Fruit Sugar, Plant Diversity & When Healthy Tracking Turns Unhealthy

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1:01Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. With the two of us, as always, I'm Ella Males. And I'm Rhianna Lambert. And as you can tell from our voices, we are so delighted to be here, as always, taking your incredible recommendations and questions. So let's dive into it. What's coming up on today's show? Ruf, hit us with it. And we've got, is fruit sugar actually bad for us? The truth about processed meat and healthier swaps? Smart ways to hit 30 plants a week. where the chia seeds really need soaking. I mean, it's a big episode today. Can you be healthy if you don't eat fruit?

1:40Then when calorie tracking starts becoming unhelpful. First of all, Rhi, have you got any recs for us? Do you know? I do. First one's for you, Ella. I've been so excited to share this. I have found your new garden inspo. Oh my gosh, tell me. So I actually think it might also be something that we'd all aspire to one day, but Shirley Kemp. Okay. So she is, of course, wife of Martin Kemp. Okay. So he was in Spando Ballet. Right. It's funny because I actually bumped into them at Gabby Logan's podcast studio. And I realized I don't live that far away from them. We're having a little chat. And I said, oh, you know, I've got the train in.

2:19How about you? And obviously they drove in, but they weren't going to get on the train, were they? But anyway, she has this incredible Instagram account called Maison No. 9. it is the most stunning garden account and i mean complete inspiration it is absolutely beautiful oh my gosh i can't wait to get it thank you my whole um instagram algorithm is garden garden garden like how to prune tomato plants yeah like the best way to kind of put twine around them so they grow tall we have moved on to a next level of okay honestly it is so beautiful so shout out to Shirley Kent because you have done the most incredible job it's my retirement dream is alongside an animal shelter to have a garden like that oh my gosh okay I can't wait to scroll later and then I actually got the jet washer out and our patio hasn't been jet washed in six years since moved into our house and I don't know what came over me but I really just wanted to clean it I bet that was very satisfying it was very satisfying very satisfying I love a jet wash although I discovered that it has to be done in stages this is very boring I'm telling you It's a niche recommendation, I would be honest.

3:24It's a niche recommendation. And, you know, we only had a jet washer two years ago, so we hadn't really had time to use it. Ella, let's move on from my waffle. I'm sure you've got something far more realistic for people. Okay, do you know my recommendation this week is giant couscous? I love giant couscous. Oh, my gosh. I love it. I hadn't thought about it for ages. I've never cooked it at home, you know. I've only ever bought it on the go. Oh, my God, it's so good. It's so easy. It cooks in packets, we say six to eight minutes. Personally, I think it's more like eight minutes. Where do you buy yours?

3:50I am quite an Ocado fan. Yeah, I am. I think it was an M &S-owned brand one on there. Giant couscous. Oh my gosh, funnily enough, the kids had it at school randomly, which is amazing, the other day. And then they were like, we really like it. And I'm trying really hard to get them to try different things at the moment. Anyway, I made this, may I say it myself, delicious, like red pepper, chickpea, lemon zest, sort of couscous salad. My mum came over on Saturday and we had it as part of a lovely spread with some gorgeous dips and all the rest of it. anyways it's so good because it cooks really quickly the leftovers are amazing as in thinking like rice and pasta the leftovers aren't great whereas giant couscous is amazing i really like quinoa but i appreciate it's also not for everyone but the texture isn't like giant cookers i'm adding it to my chocolate list anyway put it on your list for spring summer salads guys giant couscous is excellent it's so good i've also become obsessed with this micro current device called it oh and i didn't share what the thing i'd brought was that week do you remember and And then I saw you put it on social.

4:50What were you influenced by? So I actually think I maybe should have gone with your one because it's got more research. But I was influenced by Liv. She had this D-Puffy, which is like a hot and cold device that you massage your face with. Ooh, that sounds nice. I'm enjoying it. But then I saw Ella's device and I was like, I should have held out and waited. Oh, my gosh. So I got this device called, yeah, it's called a Zip. I think it's called Zip Halo. Anyways, it's this microcurrent device. Does it vibrate? Not really. Like, so gently. Anyway, you kind of do it around your face. It feels so nice.

