Fasting, Cortisol and Seed Cycling

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1:02welcome to the wellness scoop your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration and we're your hosts i'm ella mills and i'm rihanna lambert and today we dive into all the questions that you have got for us so let's go we've got some great ones today we're talking about fasting cortisol seed cycling all sorts of things but before we get into it rhi have you got any recs for us anything we need to be doing seeing eating right seeing I can start there I started the girlfriend on prime I don't know if it's going to come to Netflix is it a movie or a show a series so good oh my goodness I should have looked up the name of the cast the woman was in house of cards she's got a short white oh Robin White yes yes so good it's got me hooked I've binge watched already four episodes in a row.

1:53Oh my gosh I was in desperate need of a TV show. This is the one it follows their two lives like the perspective of the mother-in-law and the new girlfriend and I'm not going to give any more away than that apart from the fact you have to go and listen. Okay so it's The Girlfriend and it's on Amazon Prime. It's on Amazon Prime at the moment. Thank you very much. That's one and then you know Battersea Power Station I went for the first time at the weekend to see Dinosaurs with the kids. Was it good? Loved it. Yeah I quite want to do that really good although my eldest did have a nightmare last night and was up in the night they're a bit scary but my youngest was totally not faced her three-year-old was just eating snacks with these huge dinosaurs and going i want more snacks okay i went to marlo i went to something called feast over flame awesome weekend i know i feel like i had a really good one but the highlight of my week ella was your launch oh yes of course we did our john lewis launch yesterday and oh my gosh it was so amazing and that is actually one of my recommendations obviously you need to go shop the amazing delicious yellow times john lewis kitchenware homeware range it's all online now be in their shops beginning of october it is amazing i'm obsessed with like the mini beetroot salt and peppers and the tomato candle holder and the artichoke jug and like i always said when i was starting delicious yellow i want to make vegetables cool so kind of seeing their like beautiful embroidered carrots on the napkins and things like that in John Lewis.

3:17It's really amazing. It feels very full circle. But we had the launch at this amazing restaurant called Bubbler. It's amazing. It's incredible. They've got two, one in Soho and one East London around Spitalfields. And do you know what is one of those amazing restaurants? It's actually all veggie, but they don't say it anywhere. They don't make a thing of it. It's just phenomenal food. and like most people who are there are not vegetarian it's just incredible incredible incredible food and it's such a great example that when you make something delicious it works and everyone wants to eat it and it doesn't matter you don't need to label it or any of the rest of it and I just love the way they do it it's absolutely beautiful it's all Middle East inspired and it's just stunning the food is incredible so if you're ever in London looking for something like that bubbler b-u-b-a-l-a it's unbelievable I can confirm as well that the food not only was 10 out of 10 but Ella seeing the range in person beautiful like thank you I so appreciate it it's amazing it's amazing and I am looking for recommendations for new podcasts so if anyone listening obviously other than the wellness scoop has podcast recommendations I would love to hear them I'm looking for like a juicy series something to get really stuck into do you know I listen to um it's not light-hearted I listen to the deep stuff like Paul Brunson I love his interviews like the real deep dives among relationships oh i need to start this the kerry katona one was fantastic it was so long that they split it into two it was like four hours long but because i grew up with atomic kitten and um that type of era i was hooked and it really reminded me of wow you just don't know what's going on behind closed doors oh okay i'll get into that one and then any others please let me know more light-hearted please well no but like or like do you see i remember the series the dropout i can stop listening to that i was obsessed so any good podcast please let me know okay so our first question today comes from melanie but we had lots of similar questions so hopefully this is going to be helpful for lots of people what are your views on fasting thank you and continue the amazing job your podcast is a blessing for our society oh wow melanie we love you that's so nice to hear this morning Rhi give us the overview I mean it's a deep topic and we could definitely pick up much more on it yeah fasting doesn't feel as popular as it was it feels like the trend of all trends about two years ago well I remember even before that someone released this one meal a day book you know people were commercializing the whole um fasting thing quite drastically could you do it I tried it yeah because I this was probably maybe it's two three years ago I'm not sure a little while ago and it was when fasting was everywhere and there was just this viewpoint that felt like it was kind of unescapable that fasting was the best thing you could ever do for your health and there was obviously lots of kind of interesting evidence and interesting research out there it wasn't just kind of crazy clickbait and so I felt like oh well I've got to do it and I think what I missed I'm sure we'll come on to in a second is like there's such a yes that that evidence was all true but it's very individualized and I was relatively new postpartum and I was so run down and I was so stressed this was like most high stress point of our business journey and I wasn't sleeping I wasn't kind of eating regularly like you know as in I was drinking way too much coffee I feel like my cortisol levels were so high and then it was definitely you know and I would find myself like quite shaky and and I was just doing it because everyone else was telling me to do it and I'm just being completely honest about that and I think it was such a great lesson in like just because there's research out there that says something's good it's not as simple as necessarily applying it to everybody's life and there's almost nothing that you can kind of universally apply to everyone so I did try it and I very very quickly realized like yeah it wasn't for me at that point in my life in any shape or form.

