IBS, Oils and the Fats We’re All Confused About

0:01REI Co-op knows when you're up at 4.30am on a Saturday for a long run and you're actually excited?

0:13not everyone gets it but we do at rei we're here for people who get outside gear up for your next run in store or at rei.com

0:31hi guys and welcome to the wellness scoop your twice weekly now a dose of health and wellness inspiration and as always we are both here as your hosts i'm ella mills and i'm rihanna lambert and we have a fantastic listener question episode coming up so thank you for all of your questions let's go reminder any questions queries things you want us to discuss or recommendations you have for the community send them to us hello at wellness hyphen scoop.com we love getting your messages. Rhi before we get into it have you got any brilliant burning recommendations for us this morning? Bridgerton. Oh my gosh I so want to watch it.

1:14It's back. At first I was slightly disappointed I was like oh this is just a copy on I almost don't want to say it to give it away to anyone that's listened but then I got into it it's a slow burner and then on like episode two I am invested again and I don't know if this is disturbing but Tell Me Lies this program on Disney about relationships with in America with kids, well, teenagers at their kind of unis. But a guy that's got a very warped, terrifying, sadistic kind of outlook, like toxic relationships. It's very addictive. Don't ask me why. And I saw The Housemaid at cinema. Oh, gosh. OK.

1:56So there you go. So tell me lies fiction or not. Or a documentary. That's fiction. Tell me lies. And then obviously Housemaid is on the book that I've given you today. Reeds bought the Housemaid for me today, which I'm so excited about. Don't expect like wonderful. Literary. Yes, but it's an easy, good, gripping read. I feel like I'm going to absolutely race through it. Yeah, I think you will. Okay, I need to watch Tell Me Life. Okay, what about you, Emma? We just finished The Night Manager. Isn't it amazing? I need another episode or it'll be out now because it's Monday. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:26It's out. I've done the whole thing. Oh my God, it is so good. and they are doing it on season three in case anyone missed that they've confirmed it those were actually my recommendations I shared accidentally my other recommendation on Monday which is The Wedding People such a great book but I wax lyrical about it on Monday so I will just if you haven't listened really recommend The Wedding People book. So good so I did something really interesting well I think it's interesting you might you might disagree everybody but I made So many things were happening on my commute today. And it made me think how much we're exposed to subliminally that can affect our mood for the day ahead.

3:07And I'm obviously a very sensitive soul, but I'm sure many people witness things like this and it can really shape your day. So it started. So you've got a note for us of all the things that you had to override this morning. I love that because it's so true. It's so easy to be like derailed and kind of blown with the wind. Normally we ignore it because we're so used to seeing things that I'm about to read out. happen every day we become desensitized to it but I'm sure it must have an impact physiologically on us that we don't acknowledge or recognize okay so for once I wrote it down tell us well it started off on the back foot anyway because my eldest was up in the night but that aside I'm used to that so we crack on so that's fine then I was like walking down the road to the train station and there was a little dead squirrel by the side of the road I didn't have a carrier bag on me to pick it up and move it and then I felt an absolute emotional like distress because I was like this poor thing I can't leave it there but to the roads I was like trying to rush for my train get leaves off a bush and try and move this dead squirrel obviously that's heartbreaking for me then I get to the platform and one of those really fast trains go past you know that's quite oh yeah those always make you feel quite wrestled I think oh my goodness I always turn the other way and try and think of anything else and then when I got on the train someone was having a really bad domestic essentially like everybody in the carriage could hear it on the phone and normally I just ignore that but I couldn't help myself but listen isn't that awful that but because there was no other noise on the train no one was talking it was just this one person I doubt you were the only person listening I know but how not normal is that to begin with and then there was someone having coughing fit and I mean like me thinking I'm gonna catch this oh my gosh I mustn't breathe she just coughed hold my breath does anybody do that because I don't want to breathe in those germs then it started raining when I was walking in and it didn't say rain on my weather app this morning so I had no umbrella and I was thinking what is going on today then I get onto the platform and I got pushed and missed the first tube by a guy rushed pushed me aside I seem to be pushed a lot now on public transport and I'm not enjoying it and then when I get off the tube to Oxford Circus, there's a pile of vomit by the entrance coming out on the floor.

