Botox, #SkinnyTok & Is All Sugar the Same?

28:32And my sense is because so much of it isn't real. What you see so much of people's image online and when it's online, you can apply filters. You've obviously got hair and makeup, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But also a lot of people having work that they're not saying about opening. Now it's their prerogative, whether or not they openly say it. But I think there's always been a question. Obviously the Kardashian-Jenner family have been kind of a center point of the conversation in terms of people feel they've had a lot of procedures and work done, but they have always said they haven't. And Kylie Jenner has come out and has said, yep, I had a boob job essentially.

29:08This is what I asked my surgeon for because someone asked her for exactly what she asked the surgeon for so that they could get the same boob job. Wow. And so she said who the doctor was and exactly what she asked for. And then Kris Jenner has been all over the papers and the media in the last week for having some kind of mega facelift or something along those lines. I missed all that. And again, she has confirmed, yep, she has had work done. And anyway, I just wanted to say, I think that's brilliant because I was listening to a podcast and people were like, is it good? Is it not good? And I was like, yes, it is good because again, this whole relenting pressure, I think people feel like they should wake up in the morning and look like someone who's had, you know, a top surgeon perform work on them and have had two hours to do hair and makeup and has had a stylist and has had the clothes fitted to them.

29:55And again, it's like, that isn't what real life looks like ever. No, it's not. Do you know, I've got two recommendations for you all on this subject. Catherine Ryan has the most insanely funny, brilliant podcast called What's Your Age or something and Katie Price was on it and I was listening to it in the car when I was driving to London yesterday and Catherine brings this real element of cynicism and humor in such an intelligent way in the way she discusses and she's so transparent with work that she's had done the juggles of real life parenthood and Katie Price still came out who we know who's very transparent with all her surgeries I mean her whole life has been in the press with the plastic surgery she's had.

30:37She's so transparent and said, I still don't look at myself in the mirror and think I'm attractive. And she said, I've had so many surgeries done. She said, the problem is if I see something I don't like, and I quote, she said, I look in the mirror, I see something on my face I don't like. I know I can book in the next day to get it fixed and get it changed. And it almost becomes this addictive cycle. And then the second podcast that I listened to, even though I'm not in the age range is Lisa Snowden and Andy's podcast. we're not getting any younger and it's targeted at 50 plus because the first question is how do you feel at 50 do you feel young at 50 and it's a really good conversation so they're two good listens if you're into this topic I think they're different I love that apparently Katie Price has had 17 boob jobs so yeah she mentioned um the press have the number incorrect and she mentioned that on the podcast I can't remember how many it is but I remember her saying that in the car yesterday so yeah go and have a listen it is so important to me that my home feels like a calm and cozy sanctuary from the chaos of the world i found that beyond decorating sensory things like warm smells and soft textures make the biggest impact for that and especially as it cools down outside i'm looking for the best ways to snuggle up on my couch i recently moved and one of the very first things I added to my new living room was my bubble cuddle blanket from Cozy Earth.

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33:11Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from EPCLIS. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBCLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintained skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. EBCLIS, LibriKizumab, LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies.

34:10Just a quick moment of your time to share that my new book, The Unprocessed Plate, will be out this Thursday. it's come around very quickly and this is a book about lifting you up being positive empowering you because the more we know the more we understand the better food choices we can make for our families for our own individual health now the book has 60 recipes in the back and will be your ultimate go-to guide i even have how to write a shopping list how to stock your kitchen what to look out for on the go so many different areas but i'm so so grateful for all the support I've received about the unprocessed plate so far.

34:45And I can't wait to see it landing in your hands this Thursday, June the 19th. I hope you like it. Right. Headline number three, we'll keep this one short and sweet, but TED Talks are getting shorter. What does it say about our attention spans? We have talked a lot about our shortening attention spans over the last few months. So many articles about this, remember the ones from the Financial Times we picked up about how we've reached peak intelligence and it's all downhill from there. But I thought this article was just an interesting add on to that conversation, which is that TED Talks, which obviously were famous for their 18 minute format, and now being trimmed down to as little as three minutes, because it's basically now impossible to hold the world's attention for a full 18 minutes.

