Mood-Boosting Diets, Brain Gains and the UPF Debate

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1:03Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we're here as your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, it can be pretty overwhelming and confusing. And that's why we've created this podcast to cut through that noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal.

1:27We have got a very brilliant episode for you guys just as a FYI, advance warning coming on Thursday for our Q &As. Now, we have loved having all your questions, queries, comments over the last few months. We are really enjoying those weekly Q &A sessions. What we started to notice though is that there were like some topics that we had a huge number of questions on that just seemed to be of particular interest to large cohorts of you. And so what we thought we would do is actually every now and again, when we're noticing that pattern is we'll bring in an absolute expert guest on one of these particular topics and do all of your questions focused on that and And on Thursday, we are doing it on GLP-1.

2:06So on the weight loss drugs, on the Asenpix, Majaros, Wegevies. So we're doing a deep dive into all things GLP-1 weight loss drugs with an amazing expert on Thursday. I can't wait. Me too. I think it's going to be so informative, Ella. And I think with such a lot of noise at the moment in the industry, it's going to be, gosh, hopefully full of actionable advice for our listeners. So it's a really big foodie week this week, guys. we've had some pretty big studies coming out that we're going to start preparing to explain to you all. Exactly. What's the big one that you've got for us this week, Ru?

2:40So the Eat Lancet Commission unveiled a new scientific evaluation called Healthy, Sustainable and Just Food Systems. And this was tied to a conference over in Stockholm. And basically, the last Eat Lancet report came out in 2019. And it gave us what's called the planetary plate. So how to eat to save the planet essentially. How to eat to save the planet and yourself. So what's the healthiest diet you can follow for both humans and the planet, which I think was so powerful to show, okay, this is what's in your best interest, but it's also in the best interest, obviously, of everybody else in the world around us.

3:16It makes such a difference. I actually referenced the original Lancet report so much in the science of plant-based nutrition. And now we've got new stats. It could save around 40 ,000 deaths a day. It's a huge, it's a staggering number. but my friend and colleague a registered dietitian rosie martin was there so in next week's episode i'm going to ask her to compile a voice note of her experience from stockholm and then we could discuss it more amazing i can't wait and that original one that you're talking about the um the planetary plate i think what was so interesting there and it's something i know we both feel really passionately about but it gave this really plant rich plant first plant forward approach that I just think is so relevant.

3:55You know, I'm really not a believer necessarily in people feeling they have to put a label on things. It's really that dogmatic approach is just not something that's viable for most people. And I think what they were putting forward was, yeah, this much more approachable plant-rich, plant-first, put veg, put beans, put whole grains at the centre of your plate. And it's very effective. Yeah. It says things like just have meat three times a week if you're an omnivore and it's just a much more approachable method. But it leads us on, I think, to what's coming up in today's show, Ella, which is a lot of food noise.

4:29A lot of food noise. Okay, so coming up in today's show, we have got the surprising link between fibre, mood and mental clarity, how short, powerful workouts can sharpen your brain, the truth behind England's new junk food ban and what that means for you, inside Joe Wicks' new UPF documentary and why it's sparking such a big debate particularly online and simple ways to protect your focus lift your mood and feel your best which let's be honest we all need all the time no we absolutely do so what a week we've got guys so ella first of all what have you been up to this week i saw some gorgeous apple juice jars and i was very jealous i am just loving it i've planted my first things in the garden what did you go for okay so you people listening are probably like avid gardeners and and know so much and I don't know anything.

