The Gluten Debate and the Benefits of Chocolate

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0:32Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly days of health and wellness inspiration and as always we are both here as your hosts, I'm Mella Mills and I'm Rhianna Lambert and today we are diving into some juicy topics as chosen by you all.

0:50This is our Q &A episode so just a reminder every week we take your questions, queries, comments, recommendations, requests to do this episode. So if you have anything you want to add to the conversation or a burning question that you need answered, either pop it in the Spotify or Apple comments, please, or you can email it straight to me, ella at deliciouslyella.com. Exactly. And honestly, the questions you are asking us are just brilliant and very appropriate for the seasons that we're entering into. But actually, we do have exciting news before we do get to which one you pick Ella next week haven't we we do exactly so thank you so much for everyone's feedback on our q a episode that we did on zempic and majaro and all the weight loss drugs with jack molesley we really appreciate all that feedback and we have had also a huge number of questions about gut health so we thought we could do something similar on gut health that we bring an expert to really focus on that next week we're going to be joined by Tim Spector, who's obviously an absolutely phenomenal pioneering researcher, scientist, eminent man, and a gut health guru.

1:56And so he will be joining us to go through all your questions on gut health. So that's going to be absolutely brilliant next Thursday. But Rhi, before we get into the questions as well, have you got any good recs for us this week? Anything we need in our lives? Would you know, Ella, we actually have some amazing recommendations from our listeners. We've got one here from A.M. Birmingham. And she said, I know you love a location. yes we do thank you for sharing big up to Birmingham she said apologies it's not more exotic I love the show and I'd like to share the ultimate phone wellness hack courtesy of the shameless podcast my favorite Ella's favorite podcast a few weeks ago they recommended turning your phone screen to black and white because it makes it less interesting for your brain and it's changed my life I haven't been on Instagram in two weeks wow that is amazing she said it's just not engaging with no colour and you don't buy anything if you can't see it properly.

2:49And if friends send pictures or I want to look at something specific, then I turn the colour back on, enjoy it and turn it off again afterwards. I can't explain how much it's helped me and would love to share that for all of you to try. So you go to your iPhone, go to your settings, accessibility, display and colour filters. That is a fantastic recommendation for anyone else who's struggling with phones and doom scrolling and overusing. I love that. And we also have another recommendation from Hannah today. I've already actioned this recommendation, so I'll report back next week. But Hannah said, I have a sweet treat recommendation that I've just come across.

3:23It's a company called True Dates and the sour apple and sour watermelon ones really do taste like sweets, but without the sugar and lots of extra fiber. I've just found them on Amazon and they seem like a great alternative. They taste so good. Thanks for the fab podcast. Yeah, I mean, I love dates. Does she literally mean dates? I've just bought them. So I will give you more info next Thursday when we do our recommendations and let you guys know if they're absolutely fantastic, as Hannah says. But yeah, I think it's dates with a coating that creates that like sour, apple, sour, watermelon, sweetie type taste.

3:55But then you obviously get the health benefit of the date. So it's really cool, really cool concept. And a good fiber boost, everyone.

4:03Now, our first question is from Emma. and she has said well the subject of her email rather is to wheat or not to wheat i like it i loved it such a good email she said i love the podcast and i've shared it with so many of my friends okay so this question is for re i'm hoping re can clear up the confusion around wheat slash gluten there are so many claims about it being inflammatory and damaging to the gut and not essential for our diets which i understand with upfs and some white versions however i'm not ready to give up sourdough, I'd like to know if there's benefit. I'm finding it confusing the whole grain, sourdough, UPF, white bread, all the different bread options help.

4:43I'm very confused. I would say we've had quite a few similar questions. I just particularly appreciated to wheat or not to wheat from Emma. Me too. It's such a great title. And please do not worry, Emma, you're not alone. And let's start with explaining that gluten, I used to break this down in clinic by explaining the word glue from gluten. It's like sticky. So it's like a stretch protein that holds things together in food. And I don't think a lot of people realize gluten is a protein. It gives dough its elasticity, it's helping maintain its shape, you know, the structure of a food. And for most people, this glue-like property in baking does not equate to inflammation in the body.

