Protein, Skin Food, and the Battle Against Birthday Cake

24:17You know, people used to down a protein shake after a workout and be like, yeah, I've replenished my protein. It doesn't quite work like that. It's all the little things across the day that then add up that helps speed up that particular metabolism and help build your muscle or retain your muscle. So if Ella was, let's say, for example, hypothetically speaking, if Ella was 60 kilograms or Joe Bloggs is 70 kilograms. He needs 70 grams of protein a day, roughly speaking. Now, we do not have a protein deficiency in the UK. Can you just say that nine more times and a bit louder for everyone to hear?

24:49We don't have one. It's actually infuriating when you've got other things we can discuss, like hospital cases going through the roof, people not getting vitamins and minerals they because they do not eat fruit and vegetables or hit five a day, yet they're worried about topping up protein levels that are already adequate and are doing the job. I find it completely bizarre. Yes, know where it's coming from. Know where you get your protein from. Know where it is at every meal of the day. But you do not need to be excessively taking it. And it's not a panacea for health. I think, and I said this when I was speaking to BBC Radio 4, I think that protein has become a key buzzword that equates to health.

25:30Oh, I'm having a high protein shake. I'm healthy today. It's not. The things that are going to contribute to your overall well-being are more the fiber, the vitamins and minerals with the protein, not the protein alone. It's not going to do miracles. But, OK, do you think it's because it's sexier? Because what I'm always conscious about. Oh, Ella, yes, this is it. Yeah, because basically when I think one of the things that's really interesting to me is that there is this. and I know we'll talk about it later with skin, there is always this interlink between wellness and health and as a pursuit for genuinely feeling really energized when you wake up in the morning for having a clear and calm mind, for feeling like you are getting that health span that you're going to live into your 70s and 80s with great health and not be in loads of pain or the rest of it.

26:21But then there's also health and wellness for the sake of looking a certain way and there's no escaping. And don't get me wrong, Like I have elements of vanity completely in me. Everyone does. There's definitely things I do for the sake of looking a certain way versus feeling a certain way. I'd be the first person to say that. But I think it can become quite murky at a certain point. And the thing that I think is interesting about protein is protein is so much sexier. It's so much more associated with six packs and looking really lean and muscular. Nakedness. Nakedness, yeah. Looking great. Yeah.

26:51Whereas fiber is associated with your poo. Poo. Yes, exactly. And so it's like, even though we know it's so vital to us, it just hasn't had the cut through because it's not sexy because it's about your poo. Because animalistically speaking, if you know what I'm trying to say, yes, that's what we see. We see body shapes and sizes talking about protein. And we don't see that with the fiber message because fibers link to heart health, longevity, gut health. Yes, it's linked to poo. And that is exactly why. honestly the protein conversation we need a whole episode on Ella we definitely do but I think it's a nice nugget for people to say that as you're saying protein is so so important and it's not to discount that nor is it to say there's anything bad about having a protein focused snack or meal as per our egg pots and in a way amazing something natural is beating something UPF hooray but you don't need to get bogged down in it or feel like it has to be the be all and end all of everything that you eat.

27:48Yeah, it's got to be paired with other lifestyle factors, weight bearing exercise, sleep, the overall diet, protein at every part of the meal. Your metabolism doesn't select single nutrients and then say that it's going to be better for you than another macronutrient like your carbs or your fats. You need it all in the right amounts that work for you. Oh, we love that advice. So let's move on to the headlines that matter.

28:15it is so important to me that my home feels like a calm and cozy sanctuary from the chaos of the world i found that beyond decorating sensory things like warm smells and soft textures make the biggest impact for that and especially as it cools down outside i'm looking for the best ways to snuggle up on my couch i recently moved and one of the very first things i added to my new living room was my bubble cuddle blanket from cozy earth it's a faux fur material that is so incredibly soft and has this cool bubble design that makes it look and feel very plush it's a mid-weight construction so i've honestly decided against getting a weighted blanket because it's not too heavy but you still get that feeling of security when you lie under it my roommate has said it's her new favorite blanket and we've been keeping it on the couch at all times instead of the blanket basket with the rest of our options.

29:04I've also been loving my bamboo sheets from Cozy Earth. The temperature regulating capabilities were great for the summer and now that it's getting a little cooler at night I'm just really appreciating the softness of the sheets and pillowcases. It's like I'm slipping into a cloud every night. Plus you can try them risk-free with Cozy Earth's 100 night sleep trial. If you don't love them you just return them hassle-free but believe me you're gonna be hooked after the first night. So if you're looking to make your home a little more cozy this fall, head to CozyEarth.com and use my code SCOOP for 20 % off.

29:34That's CozyEarth.com code SCOOP. And if you get a post-purchase survey, make sure you let them know you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Because home isn't just where you live, it's how you feel. So let's go home with Cozy Earth. Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from EPCLIS. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBCLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintained skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. EBCLIS, LibriKizumab, LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema.

30:17Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies.

30:46There were so many headlines this week and so much to talk about. I think it's why I couldn't sleep last night because I was so excited to talk about everything in this episode. But it has been difficult to pick, but we've got three to talk about today. And the first one is that the Global Commission on Clinical Obesity has just published a proposal that's calling for the change in how we define and treat obesity, which just feels so relevant today. So it's a commission of 58 medical professionals from organizations, including the Cardiometabolic Health Congress, Harvard Medical School, King's College Hospital, the World Obesity Federation, and they are asserting in the Lancet Diabetes and Endocrinology Journal that the current definition of obesity is not nuanced enough to cover the spectrum of the condition and the different treatments needed for individual cases.

