Exercise as Therapy, Super-Salads & the Pressure to Optimise

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1:02welcome to the wellness scoop your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration and as always we are both here as your hosts i'm ella mills and i'm riannon lambert and after a decade in the wellness industry we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be and that's why we've created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple fun and personal and guys the wellness scoop is officially won it's our first birthday oh my goodness we've aged we're growing up and we're entering our toddler years no but in all seriousness this was something that i think we were both really keen to experiment with as reese says in our intro every week we just felt this space was so noisy and so hard to navigate and when every time you open your phone you see something on social and then a headline and then a podcast clip whatever it is and they all contradict each other and they're all quite extreme knowing how to actually like gently slowly sustainably improve your health on a day-to-day basis when life is busy around you we just both felt had become nigh on impossible and so the fact that we've had five million lessons and downloads and you guys are in over 100 countries and are loving it we are just so beyond grateful because god we love this show it's given us a happy place every week a place without pressure without stress and just a place where we can bring positivity to a space that i feel has needed it because we all know negative news travels a lot faster than positive news which is why the wellness scoop is here it really is and very fancy for one year birthday guys we have our own wellness scoop email now we do ella did it two days ago she's like here's her email i was like Yes.

2:49I was on a domain buying shopping spree. I'm feeling really fancy. Anyways, so any questions, queries, comments, things you want us to know, and definitely questions for our weekly Q &A, send them to us. We are just hello at wellness-scoop.com. I'll pop it in the show notes as well for you guys, but please say hi. This is so exciting. So email us direct. We cannot wait to receive all of your questions. And Ella, it is a fantastic way to celebrate our one-year anniversary because we've got an incredible show. what's coming up we have okay we're going to be talking about whether exercise really can rival therapy for depression and what kind of exercise actually helps why hidden salt is one of the biggest quietest health risks in the uk and we're basically eating 155 packs of crisps a week which is wild what new research reveals about weight regain after weight loss injections why medication alone can't fix our health without changing the food environment the rise of the 12 pounds 50 super salad and how Jen said a redefining treat when wellness tips into pressure optimization and anxiety and why living longer isn't the same as living better.

3:59So Ella how has your week been you've been a busy bee again. Well you know I'm on this like mission to be zen this year and I am on a serious streak of daily meditation or breath work every day in January. That's incredible. Sometimes just like three minutes. I mean, sometimes 12 minutes, but not huge chunks of the day. And obviously I'm locked out of my socials for most of the day as well. And that's going well. It's been seven days now. I'm obsessed. She's on it. Yeah. Almost two weeks. Oh, 14. Wow, Ella. Yeah, I know. Basically. And I now think social when I log on is the most boring thing in the world.

4:37It's like taste buds. You get used to it. You really do. And I look, my brains, I'm an overthinker. I'm an over-warrior. I am probably naturally very scatty, a terrible multitasker. And that always makes me feel quite overwhelmed. And I think that just the combination of like deliberately trying to take time out to calm by doing the breath work and then not having that constant chatter in my head of like refreshing the little dopamine hits, that little monkey on my shoulder being like, look at this, look at this, always vying for my attention. I just feel, I genuinely, I feel really different.

5:10I feel so much calmer and more balanced. It's so important. And I think after we spoke last week, I made a really conscious effort around the children, especially. I just don't want it in, you know, near me because I just picked up my phone this morning, for instance, on the train and I saw something really sad, like someone's dog has died and I'm there in tears on the train about someone I don't know on the other side of the planet who's just lost their pet, which is very sad, but I didn't need to see it, Ella. And And I think it just reminds us that we, especially as empaths, and I'm particularly driven this way, I feel sad about everything on the planet.

5:41I think it's so important for our mental health. And you also have an aura ring. And I really want to know how that's going. OK. Do you know what? I feel I can give a better update maybe in like a month or two months. I tried it out. This was all part of my Zen year. I had some health challenges at the end of last year, some kind of reoccurrence of some of the things I've struggled with in the past with my heart rate and things and some gut health problems. And so that was all kind of part of just trying to understand what was going on. Anyways, I'm not sure. Jury's out. It did tell me I was in a restored state when I was working on the wellness scoop script.

