Fussy Eaters, BMI Myths & The School Dessert Debate

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1:03Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we're both here as your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And we have got the best questions from you, our lovely listeners today on our Extra Scoop. First of all, Rhiannon, have you got any good recs for us? What do we need in our life? okay so I've started A Court of Thorn and Roses the book um so now I'm moving on to the ACOTAR series that everybody was talking about as discussed really there's so many emails in the inbox being like I'm in this phase two this romantic world has sucked me in oh my goodness and I had to persevere slow burner I have to say this book whereas fourth wing pulled me right in but oh interesting Court of Thorn and Roses more of a slow burn such a slow burn I mean I'm halfway through the book and I'm only just getting hooked.

1:53Whereas fourth wing, it was like straight away for me. So now I am completely invested. Okay. That's good intel. It's a very strange world. I'd say more strange than the dragons, Ella. But I also want to recommend if you want an uplifting moment, this had me in floods of tears and it's a Britain's Got Talent clip from Shanie Wallace. and she's 92 92 and shanie gets up on stage in front of simon cowell you know amanda holden and is this an old clip gone viral i don't know if it's current or old i didn't see the time stamp on it i should have had a look but it's going viral now so it probably is a case of it being old and going viral i suppose but she's 92 and she looks phenomenal and she starts saying you know you'll know me i was last on the stage and it's 70 years ago and it just had me welling up because it turns out she is Nancy from the film Oliver.

2:50No. You know, the original, yeah, she was Nancy. And she gets up and sings and, oh, Ella, you know when you watch those types of, I mean, I've got a love-hate relationship with the show because I've been on BGT before in the past and had all those yeses and it's all a bit fixed and everything's obsolete. It's a TV show, guys, before it's a talent show. Just remember that. But this clip had me welling, like crying. Oh my gosh, I need to go and look that up. And then I went to see Lucy Jones, my friend in Les Mis. She's smashing it, heavily pregnant, playing Fonteen, killing it. Ella, you went to see Matilda.

3:24Oh my gosh. First of all, I love Les Mis and I'm just counting down till we can do a family trip there because I'm obsessed. It's just unreal. But I went to see Matilda with the family and with my brother and his wife and their kids as well on the weekend. and oh my gosh can I just say Matilda the musical is unreal it is so good the little girl that played Matilda was just so beyond in her talent Ella cried everybody oh my gosh she had a huge standing ovation every single person on the theatre was I'm like crying again yeah I know she's welling up again that's going period anyway I was crying my eyes out everyone was standing up clapping and like shouting at her and she welled up with emotion as well and it was all just too much anyways but it's such a great show oh my god I can't tell you how much I enjoyed it we all loved it Matt was crying as well probably won't mind me saying honestly Timothy Chalamet wherever you are to dismiss live theatre and performance and we are going to keep going on about it I think because I think it's absolutely fantastic.

4:34And it got Matt going too. I also, before I forget, Ella, moving on from Matilda, there is a book that I thought you'd appreciate called The Anti-Burnout Book by Dr. Emma Hepburn. And I think it's just been released. And that is on my radar. I just thought I'd shout it out. I'll put it on my radar. Yeah, because it's something I now think people are talking about. But I know we both really wanted to talk about the Louis Theroux. Oh my gosh. Okay, so Louis Theroux, just in case you aren't in the UK, and don't know him he's probably he's by far one of the most prolific if not kind of just after David Attenborough the most prolific documentary maker in the UK has been making amazing documentaries for decades and what he tends to do as a general rule of thumb is go and spend time with controversial characters but he does it in a very non-judgmental way so he gets a lot out of them and it's a very interesting exploration of kind of different cults and counterculture movements um he's absolutely fantastic anyways he's just made a new one on netflix called manosphere um in case you weren't aware of it it is really interesting i have to say well our producer and i were just talking about this i watched adolescence when it came out what was that about a year ago and obviously thought it was one of the best shows I've seen in ages.

5:53It is just, I think, objectively speaking, a phenomenal piece. But I guess there was a tiny part of me that was skeptical that a normal, quote unquote, otherwise happy child with nice parents, you know, parents that care about them, could do something so awful, could be transformed by such a way by the online world that not knowing what was going on on a teenager's phone could be quite so dangerous. And over the last year, obviously having that awareness, the rise of AI, the change in the online world, have just become increasingly aware of the fact that I was completely wrong on that. And I think this documentary on the manosphere highlights that to such an extraordinary degree that, I mean, we're all impressionable, but I think we probably could all collectively agree that teenagehood is an incredibly impressionable, vulnerable period.

