The Oat Milk Backlash, Glucose Spikes & UPF Lawsuits

24:38It's crazy. But I'm sad as well. It was, I don't blame you when you're watching half an hour. I was crying and my husband turned around. He's like, why are you watching that? It's like, I said I'd watch it for the podcast. He's like, this is clearly triggering you. He's like, turn it off. So I'd have to end the night with my friend Lucy's in-law was on Love Island All Stars, Scott. So I was like, let's just watch half an hour of Scott and Love Island before we go to bed after watching this because I need something that's so opposite. It's heavy. Everyone, it's heavy. It's a warning, but equally, it's really sad and it might put people off making healthy changes too.

25:16But I really hope it doesn't. Yeah, I really hope it doesn't. Very quick on recommendations this week. I just need to second the deodorant recommendation for a few weeks ago because I'm three weeks in now. So I think it's a time to actually say everything is good. Fussy deodorant 10 out of 10 by far the best natural deodorant i have ever used that's huge that's a huge accolade ella i know so i keep it short and sweet but that is my recommendation if you heard it a few weeks ago i can now validate reese claims that it is the best natural deodorant in town and all this came because i came into the studio thinking i smelled that one day so my recommendation is amanda land if anyone out there i know this isn't for everybody but if you liked Motherland and you ever watched that on BBC it is just hilarious and it's just such an easy watch and they're quick like the episodes are not too long you know it's like half an hour max I think and then the second one I've got Ella for her children the belly bugs book which I think is just such a genius idea to get children talking about gut health so you take that home with you Ella.

26:16I'm so excited to read it to them it's a really sweet cartoon your belly bugs guide to happy eating and it's trying to explain to kids the importance of their gut health because I think all of that gamification in terms of why it's important to eat your five a day is so important and we count our five a day actually at home with the kids and it's really good as well. Brilliant right should we move on to the health headlines? Let's do it. It is so important to me that my home feels like a calm and cozy sanctuary from the chaos of the world. I found that beyond decorating sensory things like warm smells and soft textures make the biggest impact for that.

26:54And especially as it cools down outside, I'm looking for the best ways to snuggle up on my couch. I recently moved and one of the very first things I added to my new living room was my bubble cuddle blanket from Cozy Earth. It's a faux fur material that is so incredibly soft and has this cool bubble design that makes it look and feel very plush. It's a mid-weight construction, so I've honestly decided against getting a weighted blanket because it's not too heavy, but you still get that feeling of security when you lie under it. My roommate has said it's her new favorite blanket, and we've been keeping it on the couch at all times instead of the blanket basket with the rest of our options.

27:30I've also been loving my bamboo sheets from Cozy Earth. The temperature regulating capabilities were great for the summer, and now that it's getting a little cooler at night, I'm just really appreciating the softness of the sheets and pillowcases. It's like I'm slipping into a cloud every night. Plus, you can try them risk-free with Cozy Earth's 100-night sleep trial. If you don't love them, you just return them hassle-free, but believe me, you're going to be hooked after the first night. So if you're looking to make your home a little more cozy this fall, head to CozyEarth.com and use my code SCOOP for 20 % off.

28:00That's CozyEarth.com code SCOOP. And if you get a post-purchase survey, make sure you let them know you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Because home isn't just where you live, it's how you feel. So let's go home with Cozy Earth. at sierra discover top workout gear at incredible prices which might lead to another discovery your headphones haven't been connected this whole time awkward discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices sierra let's get moving okay so we're moving on to the health headlines that matter so this is the section where we break down the biggest health stories that are making news and what is on our agenda this week so picking up from last week first of all let's follow on from the household waste stats that we've got, Ella.

28:42So global food waste was a country. So if it was a country, it would be the world's third largest emitter after China and USA. I know. It's crazy, isn't it? I had these in the tip of my tongue last week, but I didn't want to get them wrong when we were talking about food waste in terms of the cost of eating. So I just wanted to pop them in this week because I think it is food for thought. The UK alone weighs almost 10 million tons of food each year. And I think we all are quick to think, well, that's restaurants, that's industry. It's actually not. Two million tonnes of that food waste comes from the food industry.

29:14So the other 80%, that's households. And that includes, wait for it, 5.8 million whole potatoes and 900 ,000 tonnes of bread every single year. That amount of bread is the equivalent to a mind-blowing 24 million slices every day of bread that we're throwing away. So I think it's just the point that basically we should talk about it probably another week. But food waste is such a massive issue. And in terms of things being expensive and the environmental impacts of our food and our diet, it's just, I think, an important thing for us all to realize that actually it all adds up. And you think throwing one slice of bread away is not the end of the world, but actually collectively, 24 million slices a day just in this country.