5:23So it's a complete myth, really, that's kind of come about online. It happened many years ago. And scientific reviews have consistently shown that gluten doesn't trigger inflammation. But this is in individuals that do not have celiac disease or a non-celiac gluten sensitivity. So only if you are unable to digest gluten are you going to experience problems. And in fact, whole grains containing gluten can contribute to better gut health and a reduced risk of chronic disease due to their fibro-nutrition content. And there's studies all the way up to 2025 that state this. And a little fact about sourdough, because I know you mentioned sourdough.

6:00when I attended a talk recently for by Tim Spector actually our guru who's going to chat to us all next week a little bit more he was discussing the benefits of dead microbes and how they may still have a benefit within our gut and I've also added this research to my latest book and sourdough the beneficial bacteria that is lost during the heating process so it is fermented the bread is good for us but of course when you heat it up you know you don't get the bacteria being alive anymore. You've essentially killed it. But even having dead microbes is really good for our gut health, Ella, because during fermentation, the lactic acid bacteria, wild yeast break down those complex carbs and it makes gluten slightly minusculely easier to digest and also contains lots of other beneficial compounds that may improve mineral absorption like iron and zinc.

6:50And the overall GI impact potentially could be lower. So I think that's why sourdough is literally the go-to but there's a lot of fake sourdoughs out there oh my gosh there have been some like not gonna say scandals but some essentially yeah some sort of scandally type conversations about it because um yeah a lot of you can't really have a supermarket sourdough that is the reality because we're talking about like almost a two-day process to cook your bread and that's just not plausible on large scale so i think kind of be aware of that i think the other thing though you do see a lot is bread is one of those interesting areas in terms of the continuum that it sits on because you mentioned Emma, UPFs there.

7:31Obviously, we have at one end homemade sourdough, which to your point, really can be really beneficial for gut health and is also an amazing carrier for all sorts of toppings, be that like smashed peas or garlicky tomato beans or baked bean type products, avocado, you know, eggs, if you eat them, whatever it is, and actually, therefore, it can be really help create a really quick, nutritious meal. But the challenge is at the other end, bread is one of the most consumed UPF items, because, you know, obviously, and again, it's all about balance, and it's not to kind of fear monger, but a lot of the ready, you know, the supermarket breads, which are really, you know, this is one of the big challenges in terms of price because they are very affordable.

8:16The ingredient list, you know, they do contain, you know, three different E numbers and emulsifiers, preservatives, you know, lots, they do have lots of UPFs in them. And so it is something if you're trying to cut down on UPFs, bread is an area where people do, could improve, but equally price is a huge part of that. So I think it is really confusing. And I think there is such a continuum in terms of health benefit of, as I said, like a homemade sourdough at one end, which is really quite nutritious unless you're a celiac or have that gluten sensitivity. And then the other end where actually these aren't great for us, but that's incredibly challenging because they're really inexpensive.

8:56And in the world that we live in, that's really important. So it's a very difficult one. And I would argue as well, and it's like I wrote in the unprocessed plate, the privilege thing with bread, bread is such a difficult thing to discuss because if you are listening now, like you've said, and you want to make a health change, great, and you're able to do it. But for so many people, that fortification, even in a highly UPF processed bread, I mean, I'd rather it not be to the degree it is, but it is. But that iron can be really beneficial for people or the folic acid, the folate that is added into the bread for people that are living on the bread line.

9:28And from the bread line, there you go, it's called on the bread line. I think bread is just such a staple food that a lot of people don't see it as potentially a healthy addition to the diet. There's lots of nuance surrounding this topic. So I hope that's really helped you. So we've definitely dived into the fact that those beneficial microbes still exist in sourdough, even when they are not alive anymore. Lucy has said, thank you to both of you. I love the podcast. Marie, thank you for inspiring me to learn more about nutrition. I'm so, so pleased. And then Ella, do you want to read this out about vitamin D?

9:59Because I know we had so many questions specifically like Lucy's here. Lucy said, you mentioned in your recent podcast episode that we should all be supplementing 10 milligrams of vitamin D due to the change in weather. So obviously not being able to get that abundant sunlight on our skin day to day in the Northern Hemisphere. I have been searching multiple different brands for a clean supplement to do this. However, I keep stumbling across the majority of the supplements, having ingredients like bulking agents, anti-caking agents, and sucrose in them. I know we should be taking a vitamin D supplement, but I'm cautious to take one when there's so many harmful ingredients in the supplements too.

