The Reason Healthy Habits Fail, Food Guilt & Nervous Systems

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1:00Welcome to the Wellness Scoop. your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are here as your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhianna Lambert. And today we're delving into all of the wonderful questions that you've been sending us here on our Extra Scoop. So let's go. Rhianna, what have we got coming up in today's show for you guys? Okay, so today we have the four burners theory and whether balance actually exists, why we know what's healthy but we still struggle to do it i think that's something we can all relate to building wellness habits when friends prioritize aesthetics over health so that is another deep dive um leading off the back of last week's discussion on stacy the all or nothing food trap and creating a more intuitive relationship with eating breath work for beginners and calming the nervous system, sustainable omega-3s and whether smoked mackerel still contains healthy fats, sugar cravings, Crohn's disease and reducing food guilt and then why wellness doesn't have to look perfect to be effective.

2:06It's a big episode today Ella. Yes there is so much to get into. Ri, first of all though have you got any good recs for us? Anything we need in our lives? Okay foodie rec and I promise I will get around to sharing the recipe as well on socials but from my book I have these grape fennel bars because when you run out of berries, berries are quite expensive per punnet. Grapes are significantly cheaper and actually you can get the similar amount of antioxidants, people don't realise this, from a red grape as you can from blueberries. So I've got the most incredible baked grape oat bars and then I add fennel seeds on top with sprinklings of brown sugar and honestly that's a wreck that I will be sharing, I promise.

2:46It's in the Fibre Formula book if you check it out and then I went to the cinema and I finally saw Devil West Prada. Oh my gosh I haven't done it yet and I'm desperate to. Was it good? Do you know what it was very hard to actually find a slot in the cinema very last minute at a time that suits you because it was so full still and it's been going it's been out for ages. I loved it. I really did. Miranda Priestly wasn't as Miranda as she was before but I think that's because you know we grow of age and what's so beautiful is that was really the narrative was really like I don't want to give it away.

3:18It's very hard to discuss a film when you don't want to give it away but I've thoroughly enjoyed it and it's worth the hype I would say this one it was really lovely to watch well I'm very excited to see it I also like what you said on grapes sometimes I see people online being like grapes or sugar bombs and I want to be like okay anyways and I think we've kind of very important message obviously you know if you don't love veg or you know maybe children don't love veg like fruit loads and loads of goodness in there so it's so nice hearing that I I think I admitted the other day like I don't love like uncooked fruit yes or not in a smoothie anyway roasted grapes you know you put them in your oat bars roasted grapes are so nice well also um in traditional french cooking and actually in spain they add a lot of black grapes and things to traditional if you're a meat eater to chicken dishes and casseroles and stews i love adding grapes to my salads as you know i've mentioned all my chickpeas and things in and i think just adding some fruit i know it's something to get your head around i think in this country with heated up fruit that isn't a dessert and having it as part of a main but honestly it's some dishes it really complements check us out ella i mean you're definitely more of a chef than i but we're gourmet you know these jus adding a bit of mediterranean i love it okay i'm very excited to try this we also have a recommendation for you re from julia um one of our listeners she's a re your ongoing love for bees and the documentary that you mentioned made me think you'd absolutely love The History of Bees by Marja Lunday.

4:46It's a beautiful work of fiction that weaves together three storylines across different time periods, all connected through bees and what their disappearance means for humanity. It's moving, thought-provoking, and honestly, one of the most memorable reads I've had in years. I highly recommend. Oh, Julia, thank you. I 100 % will check that out. That's going to be my new bit of reading this week because I could go on and on about the bees. Ella, did you have any recommendations before we move on to the next? I thought this would have worked out perfectly for me because I actually don't have any.

5:17You didn't have to say anything. So I was thinking the bees, I was like, Ella didn't give us anything, but we've got the bee rec, so it's fine. Do you know what I've been making is a cherry tomato tart tata. Oh yes, you said you were going to make that. So it went well. Yeah, it was so good. I'm really into balsamic at the moment. That's not a recommendation because everyone likes it. But you know when you like, not forget about an ingredient, but you kind of like bring it back to front of mind. I've just been using on salads, whereas now I'm like, oh, I'm really cooking with it front and centre, like roasted balsamic red onions, like really kind of jammy and juicy and stuff.

