Reclaiming Our Attention, Cancer-Linked Ingredients & Fermented Foods

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0:32Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your twice weekly now dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are both here as your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know that it can be so overwhelming and confusing. And that's why we've created this podcast to cut through the noise and make all the healthier living simple, fun and personal. We are exactly. And we love being here. So hi, guys. Welcome. What have we got coming up in today's show today? Another big, fantastic show to kickstart your Monday. We have got why our attention span feels under pressure, the habits that are quietly affecting focus and memory, and some new research on cancer linked food additives, then simple swaps to reduce long term exposure, and why fermented foods keep showing up in the science, which I know I can't wait to delve into.

1:27and then our final point today is easy ways to add in those fermented foods to everyday life

1:39Rhi before we get into it all how are you? I'm good Ella I was just saying to Ella before we went on air today that I just need to go to bed earlier I realised that I burn out I know we've had this discussion quite a bit and Ella's been really open about her journey but I'm following her trajectory in not a healthy way so I was like I'm not gonna do it and I messaged her last week and I was like I am not good so yeah early night seller how about you I am really good I'm gonna apologize we are recording remotely today because I have to go to the girls school later because they're both doing a poetry reading they're all learning poems I think it's ahead of world book day and anyways which is very cute um but my house is like 96 97 building site like literally every single room is a building site apart from my bedroom so i'm currently back in bed hunkering down but if you hear banging drilling welcome to my life we will keep calm carry on oh keep calm do you know that's the name of my friend carrie ellis's podcast but she does keep calm and carry on love it love a good play on words I know any musical theater buffs that's good ones tune into I think she did it in lockdown so Ella I've had a really crazy busy week because I did that big talk in parliament and it's Siri I'm watching her on the screen and she's about to be like and then you know I made some like parmesan parsnips or something which obviously we have a lot of love for the parmesan parsnips but let's not just like easy breezy gloss over speech in parliament tell us about it.

3:13What were we talking about? How did it go? I'll do the deep dive then. So I was essentially invited to speak to raise the awareness of fiber because they knew my book, The Fiber Formula was coming out. I felt very, very grateful. And there was some new data, actually a new national survey that was commissioned by the brand Warbitons because full disclosure, I did some work on a fiber loaf that they were working on. But the study was conducted by YouGov and they do lots of different polls, you know, all the different statistics we each year. It's very interesting, very helpful. Even the MPs that were there, we all sort of gathered a consensus that we know that the online noise is not helpful for nutrition messaging in the public health space.

3:53There was a lot of talk about how the protein hype has detracted and created a lot of unnecessary noise from actually our healthy diets. And also it's contributed to the ultra-processed food space, as Ella knows. I mean, you can pump it into everything. You can pump it into literally anything. And it's so, I just find the whole thing, oh, so frustrating. It's like, obviously, we talked about this last week, there's been so much in the news at the moment about the rise in bowel cancer, and why, and this kind of urgent need to get to the bottom of why we're seeing such huge rises in rates of diagnosis of bowel cancer versus other cancers, what's going on beneath it.

4:33and you hear people talking all the time there's researcher after scientist after professor and oncologist research and they're talking about the importance of our diets but this sort of cancer in particular and low fiber diets being so problematic for it and then you have health and wellness people promoting basically eating no fiber and just having like a carnivore diet and look I'm not here saying don't eat any meat I'm not here saying they're a vegetarian that's completely an individual decision totally your prerogative but we all need a plant-rich diet and this whole kind of don't eat any beans pulses fruit sweet potatoes bananas bananas are bad for you they'll give you a blood sugar spike i mean honestly i'm in a kind of straightforward mood today it's ridiculous absolutely ridiculous case in point it's very ridiculous when you remove yourself as well from the online world.

