Live From the Sulwhasoo Skin Longevity Symposium! Featuring Cosmetic Chemist Ron Robinson and Beauty Expert Michelle Lee

0:10Welcome to the Who What Wear podcast, your direct line to the designers, stylists, beauty experts, editors, and tastemakers who are shaping the ever-evolving world of fashion. I'm Who What Wear beauty director Erin Jahns, and today we have a special episode for you. This past Monday, I was lucky enough to attend the Sulwasu Skin Longevity Symposium in New York. I'm sure you're familiar, but Sulwasu is a global luxury beauty brand rooted in Korean heritage and powered by 60 years of innovative research around a specific ingredient, ginseng. At the symposium, we were presented with the latest research results for the company's exclusively developed ingredients.

0:49And now we're going to share all of those findings with you. Right after the symposium wrapped up, I sat down with two of my favorite beauty experts to talk through what we learned. Ron Robinson, a veteran cosmetic chemist, founder of BeautyStat, and advisor to Haley Beavers Road. And Michelle Lee, a beauty executive legend who was formerly editor-in-chief at Allure and Nylon. We learned so much about the power of ginseng as a skincare ingredient, and I can't wait for you to hear. You can also watch this episode on YouTube at the link in the episode description. It's all coming up on Who Will Wear.

1:27Hi, Ron and Michelle. Welcome to the pod. Thank you. Hey, Erin. So to give our audience some context, the three of us just came from Amor Pacific's Skin Longevity Symposium. Amor Pacific owns some of our favorite skincare brands like Silwasu and Laneige. So Wasu specifically is considered the crown jewel of the Amor Pacific portfolio, renowned for its heritage, innovations, and decades of ginseng research. So during the symposium, scientists from the Department of Dermatology at Johns Hopkins Medical School shared new findings on ginseng, and now we're here to talk through everything we learned.

2:03So are you ready to dive in? Let's do it. We're ready. So I had the opportunity to travel to Seoul last year, visit their labs, and get up close and personal with the line. And I've become obsessed. Sulwasu is known as a pioneer in the study of Korean ginseng for over 60 years, which is their hero ingredient and a key driver in supporting skin longevity. To start, what do you both think of when you hear the word skin longevity? Is this something you actively consider within your own skincare routines? Yeah, now more and more so because it's not just about correction for me. It's how do I maintain my skin's health and how do I create this lifespan with my skin?

2:42And I think consumers are gravitating towards the same thing. Would you agree, Michelle? Absolutely. I think that I have been practicing skin longevity, maybe without knowing it, for about 10 years now. And so I started to really, again, in the past decade, start to reframe my skincare regimen as truly skincare, right? Like hair being bolded and like fully uppercase. And I think a lot of Asian, you know, if you look at Japanese, but also specifically Korean skincare, the philosophy is very much that. I kind of equate it a lot of times to what's happened in healthcare and wellness here in this country as well.

3:20That when I was growing up, it was all about treating conditions and illnesses, right? That you either can have surgery or you can use medications to treat an illness. But truly now we kind of have moved to this point in time where it's more about preventative wellness. And so I think of skin longevity in that similar way of, again, like when I look to the East, I think that those philosophies have been around for quite a while. And thankfully, now it's here. Yeah. And to add to that, you think about consumers, how they're taking their vitamins and supplements for the same reason. Now they're doing that with their skin.

3:52So in both of your opinions, when should you begin thinking about skin longevity and incorporating products that support things like collagen production and skin elasticity? I mean, in my opinion, I think that it depends on what we're talking about when it comes to skin longevity, because I think that there are certain lifestyle factors, let's say, that play into that as well. Do I think that my five-year-old daughter needs to have a skincare regimen? Probably not. I would say that general lifestyle things of getting enough sleep, staying out of the sun too much, even at five years old, I make sure that she's protected from the sun, that she wears sunscreen.

4:24If we really zoom out and think about skin longevity, that is certainly part of it. I would say also that my older two kids are in their teens and then my son is 20. And so even at that age, again, do they need to have a full like skincare regimen? Probably not. But at that age also, there are some inflammatory skin conditions that can happen like acne, rosacea, other things. And so if we think about skin longevity as caring for your skin's health, those things are important at any age. But I would say, like truly to answer your question, I would say probably in your 30s and 40s is when it would be really important to get serious about skin longevity.

5:01I just turned 50 this year. And for me, I truly want to make sure that not necessarily that I'm trying to look like I'm 20, but just that I have the best skin that I can possibly have at 50. I agree with Michelle. I think it's the skin protection piece with protection from UV. And I think, of course, we have the Gen Alpha getting into skincare so early. They just need a basic cleanser, moisturizer, and sun protection. So I think if you're really into it, that's where you should start. But I agree. I think as we get into those 20s, 30s, 40s, we really should be thinking about longevity. Michelle, as someone who's worked in beauty for over 25 years, I'm curious about your personal take on anti-aging rhetoric today.