7:27Thank you for sharing that. I think so many people are probably in the same boat because it's really difficult on just two meals a day to get the 30 grams of fiber, to get the five a day, to eat well. For so many at the time it triggered binge eating cycles. You know, people that skip breakfast were starving, they'd overeat and then they'd be on a constant snacking bandwagon. Then they try and restrict again to compensate for what had happened the day before. For females, for hormone building blocks, regulation, of course, also are gut bugs. We have to remember they have a circadian rhythm. They have a way they're used to doing things.

7:58And actually when you fast, it's something that can make IBS worse and bloating worse. So people do it thinking it's going to help my bloating. Actually, it can in some people make it worse. But let's get to the research. So it's been largely centered on the time restricted eating, which is when you reduce the window of time rather than just thinking about calories in calories out so it means eating within eight to ten hours so stopping at what 6 p.m and starting again I haven't 11 in the morning exactly so you try and do like 14 to 18 hours essentially without food was that was the kind of rough is that the one you were following yeah essentially eat an early dinner and skip breakfast and as I said for meals complete disaster and I stopped it within like two weeks but anyway carrier well no no it's interesting because human trials do indicate that earlier eating windows so basically breakfast and lunch or two meals before mid-afternoon are actually more effective than late night eating and I think what the problem is is that most of us in society really look forward to that evening meal it's a social thing it's when you've got back after a long day and to skip it is just unthinkable right you'd be hungry going to bed and it's much easier for people to skip breakfast but actually the research was for people to finish eating earlier in the day that a lot of it came from originally now the claims out there were that it helped regulate scadion rhythms, improved insulin sensitivity.

9:18There is research for that with diabetics. But again, you've got to be really careful as individual and reduce the post-meal blood sugar spikes, which I think is pretty obvious when you're not eating a meal or you're restricting essentially. So the two meal a day approach aligned with this early time restricted eating model focusing on breakfast and lunch or lunch and early dinner. And studies did show it help with weight management and I think that's again pretty obvious if you restrict a meal you're not getting as many calories in a day but in some individuals it increased stress in the body and for women particularly this is a sensitive area I know some people have released books about this saying women can fast too and I've seen them all but we are unique guys and most of the trials that we've got coming up on humans are still short-term and small scale I think it just went on and on in terms of the media storm at the time.

10:11Yeah, exactly. Because there were links again to it supporting lowering blood pressure, to improving markers of cardiovascular and metabolic health, independent of calorie restriction. So I think that's what we're saying. There really was some interesting, and there really is some interesting, meaningful research to show that actually time restricted eating, some facets of fasting can for specific health concerns and specific people genuinely be effective this isn't a trend that's kind of built on hot air it really isn't but i think the challenge with something like this is it feels so exciting and like a shortcut you know it feels easier to do that i think than to go on a conventional diet for example for weight management and as a result it kind of gets jumped on as such a this will work for everyone and i think that's where the caveat needs to set absolutely can i give you an anecdotal clinic type thing that we experience at the time men working in the city really effective really effective busy people just ate well at lunch ate well at dinner had no time to think about anything else most other people just didn't work and i know that sounds bad and i'm not saying women in the city and making this discrepancy purely because i'm being gender biased there is a thing about female hormones and symptoms worsening of reflux and all sorts of things for women that did attempt this approach and some women yes it might work for but ultimately gut health there were miracle claims about gut health ella as well it was all from animal studies and one was even on pythons i remember when i was breaking down this research in one of the newspapers they were making this claim i said look this is from a study on snakes like how are you drawing this conclusion and applying it to human beings it does make sense to give your body a bit of a break because i think most people in this country do overeat and we overeat non-nutrient dense items and we can't be devoid of that fact that then fasting obviously will cuts the amount you eat.

