Can You Be Healthy and Thin? Hair Loss & Wellness Pressure

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1:58Welcome to The Wellness Scoop. You're now twice a weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And we're both here as your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And we are discussing some of the most incredible questions from all of our lovely listeners and discussing what we have been up to every single week. So let's go. Let's go. So, Rhi, OK, sorry, my nearly seven-year-old daughter is obsessed with cheerleaders at the moment. And all she does at the moment is go, let's go, let's go. Just wait till she's older and she's watching Bring It On. Do you think they'll even still be watching that?

2:32Oh, my gosh, I know. Anyway, sorry, when you said let's go, the only thing. Let's go. Not let it go. Mills family. Anyway, sorry. This is a real digression. Yes, Rhi, have you got any recommendations for us? I actually do for a change. I've been remaking because I know when this comes out, it's really hot. Yes. So last week I was on the kind of like chilies. I've made my like chocolate chili from my fiber formula. But, you know, I've been on it with the starchy, lovely, healthy and nourishing meals, I may add. But my little one's turned four, which is a huge milestone. And I have been salad queen, but in a way the kids like it.

3:13And I can't mix the salads with the potatoes at the moment i have to have the bowl of the potatoes on the side i quite like that yeah like like just a big bowl of new potatoes you know and then they like add in the butter i'm obsessed with new potatoes at the moment jersey royals yeah so good when they're tender you do need to smother them in like i do with olive oil but or butter but i do think you need like excessive amounts of that also lots and lots of salt and pepper but then like i've been putting in um some chimichurri or some capers like basil, loads of herbs. I'm hot honey obsessed still, even in the heat wave.

3:47So I'm finding... I got a sriracha hot honey last week. Did you? Oh, do you think I'd like... Would that be too spicy for me? This one is quite spicy. It's from that... What's that brand called? Just have a look up the brand while I discuss this. My pregnancy cravings. I'm having spicy food and I did pre-pregnancy. How strange is that? Okay, I might go. So it's called the Wilder Kitchen. I feel like that hot honey is outrageous. Thank you. Well, when I'm allowed to dose up on spicy food, You have to be careful up until the last few stages. I will definitely be reaching out. Honestly, tips for the hot weather, everybody.

4:20Freezing your fruit in chocolate or whatever you want to do. Fresh fruit juice, ice solids. I've been actually making freshly squeezed orange juice at home. I've been making orange cakes with the whole orange and not wasting them. That's my favorite bake at the moment that I've done a few times. The recipe's on the gram. Oh, and on Retrition Plus, our menopause journey started. Yay, and how's it going? so well oh my god i love it it's the most incredible community we've had a few journey requests in the inbox for you and particularly things like fertility amazing which i know you're thinking about we're doing going to do a fertility one i do realize how triggering these conversations can be just so everyone knows we all are at different stages with our journey our health and there will be something for everyone on nutrition plus there's always a link in the show notes but what i'll say is in this hot weather it was just a little reminder that your appetite does dip and that's natural or it might go the other way but potatoes cooled down then reheated resistant starch hella reaches that bottom colon area feeds our lovely gut bugs and is really beneficial for our gut lining that's my shout out love it do you know what we've been making obsessively is watermelon juice so yum just buy a big chunky watermelon blend up fresh mint so nice and they're totally optional do you freeze it you know there's people on instagram that are i probably should i actually yeah i actually haven't been i just blend watermelon mint some honey ice and um sometimes a little bit of cucumber i then strain it because i do think that is nicer strained personally i love a smoothie but this kind of thing anyway so good when it's hot so thirst quenching also homemade lemonade again like so good it's so simple it's literally lemon ice um again i do a little bit of honey mint in there amazing do you know what's funny just pretty said laminade.

6:09My eldest will eat a whole lime raw, a whole lemon raw. With the skin? Oh, yeah. Love it. And I mean, it's bizarre. That is, I don't want to say your child's bizarre. No, no, it is bizarre. That feels unusual. He's also the one that's happy with the kiwi skin, you know, whereas my youngest won't. Or strawberries, he'll eat the green bit on top. He's very good like that, actually. I always keep the green bit on in smoothies and things. Yeah, but no, he will. Yeah, I wouldn't eat it. No, no, not what I used to say. I don't know, he's not, I've not modeled this behavior, let me just say. So actually having things like that are really, really helpful ways of using the whole fruit as well.

