Secrets of the food industry, Plant Protein & Healthy Ice Cream

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1:03Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration and as always we're both here as your host today. I'm Ella Mills and I'm Rhiannon Lambert and today we have a fantastic episode full of the wonderful questions that you are sending in to us so let's go. Coming up in today's show we're going to talk a little bit about finding ability to be a little more present, a bit about starting off with these kind of more mindfulness type practices, the truth about mycoprotein and all these kind of alternative plant proteins, getting in diversity on a budget, some niche things like the benefits of blackcurrant and gooseberries.

1:41We're going to talk about our favourite, kind of slightly better kind of UPF-wise ice creams for summer and so much else. So yeah, I'm very excited to dive into this. But Rhi, first of all, how are you? do you know what Ella I am actually very very good and I have some good recommendations for us yes hit us up okay got my notepad at the ready and when I say good recommendations I have one I've just realized I wrote down I had so many things to offer this week I actually had my son's fourth birthday party at the weekend everything has been very very busy as you know what it's like hosting parties and events um we have scaffolding at the house everything is all go go go go i think i'm just trying to cram everything in before obviously i have a baby and um there's all of that subliminal pressure i think i'm managing so instead of making my hot honey sauce now it's become a bit of a thing i don't know if it's a pregnancy thing but there's this brand that sells it that's really lovely called maimai but maimai like a kind of hawaiian mei tell me about hot honey sauce what what are the component parts what the one you were making what was in it what are we putting it on because i'm obsessed with hot honey so need the inspo i was just using all the honey this is the issue is that my eldest loves honey and i was using the honey and then heating it and adding the chili flakes and it's just i mean it's not a long process it's very quick actually oh you're making your own hot honey yes yes consistently and then the problem is i was using all the honey so i decided to get a separate jar of already made hot honey sauce and this amazing company my my do it and it's they actually have a whole range of incredible sauces actually which look really delicious which you should definitely check out i haven't tried that brand so i'm going to try that brand i've been using the wilderbee one oh my gosh it's so good wilderbee hot honey um i actually got their sriracha version at the weekend she's sriracha obsessed ella i'm like a spice fanatic i don't know i just i like hot things anyways i never used to it's definitely this pregnancy and I never had it in the other two pregnancies.

3:47So this is obviously a new thing for me. But I wanted to give a little shout out to my amazing mum network because I've been doing and I'm sure there's loads of you listening, single mums and you do it all yourself and you are amazing. But I have needed to lean on my network a lot and will be doing throughout the summer for various things. And I think it just goes to show how important it is. You know that a village and now at school I feel like I have I have one where when I'm really stuck I can arrange for someone else to pick up my eldest and they're happy to feed them you know all those kind of things that I would obviously do for them too but I also feel bad I'm always the one that's usually pretty busy but the offer is always there when I can but I wanted to remind everyone that if you've got your friends just try and reach out just pop them a message because wow does time fly by and and you realise we haven't actually spoken in so long.

4:44I love that. It's a very important recommendation reminder. You've got a song on your rec, Ella. It's not a song, I'm sorry, but it's a movie with songs. This is the best film I have seen in so long. I remember it came out because I think it was up for some of the awards at the beginning of the year with Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson in called Song Sung Blues. Have you seen it, Rae? Oh, I really wanted to go because I, yeah, Yeah, obviously they're both musical theatre-esque style performers. So yeah, big fan. Oh my God, they're so amazing in it. Like actually Matt, what set my husband was like, I think that's the best thing I've ever seen Hugh Jackman in.

5:21And obviously he's such an amazing actor and been in so many things. It's honestly sublime. And I actually didn't realise this until the end. It's actually a true story. And I was reading loads on it. They've really stuck to the story. Like it's a really, really true story. They're very accurate to it. It's an extraordinary story. I thought when I saw like pictures of it and stuff that it was a rom-com not that I'm dissing I love a rom-com but it's not it's a sort of tale of hope over adversity with a lovely love story interwoven you will cry but it will be good tears like it will be so are you converted now to more musical films oh my god I love musical films yes oh like Les Mis or Wicked yeah La La Land oh my I've got obsessed.

6:06Mamma Mia. Amazing. I love that kind of thing. Also, I watched the very cheesy, but if you want to like a, oh, you know, like a good bad rom-com, which I think you can never have enough of. I watched the one. What's it called? One second. Find it. Well, I just tell everyone that I had been watching Desperate Housewives from the very beginning. I had no idea how dark and dramatic and evil it actually is. Like, twisted plots in Desperate Housewives. I haven't watched that since so long. I should rewatch that because I bet you're right. but it's actually so dystopian and weird yeah it really is okay go on tell me tell me office romance it's new on netflix with j-lo with j-lo and brett goldstein from ted lasso i'm obsessed with ted lasso so it's on my list to come back but anyway it is terrible but really good you know what i mean like you know you just need those like completely terrible movies they're so bad they're brilliant it's one of those i feel like j-lo just deserves recognition you know she always is that A-lister that misses out on the Oscar or that sort of thing.