5:50I'm into focaccia with balsamic and olive oil because it's the heat wave and it's so hot. And I just love serving like a focaccia bread or something really delicious and just dipping it in, you know, that olive oil lashings. I just love it. It's like a whole bowl of it. Oh my gosh, focaccia is, it's a dream, isn't it? I'm obsessed. Julia had a second wreck. I've just missed that off. I'm sorry Julia um the four burners theory yes so thank you for flagging this one Julia Julia said your recent conversation about how doing it all just isn't realistic made me think of the four burners theory I don't know really if you're aware of this I remember hearing about this a while ago and I loved it so I thought it might be an interesting one just to delve in too quickly today I love it because to me it's almost like which cups are full in your life and I you know I mentioned when that oh the one listener said to us what would you do if you didn't have kids and more time.

6:38And I said, I want to see friends more because that burner is empty. Is that what this is? Yeah, I think it's this idea. So it's generally attributed as a kind of origination to a man called David Sedaris. And he popularized this metaphor about these four burners, essentially like four stovetops in a piece in 2009 for the New Yorker. And it was being then really widely shared by James Clear. And basically the idea is that, as I said, it's like four stovetop kind of burners, hobs, and you've got your four, I'm going to call them hobs because that's how I think about them. Maybe it's a UK word. Okay.

7:11You've got your four hobs and you've got family, you've got friends, you've got health and you've got work. And essentially the idea is that to be successful really in any of these areas, you've got to turn one of the burners down. Like it's quite hard to put them all on a hundred percent all of the time, but to be really successful, you might have to turn two down. And essentially the idea is like life is filled with trade-offs. Like the idea that you can have four stovetops on a hundred percent, it's just not possible. There's not enough electricity or power to do it. And so you basically have to choose what it is that's really important to you.

7:49And if you want to divide yourself equally between the four, you've basically got to appreciate, recognize, accept, be okay with the idea that you can't maximize them. So they'd all be at 50 % or whatever it is. And I think it's a really helpful analogy, I think actually, which I'm sure is why it's so popular. If you want to prioritize say health and your family, you probably have to dial back a little bit on ambition and career. Or if you really want to excel in your work, in your marriage, let's say some of your friendships or kind of time you can devote to your health may suffer because the time you might go to the gym, you're out with friends.

8:28And I find this quite helpful. I mean, I'm a huge believer that you simply cannot have it all at any time in your life. And I think you have to make choices. I remember often upsetting people, but like really disappointing people when we were at the kind of max of building Delicious Cielo. And then people would be like, well, what's your work-life balance? And I was like, my balance? I don't have a balance. I work 24-7, 365 days a year. If I'm on holiday, I'm just working in a different place. And then people - Holidays with your laptop. It used to just be the norm. That's all we did. And I'm not glamorizing it, but it was wildly successful.

9:04And it was a necessity. Do you know, it's very interesting because there's this notion that Ella and I have discussed before. And I said to Ella how I feel about it, working hard, but hardly working is not true. It almost upsets me a bit because I look back at that grafting phase. I mean, I still consider, I think I am still grafting, but nowhere near what I used to before children. I think having kids makes you stop doing that to a certain level. There's only so much you can do with childcare and X, Y, Z. But it's unrealistic that you can be as successful as Deliciously Ella and not be running malta or fire shooting, what do you call it, putting out fires every day, consistently, consistently grafting, showing up, being at X million places in one day.

9:49It's just impossible. And I do believe that society sometimes sells this notion to us that we can do it all. But I go back to the quote we use all the time with Rita Lobo with the fact that, you know, women enter the workforce, there was nowhere to fill that gap in the home. And suddenly there was a burden upon all of us that is impossible to fill. And we cannot have every burner burning. Thank you for the four burner theory. It's a lovely reminder. I so agree. I mean, when my work burner was on 100%, I would say, you know, I tried to give as much as I could to my family, but my friends down, it was honestly at 2 % if that.

10:25And I feel like my health dropped down to that same extent. And now I've flipped and my work burners down a lot. Anyway, I like it. I think it's helpful. And as I said, I've always felt like I disappointed people when I'd be like, no, I don't really do anything apart from work. They'd be like, no, no, you must have fun. I was like, no, no. And like, if I do go to a wedding, I'm the first person to leave. And you know, and I don't drink or any of that because I can't be hungover because I've got to be responsible. And anyways, life is about choices. So I like that. Do you know what? We could spend a whole episode just discussing the four burner fairies.

10:58So Julia, you've really contributed so much today. Thank you. We have a question from Julia as well. Go for it. We are literally on fire today, burning. We are. Okay. So Julia, as well as giving us two fantastic racks, asked, okay, this is such a good question knowing versus doing. I often find myself in the frustrating position of knowing exactly what I should be doing for my health, more sleep, less stress, better habits, but consistently not doing those things. How do you bridge the gap between knowledge and action? Do you know what's so interesting is I feel like the more I know, the less I know.