31:32This again feels very topical because of all the conversation around this NPIC and various different interventions that are so topical today. But the specific aim of the commission was to establish objective criteria for disease diagnosis, adding clinical decision making and prioritization of therapeutic interventions and public health strategies. And you have been talking about this all week. So tell us. I know. Constant media interviews on this all week, everybody. And it's because every time we have a new government, we've had so many overweight and obesity strategies in this country for the last decade.

32:04And most of them don't get followed through. They change. As a nutritionist, I'm constantly, we get this email through from our accrediting body that says, this has come out today. Everybody familiarise yourself with what the government now want you to do and how you're meant to approach this new strategy. It came through the other day and I thought, right, here we go. And sure enough, the phone starts ringing and you start speaking about it. But we have to acknowledge the fact that it does impact one billion people and nobody chooses this. But what's really key here is that obesity is complex.

32:35And what's really good about this is finally I feel like there's an acknowledgement that there's psychology involved here. There's where you're from involved here. You know, there's the poverty divide here. there's other mental health illnesses or comorbidities that can impact how overweight or obese you are and become. And I think the big concern is that we need to start looking at childhood obesity figures massively. And the strain on the NHS already is huge. Obesity isn't a choice. And just a little disclaimer, obviously, Ella and I, you know, we've got opinions on this. But we all know people that are living with obesity that are struggling with their weight.

33:12And it's not easy. It's a difficult thing. So definitely go and speak to a health professional if you need advice there too. So for this paper to go through, the discussions on TV that came about, which I was seeing, and I actually declined an interview about BMI because I don't think, as somebody that has a team that work with eating disorders as well as obesity, my master's, Ella, was in obesity risks and prevention. I studied it in depth, but obviously things have moved forwards now. BMI, as we know, isn't a healthy measure for lots of people. The example we've used before on podcast is that rugby players can have an overweight, you know, BMI, body mass index because they've got so much muscle.

33:49It doesn't indicate how healthy you are. However, there has to be a category and a cutoff point somewhere. How else do you define scientific research? You know, a lot of it is a bit of a let's pick a number, let's go with a scale and let's try and make a paper work. So BMI is so complicated. It's not the best ratio. And now they're actually starting to consider let's do all the other ratios. Let's have a look at their waist hip. Let's have a look at their body fat percentages. Let's do more in-depth stuff, but that costs money. So instead of a GP just saying, what's your weight? What's your height?

34:21Let's do a simple calculation. They want to invest more into this area. So if we ditched BMI, where does that leave us? Which is the recommendation in here. How else are you meant to measure things? And this is the conversation that's emerging this week. This is what I was being asked. What do I think about BMI? what do I think about childhood obesity? I had another interview that came up about portion sizes on children's plates. Is that the cause for childhood obesity? That was being asked on the Times radio about it saying, do you think parents are overfeeding children? And where do you even start?

34:55It's a constant blame game. Is it the parents' fault? Is it the government's fault? We've got to start working together as a society and just be kind and try and just have an open conversation and just make small changes. It's incredibly overwhelming and it's difficult not to look at it and think it's the fault of the landscape that we live in or as a larger proportion of where the issue sits. It's just the fact that it is now almost counterculture choice to try and eat healthily and how difficult it is. And, you know, we see that all the time. We look at what's on shelf on supermarkets and almost everything is ultra processed.

35:27Almost everything has the most extraordinary number of ingredients. And then there's all these claims, protein being one of them as you said like a protein chocolate bar and it's so difficult to navigate you know cocoa pops there on the front of pack supporting your family's health how is anybody meant to make decisions when it's this much of a minefield and I think but equally I think it really is interesting and what I really liked about this and everything I was reading on it was this move away from that more personal responsibility and saying let's have a more nuanced conversation let's look at this in a way that felt more like we want to help people versus point fingers at people which is absolutely brilliant but as you said it's also the ideal way to measure it wasn't BMI it was body scans and as a health system that's already struggling so much the idea of that feels nigh on impossible so felt like positive recommendations very difficult to implement but also again just a shining a light on how challenging our health environment is at the moment and again it's something that I am I'm going to say obsessed because I like to be a women of extremes with this interesting divergence we've had where 15 years ago, no one talks about wellness.

36:36Wellness is now the ultimate buzzword. You see it everywhere. It tops at all charts and books, podcasts. Eggs are making top sales. Eggs beat McCoys. It's mega. Yeah. At the same time, our health is worse than it's ever been. So there's something about wellness that's fundamentally not working for enough people. At uni, we were told we live in an obesogenic environment. That's the phrase. We live in an obesogenic environment because it's full of ultra processed food and it's full of those Coco Pops claims. And it's so hard to navigate. There is a very important question to be asked as to why. I read something the other day that said 99 % of people know they should eat their five a day.

37:12I mean, there is so much information around health and yet we are all collectively struggling so much to implement so much of this. And as you said, so much of that is that environment that we live in. But I do think we have to look ourselves very directly in the mirror and ask what about the wellness industry is working and what is not because the education is there the information is there there's an overload of it and yet it's but is it just the people that are in the wellness industry that are able to do it because if you're outside of that bubble then it is a really different question isn't it it's a different view so in scotland ella just another headline just you and i when When we saw this, I could not believe it.