6:47And the exposure that you can have to these figures and their viewpoints of the world and how that could shape your identity is absolutely petrifying. It's that phrase, if you say something with confidence and conviction, you will be believed. And I feel... When the guy says, he's looking at the Miami cityscape and he's like men built this and louis three's like so sorry do you know that that every building we can see was built and like the architect was man he was like he doesn't really answer it but it's like how can you like concretely say that the entire miami cityscape you can see was built by a man i mean like he said something like name one thing that a female has invented and we're like well wi-fi everything you know marry cure and you know the fact is we can find it entertaining and funny but the terrifying like underline is literally that these men completely and utterly believe in themselves and their messaging and when asked are you a misogynist to one of these male influencers he said no because i don't hate women you're like no but you've just said you want multiple wives one-sided polygamy and also he said oh she just cleans up after me.

8:00She's happy to do it. It was an unbelievably confusingly terrifying world. I could not get over what I was watching. And there was a very interesting bit with the mum of one of these men towards the end. I don't know if you've got to yet. I don't think I've got there quite yet. I'm probably two thirds of the way, three quarters of the way through. And he definitely wasn't brought up to be that way. And what Louis Theroux exposed was perhaps there's a lack of male role models in these men's lives from a young age or lack of parental role modeling in some cases that shape their beliefs. But there's a huge movement because I'd heard of Andrew Tate, obviously, and things that he does and says, but I hadn't heard of this world at all either.

8:43That's the interesting thing with the online world is you can have things that are enormous, absolutely huge, millions, tens of millions of people even engaging in it, but it still exists in an online niche and so it doesn't it's not kind of famous in the conventional way that I think when things used to be famous if that many people were aware of them they'd exist in kind of common culture as well I mean like traditional broadcast media for example but now you can have this enormous community that exists online that actually then other people just never ever heard of. And Jill what's interesting is I saw Spencer Matthews was berated for speaking out against it, which is so interesting.

9:20He tried to say, this is not okay. You know, being a man in the spotlight, I suppose, I think I actually appreciate someone like that coming out and saying this is not okay. But he was completely and utterly taken down in the media saying, well, you used to be that type of person in his past, which I think he's very open about. But that's so sad that we're now putting down men that are trying to speak up for women, regardless of their past or not. I also believe strongly everyone should be allowed to change. I agree. I'm interested producer Will just for a male opinion on this world. You know, as women, we're obviously outraged, but I'm interested.

9:57Ted Will, Will, have you heard of it? Yeah, I was aware of it. I kind of obviously there's the Andrew Tate side, which I think is probably the more famous aspect of it. But I was conscious of the world surrounding that. I don't think Andrew Tate exists in a vacuum. And also his kind of way of doing it is kind of quite, it's easy to kind of replicate as well, I think. So, yes, I was aware of it. Wow, that's so interesting. So, see, whereas Ella and I weren't, and I'm worried that as a mother of two boys, I mean, obviously, I'm going to be keeping my sons off socials as long as I physically possibly can.

10:31That's the last thing I want to pop up on their phones when they're teenagers. Well, that's what's so frightening, I think, about it. And we obviously spoke on Monday's episode about this Mumsnet campaign for social media. But I think I do think in the way that adolescents moved the public conversation forward in terms of a more legislative approach to it. I think that this will take that one step further. But I also, again, it comes back to this insane power and to be honest, lack of accountability that these enormous technology companies have. where ultimately, as we know, controversial content is what performs on their algorithm.

11:09And so the more controversial they are, the more clickbaity they are, the more effective their marketing is. And it's quite clear in so many ways that lots of them don't actually believe in everything that they're saying. Like, you own an OnlyFans site, but would disown your child if they were on OnlyFans. Like there's some very clear gaps in the rhetoric and it's exposed pretty quickly. It falls down pretty quickly, but it's so effective online. No. And also there's a huge body dysmorphic issue to discuss here as well because they... Looks maxing. Yes. Is that what it's called? Okay. Next Monday's trend, looks maxing.