5:14When it comes to gardening, I really, really don't. So I'm going on a gardening course next week with my mum. Please come over my house and help me because my plants die and I try really hard. We're doing a vegetable growing course together next week, the day after this comes out. So I'm so excited for that. So I'll report back. But we planted daffodils ready for the spring, which was really fun. I did it with the girls. And then the children were gifted. I know we normally do our recommendations on a Thursday, so I'm sneaking in here. but they were gifted this subscription called mud and bloom and it's a monthly subscription and they send you their old nanny sent it to them when we moved it wasn't from the company it's the most amazing thing and it's this box and it's loads of seeds to plant and you can plant them on your windowsill you don't need a veg patch or anything but it gives you both options basically of different plants so flowers but also vegetables and things to plant so we had in that some tulips ahead of next year and some spinach which in three or four weeks hopefully we'll see some sign of I think the tulips got like a drowning when May watered them so I don't hold out a huge amount of hope and then some potatoes which I think is like the last bit of the season anyway garlic red onions so let's see if I get anything yeah I think you will and what's so interesting about things like daffodils I can't believe we're actually talking about flowers in the podcast I love it you just never know where it's going to go but um every year I don't do anything mine just come out every single year around the same time in exactly the same pattern that I planted them and I don't do anything to maintain them.

6:42So once they're kind of in, they're in. Okay, that's good to know. So everyone's fingers crossed for me, they're in the spring. I'll let you know if you see any daffodils or not. Yeah, a hundred percent. I think it's wonderful. Yeah, do share your tips because like I said, I have houseplants and then sometimes I think I over water them or do I underwater them? There's all sorts of things that I just don't really know what I'm doing. But what I do know is that I feel much more relaxed when I'm around nature. So it's a really good idea to you can also get those indoor growing kits now so if anyone doesn't have a garden or they've just got a balcony you can buy those pots can't you that you grow indoor and you can do your own little herb gardens yeah they're amazing love it re what's your response being like to the fiber formula we'll see you announce it last week big moment it's just crazy what's really interesting doing a fiber book is i still think it needs way more traction and people are still on their protein hype, which we will discuss.

7:36And guys, we're not saying protein isn't important. I know it's so important. Requirements do go up a bit as we age, all those factors, but none of us are deficient in it yet. We are in fiber. So what I'm hoping with the fiber formula, and thank you to everybody who's pre-ordered, it means so much. And if we can get more pre-orders, I think it would show people that actually it's a subject the public really want to know more about because it is a bit of a health crisis, actually, a nutrition crisis in this country and something that I think we'll all be speaking a lot more about, hopefully, in the new year, Ella.

8:08But a big thank you to everyone. And it also moves us on nicely, I think, today to the health headlines that matter. Okay, so our first headline this morning is a sort of, I know, as I said, recommendations normally for Thursday, but this is a longer one and it was from The Guardian. but it was just such a good read it wasn't a headline as such but more of a dive into a new book the headline ran we're exhausted but not from doing too much piqued my attention great clickbait and it was basically this really powerful piece and I think we all struggle with so much of what she talked about in there and I know our audience is very much female heavy and I think there's there is a kind of an emphasis on so many women feeling this kind of not full burnout, but just this constant kind of exhaustion from doing too much and too many different facets of life at once.

8:59And what she was talking about was basically attention and distraction about how so many of us are living in this constant state of mental overload. So the author was called Dr. Zalana Montemany. And she said, essentially, and I think this point is so relevant, our most valuable resource isn't time, it's attention. And if you could take back control of your attention, where your mind is and where you place your mind, so much would change. You just talked a lot about this crisis of distraction where we're all task switching all the time and our attention's pulled in so many different directions and that's what's making us so exhausted.

9:33She said, but it's not from doing too much, it's from being everywhere and nowhere all at once. And I think we are doing that, aren't we? Where like, she talked about when she realised it, which was that she kind of congratulated herself and I think she'd done school drop off and she was in the car and she was racing to a meeting and there was a red light and while she was at the red light, she managed to send an email and she was like, goodness me, my head's in just so many different places. Or, you know, you're replying to messages while you're in the supermarket queue, you're catching up on work while you're watching TV.

10:00And it's essentially this really inefficient, exhausting way to live your life. And we're never fully in one place. And as a result, our brains don't get a chance to rest. Like how many times have you actually watched TV without doing something else? It's also, I'm just constantly maximising my time. I feel like any window I possibly have commuting to me is work time. You know, I won't just sit and listen to I've got too much to do. It's so interesting because I feel like I'm only able to achieve the amount I have on my plate if I work like that. But then I'm not very present, which but that is why I think in a balance that that's why at the weekends or something, I try really hard to be really present in the time off that we have where we don't have to be working.