37:52So I'm just going to say, OK, people are going to... Oh, it's so controversial, Ella. It's so controversial. I'm scared. No, don't be scared. That's the point of the show. OK, we've got to have opinions. And I think, as we said at the end of the show last week, we get to the top of the show this week. It is quite scary to have opinions in the world today. This is really scary for me. This is my big scare factor of the whole episode. OK, I'm going to say it. Birthday cakes and sweet trees are about to be banned from playgroups and nursery schools across Scotland. So new guidance has been drawn out by the SNP government and it's going to make everybody who are looking after playgroup, nursery age children responsible for cutting out all quote unquote unhealthy food and drink.

38:29And there's a very long list of products in there. And it includes things like chicken nuggets, fish fingers, anything deep fried like chips, as well as birthday cake, which is what was making headlines, chocolate, fruit juice, sweets, etc. I'm not scared. I think it's great. Well done. You said it because I do too. But my problem is, as a health professional, I can see all these other sides to the coin. Like I can see somebody that perhaps the only treat they can give their child because they don't have the income to buy other things is to get them that pack of sweets, to get them that cake. And I'm thinking, oh, gosh.

39:01But if I literally have my public health nutrition hat on, it's blooming fantastic. Like it literally is such a good measure. But it's not going to be liked and it's not easy for people. No, I mean, it's definitely not liked. A lot of people have said it's draconian and you have those images of Jamie Oliver's school dinners and turkey twizzlers going through your gates. Nanny state claims in the headlines everywhere. We're turning into a, is it nanny state? That's what they say? Yeah. And I'm not surprised. I don't think that's an unfair accusation. But your child, we had this discussion. So Ella and I, it was months ago, it was last year on another podcast.

39:33We were talking and we said every party we go to, and our kids were both under four, and there's packs of Haribo. There's cake at the nursery. and there could be three birthdays in a week and they're having three lots of birthday cake in a week. And actually under the age of two, the NHS guidance is no added sugars. You know, look, I think it's great for the same reasons that I think banning phones and social media under children 16 or grey, not because I call myself a woman of extremes earlier, but not because I actually want extremes on everything and not because I don't want people to have choice and not because I think that people need to eat 100 % natural, 100 % of the time and can never eat sweets or birthday cake.

40:09I do not believe that. That's not how my children live. It's absolutely not. But as you said, it's the influx of it. And for parents and, you know, looking at both phones and sweets as great examples, it's just so hard to navigate. It puts other children. So let's take a scenario. You're at a nursery and you've said you don't want your child to have cakes. This happened to me under the age of two. I don't think there was any need for it. At four, three, four, I changed my mind. But someone brings in a whole punnet full of cupcakes. every child in the class takes it but your child isn't allowed it because the parent like me has said I'd prefer them not to have it I then don't want my child to feel left out isolated and alone because they can't have something because that distills an unhealthy relationship with food but in my opinion if this ban was in in the first place we'd never have these uncomfortable situations so that's a positive for me and they can have those sweet treats at their birthday party or at home why do you have to impose it on all the other children at the nursery and that is my controversial opinion because I've been there and lived it.

41:09No and that's what I think and as I said it's not I actually remember having a conversation with someone and they said which I thought was so wise that balance is brilliant and we're all here saying we love balance who doesn't love balance but balance is the wrong way around where one in five of us are getting 80 % of our calories from ultra processed food and one in four of us managed to get our five a day. So there's nothing wrong with, let's call them trees, sweets, like, et cetera, et cetera. There's nothing wrong with that. No one's saying never have chips. Really can't overemphasize that enough.

41:43Same for children, excluding under two point. But what there is, is we need to switch it. And so we're all here saying, let's have balance, let's have balance. But her opinion was that we've just taken that bit far. And actually what it is, we need to have balance the other way, where the majority of what we're eating is fresh, it's nourishing, it's packed with vitamins, minerals, protein, fiber, antioxidants, all these things that we know are so important for our health, for our physical health, for our mental health. And then we pepper on the trees and that's great. I think so. But the problem is the landscape is the other way around.

42:15And so you almost have to go a bit further than anyone would like to go to some extent in sense of like removing it from that sort of environment in order to facilitate that balance to happen because otherwise it is now an impossible. So that's where I stand on it. I agree with you because I agree with you. I know we share the same values on this, but I know what the counter argument is because I face it with work every day. There's people and other professionals that believe that intuitive eating, children are obviously intuitive. they believe that if you put on the plate a cupcake broccoli carrots your child most of the time will eat all of those items on the plate and not just the cupcake now i actually disagree with this and it's true once a child is a certain age but under the age of two it's just completely pointless their taste buds are still developing everything's still changing their brain is still growing it's the most rapid phase of growth for your brain between naught and two it's called the first a thousand days of research and feeding them unnourishing items that are just going to potentially also go the other way and give them more of a damaging relationship with food.

43:21And just one more note on birthday cake. Obviously, again, a little disclaimer, I feel like we should say this, but it's far from easy for parents in today's society. Like I said before, we live in an obesogenic society. Parents aren't told. We have practically no support. We don't even have a village anymore. So food is hard. It's a really emotive topic for us all. So there's no judgment here. We're just simply discussing the headlines. Exactly. It is very difficult. We have all made things for our children that they reject adamantly. There's all sorts of things they won't eat. My sister's boyfriend actually looked at me at the weekend.

