England out of the World Cup

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:06He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

1:02the match tonight. Donald Trump's choice to head the Department of Justice has been grilled at his Senate confirmation hearing about his friendship with the President, whose personal lawyer he used to be, and about his role in the controversial release of the Epstein files. We'll hear from Washington and speak to an Epstein survivor. Also, the French Parliament has passed assisted dying legislation, and why do so many best-selling works of fiction feature murdered women? And so the hurt goes on. This time it was reigning world champions Argentina who plunged in the dagger beating England 2-1 in the World Cup semi-final in Atlanta just a few minutes ago the match came to an end it had begun intense fashion there were plenty of fouls it was in fact the world first World Cup match since 1966 not to see a single shot in the first 30 minutes and then in the second half 56 minutes in Anthony Gordon scored for England.

1:54Rodgers having a look looking for Gordon

2:03That will do nicely.

2:10Could they hold on though? Well, Argentina certainly piled on the pressure. And at 85 minutes, Lionel Messi, the star of the Argentina side, passed to Enzo Fernandes. Messi against Spence, quick feet, then passes it. Enzo Fernandes, he's going to have another goal, he's scored! It's the equaliser!

2:32Argentina draw level through Chelsea's Enzo Fernandes, and one of the Argentiners, so Barco, has run onto the field. Right, he's running around the England players. And then, in extra time, the 92nd minute in fact, a second and what turned out to be a winning goal. Messi on the right, his cross to the back post, he's headed in! It's 2-1 Argentina and Lautaro Martinez from point-blank range. Well, we are joined now from the Atlanta Stadium in Georgia by Henry Winter, football journalist for World Soccer, former chief football writer for The Times and like every England fan, crushed, I'm sure, Henry.

3:15I mean, not crushed, more disappointed with Thomas Tuchel's defensive substitutes that cost England. You can't do that against a team of Argentina's quality. They've got Messi. They've got Lautaro Martinez, who came off the bench. And it was just poor. We're now seeing them celebrating with a Malvinas banner. I think it'd be interesting to see what FIFA does about that, to rub it into the English. But it was poor from Tuchel. He believed in his defenders that he sent on O 'Reilly, Dan Byrne and Esri Konza. but when you're playing against a player like Messi and a team of Argentina's heart and experience and streetwise ability, that was always a risk.

3:59It was such a scrappy start, wasn't it? Well, it was a predictably terrible start. I mean, not a particularly experienced referee who wasn't going to clamp down. He wanted things to flow but it was never going to flow in a game like this. Argentina wanted to make it a street fight. They wanted to close down and make life difficult for Bellingham. Elian Anderson, who's been absolutely superb for England, he was fouled three times in the first 10 minutes, and the referee just sort of let things go. So, yeah, I think that sort of set the tone. But look, you have to give huge credit to Argentina. I mean, their defiance, okay, Tuchel gave them a way back into the game with his substitutions, but what spirit they've got.

4:42Enzo Fernandes took his goal well. Lautaro Martinez came off the bench and took his goal brilliantly. but this is down to Messi. This is down to one of the greats of the game. Up with Maradona, up with Pelé and he just showed here at 38, 39 he can just sort of walk occasionally in games and then just turn on the style, deliver the ball and destroy a defence. So the England team will be thinking and the manager in particular as you've laid out what might have been. Well, they will and I mean it's a very frustrating moment because Harry Kane is, what, 32? OK, so he'll go to the European Championships on English soil.

5:22But he's our greatest ever centre forward. So prolific, all those goals. And you just needed England to do it. You know, when will they go this close again? You've got Jude Bellingham sort of coming into his prime outstanding. You've got some very good young players. The under-21s are back-to-back European champions. So there is a supply line there. But who can succeed Harry Kane? There isn't really anyone. So this was going to be England's tournament if they were going to end all these lengthening years of hurt. I just want to turn to the final now. I know we're reflecting on disappointment for England, but Spain versus Argentina now.