7:07It's not an Oscar movie. It's not an Oscar movie, but I'm in awe of J-Lo. I think she's actually a very positive role model compared to what we were talking about on Monday where we were saying how there's not many role models that are positive. She's just strong and healthy and grafts consistently. Oh my God. Is she a babe in this film as well? I can imagine. Like she is out of control. She is so hot. she's just unreal anyways like a hot honey sauce she's yeah she's hot honey sauce anyway so yeah song sound blues is a fan like a genuinely one of the best things i have seen in so long office romance if you want to get it you've had a long day you like want to get into bed early with popcorn kind of thing 10 out of 10 also a quick question sorry everybody then we'll go on to your recommendations we've got a good one from audrey um the uh rivals show that we're obsessed with what happened it just stopped oh my god stopped someone listening might be able to answer why did they only give us half of it and then the other half is at the end of the year like did they have to stop filming like where is the rest of the show i had to google it and it said it's not coming out till november november i was devastated i waited a week till friday and then it wasn't there and i was like what also i have recommended a few times the show your friends and neighbors with Jon Hamm is one of my favourite shows also shrinking on Apple TV and The Morning Show has reasons maybe I'm not trying to plug Apple TV anyways the last episode of season two was one of the best bits of TV I've seen in so long really anyway I'm not trying to make you buy a subscription I'm just saying if you have Apple TV if you haven't seen your friends and neighbours the whole thing is so brilliant and I have a real crush on Jon Hamm but like the last episode of season two is gold okay there we go and on Spotify we're reading all of your recommendations and the emails that come in lots of you are saying off campus on spotify i need to watch off campus because i watched the summer i turned pretty i said i think on the show at the beginning of the year like binged it was obsessed and i feel like it's that kind of genre i don't think it's a watch with your husband kind of thing it's also not with your parents so after the birthday party at the weekend because yeah billy was like oh there's this show that everyone's talking about we made a joke so we got like 10 minutes in i said oh i think maybe maybe we'll watch this another time and it was just a naked guy in the shower you're suddenly like 12 again yeah can I give one last recommendation you know what again this is not an ad but I've just been buying loads of birthday presents on Etsy and can I just say as someone that is like hold my hands up some of you will get cross with me I know you will please don't I spend too much money on Amazon because it's just so convenient and it's so quick and I realize I need like something quite random and I can get it the next day anyways but i've like for birthday parties and birthday presents recently i'm like you know i don't know oftentimes what to get people and so i was like let's never know no let's get like cute personal stuff and i've got all anyway and it's such good value and you're supporting small businesses i've been buying like these i've got for the girls and their friend who were going on holiday with some of these matching sunglasses that have their names and little beads at the top and their flowers with matching glasses cases and so and they're so cute and it's really good value and it's all well it's largely small businesses anyways I just wanted to say because I kind of forgot about it and I then I was like this is really cool they're really nice things on Etsy I completely echo that such nice things and it's so fun like the personalization and things like that and just do it in advance because sometimes with the post I remember doing Christmas presents on there things can take a while so because obviously they're small businesses that you're working through with the platform also I realized that if you don't filter it by the UK it can take like 100 years to arrive for you.

10:47I definitely made that mistake once. I love Etsy. So Audrey said, I'm like Ella in that my mind moves at a million miles an hour and I can find it hard to stay present in conversations and activities, even on exchange when all I have to worry about is uni and not work or anything. I've tried meditation for about a year when I was in grade 12, but it felt more like a chore and it came to be something in my routine that I would dread. any tips on how to be more present practice mindfulness in other ways and it would be a super appreciated audrey thank you i'm guessing that's the states because grade 12 i don't know what grade 12 is what year group is that i don't know either i feel like it must be towards the end of school yeah let us know great question audrey look i think everyone's different first of all i mean sort of stems from a conversation on monday if you listened about optimization and this kind of tipping point in all of our routines if there's anything wellness related and i'm not talking something you must do for medical reason but something wellness related that feels like a chore like you dread it like you don't want to do it you want to put it off scrap it from your routine at least for now because ultimately like health and habits around health should generally speaking be quite fun quite enjoyable nice things in your day if they're not they're a drag so don't stress about it i would say there are so many different types of meditation there's so many different teachers there's so many different ways to approach it I wouldn't rule it out because you might find things that really suit you in the future obviously welcome to join me and try that out but I think trying to be more present is something that so many of us struggle with I was reading something recently that was like 46.7 % of the time our minds either in the past or the future like it's really normal to struggle to be like where you are right now and not to be kind of yeah thinking through all sorts of other events I would just say it's really simple things and like you know everyone's different that's why mindful colouring became such a big thing you know it's putting your phone away and it's just really trying to do one thing at once and it might be drawing there might be colouring it might be gardening it might be going for a phoneless walk and when you walk actually noticing like notice you how it feels when your feet hit the pavement like your heel going the top of your foot going can you like feel any wind can you see any trees rustling I don't mean in like a kind of way where you have to stop but just like actually notice like what can you see but on the radio listen to some nice music exactly and then just sit like sit in a nice chair and just listen to the music nothing else and I think that's that's the real thing is it's learning and it's really hard for most of us when we start doing these things because is we are so used to this overstimulation, which generally speaking isn't brilliant for us as a 24 seven impa, that it's hard to just sit and be.

