Dame Esther Rantzen dies at 86 after lifetime of campaigning

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0:30software. You end up with fragmented, disconnected systems that cost a fortune and don't talk to each other. Odoo completely changes that. Odoo comes fully complete, with all your business apps perfectly integrated and working together seamlessly. It's everything your business needs in one place, saving you time, headaches, and serious money. Stop paying for missing pieces. Go to odoo.com. That's odoo.com to learn more. Hello, I'm Chloe Tilley. Thank you for downloading the BBC's World Tonight podcast from Wednesday 30th September. We reflect on the life of Dame Esther Ranson, who has died at the age of 86, hearing from colleagues and campaigners who worked with her to try and change the law on assisted dying.

1:17We break down what happened in the skies above Saudi Arabia after an attack on an Israel-bound passenger airline caused the plane to plummet 17 ,000 feet. President Macron says welcome back to the EU as Prime Minister Andy Burnham opens up the possibility of a referendum on rejoining the EU in Labour's election manifesto. But what do Europeans really think about the prospect? And we celebrate the birthday of a 300-year-old Stradivarius cello with its custodian Stephen Isselis. She was a television presenter, campaigner and most recently a vocal supporter of assisted dying. Domesta Ransom has died at the age of 86.

1:58Best known for presenting That's Life for over 20 years, she founded Childline in 1986 and then almost 30 years later set up the Silverline helpline that helped older people who felt lonely and isolated. But in recent years, it was her campaigning on legalising assisted dying where she did become most vocal. She announced she had joined Dignitas so she could end her life at the Swiss clinic about a year after being diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. Well, earlier this month, Daymester said that everything I didn't want to happen, I'm having to go through now, with loved ones either unable to visit her or seeing me suffering pain or indignity when they do.

2:38She described the current law as messy and cruel, saying it must change and change quickly. Well, tonight, among others, the Prime Minister Andy Burnham paid tribute to Daymester, saying she changed countless lives. David Sillatay, the BBC's media and art correspondent, takes a look at her remarkable life and career.

2:59Welcome to That's Life. This is a new programme. Esther Ransom and That's Life. A gloriously odd mix of campaigning consumer journalism mixed with dogs who could say... Yes, sausages. Her street interviews even led to her one day. I'll tell you once more to move. If you don't move, I shall arrest you for willful obstruction. Getting arrested. I've just been arrested for handing out bat stew. Two thirds of me is, I think, wildly extrovert. I really always have enjoyed talking to strangers in the train. When I was 18 months old, my mother used to be deeply embarrassed by the fact I used to wink at strangers from the pram.

3:43It had all begun when she got a job on the show that pioneered the That's Life formula, Braden's Week. Some people can yodel and some people can't. It's a knack. And this week I was trying to find out how many people could do it. You're a lady, you're a lady. Its editor was Desmond Wilcox, who she would go on to marry. You've done it before. No, I haven't. Only in the bath. When I was a teenager, I was quite fat, quite plain, never have been beautiful. And I never really thought that I would find someone who would love me enough to want to marry me. Esther Ransom was, at her peak, the most powerful woman in television.

4:30What made That's Life different was that along with the comedy were campaigns that really did change Breton. The introduction of rear seatbelts, soft surfaces on playgrounds, The story of two-year-old Ben Hardwick's liver transplant helped transform attitudes to organ donation. And reports about child abuse had a huge impact and led to the creation of Child Life. Were children in trouble or danger? We seem to be able to torture our own young and then cover our traces. I'm talking about sexual abuse, which is the biggest single category of all our cause. I'm also talking about physical violence, which is another huge category.

5:11Some of them are so painful that it makes you wonder what kind of species we are. HEARTS OF GOLD HEARTS OF GOLD Welcome to this brand new programme called Hearts of Gold, which is all about acts of kindness and courage. After That's Life, there was Hearts of Gold and Esther. A few years ago, a new verb entered the English language. It was to out or to be outed. So today, we're going to ask how easy it is to come out these days. Esther Ranson also produced The Big Time, a pioneering piece of reality TV. It launched Sheen Reiston's career.

5:53She also created Silverline, a befriending service for the elderly. And even when diagnosed with cancer, she responded in true Esther Ranson style with a campaign in support of assisted dying. If you watch someone you love having a bad death, that memory obliterates all the happy times. And, you know, I have joined Dignitas. I have, in my brain, thought, well, if the next scan says nothing's working, I might buzz off to Zurich. But nothing topped That's Life, where she presided over a show that was at times joyously silly and then gave us moments like this. Is there anyone in our audience tonight who owes their life to Nicholas Winton?

6:42If so, could you stand up, please? And she told the story of Nicholas Winton, who'd saved the lives of hundreds of Jewish children, children he'd never met until this moment. Mr Winton, would you like to turn round?