29:56And I also was talking about a number of people who don't live with a fridge as well. And I wanted to just fact check myself on that. And it was, it's about 900 ,000 people in this country who are living without a fridge. So it's easy for us to talk about healthy eating, but it's important that we all kind of just remember as well, actually, just so inaccessible for too many people, which is a fundamental issue that we need to rectify in this country. My goodness. No, it's so true. It's just not. And actually, it reminded me of something, you know, you asked me at the start, what did you find out in the book that was really interesting?

30:25And there is a page on the environmental impact of ultra processed foods. And what is interesting is the record number rising, you know, figures that we've got for household waste at the same time as the invention of ultra-processed foods. So we made food to be more convenient for our health to last longer for people in different situations, but it's kind of backfired heavily because the food waste numbers are just going up and up at the same time as having these items on the shelf. So the correlations are stark, really. You can't deny them. Really interesting. OK, so our first headline this week, it really freaked me out.

30:59There's no two ways around that. I kept visualising, you know, the name of the headline. So microplastics found in human brains. And I kept, it made me feel funny, you know, when you go tingly and it makes you actually physically think of like a lump of plastic sat in your head. I know. Should we be worried? Essentially, there was a groundbreaking study that was published in Nature Medicine that made headlines around the world. And it confirmed that microplastics, so tiny, really tiny fragments of plastic, so as small as a hundred thousandth of a width of a human hair. So microscopic. but they are accumulating in human brains, liver and kidneys as well as other organs.

31:35And what came out was that researchers have been analysing tissue samples and it's from 52 individuals who have died between 2016 and 2024. And they found 50 % more microplastics in brain tissue from those who died in 2024 versus 2016. And then when they're looking at that versus samples dating back from 1997, so almost 30 years ago that suggests that contamination has been increasing exponentially over time which obviously reflects the global rise of plastic pollution. I think just let's just pause for a second because if anyone listening who's like me and I think I can say for Ella as well you get health anxiety a little bit you know this is majorly triggering as well we've got quite a deep episode today but I too have been there thinking oh my goodness there's plastic in everything and I didn't even realise even my children having you know plastic cups at home You know, the cute ones, the little cartoon images on them and all sorts of things.

32:30And we have to also be kind on ourselves and realize that we do live in a different world. And this is very, very new. It's very, very new. I think the most concerning thing that came out of this research was that the brain samples from people with dementia contained up to six times more microplastics than those without the disease. Obviously, scientists very quick to stress that this does not confirm a causal link between microplastics in the brain and dementia or plastic in your lifestyle. But obviously, these findings are raising very, very urgent questions for them to be looking at about whether or not microplastics are contributing to neurological disorders.

33:08And that also includes things like strokes, and they're looking at heart attacks as well. And interestingly, there's more plastic in the brain was their findings than the other organs. So these cadaver brain samples contain seven to 30 times more microplastics in the brains than in the kidneys and liver. So it is really extraordinary. And this bit is kind of mind boggling as well with the amount that they were then seeing in the brains. Today's brains are now 99.5 % brain and 0.5 % plastic. I mean, that is like if you take one thing from the episode, I think that is extraordinary. and in the case anyone's curious the plastics enter the brain so these nanoplastics which is the tiniest form of the plastic they can basically they can scientists are saying cross the blood brain barrier and they hitch on to lipids so fats from your diet which are then absorbed into the brain and that's how they get in there because the brain is made up of 60 % fat and it's really dependent on this lipid this fat transport so they've also found microplastics and liver and kidney samples as we said but previous research is also showing it in blood, semen, breast milk, placentas, bone marrow.

34:17So it is it's really scary and the research shows that we can probably flush it out of the liver and the kidneys but it's really unknown whether or not the brain can clear these out. If we look at how society's evolved in the time span from this study so I don't have the paper to hand in front of me now but I can only imagine dissecting and pulling it apart. You're looking at 1997 here, and then you're going all the way up to 2024. So in that time, we switched over to plastic baby bottles to put formula milk in. So we're starting in infancy all the way up in a plastic world. There was a time when people would only drink water out of plastic bottles all the time.

34:56Things were being heated in our bags. Microwave mills. We could look at also, we don't know the quality of life there's data samples on. No, but what we do know is that plastic, global plastic production has doubled since 2002 and it's projected to double again by 2040. So we think it's basically raising this like very urgent need to understand what is the link. Like do microplastics affect human health in exactly what way? And then do we need to reduce exposure? But probably to everyone listening, I am literally going to have this running list in my mind of all of the plastic in my house right now.