5:19Then I saw a homeless person, felt bad and gave my only snack for the day, my banana in my bag to the homeless person. That was gone. And that also made me feel sad. And then the minute I stepped out the steps from the tube, I kind of took a breath because, you know, it's so hot down there. And I inhaled someone's cigarette smoke. And I felt sick already. And I'm walking down the road. And there's another lorry that's hooting at another car. And I kind of just took a step back and I thought, wow, this is normal. Like that's my norm. And I'm sure it's everyone's norm that commutes into London or a busy city or a work job.

5:54And it made me really respect and appreciate those days where I get up, where either I'm not commuting in or it's the weekend and the morning is just, I'm in control. I was not in control over any of those external factors happening to me. And so many of us have have no power over them. I just thought it was an interesting way of framing that we are so used to bad things. It's interesting as well on our episode on Monday, I don't know if you guys have listened yet, but we talked a lot about how the world we live in is very overstimulating. It's very, very busy. It's a huge amount for our brains to absorb in any given second and actually trying to just like reclaim bits of it so trying to zone out where you can read something listen to something have a kind of a mindful moment for want of a better expression and I think it shows how important it is because actually anyone kind of existing in the busy world that we all live in it is a lot you are really overstimulated sort of just a fact and so actually trying to carve out pockets of calm does wonders for your mental well-being that's exactly it and I was thinking this is just an average day i mean not everybody would stop for the squirrel i appreciate that's probably just me being a good person being overly sensitive but that that's um my own issues to deal with but i think we are all just so desensitized to the environments around us and like alice said we have to preserve ourselves we have to preserve our own mental health because it's the only way to cope is to find those pockets 100 put on the wellness scoop in your ears if someone's having a domestic on the track yeah and just do the little things do you know on little things where you'll be so proud of me this is one of my like because you know everyone knows i love like little habits and how much they add up and what a difference they make to your health one of my worst habits other than doom scrolling which is you know i'm very much addressing is not drinking any water yes you've always described yourself as the camel camel yeah i'd get to like 4 p.m like i literally haven't had any water and like the number of times reese looked to me it's like absolute horror where oh i'm on my third coffee and i haven't had any water reed this is my fourth It's water and I've only had one coffee.

8:02I even said to Ella, I was like, you look great this morning. I feel ranked. So that's actually so nice of you to say that. It's the water. In fact, you've had that cup in front of you and I'd assumed it was coffee all morning. Not that I'm judging. It started off as coffee on the train and now it's had two hot waters and I had two waters before I left the house and a smoothie. Don't you just feel so much better for it? So I really honestly feel it's these little things that we can cling on to. And we've also got feedback from Lottie, Ella, as well. Yes. And she has said, I've just listened to this Monday's episode where you talk about classing obsession with longevity as becoming disordered.

8:37Yeah. So just a reminder on that two Mondays ago, we had a conversation. It was in our trend section looking at this obsession with longevity and clinics now treating people who had that obsession has become kind of paralyzing, overwhelming and actually feeling a little bit like orthorexia, for example, where good habits become compulsive and as a result become detrimental. at all. Exactly. And she said, I absolutely agree that it can. But my question is, at what point is avoiding things we know are detrimental to our health considered disordered? She said, I was thinking on it as I listened to the episode and thought of it in comparison to going teetotal and avoiding alcohol or avoiding processed meat for health reasons.

9:20Alcohol and processed meats are things that we absolutely know are detrimental to our health or even carcinogens like smoke, inhalation, fumes, inactive lifestyles. But at what point is avoiding these proven unhealthy things obsessive or disordered? She said, I didn't come to a good conclusion. So would love to hear both of your thoughts. It's such a nice question. Yeah, and very thought provoking. Yes, I actually thought a lot about this after I read it. Rhi, I wonder if we can start by framing actually, if you could give us a definition of what disordered patterns in this instance are classified by technically?

9:58Yeah, essentially like a brief overview is it's how it impacts your life. So the definition to be exact is avoiding foods or behaviours that are known to be harmful to health is not inherently disordered. It just becomes disordered when the behaviour, this is key here, the behaviour is driven by fear, rigidity or anxiety rather than flexibility. So it's the proportion overall wellbeing. And when it becomes, you know, negative and it affects mental health, social life or physical health for Ella. That's ultimately the loss of flexibility. You wouldn't go out with your friends for dinner. You wouldn't go somewhere, do something for you because you're worried about this other external factor.