10:43completely and I think one of the points that she made which I really resonated with is obviously to your point where there's like times where that's the case but I also catch myself on my commute where I use it very much as like part of the working day then picking up my phone and doing something else and I'm half writing a podcast script but then I'm like oh my gosh I said I'd get a bouncy castle for the birthday party and then so I stopped doing that and I start googling and then I make a call and then I'm like oh I'll just quickly check my Instagram feed oh I'll check my dms okay i'm just going to fire off a whatsapp to read about something else okay i'll now go back to the podcast script and i think her point is like that's just exhausting for your brain whereas if i had spent 15 minutes without moving doing what the podcast script closed my laptop spent 10 minutes on my admin and not looked at instagram for any of that time we would be much less exhausted do you know i've got a theory this is again an evolutionary theory and people may disagree with me but I think there's also a natural depending on what type of personality trait you are or gender you are drive towards this I think women being natural multitaskers especially once you are a parent and you're juggling lots of different hats I think we naturally lean towards doing this more because it's programmed into us to be multitaskers to be able to absorb the loads it's really hard to have an off switch I'm saying that without judgment I know that there are some men that are probably fantastic multitaskers but I would love to know because I do think that some of us are more predisposed to these behaviors as well than others.

12:16Me too and what I really took from it is like if you get a moment to relax say you're watching half an hour tv at the end of the day in the evening or you're reading a book or you're having a bath or you're doing it's nine o 'clock you're doing half an hour whatever for you stop doing something else at the same time as I said like how many times if you watched a show with your phone or how many times have you had a bath and scrolled or you're reading a book and you should keep picking up your phone and I just thought that was really powerful and I liked this quote as well and her points the difference of like reclaiming things and she said we have to think about it very differently focus is an act of emotional resilience how do we claim our clarity and presence in a world that commodifies our attention how do we decide what matters and protect it I think it's a really good reminder and I'm going to actively try Ella to be more present on the one task I do and yeah embrace it.

13:06But I think the point that your brain finds it exhausting is really powerful. It is, you do feel tired all the time, sometimes I also feel really nauseous when I look at technology just all the time, it's just not nice. Yeah and I think the idea that could you have a laser focus on something for 10 minutes, laser focus on something else for 10 minutes as opposed to trying to do it all at once and therefore finding it exhausting and overwhelming and also probably not doing it as well. This is why I find structuring my day or diarising each hour segment really helpful. It's probably why we love this podcast so much as well, because we literally get to concentrate on what we're discussing fully with each other for our segmented time each week.

13:42And it's quite rare people get to do that. They're even multitasking. Yeah, you're right. This has been a very good headline, Ella. Okay, so that's just a little niceness for all of us, a little reminder to when you get a moment for yourself, take it. So we're talking about that headline in nature. You know, you get the benefits of nature if you focus on nature. If you focus on modern noises or phones, etc., you don't get the benefit of nature. I think this is the same thing. Like, if you want the benefits of relaxation, you've got to focus on your relaxation. I absolutely agree. 100 % relaxation is so important to everybody.

14:15And even 10 minutes does so much. Now we're talking about something completely different next. Yeah, Ella. So it's actually, I think it's positive, but let's discuss. So England bans buy one, get one free deals on junk food. This is something that's been trying to be pushed through forever. So multi-buy promotions, you know, it would say, if you buy this one KitKat jumbo pack, you can have another one for free, those sorts of things on food and drinks. No offence to KitKats. I do love the old KitKat, but they're now banned in England as part of a wider a plan essentially to tackle obesity and make healthy choices easier?

14:48As you said, really, this has been something that's been in the pipeline for a long time. It's been delayed. One of the oppositions to it, completely understandably, is that obviously we've had huge inflation in food prices over the last five years or so. And we've had an economic crisis. And as a result, we've got this cost of living crisis. And that has been one of the big reasons why this didn't come into force earlier because obviously this does make food cheaper because you're getting deals on it. The argument on the flip side is we need to stop making unhealthy food so cheap so it's so available.