5:29And I'm in an environment like Parliament, and I'm speaking on a podium, and I've got a room full of what I know is very important people listening and huge, you know, manufacturers and industry that are all agreeing. What I found so refreshing, Ella, is that obviously, I got up there kind of did a little heart on sleeve speech and said, my whole career, I've never had to single out a nutrient before ever. But you know, the stats are we are one of the lowest countries in the world, the world, everybody with fibre intake. And that's why I'm writing this book. And that's why I'm here, because I'm trying to cut through that noise.

6:01But I'll give you some of the stats. The wider picture is quite worrying. So basically, the YouGov survey said that only 5 % of people believe that the government is actually genuinely interested in their health. And I thought that was quite interesting, because when asked what would make it easier for everybody, and I'd love to know what you think on the wellness scoop. And it's actually something that, you know, I write about the book, but also I discuss in this little group I've got on Instagram now, the Unfiltered Group, people said they want clearer labeling on packets. They want lower cost food and better education.

6:35All of the things that we talk about all the time that I think should just be there. Common sense. I totally, totally, totally agree. No, look, it's great that we're talking about it. I think that's, that is inherently the huge positive here. And we just need to keep shouting about. Well, there's no reference intake, Ella, on the front of the pack for fibre. So what's so interesting is, you know, on the front of the pack, you can put traffic lights for fat, salt, sugar, rightly so, of course. Do you? I think they're nonsense. Well, I mean, red and orange, to us, they're nonsense, but they're voluntary.

7:12And for some people, they genuinely wouldn't know there was a lot of salt, I think, in their soup. I'm with you on salt. I think the others though first of all they're voluntary and almost no one puts them on the front yeah but second of all they're quite arbitrary like you know sugar-free green jelly which has got no nutritional profile whatsoever would be all green traffic lights like go ahead and almonds have got a big fat red on them because of the fat intake so I don't know I think either you've got to use something on mass and it should be compulsory because otherwise how do you navigate it and it feels redundant arbitrary and maybe a little bit outdated i wonder what you think um when you i've done all of the ones in europe so what they use in italy they've got like a battery and it's got no colors on it and it's how full the battery is with nutrition or how small the battery is and then other countries yeah how cool is that so many different countries have different ways of measuring things and i think we all just need to kind of agree on one thing but essentially, we know 96 % of us don't get enough.

8:17We know that 20 % of people don't know which foods contain fiber. It's quite staggering when you think about it. But the biggest thing that was raised to me was that the biggest gap is not in the younger generation. So actually, Gen Z, they're listening, I really hope you are. You already apparently are quite clued up. You know, you're probably following these Fibremax trends, you know. The problem is, it's the generation that have kids and beyond that are educating younger people that aren't clued up on fiber. And that's what's making this fiber gap even larger. The fact that our generation L are essentially and above are the ones here that these stats relate to.

8:54And only 7 % of parents in their mid thirties know that 30 grams a day is a target. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Although the 30 grams a day I still feel like for most people is super arbitrary, you know, which is why I know it hasn't worked 99 % of us know about it and one in five of us do it when it comes to our five a day but like something about 30 plants a week or five a day feels so tangible whereas 30 grams of fiber a day as you go around your day knowing what you're eating that's it's it's tricky isn't it but I think to me the most interesting point is that 80 % of people think that fiber is only about digestion because I think it's true you do think it's about your bowel habits and And maybe you have really regular bowel habits.

9:38So you're like, well, I don't need any more fiber. I'm good. Or I'll just add a supplement that's not got any diversity for gut microbes. And then I'll just make sure I poo a lot. That's all people really refer as. Yeah. Understanding that actually fiber is, yes, it's brilliant for keeping you regular. And that's really important. But it's so much more than that. And I think, again, that emphasis to me certainly really helps inspire. OK, no, I am going to make an effort. I don't know. I was making dinner last night and we'd been out at a birthday party all day. And like the kids had literally just eaten snacky, picnic-y birthday party food all day.