10:32Can you let me know what you'd recommend and whether as a supplement you would suggest as I fear that own brand supplements, some of the high street brands are actually doing more harm than good. Am I wrong? No, you're wrong about harm. I don't think they're going to harm as such, but there's definitely a hierarchy of supplements, Ella. I mean, I will be back next year of Retrition Plus because the reason I made vitamin D's to begin with was because I was so fed up with what I was seeing. So fed up. To this day, there is still no other vitamin D available that has the same ingredients as my drops, just olive oil and vitamin D.

11:05And it's really sad to see, but it's a price bracket. And there's a reason why supplements are developed in the way they are. It's cost efficiency, it's business, it's fulfillment companies, it's all the different things that are involved in making a supplement. And you have to charge so much to make a profit. But the ingredients itself aren't harmful. And I just worry people just aren't taking this. Everybody in the winter months needs to be taking vitamin D. So just remember that but the dose is really key here and the type a lot of people use the cheaper type in the supplement from sheep's wool lanolin and i actually chose to use algae based um colicociferol which is a vitamin d3 which is a really um easy to absorb form of the supplement for the body and if you're going to get a spray the reason there's so many extra ingredients in a spray form ella as you know is because to get a spray not to stick which is what we had such problems of Retrition Plus, I didn't want to put so much in, but then it's really hard to get anything to stay in spray form and not clog at the top of the device that you're using.

12:04And also to not separate within the mixture and to taste palatable for an adult. You kind of do need to add some extras there, but there's still a line with how much. If you want the cleanest supplement out there, you go for the baby drops because they still contain the same amount as in the adults that's recommended, which is your vitamin D in your 10 microgram dose? We're back really to the same answer as the question beforehand, which is just this humongous challenge because ultimately there are nothing as good as Ries, obviously, but there are some good brands out there that have vitamin D3 in oil and having vitamin D is fat soluble.

12:43So that's why the kind of best quality ones that are in an oil base. It's just a lot more expensive than the kind of own brand ones that you're referencing that have those products in. And so that's the real challenge is ultimately kind of we can sit here and say like, no, there are really good ones out there and they don't have those added ingredients in. And, you know, from my perspective, it's the sense of look, UPFs are everywhere. We all consume them. We're all going to consume them. We shouldn't be stressed about that, but it's about getting the balance right. And so if we can not consume in our supplements that's probably a win because we're going to get them when we go trick or treating on Halloween or whatever it is instead they are just much more expensive and Ree's made them you know that that's the reality is to make them without those products in it's it's really difficult it's really difficult to produce high quality supplements en masse and that's why a lot of the big companies just don't do clean ingredients but I will say is watch the dose I've seen a real trend of people and I was actually asked to speak on channel 5 news about this last week, but I was away about people taking too much.

13:44Because it's fat soluble, it builds up inside your body. You don't excrete it like you would vitamin C, which you can see the color of your urine change to bright yellow, you know, if you take too many vitamins and minerals in a supplement form. And in most cases, unless you have a blood test and you can see you are deficient, deficient means under the recommended amount that you have and you need to dose with a higher amount, then you should not be taking higher than the 10 micrograms recommended. And the reason that's a safe public health limit is purely because it builds up over time. So you want to have these small doses consistently.

14:17And that's a safe recommended amount. And I really worry when I see people recommending these huge doses of vitamin D, because before you know it, people can get too much. So just be very wary, guys, unless you take a blood test, I don't recommend taking more than the public health recommendation. I think that kind of summarizes it really. and then also try and do vitamin d3 instead of d2 if you can again it does unfortunately tend to often be a little bit more expensive and then the other reminder if you're not having it in one of the fat-based products so the ones that have olive oil and etc is to try and have it with food that contains a little bit fat because it is fat soluble and lots of them coconut oil still okay guys but it is a saturated fat but tiny minimal amounts i'd rather you worry more like kella said about your trick or treating and other stuff and how much you get than that tiny amount.