6:16I mean, that is good. I would just say, look, we've read so much and we've talked a lot on the show about how these trackers are a slippery slope and how easy it is to become quite fixated on the numbers. Again, it's just like another sense of validation. You'll notice I'm not wearing it today. and I just found it was like you're in such a stress state and I was like yeah I am because my children won't put their shoes on they won't eat their breakfast we're late for school again I'm always saying we're late and I know I'm a bad parent for saying that and I feel so guilty but I always say we're late you're anxious but we are every day yeah I know we are every day I know come on get out of the house I don't know there was just this part of me that was like I'm not sure I now think I'm stressed about you telling me I'm stressed yeah and I'm overthinking the stress and actually I'm not sure if it's helping me so I've taken it off for a few days I'll put it back on again and try it out but I I don't know I just worry again like how much information is too much information I mean I don't think I need tech to tell me when I haven't slept well because I know when I haven't slept well we both came in this morning I now have insomnia from the three month period my youngest gave me of no sleep where they're sleeping and I'm not sleeping I don't need an app to tell me that.

7:29You're tired but wired, exactly. I know, and then it makes you more frustrated. There's definitely two sides to these wearable techs. They're not going anywhere and I can see the benefit of some, but I agree with you, anxiety provoking. I just felt like I was becoming the epitome of the worried well. Yeah, well done for saying no as well, no to it. You took it off today. Yeah, I took it off over the weekend because I was just like, this is ridiculous. Like, this is more information than I possibly need. Yeah, and I think, Ella, you're on a real good mission to really put yourself first this year and be in the moment.

8:00And I think that's really admirable. It's really difficult to do. It's one of the hardest things I've always said in the re-tourition clinic is when you're working with a client, any change is really difficult. As humans, we just don't like change. No, it's so difficult and you have to confront parts of yourself. But what is exciting, I told you guys a few weeks ago, we launched at All Plants some products into Tesco, which are going so well. and anyone who works in the food space knows that getting into Sainsbury's Tesco, that's the epitome of success. Guys, it's such a milestone. But then it has to work, obviously.

8:30It has to turn on shelf. People need to buy it. I'm buying them. I've got them in the fridge. We've had them twice now. The Toe Vue Couchons, they're just literally flying. So that's a really exciting start of the year. I think it was very, not unclear, but it was kind of, I don't think any of us were, you know, we didn't know 100 % where this company work and it seems like it's really flying. I think it's so good because if you have a think about it, not all processed foods are bad. There's a different scale, isn't there? Exactly. They're not Mars bars. They're not ultra processed. They don't have additives and emulsifiers pumped into them.

9:03And there are so many products like that that exist. There are some sausages made from vegetables. There's corn mince out there made from microprotein. There's your tofu goujons on the market. And they have a place. And what I worry about with this ultra processed food conversation sometimes is we do have to remember that these are options that can help people sometimes. They're not all the same. There's black and white way of looking at things. If you look at some of the other podcasts, my goodness me, you just feel filled with fear, don't you? Completely. And I have to say, trying to make those sorts of products without the emulsifiers and things is so difficult.

9:34So hard. But it can be done. And, you know, I'm a big passionate believer in that. You know who needs them? Donald Trump. I am just to say I had this interview on Sunday on Times Radio and they asked me, what does Donald Trump eat? I said, well, I don't know. I'm not his nutritionist. Apparently all McDonald's. and Coca-Cola. That's what they say. You know, I was like, well, if that's true, obviously he's not the vision of health. So we do need these other processed items on the shop shelves because then people like him that are so used to having, you know, this fast food diet could really benefit from it.

10:03Exactly. That's the whole mission is like, how do you give people a much better option? But that meets that need on a Tuesday night when you need something basically instant. But what was interesting to me, and we will go into the headlines, I promise, is that, you know, I was asked the question, he's not setting a good example for the US public when they're trying to now create guidelines that move away from ultra-processed foods. And that was really interesting to me because he's never pretended, obviously the president's never pretended to be the vision of health, but should every head of state and should every person in government, in parliament be fit and healthy and the pressure that puts upon them to then become role models, I'm going off on a whole tangent.