11:46We're going to go into that. It's very interesting. Really affecting men, but I think will... It's also just a terrible name. So yeah, looks maxing Monday. Looks maxing. that's so interesting because all of these men were trying to replicate a Ken Barbie doll physique, essentially. I don't know how else to describe it. And if you weren't that, you know, they took a look at Louis Theroux as he walked in and Louis said to the first man, he said, what do you think of my arms? You know, he was very direct with the guy. And yeah, that's quite disturbing in itself. The body image, the dysmorphia, there's, I mean, I dread to think how many steroids and things are being pumped around.

12:23There's a lot of conversation to be had on it Ella it's just really disturbing isn't it there's also so much on image and peptides as well in the media I know we've talked about this before so we might sneak that back into looks maxing on Monday if you guys have just made a few notes on my phone look maxing bring it on and we've got some recommendations from our listeners today that are actually quite positive yes we have such a nice one from Amy who listens to the wellness scoop from Washington DC in the US she says I love Ree's focus on adding things in as opposed to cutting things out me too loading up my oatmeal with yummy fruits, nuts and seeds has become a cherished part of my morning ritual and I've been cooking several of Ella's recipes on repeat to bring to the office for lunch looking at you squash and tomato doll.

13:04I'm actually writing in with a recommendation for another podcast I think you guys might enjoy. I'm 35, two young boys, four and two and relate to so much of what you both share about your lives, including the pressures of juggling parenthood with everything else. Good Inside podcast by Dr. Becky is a great podcast about parenting and wellness and her February 19th episode, just 25 minutes long talks about rest and guilt in such an interesting way what struck me the most was the line rest is not a reward which was so powerful i immediately thought of ella's focus on slowing down and living well now emulated by re highly recommend i love that okay so we have a good podcast recommendation everybody and also just to reiterate washington amazing we've got some lovely listeners all around the world on this podcast and we appreciate your input and what is going on in your society where you are we'd love to hear it yeah and it's fun to know where you're from okay question one today comes from louise i tried your chia pancake idea for my very fussy five and three year old i use greek yogurt flour milk chia flaxseeds honey and 70 dark chocolate and they absolutely loved them and i now make them for them every morning which makes me feel so much better about getting them a nutritious breakfast and they think i'm the best mom making chocolate pancakes every morning that really makes me happy okay my question is is there anything else i could add to the pancakes i wouldn't change the taste or texture but would make them even more nutritious fruit or nut butter toppings are a no for them so it's got to be going into the batter so that's question one and then she's got a second one ella which is my second question is do you have any other similar hidden nutrient tips for my fussy children they're staples at the moment a spag bol spaghetti bolognese sorry i abbreviated that and you didn't even write it um homemade pizzas despite my best efforts to introduce new foods and healthy options.

14:51I'm thinking puddings or snacks with disguised nutrients similar to the pancakes or ways I can add things into the meals to boost. Ella, over to you. Oh, I just love your approach. I feel like, Louise, you're smashing it in life. And obviously those pancakes are such a nice example. You've got Greek yogurt, great for protein source, chia and flax for fiber, healthy fats, a little deliciousness from your honey, dark chocolate so lucky kids I mean there's obviously other things you can add in and tweak I make pancakes for my kids that are often one egg with one overripe banana a tablespoon of nut butter normally peanut butter some jumbo oats and self-raising flour sometimes I'll add hemp seeds or chia seeds as well and then when I cook them sometimes and this might not be for your children but put blueberries in the batter as I cook them they absolutely love them I just whiz everything up in a mini blender and they love them they're super quick really nutritious but in terms as well if you didn't want to try a new recipe and keep your own things like maybe finely milled oats or oat flour in there would be amazing or ground almonds which you can use as a type of flour a spoonful of nut butter in the batter as well um again just like a teaspoon of nut of almond butter probably won't really change any of the flavor but obviously we know i'm so good for us or a little bit of mashed banana as well i love that and then if you're thinking of getting super duper creative you can start adding like a bit of the top of the broccoli to pancakes and they don't often see it depends on the age of the kids on terms of nutrients and isn't squash a good one to do or carrot you can mix in little bits my kids also we do green pancakes but more for supper because you can do rainbow ones yeah and i'll do a tablespoon or so of just from a jar of pesto a little bit self-raising flour and then some just blanched peas and edamame some spinach and flour, I think I already said, and an egg.