5:43How has the beauty industry's position on aging shifted over the years? And how do Sawasu and Korean beauty at large fit into that? Oh, Erin, I have so many thoughts for you. Okay, so adding a little bit of context, back in 2017, so almost 10 years ago, which is hard to believe, I was the editor-in-chief of Allure, and we very famously banned the term anti-aging. We did a cover with the amazing Helen Mirren that said the end of anti-aging. I wrote the cover story in my editor's letter. We talked about this is why we're doing this. At the time, it went further than I could ever have imagined. We truly sparked a global conversation about aging.

6:23And so when I think about now, everything that's happened, it makes me so proud and feels so great the fact that we see so many more women over, I don't even want to say over 35, I would say over 50, 60, 70 in ad campaigns, on the runway, celebrities. I see more women who are embracing their greys. And I say women because truly our intention when we did that cover was about let's really address how society and we in general talk about aging really more about women because I don't think necessarily that men face the exact same things. We are super hard on ourselves as women and society is really hard on us.

7:03And so again, like I said, I think now is everything perfect in the way that we talk about and think about aging? Absolutely not. But when I think about the past decade, we have made so much progress. And so it makes me really happy that brands like Slawasu really put this emphasis more on skin longevity. Again, back then, we didn't have those words. And so we were talking about this focus on healthy skin. And like, let's not say anti-aging because we love aging, like the opposite. We don't want that to happen. And so the fact that now we have this term to really lead us in a direction of more addressing the root cause of what is causing skin conditions and other things, I think that's a really important distinction of how we start to look at ourselves moving forward.

7:45Yeah, definitely. And I think as a cosmetic chemist, I totally agree. I think Sawasu is pioneering this idea of skin longevity and actually bring it to life with great results. You know, we just came out of the symposium. I was blown away with some of the clinical results. Well, let's talk about the star of the show, ginseng. Ron, can you tell our listeners what ginseng is and why it's so special and what makes ginseng such a powerful ingredient in terms of skin longevity? Ginseng is a root plant that's been used in traditional medicine for literally centuries. It's known for its great benefits.

8:18What Sulwassu's been able to do is they've been able to unlock the power and the potential of ginseng through this compound called Compound K, which is showing fantastic results around skin longevity. It's one thing to use ginseng as an ingredient in a formulation, but what Sulwasti was doing is completely different because they figured out how to isolate the specific saponin for anti-aging found at ginseng, and then it's concentrated into their patented ingredient called ginsenomics through bioconversion technology. This innovation enhances the skin's ability to absorb more effectively. And Ron, you've been able to isolate vitamin C in a way that's similar to how Sulwatsu isolates ginseng, ensuring the ingredient remains potent and active for longer.

9:02Can you kind of walk us through how that isolation and concentration process works? Yeah, it's a great question. They've been able to use this bioconversion technology to really mimic the way ginseng, as we absorb it, as we ingest it, into this compound that's able to deliver that active component of ginseng, compound K, into the skin, actually 6 ,000 times more potent. It's really effective in terms of providing that skin longevity, skin rejuvenation. I was really impressed with it. Michelle, as our product expert, can you explain how a powerful ingredient like this can fit into your skincare routine and what effects people can expect to actually see?

9:41Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Asian. You know, growing up, I think that most East Asian people have a different relationship with ginseng, right? I grew up walking into Asian grocery stores and you always see like teas and tinctures and these big bottles of like ginseng inside. And so for my entire life, I think I've always known it as being an amazing medicinal herb, right? We know during the presentation today, there was this incredible moment where they were showing like just all the health benefits of ginseng. And I think the speaker talked about how it is actually probably the most beneficial medicinal herb in the entire world, right?

10:20And it's like, if you look at the full benefits of what it can do, it's almost like this magical ingredient, like you expect in Harry Potter or something, right? Like a cure-all. Like, poof, diabetes. Yes. Magic wand. Exactly. And so I think knowing that it's not a surprise that things that are often great when they're ingested are also great for your skin. I think vitamin C is an excellent example of that. And so I think the wonderful thing about ginseng is, unlike, let's say, something like retinol, right, where retinol is a little bit more finicky in terms of how you might actually use it. For example, I wouldn't use retinol during the day.

10:55Ginseng wonderfully has a lot of different applications, and it can go in a lot of different types of products as well. So you could use it in an eye cream, a serum, a moisturizer, in any number of ways. And so truly, after the talk today, I was saying, I am going to bathe in ginseng. I think we all are. Yeah, and it's also impressive how they've been able to make it so bioavailable, meaning it's able to get into the skin and deliver on that skin rejuvenation benefit. So that was really impressive to me. I want to add about texture. What the scientists at Sahuasca have been able to do is really not just unlock the potential of ginseng, but also deliver it in a texture and a sensorial that's really exciting.

