The Extra Scoop: Anxiety 101

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0:48Welcome to The Extra Scoop, our expert-led bonus episodes, giving you the need to know on the topics everybody is talking about. That's right. From gut health to sleep, hormones to skin, we are cutting through the noise with top experts, so there is no fluff, just facts. Exactly. It's all quick, practical, evidence-based advice to fit into your busy lives. So this is The Extra Scoop. Let's get started.

1:18Marianne, welcome to the show. We're so thrilled to have you and today we're going to talk about anxiety. Do we all have it? I think so many of us spend a lot of our life wondering if we're normal, what we're experiencing is normal and anxiety is often top of those list of those very human emotions that most of us experience at different periods in our life. It affects millions of us. It's on the rise. But I think the question we both have is, do we all really understand what it actually is and how it manifests? So in this 15 minute conversation, we're going to explore that difference between everyday anxiety and clinical anxiety, why it shows up so differently for everybody and share some very practical tools for managing it in our daily lives.

1:56Yeah, exactly. I mean, we've got a huge stat, Marianne. So anxiety, it's sort of like a buzzword now because it affects 8 million people. And I think that statistic's rising in the UK. So most of us, do we really understand what anxiety is and how it manifests in daily life? And should we be more accepting of it as normal? Is it a totally human part of our lives? If we start there, if you could help our listeners, that would be amazing. Sure. So yeah, I think it's obviously really good to be here, by the way. But I think anxiety, it is part of the human experience, but it isn't perhaps as trendy as we might think it is.

2:31It's always been around, you know, it's a really important kind of defence for us really. But even kind of if you're ever working with older adults or chatting to older adults, they kind of might talk about it as my nerves. And what that means is anxiety. And even as a psychologist, it took me a long time to kind of to join up those dots. But I think what has changed is the level of exposure, the level of acceptance, the level of validation. And whilst that can be really good, it can also be invalidating sometimes because it might make you think, well, this is just an internal part of me. I just need to be able to put up with this and kind of shut up really.

3:14But actually, if this is maybe a family story that all of you kind of struggle with anxiety, then maybe it's about different attachments, about different parenting styles. It might not be something that you need to necessarily just put up with. And so, yes, having this conversation is important, but also knowing that we don't have to keep it and to know that actually in its normal kind of innocuous state, it's just supposed to kind of warn us about danger or risk and prepare us and help us actually do our best to do presentations or to do things that are a little bit out of the ordinary so that it kind of gets everything flowing and helps us bring out a game.

3:58But if it becomes outside those limits, that's where it's not quite so okay. And so how do you draw that distinction between experiencing anxiety as that normal part of life and struggling with it in a more clinical sense. Because I think, as Rhi said earlier, both of us have experienced anxiety in different ways in our lives. I suffered really badly, actually, with postpartum anxiety, which was my most extreme experience of it. And I think it was very difficult, certainly at that point, for me to imagine that that feeling would ever leave me and that it almost felt it was defining me at that point.

4:33And actually, I'm very grateful after about six months, that really did change. But that's something we've both been talking about a lot is how do we see it as something that's just lasting hours, something that's lasting maybe a period in our life and something that is much more longstanding. Yeah, it's really tricky, isn't it? With becoming a parent or a new parent or subsequent babies, everything that we go through and obviously the sleep deprivation alongside that, it's a big deal. But when anxiety becomes more clinical, I think, is when it starts to impact on someone's wellbeing, on their ability to have their relationships, to work, to study, to perhaps to parent.

5:12And obviously, at the extreme end, if it impacts on their risk to themselves, all those around them, perhaps as a result of taking, you know, unprescribed medication or prescribed medication to excess or even non-intentional self-injurious or self-harming behaviors. But sleep, sleep is so big, such an important factor for anxiety. And yeah, I think if it is impacting on your functioning, your ability to get everything done that would be typical for you to get done in your day, if it's impacting on your well-being, if it's impacting on how many problems you feel you've got weighing down on you and then your risk but also you know like I said your sleep and your relationships and how you feel about yourself really that for me is when it becomes a clinical issue something that someone absolutely should begin to think about tackling for their own benefit but also those around them.

6:13So if it's become a clinical issue is that when you need to go to your GP because Ella mentioned, you know, she experienced this postpartum and I, for instance, have been diagnosed with breathing pattern disorder, which took me two years to get that diagnosis. And I think it can manifest for different people in so many different ways. And that's what probably, as you've just said, makes it so hard to actually be like, oh, is this something I really should be going to my doctor about? But why does it show in different ways? Why did I, for instance, have breathing pattern disorder? I have had problems breathing and the hypervigilance that I know Ella and I have both experienced.