16:42And that's it takes me like five minutes. They really like them. So that could be a nice sneak. And then I'll do like a yogurt pesto dip or something for them to put them into. And then you last week, didn't we cover the legendary pita pizzas that we were making? Because you can do so many different things with the tomato sauce, I feel is the key for hiding everything. Yeah. Or even in the bolognese, like even I know it sounds so simple but even if you do just switching up the onions you know for the diversity for gut health we obviously want 30 different plants we're using a red onion white onion a shallot neeks those are three different plants for your 30 so you could be switching those up or yeah exactly you could finally really finally chop up one leek or a few mushrooms super super diced they're not really going to know they're there so that's probably where i would start is not really fundamentally changing your bolognese recipe but switching up the onion try one extra carrot finely finely diced or one leek or just three mushrooms finely diced um blend some beans in any sauce that's your fiber tip just to get a bit more fiber into your meals you can mix butter beans they they're so soft and mushy they blend really nicely into so many different recipes and sometimes with making your own pizzas i find again if my kids are in charge the things like corn for example like just tinned sweet corn they'll sprinkle it on because they like the idea of sprinkling on and then they eat it wonderful question that's making small nutritional wins where we can our next question is from lily hi wellness scoop i hope you're all doing well i'm obsessed with the pod and i've taken away so many little habits over the past year to add into my daily routine which feels manageable but also really transformational oh i love that that's really nice.

18:24She said, I saw the below clip on social media the other day and I wanted to send it in. Firstly, because it made me pretty irate. This is a public figure who claims to advocate for health and boasts 1 million followers. I know that this is an advert for a specific product, but I do find this messaging so confusing. I know after listening to hours of the wellness scoop and studying fiber at university that this can't be true. But I catch myself honestly questioning myself and feeling the need to research whether this is true or not. My question therefore is less direct to fibre specifically, but more how can we manage and limit the consumption of health claims that litter social media?

19:02I'm very careful who I follow, but with paid advertising, there is no escaping it. Any tips or ideas to verify a claim or spot a fake one would be so helpful. Thank you so much for everything you do on the pod. I'm generally grateful to have it as a resource and tool in my back pocket. It's truly inspiring and it's changing lives. She's got in brackets one tin of beans at a time. We're a cliche with our love of beans, aren't we? Such a great question, Lily. So just to summarize what the ad Lily's talking about is, it's basically an ad for supplements brand and it's got someone from Made in Chelsea in it.

19:35And this person, the premise basically is the celeb asking what is enough fiber and then kind of sarcastically say, do I need to eat enough fiber that I'd I don't think he says it quite so politely poo myself so basically kind of slightly poking fun at needing to eat the recommended daily amount and more fiber and annoys me I bet it does and then the person who answers the question basically is advertising a probiotic and essentially in a nutshell says don't bother eating fiber if you're buying this probiotic you don't need it. So Lily, I'm not really surprised you're confused. It's insane. It's completely mad.

20:16Shouldn't be allowed. Yeah. That's really unethical and that company should know better. But it's also, it's just not true because probiotics and fibre do different jobs. And I think that's the key crux of the issue. So you can't take a probiotic and not eat any fibre. Expect your bowel to suddenly improve. Yeah. So just to remind us, Rhi, what does fibre do and what do probiotics do? Because I think that's very important cementing here. Yeah, this exact question Ella asked at my book launch actually the other week, ironically. So fibre is the indigestible part of the plant and that fibre itself is almost like a prebiotic.

20:51Fibre helps feed the bacteria within our gut. It also helps us remove cholesterol, it helps us excrete waste products. So fibre could help excrete microplastics. It's also linked to keeping our heart health happy and reducing blood sugar spikes. So fiber has so many different roles and reducing your risk of cancer. It is pivotal. We don't just think of fiber as bowel movements, but of course we need to be looking at our bowel movements. They are important. So fiber helps nourish that garden. Whereas a probiotic is inserting live bacteria, not the fiber, the live bacteria directly to the gut. And there's also limited research for many different brands as to whether that bacteria reached the gut alive in the place it needs to be at the bottom of the colon.