35:30It's in fish. It's already in the food system for so many people as well. So we can't avoid it. That's what I find so overwhelming by it is that we will be absorbing plastics. It's in the clothes that people can wear. I think a lot of people realise that you wear synthetic fibres. That's also a form of plastic, but that's more affordable. This is a much bigger headline. It's huge. It is absolutely huge. And it is, as you said, like in terms of health anxiety, I find it really hard not to find it quite terrifying. and so I'm sure lots of you listening are the same. I think the one thing I'd say is it is always important, I think, to bring yourself back to trying to find a reasonable balance for yourself because if you try and get to this point of perfectionism, eliminate all plastic, eliminate all ultra-processed foods, cook from scratch 21 times a week, as in three meals a day, seven days a week, all the rest of it, hold down a job.

36:23It just becomes so impossible and so I think it's just trying to... So let's definitely bring it in the extra scoop. We should get a plastic expert. We need somebody out there, a scientist. I want the scientist that did this study. Me too. I want someone to tell me to stop freaking out. But I am thinking about plastic, like plastic Tupperware that I still have. Is that necessary? Well, also, I think one change you can make, like a positive spin on this, is that, OK, we can't control it everywhere. But in your home, maybe be very wary. Do not heat things on plastic plates anymore. Heat them on a normal China plate or something.

36:54and try and switch your lunchboxes to glass ones, which you can buy. There's loads on Amazon that you can get these really cool glass lunchbox Tupperware. I've got loads of those. Yeah, no, I think that's a good shout. I will be having a quick look through my cupboards tonight. And don't worry, we'll get an expert in to reassure us all on this headline. So Ella, headline number two. Oh my gosh, actually my colleague sent this to me because it was in a magazine called The Grocer, which is the UK's leading grocery trade magazine. If you work in the food industry, it's a big deal. If you don't work in the food industry, you probably have never heard of it.

37:26But the headline was, could ultra-processed foods face a legal challenge? And so lawyers are considering, and I stress considering, bringing a class action lawsuit against major food companies in what would be an unprecedented legal challenge to the UK food and drink sector. So there's a law firm called Lee Day, and they are investigating whether food manufacturers have knowingly made their products addictive. So essentially using neuroscience-based tactics to increase consumption, a bit like the gambling and tobacco industries have been accused of in the past. So for people listening, that's making it hyperpalatable.

38:00And also what I've looked at for the book is things that are easier to chew that have a softer palate because we actually eat more of the food in a shorter space of time, increasing our calorie consumption. And also with the more additives, different ingredients we put in, sugar, salt, fat, everything, we can obviously eat a lot more of this stuff than if we'd made it from scratch and it tasted quite bland. Exactly. So obviously no legal action has been taken yet, but there are these discussions happening as well with policy experts about whether these big food companies should be held responsible for some of these health impacts of UPFs, which have obviously been linked to rising obesity, diabetes, heart disease.

38:36And interestingly, there's actually quite a few lawsuits which are already underway in the US. So in December, there was a law firm that sued Mondelez, Kraft Heinz, Coca-Cola, Nestle and a few others, accusing them of deliberately designing addictive UPFs that overwhelmingly target children. And another law firm is preparing legal action apparently against the FDA, arguing that weak regulations have allowed really harmful products to flood the market. Can I tell you something I turned down last year, which probably is one of these products? I was approached by one of those huge companies and they have a children's food like an instant powder that's called porridge for babies.

39:13But in these porridges, it was labeled as honey and really sweet flavorings for a baby under the age of 12 months to have. And to me, I just thought, why are you approaching me? This is totally pointless. But I saw other influencers take it. It was a huge amount of money. It would have probably transformed my life. But I obviously turned it down. but they have massive budgets and you should not be feeding babies that amount of sugar. I was shocked when I read the ingredient list and they were reluctant to give it to me, Ella. So I asked four times on email, how can you expect me to consider a partnership without showing me what's inside the product?

39:48And that was one of those you just listed. That's so interesting. I'll tell you after the episode because I don't want to draw public attention to it. Let's not get sued. Six episodes in, let's not have a lawsuit. but yeah it is absolutely fascinating you said and I think it obviously nothing's happened yet Lee Dave really clear to insist no lawsuit has been filed but there is this obviously mounting global scrutiny on ultra processed foods hence your book demystifying it for people and so there is this increasing pressure and I think questioning more than anything on the food industry of like did you know that these things were going to be so bad and how much are we have have we been altering them to make them that addictive.

40:28And I have to say, I've obviously worked in the food industry for kind of 10 years or so now. And I have visited so many factories. And there's loads of great ones. And there's great people that work there. And I think the manufacturing part of the UK is amazing. And I feel really privileged to be a part of it. But I will say I have been so taken aback by the things that are considered food. And when you have been around these factories, there are many things you would never consider eating ever again because it is foul. Yes, there's various things you see in sort of the grey sludge swirling around that eventually becomes a product and you just think, that's just not food.