10:45It's a really interesting question though. Isn't it? I mean, I think if you're in charge of health, you should be, which is not always the case. No. Yeah. So I know I think you should. I think if you're going to inspire a nation to change, you need to to some extent live by that, surely. If Donald Trump ever picks up on this, you need to get Ella's book, Crit Wins, and my new book, The Fibre Formula, and then we'll see where he goes. Can you imagine if someone like that actually read our books? Oh, my gosh. This is such an unexpected tangent this morning. Let's move on to the headlines that matter.

11:19Okay, so our first headline today, guys, Scientists Find Exercise Rivals Therapy for Depression. And this was picked up in lots and lots of places. That headline in particular comes from Science Daily. And this new piece of research was analysing existing evidence that came from 73 different clinical trials, which involved almost 5 ,000 patients. And what the researchers found was that exercise had a similar effect on symptoms of depression when compared to psychological therapies. So they were drawing specifically on 10 trials that directly compared exercise with therapy. And the researchers in that concluded there was little to no difference in effectiveness between the two approaches, which is so interesting.

12:02The research team were based in the University of Lancashire and they were quoted saying they thought these findings suggest exercise should be considered a safe and accessible option for managing depression. I think it's really wonderful because the review also found that when you exercise, it shows comparable benefits to antidepressant medication. So we're clear, of course, that you can't replace medication with exercise, but it's something that I think we should add into the mix that works really, really well for people. And the review did identify, Ella, what type of exercise seemed to work best.

12:33And it was light to moderate intensity activity, which was better than the vigorous. I think that's because of stress. I totally agree. It's the gentle effect on the body and as well in terms of kind of consistency, the strongest improvements in depressive symptoms were seen when the participants completed between 13 and 36 exercise sessions. So obviously that does show that the consistency matters. Just one or two sessions won't get the same effect. But also, again, consistency more important than intensity, which I think is really good to know in terms of trying to make this work within your lifestyle.

13:08Because we spoke about it last week that putting the washing out and even hanging the washing line, that housework is light exercise. 100 % to that point, Rhi, they gave examples of moderate activity that was included and it included heavy housework, cleaning like mopping, washing windows, brisk walking, cycling at 10 to 12 miles an hour and sports like badminton. So kind of really accessible, gentle, plausible exercise. But interestingly, the programs that combined aerobic exercise, so those sorts of cardio, with a little bit of resistance or strength training appeared to be the most beneficial.

13:46Yes, exactly. But, you know, we have to be really careful what this review can and can't tell us. So it can't confidently determine that exercise works better for mild or severe depression. So I think it depends where on that spectrum people are and whether certain types are superior for specific people. Like I know you and I probably would benefit more from yoga and stretching and other people probably would get more gain from the brisk walk or walking up the stairs every now and again. But the takeaway is so important, Ella, that, you know, exercise isn't a panacea for health in total, but the evidence does suggest it's powerful.

14:22It's a tool that's free, doesn't cost any money to do. It's accessible. And if anybody's feeling down, I will add, when you are depressed, it's actually difficult to do something like this. Really, really difficult. And I think that's an incredibly important side note. Finding the motivation to go in a difficult period of your life is not to be underestimated. I think for me, the big take home from this headline and all this research, though, again, is it's just a reminder as well that these small things make a difference. to all of us no matter how we're feeling it's actually blue monday today as we're recording yeah we record the monday before the episode comes out the marketing hype day begins but again it's just like it's that time of year where i think most of us don't feel 100 it's dark it's cold it's raining again you know finding motivation to do things isn't always easy and so i think it is just an important reminder again that the basics matter so much and i think sometimes and like looking at myself here sometimes you know be like why don't I feel motivated why don't I feel amazing kind of all great and myself today I'm like right I haven't been outside I've spent four hours doom scrolling I haven't moved my body I didn't sleep well I've had three coffees I know we all do that sort of thing all the time but it's just the reminder that actually like we've got to move our bodies it's imperative for our mental health and it can be literally through cleaning your house it doesn't need to go around the block yesterday I'd been in nearly all day with the children and it got off I made a roast dinner after the roast dinner it was at 4 35 we did a scooter walk around the block so I was like I have to get out the house you always feel better so much better exactly and it's just yeah sleep stress movement obviously diet they really really matter and what also matters of course is our diets and nutrition so the headline that we have next headline too is that adults in England Ella are eating 155 packets of crisps a week in So what a headline.