12:03Yeah and your body does a lot of repair work while you're asleep so again I think there's a lot to be said about having your 12 hour overnight window as far as I understand from all of the research that's very sensible but not elongating it for everybody and obviously like this is trial and error. I think, as I said, there is interesting research to show there are some metabolic benefits for this. There can be weight loss benefits for this. And so I think, but my advice would be, if this is something that's interesting to you, because those two things are relevant to you and your life, I think it is one of those things that's really worth trying to do it with a professional.

12:37Because whilst, as I said, there is clear research to show that fasting can be beneficial, absolutely fasting can be beneficial. It can also be quite detrimental to other people And if you're very run down, you've already got high cortisol levels. Fasting can raise the cortisol, which you don't really want to do. And so I think it's understanding you, your body. And I think if the benefits feel relevant to you, then I think if you're able to look at it with a professional. Personally, I think that's the most effective way to look at it. But don't do it thinking it's for gut health. The more robust evidence we have is for metabolic health, meaning the weight loss and your metabolism, rather than thinking about it being a healer for your gut.

13:19I think that's a better approach to have. If this is for you, that might be the way to look at it. Yeah, exactly. And I think for women, it's just being really conscious that there's times, particularly of your cycle, like just before your period, where you really don't want to be fasting. no yeah look at your luteal your follicle phase do a bit of research in fact we're discussing this later actually aren't we we do have a really lovely question now from juliet okay so kind of as i said with the first question which was that there were lots of similar questions from you guys we had the same with our second question which came from juliet over the last few weeks we've seen lots of questions on different nutrition tests that are available and kind of what's valid and what's not so this is what juliet asked my brother recently had a bioresonance test and it's extensive in the results.

14:03Can you explain more about how these kinds of tests work and whether they have any scientific validity? Yeah, and I think, Ella, this is what Belle Gibson did. Yeah, and a reminder for Belle Gibson, who she is, she is the woman that Netflix did the documentary on apple cider vinegar. She was an Australian wellness influencer in kind of the early 2010s who fabricated or completely invented a story about how her diet had healed brain cancer and kind of conned people out of a lot of money and all the rest of it and it all came crashing down and one thing she talked about was these bioresonance testing things so tell us what are they Rae?

14:41So it's an alternative diagnostic method I would definitely not want you to use but it claims to detect imbalances and tolerances or illnesses by measuring the body's energy frequencies with electrodes or handheld devices and before i go on to say any more to give you a nice analogy most gym equipment is 40 inaccurate you know where you hold the handles and it measures your body fat percentage you know we don't have technology like this that's able to measure anything really really accurately unless you're in a science lab practitioners state things like it can say what type of pathogens or foods or toxins you have by the frequency you get back on these tests and how your body responds, Ella, but it's not scientifically validated.

15:27So just be really careful because, oh, it can be so appealing. So appealing, but then also quite debilitating because to your point that there's a lot of things that are often kind of ruled in or out. And I definitely see that for people who are like, oh, I shouldn't be eating. And then they list like 30 different things and it's quite restrictive and difficult. Now, if you do feel you have an intolerance or you are struggling with your gut health or also you're kind of like I've been very stressed or I haven't been eating well and you know I may need to supplement I might be a little bit deficient in something or you want to check your b12 or your vitamin d what is the way for people to kind of go about trying to understand where their health sits in a proven reliable validated way please get a blood test before you supplement please go and beg your gp get one for free or pay private or use your insurance whatever you've got just get a marker of where your levels are at because the worst thing you can do is add a lot of extras on top if you're already at a healthy level there's such a thing as too much of a good thing in terms of supplementation but the professional allergy and nutrition bodies basically specify caution against this bioresonance for food intolerance and allergy testing and there's only one intolerance that is accurate and that's lactose intolerance if you don't have the enzyme lactase and then there are some gluten intolerances that are currently being picked up very difficult to test there's still no accurate test kit that were that's available i mean it would save the nhs thousands if we actually had these test kits and that's why they they charge so much privately they make a lot of money from you because the only way to really know is an exclusion diet and then again with an allergy this is life threatening so just to remember guys intolerances a lot of discomfort not ideal for you an allergy a serious life-threatening reaction where your immune system starts to almost attack yourself in response to the consumed item so just go to your gp i know it's hard and try try and just have a little chat with yourself and say okay i know that i'm feeling vulnerable right now i know i really want answers but i think the best I need to do is seek some professional advice.