35:32I mean, all I can say is I did a TED Talk and I had to memorize an 18 minute long speech. So three minutes sounds way more doable than the 18 minutes I practiced and rehearsed. But you know, you're right, Ella, it's not just TED, we're seeing the shift everywhere, short form videos online, you know, one minute explainers, soundbites on social. It's so interesting, because the article talks about how our brains are being retrained to crave novelty and constantly switching between tabs or feeds and platforms. And we just can't focus deeply. And I even find it, I posted a video yesterday online about myth busting for UPFs.

36:10And it was actually really long. And I knew it just wouldn't do well. But I thought I'm going to put out there because this is what I do. I want to give interesting content for those that actually want to see it. And sure enough, it's like a fraction of the reach that you'd get if you did a 20 second clip versus two minutes or three minutes. So our focus is gone. But the big stat, so in the piece two, a 2022 study by King's College London found that 49 % of people thought their attention span was shorter than it used to be. I can agree with that. And 50 % wrongly believe the average adult attention span today is just eight seconds.

36:48So, Anna, I think it shows we've internalized this idea. And even if the science doesn't fully back it up, we believe it's true. Exactly. We believe we can only concentrate for eight seconds. And actually, there's a neuroscientist they quoted in the article that I was reading. um i forget which because this was picked up again everywhere i forget which one so i apologize that but they called this a cognitive tax it's basically like the cognitive tax that our brain is paying every single day because it's processing just way too much information so we just don't have the time to absorb anything and i actually just wanted to pick up on what you were saying with your long form video yeah versus like an eight second viral cottage cheese situation which is that i guess it's just we talked obviously last week about how much information online is wrong and i think it's such a great example of that, which is that ultimately so little in life and nutrition and health science is the same as black and white.

37:39Like there's so much nuance in all of this. There's so many caveats. There isn't like this one simple answer to anything, but an eight second video only gives space for one second. You know, it's like you can't bring nuance to eight seconds. It's in fact impossible. It's why actually, if we do go back to, you know, I am really proud of my book and the work I'm able to put out there, but how many people get the opportunity to write a book where you can display a lot more information if we're so reliant now on these videos in terms of getting health advice as well it is just really worrying we're just rushing through information and we don't even get to the point where we can make changes stick anymore this is why i'm obsessed with the doing this show with you because i think it just i don't know it feels so positive and i hope uplifting for you guys listening but it does feel like we're give space for nuance you know the whole point of like the red meat studies we're not saying never eat a piece of red meat ever again but we are saying like, just be conscious of where it comes from.

38:34And, you know, some of those benefits may not actually be exactly what it says. And I think it's such a great example. And when it's like, please follow the show, rate the show, share the show is because we just love being able to have an hour long conversation with you all about this. And so we just want it to grow and continue. Okay, Marie, tell us headline four. This was actually really positive. Again, we've got some really lovely positive nuggets here in terms of the end goal. So free school meals to expand and what this could mean for families. So Ella, did you see this in the paper? I feel like it was everywhere.

39:07And there's a proposal that basically all children in England whose families are on universal credit, and that basically means it will support up to 1.7 million children with a free school meal. It's brilliant. It really is. Ultimately, you know, we know that unfortunately far too many children, their kind of core meal, their hot meal, their big meal each day is at school. So to give this to more children is absolutely amazing. I mean, not to be like a negative Nancy here, but I think it really highlights the importance of that meal being nutritious and probably more nutritious than it currently is.

39:39Nonetheless, it's a really positive change. And you know what, in a world where headlines, not just in health and wellness, I mean, like across the board feel generally quite terrifying at the moment. And there feels like a inherent lack of positivity. Seeing something like this, just it's a good thing, isn't it? I just couldn't agree more. And I know some of the feedback from our scandal episode, which did so well, we reached number two again, how incredible was the political stance on it. I'm not sure if so many people like that. It's very difficult when a headline is linked to politics. And obviously for Ella and I, we're just discussing the headline itself.

40:13But I do think that despite that, this is so wonderful. We have to remember that every child deserves access to nutritious food in this country. And when you have a nutritious meal, you can get improved concentration and more people attend school to begin with, you know, stronger long-term health outcomes, Ella. It's just such a simple but powerful intervention. And I'm so delighted for it. Me too. I really am. And also just like, as a side note, obviously this is definitely not going to become anywhere like the rest is politics, but also like the government politics, like it is interwoven with the industry.