10:37Yeah, I think that flexibility point is, to me, that's the core of it, isn't it? Because, and I mentioned this on Monday, I had this kind of weird moment where I had, I emailed my daughter's school and said, you know, I don't particularly want her having ham on a regular basis obviously as we know it's a class one carcinogen to me it's about that balance like she loves sweeties and you know all things that six-year-olds do and so I just feel like I don't think she particularly needs that in excess in her life but how weird it is to have to do that because really it's not something that you would think has served in abundance to children but obviously it is so it is this interesting world where we know some of these things are really really bad for us and therefore avoiding them seems strange to other people and I think that's what others think about we worry about what others think about us all the time 100 % and I think that's the bit that's interesting to me but I think the flexibility bit is absolutely key because there may be some things you decide actually do you know what I don't particularly like processed meat it's not very good for me I don't think I'm really going to eat it but assuming you're not a vegetarian then you go to someone's house they've got a bit of bacon in something and you say I can't eat that whole meal because of it yeah that's to me that's the tipping point essentially same that's such a good analogy yeah it's being able to actually every now and again enjoy yourself and obviously if you're a vegetarian that's just completely different but say you're not a vegetarian and yeah they've made a carbonara and you've got a little bit of bacon on it and then you're like oh I can't eat any of that because I never eat processed meats I think for me that would be the probably the tipping point of like that's not flexible to some extent this is just me being dealt but maybe that's weird but maybe it's going to be the norm in 10 years that we do say things like that yeah because we know more but now we still don't most people would think yeah you and i are crazy right yeah and you know is it also weird that you're bending your personal kind of thoughts and looking after yourself in order to fit in that's i think the flip side of it but i think it is that rigidity or say you know we know certain ingredients are healthier than others but like maybe it's about you know going to a restaurant and not minding what things have been cooked in or you know how much sugar is in the pudding or whatever else just really enjoying it as opposed to being like oh i wonder if this is you know made with beef tallow and it's not as good for me because it's too much saturated fat again assuming that's not vegetarian.

13:07Well, that's just it. There's a really fine line of balance between disordered eating or, you know, psychological illness, because essentially an eating disorder is a psychological illness. We have a diagnostic manual for that. But these sorts of things, you know, it's not disordered to care about your health. That's not disordered. It only becomes it when the pursuit of doing everything right removes, like Ella just said, joy, connection, peace of mind. And it takes up much more airtime than it's meant to. Because I think the other thing is otherwise you go to a restaurant you sit down you look at the menu and you're like oh I'll have that but I think if you find yourself worrying about it ahead of time and I'm not talking about it if you have an allergy or something like that's completely different but from a just pure what ingredients used health perspective and retrospective panic so you know you've done something and then you get home and you're full of regret and you're full of feelings of shame and yeah that's probably where the challenge sits and I think it's such a good question I think it is important to say that like all of these studies and things for example the bowel cancer ones and that we were looking at on monday i don't think there's ever something that certainly i've come across i don't know what you feel re that's saying one piece of bacon will do the damage it really isn't that it's much more a kind of collectious exactly it's lifestyle decisions that accumulate over years that people are studying i mean like that you know one of those studies looking at 30 years of alcohol intake it's not about the occasional drink it's not about the you know enjoying yourself on a night out with friends I think it is about the balance and certainly from where I sit the more I read the more I learn that's the bit that I feel so passionate about is trying to readdress the balance it's not about demonizing the haribo or a mars bar it's about demonizing actually the kind of collective food system and balance that we have and how it needs to be flipped on its head and we're at the cultural shift everybody so we completely understand you know we're living through a time you know we've already had cigarettes established alcohol most people know it isn't good for you but i think with these other changes we're discussing you know toxic chemicals in the house perhaps you know limiting those the pans you cook with you know the red and processed meat all these changes they may have been listed for a long time but they've never been openly discussed in this way before so i think it's really new to navigate it's hard anyway if you guys have any thoughts on it please let us know we would be very interested to hear from you i'd love to hear your thoughts because we've got one more follow-up question on that ella from um marimar on spotify she said question for thursday we're here for it regarding flax and chia um wonderful benefits um for fiber yes but just wondering if the amiga content gets affected when you use them in something you cook with so is it heat versus something like flax water or cheer pudding which keeps them cold thanks yeah great question actually i think we've had quite a few questions about whether things change when they heat what's the general consensus here really such a good question but i do think we're probably overthinking things sometimes this is what tends to happen because yes they're brilliant for fiber and they are also full of those healthy fats flax seed and cheer seeds so that alla and plant foods and that convert to the DHA EPA you need in the body but at a slower pace so in plant-based omega-3s you always need to have more of them so please don't panic about how much you're putting in or when you're heating it or when you're not because you need to be getting that in but yes technically they are sensitive to heat so a little bit of omega-3 can be reduced with high or prolonged cooking so especially if you're frying under roasting but I wouldn't say people typically fry and roast chia seeds would you ella i'm just imagining i'm just wondering just in chia seeds no i guess the only thing with like flax seeds for example is in baking i make flaxseed wraps sometimes yeah all people use them they're really helpful binder for example in baking so things like banana bread muffins etc i feel like i see that a lot certainly do that myself sometimes but you know the fiber isn't damaged and you know so you are still getting some omega-3s everybody It's just not the maximum.