17:36Yeah. And when you're saying don't supplement with the exceptions of B12, if you're not eating many animal products, vitamin D for everybody, particularly as we come into the winter. But only 10 micrograms. We've had so many cases of toxicity recently with vitamin D supplements, unless you are deficient in a blood test because it's fat soluble, it stays in the body. And also if you don't eat lots of oily fish and algae oil or something that's giving you those omega-3s.

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20:59Rhi, give us a 101, the body's stress hormone. What is cortisol? What are the effects of having too much, too little? Yeah, 100%. It's produced by our adrenal glands. So almost two little golf ball sized glands on top or just above rather our kidneys in the back area there. And it plays a role in how we respond to stress. So our fight or flight, every time we feel a threat or if there's a car honking in the background and it's stressing you out and you're trying to do your work meeting, you're secreting cortisol probably without realising it. So we do secrete it all the time. But it also affects our metabolism, our blood sugar.

21:34It's interesting because even though continuing glucose monitors aren't accurate, they do pick up on stress as well as food and different items. So inflammation, immune system, our sleep-wake cycle. And it gets a bad rep, Ella, but I don't think cortisol is the enemy because we do need it. And sometimes cortisol, well, all the time it peaks in the morning to help us get up. You know, if our cortisol levels aren't high, goodness me, we would wake up very well feeling alert in the morning because it's our natural way for our body to tell us, hey, you need to wake up a bit, concentrate a bit more.

22:06And then it kind of tapes off throughout the day. But the problem is, like I said, we're constantly triggered by it. And I do worry as well, like you said, with my stress levels. And I think, oh, my goodness, I'm sat here stressing out about this or I'm trying to break up. the kids having an argument or something happening is this secreting stress probably and what happens is acute stress is fine like in small amounts every now and again but when it's chronic and when you say acute stress what we mean here is where you're getting on with your day it's all nice suddenly you hear yeah really loud siren and your body goes yes and then you realize it's all fine and a minute later you're back or you think you're going to miss your train so you're like sprinting down the platform you make the train and you all go back to normal so these like mini little bursts of stress are completely normal totally unavoidable don't worry your cortisol will go up but it will go back down again like that's really normal and that's what you mean by acute cortisol that's just part of life and like we discussed on monday's episode you know i said does the exercise outweigh the stress that's what i meant you know this acute stress that you feel when you're late for running for the bus but yet it's good to run for the bus yeah you're like what's better here but if it's chronic sadly and it's constantly elevated and if you're constantly stressed and the siren is ringing all the time then that's when we get issues fatigue sleep anxiety weight gain we see a lot of that in the clinic weight gain high blood pressure even an increased risk of heart disease and cancer yeah so it's a really interesting one in terms of your question of like how do you reduce it what is it does it matter and i think it's one of those ones where it just gets quite lost in the puddle that is social media because the answer is like you really need it it's not the enemy it's a very important part of your body and it's involved in so many key roles and key functions it's completely normal to have bursts of stress none of that's something to be worried about I don't feel like if you're in a kind of reasonable place in your life you need to be going around being like how do I control my cortisol and like stressing about your cortisol but if you are in a place where you are feeling really burnt out where you are feeling a chronic overwhelming sense of stress that sort of doesn't really dampen down it's not like a stressful week because you have a big deadline or you're doing a big thing like moving house it's just like a long period of consistent stress I think that is where you need to really look at what are the tools you can put in place to try and create that nervous system you know reset where you are going back into your kind of your parasympathetic your rest and digest because those elongated constant high levels of cortisol they are social media is right they are not very good for you is that why you started meditation and yoga was it for stress yeah completely for stress because i mean there's so much glamour about building a business but it's not glamorous when you do it no no and we were god we were just so stressed for years and years and years all we were was stressed 24 7 some days a week I mean so I feel like a different person these days it's so bad for you and you can really feel it and it did feel quite ironic at points yeah I really was then like what can I put in to try and actively bring the stress down and I found things like meditation breath work yoga things that really activate that sense of calm so incredibly effective breath work is crucial and I will say it's probably going to be if you saw a therapist for stress one of the interventions they would give you because I want to reiterate that when you breathe well it also helps your digestive system because when you're stressed blood flow is drawn away from your digestive area to prepare you for a fight or flight response and it doesn't help you digest food well that's why a lot of people experience bloating cravings all sorts of things because our gut and brain is so deeply connected it's that nervous feeling before exams it's the butterflies in the tummy but chronically that can result in an imbalanced microbiome linked to low mood and remember it also depletes nutrition i don't think a lot of people realize that you know magnesium is a funny one because i don't think everyone should blanket supplement it but it can lead to deficiencies in magnesium omega-3 fatty acids and b vitamins when we are chronically stressed and cortisol is constantly circulating and that's why people throw around the phrase balance your hormones you can't really ever balance them out but you can support them and support their functions and your blood sugar goes off you get that crazy roller coaster you get hangry all the time overwhelm happens we don't sleep well and then we're hungry because ghrelin spikes the hunger hormone the next day and we ache I think stress as we get older and I didn't notice it when I was younger Ella I used to get stiff necks sometimes when I was younger and I didn't ever put it down to stress but it was because I was stressed I think it manifests in our body so yeah I think it's a really interesting one course on social media because I think in a way it's really good that I think these trends have raised awareness of the importance of trying to find moments to balance out stress and to make us mindful if we are living in a prolonged period of kind of constant stress but if you're not don't worry about it and if you are do worry about it yeah Because you're not alone.