21:36So yes, probiotics have a place. We know that. But fiber is the fundamental, not just for your poo. It's about so many areas of your health. Even your DNA is linked to how much fiber within your gut. So it frustrates me, Ella. I get really angry messaging like this. Yeah. I mean, fiber is the food in the most basic way. Fiber is the food and the probiotics are inserting more bugs to eat said food. And so it's really odd because ultimately you want both together. Like it would be totally amiss to be spending money on probiotics, but then not feeding them in the long run. You know what? It sounds like they're just saying, go and eat a load of protein bars, just have our probiotic and don't bother with any actual whole foods or density because it doesn't matter.

22:25And that's just that's kind of the messaging that I think people get from that type of conversation. And it's really poor. It's really poor. And also, we'll go on to now how to kind of critically evaluate ads. But just one quick thing you just raised, which I think is important to say, there are so many probiotics out there. Lots of them don't have the research to show that those probiotics can actually reach the gut alive. And if those probiotics, if the bacteria aren't reaching the gut alive, they aren't going to do anything. also how to decipher it so there are people out there selling probiotics claiming they've got lots of research behind them whereas actually they've not done any research at all on their own product and what they've done is selected studies on individual strains of bacteria pulled them together to make it sound like because their product contains all these different types of strains that their product's superior to others it's very effective marketing because you're bashing other products in return.

23:24But what it hasn't done is actually studied, does my probiotic actually work with this formulation? Totally. And the way a capsule is created and the whole thing around it, it's not as simple as just it contains this strain of bacteria. And you see that with, this isn't just limited to probiotics. We see that all the time. Do you know what I like about, so I want to mention, I think it's really important with Transparent that Simprove is one of our sponsors. And I just want to say as a health professional, the reason I'm okay about it being our sponsor is because Simprove has clinical research on its own product and they actually invest in looking into how they can help other areas of health and we're talking lots of different conditions and constant investigation and research.

24:06But also lots of the research that proves that Simprove work is independent to the brand which is very important to say as well. Exactly and we're not saying you all need to go and have that at all we're just saying please just eat more fibre but this conversation is ludicrous the fibre and probiotic one. Yeah, so that distills the kind of crux of the ad, which is that you don't want to be taking probiotics. I know people are cross with us for our simplification, but it's no point buying pets to put in your stomach if you don't then feed the pets. You've got to feed your pets. Got to feed the pets, guys.

24:35So basically look for consensus, not outliers. So if a claim goes against the majority of scientific guidance, like this one obviously does, be cautious, you know, check the World Health Organization or the National Dietary Guidelines message a registered nutritionist but even that in itself is hard to decipher these days so beware of miracle claims if anyone's saying this is the one thing that changed my entire life and I didn't do anything else I just took this one thing that's obviously a humongous red flag. Yeah no single pill powder liquid whatever can be presented as the solution to complex health issues that's just ultimate red flag and fear-based language the word toxic or never eat this you just wouldn't hear credible doctors professionals using that language because it provokes anxiety and instills disordered relationships with food and our job is to deliver safe messaging not to fear manga and then one Another thing to add on to that type of messaging is that it's so, so important that what I eat in a days are not representative of what will work to you.

25:45And like we said with the manosphere stuff at the beginning, people are creating content now purely just to go viral and they will do anything. So just it's hard to decipher. The other thing I would just say as a closing point on that, and I think this is true with everything in life, but it's definitely true generally with health and wellness. if something looks too good to be true it probably is you know ultimately as we said like health is so nuanced it's so complex it's so multifaceted what works for one person won't necessarily work for another person it's all sorts of different pillars put together it's not you know you even if you had one supplement that would cure everything from your diet which as we've seen in all these studies looking at these powders that claim to do that isn't true at the moment your stress your sleep your movement your relationships your sense of purpose of community are all foundational to your health as well so just never let someone believe that buying one thing can solve all your problems because i wish it could it can't and also these people sometimes that are delivering these messages genuinely are convinced by their own messaging and that's what makes it very difficult to decipher when they are 100 convinced that what they've created or discovered or are pushing via an affiliate link or something, they genuinely believe that that might be the answer.