15:22But of course that comes with lots of caveats. We then need to make healthy food much cheaper. So it's not simple. But the headline is that, as you said, as of last week, these multi-briot promotions, buy one, get one free, etc. have been banned. This is going to apply to supermarkets, larger high street shops, online retailers. Big focus of this is actually childhood obesity as well as overall obesity. It also means, and you've probably seen some of this as well, that it's banned free refill promotions on certain sugary drinks, fizzy drinks in restaurants and cafes. So you can't have that like all you can eat anymore.

15:57Do you know, I don't remember as a child ever seeing that until we did this one big family holiday when I was like 10 to America. I remember it so clearly, like we'd say for ages and we went to Disney World. And I remember seeing refills for the first time ever. And I was just in awe. I think I was going for it. Like I had a jumbo like cup of sparkling drinks or whatever fruity, cherry flavoured fizzy stuff I could get my hands on. And I have to say, I think the food landscape has just changed so drastically in 30 years. But what they've said is this is just the first step. So what they're going to be doing, it will also be followed by a ban on the advertising of less healthy food on TV.

16:36But this is before 9pm and then a complete ban online from January. So they're kind of phasing it in Ella step by step. So the government are introducing a new classification system to define which food and drinks are considered unhealthy. Now, this is such a difficult task. I think we've obviously had traffic lights available for a long time you know the red green amber they're not mandated to be on packs um but they do exist but there's a lot of problems with those as a classification system i always think the best example is a packet of almonds which as we talked about for 23 almonds a day great for you for your skin for your health antioxidants great protein fat all the rest of it they come up obviously with red on them because they are high in fat whereas sugar-free jelly would come up as green that would have all green traffic but obviously sugar-free green jelly is terrible for you yeah like it doesn't have any fiber it doesn't have any vitamins there's nothing going for it and so that's a difficult system so I don't think there is a perfect classification system it'll be really interesting to see what they roll out yeah but for now it's all the obvious things coca-cola fizzy drinks crisps sweets chocolates ice cream, pastries, cakes.

17:47It does include fish fingers, which I thought was interesting, and some pizzas. But otherwise, I think it's pretty straightforward in terms of what it's covering. Yeah, I agree. And Greg Fell, who's the president of the Association of Directors of Public Health, he basically said this still shouldn't be seen though as a silver bullet, because it was so long overdue. And it just should not have been delayed from 2022. I remember the outrage when it was and he explained more that the multi by promotions do not save people money. And I think that's what's really important to remember he said in fact they encourage them to spend more so they are designed to encourage impulsive purchases and to normalize buying more and more frequently it really is like a reverse psychology move isn't it it is because what you'll normally see is not buy one get one free what you'll normally see is buy one get one half price for example so you're not saving people money because probably people wouldn't have bought two but the other one's such a good deal you feel you should buy it which I think is is very relevant I mean those promotions are what brings people into brands it's what makes brands grow it's a very important part of any kind of commercial strategy for the year and they are designed to make you buy more and for the brands not to lose a lot of money so I think it's I think this is absolutely true it really is and you know a few of the supermarkets are on this already aren't they they are and I'll tell you what actually I've been in quite a lot of retailer meetings over the last few months and I have been in retailer meetings since 2015 you know when we used to talk to retailers I'd be there like guys we've got an all-natural brand we don't use mulciparas it's so cool and people generally be like yeah yeah no that's nice like well done a bit like when a three-year-old does a picture like you know scribbles I was like that's sweet there was obviously a few people I'm not saying like everyone everyone was discouraging but it was a general sentiment of like good for you you're an anomaly no one really cares whereas what's so interesting now is honestly that sentiment is so different in a really positive way so many of the meetings that I have been in recently there is a health agenda very much at play especially in the much much bigger retailers who hold such a key to the future of the public's health it's really being driven as a big internal policy.