5:22You do like four to six minutes. I'm obsessed. I really want to try it. Am I glowing? Yes. But Ella always glows. So for Ella, yes, you're glowing more than usual today. But I'm obsessed. Giant couscous is my core recommendation this week. And then you sent some as well. So we have a lovely bit of listener feedback from Jenny. She said, I'm listening to Sarah Ockhoff-Smith's new book, How to Raise a Gentleman. Oh, I need this book. It's a guide for parents and carers who want to raise kind, emotionally intelligent and respectful boys. I passionately feel it's a must read for anyone with boys, grandparents, teachers.

5:56Everyone, really. It explores the history of masculinity, building emotional intelligence in boys, encouraging open conversations and even challenging online toxicity. This information is so important. And given your platform, I'd be appreciative if you spread the word. She says her lovely little boy is five. and from the time he was young, I could see how the world caters to boys and girls differently. It's so true. I've got two boys, mine are three and six. I agree. Toys, clothing, colours, materials, phrases you use. And she says, I can't bear to think of him changing from the kind, sweet kid he is and feeling like he has to fit into a mould of what it means to be a boy.

6:33She said that we don't teach boys how to embrace their gentleness and that needs to change. And do you know what's interesting, Ella? As a boy mum, I actually had this conversation with my husband the other night. I said, am I mollycoddling by being gentle, kind? And this is the approach I'm very much taking with them. Am I doing them a disservice by sitting down with them and watching the Frog Princess film or Sleeping Beauty? Maybe I should just be letting them watch superheroes all the time and, you know, buying into that area. And I did doubt myself as a parent, but this, thank you for sending this because it's made me feel a little bit better.

7:07I could cry, but it's so difficult raising boys today. Yeah, I so appreciate that. That was such a good recommendation. Thank you. And then, Rhi, you have got actually a voice note for us, haven't you, from Giles as a follow up to our conversation on Monday. I do. Giles is one of the most incredible speakers and researchers. And he has got a lovely voice note for us discussing the differences between weight, the challenges, of course, with GLP-1's mindset around that and genes. Why do people eat? You know, people say I eat because I'm hungry. I stop eating because I'm full. But really why we eat is our appetite, right?

7:45And appetite is an interesting word. It's because it's an integrative term which pulls together a number of different concepts. It pulls together hunger, which we all understand that rumbly feeling in the stomach. It pulls together fullness, which people think is the opposite to hunger, but actually is regulated by a completely different part of the brain and completely different neural circuits. And some people eat because they feel nice, the rewarding elements of it. And so appetite encompasses hunger, fullness and reward. And appetite sits in the middle of this triangle. And some people eat because it's more rewarding.

8:22Other people eat because they feel less full. Other people eat because they're more hungry. But all three parts of the brain, all three of these different behaviors speak to each other. That is our appetite.

8:38we can ask you a question before we go into other people's questions um it just came up to mind for me on fruit sugar because we're going to talk about that in a second now on my algorithm i often see and have seen for a very very long time but i still see it feels more outdated than it did but there is some influencers who eat like i'm just going to be really gentle in the way i use excessive but I'm going to say excessive amounts of fruit like 15 dates as a snack like four bananas and they eat just so much you know it's more like stems from that kind of raw vegan movement that existed in the past can you just sort of slightly break that down because I look at it and I'm like I love dates they're like one of my favorite foods I love them so much I think they're so yummy but like surely that's not a snack what I hear when I hear that is what a missed opportunity to get variety elsewhere and a balance of natural different types of sugars you've got a lot of fructose but where's where's the vitamins and minerals and nutrients coming from other items of food you know that is excess you can have healthy stereotypically healthy food in excess you could have too much broccoli you can too much avocado too much fruit and where i sit on that is that's extreme that's not normal that that is most definitely an extremity i find it really difficult because it's often very slim people and they're like doing this sort of what I eat in a day.