41:06Last week you said, you know, if you add anything to it, it becomes a health claim. And you could essentially have a chocolate bar or some grey sludge, add a multivit to it, like you said. That's what we're saying with children's breakfast cereals. Yeah, exactly, which is what they've kind of done here. a load of sugar, let's add a multivitamin and then I can say it's a source of vitamin D for a child and then I can entice someone to buy it. It's like for actually something we were looking at to make a gut health claim even though it had say 10 plant points in it, pumpkin seeds, buckwheat, quinoa, sunflower seeds etc.

41:34We had to add an additive to it essentially in order to be able to make the claim even though it has all the ingredients that your body wants, that is good for your gut, but to make a claim, one must add an additive. And so it's really interesting. It shows how messed up the whole situation is. I've worked for so many food companies that want a high fiber claim. And I'm like, well, you're going to have to add some inulin or something into your product because it's just chicory. You have to add so much stuff to hit the number that's required. Yeah. So it is interesting. And exactly a lot of these companies put a little bit of multivitamin in and then you can make all sorts of claims, which is really interesting.

42:12But I thought this was curious as actually over 60%, this was a data set from Waitrose, over 60 % of their shoppers have now said they're concerned over ultra processed foods, which is leading them to scratch cook more. Yay, love it. It's so great to scratch cook more. But it's also interesting given that no one was talking about this a few years ago. And we got trolled for it. We got trolled. Oh my God, we got trolled. I got compared to Donald Trump in a very reputable magazine for being the ultimate spreader of misinformation. Are you joking? And that's so interesting again. And we will touch on this in another episode, but it's because you're female.

42:46Well, when I was trolled and when I say trolled, I mean kind of taken down many pegs in the media on this. The criticism was only leveled at women. Absolutely mind boggling. But I'd like to talk about what's trending in wellness this week.

43:03OK, so trending in wellness this week, we have got Ella, you find all the best trends. So Ryan Lloyd Haynes, is that right? Yes, I think that's his name. He did this video that's gone completely viral. When I last checked, it had 7 million views on Instagram. Lots of you guys have probably seen it. It just made me laugh so much. I think it summarises everything we're trying to do on here. So I'm going to try and say it as quickly as possible, which is what he does. Okay, so he's just looking straight at camera and he says, I just wanted to confirm that everyone else was doing no screen time before bed, sleeping in a cold room with no coffee before 11am, warm water with lemon as soon as you open your eyes, but no phone for the first two hours, sunlight on your third eye first thing, Red light therapy for half an hour, 10 ,000 steps a day, an ultramarathon with no social media, 12 eggs, raw goat's milk with three avocados, two raw steaks on a full plant-based diet.

43:50Dip down in magnesium spray with ashwagandha, zinc, vitamin B12, sauna gym, cold therapy, but only before the gym because it will affect the gains. Electrolytes, hit your protein goals, two litres of water, but please God, no tap water, no gels, gums, sucralose, sugar, sweetness, no porn, meditation for half an hour a day, all whilst microdosing while replying to WhatsApp, six of which are three-minute-long voice notes. Check in with your friends and family, maintain a relationship, write in your gratitude journal while going to therapy, and not to mention a job and kids. I'm just checking everyone else is doing that.

44:17Genius. Genius. And it's gone completely viral. And I'm not doing him justice because he does it so well. But I think it sums up everything we're trying to do on here, which, oh my goodness me, wellness has gone completely insane and mad. This is why I'm so passionate about this podcast, because as we said at the top, it matters so much that we collectively change our lifestyles, our diets, our management of our stress, our sleep, we need to move our bodies, all the rest of it. But we don't need to do all of that. So yes, it matters. But stop feeling like you need to put a billion tons of pressure on yourself.

44:48Because that list is also, as he's really brilliantly pointing out, is exceptionally contradictory and ironic. I mean, there's about 70 different things on it. 70 different things, which also there's the bit that says 12 eggs, raw goats, milk with three avocados, two raw steaks on a full plant-based diet. Hilarious, yeah. So we're going to talk about two things in our trends today, which are quite linked. The first one is the obsession with measuring your glucose and blood sugar spikes. And the second is oat milk. So you guys have probably seen glucose monitors everywhere right now. Channel 4 did a show in January about blood sugar.

45:22Obviously, the app Zoe has been so popular. We're seeing people talking about this all over social media. And look what I've got on my finger. Yeah. Well, it's a sizing to fit a ring. But let's get into that in a minute when we talk about the health tech. OK, so to give everyone a little bit of background, because you guys know I love background, in recent years, interest in health monitoring technology has just soared. But in 2022, the global digital health market was valued at US$330 billion. And forecasts are suggesting that might exceed US$650 billion by 2025, so the end of this year. 46 % of UK adults, which is really interesting, are using some form of health tracking technology, like a Fitbit or an Apple Watch.