13:38It's why most of us like scroll as we watch TV. You know, we do things while we walk. We find it hard to just stop. So findings you enjoy, as we said, like sit and listen to a piece of music, go for a walk and actually like notice what you see on your walk. Even just sit with a meal, no phone, no screens, no nothing. and just be like, just sit and eat your meal quietly. That is where I would start personally. Or yeah, as I said, it could be swimming, it could be drawing, it could be knitting, it could be like beading. It doesn't really matter what it is. Just do something that's quite calming and only that and see how that feels.

14:17I absolutely love that. That's such a good recommendation. And also, Ella, thank you, because I really personally struggle with that completely. and it's about time we spent a bit more time you could be listening to the podcast in fact Jenny on Spotify one of your comments was I know you're both so busy but we'd love a longer Thursday episode we had I'm just quickly reading them now we had lots of comments and maybe this can also help you and be a good starting point so our next recommendation is from Ava hey Ella and Rhi I just wanted to send an email in to say thank you for the wellness scoop and being yourselves on it.

14:54I used to follow so many of Ella's recipes of my mum when I was growing up. She's 21 now and my mum passed away two years ago and despite battling cancer for a decade, she was genuinely the picture of health in every way. Gosh, we are so sorry, Ava. That must be, God, it must be so hard. She said it always felt like she was ahead of the curve. So Ava's mum, just like you, Ree, with your trend predictions, I'm flattered that you felt that way. And she said I learned everything I know about health from my mum. I just wanted to thank you because listening to the wellness scoop feels like a slice of home that I miss so much.

15:33Anyway I just wanted to add a recommendation. I'm a medical student so I have quite limited time and finances but I wanted to share a few hacks I've come across that really help me keep my nutrition as good as it can be while sticking to a budget. It really can be done as you both always say. I love to batch cook a bean chili once a week. Yep, me too. I'm with you. I just used mixed beans from tins with onion, garlic, tomatoes in tins, and then chuck in any leftover veg. My favorite ones are celery and kale. And an extra thing I do is add a teaspoon of miso to fry off the garlic. Yummy. And at the end, yes, a square of 85 % dark chocolate into it to add a depth of flavor.

16:12Although I know it sounds odd, not at all. I have a chocolate chili recipe in my fiber book. You're adding fiber. Then she said snacking while studying is another thing I think is essential but bringing mixed nuts dark chocolate and some fruit is perfect I really do think these sorts of things are so doable but education is a barrier to do so and many people being able to live their healthiest lives I'm so grateful to you two for providing that and I hope one day I can help people in the way you do oh bless you she says I'm working on a project with my university on school meals and I've thought of you so many times while doing it thank you for everything you do for me from nutrition advice a giggle and even grief support lots of love and i found that very emotional to read ava just send a few here i'd give you a massive hug yeah ava thank you so much for sending such huge love and i love your recommendations there as well just as we we were talking about this actually again on monday like these simple little things really really add up and as you said like a really nice batch cook um something like a chili as you said once a week using really simple ingredients like onions garlic leftover carrots tins of beans you can get the kind of five beans in a tin so getting like almost 10 different of your plants like a third of the weekly need in there and the cool thing about that kind of recipe as well so you can eat it in different ways like you could have a wrap i did it with the kids in a wrap the other day with cheese for sure or exactly or like a taco kind of night version you could do it in baked potatoes um you can do it like rice you could do a guac you can do you know a couple of different meals like that so i love that thank you and thank you for kind of showing how you fit it into your lifestyle because i think that's also super important everyone's got different patterns of their work and different demands on their time and just knowing like these little habits can make such a big difference the next question comes from susie in cardiff um hi susie she said corn products often get labeled as ultra processed just if you're not in the uk corn is a brand that sells in the plant-based category like a kind of plant-based bolognese and things like that especially the ones designed to mimic specific meats but corn mince is 91 % mycoprotein it doesn't contain artificial additives can you explain what mycoprotein actually is whether it's considered healthy and why it's sometimes viewed as a less favorable option versus tofu or tempeh yeah it's a trademarked name actually what's so interesting and i wrote i did a whole page actually on corn because of its eco benefits for the environment in terms of the entire food production chain and what it is in my encyclopedia, The Science of Plant-Based Nutrition.