27:00And because they're not trained to understand nuances and they're not scientists, they're not health professionals. This is where the moral compass line comes, Ella, as to how far should influencer marketing go. It's up to companies to actually take an onus on who they align themselves with as well. And you can actually write to these companies. So for instance, I would probably as a consumer email or write a complaint about that specific ad for instance tell the companies what you're seeing if you find if you have time is this ethical is it right and hopefully they will take note exactly and hopefully we're here to help yes always send them to us and we'll help you out if you want comfort that carries you from morning to night cozy earth has got you covered from soft supportive socks for your steps through the day to breathable comforters that help you rest deeply at night.

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29:59I have answered every question from gut health and energy, cancers and heart disease to aging skin longevity and even microplastics. Built on over a decade of clinical research it gives you my fibre formula. 30 grams of fibre a day, 30 different plants a week, 30 chews and 30 minute meals plus 60 delicious minimally processed recipes to make it doable. I've done the hard work so the protein, fibre and plant points are all laid out for you. so the fiber formula is out now everyone if you head to the link in the show notes you can purchase it from any bookstore or on amazon and i'd love to hear your feedback let me know how you get on question three comes from esme who's 23 and living in falmouth cornwall beautiful she found the podcast at the beginning of the year and it makes her feel shiny all day long it's so grounding and encourages honest compassionate approach to wellness so thank you well thank you asme asme is super honest which as we were talking about again in monday is so important because we all struggle at different points in life and i think the more honest we are the more we can support each other and not feel alone in it she said i've had a rocky relationship with food for years as i think many young people especially girls have i've been bulimic but have sat at a comfortable weight for some time now much steadier i eat whole foods 80 percent of the time i'm pescatarian i exercise a lot because it gives me joy and a pep in my step long runs and long hiking and the Cornel Coastal Path and yoga and my heart rate rests at 56.

31:29I feel the fittest I've done in maybe all my life. Yay. But after recently going to the pharmacist, I had to step on the scales the first time in many years and I've learned that my BMI is technically just overweight. I am tall though, just for reference. How reliable is BMI as an indicator for health? As someone who struggled with disordered eating before, should I risk the relationship I'm building with food in order to try and lose weight to get into the healthy BMI again range? Is it different for women should we be following BMI as a good guideline? It's such a great question because BMI is very confusing, I think.

32:00Oh, hello. I mean, it's based off men for so many years, you know, and women just didn't get a look in and this sort of thing. I think BMI is quite archaic now, to be honest. Interesting. Okay. First of all, before we go into why it's okay, just give our listeners a reminder, what is BMI? And now tell us please why it's archaic. Yeah, of course. First of all, gosh, I'm so glad you trust us with your experiences and your stories and thank you for sharing because there will always be somebody that can relate and we have all ages listening to the wellness scoop we've got some you know from 14 years up to 80 years we have got a lovely range of people that will have different life experiences that can help so BMI is a very outdated blunt tool I think is a way of using it that really just identifies someone health based on the number of the scales compared to their height but you know that number on the scales doesn't tell a wider picture of muscle mass, bone density, genetics, you know, your composition, your hormone levels, your fitness levels, your BMI doesn't tell you anything.

33:03And the fact that we use this measure for so many years to define one's health is just highly concerning. And the analogy you'll hear everywhere when we discuss BMI is probably a rugby player. It's what we used to do at uni, you know, a lot of muscle mass, very tall, would be classified as overweight or even obese in some cases because of the weight on the scales, but actually they're just holding a lot of muscle. They're very cardiovascularly fit most of the time, obviously that can vary. But clinically, we look at a much broader picture now. I'm more interested in your cholesterol, your blood pressure, your blood sugar response, postprandial after a meal, your menstrual health if you're within that age or your menopause symptoms, energy levels, diet quality, where you store fat on the body should be of a GP's concern, fat distribution, physical fitness.

33:53And I think ultimately encouraging anything that's around weight. A GP should know or have, I don't know if you've actually shared it actually, but if it's on their file that you've had an eating disorder or bulimia, GPs have very little training in this area. Very, very little training. And it's actually something that's also being campaigned for alongside nutrition training, but they shouldn't be bringing up numbers on the scales. And weighing you as an outpatient is also something that I'm very confused why a GP would weigh you, having seen that and knowing your situation, unless it was an annual checkup.