27:17I think Ella's got some stats she pulled out here. Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, this was all from the Mental Health Foundation, but in the past year, 74 % of people have felt so stressed they've been overwhelmed or feel unable to cope. 51 % of adults who felt stressed reported feeling depressed. 61 % of people felt anxious. 46 % of people said they ate too much or unhealthily due to stress. So it's not really surprising that, again, this kind of cortisol trend, quite focused on quick fixes has taken off because this huge amount of stress is so relevant to so many people and there's so many factors at play here but i had to get a mouth guard because i started tooth grinding every night like chipping away at my teeth wow i think that's stress jaw jaw clenching for sure yeah so it's a really interesting one but i think it's a good hormone to be aware of exactly so the next question is on a similar thread with hormones and it's from Faye and she said seed cycling for hormone health is it a thing or not?

28:13I really like the way Faye phrased this yes so seed cycling is basically a wellness practice where people eat specific seeds during different phases of their menstrual cycle and the idea being here that nutrients in the seeds support hormone balance we're back to hormone balance I know everywhere So typically flax and pumpkin seeds are what's recommended as part of this during the follicular phase, so your first half of the cycle. And then sesame and sunflower seeds during the luteal phase, the second half. And the theory goes that the lignin and zinc, selenium, vitamin E, the essential fatty acids in these seeds could influence estrogen and progesterone activity.