16:22What a headline. Rhea, I know you've done quite a lot of press on this headline as well. So I'm going to let you take the weight on it. That headline in particular, the 155 packets of crisps a week, came from Sky News. But it's all based on this new analysis that, as I said, Rhea's been speaking to a lot from the British Heart Foundation. But it is a good headline that we're eating 155 packs of crisps a week. I imagine a lot of people clicked on it. Very good clickbait. I think really good clickbait. But also when it came in, for me, it was on the global BBC Radio 4 show. I was under quite a bit of pressure.

16:50I got the call 10 minutes before going on. So I had to quickly look up what I was going to say. Do you get nervous in those moments? Do you know, I get, this is so weird. I get excited. Yeah. Yeah, it's like that high energy kind of like adrenaline. Yeah. I'm like, great, finally, we've been over consuming salt for years. We've got more mainstream press on this. Maybe it'll make a difference in my head. I'm thinking, right, everyone's getting around eight grams was the last stat last year. They should be getting six. and I'm thinking about the ultra-processed food consumption, of course. So the study here from the British Heart Foundation found that working-age adults in England are consuming 8.4 grams of salt a day.

17:28Now, that is 40 % higher than, of course, our recommended 6 grams a day. And even the recommended amount will vary from person to person. Also from gender, we're starting to create in this country more gender-devised nutrition targets, which we've never had before. Everything's been based off male bodies. We're going to be diving into that a bit actually on Thursday, which I'm excited about. Yes, so, so important to discuss. And to make it easier to visualize, they got this packets of crisps that the salt equivalent of eating, you know, 22 packets of crisps a day is 155 packets worth of salt each week.

18:04I like these illustrative ways of doing it because when you say you're eating 8.4 grams of salt and you should be eating six grams of salt it's sort of like it's very difficult to imagine for a layman like just for me I'm sitting here I'm like what does that really mean because it doesn't sound big eight grams it doesn't sound big and it doesn't eight doesn't sound that much bigger than six either but when you say 40 it feels a lot bigger but then when you visualize the amount of salt in a packet of 22 packets of crisps you suddenly think oh no maybe that's a bit too much salt. Yeah, because around 85 % of the salt in our diets already is from the food we buy because, of course, we're a nation that consume more ultra processed foods.

18:42Some naturally have higher levels of salt, but I'm talking particularly here about bread, you know, breakfast cereals in the morning, you'd be surprised. Ready meals, you know, salt is a preservative. It helps retain flavour. It helps preserve the food for longer. But it's a real problem because of high blood pressure and it's a silent killer. That's what we call anything that links to heart disease. I think all of us know someone affected in my side of the family. It's big and my dad's side. You know, three in 10 adults in the UK are thought to suffer with hypertension. Which is high blood pressure.

19:14Yeah, and they don't know it. That's the problem. And around 5 billion don't know they have it. And that's quite scary. Also, heart disease is the biggest killer for women in the UK, just to throw that in there as well. Because I think a lot of the time, we associate high blood pressure with men. I don't know why that is. But high blood pressure is linked to around half of all the heart attacks and strokes and the British Heart Foundation estimate that reducing your salt intake, which is what we're striving to do, but down to the World Health Organization's guidance, which is five grams. So in the UK, we say six.