10:13And I was like, okay, we need to have a proper dinner. And I was looking at it and I was thinking, oh, I'm on 28 plants this week. Okay, let's have, because I'm really working on my gut. So I'm writing it down and playing my fun game. She's actually trying lots of new foods. She would normally, Ella would normally not have. So I'm really impressed. I'm really trying to branch out. And anyway, I was about to say, It's really fun. I'm enjoying it. But anyway, with the kids last night, I was like, right, no, let's make sure we sit down and let's have a really proper dinner. And let's include, you know, I put in the base, it's just a pesto pasta, but I did the base was courgettes, leeks, garlic, shallots, chickpeas, lots of lemon, and then a pesto, which was half cashew nuts, half pine nuts.

10:53So suddenly you've got like eight different plants in there with pasta, you know, super, super straightforward. Took me less than 15 minutes. And obviously the kids don't know that there's something like a leak in there my kids do not go around like I love leaks oh my god same but I think leaks are really easy if you blitz them up quite small as well like onions you know in your little blender thing I use leaks loads with onions and garlic as the base of I know I did a mushroom lasagna on the weekend again I use those in the in the base and I'll do the same with the pasta or something there yeah they're really good um for your digestion anyway delicious but as I said I think it's that thing of knowing okay no actually what we put in to our gut is how we feed our microbiome and that's so critical for health so it's worth just making the effort to try adding in one new vegetable one new bean legume nut seed whatever it is not falling victim to i mean we could go off on this we will talk about this another time but the supplement industry with fiber because we know it's coming and it's going i think it's going to be a humongous boom we're already seeing a few of them crop up and it's it's not a magic bullet everybody but it was good hopefully people will have listened fiber isn't old-fashioned anymore ella and you know it is it's your whole diet everyone but fiber is just eating more plants which is what we all need to do exactly and you know where you just said about fiber supplements i think one thing that's worth doing is you've talked about it before re but if what you are trying to do is get more diversity in but you've got lots going on i do think that kind of um you call it a diversity jar yeah it is a really great idea you can make up maybe you have two different versions like a breakfast version sprinkles yeah and a savory version you know in the breakfast version like i really try and include you know flaxseed hemp seeds chia seeds for example even just in things like smoothies you don't taste them there's such a nutrition boost and then you could do you know roast some nuts some seeds and you can do a whole kind of smorgasbord or whatever you've got sunflower seeds pumpkin seeds almonds walnuts anything and you could add a bit of soy sauce or chili if you want to add a bit more flavor roast them for 10 minutes or so let it cool pop them in a jar and sprinkle it on salads on soups it's so easy and in between the two you've probably got like 10 different plants I love it that you're just chucking on as I said like porridge smoothies salads soups it's so easy do you know what I've also been doing which is not It's not a diversity jar, but I got addicted to buying those packs of chocolate frozen fruit.

13:18So I just make it now. I put it up on Instagram the other day and I just add dark chocolate to frozen fruit. Oh, it's just so good. It's just so delicious. And I feel let's just, should we just move on to our headlines that matter today? Parliament's done. We've covered all of that. Yes. Okay, perfect. Let's dive right into it. I only had really lowbrow things to say about my week, like how I started watching. Tell me. I know really no one needs to hear about this. I was going to tell you, I started watching The Summer I Turned Pretty. Oh, I tried. I couldn't get into it. Oh, my God. I'm hooked.

13:47But I feel like a teenager. I'm like, I'm not sure this is really designed for me. I'm absolutely hooked. And also, you were sad to watch Bridgerton. I binged those four episodes. It was my favorite Bridgerton so far. And, you know, you said you'd finished The Night Manager the other week. I hadn't seen the last bit. I could not watch that ending. I was absolutely devastated. Oh, my God. It was intense, wasn't it? Traumatizing. I stayed up till like one in the morning finishing Bridgerton. I was so hooked. And now I'm like on countdown to the 26th of February when the next break comes out. You know, I made our Bridgerton avatar things.