46:03But the new trend of these continuous glucose monitors has become the sort of latest must-have gadget. Can you tell us what is a continuous glucose monitor? It's been really interesting. So when these first came on the scene, my best friend Tanya is type 1 diabetic. And they changed her life. So it meant that you can fit a monitor on your arm. It's got a tiny needle in there. And it measures your blood sugar levels. So she'll know if she's low or if she's high or if she needs to eat something else. And it can monitor her insulin, which essentially, because obviously she can't do that for herself, because type 1 is very different type 2 diabetes, which we should differentiate in terms of meaning that her body cannot produce effectively insulin.

46:41But people type 2, it's more of a lifestyle induced condition. Obviously, different various factors can implement that. But as they are designed for people with diabetes and then seeing the mainstream media lap these up, I found that fascinating. So they've been around since 1999. And that's to help people monitor. Like right now, Ella, if we were wearing them, we would know exactly what our blood sugar levels were doing, which is crazy. And it's just under the skin. It's really like a tiny needle. But it's enough to give you these continuous updates throughout the day. But originally, you needed a prescription to get one.

47:12And that's what I think has been really, there's a positive and a negative to this in terms of accessibility. But in March 2024, the FDA, they approved these monitors for over-the-counter sales. So anyone can buy one without having a prescription. and obviously these apps there are so many of them now that you know like tim specter who i completely respect but he has a personalized nutrition program called zoe and the idea is that you track the blood sugar to help you understand how your body responds to different foods stress sleep and exercise and that's all very well and for some people and i say that with a real caveat i wish i could put that in bold only some people will this be really beneficial for For others, it can induce anxiety, it can be totally unnecessary, and it won't make a difference because you already eat pretty well and the changes that you make in your diet wouldn't really matter.

48:06But for some people, it can help them prevent energy dips, keep inflammation on the low because you're not chronically stressing out your body all the time, and it can sync with your phone. It's interesting, Ella, but it's caused a shortage for people that actually need them because they're diabetic. Yeah, because there's been such a quick spike in demand, hasn't there? So I think I would love for everyone listening to probably take a step back and ask you if you could explain to us in the most basic of terms, what is your blood sugar? Why would we want to monitor it? What is glucose? What's the relevance?

48:36Okay. So let me think how to really simply explain. So everything you eat is energy. And sugar is a really good source of energy. And actually sugar comes in different forms. You get fructose from fruit. You get lactose from dairy. You get glucose from carbs. And we're specifically talking about glucose here because it gets a lot of time and energy and it comes from the foods and drinks that we consume and it impacts the bloodstream. And then insulin that we release from our pancreas, it helps your body absorb it. And the analogy at uni that we used to have is like a lock and a key. Insulin helps.

49:06It's like the key, unlocking the cell to help your cell absorb all of that glucose you've just eaten and then take it to where it needs to go. But one thing that happens for us daily is a blood sugar roller coaster is what I used to call it in clinic. And I remember writing about it in my first book, Renourish, where your blood sugar naturally is meant to go up and down throughout the day. That's what happens. But the peak of your wave or that roller coaster, however high that drop's going to be, is dependent on what you eat, how stressed you are, how well you've slept, and all these other factors.

49:35So our goal in clinic, before all of this came about, before all these blood glucose monitors came about for people that weren't diabetic, was just to try and have a steady line. I used to say, let's try and keep you on one race course that doesn't have any loop-de-loops. Let's just try and keep you straight. And by doing that, you have to eat a balanced plate that contains fats that slow the release of sugars and protein and lots of fiber. But again, back to ultra processed foods. And it's amazing how it all comes back. A lot of these health conversations to the rise of ultra processed foods.

50:05And I wrote about this in the new book is that so many of these items, because they're hyperpalatable, don't have the fiber. They don't have the healthy fats. They contain a lot of readily available energy. and actually I won't go into all the different levels. I actually thought I'd tell you all the different kind of millimoles that you need but I actually think the biggest thing is just to note that it's normal to have these spikes and crashes but if you have it for too long that's raised so if your spike and you're elevating your glucose for a prolonged period of time consistently and not eating well that will cause insulin resistance and it can lead to type 2 diabetes, prolonged inflammation that impacts your blood vessels And that's what leads to things like heart disease, which is a big problem for women in this country just as much as men.

50:50I think there's that stereotype there. So does that kind of explain it for everybody? I think what it does as well, it takes us back to where we were five minutes ago, which is this really interesting tension in the health and well-being world where what we're saying and what you're saying here is that having an awareness of your blood sugar is actually very, very important. because a healthy diet will give you gentle, really nice baby waves where you eat something, as a result, your blood glucose will rise a little bit and it will come back down and it will do it in a slow and steady, like a really nice calming beach.