11:32I've always said that, you know, my learning will never end because I have to stay up to date with what I do. But I think you're right when it comes to knowledge and action and implementing. I think you also have to have a level of how you speak with yourself internally of kindness and compassion with what is practical, what is actionable and taking control of the things in your life that are doable and realistic and sustainable. And that can only come from you. But if it's a small change that you can easily implement, then write them all down and then put them in a list of a hierarchy list of top to bottom and work on what you can do over a period of time.

12:10I even diarise in my diary a week where I know this is really geeky, but on the Read Plus platform, we do the sustainable food focus. This is so geeky. I can't believe I'm sharing this. This is so lame. It's a judgment-free zone. It's a judgment-free zone here on a podcast, guys. We really do open up to you now. I will look at what fruits or veggies are in season and I'll make a note in my diary, my personal diary, that that's what I'm going to do for the kids that week. Or I've seen a new bit of research that comes out. And I think, do you know what, that's enough for me to make a decision to remove that food in the house or replace it with another one.

12:42And I implement it. I kind of go through this mini thought process. How do you feel about it, Ella, with the more you know it? Because I do feel like knowledge is definitely power with making small changes. Obviously, knowledge is power and knowledge is a great thing. I don't want to knock that for a second. I also think we know too much sometimes to some extent. But then we don't really know it. That's the issue. We're exposed to too much, but without the nuances and understanding and depth. Yeah, I think that's a really nice way of putting it. But I think for most of us who are just lucky enough to be living a normal life, no major concerns when it comes to our health, but we want to have more energy, a bit more va-va-voom every day, whatever it is.

13:24I think there's something about the unnecessary amount of information you're exposed to about your health and what you should be doing every day to some extent. And actually just almost, I actually feel like I almost thought this yesterday when I was on the train, I was like, I almost not to be like too kind of clickbaity, but I'm like, kind of feel like I quit the wellness world, to be honest. I don't feel like I partake in any of it. I don't buy any of the supplements. I don't take any of the powders. I don't want anything to do with that. I feel my wellness comes from walking my dogs, being outside more.

13:55When I feel stressed, I like go gardening. She's a scooper now. We're officially scooping it. Yeah. But I'm just like, I feel like my actually where I derive wellness from is actually so, so, so, so, so much simpler. And it's like, what do I fancy eating? You know? And I'm not like, oh, I got to make brown rice. And it's like, no, because white rice is going to taste better with this, for example. And I just think actually like, I almost want to just tune it all out. I think the whole space is so noisy and actually the doing can be quite simple when you draw, when you really just get rid of all of that.

14:30We have very thought-provoking questions today. Yeah, thank you so much, Julia. I think there's just so much to dissect. We could really delve deeper into that. So let us know if there's anyone else with questions on that frame of thought, you know, knowledge versus action. What changes have you made and let go of in the past, you know, ways you used to do things versus how you do them now, perhaps, after listening to The Wellescape for a year, perhaps. our next question is from Elizabeth in Cape Town she said hi Ella and Rhi your podcast has helped me build such a healthy relationship with food and habits I've developed a really consistent routine that supports my mood and energy but my friends dismiss them as boring and focus more on aesthetics how can I communicate the benefits of these habits in a way that resonates with them it's such a lovely question I mean with anything for me personally and my own experience with friends family I'm a big advocate of show don't tell like if it was me I wouldn't be telling anyone anything and that's kind of how I've always done it like I remember so I changed the way I ate in 2000 spring 2012 so over 11 years ago over 14 years ago now I can't count and you know my especially at that point obviously like eating lots of lentils and carrots it was quite weird and niche and going to this kind of very natural approach and all my friends and family thought I was literally just like mad they were like what are you going to eat you're going to be a bunny rabbit I never said you know you shouldn't eat x or you know be worried about your saturated fat or whatever it was I just said okay look I'm gonna make this delicious and I'm gonna make much more of it so that everyone can enjoy it I'm just gonna put it on the table with the other food and you know I remember one Christmas doing this really really delicious kind of slow roasted mushroom with this kind of amazing like spinach and pine nut puree because that sounds like baby food but you kind of bear with me anyway this amazing crispy wellington it was so good and but I made it massive it was just for me and my sister but that was like 16 of us and everyone just ate it up and ate loads and loads of it and over the time people started to be like oh I love this and all my family now cook more of that sort of thing.