14:23Yeah, I really watched that on me yesterday. Picture of us as Bridgerton. It was very complimentary. I thought so. I quite liked it. Anyway, I told you I only had lowbrow things to say. Right, the health headlines that matter. What is of importance this week? It's not the summer I turn pretty or Bridgerton. It is, in fact, how to stay focused when you're constantly distracted. Our ability to concentrate is declining. And here is what we can do to sharpen our brains. That's it. Ella was looking and this was in the Times. And I feel like this really called out to you, Ella, because obviously we know that Ella's doing an amazing job and inspiring us all to kind of cut back on the amount of screen time that we actually embark upon.

15:03When it comes to social media, I'm not talking about watching a film or a movie. I mean, just scrolling on your phone. So the latest research and reporting shows essentially that we are not concentrating at all. The article highlighted how common it is now to struggle for more than a few minutes at a time. We can't even concentrate on one task without thinking, oh, I need to pick up my phone. So this isn't framed as a personal, you know, failing from us. We're all trying our best, but it's a predictable outcome of daily habits like scrolling, multitasking, irregular sleep, all the things that I think all of us, Ella, are really facing right now that really puts impact on our brain, our memory.

15:41It's affecting us. It really is. And you know what? Just like I think it's really exciting that fiber is becoming a really prevalent topic and we're really talking about the importance of our diet in that sense. And that's becoming very widespread. It's in lots of places. How much it gets picked up, I guess, is the big question, but it's definitely widely talked about. But I think the same is happening with our tech world. I also feel like when I'm looking for headlines and when I'm reading the news or podcasts, there is so much emphasis on this at the moment. There's actually, I will bring more info to it next week.

16:15There's actually about to be a very big case against a lot of the social media platforms, you know, meta that was heralded as maybe this is like the tobacco moment. You know, maybe this is basically saying you are knowingly inflicting harm on young people. Super interesting. Anyway, as a result of there being so much conversation around our screens and the impact they're having, I feel like it's brilliant for cultivating awareness. And I think, as you said, one of the things that to me is so important in all of this is it's the same with our health. Like we live in a very, very difficult, as we know, food landscape where there's just kind of rubbish essentially available literally everywhere.

16:53and eating well means like really making a discerning effort to do something a little bit different to the status quo. And to be honest, technology is not really any different. You know, if you decide to spend much less time on it, that's actually kind of counterculture to some extent. So I just think it's really important to show like if you're struggling with your attention, you know, potentially to some extent with your mood, it's really common and it's really normal and it's super affected by these habits. And that's why I quite like these articles because I think it really highlights that there is so much information behind all of this.

17:28It's not, you're not doing it wrong because you're struggling to focus. Yeah. And what Ella's just said, actually, so it is crucial because what we now know is that irregular sleep patterns reduce the brain's ability to clear metabolic waste overnight. And that directly affects our attention and memory the next day. And then if we're consuming more, you know, social media, more content, that's going to do more harm, just like drinking alcohol and going above the limits, you know, that interferes with nutrient absorption. So what this is actually doing, it could be impacting our memory, Ella, you know, short term memory being impaired and our concentration and long term impact too.

18:03So what the article said is that attention is the gateway to memory. And if we don't fully attend to information, we can't properly store it or retrieve it later. And it makes sense because I still, if I have a lecture or an exam, I like to write things down or read it back to myself for it to be imprinted in my memory. Whereas what we're doing today is just absorbing so much rapid scrolling, which fragments our attention and weakens our working memory. We need to set limits on scrolling time. We need short, intentional phone use that's less disruptive than frequent check-in. That's what the evidence says that we have to do to support our health alley.

18:42I think they've listed off a lot of things here, which I know we discuss. And you know they've shown that even just having your phone nearby even if it's upside down on the table is clinically proven to still be distracting even if it's phased out even if it's on silent and this is what the article talked about in a really interesting way in terms of why so many of us then find it hard to really focus is because our brains just aren't meant to switch really rapidly between different tasks like check a whatsapp write half an email do a quick scroll finish the email our brains just aren't meant to jump around like that and so yeah as I said if you're struggling to concentrate or feeling a bit scatty just know that it's not you you're not alone I think this is absolutely everybody and something that could help you know learning new skills or challenging yourself to do something different every single day even to challenge yourself to watch that Bridgerton series without your phone.