6:42If you do blitz it up, I'm definitely going to try a slushie. I've lost my train of thought of where I was going with his weird food behaviours. But it's been really helpful in the hot weather because he definitely loves his fruit and veg. And that's, I know that's really rare, by the way. Don't worry, my youngest isn't exactly the same. Mine also, like, every day. Love this, hate this, love this, hate this. I mean, I swear they do it just to challenge you. Right, we have some incredible recommendations from you, Maria. Ella, do you want to read this one out first? Yes, Maria has such a nice recommendation.

7:10I'm going to go and do it when I get home tonight. She said, she loved that we were talking about meditation and how I had said that things like self-affirmations as part of that help with self-esteem. I have also found guided meditations to be an incredibly powerful emotional tool for building self-confidence. For anyone else who is looking to do the same and doesn't know where to start, I highly recommend Tara Brack's RAIN Meditations on YouTube. RAIN stands for Recognize, Allow, Investigate and Nurture. they're 15 minute videos that can help connect mind and body i found it to be gentle but revelatory meditation technique that's allowed me to address some ugly feelings i feel so much lighter and more open as a person and i can't recommend it enough so i love that so that's tara brack and her rain meditations on youtube i have heard so much about her haven't ever done her meditations so this is my prompt to do it i can't wait i love that and then i've got one from Kate in St.

8:02Ives in Cambridge. She said, Ella, I hope you had a lovely birthday. Thank you. There you go. I was listening to your podcast yesterday and re-mentioned Jane Goodall. I just listened to her Desert Island Discs and brought her book Reason for Hope. If you haven't heard her on Desert Island Discs, I can recommend it. You should. I think you're both very triggered by anything to do with animal cruelty. It can be a little tough in places, but it's very inspiring. so I can't wait to read her book. So there's a little rec for us for a new book. It's nice to have some positive things when things seem gloomy.

8:36I think a big rec though is for the Desert Island Discs podcast episode with Jane Goodall which I love Desert Island Discs. Haven't listened to it in a while so that's a very nice prompt. Probably they have Jane Goodall on. I mean that's amazing.

8:50Okay guys our first question today is the one that we told you about Monday which the headline headline the subject line of this question was is thin and healthy even possible it really pricked our ears we thought this was a really interesting we know um nuanced complicated but very interesting topic so our listener said hello from utah aka ballerina farm territory i was recently watching a youtube video on the beauty and weight standards in south korea it features all of the diet option foods and how easy it is for an average not obese or overweight person to get weight loss drugs. I was really struck by how it seems like anytime there are really thin people it comes out that it's not all natural.

9:33Even in real life scenarios it seems like very thin people I know end up either having an eating disorder or chronically skipping meals because they are so busy or have severe health issues like Crohn's disease that contributes their thin physique. To be honest it feels really discouraging like you can either prioritize health or being thin but it isn't possible for both to be true. Is this just an indication of our unrealistic beauty standards or are we actually getting bigger as we have access to more ideally healthy food it seems like looking at clothing my mom grandma and great grandma wore like they were just so much smaller as young adults than i was at the same age even though i've prioritized trying to exercise eat right and sleep well my entire life so it makes me wonder if we are on average just getting bigger all around and is that something that we reflect in health metrics like bmi it's so interesting such a big question so many different parts to talk about it's a humongous question I think we should start by saying around the world there are different beauty ideals and definitions and what's viewed as thin in South Korea may not be viewed as thin in America you know I think yeah or vice versa yeah and the word the use of the word thin in itself has so many different connotations so we can start by that and saying that currently there is and a dramatic change on the red carpet which ella and i have discussed which does seem very extreme and i don't think appears as healthy i think people can be naturally slim but i do agree with you that when we get to that a-lister carpet perspective and i actually had a friend whose daughter started watching k-pop demon haunters and suddenly realized how thin again all these characters were i've not actually watched it but i should she said i'd love it but um oh my gosh it's fantastic I will like it right it's very exciting but um and actually when my son was watching Pokemon they're all stick thin cartoon drawings in that part of the world so it's really interesting how we view thinness first of all I totally totally agree but I love this question now I have met and you have met I'm sure and we have all met some exceptionally slim slash thin people in our lives that is their body type and you know we get messages sometimes in our inbox from those people saying i would love to gain weight i can't gain weight so oh it's in clinic all the time believe it or not and they don't all have chronic diseases not everybody has crohn's disease to be that slim but it's not particularly common no although completely normal it is not that common and so i do completely hear what you're saying and i think that's why to me it felt like an important question because can you be like healthy slim and eat well and exercise i think yes but the number of people i agree and that i said this on monday with like celebrities who are you know sometimes really really thin and they say i love eating burgers all the time i don't believe that and you know it's one of your frustrations with what i eat in a day is it's like you know there are people they're so so so slim it's very hard to believe that most these people who can be so, so slim can eat, you know, I know calories don't count to an degree.