40:48And I think it would be remiss, short-sighted, deeply reductive, almost like missing the point if we never brought that into the conversation. Certainly that's how I feel. Well, this podcast may run through many different governments, guys. So we might have loads of different angles on everything. Let's see how long we go for. I was also going to say, Ella, on another pickup, I tried the five minutes of non-doing, which I forgot to say at the beginning. And guess what happened? What? I fell asleep. Love it. I felt like an old lady. I sat on the sofa outside of my garden, thought, you know what?

41:26I'm not reaching for my phone. I'm obviously watching the kids, but I think I was so exhausted. I fell asleep and I got woken up. This is an awful story. I don't know why I'm adding this to the podcast today. My cat had jumped on me, meowed and put a mouse next to me on the sofa. Dead or alive? A dead mouse. You can imagine my reaction. That is what happened in my five minutes of non-doing, guys. But how wonderful the practice of five minutes of non-doing. Let's move on to what's trending in wellness.

41:59Okay, we've got just one trend this week because it's a really big one. and the headline reads, TikTok bans hashtag skinny talk and the cult of the quote unquote skinny girl. And funnily enough, I actually wanted to talk about skinny talk and started putting it in the show notes before this band came in. So it was very timely, which is absolutely mad. And there had been this, I don't know if you had come across that. There was this article in a online publication called The Cut, which is part of the New York Times group. And they had basically done this kind of deep dive into a 23 year old model and influencer.

42:41She's called Liv Schmidt. I think that's how you say her surname. And it basically was a kind of huge expose on skinny talk and this online skinny culture and what it means. And actually I took quite a deep dive into her content to understand what it was all about. And this was before it got banned after the hashtag ban. And it really was absolutely staggering. She had built a subscriber based Instagram community called the Skinny Society. It charged$20 a month for access to her food diaries, workout routines, and private group chats. And basically the private group chats is where all the action for want of a better word was happening.

43:24And you had this huge number of people in there and they were all sharing with each other skinny inspiration basically, and like quotes and inspiration to not eat certain things. And lots of the cut basically revealed that actually they had done this investigative piece into all of the different group chats and showed loads of people were underage. There were people posting about their high school graduation in there, sharing super, super restrictive meal plans, competing as to who could eat less, posting about feeling dizzy, fatigued, losing hair. There was once a former subscriber, a woman called Emma.

44:00She's a 37-year-old teacher. She was talking directly to the about her experience in the group. And she said, quote unquote, they're all so obsessive. So it's hard not to become obsessive too. It's like this little cult of being skinny. And I think obviously it wasn't just this woman Liv Schmidt in there she was huge she had over 755 ,000 subscribers followers on TikTok apparently earning more than$130 ,000 a month for these subscriptions but I think she was the kind of key driver of skinny talk and it was just I don't know why I was so surprised by it I guess all things considered I just feel sad I just feel so sad it's clearly disordered eating, you know, and for it to be disguised in a community online in this way, and it attracts vulnerable individuals and young people that really should be focusing on their school, not trying to shrink down.

44:52What's so, so disturbing is I wonder, does just banning the hashtag stop the society itself? Probably not, right? I'm guessing she can still function and do this and still profit off it and prey on people's eating disorders. Yes. So her TikTok, as far as I understand, when I looked into this, this was yesterday, was now a private account. So you have to click to do it. But I saw in Marie Claire yesterday, TikTok banned Skinny Talk, but a different spelling of Skinny Talk, S-K-N-I-Y Talk, quickly took its place, which I think just summarizes the whole thing. So it's been banned, but people have immediately essentially come back with another thing.

45:33And I think it's worth noting TikTok's been downloaded more than 3.5 billion times, which in itself is extraordinary. But nearly half of those users, so over one and a half billion of the users are between 18 and 24. So they are really, really young. And obviously we know, again, like one in six children, this is in the UK and young, but one in six children, young people in the UK now experience mental health issues. And we all know these different online pressures and these visual pressures we were talking about earlier. And I think when you just put it all together it's really scary and i think people were campaigning for this to be banned it has now been banned obviously that is inherently positive but obviously as we've seen people have just come in with a different version of the same thing it's not enough to ban a hashtag they need to take these accounts down so not on tiktok but meta have their spokesperson andy stone posted on x saying x is obviously what twitter's now called but he said this account is no longer able to offer subscriptions or use any of our monetization tools and we've restricted it.