17:07It's more about the quantity you use and the diversity of foods over time. So perhaps alongside your baking and the goods you always make when you heat them, just try and introduce them in cold ways. Like Ella's cheer pudding she sometimes brings her to work when we're here in the studio. Got one in my bag today, Rui. Have you? There you go. See, I knew it. She'd have one in there. You know, overnight oats are fantastic because it does preserve more omega-3s. So, yeah, I would just encourage adding more cold versions of it alongside your favourites. Yeah, I love that. I have to say, I'm sure like many, many, many people find mornings, you know, there's a lot to do in a short space of time.

17:47And I actually have been getting really into smoothies and just find it so helpful on a busy morning. Because it got lighter again. I do notice it when it's lighter, I feel I can eat better. Yeah, I totally agree. And it was also with one of my daughters has had an extraordinary number of she had some real challenges to her immune system. And she's had probably coming up to 20 doses of antibiotics in her life, you know, huge number. So I'm really, really conscious of her gut health and actually have got her, she doesn't know it, drinking kefir in the smoothie. But I actually was amazing how helpful things like that can be.

18:21If you've got lots going on. I do those at pick up smoothies. Exactly. So as part of breakfast, it's a smoothie. I do kefir for the probiotics and then I've got flaxseed in there sometimes or hemp seed or chia seeds do nut butters frozen berries banana some oats and it's unbelievable and I actually did sorry chat GPT and I get she gets half her fiber half her protein half her calcium for her age range and it's unbelievable anyway not doesn't have to be exactly that but things with like chia seeds flax seeds trying to get more of them in recipes like that can be so helpful if you've got lots going on in five minutes you can give yourself literally half of a day's dose of fiber for example and that's when i think like i've had a nutri bullet for mine's very old probably 10 years old but that's what i use for smoothies they're really good because i don't want to wash a bigger blender no so like if you've got but you can use handheld blenders for smoothies can't you yeah you can do you can make them in any way the other thing i do with chia seeds each week which is really great my husband who famously does not cook loves food he um really likes a granola bowl in the morning so I will do each week a really big batch of mixed berries so I just buy like bags of mixed frozen berries I heat them um so it makes a compote and then right at the end I'll stir in a few tablespoons of chia seeds thickens it up which is actually a really nice texture such a nice easy other way to get cheer seeds in.

19:50Everyone, do you want to know something fun? Ella, years ago, we recorded a kind of what, we were in some kitchen, you made pancakes. Oh my gosh, I remember that. You made it there. Yes. There's me and Ella in the kitchen together in like 2017 or something. Some cheer seed pancakes. And we made the cheer seed with pancakes. Yeah. The berry compote. Yeah, that is so good, that compote. Anyway, really recommend that. You literally can buy mixed bags of frozen berries at every supermarket. You literally just heat them through for like 10 minutes till it goes into a compote and then you can add in a little bit of sweetener honey maple syrup or something you were doing it before kids we were doing that before kids yeah it's so good last all week pop it on porridge granola etc again from a plant point perspective such an easy win

20:37when you want your spring break to feel like and your kids pool day to feel like and your hotel bed to feel like and room service to feel like because at Hilton, hospitality feels like Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels? It matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton for this day. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs.