10:01Of course there's no calories in fruit. Fruit is very low energy dense so low calorie essentially yeah and you're filling up on the same nutrients but also a lot of fruit sugars in that quantity probably isn't great either it's just a lot of work for your liver but it's not dangerous per se it depends on the individual and what their base level of health is and when they're doing that as to how it impacts them. But they're very slim because they're missing out on the healthy fats that their brain needs to function, their heart needs to be supported. They're only feeding their microbiome one type of food for their gut bugs.

10:37I find it tricky because there's a lot of what I eat in a day and that kind of thing. And then you see people being like, yeah, I'll follow your plan. Can I follow your plan? Because they want to look like that. Anyway, I see it a fair amount, probably because I spend too much time watching it because it fascinates me. I haven't seen that in about 10 years. I reckon that's going to make a resurgence. And if you're seeing it now, it's probably going to come around again. It comes about the same thing, doesn't it? Where like it's lots of people in kind of this kind of sense of an idealised body image.

11:05And then when anyone has that kind of idealised body image, everyone else wants to know how they got it. And then they can sell it to them. Essentially, that's what I see. And there's just such currency in that. Anyway, this is just one of the many different iterations of that. but I find it crazy and then you see people who feel kind of not I don't want to say vulnerable because that's not always the case but oftentimes vulnerable underneath being like can I have your meal plan do you know we said one week I think it was like three weeks ago we said why do people feel the need to share what they eat in a day to begin with really commercially viable exactly so we've just got to stop and think why are you telling me what you ate that day like what do you gain from loads of validation from strangers on what you ate in a day is it to sell something is it for your self-esteem but then it's interesting because we've also had some emails from listeners who said yes but sometimes i want to know what you guys eat in a day because it'll give me ideas and inspiration but that's different because we won't do a full video that says why do you eat in a day you can share your couscous for lunch at the weekend they're always saying i'm curious not because i want to copy it because i'm trying to obviously we don't even have video for this no we don't know what we look like we love we love the new video the sense of like i want more ideas and inspiration and like things that fit into a busy life so wanting to see it for that reason which feels very different to me I get it I mean perhaps some videos like this is what I had for lunch one day but you don't need to do the whole full day what's the best thing you cooked last week the best thing I cooked last week was this tart I made for the kids I'm trying to get some really traditional different foods in that I don't often go towards and I made a butternut squash, feta, easy short crust pastry tart.

12:41That sounds very fancy. I made it with my three-year-old who he got on his little toddler towel, you know, puts his apron on. You just whisk up the eggs, add the roasted butternut squash, some onions and some feta, put it in your short crust pastry that you put in your tin. You can buy a ready roll-up. You don't have to make short crust pastry from scratch. It bakes in like 25 minutes. Lucky kids. I know. It was really good. Although my eldest proceeded to say, I don't like that mummy the minute he looked at it and then he ate it and said he did like it so you know what it's like you've got to keep pushing oh my god i do okay sorry we've digressed it sounds like anna does our first question today she said hi ladies i love the pod it keeps me sane on my 5 a.m run with two small kids 5 a.m runs i think she goes on 5 a.m runs and she has two small kids i don't think the kids are going on the runs yeah i think way we're reading i'm reading it wrong anyways my almost five-year-old love sausages and while i try to serve loads of veggies alongside i worry about processed meats and additives.

13:33I buy higher quality sausages, but they still come up as unhealthy on apps. Is once a week okay? Are there better options available? If you're a meat eater and you love sausages, just try and swap for chicken sausages every now and again. Look, they don't taste the same because they don't have the saturated fat content of a processed sausage or pork sausage. But I do think for your health overall, it is better to cut down items like that. If they love them, see if you can get them into that. It's important to remember sausages have a lot of saturated fat and salt. Plant-based alternatives are good to make a switch initially.