18:46So if you have that book, turn to that page because it is a protein-rich food and it's made from a naturally occurring fungus and the Latin name Fusarium venatum. And it isn't really a plant, animal or mushroom, but more of a like filamentous fungus and it's grown with fermentation. So it's a fermented food as well, which is another win. and during production this fungus is fed a carbohydrate traditionally from wheat like a glucose from it and it's almost like when you're making a sourdough or you're fermenting anything and it is allowed to grow into a network of fibers that naturally resemble a thick texture it's one of the oldest plant-based alternatives for vegetarians it's been around a very very long time before this new industry emerged you know of meat mimic things everywhere corn was around for very long time.

19:37It's then heated, filtered and combined with a small number of ingredients that make the final product. So let's just have a look here. So if you take corn particularly, by the way, the scientists that found this fungus and created this called it corn. And that's why that's the trademark name. It's a strange one. So you've got the protein part, microprotein, then rehydrated free range egg white. So actually, if you're a vegan, you can buy vegan corn. you know on the label it says if it's a vegetarian or vegan versioning you'll have the natural flavors so it's a bit more palatable you will potentially have some firming agents and seasoning but i think it depends on the product and it's only really got four ingredients so while it does undergo processing it's not the same as sausages and plant-based steaks and burgers with emulsifiers and colors does that make sense ella yeah i think it's an interesting thing because I think it is classified as ultra processed and it does have these ingredients although some of them have many less so it depends because so many different products but it is something where obviously you know if sustainability reasons ethical reasons you know um just like personal preference you are 100 plant-based then I don't think it should be seen as like a really really bad option on the continuum of things available personally I'd say it's like pretty medium beans are going to be better tofu is better because it is a kind of it's just a very very simple ingredient deck likewise tempeh you know I personally would make a lentil bolognese versus buying a pre-made bolognese kind of meat but that's just a personal preference I also just like the taste I like the texture more but if you really like this this is where and we always say it the UPF conversation is not unhelpful but a little confusing because this is not although technically by an overscore the classification this would sit in ultra process this is not the same as a jaffa cake or a coca-cola or like or haribo so i think that's where upfs get confusing because then suddenly everything's in the same bucket and it's like this is terrible and it's like no this isn't terrible it's high protein it's obviously as you say really amazing from a sustainability perspective really really amazing to have in your freezer like for those people on a budget in those we discussed the broken plate report on monday it's such a fantastic option for so many people to have in their freezer to pull out for meals because the cost of it and how many meals you can make from it and i'm with ella beans and pulses all the way but they it contains all nine essential amino acid there's no cholesterol very little saturated fat it's been used for over two decades they've got loads of research studies on it helping with your cholesterol levels all sorts of things.

22:22It's just, it's an example, like Ella said, quite rightly, but you're right to be confused because yes, technically that makes it a UPF, but again, it's fermented. That's great. So is tempeh, by the way, fermented soybeans. And that's actually beneficial for our gut bacteria. So it's one of the few UPFs that may have a positive impact on our gut microbiome, which is very rare, actually, when you look at ingredients there. Often we're telling you to reduce the UPF so it is a confusing question and it is confusing because there's so many different products and some of them only have like three ingredients in and really high in protein and then other ones have like 15 ingredients in and many many more UPF so it's tricky but I don't think we should be as Riri says I think with UPFs we've got to be so careful that we don't put everything in the same bucket as like cakes and biscuits and sweets because that's just not the case and there's reasons to be eating these things and the sustainability aspect is incredibly incredibly important obviously here so i think if you if you like it and and it's part of your kind of repertoire but you're also having tofu and you're also having lentils and you're also having beans like i wouldn't over think it no product like corn mince it's got your protein and your fiber low in saturated fat and if it helps people eat less red meat and like ella said processed meat and all sorts of things that's the way to look at it it's definitely positive spin yeah for sure

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25:19Ella, I think our next question is definitely good for you. So I think you'll have much more of an insight than I. It's from Jill in Northern Ireland. And on a recent episode, she said on Britain's Favorite Veg, you both seemed a little surprised at the list. We were encouraging listeners to mix it up. Have you visited a mainstream supermarket outside of London? Now, this is why I want to target this at Ella because she's visited many supermarkets. She said, in my Tesco here in Northern Ireland, there's not an extensive variety outside of carrots, potatoes and onions. It can be challenging to get 30 varieties of fruit and veg a week.