21:26So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a$75 Sponsored Job Credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. You all know me. I'm about adding more in, not cutting things out. no fads, no diets, just evidence and transparency. And right now in the UK, everyone, 96 % of us, that's 96 % are not getting enough fiber. It's one of the lowest figures in the world. And I couldn't ignore it. So we've spent years obsessing over protein and other trends. And I'm delighted to share that after a year in the making, my new book, The Fiber Formula, is available to pre-order. I have answered every question from gut health and energy, cancers and heart disease to aging skin longevity and even microplastics.

22:16Built on over a decade of clinical research, it gives you my fiber formula. 30 grams of fiber a day, 30 different plants a week, 30 chews and 30 minute meals plus 60 delicious minimally processed recipes to make it doable. I've done the hard work so the protein, fibre and plant points are all laid out for you. I'm a small fish in a very big murky pond of wellness books and so your pre-orders really do matter and they help my message reach more people. If you head to the link in the show notes or any bookstore or on Amazon where you can get 15 % off and a lowest price pre-order guarantee. Emma says I recently heard that those following plant-based diets could be low in iodine as it's something that's mainly found in animal products it's not something that I've heard a lot about or considered before but as someone who follows a predominantly plant-based diet it got my attention have you got any advice or recommendations on how you ensure that you're getting enough iodine on a mainly plant-based diet are there any particular foods that could help or would you recommend using a supplement I know supplements are sometimes needed to bridge nutritional gaps but I don't like to use them unnecessarily and also keen to ensure that any supplements I do take are of good quality I don't eat meat but have small amounts of fish dairy and eggs but I prefer to keep them at minimum for environmental reasons and also because I'm hearing a lot about ethical issues in these industries that concern me yeah I mean what is iodine give us the overview because I feel he's quite a low-key nutrient I feel like iron is famous calcium is famous zinc is getting more famous because of the immune system element vitamin c we all know about but iodine maybe an unsung hero such an unsung hero um i wonder if anyone's ever described iodine i know but you know see how my face lights up like oh i'm discussing iodine i can't remember i've said this before but i once judged the apprentice final with alan sugar like back in like i told you she was so low-key i said this on monday when she's like i'm going to parliament to give a speech and she'll be on tv she'll do this she's like i judged the apprentice alan sugar she's so low key but we did discuss iodine this was years ago before it was before lockdown um camilla was releasing this plant drink and i was like we need to fortify of iodine and then like the year later that's when iodine fortification started to come in i remember when brands went alpro mns all sorts of people were then putting it in plant-based drinks as fortification so it's important for cognition our brain health and our thyroid it plays a really big role there but also hormone production, metabolism, energy levels, mood.

24:46And actually, UK data suggests that iodine intake is already kind of borderline in many adults, even before we discuss plant-based eaters. And you only really find it in fish and dairy, to be honest. That's why. And in the olden days, Ella, where our soil was richer and we got a lot more nutrition from our food, perhaps it wasn't as key a concern. But in today's world, it most definitely is. That's so interesting. So seaweed is a big source of iodine isn't it but it's very unreliable as far as i understand it can either be absolute mega doses or teeny doses yeah you don't want to overdo it as well because you can actually cause damage to your thyroid if you overdo your iodine levels so it's one of those things where like we've discussed with vitamin d before ella you don't want to be overdosing unless you've been diagnosed as deficient you want to stick with the recommended amount and interestingly not all packs labelled as seaweed are seaweed.

25:40You know, when you buy the kind of dried seaweed things. Yes. I really like those. I love those. I could snack on those all day long. My younger daughter is obsessed with them. Oh, I bought the miso soup as well. I've got some. I've been having it at night. Yeah, I love it. It's so good. But they do seaweed too. Yes, I recommended that the other day. The clear spring miso soup pouches. They are so great. So good. But what I wanted to clarify is, even though that is confusing in itself, to add more confusion, is that things labelled seaweed cabbage are still seaweed. It's just that people like to nickname them seaweed cabbage because it looks more like cabbage.