43:52He said, why don't children like vegetables? You know, it's not easy. So this is, again, this isn't about any individual person. This is just about the environment we live in and how difficult it is to navigate. And actually, do we need to move slightly more extreme in order almost to help us all navigate it? And actually, interestingly, that question of do we need a bit of help to navigate how difficult the food environment is moves us on to our last headline of the week, which I think was very interesting in terms of just this evolving science and the fact that we're learning more and more every single day, which is that yesterday, we're recording this on a Thursday, so this was on a Wednesday, the FDA in the US moved to ban a bright red dye.

44:33It's called Red Dye No. 3. It's used in drinks and snacks, lots of sweets, and it has been linked to cancer in animals, specifically in rat studies. It was approved permanent use in food and ingested drugs about 50 years ago, but it now must be removed from all food by mid-January 2027 in the US. And I think it's been a two-year lobby to ban this dye. It's actually apparently in lots of bubblegum. So it's been a two-year fight, but it has just come into force, which I think is really interesting and one of the things that I wanted to ask your opinion on on this when I was looking at it last night is actually it just shows like I remember really early on when I changed my diet talking to people about it and someone saying but isn't everything just a chemical?

45:18Does it make any difference what kind of chemical it is? And I certainly definitely got my fair share of criticism Oh yeah, I remember those days Ella Yeah, it was lovely for putting forward a natural diet and a desire to move away from ultra-processed food. But I think what it shows is that, as I said earlier on, people were saying, is there enough evidence? Can we say this yet? And I think what it shows is this is so ever-evolving and it's changing all the time. We're seeing this a lot. Neurosexual come forward on why an emulsifier is bad for your gut health. And we don't have the perfect answer at the moment as to what specific ultra-processed ingredients are bad.

45:55But what we are seeing is that it is coming more and more to the forefront and the science is changing. We do. I will share this in a few weeks with you when I can share my big project. But there are actually five known additives that cause hyperactivity in children and it is listed on the Food Standards Agency in the UK's website. So well done, America, for actually getting that off the list. And given that, that does support the ban of those sweets and nurseries. Oh gosh, I'm so glad we got past that section. Right, moving on to what's trending in wellness.

46:28Right, so every week we unpack trends that we've seen and trends that perhaps we might try for you live. And today is the day I've just been dreading it. I've been sat here the whole time we've been talking with these two flasks. Actually, they're very cute little cups from Ella's kids that she's made some concoctions for me. And I've spoken about one of them before on the BBC and one of them is called Oatsempic and the other is Cheerwater. Ella, over to you. Okay, and just to clarify, it's oat, Zempit, like O-A-T, just porridge oat. And obviously, a Zempit and the conversation around these weight loss drugs has exploded over the last couple of years.

47:07We're going to delve into that into another episode because there's just so much to say that I think we can't cover it here. I do think if you want after this to kind of immediately learn a bit, Johan Hari talks a lot about it. He wrote a big book on it called Magic Pill and you can listen to him on something like Diary of a CEO. He does present the pros and cons of it in a really interesting way. So if you want to learn more, that's worth having a quick listen to. But basically, oat Zempic is a natural, I'm going to say replica. Of course, it's not a replica of the drug. It's not remotely a replica.

47:39No, we're going. But it's a TikTok play on. But the idea is that because oats are full of beta-glucan, which is a soluble fiber that's slow digestion, helps you keep full, it's going to mimic the same effects in the sense of you won't be hungry so you'll eat less. That's why I'm meant by replica. So to make it you're going to blend half a cup of oats with one cup of water and the juice of half a lime. I couldn't wait to talk to you about it and get your opinion on the lime because that's why I got quite fixated on last night. So I read so many articles why the lime is a lime and apoptose suppressant.

48:12I was on the Mayo Clinic where they'd done a piece of it and she was like no, why not vanilla or cinnamon? Like something a bit yummier. Anyway, it's really easy. a reminder that oats are super good for you. So from your half cup of oats, you can get four grams of fiber, you can get five grams of protein, you get lots of vitamins and minerals, 10 % of your iron intake. So this is not bad. Like your ed pot is not bad, not in any shape or form because oats are really good for you, as we said. But it's just weird. Why do we have to blend them? They look so rank. Because their appetite, it's like another, should we try it first and then I'll go into the, I'll be the negative nunny about it.

48:50Poor Ree because I made these this morning at home and before I took the kids to school and Skye, who's my older daughter, looked at me and she went, Mummy, I don't want to eat that. That looks disgusting. I was like, it's okay, it's not for you. It's a treat for Ree later. But I was also interested in making the kids porridge at the same time with essentially the same ingredients. Of course. But using milk and added berries and things to theirs and some almond butter. And I thought, oh. Lime to us. Dash of water. Yeah. Yay. And I just thought, oh, I wish I could add more to it. But anyway, cheers.

49:20So just to describe it, it's turned, obviously, because of the oats. It's like a pale white liquid. It looks almost like a plant milk. You need to kind of shake it up. We can't because we've got straws in it because all the ground-down oats kind of sit to the bottom of the cup. Yeah, it's like a thick, more gelatinous oat milk. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That is horrible. Because you get the lime first and then you get thick bits of oat stuck in your straw. Oh, my God. That really is. What a waste of your morning. It's OK. It was so quick. It really was so quick. It's the lime because the lime adds the flavour.