7:03you'll have the chance to meet these people properly after the programme. In the meantime, Mr Winston, on behalf of all of them, thank you very much indeed.

7:16David Sillitoe there, the BBC's media and arts correspondent, taking a look back at Dame Esther Ransom's life. Well, Howard Leader is a presenter on BBC Radio Lincolnshire, But for five years, he co-hosted That's Life with Dame Esther. And I'm pleased to say that he joins us now. Good evening. Good evening, Clary. What are your thoughts tonight? Well, they're mixed, really. I mean, sadness, of course. We've known about Esther's illness for a long time. And I suppose everybody realised that this day would come. But nonetheless, it still comes as a shock. But since I've learned the news at about 8 o 'clock this evening, I've just found myself reminiscing really and remembering what an extraordinary period of my life that was and one of the things that I realised after the show finished and I went on with my career I realised that Esther Ransom had been an absolutely pivotal figure in my life Prior to going to That's Life, I'd been a working actor and I specialised in musical theatre and that's, I think, really what got me into the show.

8:33But in the five years that I was there, without me consciously realising it, Esther Anson's patience and her guidance and her cajoling and sometimes she could be quite strict with the team which was good. It turned me into a proper journalist and a broadcaster which is what I went on to do in all the years following that life. So it really was a pivotal period in my career and I remember it with such appreciation to her and great fondness too because we had it was extremely hard work I think you've probably heard this from other contributors But, you know, people used to say, oh, it's not a bad job.

9:22You only work on Sundays. Not a bit of it. You know, we were in the office every single day delving into the post bag of 4 ,000 letters a week. And every one of the presenters had to choose two or three things to try and stand up as stories for the show, because obviously it was a bit of a furnace. and always, you know, Esther would have editorial meetings and she'd go through all of your runners and riders with you and really give you those nuggets from her experience that tells you how to turn it into a story. Forgive me, was there a moment that you look back on a story, a moment on that's life that you hold in kind of a fond memory?

10:05well for me i would the that the answer would be different to any of the presenters that you asked that question of but for me um having been on the show for i think four years at the time i went to do a story in uh russia about a lady who had seen the plight of children who'd been affected by the chernobyl disaster and were being treated at the komsomol children's hospital inst petersburg which at the time, having just emerged from the communist era, you know, the hospital was extremely under-equipped. And this lady sold her car in order to buy medical equipment. And we followed her to St. Petersburg and made a film about her donating, you know, specialist bone sores and various other bits of kit that she knew that they required from her professional inquiries.

10:58And whilst we were there, we realized, gosh, you know, that this children's hospital, which was the Great Ormond Street of their state at the time, really needed some help. And that's why viewers were so generous that the following year we were able to deliver an ambulance. Prior to that, they'd been using an estate car with a mattress in the back. So we took them an ambulance. And then Esther said to me, is there anything else we can do. And I said, well, gosh, the state of the building is part of the problem. And 12 months later, we took 120 professional tradespeople from the UK on a Virgin Airways flight to spend two weeks in St.

11:46Petersburg doing the renovation of two operating theatres, an intensive care unit, and three floors of wards. I mean, it was just an extraordinary effort. We made a That's Life special film called To Rush With Love. That's my principal memory, I think, of my time on the show. Amazing. And transforming lives and making a difference. Howard, it's lovely to speak to you this evening. Thank you for coming onto the programme. That's Howard Leader there, who was a co-host on That's Life with Damester Ransom for five years. Well, tonight, Dignity in Dying, the main campaign group seeking to change the law on assisted dying, called Damester a true force of nature whose compassion, tenacity, and will will be greatly missed.

12:29The actor Susan Hampshire was also part of the campaign to legalise assisted dying. First of all, I can't think of anything more sad than for her daughter. I think it's heartbreaking. A remarkable human being, a wonderful presenter, all she did for Childline and in her later life on behalf of Dignity and Dying and Assisted Dying, campaigning so energetically when she was so ill. It's very, very sad to hear that she's passed away and very sad indeed. You worked with her on that campaign to legalise assisted dying. What did she bring to that campaign? Well, her energy and her commitment and because she had something to say, knowing that she was at the end of her life.

13:12Where do you think the campaign for legalising assisted dying would be without her input? She's such a respected figure. She's such a brilliant woman. I think her input was absolutely amazing, amazing. Do you believe that ultimately one day there will be a change in the law? I think that it may be on the back burner for some considerable time, unless another Esther turns up and campaigns in the amazing way that she did. That's the actor Susan Hampshire. Well, Charlie Faulkner, Baron Faulkner of Thornton, who has campaigned for the legalisation of assisted dying for years and was responsible for the recent Terminally Ill Adults End of Life Bill in the House of Lords joins me now.