15:08But it is a daily thing we take in the winter. So it was a very, very good question. I hope that's been helpful for you. The next question we've got is from Ellen. She said, Oh, I'm a Colombian expat living in Laos. Beautiful. I love your podcast and try to integrate everything I learned from it as much as possible. She said, I love the philosophy of the daily habits. And I wanted to ask in terms of the things that count as 30 plants a week, do things like coffee, tea and chocolate counts, secretly hoping the answer is yes, but happy to always add more variety to my meals. Thank you. Oh, love that, Ellen.

15:45Thank you. First of all, love that you're from Colombia, now living in Laos. What a journey. So yeah, brilliant. And thank you as well for mentioning the daily-ish habits. I think that is so much both of our philosophy, those small daily habits that just last. It's not about perfection. It's such a great question, isn't it, Rae? A hundred percent. So essentially, yeah, is the answer there with 30 plants a week. I think we should definitely touch on the fact that so many things count. Also, did I say Laos instead of Laos? Is it Laos? Laos. Laos, gorgeous. I've never been. I would love to go there.

16:18The diversity of plant points is really important. And even herbs and spices count as a quarter a point. But this is also debated. There's no exact thing. And I just think count everything as a point and that's easier. Yeah, that's where I've gotten to because some people count a herb or a spice as a quarter and some people count them as a whole. It depends who you ask. And so there is no exact science, but the reality is we've all got enough on our minds. Once you start having quarters, it becomes a bit of a kind of faffy process. And so I think if you had a teaspoon, count it as a whole get that win in where you can certainly wear ice it so yes coffee definitely counts um instant and decaf too since they all come from the coffee beans and then the chocolate i'm so happy about this ella and i are huge chocolate fans if it's minimally processed 70 or higher because that contains more polyphenols and my favorite little tip is the dark chocolate if you have hot chocolate drinks like i do all year round because i am a hot chocolate fiend with my velvetizer.

17:22That helps increase stem cells. So really cool bit of research there. Tea is a bit more of a gray area. I think it's because of the way it's processed. The quality of tea, again, just like we said with supplements before that, Ella, it's just to manufacture high quality tea, it does cost a lot more. You're looking at the teabag, you want the whole leaf within the teabag itself. And most people don't drink the whole leaf, whereas you're drinking ground coffee beans, just to explain it to you. But in a tea bag, you're not. It's like an osmosis effect of filtration and water. But some of the phytonutrients are helpful, like with green tea.

17:56So olive oil also counts. Some people don't count olive oil, though. Oh, I do. I count olive oil. I think it should be. And I think it is probably like the ultimate example. Like this just isn't an exact science. Take every win where you can. As I said, yes, some people have herbs as a quarter. Some people have them as a whole. Some people have olive oil as a quarter or none. Some people have it as a whole. The only thing I think people generally don't count is something like a plant milk, just because it's like 1 % almond, for example, generally speaking. And so you're not getting that fiber, et cetera, that are going to feed your gut bacteria.

18:30But my sense is take your wins where you can. It is not an exact science. There is no one out there who will say 100 % it's all about x y or z you know we talked to remember with fede from zoe and she was saying you know they count every little bit of herb and spice that you add yeah i love that i think it's such a nice one isn't it just add more add more in and there's loads of benefits to that which we know which are really researched i'm writing about it in the fiber formula ella's got plant points in her new book quick wins which is out soon so we just think it's a really nice philosophy to have

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20:19And our listeners get 10 % off their first month at betterhelp.com slash wellness scoop. That's betterhelp.com slash wellness scoop. Okay, so our next question comes from Danielle and Danielle said, I'm really enjoying the podcast content. Thanks, Danielle. Keep up the great work. Firstly, I thought you'd like to know, I now eat a few walnuts every day after hearing all the health benefits on the pod. My question's a little bit different as I actually make a concerted effort to incorporate lots of diversity into my diet. The trouble is I really struggle to digest many healthy foods like chickpeas, butter beans, garlic, broccoli, cauliflower.

20:52I experience a lot of bloating to the point where I have to ration or totally avoid these foods. Do you have any tips on which beans or pulses I may tolerate better or ways to help me digest these trigger foods? Taking digestive enzymes, for example, building up from small to large quantities doesn't really work for me. And I'd love to be able to properly enjoy these nutritious ingredients again. And this is something we've also heard a fair amount on. So Danielle, you are not alone. Yeah, absolutely. we had a whole episode on bloating as well with Catherine Ribess from the Retrition Clinic. And it's a very methodical process.