19:45Actually, World Health Organization says five. And that could prevent a staggering 135 ,000 new cases of coronary heart disease over time. And alongside that, you've got all the extra things that come with that like dementia problems of your kidneys and reducing the risk of stroke it's not that salt's bad at her it's just we all overeat it and we don't realize i think that point is really important though that salt isn't bad like if you're cooking from scratch at home you're making a lasagna this evening a tray bake there's nothing wrong with adding a little bit of nice salt your onions and your garlic as they're cooking like that's we want food to be flavorsome you want to enjoy it that's not the problem the problem is is that also when you are making stuff on a much bigger scale you don't have the same level of flavor and also the flavor is going to change and often dip over time so again when you're thinking about the manufacturing side of this you end up adding way way more salt oftentimes and we've definitely seen this kind of exploring that side of the market than you would ever do if you're making the equivalent meal at home if you put that much salt in the meal at home it would taste really overly salty but just because of a the other ingredients often lacking as much flavor as if it was kind of fresher and b the longer shelf life oftentimes yeah salt is added in excess and this is what we talk about when we say hfss you know high fat salt and sugar in the uk and initially the ultra processed food conversation just focused purely on these ingredients you know how much salt how much sugar how much fat and now Of course, we know there's potential knock-on effects of additives and emulsifiers as well.

21:24But Ella found this analysis reported by The Economist that showed that it's a popular food because six billion packets of crisps are sold in this country a year. Exactly. So obviously, when I was looking at the 155 packs of crisps a week, I was like, I know we don't eat that many. But I remembered something before about the insane number of crisps that we do eat in the UK. I mean, I do love a good crisp. I love a crisp as well. But we consume 6 billion packets of crisps. Well, we sell 6 billion packets of crisps a year in the UK. So if you were going to translate that, that's about 140 to 155 packets per person per year.

22:04So we're not eating 155 packs a week. That's just the salt equivalent. But we are basically eating 155 packs a year. But it starts young. So it goes in lunch boxes. And I remember in the unprocessed plate book doing this diagram of the processing of crisps. because Ella and I have both discussed before, not all crisps are potato. No, and not all crisps are equal, like all of these things. So there is a hierarchy, but I think the takeaway is simple, everybody. Let's just have a little reminder. I know we all know it. We know not to consume too much salt, but we still are. We still are. And again, I feel like a broken record or we could say a parrot, parroting the same thing the whole time.

22:41But again, it just comes back to the same thing. Like we just need to cook from scratch and we need to cook at home more because the easy way to get around this is to make more meals yourself. Like if you tonight make a delicious, big, spicy, creamy coconut milk based dal, for example, put spinach in it, some tomatoes, lots of cumin and spices and as I said, garlic and chili and all the rest of it. Delicious. You can have that for lunch tomorrow. Take that in a Tupperware or whatever it is, an easy container to work and have that you can cook with some salt in that and I can guarantee if you had that instead of say like a classic British meal deal you would have infinitely less salt and it will be so delicious you'll have fiber you'll have plant protein it'll be so much cheaper as well and then you can use your lunch break to go for a little walk it's not about being perfect and it's not about being like overly micromanaged but I just think again it just speaks the same thing we've got to get back to our easy cooking at home more often and I'm going to add what I mentioned the other week about my dad on Christmas day dad I know you listen and just just to use it as an example the generation that still adds salt to their food even when there's already a lot of salt before even tasting it because I think not to put any shame especially not on my own father because I love him to pieces but you know I think it's habitual I do think that we're it's a habit oh where's the salt and pepper shaker it's on every table in every restaurant Yeah, exactly.

24:10So try your food first. Yeah, try the food first. Let's do the taste test. Yeah, and use it as a reminder just to cook from home a little bit more, if you can, when you can. You'll find loads of delicious recipes in quick wins as well if you need it.