49:57It's like you've got a citrus hint of juice. There's no nutrition benefit to adding the lime, by the way, whatsoever. So I gather. If anything, it's a fermentation dream that's crazy. It's going to kick off. It's just an appetite suppressant. People were just playing on ozempic and oat. And I can honestly say that's the only reason why. And I would not recommend having this over actually eating your porridge because when you drink things, it hits your bloodstream at a faster rate. So what this is actually going to do is this is going to cause your blood glucose to rocket and then crash. So this is not a good way to start your morning because even the small amount of protein you get from the oats, because we blended everything together, it's just going to be a huge spike and then you'll get a huge crash and you will probably feel hungry again.

50:40But if we had mixed it with some nut butter, we sprinkled some pumpkin seeds or some hemp seeds. or something and we had some banana on it. Then it would be like a smoothie. No, I don't mean a smoothie. I mean as a bowl. Then we would actually really stabilise our blood sugar. Love porridge. And feel great. Yeah, absolutely. So why would you drink this watery lime? Let me just hang on one more go. I wouldn't recommend one more go. No, I can't because the straw's at the bottom and I'm just getting oat. I would drink the lime water. Yeah. It's just, again, can't say it enough. Healthy should be fun.

51:12It should be joyous. It should be great. You should look forward to your breakfast. Oh, raw oats. It's just there's so loads of great ingredients. And a tablespoon of oats, by the way, in your smoothie is really nice. And it's really good for you, as you said. And it tastes really nice. You can get all this benefit in an edible manner. Exactly. I mean, tell me who exactly is even drinking these drinks? Who's making these? Well, one TikTok video I was watching last night, which is one of the ones that lots of people have written about when they're talking about oats and pick. He said he lost£40 in two months doing this because his appetite was so under control.

51:41That's what the BBC asked me. That was the person,£40. But that's not safe. that's not a good amount of weight to lose in one month. But also wouldn't you have had the same benefit in terms of being less hungry if you had filled out with a really delicious oat-based meal? It's like people that juice though. This is the equivalent of a juice fast. It's just you're blending oats with water instead of blending vegetables and fruit. So our next one I think looks much better. Our next one is in the same world, but it's cheer water. And this is, again, these are so easy. And so, you know, all credit for that.

52:13It's literally just two tablespoons of chia seeds with a cup of water and then a squeeze of lemon. How much lemon did you put in? I had a bit of a, I'm sorry, a bit of a rank. I'll get the glasses. A bit of a slightly old looking lemon that didn't give me much juice. Glass for Ella, glass for me. Do you want to spoon that though? Because it's going to go all over there. Yeah, because the chia seeds have expanded. So chia seeds absorb little nutrition. In fact, 10 times their weight in water, which is why people make puddings with them. They become gelatinous. They become thick. I love chia pudding.

52:45Yeah, me too. I love it. It's an expensive ingredient, though. Let's just put this out there. This is not your everyday ingredient. It should be, but it's really expensive. But it is really good for you. Super rich in fiber, healthy fats. Omega-3. Omega-3, exactly, which is hard to get. Protein, antioxidants, micronutrients. So lots of benefit in this. Loads. It took me 15 seconds to make. My kids love chia seeds, so this could be a thing. Let's go. Let's go. I can drink that because the oat thing was just disastrous. I can drink chia water. I like it. But I like the texture. Some people won't like chia seeds because they look a bit like frog spawn.

53:18You know, when they expand. Is it frog spawn, isn't it? It's frog spawn. I was going to say frog sperm and I was like, no, it's frog spawn. Yeah. Frog sperm doesn't make a sound very nice. Sorry, everyone. No, I remember first making chia pudding when I was starting cooking and I was cooking up with my mum. And she hated it when she thought it was frog spawn. I've always loved it. Big fan of chia pudding. Me too. And I think this is interesting. And you said chia seeds are expensive, but they are like super, super dense in nutrition. And so actually, if you are maybe looking for things that fill you up, that maybe support you.

53:53But do not replace your meal. My one word of warning with these type of items on TikTok is they should not be seen as meal replacements. Chia water, like Ella said, put it alongside a meal. Yeah, or after a meal. After a meal, piece of fruit. But chia seeds are really good for you. I would rather this with a bit of yogurt, a tablespoon of oats mixed in. And have it as a chia pudding for breakfast. I love chia pudding. Me too. I think it's super, super delicious. How do you make your chia pudding not sink? We need tips from Ella here. So you know when you put it in the fridge overnight, you've whisked it up.

54:21How does it not all sink to the bottom? It does a little bit, but I think yoghurt really helps. So it's a mix of yoghurt and milk. Like a natural emulsifier. Exactly. And then I find some oats really help. So I'll do half oats and half chia, then some yoghurt, a little bit of milk. Mix it all up, as you said, pop it in the fridge overnight. It's super yummy. I know, as you said, some people don't like chia seeds, but if you do, that's delicious. If you listen, everybody, let us know if you make this. And you've just heard how good both chia seeds and oats are for you. And I think that's a more delicious take on both chia water and oat Zenpik.

54:51But if you are looking for something, I'd say chia water. I'm going to give that a 6 out of 10. 0 out of 10 for oat Zenpik. I kind of would echo, but I'm actually just going to say 5 out of 10 because it's just an addition. It's just an addition to a meal. If it was a chia pudding, Ella, I would probably go 10 out of 10. Maybe I'll make you chia pudding next week. Thank you. Okay, so obviously we're talking about trending. I think we all can't move but for seeing loads of conversation around skincare, around skin health, glowing skin. Collagen. Collagen, LED masks, superfoods and so on. So we thought that was the perfect topic to cover in our Ask the Expert section today.