46:38So it's only visible to people over 18. I think it's just really shocking how much of this community exists. And I think, as you said, it's this really complicated thing where when you first see it on the surface, it's like, certainly what I saw was quotes about like kind of essentially being your best self, which you're like, okay. And then you start to get into it. And as we see, it's like competitive restriction. And that's so disturbing and concerning. It's like the diet culture of the noughties and nineties coming back on TikTok, the drive for thinness, the competitive, like the old magazines, the headlines on which celebrities lost the most weight, putting their weight.

47:19You remember that Chris Evans clip where they weigh Victoria Beckham's, like, oh, well done. You lost your weight after your baby. It's so, so toxic. but what's so scary to me is that that was a moment on tv whereas now it's the 24 7 access to the same conversation and that obviously just ramps up to a totally different degree anyway it's so far from what health and wellness is meant it is very far from it guys this is a deceptive hashtag and community i really hope nobody and i really feel sad if you are really struggling there is help out there there are so many free outlets as well in this country you've got beat of course, that you can go and check out.

47:59They've got the most incredible website. You've got the equivalent to that, NIDA, I think it's called in America. And every country should have its own eating disorder charities, but we'll have, I'm sure they're dealing with this and getting issues related to this every day. Body image starts as young as three in children, especially young girls with how they feel about themselves. That's the statistics we have. So So I'm glad that you shone a light on this, Ella. Thank you for raising our awareness on this. I'd call it a dangerous trend. It really is. And I have to say, the cut, you can read some articles before it goes behind a paywall.

48:36And I really recommend this article on the cult that was behind Skinny Talk. I'll put it in the show notes because it's quite a long, but just a really interesting read and what was going on and how toxic it was. They did a really good investigation into it, which was a huge part of getting this hashtag band. Thank you, Ella. Thank you for bringing that up. Let's move on to listener questions. But first, I've got an interesting comment that we had about the sauna episode. Okay, tell us. So we had a comment saying, just so you know, I'm from Scandinavia, and we're not allowed to wear swimwear in saunas because of the plastic and the temperature.

49:14So of course, they all go naked with a towel, like we described that clip from Frozen, the musical, running in and out of the sauna just with your towel covering you. But apparently that's because of the plastic. So I had to delve into Ella and I looked a little bit further. And actually, the main reason behind going naked into a sauna is more hygienic than anything else because of the sweat and the body oils accumulating like on a sauna bench. People want you to have a towel around your skin and just with your skin rather than anything else. But the clothes, because clothes trap heat and clothes obviously trap sweat.

49:50But I will say that makes sense to me with the plastic in swimwear. I think a lot of us aren't aware that whilst this comment came from a place about plastics, it just is complete common sense and part of the culture. So there's a cultural norm that nudity and saunas is deeply ingrained in some cultures like Finland purely because you know everyone's meant to be equal in their natural state regardless of appearance or attire so it's like a sense of unity and mutual acceptance I mean I'm not confident to go into a sauna naked I'm just throwing that out there but I love the philosophy behind it I love it kind of weirdly tracks back to the smile being more effective than Botox and that whole conversation just just accepting all of us for who we are maybe our headline should be nudity and smile more get nude and smile more but we do have a listener question which leads on actually because it was from one of our listeners in finland so thank you very much she said she's a big fan and the podcast has helped her work on her relationship with food which is just incredible to hear ella but she is confused about sugar because a lot of the recipes she sees she says are using maple syrup or coconut sugar and does it mean they're better it's a really great question and i'm sure we could spend a deep dive on it but reimagine you can give us like a brilliant succinct and then we could probably do a deep dive on it another day what is the science sugar sugar ella i mean i think ultimately there's a quality of sugar so if you use coconut sugar there's small traces of vitamins and minerals within that but is it enough to actually say eat sugar to get those vitamins and minerals no you know you're better off getting it from fruit veg and whole grains but if you look at things like agave syrup which is marketed as a healthier alternative it's actually one of the worst sugar alternatives purely because sugar in itself as a molecule is made of 50 % glucose and 50 % fructose and I think we need to spend a different episode to go into the science on the reasoning behind that actually because it's a lot there's also ethical conversations with sugar.