12:37It's not just burgers, the big meals they're promoting. Yeah, two and a half thousand calories a day and be that slim. I think most people, I actually have to say, I agree with you. I don't think most people can do that. Can they be very healthy looking? A hundred percent. Would most people eat that much and be that slim? I really don't think so. I find that what I eat in a day is really frustrating for that degree because I'm like, I just don't believe you. I don't think the vast majority of people can eat that much and be that small. I know some people can, and that's a real, can be an insecurity and a difficult point for them because they would like to gain weight.

13:12So as Rhi always says, so much compassion to the nuances and the complexities of everyone's different body shape and size and their kind of natural set point. But I do agree with you. And I think it is disheartening and frustrating and generally unhelpful. And it's against evolution. So we have to remember from an evolution perspective, our bodies are biologically geared to gain weight. We don't like periods of starvation. We want constant energy flow to feel our best. So it's very unnatural in a way to see these beauty standards emerging in an environment of plenty, first of all. That's very, very unusual.

13:53and there's a wealth issue here as well with the types of people you're seeing portraying these images. There's a definite privileged society barrier that comes with these aesthetics and it is unachievable. And I would argue that the thin, extreme thin, I'm going to call it extreme thin. You were talking about size zero? Yeah, size zero and people that are meant to be perhaps their natural set point theory is a 10 and they're maintaining a six or an eight. Yeah. That's unhealthy. And I think that's what I agree with. And I think that's a great way of explaining it. So I completely agree that you feel discouraged.

14:28I think it's completely fair and it is frustrating in a society that really does appreciate slimness. I think that's a fair thing to say. I think lots of Western society celebrates slimness. Whereas in the olden days, we celebrated women having weight. Yeah, I think it's all an idealized body, a kind of Kardashian figure. there's still a kind of idealized body image that's the last decade isn't it the curves and in fact that's why we're seeing plastic surgery evolving in different ways yeah but still a super slim waist you know i agree i think it's a very i'm not sure the vast majority of people can be thin and healthy there are exceptions there are always exceptions could you be slim and like healthy looking and healthy yes i agree with you i don't think most people can be a size zero and healthy oh no because you just to be healthy and to eat your 30 grams of fiber a day and 30 plants a week and all the rest of it you do have to eat like a quantity of food to not feel exhausted every day to not um there's so many things in disguise on social media you'll see extremely thin characters with burnout perhaps you'll see extremely thin characters with um a goal to run a marathon maybe or i'm not saying that everybody with burnout running a marathon is not healthy or eating well.

15:49What I'm saying is to maintain abdominal muscles, depending on your shape or size, for many individuals, that means a very low body fat percentage. It means women will not be menstruating effectively. The dysregulation there, predisposing themselves to osteopenia and bone conditions later on in life. It's really extreme, Ella. I think it is extremely difficult. But with GLP-1, so we have to touch on GLP-1 antagonists here and the medications that are becoming so widely available. I just want to reiterate that they are designed for larger bodies and in smaller bodies we see serious side effects, gallbladder ruptures, we see severe vomiting, even eyesight and Ella and I have discussed lots of these on the podcast.