26:14I mean, a way to confuse consumers. So it's not cabbage, it is still seaweed. It's still seaweed in some of them. Like, how is anyone meant to know? It's very confusing. So the best sources of iodine for everybody are plant milks when they're fortified. But you want to be looking for around 22 to 30 micrograms of iodine per 100 ml. And that's basically like a couple of glasses a day, like two or three. So if you love a latte, Yeah. You're getting plant-based fortified. If you're getting it from baristas and coffee houses, you can't guarantee it's fortified, actually. You don't know which type of milk they're using.

26:46Iodized salt, obviously, I would not recommend as something that people look for because we're already well over the six grams a day. We're at eight in this country. 155 bags of crisps. Ella, remember that. I mean, can you believe it? So I would not recommend using salt as a reliable source of iodine. But why not just use that salt at home when you use salt instead of other types? Seaweed, like Ella said, you really don't want to overdo it. And actually, a lot of green powders have added kelp and, you know, items with iodine within them. And that's another reason why I've always thought green powders are risky.

27:22They put so much in. There's no guidance. And then whole plant foods, you know, even some legumes have a little bit, but just not enough. And that's why I think for vegans and people that are predominantly plant based with low intakes of dairy and fish is difficult. I mean, I did put it at Retrition Plus. I'm going to bring that back this year, but I made a supplement brand. Yeah, I'm going to do it in September, I think. Oh, my gosh. I know. So congratulations. I didn't know that. Thanks, Ella. We need to go through it properly. I need your advice, actually, on quite a lot of things. The current climate for launching anything is not great.

27:56But you had a vegan supplement that basically, obviously, with all your knowledge, was targeting the gaps that you see. And tell us exactly what you had in there. It was just iodine, just selenium, just iron and B12. Because those are the key nutrients that are really tricky. I didn't want to overload it. But the biggest mistake I had with the business at the time was, first of all, I couldn't manage it manpower wise for me. but also the cost of high quality ingredients. I just didn't want to compromise on low quality. And that's my biggest downfall because to manufacture anything that's that high quality, that's ethical, it was British algae.

28:37I was using British algae and I wasn't importing on the internet from somewhere in Europe. Anyway, I can go down that alleyway another time. But Ella, it's - So maybe worth trying to get a test, see where your levels are, potentially look at a supplement. Yeah, 100%. please go and get yourself checked out. You know, any GP can do that for you for free and take your levels. Love that. Okay, we now have a question from Julia who said, first of all, thank you so much for filling my otherwise gloomy work commutes with such positivity. Love that. I have a question regarding IBS as I've been suffering with it for about 10 years now.

29:13Is there a way out? I'm struggling to find long-term solutions and a sustainable diet as my symptoms keep flaring up. Oh gosh, I mean, it's rough because you're also living in a climate where we're saying, eat more fibre, eat more fibre. But if you've got an underlying condition or IBS, it's not always that straightforward. So we've had her on before, Catherine Rebess, who's an amazing gut health dietitian in my clinic, the Retrition Clinic. She's also the author of the 30 Plan. I've got a lovely voice note from her. Unfortunately, IBS doesn't have a cure. And although there are some diets that can help, such as the low FODMAP diet, with relieving and easing symptoms and helping with overall long-term symptom management, there's still always going to be situations where symptoms can flare up.

30:01My suggestion would be to start thinking about other options instead of just diet alone. Stress plays a huge factor with IBS as well as anxiety and depression, low mood. So it might be about looking more into lifestyle factors as well, such as managing stress, but also thinking about sleep patterns and movement and doing things like yoga and mindfulness and breath work. If you have already done a food and symptom diary and have been able to identify dietary triggers, it could be that there's other factors alongside that playing a part, such as how much food you're eating, skipping of meals, eating too quickly and rushing your food.

30:54All of these factors can influence the symptoms when it comes to IBS. but really important if they are still a real big problem to go back to your doctor and have them looked at because there are some other conditions that can have symptoms that very much overlap with IBS too and should be ruled out fantastic that was so helpful thank you so much we so so appreciate it fab okay so we are on to a question from Megan really good question I would She said, I love the pod. So thanks, Megan. I only discovered it a few months ago. It's really helped me disconnect from my phone more. Wow, we are on a wavelength.