11:37It really feels great on the skin. And I think when we think about consumers and how do we keep them compliant in their skincare, get them excited about it, I think the brand has really done that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I love the fact that Silwasu is so leaned into ginseng. You know, I was saying to the team earlier that I've been a big fan of their first care activating serum for a very long time, right? I think I was like watching something that I think they sell one bottle every 10 seconds. Like this is a global like mega hit of a product. And so a couple of years ago, I saw that they had reformulated and that they changed it so that the hero ingredient is ginseng.

12:13And to me, that was very meaningful that, again, like they are really doubling down on their belief that ginseng is a powerful, important ingredient. Because if you take this like kind of hero product that everyone loves already, it's always a risk, right? If you're changing the formulation, what if people don't like it? And so I also had that moment of being like, oh, my gosh, am I going to still like it the same? And then I tried it and it's amazing. Yeah. You heard a lot about the relationship between inflammation and skin aging today. So what were both of your takeaways about that link? And was there anything new that you learned?

12:43Yeah. I mean, we've been hearing about inflammation and inflammation for a while, right? And even in terms of how I was saying the analogy between general wellness and also skincare, right? We see a lot of those same things happening. I think, Ron, you probably have a lot more sort of like scientific things to say about it. But it's not surprising to me that inflammation is so tied to our skin. So I'll give an example. Probably six or seven years ago, I was in the south of France. And as you do in the south of France, you drink a lot of rosé. And so I think I completely messed up my entire skin barrier because I was so inflamed.

13:18And again, it was something that was like happening internally that then it showed instantly on my skin. And so for weeks after that, I was dealing with this where I had this red inflamed skin and like truly like red, angry, angry pustules. And so I've seen firsthand how this inflammation, like it's all kind of tied together. And so it's not super surprising to me, I guess, that now science is really showing that link. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, looking at the data shared today, I think swastas really established that link. You know, it's something we always thought we, you know, we thought that there was this connection, but they have studies that actually show some of the aging things that are happening in the skin are happening in parts of our body as well.

13:57So certainly more research can be done, but I think they're on the brink of it. I think it's really exciting. Ron, can you give a little bit more of a specific definition of inflammation to our listeners? Yes, so inflammation is a chronic, always-on inflammation that our bodies and our skin face, which causes premature aging. So the brand Suasu has been able to really isolate the active form of ginseng in order to address inflammation and actually treat and get at the root cause of inflammation in the skin. The keynote speaker today, Professor Se-Won Kong from John Hopkins Department of Dermatology, spoke about the importance of studying skin as an extension of overall health and wellness.

14:41And in my world as a beauty editor, we talk so much about skincare in relation to products and makeup. And I thought it was fascinating to reframe skin as an important indicator of what's happening inside your body. What were some of the findings about that connection that stuck out to both of you? We sometimes forget, even though we all talk about it, that skin is our largest organ, right? It is truly our most visible organ. I think they even said that in the presentation, which kind of like stuck with me. To me, I always think of like your skin as like it's like your check engine light, right?

15:11Like if something's happening on your skin, for example, I'm jet lagged today, right? I can see it instantly on my skin. My skin looks a little bit grayer. I just know myself. And so I love the fact that the researchers are really digging into what is actually scientifically happening to go behind that. They're connecting the dots. Yeah. We also heard about the importance of protecting your skin's immune balance today, because as we know, our skin can be disrupted by the environment and things like dust and pollution, as well as lifestyle factors, like lots of coffee, sleep deprivation, and sugary snacks.

15:43For our listeners, what exactly does that mean when we say the skin barrier can get disrupted? What does that look like in real life? I think it's a combination of all those factors. It adds to free radicals and damage in the skin. And that connection's been made. And again, with skincare, like Suasu, I think they've been able to show that they've been able to correct a lot of that damage. What I love is that, Erin, I think as beauty editors, right, we talk about skin all the time, but we don't necessarily look at all of the visuals. And so today during the presentation, I actually love looking at some of those like visual illustrations or even again, just like true representations of what the layers of skin look like.

16:22And so obviously the skin's barrier has been talked about quite a lot in the past couple of years, but actually seeing it and seeing how it is just a collection of cells that are connected by like a layer of lipids and then seeing that layer of collagen and elastin under that, it makes you really think about all the words that we talk about all the time, right, within our skincare. And you can see how certain things like sun damage can actually affect all of those different layers. And so when we talk about that skin barrier being disrupted, it's like your armor, right? So if you have your armor and you do any number of things, whether it's, you know, environmental factors like pollution, maybe it is not getting enough sleep, maybe it's too much sun exposure, disrupting and damaging that barrier means that suddenly everything that's below that, and that's that layer of collagen and elastin, also has less protection.