16:30We actually have some voice notes coming up later on from Federica about GLP-1s as well. So we both conclude, don't we Ella, there are always exceptions to the rule but mostly the extreme thin ideal is not healthy and definitely not for young females to aspire to no and not compatible with a genuinely healthy diet because to eat a genuinely healthy diet you still have to eat a quantity of food that's not for the vast majority of people compatible with size zero because size zero just for most people means just fundamentally not eating enough i can't get over the fact we're even back so i think great question thank you for asking it and i would absolutely love to hear what you guys think on it

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19:02That's why you wreck.

19:07And the next question we've got is from Ellie. Ellie has said my question's about weight loss, which I noticed, as you said, you don't tend to discuss much about. And actually, I have to agree with you. Ella and I both extremely cautious of triggering subjects, so that's a good observation. I have been wanting to lose a couple of kilograms, but the only method I really know is calorie counting. I would prefer to avoid this, as I've been loving the past year or so of my life of free eating and generally whole and healthy foods. I'm wondering if there are any tips you have on how to gauge how hungry I should feel during a short term weight loss phase, or if there are any foods I could focus on eating or avoiding in this phase.

19:45Perhaps if you could let me know what the reliable literature says. Great question, Ellie. Obviously, we don't. We're not lucky enough to know you personally. One thing I would say, and this is probably less to you, Ellie, and more to everybody listening, is I think this really links to our last question. Why do you want to lose those couple of kilos? Now, it may be that it is metabolically beneficial for you to do that, you know, and that's absolutely very important. You know, a healthy weight is very healthy for us. So if that's the reason, that's great. And we'll talk about that, you know, answer your question on that in a sec.

20:20But if it's because you're feeling pressure on this slimness that we're seeing, as we talked about a second ago, this return to size zero, because it sounds to me like you've got a great setup right now where you're saying you've been freely eating and loving the last year eating loads of like lovely whole foods but you're just feeling a sense of freedom that just sounds so inherently positive and so maybe you're then at the perfect weight for your body now but we don't know you so but I think just for people listening I think it's an important question to ask ourselves in the mirror like why aren't we happy where we are and if it's not a metabolic reason to lose those kilos is it just societal pressure thank you ella because that's exactly why we tend to avoid these types of conversations because there is so much nuance and we're acutely aware that anybody what everybody listening is in a complete different situation what i would say is if you've answered all of those questions and a weight loss journey is appropriate could be for hormonal benefits it could be anything you know reduce cancer risk.

21:21There can be so many reasons why you are already at a good starting point. If you've reached that place of food freedom where you're not counting and you're eating very healthy balanced diets, then easy tweaks should be enough to get those final kilos off. What I would explain in clinic is that weight loss is never a linear line. It always fluctuates. It plateaus. That is completely natural. And actually the plateaus where most people give up and that's when crash dieting happens. So that's when it's often very helpful to speak to people. But you You've mentioned how do I go through my hunger signals, which is something I could definitely answer on here.

21:55If you go back to, if you've got my first book, Renourish in 2017, I discussed this, but if you have a think about how hungry you feel before you eat, this is quite a big task. You have to have a pen and paper ready, little food diary. It takes a bit of a focus before you eat. And then after you eat, instead of how full you are, I'd like you to rate out of 10 how satisfied you are. there are two very different meanings. So not how physically full you feel, but did you enjoy what you ate? So the satiety, the satiation. And then once you've done that for a week or two, you'll start to notice the breakfast, lunch or dinner or snacks where the satiation rating is very low versus high and how you can optimize that weight loss journey that way without me giving specific advice and energy expenditure does count for those final few kilos but where everybody goes wrong in the clinic is those ratings and not honoring your body and then you've gone too low this is where most people go too low too quickly and they've got nowhere left to go with tweaks in their diet and I would reiterate you're already in a very good place so you don't want to do anything extreme it could be for you that extra physical activity is enough but for most people it's a small dietary week it could even be one snack a day love that great it's really hard to offer it ella like without um knowing more about you yeah yeah exactly right jen says couple of quick questions from me firstly have you heard of legs against the wall yoga pose is this actually beneficial heard it can help with lymphatic drainage yeah we'll come into that and then secondly i've been trying to eat more fiber but i'm severely allergic to nuts and sometimes struggle with healthy meals and snacks have you got tips on this um suggestions for alternatives legs against wall ella can you do that first because i remember reading about that and even with my pregnant bum i do try sometimes to put my legs in the air yeah exactly so you can either do it you can just put your legs in the air but the more comfy thing to do if you have like a yoga block you could put that under sort of your sacrum like the base of your spine and that will just make it much less effort to lift your legs and you can just lie like that or scoot your butt all the way to the wall, like really shuffle in there and then just lay your legs up the wall.