55:29So today we've got Thivy Marathapu with us who's going to be talking about everything and whether trendy fixes really live up to the hype or whether or not we're just all putting way too much pressure on ourselves for totally unrealistic beauty standards. And Thithy, I think if we start by saying, look, diet and skin health, we hear it all the time. But is that actually, aside from the usual, you know, I'll eat your vitamin A or have your healthy fats. Is there a way of eating for glowing skin or is it mostly genetics? You know, those people that just seem to eat whatever they want and have great skin.

56:03Is there a link? It's such a good question. and I get asked about it all the time. So, you know, your skin health, it's multifactorial. There's so many different things that are playing a role here. So it is your diet. Your diet is an important part of general skin health. Your skin is supplied by all the nutrients from the food that you're eating. They do reach the skin. So what you're eating is reflected in your skin. But also, of course, your genetics. Some people are gonna be prone to certain skin conditions like eczema or breakouts. It doesn't matter what they eat. Although eating a really good balanced diet is important as an anti-inflammatory part of taking care, even if you have a skin condition.

56:38And of course, your skincare routine matters, how you live your life matters, whether you're doing lots of exercise or whether you're getting good sleep, whether you're keeping hydrated, whether you have lots of alcohol. It's actually all of it together that plays a really important role in how your skin looks and feels because your skin is so important in how you feel about yourself as well. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. It's amazing the impact it has on your self-esteem. And I think that's something we can all relate to. I know every time I open a magazine or I'm doom scrolling social media, which I do more than I don't care to admit, you see things like the 10 things you've got to eat for glowing skin or the eight skin superfoods and all sorts of quite clickbaity headlines.

57:21Are there, as you said, it does matter what we eat, but are there specific nutrients or specific superfoods, things in our diet that make a really big difference. What should we be thinking about adding? So when I'm in the clinic and I'm talking to people about what should you eat to look after your skin? And obviously in the clinic, I'm using it in conjunction with sometimes with medical treatment, sometimes with skincare routines. I always use my little acronym GLOW and it just helps people to remember what other nutrients are and try and think about how they want to build their plate because it's all about bringing good food into your diet rather than cutting things out.

57:57So the G stands for greens and all the colorful fruits and vegetables full of antioxidants. L is lean protein. That could be chickpeas. That could be tofu, whatever sources you want to get it from. But you need that protein for healthy skin. O is your oils and healthy fats, your omega-3. We want to have lots of olive oil, flax seeds, nuts and seeds. And finally, W is whole grains, which always seems to be something people are trying to remove from their diet, but actually is so important for your gut health and your gut is linked to your skin. and so I really try and make a balanced plate and I really talk to people you know when you look at your plate have you got all those nice things in your plate it doesn't have to be every meal of the day but throughout the day think about including all of those nutrient dense foods.

58:40And what I love about what you've just said is it's not just go and have an avocado or just just go and eat a handful of nuts for skin you've literally discussed what I would call a balanced plate as a nutritionist This is how to eat most of the time. It's not fatty. It's not expensive. This is your everyday balanced plate. So I guess a thought and a question is if we've got this skin microbiome as well with gut health, and there's lots of posts out there and people talking about these individual nutrients, how true is that when it comes to somebody saying, well, you're not eating enough vitamin E, therefore your skin isn't going to be plump and look lifted and hydrated.

59:20it. So there are deficiencies that will show up in your skin. So say iron deficiency might get dry, itchy skin, low vitamin D is linked to lots of different skin conditions actually. But picking out those nutrients doesn't automatically give you better skin if you're actually generally quite healthy. You don't need to supplement with specific things to improve the health of your skin. I really feel that actually you should be getting it from the food that you're eating and you might supplementing all the time. It should be getting your diet right and then supplementing as you need it. I love that as well, because what you're recommending to people, as Rhi was just saying, it's like not particularly expensive.

1:00:00It's just normal, normal foods that are delicious and easy to cook simple meals with every day. And if we look beyond our diet, how much do our other lifestyle factors play in? So what we eat is really important, but do we see stress, hydration, in sleep. Do we see that showing up in our skin as well? Absolutely. So sleep deprivation can worsen itching from eczema. It can impair your skin barrier. So it actually has measurable effects on the skin. Keeping hydrated, you can see more fine lines and wrinkles if you're not fully hydrated. So yeah, all of those things are super important for skin health.

1:00:36And it's not sort of just my word for it. Actually, there's science that backs it up. There's science that backs up. If you eat more brightly colored fruits and vegetables, you will eventually age better and have less fine lines and wrinkles in the long term. Isn't that really amazing? So it's actually, there's good research that backs up that actually looking after your overall health is very important for the health of your skin. Not to be negative, but on the flip side, things like alcohol, do we see that or potentially over consumption of ultra processed foods? Do we see, and I'm not demonizing having a margarita, love it, but like a consistent, more excessive consumption of alcohol foods like ultra processed foods loads and loads and loads of sugar does that have a negative impact so um excess alcohol consumption is linked with flares of skin conditions and also accelerated aging particularly the upper part of the face so i always encourage people you know enjoy your wine enjoy your margarita but moderate it do you know when you said the upper part of the face do you mean so people that drink around their eyes and their forehead.