17:15And so as we get older, as time progresses, that collagen, right, we talk about all the time, like we want to be able to like boost our collagen. If we're not doing things that can prevent that damage, we are actually doing a lot more harm. And you know, think about skin? What's its major function? It's to protect us from the external. If you're poking holes through these environmental conditions that are harsh and not protecting the skin, you're going to get damaged and you're going to show premature signs of aging. There are plenty of things we can do to prevent or help slow down signs of aging.

17:46But something that I found incredible was that the researchers have developed a skincare ingredient extracted from camellia seeds, and that has been shown to actually reverse the decline of aging skin cells by inducing the production of collagen fiber. This is called Camellia bioflavonoid. The trial results were impressive even as early as eight weeks. Ron, can you share a bit about how topical application of this product can improve signs of aging? Yes, this is a phytochemical, and I was really impressed with what they've done with this ingredient. They've incorporated it into a fantastic formula, and in a placebo study, in just eight weeks, panelists saw a significant improvement in texture and luminosity.

18:28So that's really showing the power of this ingredient. So the thing I loved about that whole presentation with the camellia also was we were talking about it after it was this idea of senescence, which was a word that I actually was not familiar with before, which is this idea that your skin cells kind of lay dormant sometimes. They don't just die, but they are like zombie cells. They're like sleeping beauty, right? They're just kind of there, still alive, but really not serving any purpose. And the fact that this camellia bioflavonoid, can actually help to rejuvenate those cells. It's fascinating.

19:00Totally. And think about what the skin cells are supposed to be doing. It's supposed to be 28 days. Your skin cells are supposed to be getting older and older. Then they die and flake off. And that gives you new, fresh skin cells underneath. When the skin cell is senescent and it just freezes and sleeps and doesn't do anything, it's not doing anything to help except for giving you these signs of aging. Right. For our listeners who are interested in updating their routines to set themselves up for a lifetime of skin longevity, what are some practical tips that you would give them? Well, kind of what I was saying, I guess, in the beginning, you know, for sure, use ginseng and you can incorporate it in any number of different ways into your routine.

19:41I would say if you are just kind of testing it out initially, I love a serum. I think it's an easy way to do things where, you know, at minimum, you need a gentle cleanser. Use a serum. You can use whatever moisturizer you want to and then use a sunscreen, like, you know, protect your skin. I would say, though, for skin longevity, thinking about your overall health is really important, that our skin cells, as I talked about today, everything is interrelated, that you can see some of the damage that's been done on skin cells is reflected then in some of your body cells. And so if we think about sleeping well, de-stress, which is hard to do, eating well, staying out of the sun too much, like it's good to get a little bit of sun, but like don't overdo it.

20:24So there's not much we can do about some of the things, right? Like pollution or there was some talk in the presentation about microparticles. I'm not quite sure if we can do away with that, unfortunately. But I think there's a lot of lifestyle factors also that we can really address. Of all the findings we heard today, and there were many, what was something that surprised you or changed your approach to skincare moving forward? I think, like Michelle, I think now seeing this data around ginseng and what the brand has been able to do, it's really interesting. Yeah. And I think it's really exciting.

20:57So I think, you know, my big takeaway, again, this is another ingredient that this brand has been able to unlock in a significant way that is really delivering both benefits in terms of treating the skin, but also more importantly, delivering on that skin longevity, which consumers are really interested in right now. Obviously, this is so much more of Ron's world, right? And so for me to sort of ingest everything, I agree that just seeing how much work and how much effort and truly 60 years of research into ginseng. I think, Erin, again, like we hear all the time as beauty editors about skincare science and innovation and other things.

21:35And yes, some of it is valid and some of it is not. But when you actually really see all of the hard work and research that went into everything, I've known for a long time that ginseng is an amazing ingredient. But the fact that they then have merged a traditional ingredient with truly modern science to extract the highest potency of that ingredient and to really make it special. Like I said, I am going to be bathing in it. Totally agree. Thank you for being on the pod, Ron and Michelle. Thanks for having us. Thank you for having us, Erin.

22:13a huge thank you to cosmetic chemist ron robinson and beauty expert michelle lee make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode and while you're there i'd also be so grateful if you'd rate and review us if you have guest suggestions or any other feedback drop us a line at podcast at whowhatwear.com or you can find us on social at Who Outwear. See you next Wednesday on the Who Outwear podcast.

22:41This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hamaris, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our editor is Ko Takasugi Chernovan. Our audio engineers are at Glen Canyon Audio and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.

23:01Thank you.