24:12That's what I do. Yeah, so relaxing. I think lots of people, again, look, we've talked about this before. Most of us are overstressed. We're kind of slightly more sympathetic, that stress state going on in our lives. And so anything that we can do that just chills us out, gets us into our rest and digest, nice break for your nervous system is great. And normally, if you're doing this, you're going to sit there, you're going to relax. and that is great. So you're probably going to feel better after doing it because you've sat for like three minutes just breathing and chilling out and being kind of unstimulated.

24:43So in that sense it's amazing. Lots of people again would say that if you've been you know it's hot or you're like walking around all day your legs can feel really tired and a bit sort of swollen and that can feel again really really nice. But the lymphatic system is really important but it's complicated and it's not going to be kind of stimulated by legs up the wall alone. You know, one of the most important things for lymphatic drainage and to get your lymph system moving is to move your body, like get up and walk and all the rest of it. So I would say it's not like a miracle, but it is a really restorative thing that often, I love it, makes me feel great.

25:23You're saying it makes you feel great. Lots of us feel good. Just two minutes at the end of the day. It also signals to your body, your brain, a bit of a like, ah, which is nice. I should do it a lot more than I am doing then on that perspective. Thank you, Ella. And then the second half of that question was that you are allergic to nuts and sometimes struggle with healthy meals and snacks. I completely hear you. Think beans, lentils, roasted chickpeas, oat crackers, whole grains for fibre. Even just eating an apple is going to give you lots of fibre as a snack. So my concern is more that you're probably thinking of packaged items claimed to have fiber, I'm guessing, or that a pack of nuts is convenient for most people.

26:04But honestly, things like crudités and even a pita bread that you could put like a wholemeal pita bread in your bag and then have that with some hummus that you've got ready to go or spread. That's fantastic. Edamame beans. there's a whole list but in in my book the fiber formula ella's book quick wins we've got loads of different examples there and yeah we want fiber for our guts so excellent question but i have to say i do relate to it after um i got oral allergy syndrome i developed an allergic reaction to hazelnuts and almonds and i do find it was a shock wasn't it yeah and it's not so much hazelnuts but almonds I do they are everywhere in healthy eating so I get I do see what you mean and it can feel a little bit frustrating so frustrating yeah 100 % so thank you and also remember if you allergic to nuts try tahini if you can if it's not seeds as well that's a fantastic spread that you can use I just want to quickly wish Nina a happy 60th birthday because Nina has messaged in and she's celebrating her 60th birthday and she loves tuning in to hear more about food and nutrition.

27:12Love it. Happy birthday, Nina. I hope you have a delicious and wonderful day. A delicious and wonderful day. I love that. And we'll probably come back to your question on vitamin D very, very soon because the question we're now going to cover next is from Kate. And Kate has said, I've always had an interesting relationship with food, occasionally verging on disordered eating when I was younger. I've recently been diagnosed of autism, which wasn't a surprise. I eat reasonably healthily, but need to eat more fruit and veg and find change around food extremely difficult. I've made some positive changes like we've just discussed now, you know, white wraps for wholemeal wraps, crudités and hummus at lunchtime.