28:54So the hormones involved in your cycle. Rhi, what's the evidence available here? It sounds like common sense, doesn't it? Just eat more seeds in your diet. I mean, I would say don't worry about the particular types of seeds. I would just say get all the seeds and nuts in whenever you can. There's no trials on this though, Ella. There's no clinical trials with seed cycling particularly. And also you can get those nutrients in nuts and different items as well. And it's really important to remember that just by eating more seeds and nuts, you're enhancing your health. so I think the claims on this are also around PMS menopausal symptoms the idea is largely based on the no nutrient content like we said rather than the fact it's a seed it's the healthy fats within it the studies on flaxseed and hormone metabolism may be linked here you know there's always an underlying element of truth when we look at these types of trends that come around and there is research on flaxseed that does support the building of our hormones so what we're saying here is that there is research that showed that flax seeds for example help support the building of your hormones which obviously is a beneficial yeah exactly but it's not balancing out any hormones in particular but eating a variety of seeds just do it guys i think get more seeds in so rather than seeing this as a faddy trend i actually quite like it but i don't like the isolation of which type of seed i think just try and eat as many different seeds and nuts as you can and why not it supports your building blocks of your hormones because it contains healthy plant-based omega-3s alpha-linoic acid a lot of that like you listed there vitamin e zinc all these micronutrients they're such a wonderful affordable part that's not just for birds we can eat it too i think what what to me this is is that actually again it's speaking to these you know nuts and seeds really great kind of group of whole foods and those things are really beneficial for a healthy cycle yeah a thousand percent and so that was a really good question i'm really glad it's been brought up but there are no clinical trials for seed cycling just to conclude on that one so you don't need to become obsessed about which ones you eat on certain days but generally speaking including more nuts and seeds in your diet is beneficial for your hormones for your cycle it's only ever good guys only ever good to eat more question five is from fliss and she said i listened to the wellness scoop on the way to work this morning and was left thinking about the Serena Williams piece we had so much feedback on that Ella the Serena Williams conversation that was about her endorsing GLP ones for weight loss it was and while this topic she said can start with multiple different conversations her takeaway was that a strong woman with all the resources cannot get to the same state she was in pre-children and I think this is what sparked the debate right because like Fliss has written here why should we why do people expect that normal you know it's normal for mums on this earth to just bounce back so when finally someone in the elite has said they can't she quite liked it because she said I love Serena's honesty regarding this but why can society not accept the changes that happen when it affects so many yeah if you're able to address this a bit more that would be really helpful what does happen to your body after having a baby seems to be such a closely guarded secret with so many people claiming you just need to put in a bit of effort to look and function how you did prior to growing and birthing little people i appreciate it's different for everyone and there isn't a normal or a standard but can we talk about what is likely to change and stay different as i would love this to be normalized rather than shamed which is such a nice topic and you know i i totally agree with everything you said me too um okay what happens in pregnancy fliss so all our organs move i mean they are pushed out the way that's why eating can become quite difficult sometimes and we experience with surges of hormones, nausea, all sorts of symptoms.

32:37Our pelvis space widens during pregnancy and after giving birth. Women basically have this huge profound physical, hormonal and emotional changes that we have. I want to discuss the weight gain in pregnancy because we do know there's no denying the amount of pregnancy weight that you put on does dictate how much you weigh post-pregnancy as well. A lot of the weight is the baby, increased blood volume, you know, a whole placenta. You've grown a whole new organ that's sitting inside as well as the baby but most people that put on extra weight than the recommended guidance the guidance actually suggests that women with a healthy pre-pregnancy BMI should gain around and this is a rough estimation remember you can't ever possibly know for sure 11.5 to 16 kilograms if they only put on that they're more likely to return to closer to their pre-baby cells but if you do put on a lot more it's much harder to lose the extra body fat so it depends how well you eat during pregnancy it's a huge thing I wrote a book called deliciously healthy pregnancy funny I thought the you were the word deliciously deliciously Ella deliciously healthy pregnancy because I wanted to make pregnancy sound happy I just wanted it to sound like and encourage people that it is important to eat well but after birth your body does prioritize the recovery and the healing and milk production So you're not meant to suddenly just lose a load of weight.

34:02It's like you have to build up these milk stores from somewhere and hormones such as estrogen and progesterone and prolactin shift dramatically. And those changes when you're sleep deprived, you are not getting any sleep. And when you're stressed, the last thing that's easy to do is think about a calorie restricted diet when you should actually be focusing on more energy and more nutrients to support the growth of this little human and repair and recovery for yourself. because no one has the same birth and it can be difficult. I don't really know what else. It's so emotive. I feel this topic of conversation.

34:35There'll be so many women listening that either haven't had a baby and are fascinated, that don't want one, that have had one and experienced such a difficult time with it, that haven't lost the baby weight. Some that have and, oh, Ella. Yeah, as you said, and I think Fliss clearly felt the same way that you did. If I'm reading this right, I hope that's right, Fliss, that it is, it's a very emotive and personal topic and it's difficult not to feel kind of quite strongly on it. And I think it's really interesting your take on the fact that actually one of the benefits of this ad that Serena Williams did was that she was honestly saying, I found it basically impossible to naturally get back to the weight and the shape and how I felt in my body before I had babies.