20:07So that makes me feel so confident. We have all been leaving these meetings being like, this is really cool. That's so nice. I think that makes such a difference. And obviously these specific ones are probably based on HFSS, so high fat, salt and sugar, which is probably how they're being classified as options. But before the ban, 20 out of every 100 items sold were classified as unhealthy. And then after it was introduced, the number fell to 19. I mean, that does actually work out as 2 million fewer unhealthy products sold every day. So it's a step in the right direction. As Ella said, a few supermarkets at Tesco Sainsbury's already introduced similar restrictions.

20:43And if Ella's in their hearing actively that people just want to change now, I think Ella, everybody is absolutely fed up. And I think even those that are not in these conversations with us now, that aren't privy to these types of conversations you know life is really hard and they are just trying to get by i would say you know they want this nobody wants to be sold unhealthy items i'm sure they'd rather see buy one get one free on bananas yeah apples yeah i think when we're talking about healthy food it doesn't have to be like on kale no like it's on like wellness food and much as kale is delicious it can be exactly on these on potatoes on apples on bananas on rice on these kind of real staple ingredients that are whole food yeah so look I feel I genuinely feel we're going to talk about a little bit later we're talking about Joey Wicks's UPF documentary there's a lot in the ethos at the moment in the air the ethos in there um in the ether that's what I was trying to say there is an ether in the air but you are right but basically I feel like something's happening I feel there is you know we need a tidal wave to to turn the tide it's not but I do feel like there's ripples there's currents there is as I said been in this industry a long time and I feel like people used to say good for you that's nice you've got this engaged online community you care about health no one else cares and I just think that's really different now which is amazing.

22:05Change is happening everybody let's watch this space because we seem to have launched the wellness scuba at the time where things are actually moving so let's hope it continues that way and on the subject of moving the next headline we've got for you is also really positive but equally for me a bit oh no because it says intense exercise is good for the brain scientists find that high intensity workouts offer gains for the mind not just the body because of the production of lactate and that that's from a study and Ella my issue is I just don't think I have time for high intensity exercise oh my god I hate it anytime someone's like do a buff me I'm like no just no like I'm just gonna sit down I just it's my nemesis and so I caveat all of this with like we're gonna go through this I've read the study I've read lots of papers around it and lots of the headlines still not gonna do it I hate high intensity exercise yeah I think I'm the same to be honest because we also know the benefits from just walking or just running every now and again in the garden or whatever it is so I don't want anybody to panic when they hear this headline but I think also it's good to see the benefits of exercise oh my goodness it's so good and obviously when we're talking about the benefits of exercise it's often about strength fitness cardiovascular health so your heart health but here the researchers were looking at the brain and what they found is that intense exercise so not just the gentle stroll that Rhea and I like can bring powerful benefits for cognition and mental performance so participants who took part in these high intensity sessions just a few times a week showed really measurable improvements in brain function compared to those who stuck with the moderate exercise.

23:41So that meant sharper focus, better memory recall and a noticeable reduction in mental sluggishness. Because also I think it's important to remember though first of all as a little caveat not everyone has an hour a day to work out but if this is for you and this will be for a lot of our listeners so many people will enjoy this short of like short burst like a structured high intensity session of 15 to 20 minutes because that still has measurable neurological benefits and I will reiterate you have to do that safely I think there was a phase like 10 years ago online of HIIT training being really popular and actually it was quite dangerous because people weren't watching their form and technique when they were exercising but a short burst of anything is still better than nothing guys yeah and I think what was also interesting in this study is like I think lactic acid which is obviously what we were looking at here is something that's almost been quite negative like I almost remember it at school when you would have like stitches or those like heavy tired feeling after people will be like oh you've got lots of lactic acid going on and actually these scientists are saying no no no no it's not a faux it's not a bad thing it's your friend lactic acid and it's when you're pushing yourself to that high intensity that lactate that lactic acid is building up and actually it's fueling the brain it's triggering an increase in something called brain derived neurotrophic factor or bdnf and you can think of that i'm going to give you a gardening analogy since I'm so into that these days but it's like a fertilizer for the brain it's helping new neurons grow it's strengthening connections it's keeping the mind really resilient as we age which is obviously so incredibly important so essentially now we want to fertilize our gut and fertilize our brain and I think that is a really good take home from today's podcast because movement I know people use this phrase a lot and movement can't replace medicine but it can be preventative and look at it that way there's a phrase movement is medicine I get a bit funny about those food is medicine movements medicine it's not but it should be seen as a form of something we can do to give to ourselves and we do need reminders because as we said in the first headline with how much we're multitasking and we're so busy all the time we just rarely take that moment for ourselves to give ourselves that little burst so let us know what you're doing everyone I would love to know how you fit in short bursts of exercise I would find that quite motivating.