19:42That is hard. I mean, just sitting down without it next to you, Ella, that's a challenge. It really is. I'm trying really hard on that at the moment. But I have to say, I feel like I'm enjoying, not to be too holier than thou, but I do feel like I'm enjoying it more because I get more of the idiosyncrasies of the show, for example, that I maybe missed before. Okay, so that was brief, but just to, I think, an important reminder, first of all, that this conversation is everywhere, which I think is inherently really positive. And second of all, that you are not alone. There's nothing wrong with you.

20:11This is completely normal. And just trying to find strategies that support you individually to kind of have a better focus is probably about less screen time.

20:25You all know me. I'm about adding more in, not cutting things out, no fads, no diets, just evidence and transparency. And right now in the UK, everyone, 96 % of us, that's 96 % are not getting enough fiber. It's one of the lowest figures in the world and I couldn't ignore it. So we've spent years obsessing over protein and other trends and I'm delighted to share that after a year in the making, my new book, The Fiber Formula, is available to pre-order. I have answered every question from gut health and energy, cancers and heart disease to aging skin longevity and even microplastics. Built on over a decade of clinical research it gives you my fibre formula.

21:1130 grams of fibre a day, 30 different plants a week, 30 chews and 30 minute meals plus 60 delicious minimally processed recipes to make it doable. I've done the hard work so the protein, fibre and plant points are all laid out for you. I'm a small fish in a very big murky pond of wellness books and so your pre-orders really do matter and they help my message reach more people if you head to the link in the show notes or any bookstore or on Amazon where you can get 15 % off and a lowest price pre-order guarantee headline two is where we want to spend a lot of time today yeah it was world cancer day last week and I think that's why there were so many of them Ella yeah and look this is actually it's funny Rhi and I were swapping messages last week when we were looking at the scripts for this week and the headlines we wanted to cover in the briefs.

22:04And you know, Rhi and anyone who's listened to this from the get go that I haven't had like a huge amount of reservation talking about many things and the kind of quite opinionated probably. And this was the first thing that I'm like, oh my god I'm nervous to talk about this just because we'll get into it but it it is I don't want to say a watershed moment but it is one of those moments to think like we have got to get rid of these ingredients from our lives and it's extraordinary anyway read you want to dive into what's going on here yeah I want to give a bit of context behind the particular article so the article had one of those awful headlines that I actually contributed to this article but I didn't obviously know.

22:50I was asked to say what food is linked to cancer as it was World Cancer Day and I said, well, we know red and processed meats like we've discussed. I just gave the evidence and then the article came out and it said seven food swaps that could lower your cancer risk. And this was in the Telegraph. Yeah. So it essentially implies that if you eat these seven foods, you're basically increasing your risk of cancer every single day. And as with everything, there are underlying elements of truth like we've discussed before to make a headline get this far but it completely I feel these articles spread fear Ella like you've said and we were both very hesitant to discuss it because I know we both believe our food industry does need to change but equally we don't want to fear anyone so I've got actually I got a lovely rounded voice note that I'll share in a minute from a registered dietitian called Sophie Medlin who runs City Dietitians and I feel that she's always very well placed to put kind of a voice of reason on this.

23:47But to give you a bit of background, Ella. So essentially, there's a very new and large study from France published in the BMJ that reports that people who consume higher amounts of certain food preservatives may face a slightly increased risk of developing cancer. Now, these additives are widely used in industrial processed foods and drinks. They extend the shelf life. And early this year, January 2026, these two large studies analysed data from more than 100 ,000 adults. Large study, everybody enrolled in the French NutriNet Santé study using detailed dietary and health information. It was collected between 2009 to 2023.