35:17And I agree, I think we're quite slow in admitting that and that that can be difficult. And so I agree there's something to be kind of applauded there. but equally I find it really challenging because why should you go back exactly not everyone's naturally built to be a certain shape or size but also our bodies change over time like the idea that you're going to look the same that you did when you were 20 or 25 then you will when you're 50 55 like very very few people stay exactly the same over that time and I think this is just one of the many changes and markers along that way but we our way our looks I think are so often tied to our identity that's quite difficult to kind of re-establish the new us because how did you find it for me it was the opposite I was so nauseous and I was worried I was nauseous the entire pregnancy that I was losing weight I still put on the recommended amount between that amount of weight but for me it wasn't an issue of going over that amount it was I'm struggling to get it in so that's why I think I was back to my pre-baby shape or size purely because of the difficult pregnancy I wish I had had that glowing pregnancy where you felt great and you could just you know the whole nine months enjoy eating but I do really really feel strongly that not all of us are meant to be the same size or shape forever and it does buy into this aging reversing the clock type narrative that we should all be aspiring for that and you know what there is a thin ideal Ella there is still weight stigma is everywhere and you cannot blame somebody for wanting to be in a smaller body because the way you're treated in society you can see it all yeah I totally agree with that and I think it's very very true I don't really know if I have any kind of wise words of wisdom you were beige like me in the first pregnancy oh my gosh I only ate beige I remember our chat on the tube I only ate beige my whole first pregnancy anything that wasn't beige made me vomit yeah so I literally ate just like a hundred different types of potatoes yeah um and I felt pretty awful by then to be honest because obviously as someone that generally eats a very healthy diet I literally hadn't eaten a vegetable in like nine months and I felt revolting just because I like my skin I just I'd eaten so many crisps and so many chips and so many sweets yeah and it's you know you're doing I didn't have a great digestive system no as a result it's definitely not fiber maxing as we talked about on Monday and I just felt like yeah my skin felt it you know I just didn't feel like that energy I looked way older did you find like I find once you have babies as well you just look different because you've been through all that sleep deprivation and growing a human is insane yeah it's absolutely mad and then and then i was pregnant very shortly after that again which was kind of mad but i didn't have that the second time around i didn't i actually say really really normally so i felt so much better i didn't have any of those like weird food aversions or reactions that i'd had first time around but i don't think it's related just to kind of pregnancy and postpartum i just think there's an extraordinary amount of pressure on women's bodies but what would have been better for serena williams is if it wasn't to do with her husband's company you know if it was just her coming out and saying that she took the weight loss jab I think the big issue with it was that it was her husband's weight loss jab company right so yeah it kind of took away that amazing message that even she was struggling I think also maybe it's too like wishy-washy of me but I think it's and I don't think it's just relevant to having a child I think it's these big life changes that people go through I think your weight and your body has almost become symbolic of just a new version of you it's like when you go through something huge fundamentally you're quite different the other side of it and I think that's quite scary and quite uncomfortable and it's almost like okay well let's just get back to who we were before but that's impossible when you've been through something huge be it a baby be it grief be it just huge upheaval ultimately you are quite fundamentally a different person and I think we probably need to feel more comfortable embracing that you know I remember being like so nervous being back in the office and being back around people being like I feel really different and I relate to people differently and I've got different concerns and challenges and as I said I don't think that's just relevant to having a child anyway I think it's also the judgment on people's bodies just isn't going anywhere I mean you and I get it probably every other week someone saying something or commenting on your shape or size it doesn't go away for anybody and until that does die down and we're more compassionate and caring this conversation is never going to get easier I don't think so if anyone is feeling pressured or uncomfortable in their body in their skin like I think it's just really important to know that you're not alone in any shape or form I think it's a very normal part of the process and as we saw even Serena Williams feels that yeah don't feel bad for wanting to lose weight don't feel bad for not wanting to just do you yeah exactly and I think the more we can find to feel comfortable in that the better and the more we can support each other in it and the more open conversations we could have about the pressure we feel and the way that we're feeling 100 that's going to move us in the right direction baby note do you like my breast milk jewelry oh my god is that it this is it this is my little heart can you i don't know if i'm holding it the right way it's really pretty isn't it yeah it's gorgeous little heart guys anyway i've been dying to show all of that for weeks okay right everybody thank you for tuning in today we will be back on monday we can't wait any questions feedbacks um things that you want us to add to the show you just let us know we love being here.

40:48Yeah, thank you, everybody. Keep the questions coming. I'll keep checking all the Spotify reviews for them. And you can always email Ella. Thank you for tuning in. Yeah, Ella at deliciousiella.com. Have a great day. Bye.

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