25:57And I definitely don't have time to go to multiple places to get more options. Any suggestions on how to improve this? Great question, Jill. as always thank you for writing in i can't say i'm an expert in northern ireland for sure i have been at too many supermarkets all around the uk obviously um yeah kind of selling product in retail has been the core part of my job for a decade so i feel quite qualified to have been to like many many many many many many more than me anyway store visits is a very important part of things and certainly in the uk obviously if you just have a local like if we're talking about a small town and it's a local or you know various different terminologies depending on which brand of supermarket we're talking about here then those don't necessarily have such a variety completely true but if we're talking about a bigger supermarket I think they do always have quite a lot of variety the other beauty is online ordering I do think that's an amazing personally I find online shopping a humongous help and I get a shop once a week and that means I've got a variety of things in the fridge all the time because I don't live near a bigger supermarket so I couldn't do it without but that's a massive massive help for me I don't know if that's available for you but I think it is possible but maybe it just requires a little bit more planning um depending where you live the goal obviously you know as we say isn't perfection and but also your 30 plants a week doesn't have to just come from vegetables like you know frozen um bags of fruit amazing you know might get five different berries in a mixed pack tins of mixed beans like five different beans in there for example yeah exactly like a big bag a holland barrett style bag of like mixed nuts and seeds again you're probably getting like five in there and suddenly this is adding up to 30 really really really quickly so i think that's a really important thing to say exactly and like big things of like dried grains for example spices herbs and spices in the little jars exactly you know or just having like a pot of basil or something on your windowsill if you can.

27:57So yeah, all of this stuff varies for everyone. And I really appreciate that. I would say, and I'm sure you don't mean it in this way, but like, I do think it's important to say that it becomes really easy to say nothing at the risk of offending one person. And I don't think that's helpful. And I don't want to call you out, Jill, because I don't think that's probably how you mean it. but I do think we have to be careful with taking things overly personally just generally in life because suddenly it's like you can't say anything because nothing we say is a hundred percent appropriate or accurate for every single person listening we're going to have someone listening in Slovenia who's like they don't sell this here I don't have Tesco what the hell is corn I don't know if they sell corn in Slovenia or we're going to have someone listening in Australia who's like hey guys you keep talking about heat wave like it's winter here and you're so right but you we can't personalize like absolutely everything to absolutely everybody what we want to do is give you the core information that's in the news that's the latest research that's what scientists are discovering right now and your core questions of everything you're seeing in health and wellness but we can't be perfect and we can't make it perfect for all of you as much as we wish that we could.

29:11Do you know what I love Ella that actually in Northern Island that they do eat seasonally because that says a lot about the supermarkets correct me if I'm wrong anyone that's tuning in from there let Ella and I know but if you're growing a lot of potatoes and carrots and things you're getting seasonally that's pretty good actually you don't need all these exotic ingredients all the time honestly everything is a small little win tins don't underestimate the power of tins as well and frozen food that's a good question the next one we have is a lovely listener from sweden who said i've heard that breath work can help regulate the nervous system but i don't know where to start what would you recommend for beginners ella i can only talk about the science here i've no idea this is again definitely for you yeah you're absolutely right there's a lot of research on breathing so kind of breath meditation and and slow breathing particularly just slow breathing and extended exhales in terms of supporting becoming into our parasympathetic our rest and digest part of our nervous system very very well researched the power of mindfulness meditation as they said kind of slow mindful breathing i do think there's probably an over like do one breathing exercise and you'll have a regulated nervous system because there's so many inputs into our stress levels but regular practice of these things can be incredibly powerful for better managing your stress and as a result having a better flexibility between switching between our sympathetic and our parasympathetic are kind of stressed and less so states of the nervous system so I'm a huge fan of it where to begin it's interesting question we obviously had our question right at the beginning from Audrey like I tried this I didn't like it there's so many different teachers there's so many different styles there's so many different ways of approaching this and you've got to find what you like obviously you're so welcome to join my classes that I do every week which is so fun I really like the open app if you want to do at home breath work literally just the word open I think those are really good I really like their teachers what was the one you recommended the other week as well so that's a meditation app I think it's the best app ever called the way is unbelievable it's a British man called Henry Shookman oh my gosh it's so good and the thing I really like about the way is that it's not a choice it's a path and so you just turn it on and like you just do today's session and it all builds on the other next the ones that come before it because I do think you can open an app and see like you know 300 ,000 classes and exactly like you said like where do you start so that's really nice open is feels they're all quite short like seven eight minutes so also if you're trying to build it into your day that's really nice can i ask a question just a naive question we still have listeners that ask for that merlin app you know your mum recommended camilla about the birds yes is sitting outside is it different because you have to use the app but does that count just trying to tune into the sounds of the birds and then discovering what they are yeah i mean if you just went and sat outside in a park or your garden or somewhere you can sit outside right now and just sat put your phone away and just sat for like 10 minutes and just like enjoyed the view listened to the buzz that is essentially meditation that's that's like an open awareness meditation or a sound meditation it just doesn't have to be perfect in in that sense like you don't have to sit cross-legged you know in yoga clothes on a mat like you really really don't but I think it's about finding a teacher or a few teachers that you really like that to me is the key because like there are some of the best qualified teachers in the world I just don't personally like love their class whereas there'll be someone else who I discover and I'm like oh my gosh this is amazing like for me the way just addicted I love the way he approaches it so you just got to find what's right for you but you're absolutely right although there's lots of inputs so it's not as simple as like one breathwork class will regulate you forever it's incredibly well researched in terms of supporting stress management and so probably something lots of us could benefit from.