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25:50Every recipe also gives you plant points to help you eat more plants. You can get your 30 plants a week. It'll all help you feel great and just make healthy cooking feel effortless again. So Quick Wins is out now wherever you get your books. okay headline number three people who stopped taking weight loss jabs regain weight in under two years study reveals i'm sure you guys saw this because it was absolutely everywhere over the last few weeks that headline in particular came from the guardian but it was all written up following a major new study that was published in the british medical journal the bmj and it was just adding I guess more noise more depth more information to this very very fast moving fast developing conversation around all of the new weight loss injections and medications your Monjaro your Wega via Zempic etc there's 1.5 million people they think now in the UK taking this but obviously as we know there's a big black market so the number is probably a lot higher this study in particular was led by researchers at Oxford University and they analyzed 37 different existing studies involving just shy of 10 ,000 participants, all of whom had used these various weight loss medications.

27:03On average, people took the medication for 39 weeks with a follow-up period of around 32 weeks after stopping. And while they were on the drugs, they lost on average 8.3 kilograms, a huge amount of weight. But once the medication was stopped, and this is the important part, weight gain was both rapid and consistent. And on average, people regained 4.8 kilograms. So just over half the weight within the first year, but with all the weight that they had lost returning at a rate of about 0.4 kilograms a month. And by just over a year and a half, people had regained all the weight they'd lost. They'd returned to their original weight.

27:43So it's just an important thing, I think, to note for a whole variety of reasons. But the idea that we see these drugs as these like shortcuts I think this really shows as a myth they're not shortcuts because really and this is what all the scientists were saying around this is you've got to be on this for life and we don't have enough research really on being on this for life yet and that's expensive very expensive at the moment as far as I understand it for lots of the drugs the NHS only prescribes two years so what does that look like I mean that would have to be changed and the cost of that is obviously exponential if you start this and you're on it for 50 years i mean it's huge this is why you know it was originally developed for people with diabetes and then it became available for those that perhaps needed bariatric surgery that were over a certain threshold in terms of weight but the problem is it's become so normalized for those who just wanted to lose a few pounds or a few kilos and like we said we do think there's so many positives to this you know we're not saying that it's terrible but actually it's just the same as yo-yo dieting if you don't change your behavior if you don't change your diet if you don't change your nutrition if you don't use it to your advantage to kickstart behavior change you can put it on four times faster than even a fad diet after a weight loss pill because your body your hormones your peptide hormones that tell you when you're full and satiated and signal with your brain they're basically saying wow I've been halted from doing my job let's go.

29:11And they go on kind of mega mode. Absolute mega mode and I think that we need to caution short-term use without having a long-term plan completely because these are powerful medications and I think they've almost become known in society as a almost like Botox like everyday also I'm not saying Botox is bad I'm just saying they're known as everyday items. No completely and we've had questions and you you know, completely understandably so from the way that these were kind of heralded as this miracle, essentially, like, can you use them for a summer bikini bod? Well, they've also helped people conceive, though, as well.

29:47You know, they've lost the weight and then they've got pregnant. But then what do you do afterwards? Exactly. But I think if you kind of feeling like any temptation or pressure to use these as like the quick way of losing half a stone before your summer holiday, please don't feel that pressure because ultimately it won't work. And I think what's so important to kind of overemphasize is exactly what we said is that they're comparing it to structured programs where you're really, really fundamentally changing your diet and your exercise generally to a much healthier approach. And people who had done that versus people who had been on these weight loss drugs, people who'd done the weight loss drugs and then stopped them versus stopping the exercise or weight loss plans, the medication approach regained weight four times faster, four times.

30:32Like that is absolutely mega. Well, that's to say that's why we've got to be really careful. And Catherine Jenner, actually, she's the executive director with the Obesity Health Alliance. She summed it up so clearly. And she said, you know, you've got to stop looking at weight loss as a failure of the individual. But instead, it does really reflect the reality of living in a food environment that continually pushes people towards unhealthy options. And this was echoed by an NHS spokesperson who also said similar. while these new treatments are an important new tool for supporting weight loss they are not a magic fix and must be paired with behavioral and lifestyle wraparound support including advice on healthy diets and physical activity to keep the weight off long term and when we originally trialed these drugs Ella that's what it was you had a psychologist you had a nutritionist but no one has that no well they're doing that's very very expensive although using chat gpt and And that's another headline we must discuss for nutrition advice.