5:59What are your thoughts about that? Well, we should turn our attention to them and celebrate the tournaments they've had and think what we can learn from them, whether it's streetwise, whether it's a substitution, whether it's even more youth development, whether it's the maturity and intelligence with which Spain play. I'm sure all England fans will be willing Spain to win. I mean, they're a team without many flaws. I mean, you look at their goalkeeper, Unai Simon, and you look at their reserve goalkeeper, David Rao, the best goalkeeper in the Premier League. We've got to develop more players.

6:31I think also particularly defensively, I think the academies and the Football Association will have to look at that because we're developing some fine attacking players. We just need some more defenders. Henry, thank you so much for joining us. Henry Winter there joining us from the Atlanta Stadium in Georgia, reflecting on England's defeat 2-1 against Argentina. Well, the match certainly had an extra off-the-field frisson because of the recent history between the two countries. Nowhere, perhaps, is that felt more keenly than in the Falkland Islands, especially after Argentina's vice president had called England invaders and usurping pirates.

7:06Its foreign minister said the population of the Falkland Islands was, quote, artificially implanted by the occupying power. All of that in the run up to tonight's match, as Henry is saying, their chance of Malvinas in the stadium by the Argentina fans. Let's speak to Dot Gould now, a Falkland Islander politician. She served as a member of the Falkland Islands Legislative Assembly for camp since 2025 and has been watching the game at the pub. Gosh, Dot, what are the emotions like there? good evening and thanks for having me to speak to you tonight obviously the emotions have been running high for the last few hours watching the match as it unfolded yeah I mean obviously it's quite an emotive emotive game for us with versus Argentina and we've been supporting England the whole way so as you can imagine a lot of disappointed faces leaving the pub right now yeah what I was going to say what's it like in the pub at the start it was it was very very noisy everyone was very fired up and very excited to be watching the game obviously as the match went on in the second half and Argentina equalised, the mood changed slightly and obviously when they scored the second goal even more doom and gloom and we were just praying and hoping for a miracle at the end but it didn't happen No, and those comments in the run up to the match how have they all gone down?

8:24What, from Argentina? Yes It's the same old rhetoric we expect the same from Argentina all the time It's been like this for decades, to be honest. It doesn't really bother us. Sometimes some of the things they say, well, we know they're completely untrue about an implanted population here. It's far from it. I've just got back, actually, from a visit to the UN of the Decolonisation Committee held in New York. And I gave a speech, along with a colleague, about the fact that we have our right to self-determination here in the Falcon Islands. And, yeah, it was an experience to go there. and for our voices to be heard in that room at the UN.

9:03We're very keen for people to come and visit the islands and learn about us as a community, as a people. We have 71 nationalities living here in the islands at the moment. We're very diverse. So to sort of suggest that we're an implied population of Brits is completely incorrect. Well, Dot, thank you so much for joining us. We'll let you go home and commiserate with everyone else at that pub. Falkland Islander politician Dot Gould they're joining us live from the Falkland Islands reflecting on the England result and coming up later on in the programme How could I ask you to love me when I knew you loved Rebecca still Whenever you touched me I knew you were comparing me with Rebecca Well that was Alfred Hitchcock's Rebecca based on a book but why are so many successful modern novels all centering around the story of murdered women and is it necessarily a bad thing?

9:56We'll discuss that later on. Now, as in this country, there has been a long debate in France about assisted dying and tonight, after years of argument, French MPs have passed legislation that establishes the right of citizens to intentionally end their own life. Here is the President of the National Assembly of France, Yael Brown-Pivet, announcing the results of the vote. Majority 267 for 291 against 241, the National Assembly adopted. 291 MPs voting in favour of the bill, she said there, with 241 against. Well, Alexandre Couchner is a French political analyst. I asked him how big a moment this is for France.