1:01:40Yes, exactly. It's an American study. And they actually found that the upper part of the face had more fine lines and wrinkle in people who are drinking more than what they are recommended to. Yeah. And of course, does that come out differently with your different genetic makeups? Have you got different skin colors, textures? Yes. So some people do age better. Yeah, exactly. Of course, some people, you know, they will, they can get away with sort of lifestyle habits a bit more easily. But you know, we talk about general trends. And the general trend is you know alcohol isn't the best for skin aging and general skin health and you know if you've got eczema rosacea psoriasis eczema is you know all of those things can flare with alcohol and what about food because i think as well as reading like eight things that will change your skin it's sometimes it's the flip side of like trying to say never eat these things ever again is there any truth in that no so i think you you've got to balance it all i mean there has been some recent research that showed that ultra processed food were linked with more severe psoriasis, but that is people who are really consuming a lot of it.

1:02:38So it is part of everybody's diet. You don't need to demonize it, but you do want to be eating fresh, healthy, homemade meals where possible. So there'll be lots of people listening to this that at home experience severe acne or it's something they've had their whole lives. They've had to go on various medications. Is there any advice for listeners out there that are going through that or they've been on, is it Roacatine that some people take? Yeah, it's a strong medication for acne. so as I said in the beginning skin conditions are multifactorial and for some people you know a lot of it is driven by genetics and even if their diet is so good they're still going to have acne they're still going to have rosacea or psoriasis or eczema and I see so many people who've tried to cut lots of food out of their diet and actually really that isn't the way to cure in inverted commas any skin condition you've got to if you've got a good balanced diet you're meeting your nutritional needs we need to go in with some effective medical treatments a really good skincare routine.

1:03:34There are so many options that you shouldn't sit at home and suffer trying to sort of make your diet smaller and smaller in order to get results. That's a very empowering statement. So thank you for sharing that because I think that because it's such a hot topic skin, it almost feels like it's your fault. And I think it's really empowering to know. I think it's a big part of this show for us is to just showing, be that suffering with some skin challenges, be that anxiety, et cetera. These feelings are so normal and it's so normal, life ebbs and flows and there's nothing wrong with you or what you're doing.

1:04:06And I think it's quite easy to feel like that in the online world where we're just so bombarded with other people's lives. So much of it's not even true. It's certainly an augmented reality. And so much self-blame around food as well, isn't there? Oh my goodness, I ate this dark chocolate last night. That must be why I have a breakout the next day. You cannot go down that route. You know, there are people who'll be eating, you know, sweets and fizzy, sugary fizzy drinks all day and not have one pimple. So you can't underestimate what genetics is doing. So, so true. When it comes to supplements, again, that's something that we see people talking about a lot, collagen in particular, or beauty gummies, for example.

1:04:47What is your view? I know you said earlier, your kind of first port of call for everybody is thinking about that balanced diet. Do you believe in all these various different supplements? So I think there's some really important supplements. Vitamin D, I think, is essential. We don't get enough. We need it for our skin barrier to work properly and general health of our skin. So definitely your vitamin D. Some people will need it only through the winter months. Some people that I see in the clinic, if you've got a skin condition and you're covered up, you know, you need it all year. I think omega-3, if you're not able to get it through your diet, I have some people who are allergic to the foods that contain omega-3.

1:05:23or they just don't find them very palatable. So then I think an omega-3 supplement is really good. I think women can run low on iron very easily because of our menstrual cycles, pregnancy, breastfeeding, all of those things just kind of seep the iron out of our diet. And sometimes it's difficult to top it up just through food alone. And sometimes iron supplements are really good to think about as well, especially for hair, really important for hair. Can I ask, and before we go on to collagen and the big ones that I know that everyone's desperate to hear, but you're quite a rare health professional in the sense that you're a qualified registered nutritionist and you're a dermatologist so you've got the combined approach which I absolutely adore and when you mention supplements it's obviously important isn't it to say don't just go out and suddenly take a high dose iron supplement because that could be quite detrimental.

1:06:11So I work off the blood test so if someone has come in with symptoms of low iron like feeling really tired they're losing their hair, their skin is dry and their skin might be itchy, I'm always going to check the iron and then I'm going to replace it depending on what I'm seeing. So it is important to get those things tested. Yeah. And then can you give us, so Ella and I have been itching about it. I mean, look, we're 30s now. I think, I feel like when you hit your 30s, you're just bombarded with this kind of aging messaging. It's everywhere. It's at the school pickup, it's in every algorithm, collagen for aging.

1:06:45I know there's some research for joints. What about aging? So, I mean, if you, for prevention of aging, number one is sunscreen. I mean, that is going to trump everything else. So good diet, good skincare routine and sunscreen. Everything else on top of that is a little bit of extra. You can do a little bit of collagen if you want to and try it and see if you see an improvement. Some people really do notice hair and nails grow more quickly if they're taking collagen supplements, but you have to remember to look at the source of that collagen and, you know, what is the original source of it. And you have to think about whether that's something that you're happy with.

1:07:19I think there are lots of other things that you could do on top of collagen. You know, if you're getting adequate protein, you know, that is what is making the collagen in your skin. And most of us actually don't need to supplement on top of that. Well, that will save everyone a lot of money, which is absolutely brilliant news. Before we go on to our final question, I actually wonder, we keep talking about aging and what's your kind of view on this the term anti-aging or how do you describe it because again I think everything about this show is we want people to leave feeling empowered and inspired and comfortable in themselves and as we're talking about today so much of what in the case of skin but in everything we talk about it's actually about these simple things it's sleep it's stress management it's a generally balanced diet it's a bit of exercise it's it's quite simple tools but it feels like we're trying to make also complicated and aging feels like one of those things when we're all trying to sort of Benjamin Button ourselves and there's a lot of press out there of what is a 30 year old even meant to look like now and it feels like we sort of lost a semblance of perspective on aging and we're trying to do the impossible what's your view on that?