31:35I can't believe it. Mark Zuckerberg does not like us. Okay. We're going to be penalized now in the podcast. I know. Okay. No, keep listening, guys. Right. Megan listens to it when I'm on a walk instead of looking down at my phone and having you both motivate me to use it more mindfully has been great. Now I have a question about coconut oil. I've been taking part in Veganuary and sampling a few vegan cheeses when a family friend told me I needed to cut them out or cut down and then because the amount of coconut oil and how much that can raise our cholesterol i eat mostly plant-based diet and i'm lactose intolerant so i try to avoid cheese hence the vegan cheese but i also cook with coconut oil because the jar seems to last forever but this family friend said even cooking with it every day can be really bad for you i can't believe my lovely harmless coconut oil can be so bad for me i know everything's okay in moderation so what is a moderate level to consume when it comes to coconut oil and is it safe to cook with it on a pretty much daily basis do you have any recommendations of coconut oil, free vegan cheeses and how often they should be consumed?

32:32Okay. They are right, actually, your friends with coconut oil because it's extremely high in saturated fat. And basically any item of food that's solid at room temperature, like an oil, contains more saturated fat. You know, olive oil you'll see can sit at room temperature and be liquid because it doesn't really contain much saturated fat, which was what I don't want to call it. Well, it is. It's not great for us. We call it the bad fat, although little bits is totally fine, everybody. But it's more likely to raise your LDL. Little bits of saturated fat, you're saying? Yes. Because we don't want to label it bad fat, but it's kind of what people talk about as the bad fat.

33:09Because what is wrong with having too much saturated fat? Because then it raises the bad cholesterol, which is what we refer to it in layman's terms. It's the LDL cholesterol. So butter's solid at room temperature. Coconut oil's solid at room temperature. Cheese is solid at room temperature. These things that contain a lot of saturated fat. But not all of them are the same. And what's interesting is coconut oil, guys, it is 80 to 90 % saturated fat. You know, ghee, palm oil, all sorts of things all raise the bad cholesterol. And we've got loads. I mean, we have got so many randomized control trials.

33:41So much research there. Which leads us on to the oil debate a little bit. Because if you replace coconut oil with, oh gosh, everyone's going to go, rapeseed oil. or you know olive oil um obviously there's a hierarchy of oils you probably want to go cold pressed etc but those generally have been shown in clinical research masses of research to lower ldl cholesterol and reduce your risk of heart disease ella so i i do feel strongly coconut oil should be used in minimal amounts across the week for most people and i would say in that sense use it when the flavor profile because there's to a point three saturated fat in occasion like if you love butter you've made a lovely sourdough you've got some nice bread you have some butter on it lovely like don't stress but you don't want to be having huge amounts of these fats all day every day and also if you're then having lots of red meat it's a lot of saturated fat and generally we consume a little bit too much saturated fat but you're right about like desserts sometimes i definitely cook a coconut oil in some desserts because sometimes the flavor profile is absolutely fantastic same like you can sometimes like there's some curries that i make for example as well we're actually frying up like cumin seeds and mustard seeds and things like that in the coconut oil enhances there's a really nice flavor profile there but you just don't probably want to be cooking with it all day every day as you said but then the thing is i can only imagine people listening being like wait a second i'm so confused because i go online and i see people walking down the street eating a stick of butter did i send you that video stuff where people are eating as i said They buy a lump of it from the shop at the train station.

35:17I saw someone doing that recently. I'm not saying you can't have some butter on your toast in the morning. But what we're saying is you don't want to over consume saturated fat because it's not good for your cholesterol levels. So why you'd eat just a stick of butter as a snack. And I mean literally just a butter on its own. It all becomes so confusing. How do people know who to listen to? There was that I Quit Sugar book. Do you remember it? I'm not scared to name it because in it, it caused a lot of disordered eating. we would have clients in the nutrition clinic come in and say whenever I'm hungry because this is what the lady in the book told me to do I eat a tablespoon of coconut oil and that's what we used to get a lot of it and that was back in 2016 yeah I think I know exactly what you mean anyway it was huge that book huge many um things positive and negative can be taken from that I think but let's talk about cheese because as Ella knows many cheeses are made of this although you can and get some nut ones you can i have to say i'm afraid mate really i'm hoping you've got she's shaking her head i was about to be i hope you have a good answer i've never found a nice one i've come across some small batch kind of super expensive items in planet organic type shops where they're nut based and they're really delicious i have never found a supermarket plant-based cheese that's any good personally i don't think they're very delicious and generally the ingredients aren't great i'm i agree with you on hard cheeses i think for some spreads yeah i found a few good like cheese spread alternatives any brand food i'm just wondering what it's called is it nush and also i don't particularly love calling out big brands like this but i know cathedral city do a grated vegan cheese which a lot of my clients use um because it melts okay but you engineered to melt you know catch my drift um so vegan cheeses we've got a long place to go what i would say is i love using nutritional yeast and in the next book the fiber formula book i've got the most insane cheesy popcorn using nutritional you're full of all the good recommendations at the launch ella because ella's going to interview me at my book launch um very everyone's going to get some popcorn oh i know anyway yes that's our answer i'd say just remember that you don't want more than 10 % of your daily intake of energy of food from saturated fat.