51:27Yeah, and you know if you have one thing that's going to spike it, it's just a one-off. Exactly, and won't make any difference to anything, which is I think what we really want to get across in this show. but if every day you're having very high sugar very low fiber low healthy fat low protein meals to your point a lot of ultra processed foods and a lot of fast food are kind of the worst culprits for that and instead of having lovely calm tropical beach vibes you've got tsunamis where you're going like you're coming up and you're crashing down and you're coming up and you're crashing down and these are like pointed spikes up and down you will feel really tired you'll feel like you crave more sugar because you've crashed right down your body's like give me energy give me energy in clinic we used to call it the morning coffee run so it would be our classic um people coming to see us in clinic that had an office job to get to and they'd skip breakfast with the rush they grab a coffee then they grab a croissant or something and then it would be a flavored coffee of all the syrups and things and you've got such a start to the day with such a high trot off a high wave that the rest of the day you're then craving that and it sets your whole day off on the wrong foot, or as if they'd started with a healthier fiber-rich breakfast, even like a porridge with some nuts or something, or yogurt, something really easy, then their wave's just going to be setting them up for good decisions.

52:42It affects your decisions. And you don't get that immediate hunger in the same way. But as we're saying, it's this really interesting balance again. If it does matter, we need to educate people on this and empower people, but equally, does everybody, if you're moving towards eating a generally very healthy balanced diet, do you then actually, is there any purpose whatsoever in measuring this? Or is that again, getting to this like alter hyper optimization, hyper perfectionist cycle, which actually removes some joy for your life? My vote goes in that camp. And I'm not talking about people who need to do it.

53:14I think it could be an interesting wake up if you think you're eating healthily, but actually potentially you're not so much. But if what you're eating is very home cooked, it's very natural, it's lots of healthy proteins, healthy fats, whole grains, And I just, to me, it's like it's part of this ridiculous hyper-optimization, as I said, like fixational perfectionism, which I just think removes some of the joy from life. And it's expensive, Ella. It's so expensive. Matt and I both tried one of these programs. We were sent it. We were curious. And it came back at the end. It was like, don't eat donuts.

53:44I'm like, well, I can't eat that, Red. And it was like, yeah, it was my daughter's birthday. We had donuts. It was delicious. I really enjoyed it. And to the whole point, one-off makes no difference. If you're doing that all day, every day, it's very bad for your health. And I honestly think that we've seen it be very successful for some people and not remotely effective for others. And I think it's so important to gauge that, that the best thing you can do for your health is try and cook more meals from scratch and get a bit more sleep and all the basic things that we talk about in here. And you don't have to.

54:13And the reason I'm wearing this trial ring is because I'm actually working at the moment behind the scenes for a health tech app. But they're going to be doing a multitude of areas. So my role as a nutrition consultant is what we do at Retrition a lot. People don't see this work because it's not online. This is what we do. We help companies improve their nutritional recipes, make the high fiber claim. How can a tech app improve their user-friendly nutrition section on their apps? But I'm intrigued by these because apparently they look at your sleep. And I think that if we're using health tech, we need to have a 360-degree picture rather than just one area of it.

54:48So watch this space, everybody. But as you said, I think it's also like you almost need to have all of these things so that you're not having a kind of reductive view of your health, which is also one of the challenges. Because whilst what's happening with your blood sugar is important to what we were just saying, it's not the only thing that's important, but it can become a bit one dimensional. So I think first of all, address just the basics. And once you've done the basics, then if you're interested, add on. but I think it's so important that we get the basics first and we just don't feel we have to be on this ultimately like treadmill of self-optimisation because at what point does it ever end?

55:23It never ends. Exactly. Then you become Brian Johnson. Yeah, you become Brian Johnson and then you're referred to as Donald Trump. So let's... So I think it moves us on perfectly to the second headline we want to talk about which is this oat milk backlash. It's our third headline. Oh my gosh and it's wild. Okay, I'm going to just take out some of the Instagram pictures that I've saved on it. So this one said, Oatly milk has the glycemic load of a Coke and as much oil as a serving of fries. And the next one says, your oat milk flat white is killing you. I have no association with Oatly. I actually don't drink Oatly.

55:58I just wanted to clarify that. But what I'm saying is I think it's so extreme, the conversation around oat milk, and the headlines everywhere. The standard was, where did it all go so wrong for oat milk that I was running? The demise of oat milk. The Independent had the rise of fall of oat milk Has the trendiest dairy alternative Finally fallen from grace Awful, it's so sad It is quite Yeah, it's quite odd isn't it It's so odd We love clickbait, we love extremes in this country But obviously oat milk used to be the kind of go-to dairy alternative And it's just now losing its popularity And so you've got all these viral things online As we were just saying, all these headlines And so much of it's coming back to the claims that it spikes blood sugar because we're all obsessed with blood sugar at the moment in terms of the industry.