16:41And I've just always took it as this really interesting example of like, just show people that these habits are delicious. These habits kind of feel sustainable. And I think you can show them that in a really gentle way. And I think almost just circling back to what I said a sec ago, I do think for the most part, more aesthetic led trends come and go and people don't really stick with them. And I think what's interesting is probably with what you're talking about, these are habits that you probably will by and large stick with or you know you'll gently oscillate around and I think they'll see that.

17:11It kind of leads back to it's when we were asked that question with the girlfriend and the boyfriend you know how do I help my boyfriend and that's different you're in a relationship you live in habit co-habit together essentially I can see but obviously there's also a level here of personal responsibility versus how much we should be imparting on other people and I know that some of the feedback we had on that was please don't say that we need to do everything for men again and that that was not the purpose of that's that question a while ago obviously we think men should i've got two boys should be able to cook for themselves and eat well but again i think when it comes to our friends like you said it is honestly from experience and clinical practice with relationships of food you just cannot tell your friends how to eat or what to do or what to focus on.

18:00They have to figure out themselves. And all you can do to be a good friend is just be there if they ever want to discuss something or they're intrigued by what you do. You can't impart what you do on somebody else out of your household that is within reason. Like if you house share, again, it's kind of learning that skill of life, which is, I'm probably being a bit harsh here, but really sucks. But it's really difficult because you just want someone to feel their best. and you you know that it's damaging to be focusing on aesthetic trends but you just can't you can't control their environment and their world and their psychology that they're living in in that moment and that time so I do think it's sometimes best to um just focus on what you can do yourself and like Ella said just keep that going strong it's so interesting yeah and just gently share it you know invite them over like cook them a really delicious nourishing meal and invite them over.

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20:43that stays with you long after you leave. Plan your Scottish escape today at expedia.com slash visit Scotland. Right, Inez is wondering. She said, thank you for bringing so much clarity to such a confusing space. I definitely agree with you. I think we're always confused by this space. I feel stuck in an all or nothing cycle with food. I try to eat perfectly, then overeat and feel guilt and frustration. how can I build a more balanced, intuitive relationship with food? Do you know what? Relationships with food take a long time because it depends at what stage you're in at your life, what the external factors are that are triggering the stresses in your life that perhaps are leading you to turn to food as a coping mechanism or strategy, where this inbuilt depth of restriction or guilt or even punishment for food, allowing yourself permission to eat is coming from.

21:37You know, I saw my friend last weekend, Helen, she's a psychotherapist. And it's really interesting when, you know, we often have a chat sometimes about methods of work and what we're up to and how we how we deal with things. And we were saying how times have changed in a way that people are now more aware of wanting to heal their relationship with food. Whereas, you know, 15 years ago, when we started training in this particular space, looking at the psychological ways of disordered eating or behaviors, we used to have to do methods like hot seating with clients and trying to really tap into that internal voice within your head, which is really difficult to do and not effective for everybody as an approach.

22:15I think one of the most helpful things that you can do right now is, first of all, do you know, back in my book, Renourish, 2017, I had a self-esteem scale, a body image scale, and boxes you can tick through. You know, you can probably find those on chat GPT. Have a look at yourself. How are you struggling? How are you doing out of 10? How do you feel within yourself. Then in another box next to it, you start collating the information on what are the certain foods like in a traffic light list I do in clinic with green as what I consider my safe foods, amber, what could be remotely triggering for me and red things that I just don't allow myself because I feel I get stuck in that cycle of restriction or guilt consistently.

22:56And it's starting to pick apart all the cues and then working slowly to build it up. We're definitely going to do a relationship with food workshop on nutrition plus an eight week intensive but for now I think the best thing is definitely to start looking at yourself and noticing the enjoyable things and really trying to add in something that brings you joy every single day rather than focusing and fixating on the negatives you need to put the negatives on the paper remove them from your head it's really really helpful and I think it's so important to food is so multifaceted like it's how we celebrate as we just said Christmas or Easter or birthdays or big moments weddings you know it's like it's such a kind of societal familial cultural anchor and also it's for so many people also so linked to emotion to stress and as you said to self-esteem and self-worth and how we feel in ourselves and so it's like it is such a complicated thing this relationship and it shows up so differently for everyone.

