devastating. So worrying. The trajectory we're on is so awful. No one seems to want to make any changes from a governmental level, which is so negligent, for want of a better word. And then at the same time, people are being peer pressured into spending absurd amounts of money and a cost of living crisis on things that they don't need while we can't cook our leeks. Oh, it makes me angry. Oh, and I just, yeah. Anyway, let's get into it. I just want to say like in amongst all of this, like I ultimately think it's funny.

28:46I was talking to my husband last week about this a lot. I was like, I'm not trying to be overly basic. I'm not trying to be reductive in the scale of the challenge here. But fundamentally, for the vast majority of people, the answer is actually so simple. We just need to cook from scratch more. And it's how do we find joy in like making a 10 minute meal? Not complicated cooking. But how do we find a bit of joy, a bit of enjoyment in making a 10, 15 minute meal at the end of the day and remembering that that simple cooking is brilliant. It doesn't need to be like four hour stuff. It's not really complicated.

29:20It's a handful of ingredients coming together. But it needs the help of government because the infrastructure for parents, working parents, it just isn't there. It's terrible. Anyway, let's get into this. So basically what happened, I'm sure all of you guys saw a plethora of headlines about UPFs over the last few weeks. But they were quite big, like UPFs are going to kill you. Yeah, they were mega. Which were quite big headlines. UPFs have caused a pandemic of chronic diseases. Yes. I think that word pandemic now creates a shudder effect, doesn't it? Oh my goodness, never again. Anyways, so essentially what happened was a team of international experts published this global review of research into ultra-processed foods.

30:00at the end of November. And that's what triggered this wave of headlines because what happened, it went into the Lancet, which is obviously one of the most preeminent medical journals, and it wasn't a single study. It was the largest synthesis we've ever seen. So we've got 43 global researchers analysing 104 long-term studies on the impact. So they're trying to map out this total impact, looking at over 100 studies of UPFs, looking at chronic disease, organ function, mortality rates, the food systems, global policies. And that's why there were so many headlines is because it wasn't just one new study.

30:35We had three huge papers they presented. Exactly. Looking at over 100 studies. So there was just this enormous amount of information that came out. And the conclusions were, I mean, stark is a nice way of putting it. It is just unbelievable because, you know, I think it's the problem that we've discussed that UPFs do displace fresh foods, you know, and home-cooked meals. like you've just said, worldwide though, and that the company is responsible. Well, of course they do. They just put profit above all else. But that is incentivized by the different government systems in every country that takes the money from them.

31:07And the profit angle, Ella, I know that you understand more than anyone, is so important because the Lancet series went deep into the economics behind UPFs. And what I found really shocking being sat there as a health professional was the fact that alongside the main review of all the health outcomes, you know, the links to obviously all the comorbidities of obesity for start offs, you know, heart disease, diabetes, you know, all of it. And the main review found that more than 50 percent of the 2.9 trillion paid to shareholders by food corporations, and that was between the years of 1962 and 2021, came from UPF manufacturers alone.

31:45So essentially over 1.4 trillion in shareholder payouts are from products scientists now say harm every organ in your body. And that's the marketing spend. They're the people that have the budget and the money. And for me as a health professional, I was sat there that night thinking all of the majority of nutrition courses or places when you graduate from university are with these companies. Nestle, Glaxo, all these huge companies. Some do really good research. I'll give it to Danone. I love their research angle, the biome lab they have, all of it. But some of them just are not contributing or doing enough.