25:57I often think I wish I thrived and loved HIIT workouts because a kind of very regular 15 minute workout would do wonders for me. I just... My friend Jenny Francis, she works for Results with Bump, part of my friend Lucy's program, RWL, and they do all these sorts of online things, but she loves it. You know, you see some people that are like the Duracell Bunny ad. That is just her whole makeup, her genetic personality. I am not like that. So anybody listening please give us some tips pop the comments in spotify what do you do do you do like lavina does squats on the spot or do you do a quick run around outside the block and then come back to your desk i'd love to know i keep thinking that i want to get the kids a trampoline for christmas and then maybe i'll do like 15 minutes of trampolining it's good test for your pelvic floor i will say that because we do a lot of trampolining here and then i realized after two children that even with the pelvic floor exercises it's not quite as good as it used to be so i need to keep I need to keep working on it but yeah it is really good although I will say the biggest recorded accidents in A &E are from trampolines I know just watch them everybody just be careful if you're getting a trampoline at home just be safe I see that on Instagram feed a lot what's the one thing you as a doctor won't let your children do yes that's exactly the one I saw going around which I think moves us on to what's trending in wellness Ella

27:21Say what you want about AI, but it's here. And it's helping businesses get more done in a day. Wix's website builder is infused with AI so you can stay ahead. Create a beautiful, functional website just by describing your idea. Track how your site appears in AI search results. Create custom images on demand. Or launch an entire campaign in a matter of minutes. Wix gives you AI wherever you need it. Try it now for free at Wix.com. We actually have more trends than headlines this week for you. But we want to start off with, we mentioned it last week, came out on Monday, Joe Wix's new documentary, which came out on Channel 4, which is Joe Wix License to Kill.

28:04Reeve watched it, right? Yeah. Yeah, us too. We watched it on Monday. It's actually the first TV we've watched since we moved into our new house because we don't have a TV yet. But I got it on my computer. anyway so look if you've missed it it's a new channel 4 documentary with joe wicks who's kind of the uk's most prominent fitness coach but also kind of a big author and health and fitness guru to many people and professor chris van tilliken who wrote ultra process people which is a humongous bestseller and i think really actually was one of the big moments and putting upfs on the map and getting people in a much wider public sense to think differently about their food it is really well worth watching there's obviously a lot of online conversation around it it's a very interesting watch they basically set out to create what they dub the UK's most dangerous health bar they do it because they want to expose how many potential harmful ingredients are legally allowed on our shelves how easy it is to market ultra processed products as healthy and how broken our food system is basically in order to push for policy change they want clearer labeling they want health warnings, they want tighter regulations.

29:12And they kind of guide each other through this. And Chris Van Tilken talks a lot about what the overconsumption of UPFs look like. It's now linked to around 14 % of premature deaths in the UK. He watches them as they launch this bar to the public. It's limited at one per person and profits go to charity. And the stunt is very much designed to kind of look at government responsibility and regulation, not on personal blame. I think that's important to say. So the reactions to the documentary, what's so interesting is Joe launched the bar. Remember, I had one in my bag, didn't I? He launched it a week before the documentary came out.