14:07But again, you don't have too much of those. They're also UPF. Yeah, and they're not great either. Like I think, but obviously ingredient wise, but also I think kind of flavor wise. That's when I always struggle. And it's interesting, been in many a buyer meeting recently, kind of talking about the plant-based space and that part of the supermarkets and how shoppers are shopping. And actually like the number of kind of fully vegans, vegetarians very much on the decline. And what's rising is people who are flexitarian, they're not necessarily going to use that themselves, but people who are trying to reduce meat intake and increase that plant intake, they're listening to the wellness scoop.

14:44But they're seeing these articles, they're becoming aware of it. And I always feel like sometimes if you do a swap and it's disappointing, it's the worst thing to do. Do you know what I mean? Where you're like, you love a food and you make a swap and the swap's just nowhere near as good. So you're better off having less of the thing you love. That's my viewpoint. And then really prioritising kind of health giving foods on other days. Like we know, obviously, the processed red meats aren't very good for our gut health. And my personal advice is then. On your risk of cancer. Exactly. But then really prioritise health giving foods on other days and other meals for the breakfast that day.

15:17Because I just always conscious that like I remember someone in our office saying this. This was ages ago, but his boyfriend was a vegan. I think they were quite newly together and he was really trying to get on board with it and he went and he bought some vegan bacon and he loved normal bacon and he cooked it and he thought it was so rank he went straight to the shop and bought normal bacon and I was like yeah that was a way to lose him whereas if we instead of doing that had made like the most delicious spread with like amazing kind of garlicky pan-fried sundried tomato baked beans like but with homemade butter beans and also juicy and delish and you've got an amazing maybe like that Mexican brunch you went to kind of inspired avocado and salsas and all these like plant foods but that are so delicious you probably would have inspired him to eat more you've got anyway that's just my two cents on it i like that two cents now i think it's an approach that would work for lots of people it's just it's important to remember that we need all these different options for different people of course like you've got the generation of people that have had a pork sausage for breakfast seven days a week you know and they need to make a switch that's when perhaps a meat alternative is the only option.

16:21They're not going to want to deviate from that. They're very stuck in their ways. And of course, that is better than increasing your risk of cancer and saturated fat. But ultimately, I remember working with a brand back in 2017, creating veggie sausages that were actually vegetables with heck. And I had a whole range. I had my little name on the pack. And I remember they were green and purple. They were vibrant colors because we were actually using vegetables. We went to the factory and checked it all. and that sort of thing just didn't take off because people just like you just said Ella they don't want vegetables they want a sausage they don't want a vegetable sausage it's interesting again if you talk to buyers and supermarkets they always say these these veg forward brands yeah most of the time they don't work anyway back to your child back to your five-year-old I would most definitely be conscious of how much red processed meat maybe you can swap to like the heck chicken sausages or something instead for now and just see how you go yeah totally and I think for other people if you're cooking for me my biggest advice is if you just want to reduce your intake and up your intake of plants really just focus on something that's completely different like if you love red mink and you love steak maybe instead of having a couple of times a week it's once a week and on another meal make something that's like a beautiful like slow roasted aubergine and lentil ragu with shallots and garlic and a lovely rich tomato sauce and a miso for depth it's completely different so you can't compare the two and then you can kind of enjoy a bit of everything i love that let's get creative in the kitchen everyone okay we're going to do a very quick ad break and when we come back we are going to be talking about all sorts of things so we'll see you in one sec this spring cozy earth makes the case that what you wear at home matters just as much as what you wear out of it and maybe more and i could not agree more as a homebody and especially during the spring when I am equally enjoying the warmer weather outside and figuring out the best ways to stay cozy inside, especially during our frequent spring showers.