6:54So many people get different symptoms, don't they? They do. They do. And I know with you and your singing, obviously, breathing is a big deal, Rhiannon. But we are all individuals. We are all different. And where we stand, how close we stand to anxiety will differ from day to day, minute to minute. how we've been parented you know in the late 90s there was a rise of kind of less attachment parented more manualized kind of parenting and actually that often has led to the children that have been parented and the adults they've become not feeling that safe not being able to soothe themselves invalidating themselves often people will say to me well I don't know why I feel why I feel anxious or depressed and when we dig deeper actually they've kind of got PTSD symptoms or they've got complex trauma even from their experiences of being raised.

7:47And it's interesting you mentioned the breathing pattern stuff, but I don't know if you guys have heard of it. It might be a little bit too technical, but heart rate variability, which is actually the gaps in between your heart rate. And when that is poor, it can lead to a trauma presentation, but actually your breathing is much shallower. so your breathing will be kind of just throat really and people often don't realize that they're doing that but when I'm reviewing people in clinic I'm looking at how they're breathing do they ever get to the bottom of their lungs and actually just sitting with them and practicing not wearing your shoulders as earrings you know I think you might be leaning your shoulders on a table Rhiannon yours look a little high but just dropping those there we go dropping those down and just having that regular check-in.

8:38We are all so different. And even where we are with menopause, perimenopause, our cycles, all of that, and grief. Grief can make you feel so anxious. But also, as you guys would know, with physical health, sometimes certain conditions can lead to higher cortisol, to lower estrogen, to lower progesterone. And that can lead to anxiety, but also low vitamin D, low iron. That can make you feel horrendously anxious. It might feel like anxiety. But what I would say is if it doesn't feel normal for you, then it might not be mental health. It's important that we rule out physical health, but also let's not invalidate people's experience.

9:25Let's really think about what they've been through, help them understand what they're experiencing, help them accept it, control it, maybe even change it. And in that acceptance, what are the most effective ways of managing it, the tools, the techniques that people can bring into their everyday lives, especially when you're feeling overwhelmed? And I think as part of that acceptance, as we were talking about earlier, that anxiety at moments is just going to be a very, very normal emotion for us. But I imagine there are still things that we can do to help feel better. One of the most important things, I think, is just to take a moment and just check in with ourselves and recognize when we might be thinking that our thoughts are facts.

10:12So, you know, you might say, oh, no, I'm anxious. Oh, this is awful. This is going to be another big bout of me, you know, not being able to leave the house for three months and, you know, everything going to pot. Instead, we might say, oh, I'm having the thought that this could be the start of anxiety. And then almost that helps you separate yourself from that, gets you a little bit of breathing space. And when we've got that, you know, you literally, you drop your shoulders, take a moment just to ground yourself, make sure you're never wearing those shoulders as earrings. They have a tendency of creeping up.

10:50And just take a breath through your nose. We'll do that together, shall we? Take a breath through your nose.

10:58Hold that for a moment. Breathe out through your mouth if you can. Trying to make your out-breath longer than your in-breath. Hold that out-breath for a moment. If you've got bigger lung capacity, it will take you longer. But hold the out-breath for a moment. Then breathe in again through your nose.

11:20Hold that one for a moment. breathe out through your mouth. This is called our soothing rhythm breathing, often just three cycles of this. We'll do one more when you're ready. Breathe in through your nose.

11:37Hold that for a moment, breathe out through your mouth.

11:46always aiming to get that out breath longer than the in breath and actually for that heart rate variability that we mentioned there's medication that can treat that but actually you know the symptoms the side effects to that the breathing also treats that heart rate variability so that checking in with yourself checking in with your breathing and just taking that moment to do your breathing really can expand your window of tolerance to make everything feel slower, calmer, more resilient. And then of course, movement, exercise, sleep, really thinking about your caffeine. So, so many people in clinic might come with a coffee, come with a tea, come with an energy drink.

12:31Like, you know, that can be the enemy of anxiety actually. So just having a look at the way you live your life, how you talk to yourself, what your flavour of self talk is like, and trying to just really make breathing your thing, journaling, talking to someone, and de-shaming this process is absolutely key, I think. From listening to you, it sounds like there's a handful of lifestyle factors that are very important to look at first. regular exercise. I read something recently where only about 20 % of women our age are exercising the recommended 150 minutes a week. So I think it's something so many of us struggle to fit into busy days, but thinking about exercise, looking at your vitamin D levels in particular, regular sleep, being able to try and separate your thoughts and not define yourself by those initial thoughts.