21:25And you're right, starting small and building won't work for everybody. And digestive enzymes don't work either. It's one of those big myths when you need to get to the bottom of the problem before you can start adding things because otherwise, you'll never know. Rhi, can I just pause you there actually and just ask, what is a digestive enzyme? Because I feel like this is a very popular supplement, something you read about a fair amount. What actually are they? And not to take us totally off topic, I promise, Danielle, we'll come back to your question. But what are digestive enzymes and do they actually do anything?

21:55Yeah, of course. We actually had a recent study conducted on this that we were discussing in the retrition clinic. I'm going to try and dig that out because it's somewhere in my emails. But essentially, it's trying to mimic all of the natural enzymes, like you get lactase to break down lactose or galactase, different enzymes that help break down a process, different types of proteins. And there's a theory that by taking it in a capsule, you are essentially helping your body break down the food if you take it before a meal. Sadly, our body just doesn't work that way. There's no scientific evidence to back up that they are helpful in the process.

22:32It's really, really interesting. And they have been tried and tried again and again in scientific research. A A lot of them can include amylase, protease, lactase, sucrase, lots of different interesting things, but they come in a big bulk, loads of them together. And that's also part of the problem. And then in a capsule, it basically just gets destroyed in your stomach acid the minute it hits your stomach. So it's not really going to help the process where your saliva in your mouth essentially is the first type of enzyme that breaks down food. So what you want to be doing, first of all, is stopping the extra supplements, getting a notepad, pen and paper and start your symptoms.

23:10Start off on what we do in the clinic would be a day of basically cooked foods you can tolerate. Have a normal day with no symptoms. Then the next day you introduce one singular item without stress on a day where you're happy, you've had lots of sleep, you had lots of water and it's a trial and error process. It's much easier to do it supervised but there is no golden bullet because we're all different Ella and sometimes it can help. probiotics might be beneficial so some supplementation to support gut bacteria might be beneficial to help support your gut bacteria but you kind of want to start on a beige neutral ground and then build things to it because otherwise you'll never know where your symptoms are coming from is it stress that you're just not breaking down your food well is there an intolerance is there something we need to discover and you only know it by keeping a food diary that's very methodical.

24:02I hope that does explain it. But if you need help, you can go to your GP, you can get on a waiting list. Now, it might be a long waiting list on the NHS, but you can ask to see a dietitian to go for a FODMAP diet. A FODMAP diet essentially stands for fermentable, oligodisaccharides, monosaccharides, polyols. So all the different types of fiber strains that can cause you to have digestive reaction to because our body kind of fizzes when it eats them all and you can get some bloating, extra gas, and not everybody can tolerate these components very well. A FODMAP diet should always be supervised, always, because you have to take food out and then reintroduce it.

24:40And it can be restrictive and trigger eating disorders or disordered eating habits. So it's really important. Get on that waiting list. Or if you want to, you can see the Retrition Clinic. You can also email info at retrition.com if you want to book in to see a dietician. But a free option is definitely get on a waiting list if you want to go down a FODMAP diet. it's really complex digestive issues they're really not something that there's one magic fix for because everyone's so unique yeah and i think that again speaks to i feel like we're slightly bashing supplements at the moment um as a general rule and it's not that they don't have a time and a place but i think this like magic bullet by digestive enzymes and all would be good is probably just a bit too much wishful thinking if you are having that real digestive challenge if only they did work honestly if only that would solve your problems but sadly i think the money you probably spend every month on those could be saved towards an actual consultation with someone that could probably help you.

25:34That is such a great way of thinking about it. Okay, Alison's question is our next question is really brilliant, actually. And it really is a nice tangent from Danielle. She's asking, are all beans born equal? I love beans so much. I love that they're trending. But is any bean nutritionally better than the other? For example, a company like Bold Bean Co, those of you not in the UK as like a premium bean in a glass jar. Is it worth paying four times more for those? Or is a tin of traditional baked beans a sin? What about pouches like Merchant Gourmet? Are they UPFs? You've talked so much about the challenges as well of eating on the move.