1:08:25So I mean I really have a holistic view on aging I have a patient who inspires me every time I see her she's in her 80s she's still working She does yoga every day. She's got loads of wrinkles, but she is just amazing. She is full of energy. She tells me what she eats, super healthy, loves her fruits, vegetables. She's always cooking. And she jumps up the stairs to her appointment. And I think, isn't that how we all want to age? We want to feel good. We want to be flexible. We want to feel positive. How our skin looks, yeah, it makes us feel good. But I don't think we should be fighting every line and wrinkle.

1:08:58Because sometimes when you go down the route of just trying to fix everything on the outside and you don't think about how you feel on the inside, there can be a real disconnect. You might look, in inverted commas, like a 25-year-old, but you don't feel great. You don't like what you see in the mirror. You're tired. You need to look at the whole thing. Have you seen lots of people, have you have patients come to your clinic and your practice that have gone too far with that sort of thing? And then you've had to give them advice to sort of, I don't know, dull it down a little bit in terms of all the measures that people take for anti-aging?

1:09:34I think people are doing it anyway, actually. I think the general trend is to go a little bit more natural. And look, if you want to do a little bit of treatments here and there, why not? But make sure that you're doing everything else. There's no point doing all of those things if you're not using sunscreen and have got a balanced diet you need to do the groundwork for your general health and well-being as well as taking care of your skin from the outside so I mean each to their own if you want if those things make you feel good great but think of it all together don't just think of you know if I fix this wrinkle I'm going to be happy because chances are you might not be but also as you're saying it's also normal to have a wrinkle there's nothing strange about us oh absolutely yes yeah yeah yeah good and we just need to drink lots of water eat a balanced diet and that will be the most powerful thing we can do every single day and you feel good too yeah and what about things that we see again a lot at the moment in the press and online led lights face sculpting devices a lot of these at home solutions i quite like led lights actually i think red light's quite good i have one myself and i think it's been effective for me and i have patients in the clinic who really enjoy using them as well I think it's quite an easy relaxing thing to do at home it doesn't work for everybody you'd have to try it to know if it's going to help for your skin but it's quite a nice easy non-invasive treatment to have in terms of microcurrent devices they do give a lifting effect but it's not permanent but they do give a little bit of a lift when you use it what about having these massages that lift your face because I had one of these treatments and I could see a difference I could see a difference in my face.

1:11:14I've shared it online and had so many people say, oh my goodness. But realistically, should we be working out the muscles on our face every single morning? Is that a beneficial thing to do? Massage is amazing for skin health. Amazing. And it's, I think it originates in Japan, doesn't it? That amazing lifting facial massage technique. And it is fantastic because it boosts collagen. So it is a natural way to boost the collagen in your skin. So you can do it at home. You don't always have to go and have someone do it. It's so good to have someone do it because you'll see some great results and learn how to do it.

1:11:47But you can definitely do it yourself at home. So even just two minutes at home with a guashar or one of those different tools or even just your hands worth doing every morning if you can. Yeah, it's worth doing. I love it. So it sounds like our take homes are give yourself a couple of minutes massage in the morning if you can. LED lights definitely could be interesting to explore. but the big thing to focus on is a balanced diet with your GLOW acronym which sounds like a very simple thing for people to follow really focus on hydration on sleep on looking after yourself but also remembering that it's completely normal to get spots it's completely normal to get wrinkles and just embrace that like holistic view of the way that we age that it's fixing as you said which I just love fixing one wrinkle won't fix all our anxiety is about getting older and yeah so obviously all of those things super important but if you're struggling if you've got a skin condition it's really getting you down go and see someone we have so many different ways to tackle it nowadays and a qualified person of course you have to check thank you Vivi thank you

1:12:52thank you guys so much for listening today it was a jam-packed episode I think it probably could have been eight times longer it's just there's so much to get into and there's one thing I just wanted to say before we close, which is that you are so welcome, in fact, encouraged to disagree with us. This is not us saying that we have all of the answers or we know everything. These are our thoughts. These are our opinions because these topics are so topical. They're so involved and prominent in all of our lives. And they dictate so many of the conversations we're having, the thoughts we're having, the things that we consume.

1:13:27I don't mean just what we eat and drink. I mean, what we watch, what we listen to, what we read. And so we feel they're really important to talk about. You're not going to agree with us on everything. We don't want this to be something where you think we're preaching at you. We are not. We just want to talk about it, partly because we're obsessed, as I keep saying, but partly because it matters. How we live our lives matters. What we eat matters, how we move our bodies, how we sleep matters. And we want to remind you of that, but not in a way where you think that it's our way or the highway, because it's not.

1:13:54And as that podcast I recommended at the beginning said, it is about taking all the advice all the ideas and then making it work for your life and we don't know your life only you know your life so be inspired by things you read be curious but take it all and be intuitive to yourself and your own body your own life your own circumstances exactly you are unique and there's no judgment at all so we will see you all next monday for more inspiration practical tips hopefully my cheer putting honestly no don't worry you don't have to do that i won't forget don't don't Until then, take care of yourself and don't forget, small steps lead to big changes.

1:14:31And if you do like it, please share it, review it, subscribe. We would appreciate it more than anything.

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