13:26Is there anything else you would add to that list as first port of calls for people to be thinking about? Yeah, I think a really nice one is really thinking about grounding yourself. So sometimes it's helpful to think about where are my feet at the moment? Oh, OK, they're in my socks, they're in my slippers. Right. Let me just connect to that. Let me see if I can feel the floor pressing up through that. Can I notice my toes? Can I notice other parts of my body? Just really trying to ground ourselves in the moment. And then also thinking about what, you know, the 5-4-3-2-1 method that you might have heard of.

14:06What five things can I see? If you do your breathing at the same time, it can be really helpful as a soothing strategy. What four things can I hear? What three things can I touch? What two things can I smell? what one thing can I taste perhaps maybe it's just you know something you've got with your drink maybe it's the toothpaste that you've just brushed your teeth with maybe you have like a polo or something like that just to to help you to tune into that but sometimes having a really nice soothing smell that's unique for you some people like peppermint some people like like a particularly scented candle that helps them to think about the now but really tuning in to those senses you know it's our survival strategy.

14:49It's the bunny in the forest that actually will be startled. Then he will use his feet to think, well, can I feel any earthquake? No, I can't. Can I smell any burning? No, I can't. Can I see a fox? No, I can't. And once we kind of rule all of those out, all of our senses tend to kind of hopefully come more online so that we can then just get on with our day, you know, become like that bunny grazing in the grass again, with less disruption to our function and well-being. So would you say if somebody at home listening, so thank you, because this has all been so unbelievably helpful and such a good reminder, I think we often need to be reminded that we have control and we are able to do grounding techniques.

15:36But if somebody has gone to their GP for this, are they likely to be prescribed lifestyle techniques first before or embarking upon another medicalised kind of route. Just if anyone listening is thinking, well, will my GP tell me to do these techniques? Will I get support? What is there out there for them? I think it's really difficult, isn't it? And what we know is that by the time people reach out to their GP, they've kind of already had enough. They might have already tried sensible strategies. And so it's really tricky to ask somebody that's struggling with anxiety to become more assertive.

16:13But, you know, taking a note in your phone and actually when someone perhaps tries to do first line defense of perhaps try going for a walk or, you know, go out and do this, try that. Actually, it's knowing that it's OK to have a conversation about that. You're not necessarily having to say, OK, I'll go and try that. You know, it's OK to self-advocate. And if you know you find that tricky, it's also okay to take someone with you or you just have notes in your phone to be able to talk about the things you've tried. And also I think it is for the health professionals to know, often people have tried first line defences.

16:53You know, we don't always want to put someone on medication straight away. And actually a really lovely chance to get involved with talking therapy before medicalising can be really helpful because the thing with medication is, it can be very helpful, especially in cases of risk to self or others. So I'm absolutely not saying don't take medication, but that in itself can be invalidating because we know a little pill can't actually think for you, can't make those changes. It's you that goes out on the walk. It's you that begins that journaling practice. It's you that begins that breathing. And so if we do get better and we've taken medication, it's really common to think that it's a medication that made us better.

17:39No, it's actually you. You've helped make yourself better. So staying on your own team and taking the medication if prescribed, but also knowing that it's you that's made those changes can be so important. amazing Marianne I think it's just been the most helpful thing and I think Ella and I those were the key questions that we thought would be really helpful for the wellness scoop listeners Ella have we touched on the key takeaways do you think we absolutely have and I think the big thing for me to take away from this conversation is normalizing the fact that feeling moments of anxiety is absolutely a normal part of the human experience and we shouldn't feel that there's anything abnormal about us for having those feelings and struggling with it.

18:23But when it's lasting for long periods of time and it's having an impact on your life, that's when you should seek more focused help. But actually, first and foremost within that, make sure you look at those things that are very actionable and very much in our own power, even if they feel difficult today, exercising, checking vitamin levels, making sure you're taking those vitamin D supplements in particular and then looking at journaling understanding your thought process and I think for me it's always that reminder actually that there's so much out of our hands when it comes to our life when it comes to our health but actually there are these I say simple and I don't mean simple in the sense that it's easy to fit into a busy life but simple things like short walks on our lunch breaks five minutes to breathe in the evening or do a bit of journaling of high quality vitamin d supplement these sorts of things that actually they do take a moment but they don't take too long and they can fit into our busy lives and worlds that can feel overwhelming to a degree it's also empowering to know actually these small habits they can make a massive difference to how we feel every day do you know what hit me was the rabbit analogy you know when you said the bunny in the woods and how you just have to sometimes distract your mind from those other thoughts every single day of the stress of the school run or you're you're late for work and just think can I feel my feet on the ground it's so simple isn't it but it's so effective and so powerful Marianne thank you ever so much for coming on the wellness scoop with us thank you it's been really lovely thanks for inviting me and hope anyone listening to this feels that it's been helpful and there's no shame in any of this thank you guys so much for listening to us on the extra Scoop.

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