33:21I think it's why Ella is very, she's always very calm. And I know that life throws lots of things at you, but I think it's really beneficial. And research does show, for instance, that slowing your breathing, particularly for around five to six breaths per minute, it improves your heart rate variability. And over time, that is a marker of how adaptable our nervous system is to stress. And we talk a lot about cortisol on this podcast and the impact of long term chronic stress, because we know that a higher heart rate over a prolonged period of time, you know, isn't great. And we've got to have a look at having a generally associated resilience recovery with breath work.

33:58It helps our fight or flight, our nervous system. And I just yeah, lovely question. I'm motivated to try that one. One hundred percent. I love it. okay Emily says thank you so much for an amazing podcast I've listened since day one thank you Emily I've recently been diagnosed with celiac disease and I feel like it shifted everything I feel I was finally getting my head around UPFs and making wiser choices and now I feel really thrown I've read the laws of gluten-free products and now more ultra prices and learn fiber etc can you give me advice on any ingredients to become aware of to avoid things that are more beneficial or great recipes or gluten-free swaps that are delicious but simple i'm really struggling a hundred percent i think first of all emily gosh what a diagnosis to receive celiac disease is not to be taken lightly and i just want to remind people this is not we're not talking about um going just going gluten-free and and that's it um your whole body suddenly can be at risk because of course this is an autoimmune condition it's not a dietary preference or a choice and when someone with celiac consumes gluten their immune system can attack the lining of their their own small intestine and that's what damages the tiny finger like things we call villi like lots of looks like a hairbrush almost of lots of bristles that kind of line our gut and it means we're not absorbing our nutrition effectively and left untreated you know we can get severe malnutrition risk of deficiencies leads towards other conditions internal osteoporosis fertility flare-ups complications so my biggest caution here obviously is that whilst we can talk about flexibility and balance ella and i can't give one-to-one of course and one-to-one advice and i'm not a gp here just a nutritionist but what we definitely can do is discuss the anxiety that can come around and the fear for people too we have to remember that if you are living with an intolerance or an allergy which is life-threatening or a condition the anxiety that can cause in everyday life reading labels on packets you know we've all heard those awful stories that have come in the news from things like this i want to acknowledge that i understand that's also probably a really a really big thing now while it's true gluten-free products of course cambylure and fiber are more processed sadly that is the state of the food industry at the moment have to be that way they are worse they are so much so much worse so bad because we started life at delicious yellow in the free from category of the supermarket mostly because they didn't really know where to put us and kind of better for you option and we were generally like naturally gluten free and naturally dairy free and that was always the approach was just like yeah trying to have the most whole food ingredients anyways so we went in there so we feel like i've had a really good why did they put that so ridiculous to just plonk you in it actually worked really well for us in the end but well because we talked about on monday like it's you know the food industry is dominated by enormous players so actually being um in a smaller category was a really great place for us to to start but it's almost the most ultra processed category of the supermarket so your assessment is absolutely not wrong it's an unfortunate reality emily but your assessment that gluten-free products are so much worse it's completely accurate it's absolutely astonishing because you have to take out a component of the food you have to take out the protein the glue that holds a product together that is the gluten so it has to be manipulated and my advice so i was gluten-free for like maybe five years i had so many stomach problems it really helped me as my gut health improved i managed to reintroduce it now eat it no problem at all it's obviously completely different to celiac disease but having cooked gluten-free for a good number of years my personal opinion and i want to make this positive not negative is you can't replicate it and i think it's when you're trying to replicate that perfectly that actually you end up having so many different fillers and binders that's what happens to bread bread is a big culprit the upf gluten-free bread yeah so the ingredients aren't great and it's nowhere near the same or as good and I personally found just cooking more naturally gluten-free so focusing on like quinoa and those sorts of ingredients I found the meal so much more delicious I do think the best pasta brand for gluten-free pasta though is rumo because the interesting thing is the science of course of boiling anything without gluten as well the texture is completely different so that's where half the challenge comes if you're trying to mimic an original item but it just doesn't feel fair that if you don't have those cooking skills you should miss out on your favorite items and that's where I think the industry can do better and I think it will I think it will have to evolve but that would be my big focus is trying to I found whenever I tried to replicate it I was disappointed if I'm just completely honest because it wasn't the same whereas when I tried to create something that was naturally gluten-free absolutely delicious so i just focused more as like rice or quinoa those sorts of things which was absolutely great like jacket potatoes kind of like corn tortillas these products that just don't have it in but yeah rumo r-u-m-m-o that pasta doesn't go soggy i don't think i think it's really really similar my my sister's gluten free and and that didn't exist or i couldn't find it when i was but i have tried loads of brands and for her my one of my best friends is celiac and that tastes like normal pasta so the industry is changing which is amazing and a little shout out to voices like becky excel who is a prolific cookbook author and she does gluten-free cookbooks and things as well of everyday recipes and like ella said the products then rely heavily on other ingredients to mimic that scientific component whereas like ella said some of those naturally gluten-free foods potatoes you can make potato fars you can make loads of different loaves of bread and bread now if you just look at ella's books my cookbooks we can make so many things without gluten and focusing on things there and some breakfast examples now it's the oat conversation of course the contamination in factories that also impacts products so while some ingredients might be gluten-free naturally they might be contaminated it's another anxiety issue for people that's what also pushes the price up so for example like we've always used gluten-free oats but if you produce in a factory that's not then completely gluten-free there's a full clean down process before those products can be made and so obviously that that adds to the cost so there's a lot of things that add to the reason as well that gluten-free products are more expensive and like the oat is exactly the same i think that's always been a bit confusing to people like a gluten-free oat normal oat it's actually the exact same thing but if a non-certified gluten-free oat is grown near a wheat crop you cannot guarantee there's no cross-contamination you know the wind blows whereas gluten-free oats will make sure that they are grown and cultivated um and harvested in a way that's free of the cross-contamination so and then again you'll have like gluten-free factories non-gluten-free factories.