24:25So it's quite a long space of time. And the findings were published in Nature Communications and the BMJ. And they examined the associations between the preservative intake and then the risk, the risk, I'll highlight that word, of cancer and type 2 diabetes. Yeah. And look, it's a really interesting study. And I think as Rhi always says, this is not a moment to panic about, you know, one time consumption of anything. But this is about dietary patterns. And I think what we've had up until this point, generally speaking, is research on UPFs as a whole, whether, you know, our huge increase in consumption of UPFs is problematic in terms of various different disease risks.

25:06What this did, which is quite different, is that instead of analyzing UPFs as a single category, they looked at 17 different preservatives as individuals. And I think the important thing to say, actually, is reassurance is overall what they found was preservative intake was not necessarily associated with cancer risk. And 11 of the 17 preservatives showed no link with cancer incidence, but six of the preservatives were associated with a higher incidence of overall cancer, including breast and prostate cancer. And I think that to me is really interesting because this is so important. Like we've talked so much on this show and I know there's so much about this, that the kind of broad brush of UPFs can be problematic where you're labeling absolutely any UPF as one thing in terms of, you know, don't eat any of them.

25:58And it's like, no, there is a continuum here. And the more information we can get, the better we can regulate the food industry, the better we can make food choices. We don't need to be really fearful of everything, but it's good to have this knowledge. And do more studies now on those six that have been found. Exactly. And what could we replace them with in the food industry? What's really going on with those six. So yeah, 11 of the 17 preservatives, just to be clear, not shown to link to cancer incidents. Six of them were, and those included potassium sorbate, potassium metabisulfite, sodium nitrite, potassium nitrate, acetic acid, and sodium ethereotroate.

26:39How do you say that one, Ray? Arethabate, I think. And so unsurprisingly, the authors of this study are suggesting these findings warrant a re-evaluation of regulation when it comes to using these additives. Obviously, as Ru said, it also prompts a need for much more investigation into these six in particular. For anyone listening that feels worried, and look, this is why I was messaging Ru last week, the more I read about these studies, the more I read what the authors were saying, it's hard not to feel fearful. Like it is, you know, because these are in super common things like ketchup. Kids foods, Ella.

27:16You know, and as I said, just to be super clear, this is not about having a really nourishing diet. And then on occasion, you know, at a party, you enjoy those foods. It's just not about that. It's about really the regular consumption of this combined with the low intake of the foods that we know are so important for our health. Just so you know, the sodium nitrite and potassium nitrate, those are widely used in cured and processed meat. Potassium sorbate is found in foods like sometimes cheese or yogurt, wine, fruit juices, baked goods. Potassium metabisulfite is commonly used in alcoholic drinks and some dried fruit.

27:52Acetic acid is present in pickled vegetables, sauces and dressings. And sodium, and I'm going to need you to say it again. Arethabate? Yeah, can be used in processed poultry and cured meats. Now, that doesn't mean that all of those foods always contain these ingredients. That's just the more commonplace that you would find them. And they also increased risk of type 2 diabetes, just to add as well. And that was in a study, a companion study in Nature Communications. So it's just important to note that compared with the lower levels of consumption, the risk was 47 % higher for total preservatives, 49 % higher for non-antioxidant preservatives and 40 % higher for antioxidant additives.

28:31So what I'm essentially saying is of the 17 preservatives analyzed, the 12 were associated also with increased diabetes risk. And we're not talking low number increases. We're talking nearly half, you know, 50 % increases in most ways. And of course, when you've got a chronic condition like type 2 diabetes, other areas of your body are also impacted too. and you know several of the preservatives that were linked to higher risk are already known from experimental studies to play a role as well negatively with our immune system our inflammatory responses our metabolic pathways even I think damage with DNA and it's long-term exposure and its cumulative effect of having these preservatives and it's kind of in a very balanced way like I know Sophie Sophie Medlin gives us a lovely overview in her contribution today as well but We don't want to fear here.