56:43And sales are really slowing. So Oatly is by far and away the top oat milk brand. And it barely grew last year in the UK, which is such a huge drop because between 2019 and 2020, it grew 100 % growth. So absolutely booming. And then interestingly, dairy is making a comeback with 81 % of young Europeans drinking cow's milk at least once a week. So I think my big question for you today is can you debunk this for us? Like does oat milk actually spike blood sugar? When you sent me those pictures, I was just so shocked. I mean to say it's killing you. No journalist should ever write that. That wasn't a journalist.

57:24That was an iconograph. I'm going to have a real problem if that's the case. But we're sat here, Ella, very kindly. I was actually in prayer about to order my matcha. And Ella, she texted me at the same time I was in the queue being like, I've got you a matcha. I was like, yes. and we've got oat milk haven't we we've got oat milk yeah so we've got oat milk let me explain for you everybody so these headlines and instagram posts are just unequivocally false i mean it's absolutely wild so the glycemic load the gl which we call it is important because it looks at the both the sugar and the effective serving sizes on the response that we get in our blood so one large glass i've got this written down in front of me of oatly barista edition that's 240 mils guys or a dash in your coffee, 100 ml, is actually low in terms of the measurement for the glycemic load.

58:10And I cannot get this. It's the equivalent to cow's milk in the full fat whole category, which is also low. So as you'd expect... As in officially low. Officially. If you look at the graph of how you... The data. Exactly. It is officially low. Like the blood glucose response to cow's milk and oats drink is perfectly identical. It's exactly the same. There is no difference. And that's because the carbohydrates you find are slightly different. So lactose in cow's milk versus maltose and starchy carbs you get in oat drinks. And despite these differences, both drinks are in the low category. So it's something you just do not need to think about.

58:43And to give you some extra context, a fizzy drink, so 250 ml obviously, has a GL of nearly double that of oat milk. And a 500 ml bottle of fizzy drinks has a calculated GL value in the high category. So scientifically, it's absurd. Yeah, it's just officially wrong. Yeah, I don't even know what else to say. It's just so wrong. And I think it's also important to cut back to what we were just saying a moment ago, which is that our bodies naturally regulate our blood sugar with insulin. So if you're eating a healthy diet and generally you're looking after yourself and your meals are well balanced and you're getting your healthy fats and your proteins and your whole grains and all the good stuff, and then you really like to have a splash of oat milk in your coffee, in your matcha, that's all good.

59:29The idea that like that could kill you I don't know it just feels so extreme. I just hate that the word anyway kill I just think it you know with the cur pronunciation when I say it out loud I just think it's so intense obviously. It's absolutely wild and I think then people are saying that it's a bloat milk because it causes loads of bloating. Can you talk us through that? It's just not scientifically possible unless you drink it really really quickly and engulp loads of air while you're gulping down your milk. and have a couple of cartons at once. Yeah, and just, I don't know, what are you doing?

1:00:00Maybe you're sat down, hunched over at your desk. But bloating is one of those things we'll get our extra scoop. We'll do an expert on bloating. Because we do, I've got someone really good we can have on for that. But no, please don't panic about your oat milk, everyone. We could talk for a very long time on it, but the seed oils are so minimal. The fortification's there to give you nutrition and the glycemic load is low. It's an interesting example because obviously most oat milks would be classified as ultra-processed. how do you feel about that with all your knowledge of ultra processed foods i think that unless you are drinking liters of it a day i think it's a good example of an ultra processed food with benefits you know what about the that is so high for lactose intolerance i think it's around 60 to 70 percent of people in the world are lactose intolerant like they can't actually have dairy so how can we not have alternatives for these people and then what if you can't have dairy and you can't have soy, then what else are you meant to drink?

1:00:52And you can't have nuts. It's just remember everybody. Remember our privilege of options that we have out there. How amazing there's a drink for people that can't have the other things too. And so much of this is about quantities, isn't it? The problem with ultra processed foods is that it's making up over half of our diets now. It's not about a splash in coffee. So I think it's just context. Yeah, it's so context. And even if your big ultra processed meal of the day is your breakfast cereal and your fortified milk, I would say the health benefits of having that outweigh the negative impacts of the ultra processed food.

1:01:23And I have an example of that in the book, a comparison of these different items, but it's the lunches and dinners most of the time with ultra processed ingredients that start to make a difference on our health. That's really interesting. And I think it's also one more thing. Oatmeal is not even my milk. Drink of choice. No, it's not even my drink of choice. But I just think this is an important one to say, which is that oat milk is so much better for the environment. It uses 93 % less water, 72 % less carbon dioxide, 99 % less land than producing the equivalent litre of cow's milk. And that is taken from a leading study from Oxford University.