41:18So it's very complicated. Can you look up quickly the cost? I'm interested on buckwheat noodles versus normal wheat noodles. Because buckwheat is something that we could definitely cook with more. And I'm just wondering, like you said, it doesn't seem fair that anyone diagnosed with celiac disease that's going for these things out there should have to pay more. Is that a good swap or is that a cost difference, I wonder? Sorry, I've asked Ella to be detective. hey that's okay can be way higher but not always okay so depends on the brand as always depends on the brand yeah a little note to finish as well just um on the nutrition side of things nutrition for celiacs can be really hard especially if you're going through different flare-ups iron folate b12 vitamin d calcium all of these components definitely discuss them with your healthcare team because um everyone's also different and anyone with an ibd is different but we've got research Ella that like you said how bad the alternatives can be in that category that can also increase flare-ups so if someone is gluten-free and then they're buying these gluten-free items it can make their symptoms worse because there's research in this area now as well it is complicated my best advice is focus on naturally gluten-free delicious whole food ingredients because then you're just like celebrating things what is it's my personal take on veggie food as well i'm always like i want to make something beautiful with a slow roasted aubergine as opposed to like pretend that something yeah is a piece of fish or whatever it is because it's like it's not and i always think then people are disappointed it's like if i cook for very carnivorous friends and family i would just make them something that's so different they're like yum and you can enjoy it for what it is otherwise i think these things can be disappointing right amanda says your podcast is a little rare sunshine thanks amanda she listens well she strength strains Love that, Amanda.

43:07Can I ask why blackcurrants, redcurrants and gooseberries are never mentioned by nutritionists as healthy options? I'm very curious. Well, they're definitely mentioned by me because I grew up with a garden of gooseberries. But you're right. No, no press person ever asks you about the nutritional benefits of gooseberries. I would say blackcurrants as well. But there's reasons. Again, Ella, we've had a lot of talk actually about the food chain today, which I think is really, really helpful. But do you want to give us a little bit of info on why it comes down to how much in bulk you can provide? because that obviously dictates what we see on the shelves.