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19:36That's code SCOOP at CozyEarth.com for up to 30 % off. And if you see a post-purchase survey, mention you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cut-offs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. that perfect hang on the patio sundress those sandals you can wear all day and all night and you've had enough of shopping from your couch done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope it's time for a little in-person spring treat it's time for a trip to ross work your magic okay welcome back our next question comes from emily who is in west sussex hi i really appreciate your balanced approach to nutrition so i've been focusing on improving my diet and fiber intake and I eat throughout the day breakfast snacks and after dinner I see mixed advice online here we go it's the fruit and sugar question about fruit and sugar is there such thing as eating too much fruit I mean we have kind of touched on that Ella but what are you what are your thoughts actually you ask me I want to know your thoughts I mean look this is again the same thing like I've seen as I said some people online and with when I see people online I mean people with like hundreds of thousands if not millions of followers so people with significant influence on a community where they're eating like 15 to 30 days.

20:58Are they often in bikinis and things? So I'm visualizing what it used to be 10 years ago. They're often like, yeah. There's a lot of flash available. Yeah, yeah. Selling a kind of very aspiring lifestyle and body image. Very low body fat percentages. Very low body fat. And obviously I look at that and I'm like, it's hard for me to not say that's too much food because also to your point, like if you eat six bananas or 30 days, you're not going to eat other things as well because you're going to be really full. And so that's challenging. I feel like as a quote unquote normal person, I think there's many other things to be worried about.

21:28And I feel, you know, Monday we were talking about how kind of the idea that plant milks are the root cause of childhood obesity, as per some headlines kind of intonating, is very hard to see that. And I think fruit sugar is kind of to me the same. Like it feels inherently positive versus many other things. And like you've got to eat how you enjoy, right? Exactly. Like the studies, there's no studies that say eating fruit is bad for you. I feel like we over-prioritise vegetables when we talk about healthy food to fruit. We do, we do. There's no harm in having like three portions of fruit and two of veg one day.

22:01But what Ella's discussing with that trend is really extreme. And that is not normal to have just fruit in your diet. But for the majority of us are actually not eating enough fruit, Ella. Totally. And I remember like getting your five a day, we all know we really struggle with it. That's why one in five adults manages it. Only 4 % of people get enough fiber. But like we really struggle. So kind of get it where you can. But is that because we fear fruit? Is that maybe if we actually just ate some more fruit, we'd be hitting those targets? Yeah, like wouldn't it be better for three or four portions of that to come from fruit than not having it?

22:30Do you know what I did for fun at the week? It's totally off topic, but slightly related is we've got a little juicer. My friend Lucy got a juicer. I am quite influenced actually by people more than I think. Lucy, Lucy, you got a juicer. I saw her doing it with her kids for fun. I thought I want to show my kids how fruit juice is made. So I got one of those tiny juices. You know, the traditional one that just like an orange juice. Yeah, you just hold my grandma used to have it. You put the grapefruit on top of the orange and they're like, wow, mommy, that's like eight oranges to make that much juice.

22:58It's like I know. And isn't it delicious? And I was just celebrating it. But I wanted them to really see the difference. I didn't give a lecture about it. We just all enjoyed the fresh fruit juice for breakfast. It was a lovely treat. But I think we just lack so much education with how good fruit actually is. And all of the research, all the long randomized control trials point towards longevity, cardiovascular health, you know, increased fiber when you eat fruits. I'm not talking about fruit juice. I'm not talking about when you eat fruit. I mean, grapes, they were demonized for being sugar bombs, weren't they?

23:28So ridiculous. And then you've got a whole generation of people that are buying protein bars instead of grapes. And I guess the better choice is, well, it is the grape. Oh, my God. You know what you're going to be obsessed with? First of all, I made watermelon juice at the weekend. And it was so good. Oh, that's what I should do next. Blended watermelon with some mint, lemon, just a teeny squeeze, and then honey. I saw Millie McIntosh do that. Oh my God, it was so good. There's a trend going around making the... Oh, is there? Yeah, Millie's very good at that. She tries all the wildest trends. Okay.