1:02:01So again, I'm not kind of saying never have dairy milk. I'm not saying only drink oat milk. I don't think either of us are. But I think just please, please, please don't freak out when you see things. Like the one saying that oat milk has more oil than fries and more sugar than Coke. It's like, well, it really doesn't. Unless you're sitting here drinking like three or four cartons in any one go, which would just be an odd issue in and of itself, potentially. And full disclosure, we were not paid by Oatly or Oat Milk Company to do this feature on this podcast right now. No, I just seeing it everywhere.

1:02:33And loads of people have sent it to us saying, can you talk about this? Because I've worked with them before on myth busting. But I think it's really important because a lot of the time you hear, oh, they're sponsored by these people to say that. But we're not. We're literally raising this topic because it's in the headlines. And also because I really do like a milk matcha. So I wanted to get a bit of personal reassurance on that. And that moves us on to our last thing for today, which is our listeners question. And we actually had lots of listeners questions on this. So I don't have one particular one to read out.

1:03:02But it's a follow up from what we've been talking about on protein, which is that there's a lot of conversation asking whether we need more protein as we age. It's a big buzz topic at the moment causing quite a lot of confusion for our listeners. Will you give us a nice little answer for that? Oh we love protein. I mean there's such a hype. As we discussed in the protein episode which was that our number two? I think it was number two yeah. Yeah it was number two. As we go on I'll forget which number episodes we get to but basically yes we do as we age need more protein than younger adults but that's simply because our muscle mass decreases as we age so you really need the protein to help you maintain muscle mass and function.

1:03:37But that does not mean you need to go out and buy bags of protein powder and really panic about hitting a certain amount at every meal because protein synthesis works across the course of the day rather than after each individual meal. But we need to be aware because rates of sarcopenia, osteoporosis increase as estrogen for females, this is our female hormone declines. And one thing I remember when I was training at university was it's recommended to go on the contraceptive pill for some women at periods of their life to protect their bone health if they're not you know getting the oestrogen that's required so I'm not saying that's a recommendation everybody that's just some of the science that we were learning about oestrogen decline and how it impacts our bone health.

1:04:18And what sort of age does this start to happen? 25 onwards it's quite depressing. I know Ella's face but I mean in terms of muscle mass and bone mass we don't start adding to it it just kind of depletes very slowly over the course of each year, it goes down a very minimal amount. But it probably accelerates as we go through menopause because of that estrogen decline or perimenopause, which for most women, perimenopause symptoms probably around 40, very early. But some women can go through actual menopause as early as like mid 40s and different cultures experience it earlier than others. And we'll definitely have an expert on again for menopause that can do it more justice.

1:04:53But older adults should consume around one to 1.2 grams of protein per kilo of body weight. Yeah, it's probably around like 25 to 30 grams at each meal. And do you know what? It's much easier to achieve that than you think. I promise. And in the book as well, I should say I put protein because I knew everyone would ask for it. I've kind of given up hiding. I'd never do calories. But everyone wants to know how much protein is in their meal these days. So I did put a little note. But as you said, it's actually so much easier than you think getting it in. And that, again, every little helps, which is that it's things like the table.

1:05:22What slogan is that? Isn't that the one, the bum patch? It's either Tesco or – no, it's not. No, it is. It's one of the supermarkets. What's the one that does the... It's Asda. Oh, yeah, that's Asda. I think it might be Asda. Yeah. Someone will tell us. I'm sure of that. But it's that thing where it's like another tablespoon of pumpkin seeds will add a good, like up to five grams or so of protein. But it will also be adding really healthy fats. It's adding great vitamins and minerals. It's getting your plant points in there. So we think as well, it's like when you're thinking about that extra protein, it's a really nice opportunity to potentially add in foods or like quinoa, for example, is a whole grain, like really rich in protein.

1:05:59That's got all the amino acids. That's basically got all the same amino acids in it that animal produce has. Totally, and really good for your gut. So don't think when you hear protein, like, okay, you just need to eat loads of chicken at every single meal. Again, it's not that every meal has to be veggie, but there's so many different... Chicken and rice, the classic Instagram thing that was going around, wasn't it? Exactly, rank. Whereas if you're thinking I need a bit more protein, there are ways of adding it into every meal that also support extra plant points and gut health and fibre. and so you can do it all together.

1:06:27So just a little food for thought. But thank you guys for listening. Thank you for bearing with us with all our big news. It's exciting and it's so nice to be able to chat it through here. Oh my goodness. I mean, the nerves. I think I'm bright red as we speak because it's quite hot in here. But equally, I feel a sigh of relief because I knew I was going to share it with you all today and I'm sure Ella felt the same. But when you're actually speaking about yourself and not the headlines we're reading, it's a really difficult thing to do. So I just hope that plants can help everybody out there and the unprocessed plate can help you all too.

1:06:57And we can't wait to tune in Monday with more headlines. Every week we just have too much to talk about. So we will see you next week.

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