43:38We grow in abundant strawberries here. We love our berries. They're very good for us. And again, we need more support in the UK to help our farmers because we blooming love them, but they are pricey. Yeah, we need things essentially like we can mass produce in order to sell in large retailers, generally speaking in terms of the industry at the moment. But I think it's really funny that we actually didn't notice this when putting these things together, that Jill and Amanda's questions sit in the same thing because Jill's like this isn't accessible enough to me and then Amanda's like make it wider both of which are so valid but I think it's interesting I think part of the reason people don't talk about it is it's like for most people you know living in an urban place or something like gooseberries or red currants they're just not in most Aldis or Tescos or Morrisons or whatever and so I would never include them in a recipe because I'd be like no one can make that yeah but you're right for gut health and for diversity we probably should be encouraging it so it's always a hard balance as we said like it's so hard to get it right for everyone but you know gooseberries amazing for you yeah it's so good and in fact i compare them to rhubarb in a way not that they're the same they're completely different but they need a lot of sugar so love rhubarb i know ella's rhubarb obsession has rubbed off on me as well and it reminds me of my grandparents in wales they used to grow rhubarb and at home where i grew up in wiltshire we grew a lot of gooseberries we had this kind of gooseberry bush by the river like you did um very very rural growing up but gooseberries do they're quite bitter so you do have to stew them I'd say or bake them with lots of sugar as well then we have our last question today from Sally she said I discovered your podcast um in January and I love it there's so many good snippets of actually useful information but I'm enjoying the more in-depth discussions on school meals for example and my questions around ice cream we all love ice cream she said i don't eat loads although i had a mild obsession with little moons now they're like the little mochis mochis oh so good like the rice stretchy again gluteny like you stretch the rice and you put it round and it's a delicious good option for people but more to be mindful this year i saw this article today and she saw it in the daily mail and she is called the healthiest supermarket ice cream a nutritionist reveals tubs added to the trolleys they've got a nutritionist to go through all the different ingredients on the back of ice cream tubs it is very interesting and i have to say all the recs that we've got here i really enjoy but it's hard to find a quote-unquote minimal one on a mainstream supermarket shelf yeah first of all i would say like i don't think ice cream is probably like the place of stress i think we would say like upfs in moderation just no problem delicious sugar in moderation just no problem and not something to worry about if you love ice cream and there's a type of ice cream you love or like I don't know you know at school sports say the ice cream trucks there of course like the kids can eat that ice cream you know I'm not someone it's funny I actually I was in um the supermarket on Friday and um the kids had had a big week at school they're actually very long story we're actually moving again they're changing school in September anyways a story for another day she's just announced it and a story for another day but as a treat i was like you guys you can choose anything you want in the supermarket like get yourself a treat anyway the old one chose this big pack of cornettos and i was like great that's really my approach like the lots of healthy things at home that's the treat fab i really want them to have that ice cream whatever goes yeah but it made me laugh because then when we were leaving she was clutching this big thing of cornettos and someone came up to me they're like oh my god are you delicious siela they're gonna think i'm so don't live by what i'm praying they had some very good marketing cornetto italian aria cornetto exactly anyway that made me laugh so much but personally for me look i really try and live by this thing of like we really healthy meals we sit down as a family but like i don't want people to feel like my children to feel like they can't have this they can't have that and things are good and things are bad so we try and have a nice like flexibility so at home i try and get the slightly better versions because they like to eat you know little tree after supper all the time we do it every weekend in the summer and sometimes after school so i'm 100 on you the rex here the licker licks ones my kids are obsessed with and the blood orange ones oh they're insane it's a tiny brand we get the monocardo it's licker licks with an x yeah it's a small british brand they've got little mr men on the packaging the chocolate ones and the strawberry lemonade most popular in our house but they're basically mostly fruit they're really really good they're And like, so my kids have one every day, like literally every day.

48:18They love them. Then I was looking up for tubs, the best ones, actually, funnily enough, a few weeks ago, because again, they eat a lot of ice cream. Remio. Ella, we get their lemon sorbet tubs. And then I actually get their ice lollies because I love the, this has been my, you'll have seen them on my Instagram. My pregnancy addiction is their ice lollies, sorbet ice lollies. The ice sorbet ice lollies are amazing. So they're a really good brand as well. Remio, R-E-M-E-O. and then my last one this actually a friend recommended to me most recently i'd never come across them before i think this is a teeny teeny teeny tiny brand but you know in europe they have those like ice poles like pops like in a plastic pectin it's long like frozen ones i used to have those as a kid ice poles oh but they were bad as a kid they were like bright blue exactly no these are like just mostly free with a little bit of sugar and pectin they're called polar p-o-l-a poles there's a rhubarb flavor ree anyways and like british raspberry anyway they're really fun i think that's amazing don't stress about it yeah like enjoy it in the park or whatever you're doing but you know for me i was like we're eating so much ice cream at home what i'll mostly stock at home is that but if you see me in the shop with a big box of cornettos that's because balance is part of our life and also just a little food science bit a lot the reason ice creams are made originally or were made in that way was so they'd last a long time you could transport them without losing the texture the consistency that perfect thing and yeah life's all about choosing your your own personal scale at home of where you're happy to sit in between you could even make your own frozen banana blitz call it an ice cream you can buy the cornettos like hello and i do for the kids all these lick-a-licks and yeah go for it but it's been a very good episode i feel we've covered a lot today thank you for listening and we are back on monday so keep your emails coming to hello at wellness hyphen scoop.com and we'll see you on monday bye can't wait guys bye