23:56I think one thing I would say, and, and, you know, I really want you to take this in the right way, but like the word perfect, really important word to reevaluate maybe, which is that like, no one can do anything perfectly in life. And I think maybe you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to eat perfectly. And Rhi and I have talked about this a lot, which is that between ourselves, which is that this is a really difficult tension actually where you know and we're here every week telling you you know please eat those polyphenols please eat that fiber you know we do need to eat less upfs and the reality is is all of that holds true but it's easier said than done and it doesn't have to be 100 % of the time and so it's this really tricky thing of like yes we need to collectively overhaul our diets.

24:44And yes, we need to shift to a more kind of natural home coach, plant rich Mediterranean inspired type way of eating, but it doesn't have to be quote unquote perfect. And it can involve, and as Rhi said, I think having just sort of slightly easing that pressure to like do a good job, but doesn't need to be perfect. I think that's really important. I think that was a lovely, lovely way to summarize, but just so you don't feel hard on yourself. it takes a lot of time a lot of work inner compassion and um for some people that can come quicker than others and and yeah perfection doesn't exist and i do think you know what the other thing i'd say and this you know there's so many different ways to explore this so many different people you can talk to but it's probably worth as well just doing exercises and things to really support your self-esteem like it's interesting on the weekend i did this on And Substack every Sunday night, we have this kind of meditation and breathwork group that I teach, which I love.

25:40And we did this exercise on how we talk to ourselves. And so kind of inspired by this love and kindness meditation, which is that kind of comes from two and a half thousand year old Buddhist tradition. And, you know, interpretation of, but, you know, in it, you actually like really visualize yourself and you wish yourself, you know, may I be happy, may I be safe. and you say all these things to yourself. And it's so interesting. I started, I had very, very low self-esteem and I started doing these sorts of things about 10 years ago. And, you know, I remember doing these affirmation meditations, being like, I love myself.

26:15I'm being like, oh my God, that's the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done. Anyway, I had all this feedback from people on Sunday. People were saying that that was so emotional for me. I'm so self-critical. And I think we are. We like, if our best friend said something to us, we'd say something so nice back. But the way that we generally speak to ourselves, oftentimes it's really harsh it's really critical the standards to which we hold ourselves can be so high so I just think kind of if you feel like you're holding yourself to these extraordinary standards just also exploring that and kind of trying to be a little bit more compassionate and gentle with yourself and there's so many different ways of looking at that but I just do think that's worth holding in mind I think it's a beautiful thing to add and it leads us actually if you could expand on it ella because the next question from an anonymous um listener but thank you she's tuning in from sweden and they've said hi your podcast brings me so much comfort each week i've heard that breath work can help regulate the nervous system but i don't know where to start what would you recommend for beginners and i think ella with breath work it's something we can all do for free at home we can sit down but it's it's finding your headspace to be in the right frame of mind to even embark upon that like i said for me it's through music I find it really difficult.

27:27So I'm wondering if, yeah, you could give us some advice there. Yeah, of course. I mean, look, first of all, I think this is so similar in lots of ways to that study we were talking about on Monday in terms of like, yes, coffee or olive oil or berries are really good for not anti-aging, but healthy aging, but they are all within a context, right? And I think, you know, breathwork or meditation, all these things sit within it as well, like five minutes of breath work can only do so much. Like it sits with the rest of your lifestyle in terms of that nervous system support. There is so much, again, I feel like about the nervous system online.

28:06I think in a nutshell, you know, you've got your kind of two key branches of your autosomic nervous system. You've got your sympathetic and you've got your parasympathetic. Your sympathetic is your quote unquote stressed state. Your parasympathetic is your rest and digest. The reality is and you know people always use that analogy of like the modern mind doesn't know the difference between being chased by a tiger and my boss emailing me late at night that's true though you know that's it is true or an ambulance blaring and the constant notifications on your phone and things like that you know our brain you know the amygdala in our brain is always scanning for danger like we're looking for danger our nervous system's looking to see like am i in danger do i need to respond and the interesting thing is and we know this like chronic stress is so bad for us And, you know, stress isn't bad.

28:54Stress is normal. It's like the stress hormone cortisol, as Rhi always says, like, that's what gets you out of bed in the morning. Like it's kind of demonized. It doesn't need to be demonized. But the issue sets in when you become in this more chronic stressed state, that's what's not good for our health. Too much of that sympathetic activation. And as Rhi said, in the world we live in today where the tube is busy, you know, the street is busy, there's loud noises and honking, and then your phone's beeping all day and you're constantly stimulated and you're exhausted. It's actually so normal to basically be stuck feeling stressed all the time and kind of completely forget, like, how can I just sit and be?