29:48And I first want to start by saying how incredibly brave it is for anybody as an individual. We have to remember these are real people here to put themselves in a position where they're talking about something that's immensely controversial. We don't even have an officially recognized classification for UPFs, which makes it incredibly difficult to actionably change. And I think for Joe to stand up there and have the courage, because underneath the message, I mean, we'll discuss perhaps what people didn't like about it in a minute. But I think underneath the message, he just wants to make a difference.

30:20How guided that was in the documentary is variable, but he 100 % comes from the sincerity of, I just want to help people. So we can't deny that. And I just wanted to state that fact I think before we go ahead wouldn't you agree Ella that that is the underlying crux of it yeah I totally agree and I think you know I remember the moment and it was where we ended up creating our food company from but I remember the moment when I was in supermarkets and I had never thought about what was in my food it just wasn't interesting to me wasn't relevant to me and then after I got ill and I changed my diet and started looking at my nutrition and I started turning over backs of packets in supermarkets and being like, why are there so many emulsifiers, additives, flavourings, etc.

31:04in here? I had no idea what I was eating was so ultra processed essentially and therefore lacking in whole food ingredients. It just hadn't crossed my mind basically. And I think ultimately that's why we have a fibre crisis because our diet is 60 % of adults and in lower economic groups that can be up to 80 % of food consumption can be UPF. And that means we're not eating fiber. And that's why obviously I'm passionate about the fiber book. You create the products, you create Ella. But I think what happened essentially is the nuance wasn't explained at the beginning of the documentary. So there was no kind of overview of, you know, baby formulas are UPF, but, you know, we have to understand also why they're there.

31:44I agree. Obviously, I agree. I think we need this regulation And I'm so happy that Joe's made a stand about this. But I have to as a health professional, and Chris and Joe would know that, I run a clinic where we see eating disorder cases. We have disabilities and sorts of people that need UPFs to survive. And now I've had messages saying I'm really scared to touch my usual Huel Fortified product or something that I need that helps me on my medication that I have that week. Is it really bad for me? I'm now scared to touch all products. And I think what happened is because the nuance of UPFs wasn't fully explained by Channel 4, Channel 4 wanted to pitch this very theatrically.

32:25And you can see the producer, whoever produced this, went for blue lighting, mist and smoke, like a kind of Frankenstein lab. It's been referred to a lot as Breaking Bad, you know. Has it? Yeah, that's a huge show and they're kind of making crystal meth. it's just a shame because it didn't give any they didn't have a registered professional or health pressure like a nutritious or dietitian to give new ones which all it needed was someone at the start to say yes we have a problem yes we want to see change but in a kind way we understand this is privileged and joe did refer to his own background a lot because gosh he has fought so hard to be where he is now and no one can deny that you know he said he was raised on upfs and And that is the situation for so many people in the country.

33:10And what we did like, and I discussed with my eating disorder dieticians, Ella, was that they weren't framing health based on weight, which was really refreshing because usually in documentary, I don't like calling this a documentary because it wasn't balanced. This was very much used as a stunt to push the government. And the side that's been missed is the care for the public, I think. And Joe even said himself, I don't know if I want to sell this. You know, am I doing the right thing? and I saw a lot of backlash initially Ella from health professionals that have got it all wrong you know they were saying oh he's going to make so much money from this documentary first of all guys tv does not pay does not pay well unless you're right probably like I don't know a strictly come dancing presenter or something he won't be paid well for that and then this is going to make so much profit off these bars and actually the bars were for charity and just a bit of a stunt you know well there's only five to ten thousand of them anyway it's like a tiny number yeah what could have done is created a product just like all the other protein bars on the market filled with upfs and he could have sold it and he could have made an extraordinary amount of money and bought an enormous company and then gone on to sell it to unilever or something so he forego millions upon millions i would argue in order to do this and i think that integrity is unusual and that's so nice to hear because that's the side that most of us don't understand ella and i don't as you know, for you with your business hat on, that most people won't realize he will have turned down a profitable opportunity here, if anything put his reputation on the line.