27:49But she'd like some advice on neurodiversity in food. She knows it's very complicated and individualised, but where to start any recommendations? And I thought Ella, what a fantastic question to put in because we've not covered this yet. And obviously it's not our expertise, but we can definitely touch on things. Yeah. So where is the best place to look for resources and ideas here? So there are a few here that I think is really, really important. And first of all, like you said, there is a common link with disordered eating and neurodivergence, actually. And neurodivergence is obviously not picked up on, but the eating disorder is sometimes because of the drastic either body weight gain or loss.

28:27And eating patterns, anxiety around food conditions such as ARFID, which stand for avoidant restrictive food intake disorder. In the Retribution Clinic, I've got some incredible eating disorder dieticians who specialize in this. It's definitely their area over mine. But what I would say is if you're looking for some brilliant professionals and resources, head to the clinic or Dr. Megan and Neff. The Neurodivergent Women podcast is a great one to listen to. And I would head to ARFID Awareness UK. That's A-R-F-I-D. Honestly, we cannot overstate that being labeled as a fussy eater or a picky eater or if you're a parent of a child in particular that's being labeled like that.

29:08how frustrating and alienating that can be, particularly for autism. You know, we see strong preferences around texture, temperature, color, smell of food, the way food presents, colors, so, so many things. So what I would say is that you are not alone. There are lots of people out there and even adults that are discovering that for their whole life, they lived with that label and then they realize, oh, it's because I'm neurodivergent. That's why food for me is more challenging so i hope that's helpful for you there and we've put the details of all the recommendations that we just gave you in the show notes as well if anyone wants to have a look at those okay we have got a question from charlotte here who said i don't think you've covered this yet but can we talk about thinning hair my feed is full of lotions and potions shampoos serums drops etc that claim to help hair thinning loss due to perimenopause and glp1s etc is there any evidence these often very expensive solutions work more importantly is there anything with regards nutrition that women can do to help prevent hair thinning um in peri or menopause or is it all just hormonal she also said i have got a wreck at the start of the year i started using nope as an n-o-p-e shampoo and conditioner bars because the bars are vegan they're plastic free no palm oil and it's totally changed her hair that's cool that is cool oh my gosh i see so much of this though I had quite bad uh receding hairline after my second baby so I was I don't say it was a sucker for maybe that's a bit reductive but yeah I had the two triangles and so I really can relate to that feeling I would have kind of been willing to try most things I actually didn't do anything in the end but I can see a world in which like I could have bought a lotion or potion probably should have bought a lotion and potion I think pregnancy hair loss is one thing that's very different because we don't lose hair throughout the pregnancy and then suddenly you shed the normal cycle of hair loss but in one go when the baby's born and of course you're looking at iron depletion all sorts of areas there but rapid weight loss can cause hair thinning stress illness inadequate nutrition i cannot stress that enough glp1s cause malnutrition and there's not enough focus on it everyone's talking about muscle loss well let's look at the fact that all your vitamins and minerals have gone down your fiber's gone down the way your body functions.

31:27That's what we were just talking about with the kind of thin and healthy. Like if you're eating teeny, teeny, teeny, teeny amounts, you just cannot get enough nutrition in. No, you won't be. Absolutely. That's such a good thing to reiterate. There's some brands out there that I know have a lot of extensive research and work with trichologists. Nioxin's one. It's not one for those to be free of everything products, but it's heavily researched with science for hair growth and over-the-counter hair products actually some of them have some strong independent evidence for them but then there are those that don't have any and of course everybody's going to react differently which is what makes this such a minefield yeah but there are some kind of key nutritional factors to look at right yeah um of course i'm going to mention protein because it is important we do want to be eating a balanced healthy diet but for hair loss often the markers that your GP or somebody would look at would be your iron, your vitamin D.

32:24Zinc is something that's not often but should be brought up and would be by a specialist in this area. B12 and folate, interestingly enough. And then are you actually getting enough calories? And this is what we say about the extreme fitness trends as well, Ella, is that it absolutely is not helpful. So you need to be prioritizing foods that contain those elements, even omega-3, walnuts, flax seeds. You want to be supporting your hormones at this time and those foods are very beneficial. Okay and then we have got a special guest answering our last two questions today. Federica Amati who friend of the show we absolutely love her and she's got a brand new book out.