10:40Politically, it's a big moment because it is the major social reform that Macron will put under his name. And socially, it's also one step further to, you know, those in favour would call it more equality and those against would call it more lethality. But the truth is this is the end of a very long debate and of a very long political marathon that should give some ease to those who most pleaded for that law, and those are the patients. And how is it going to work? What are the details of it? Well, there are some very specific conditions should you wish to obtain assisted dying. First, you have to be of legal aid, you have to be French, you have to be afflicted by a grave and incurable disease you have to feel unbearable pain or to be able to present a case in which treatments do not work and you also have to be able to clearly state your will at every step of the process and who will oversee that there's been a lot of debate here in in Westminster similar legislation that was due to apply to England and Wales failed to be passed in this parliament and a lot of debate about consent and how that is overseen.

11:57The same debates took place here in France and that's why they designed a five-step process. So the first step comes from the patient. He or she has to very clearly state his or her intention to obtain the help to pass away more peacefully. This demand has to be made to an active doctor The second step is that this medical professional has to put together a medical team to assess this demand. The patient has to wait for two days, a mandatory reflecting period, at the end of which the patient will have to put in writing his or her clear intention to proceed. What's important also to note is that normally it's the patient who has to make that very last step, which is to take the drugs.

12:49Where are the dividing lines on this politically? Well, the divide is quite clear between the left and the right. The left and centre-left have been voting for this for a long time, while the Conservatives and the far-right have been voting against. The first bill was introduced in 2022, so it's the end of the long march for all of those who were either opposed or in favour. Although it's not quite the end, is it? Because the Constitutional Court is going to look at this now. Yes, absolutely. The French Prime Minister said that he will ask the Conseil Constitutionnel, the highest constitutional court, for the latest seal of approval, if you wish, just to make sure that everything has been processed in the most democratically possible way.

13:34The French public likes to come out onto the streets and voice their support or opposition to major developments. Has it been the case with this piece of legislation? Are you saying that the French are a rowdy bunch? A vibrant democracy. No, you're very right. What's actually extremely interesting is that there's been, of course, a very strong political debate, but there hasn't been very big demonstration. There hasn't been many huge political moves. It's been a rather quiet debate, at least on French talks. French political analyst Alexandre Kouchner on the French parliament passing that assisted dying bill.

14:17He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

14:53Now, at the beginning of Donald Trump's second term, his nominees for cabinet positions were virtually guaranteed to be confirmed. Although senators from the President's Republican Party might ask some probing questions, they would ultimately fall into line. But one and a half years later, things are not so straightforward for Mr Trump's choice to head the Department of Justice. the acting Attorney General Todd Blanche. At his confirmation hearings in the Senate today, he was asked a range of awkward questions by Democrats on the Judiciary Committee, but there were also some Republicans there who have fallen foul of Donald Trump and are not standing for re-election.

15:27Well, as head of the DOJ, he's meant to be independent, but he used to work as Donald Trump's lawyer. So he was asked, are they friends? I'm his lawyer, was his lawyer, and now I'm the Deputy Attorney General. So I met him as his criminal defense attorney. I'm not sure there's very many people who have ever had a criminal defense attorney who calls that person their friend. I now have a... Well, let me put it this way. Are you enemies? No, we're not enemies at all. No. Another line of questioning. President Trump began his second term by pardoning those who had been convicted of storming the Capitol building on January 6, 2021.

16:05So Mr. Blanche was asked whether he thought that was the right thing to do. The Constitution gives the president the full power to pardon anybody for any reason he wants. And so I don't question President Trump's authority or as a decision to do so. And he was quizzed about his role as deputy attorney general in the release of the FBI's Epstein files. He was asked about the controversy surrounding redactions, which had revealed some names of victims. There were mistakes that were made. And so approximately 1 % of the redactions had to be fixed after we released the Epstein files. Chairman, we had dozens of lawyers on call 24-7.