23:57Yeah, because one of the girls is obsessed with watermelon. I know I had just so much watermelon. Anyway, it was so yummy. Oh my God, the thing you'll be obsessed with is a brand called Fruit Riot. They're only in Tesco at the moment. It's a friend of Matt's from the US and they've gone nuts in the US and he's actually distributing it over here. But they're frozen grapes with sour candy coating. So you know like sour candy, like sour sweets. Oh, like the sour candy kitten ones. Yeah, exactly. So the coating of that, but without the sweets on a frozen grape. Oh, I like that. You'll love that. That's cool.

24:28There's another one that we got the other day. This one, I don't know. We got it in Sainsbury's. I don't know if it's anywhere else. They're called Hidden Fruits and it's like an ice cream tub and they have chocolate covered frozen raspberries. Yeah, but I've been buying those true fruit ones. Oh, true fruit ones, yeah. It is. But you're like the ingredients on the hidden fruit ones. Yeah, because true food's got a lot of emulsifiers in their chocolate. And I think I'll prefer the... This one's hidden fruits. Nice. Okay, I'm going to check it out. Oh, I'm very excited now. I've got some new snacks for the evening.

24:52Okay, so we have got a question from Sophia. She said, Hi, thank you for your honest and simple approach to nutrition. It's made such a difference. I'm trying to eat 30 plants a week and batch cook for convenience. But eating the same meals repeatedly reduces variety. do you have any tips for maintaining plant diversity while still batch cooking especially for breakfasts yeah really nice question Sophia and like I would say probably reduce the variety and in lots of cases certainly for me would also reduce like fun and enjoyment and joy from food which I'm very passionate about and I think it's like a fundamental key to success when it comes to a healthy diet over time so I totally get it like you're doing the quote-unquote right thing by batch cooking and getting healthy food in there, but then maybe not enjoying it.

25:39It depends. It's very difficult to give general advice in the sense of I don't know what your lifestyle is and how little time you have. For me, like I wouldn't batch cook breakfasts because I like to eat different things in the morning. And I think there's lots of different things you can have, be that like overnight oats and with chia one day. And, you know, you can do some nice, maybe like dried apricots and peanut butter on the top. And then another day it might be, you know if you eat eggs it's like boiled eggs with nice toast or it's avocado on toast but I think for breakfast it's quite hard to batch cook with variety if I'm honest and I think there's quite a lot of five minute breakfast available so if it was me I would do that things like smoothies are quite nice to like batch in advance because obviously you can do just freezer bags or you can make one even the night before and then just have it to go in the morning exactly I keep doing a different one each night.

26:31You can put it all in a freezer bag. So you can put in your fruit, your different nuts and seeds, ginger, whatever you're going to put in and pop it all in a bag. And then you literally just dump that into the blender with some milk or some liquid. And then you're ready to go. I think I agree with topping. So like if I was going to make, I don't know, we made a really delicious lentil ragu this week and I've got leftovers and like I could do it one day. But you could do it with a different base. Yeah, exactly. So I did it just in pasta, super simple Sunday night supper. But then another night this week, I'll probably do it.

27:03And I've got some like soft shelled tacos. So I'll probably do it with that. Giant couscous. Exactly, some giant couscous. But so I'll do it with tacos and I'll do some avocado. We'll have sriracha. I'll do some like a kind of yogurty situation with it. Might do some roasted sweet potatoes. So when you put all that on top, it's going to taste like a very different meal. And then I probably would use, if I had extra, I wouldn't use that for a couple more weeks to get that variety. but that's just me. Yeah, no, I think it's really good advice, Ella. And as regards to your gut bugs, I wouldn't worry, it sounds like you're doing a fantastic job.

27:35You're very aware of it and you've just got to keep striving to do what you can for you. I wouldn't panic about the 30 plants to that extent would be my own advice there because it sounds like you're doing great by even just batch cooking. And also remember like nothing in life has to be perfect, like 27 plants in a week, excellent. 32, also excellent. I know, it's still really good. The incremental difference between 29 and 30 is probably small. Also, I think that's always a nice reminder. So the next question we've got is from Julia. She says, hi, Ella and Rhi. Thank you for your evidence-based and compassionate approach.