13:55Good evening to you. Good evening. What do you think Dame Esther Ransom brought to the campaign to try and change the law on assisted dying? I think she absolutely transformed it. And I think she singly was the person who got it almost through this time. she was a unique person in British life for decades the country listened to what she said and to her campaigns because she wasn't didactic she wasn't bossy she was lovely she took up causes that resonated with the public and she took up causes that might not have been things that the public were aware of or they resonated to until she took them up.

14:47Assisted dying was one of those causes. She gave an interview after she'd been diagnosed with a terminal illness and gave an interview on the Today programme, which had an absolutely transforming effect on the campaign. And in a way, the way that you could see that it had that transformative effect was that politicians began to respond in a completely different way. The then leader of the opposition indicated that he'd make time for Parliament to debate it. So that interview and the sense that this person whom the public listened to on campaigns had a transformative effect, I think. And is that because she was a human face on what was a controversial topic?

15:30I think it was a topic that was very widely supported in any event, but it got straight to the top of the agenda because Esther, who was this hugely well-known, trusted and loved figure, made it her campaign. And you've referred in the tributes that people have given to Esther on your programme tonight to all the things that she'd done, like Childline, like Silverline, like the From Russia With Love story that Howard just told then. If she espoused a cause, then people listened because people liked Esther. She was an absolutely lovely figure and the public responded. And where do you think the campaign goes from here when it has lost somebody that you've explained was so important to it?

16:26I think she is a great loss, but I think what Esther achieved by giving it such a lift is that it's there now in people's minds. I think people will think we got so close this time because polling suggests it's very widely supported. I think it will get there and not in 10 or 15 years, but very soon. And I think that is because of Esther. Lord Faulkner, thank you so much for being with us.

17:01Well, coming up later on the programme. Welcome back. If the British want to come back, Prime Minister, in that sense, I think that is very good news, both for his country and for Europeans. A Macron missive to the British as the prospect of rejoining the EU is mooted by the Prime Minister. We will get some European reaction. Now, there has been joy and relief at Ben Gurion Airport in Israel tonight as passengers from an earlier flight, which was subjected to what the Israeli government is calling an attempted hijacking, finally landed safely.

17:39Well, it was early this morning when an emergency signal for a hijacking aboard a Fly Dubai flight from Dubai to Tel Aviv caused the Israeli government to scramble jets. What has since emerged in snatches of detail paints a dramatic picture. For passengers, the first moment it became clear something was badly wrong was as they were flying over the north of Saudi Arabia and the plane suddenly entered a rapid descent.

18:15It plummeted 17 ,000 feet inside two minutes. We now know one of the pilots of the aircraft was stabbed by another pilot and fought back. That prompted the plane to enter a dive before the injured victim was able to open the cockpit door and get help. Those calls prompted some of the male passengers and other crew members to rush towards the cockpit to subdue the attacker. Unfortunately, the plane was also carrying two off-duty pilots who took over the controls. They were able to divert it to the Saudi city of Tabuk, where they landed safely. Speaking tonight, after arriving back in Israel, one passenger, Al-Mogitali, described what he experienced.

18:56It was a regular flight until we got to the Jordanian border. suddenly the aircraft was dropping very sharply like massive turbulence and we didn't understand why because we didn't get any alert and we tried to buckle up and it got balanced after three 20 seconds and then started dropping again and balancing again and we saw that in front of the next to the cockpit people ran and we understood that one of the pilots stabbed the other one and the passenger and the crew member took over, got control and luckily we had another pilot who took control on the aircraft itself. Well, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met some of these passengers at Ben Gurion Airport.

19:51He told me that somehow or other he managed to break into the cockpit with one of the crew members and that together they neutralized the stabbing pilot while he was trying to sabotage the plane systems. Another flight crew on board entered the cockpit and managed to stabilize the plane. I salute these heroes who displayed exceptional resourcefulness and courage. They saved many lives. They prevented a huge disaster. Benjamin Netanyahu has also hailed the pilot who was injured, named as an Indian national Schmidt Mashar. He's currently stable in a stable condition in Riyadh. Well, the Israeli government says they will increase security checks and vetting on international pilots flying into Israel.

20:34Well, we can speak now to Leza Berman, the Times of Israel's diplomatic correspondent. Good evening to you. Good evening. So, first of all, we have some of the facts of what happened today and a clearly harrowing experience for everyone on board. Are we any closer to understanding why this happened? No, I think for Israelis in general, I think they might not be especially surprised. Certainly at multiple points throughout Israel's history, there's been attempts to hijack planes or to try to crash planes. In 2002, a plane flying from Kenya to Tel Aviv had a shoulder fired missile shot at it, narrowly missing it.