52:00The reason I choose maple syrup predominantly at home is because of the sustainability aspect. But again, there's a quality of maple. It's still the same sugar or hit my system in a similar way to regular cane sugar. But maple syrup doesn't involve using the bees. And as we know, bees are becoming endangered in this country. We need to look after our bees. We really need to protect them because nearly all the food we get is because of bees and pollination. And there's a difference again, in the type of honey you find in a plastic squeezy bottle versus honey you get in a glass jar, purely because things are either polyfloral, meaning the bees gone to many different flowers, or are they from a monofloral area, which is the links that people say between hay fever and local honey.

52:47There's potential links with how they pollinate. There's some health benefits with manuka honey, but it's really expensive, but there's some antibacterial qualities there but you don't get those benefits in the regular honey and squeezy jars and I feel like marketing really goes for it with honey and honey's really good for you honey's great for you well actually it's still sugar and it's not doing our bees any good to be purchasing this highly refined honey and it's highly dependent on which kind you buy as you're saying yeah absolutely um so yeah I'll get into the science another time on sugar but just so you know, sugar's a way more complex issue as well.

53:24But sugar is sugar. And my stance is use what you enjoy that tastes good, that's ethical. What about high fructose corn syrup? Obviously, that's not really an issue in the UK or Europe as much, but obviously that's used so widely in the US. And the fructose element of that is more of a challenge, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I would say UPF central there, we're talking about a highly refined source of sugar which hits your bloodstream really quickly that is not good for our health and we don't use it actually in the UK for that very reason but the equivalent in the health marketing is agave syrup and golden syrup and things that have gone through a lot of structural change in the processing of the sugar itself so I would try and steer clear of high fructose corn syrup if you're in the states or other countries that use it a lot when you see them in the ingredients list and I guess again Again, this is where this could become like an hour long conversation in and of itself.

54:19But I think one of the things you mentioned when we were talking about that red meat study earlier, that actually, again, we're talking about single food in isolation, which is not how anyone eats, nor is that the kind of indicator of your diet. But I think, again, the same is relevant here, where it's actually like, what's the food matrix? Because if you're having healthy fats and lots of fiber, that's what's going to really make a difference in terms of the impact of sugar versus if it's all highly refined, and then you're going to get these much bigger blood sugar spikes, which can make you feel quite tired.

54:50A hundred percent. I mean, sometimes, you know, I mean, to give you any reassurance, I'm a nutritionist. I have a very good general diet. I do cook with regular sugar sometimes in recipes. There's no harm in using it. If your diet is good, like Ella said, look at the context of your life and what's working for you. But a lot of these marketing things on sugar alternatives are just trying to sell you sugar. I will say maple syrup is one of the most delicious flavors in the world. I love maple syrup. And again, you've got to be partial to that taste because it's very distinctive. And it is actually the most, I'd say, ethical option over honey.

55:27I would say if you're looking at it from that way and you want to do a bit for the planet, that's probably a better one to pick than honey. I'll tell you what, my sister-in-law is Canadian and she bought that from Canada, from where her brother lives in rural Canada on a farm. Fresh maple syrup from their tree. What does she put one of those metal things in it? Like pours out. Yeah, it was sensational. Anyway, I am full of unnecessary sides today, but it really was the best. You know what? I think our episode today has been the complete opposite to the one last week with just so many different pickups, but it's been a really interesting one for us to discuss.

56:01I've loved it. Me too. Let us know what you guys think. As always, thank you for being here. And as we've said, we just love doing this show. So the more you can share it, follow us, rate it, review it, post a comment, the bigger the reach that we'll get. So thank you, guys. We really appreciate it and have a brilliant, brilliant day.

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57:05See Experian.com for details. Applying for cards labeled No Ding Decline won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially approved. Yo, this is important, man. My favorite Lululemon shorts, the ones you got me back in the day, I think they're pace breakers, the ones with all the pockets. Well, I just got back from vacation, and I think I left them in my hotel room. And, dude, I need to replace these shorts. I wear them, like, every day with that Lulu hoodie you got me. Could you send me the link to where you got them? Thanks, bro. Talk soon. Looking for your newest go-tos? Shop Lululemon's bestsellers now at lululemon.com.

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