37:31And for women, actually, it's less than men. We're 20 grams, men are 30 grams of saturated fat a day. I still think that's too high. Very, very helpful. So yeah, enjoy butter on your toast or on your crumpet or the moment you enjoy it, but maybe just then cook with other plant-based oils, for example. Yeah, 100%. And same, sorry, it goes with coconut oil. Enjoy it where you can really get the flavour profile the rest of the time. I would not. Okay, our final question of the day links to that very nicely. It comes from Libby who said, thanks for another lovely podcast. I'd really love to know the difference between cold pressed rapeseed oil and olive oil.

38:04I've heard both are really healthy, but which one should I use? Do you have a preference? And you just mentioned cold pressed rapeseed oil a minute ago. Hierarchy of oils, Ella. Do you want to go into it? Because I feel like you understand more than anybody that, you know, manufacturing oils, where the olives come from, you know, they can be picked from different regions and then plonked together it's crazy i mean same with anything really when it comes to food manufacturing there is a huge continuum a big hierarchy scale whatever you want to call it in terms of quality and obviously cost comes into that massively you know cold pressed organic extra virgin olive oil is incredibly expensive and so yes it can be super delicious doesn't need to be all of those things but like really good quality olive oil is absolutely delicious but ultimately as we all know probably it's incredibly expensive so i think that you can have different oils you use for different things like when you're then doing your salad dressing and you really taste it completely different than when you're roasting you're like honey when we discussed honey before we saved the manuka honey exactly the same or your lovely farm shop honey as you know putting on your toast is something absolutely delicious.

39:17I was eating pitas with honey this weekend. It was so good. And I think olive oil is the same. Whereas actually when it comes to stir frying or roasting your veg, you don't necessarily need to be using that more expensive olive oil, but people become scared of using your rapeseed oils. Was it this episode that we were just talking about earlier, omega-3s and heating them? Yeah. So think of oils in a weird way as similar. So any nuts and seeds and healthy fats and Amiga's light, cool room temperature environments. I think that's such an easy way of just looking at it. And therefore, they stay stable when like oils, the more expensive ones are expensive because they're in a dark glass bottle, which preserves them from destabilizing and exposure to oxygen and, you know, all sorts of things, stops it going rancid, losing the amazing healthy properties of the oil, because actually you are being lied to if you are buying a plastic bottle of olive oil that has been sat there exposed to all sorts of heat and light and being told this has the same nutritional value as the expensive dark one it's like one of the few food areas where i think it's worth if you're able to saving for the dark glass bottle and using it sparingly alongside the plastic bottle like ella just said in different types of cooking does that makes sense yeah i feel like the science is there we have to say let's exactly there is now talk to us about the cold pressed rapeseed oil versus normal rapeseed oil yeah it just means the oil has been extracted at lower temperatures like i said you know you've got to really think like now we know walnut should be kept in the fridge flaxseed should be kept airtight in the fridge to preserve the flavor and those antioxidants the vitamin e because when it's not cold pressed it's often exposed to heat and different chemical processes are used to make sure you get more from it and I know you know more than anything about tricks of the food industry and what they can do but it does compromise the nutritional value Ella and I think it's really important just to say there is a difference between the olive oils but you know the price tag prices people out and that's what I hate about this food industry is that the foods that are better for us are often completely priced out for so many people and that is not fair.