21:17So I think it's a reminder to Israelis that there are certainly forces around that try to kill Israelis and kill Jews when they can. But in terms of this particular incident, we've heard speculation. We've heard the prime minister say it seems like he was trying to crash the plane. But I think what that underscores is how much of a moving target this story continues to be. It changed many times from the beginning of the day when there were reports about a Ukrainian and a Russian fighting in the cockpit. And then it became pretty clear that this was something more serious and it seems to have the hallmarks of a terrorist attack.

21:52But again, a lot of questions remain. We've heard tonight from Israel's foreign ministry, who've called this an attack on the Abraham Accords with the United Arab Emirates. And it's worth remembering, it's only in the last few years that flights between the Emirates and Israel have even been possible, isn't it? That's absolutely true. And I think it's important to stress that after October 7, 2023, the Hamas attacks that started the recent wars that are ongoing, it was only El Al and the two Emirati airlines, Fly Dubai and Emirates, that basically flew every day. So you had Fly Dubai flights flying from Tel Aviv to Dubai every two hours, basically a lifeline for Israelis over the last three years.

22:30So I think the fact that this line was targeted might have some more meaning as well. And we know, of course, that there is an election coming up in the not too distant future in Israel. We've seen pictures today of Benjamin Netanyahu meeting some of the hero passengers as he's described them. Politically, how is that feeding into things today? Sure. I think we can count on Netanyahu to try to make political gains where he can, especially something like this. I think it's no surprise that he made sure to get down to the airport and had himself filmed with some people who are heroes from that flight.

23:05Yeah, less than a month to go. And you can see that Netanyahu is trying to focus on the threats that exist in the Middle East. Just yesterday, he was talking about attempts, kind of undefined attempts by enemies to carry out an attack before the elections. He wasn't very specific about that. But he is facing a difficult election. No polls show that his coalition can reach the requisite 61 seats. So I think whatever happens in the next few weeks, and a lot can happen, this being the Middle East, he will try to do what he can to remind people that there are threats and to try to convince them that he is the one, the only one who is qualified to confront them.

23:40And briefly, if you would, the significance of these greater checks on pilots? It's difficult. So Israel obviously and famously has very strict checks on its own airports and on its own airlines. It has less control over foreign airlines flying into Israel. All it can do really is come to agreements with these countries. Now, if you look back a week, Israeli airlines still have not been able to fly into Dubai and Abu Dhabi. It's only Emirati Airlines. And a week ago, there was a report that they hadn't been able to agree on the security of those flights. So there have been some disagreements over security.

24:19But now after this incident, it seems like that they are going to tighten everything up and come to agreement. So it's not totally in Israel's control. No, of course. Liza Berman, thank you so much. The Times of Israel's diplomatic reporter. The main headlines so far on The World Tonight. Tributes have been paid to the broadcaster and assisted dying campaigner, Dane Esther Ranson, who's died at the age of 86. And as we just heard, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has praised passengers and crew on board a flight from Dubai to Tel Aviv after a stabbing in the cockpit. Now, welcome back.

24:50The words of French President Emmanuel Macron at the prospect mooted by Prime Minister Andy Burnham in yesterday's Labour conference speech of Britain rejoining the EU. It was one of several significant announcements in that speech and the Prime Minister has reiterated the points in interviews since. Here he is with the BBC's political editor Chris Mason, as Chris pressed him on whether a future Labour manifesto might include a promise to hold an in-out referendum on the issue. So it wouldn't be in a future manifesto, an in-out referendum? I think we'd have to see where the options fell out, what people feel about them, and then, depending on what people seem to be pointing towards, what we then do.

25:33Oh, yeah, things are possible. I think where we are isn't good enough. Emmanuel Macron responded to the suggestion of undoing Brexit when it was put to him at a press conference alongside the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez. Welcome back.

25:52If the British want to come back, Prime Minister, in that sense, I think that is very good news, both for his country and for Europeans. And I think the British have always been useful in helping us simplify things as demanding partners, with whom bilateral relations also continue on issues such as defence, security, immigration and many strategic matters. But I think that it would be a good decision, and I think he is right to show that boldness. Well, Spain's Prime Minister also said his country would open its arms to any bid from the UK to rejoin the EU. But would all of the EU be so welcoming?

26:28And what could a deal to rejoin look like? I've been speaking to Eleonore Caué, who is France's Foreign Minister for International Partnerships. Would she welcome such a move from the UK? I've said it before, it would be a great idea. Of course, it comes with duties, with responsibilities. It cannot be a pick and choose among the union's freedom. But of course, in the right context and with the right process, it would be something that we would welcome, of course. How is it perceived in the EU that people in the UK are still debating whether they want to be inside or outside? My feeling is the UK leaving the EU came as a shock to many of us.