16:46Whenever we learned that any victim's name had been improperly not redacted, we immediately took the document down and fixed it as soon as we could. That doesn't excuse the mistakes of which I take responsibility, but it does mean that we tried to fix them. Well, our Washington correspondent, Tom Bateman, has been following the hearing and joins us now. Tom, he was confirmed by the Senate as the Deputy Attorney General a year and a half or so ago. But is it a sign then of President Trump's honeymoon period being over that his confirmation for the top job isn't assured? I think it's partly that, but it's also the events that have transpired since then when it has come to the Justice Department, which has been a series of rising tensions between the White House and the then Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was fired by President Trump.

17:38A big part of that had been what had seemed to be her botched handling by the White House of the Epstein files, other issues as well. But now her deputy, who, remember, was President Trump's personal defence lawyer in the seat, has been acting in the job now for a while. and is President Trump's pick to take over. I think the issue that he's got, though, and I mean, I was in the room there as you watched Democrat after Democrat put a series of questions to him that made it very clear that as far as they are concerned, he should not be confirmed. So I think they're going to be voting against recommending him.

18:15The key issue then becomes about if this vote is split along partisan lines, he needs to get every Republican in the Senate behind him. And there he has a problem, because at least two of those, as you were suggesting, Tom Tillis and John Cornyn, are really worried about him and are pretty sceptical, largely over the issue of how they have perceived he has handled this issue of Donald Trump's so-called anti-weaponisation fund. But this sort of extraordinary drawn out affair where President Trump as president took out a personal case against the tax authorities, which he controls as president. That case was then settled with this slush fund, as the Democrats put it, to be paid out, they saw, to President Trump's political supporters.

19:03So some Republicans are really concerned about that. It is far from clear that he has won over their vote. and from the questioning today I think perhaps one of them is behind him but perhaps not the other. And it just takes one well that's that's interesting I mean you've laid out some of the controversies that were covered in today's hearing I think maybe some others as well. Well I mean there's a whole range of issues that particularly obviously the Democrats have I mean what they see in Todd Blanch is somebody that they think has become the president's personal protector that is using the entire system of the US justice system to as retribution, you know, to prosecute President Trump's political opponents.

19:47So there were a lot of questions about that. There were a lot of questions resolved about James Comey, the former director of the FBI, who, in their view, has been pursued by the Justice Department wrongly, because President Trump had thought that. But the other big issue here, of course, has been about the Epstein files. And there were a number of Epstein survivors who were in the public seats today. I spoke to a couple of them during one of the breaks. And they're deeply unhappy that they feel that material has still been held back by the Justice Department despite this huge release of files.

20:24They blame Pam Bondi for that. They think Todd Blanche just was not forthcoming. And there were a series of questions from one of the Democrats about whether or not Todd Blanche would meet with those survivors, the one sitting there in the room today, and he simply wouldn't commit to do that. Tom, thank you very much. Our Washington correspondent, Tom Bateman, who was at that confirmation hearing today on that hearing for Todd Blanche, the choice of Donald Trump to be the Attorney General. Well, we can hear now from one of Jeffrey Epstein's survivors, Rena Oh. earlier I asked her what she made of Todd Blanch being put forward to officially become the U.S.

21:04Attorney General. I think he's the wrong person for this nomination. He has already shown us all of the mistakes he has made in the mishandling of the release of the Epstein files. I really am very unhappy with the nomination. He has said today that they reviewed more than six million pages of documents. He says that there were mistakes made and about one percent of the redactions had to be fixed. So he's saying there weren't mistakes made in the release of the files, but there were several million files released. Was that not a sign that there was a commitment to release the files? There was a commitment to release all of the files.

21:49So he released half the files. And that alone, with the mishandling of the job, shows how incompetent he is. And the 1 % he's referring to are the victims and survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. He redacted the wrong names. And the mishandling just shows that he's not fit for this role as a permanent attorney general of the United States. He was also asked about meeting directly with survivors. And he said, I'm prohibited from meeting directly with the ones who are at the hearing. He says, I have met with lawyers for survivors and that he will direct the victims to the right people in the Justice Department if needed.

22:33Now, have you ever tried talking directly to the Justice Department? If so, what kind of reaction have you had? I have not. I have met with the FBI and the prosecutors for the Ghislaine Maxwell investigation and trial. But formerly, I have not met with anyone from the Department of Justice, and no one has ever reached out to me or my attorneys requesting a meeting. So I would like to meet with him. He met with Ghislaine Maxwell. He wasn't prohibited from meeting with her. And that interview, it just sounded like they were just having a normal how are you conversation and just dancing around the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.

23:11Was it wise for him to have that meeting? I think he did it just to bring credibility for his role. And we saw right through him. He was not transparent with her and neither was she. If Todd Blanchett then is confirmed as the U.S. Attorney General, what will that do, do you think, to trust in the government? I mean, we already don't trust him. The public does not trust him. He is not qualified for this role on many levels. He is our president's personal criminal defense attorney. I don't think that his resume, I've gone through his resume, he's not qualified and we don't trust him as it is. And, you know, we're not going to see the full transparency, the full extent of Jeffrey Epstein's crime until the next administration, unfortunately.

24:09Hey, Jeffrey Epstein survivor, Rina Oh there. And a quick reminder, if you want to listen back to any of this programme or to previous ones, you can go to BBC Sounds, where you can also download the podcast. The main headlines so far on the World Tonight, England have been knocked out of the World Cup after being beaten 2-1 by the reigning world champions Argentina in Atlanta. There's been a bit of reaction to that. While we've been on air, this from Prince of Wales, gutted. He says, England, you gave it everything. We are all so proud of you. Thank you to everyone on and off the pitch for an incredible tournament.

24:41The fight and belief you have shown us inspired us all. The most complete England team in a tournament. Hold your heads high. And the same word, the same phrase, the same word used by the Prime Minister. Gutted, wrote Sakhir Starmer on X. Tonight wasn't the result we all hoped for, but this England team has given it their all. Passion and energy they've shown representing the badge has made us all proud. Other headlines, Iran has warned its security depends on controlling the Strait of Hormuz. as the US launches a further round of strikes and the Lower House of France's parliament has voted to legalise assisted dying for some adults.

25:17Now, the top ten best-selling fiction paperbacks in the UK at the moment cover a range of genres, but nine of them have one thing in common. A woman is murdered in them. Well, that plot furrow of femicide is one that writers have ploughed very lucratively for decades. The shy, unsophisticated young girl who dared to follow in the footsteps of the beautiful Rebecca is portrayed by lovely Joan Fontaine.

25:43How could I ask you to love me when I knew you loved Rebecca still? Whenever you touched me, I knew you were comparing me with Rebecca. What is the mystery of Rebecca? What dread secret is hidden within the silent walls of Manderley? The trailer there for the 1940 Alfred Hitchcock film Rebecca that was based on the novel by Daphne du Maurier, of course. The proliferation of murdered women in today's bestsellers has been highlighted by an author, Wendy Jones. She asked on Instagram, what is going on here? Well, what is going on here? Is it unusual? And what, if anything, does it tell us? Joining me to discuss that, Denise Minor, best-selling crime writer who used to teach criminology and criminal law, and Eric Wagner, writer and editor at The Observer and former literary editor of The Times.

26:26Good evening to both of you. Good evening. Denise, first of all, are you surprised by this? I don't know whether we should call it a trend, but are you surprised by the number? I mean, I think this is probably just a snapshot in time but I mean, it is very, very common for that to be the initiating incident in a crime novel because you have to make the reader want to follow it through and make them care about the resolution. There used to be a big thing in crime fiction of sex workers being murdered and writers assumed that if it was a sex worker who's being murdered, you needed a lot of them and for them to die in very elaborate ways because they assumed the audience wouldn't care.