Farage resigns as an MP to fight by-election

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0:39Hello, I'm James Kamarasamy. Thank you for downloading the BBC's World Tonight podcast for Tuesday 7th July. Nigel Farage has announced he's resigning as MP for Clacton and will stand in a by-election. The other main parties have dismissed it as a stunt and say that they won't be fielding candidates. We'll ask what can the Reform UK leader achieve and what does it mean for the investigation into his finances by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. We'll also speak to the last Clacton MP who resigned and fought a by-election. Plus, Marine Le Pen says she will run in next year's French presidential election despite a court upholding her conviction for embezzlement.

1:17We hear from two members of the public about their experience of caring after a public consultation on adult social care in England is announced. And we hear about the holy grail of 13th century manuscripts. A politician who so often finds himself at the centre of the national debate has placed himself firmly there once again today. Reform UK leader Nigel Farage's decision to resign as MP for Clacton and trigger a by-election in which he will stand is an attempt to get back on the front foot after several weeks of being in a place he's not used to being on the defensive. It was on April 29th that The Guardian first reported Mr Farage had received a previously undisclosed gift of£5 million in 2024 from the Thai-based crypto tycoon Christopher Harbourn.

2:06When asked about the money, Mr Farage insisted it was for his security, as in this interview on May 5th. I've been the most attacked physically politician of modern times. and yet despite repeated requests to the Home Office, the police, for protection and help, I've been denied at every twist and turn. This money is the only way I can look after myself and protect myself for the rest of my life. The rules are clear though, aren't they? The rules are very, very clear. The rules are very, very clear. And believe you me, we've looked at this from every legal angle. there is no obligation to declare something that is an unconditional, non-political, personal gift.

2:48And it will ensure I can be safe for the rest of my life. A week after that, the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner announced he was launching an inquiry into whether Mr Farage had broken Commons rules by not declaring the gift received in the 12 months before he became an MP. Mr Farage became noticeably irritated when he was asked about it in interviews. This is his exchange with Nick Robinson on the Today programme on the 23rd of June. We have those rules to be sure that you're doing what is in our interest and not in your interest. So it's very clear, Mr Farage, you've got lots of generous benefactors.

3:23You could give this money back. Well, Boris Johnson got a gift from the same person. Will you give this money back? Will you give your salary to charity? How about that? How about that? I'm not running to be Prime Minister, Mr Farage. If you give your entire salary to charity, then maybe I will. I'm not running to be Prime Minister. You are the main interviewer for our national broadcasters. You equally have a very responsible public position. Then at the weekend, the Sunday Times reported he had received undeclared benefits from another crypto entrepreneur, George Cottrell, who had spent time in prison in the United States for fraud.

3:54Last night, the Reform UK leader was confronted by a Sky News reporter and he accused the broadcaster of unfairly targeting his daughter in their coverage. Mr. Forage, Sky News. Was it a mistake not to declare the gifts from George Cottrell, sir? You tell your bosses, you harassed my family anymore, and I'll take these serious consequences. That's what your organisation has done this morning. Go away. Today, in a statement broadcast from Reform UK's headquarters, Mr Farage again insisted that he had done nothing wrong, declaring himself angrier than he had ever been in his life. He wrapped up what he had to say by announcing he was resigning his seat in Parliament in order to put himself up for election again.

4:34This will be a people versus the establishment by-election. It's a chance to stick two fingers up to the entire establishment, to frankly tell them where to go. And that is why I will be putting my name forward to stand in this by-election. I will fight to win. I will fight to continue the political revolution that reform has started. And I would say this to you, the voters of Clacton. If I win, you win. Because if I lose, they win. And we will never, with the two old parties, get the type of fundamental change that we need to fix broken Britain. But what kind of statement will he make when the Conservatives, Labour, the Liberal, Democrats and the insurgent party to the right of reform, Restore Britain, have already said that they are not going to field candidates in that by-election?

5:29Well, let's speak to our political correspondent, Jack Fenwick. So, Jack, it is now confirmed that none of the main parties are going to stand candidates in this by-election. Have the Greens said what they're doing, actually? But what does it mean for Mr Farage? Evening. Well, as you say, those four have said they will not stand candidates. The Green Party say that it is up to their local branch in Clacton as to whether or not they decide to stand a candidate. But it does sound like they are probably minded to. where a spokesperson said, we are a political party, we contest elections. So it may be that the Greens do stand, but certainly those other four parties, Labour, Conservatives, Restore and the Liberal Democrats not standing, will of course take a lot of the attention away from this contest that it may otherwise have had.

6:21It will of course mean that there is less jeopardy for Nigel Farage. I think he would have been confident anyway, but the fact that other parties aren't standing clearly changes that. I mean, they will obviously be trying to do this in order to sort of take away from what they see as a political stunt by Nigel Farage. Now, when reporters have put it to him today that this is a stunt, he didn't engage with that language. Instead, he described it as a gamble. We saw and we heard that clip from Nigel Farage. He is going to pitch this as the people versus the establishment. Now, that is likely to include the media, other political parties, perhaps the parliamentary authorities that are currently investigating that£5 million payment from the crypto billionaire Christopher Harbourn.

7:14And if indeed there ends up being no other candidates and Nigel Farage is sort of left as the only main politician standing, I think we can imagine that reform will say that others are running scared. They'll say this is an opportunity to fight against Nigel Farage, who they've been criticising for months. But of course, it will mean there are fewer headlines around this in August, which is when we expect it to happen. And what about those questions about his finances? Yeah, as we've been saying, there is still this ongoing investigation by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. Now, while this by-election happens, that will be paused.

7:53But if Mr Farage was to be re-elected, and actually, potentially, even if he wasn't re-elected, that investigation can then be picked back up by the Standards Commissioner. Now, important to say that there is a world in which the Standards Commissioner gives out a sufficiently harsh punishment, meaning that a by-election could be triggered through that process as well. So some people have said that Nigel Farage is trying to sort of get ahead of that but actually it's not impossible that we get this by-election and then we get another one triggered by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner. We know that some politicians have asked the Electoral Commission to look into this£5 million payment.

8:33We know that some politicians have asked the Bank of England to look into some of Nigel Farage's crypto positions. One more point to make on this. Nigel Farage said today that a second investigation is underway relating to those claims that the Sunday Times published around George Cottrell, a close ally of his, who helped him out with security and with social media staff before he was an MP. Now, I'm told that actually reform haven't had any word from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner that that second investigation is underway. They're actually just referring to the fact that the Liberal Democrats have asked for a second investigation to be underway.

9:09usually these things get published on the commissioner's website and that hasn't happened either. So I think right now we can assume there probably is still just the one investigation from the parliamentary authorities. Jack, many thanks. Political correspondent Jack Fenwick there. Well, let's go to Clacton now because the BBC's Harry Lowe is there for us tonight and he's been speaking to people throughout the day. And Harry, it's not the first time that the voters in Clacton have been asked to vote in a closely observed by-election, is it? How are they feeling about it? Certainly not. And I have to say, they are very talkative people.

9:42They're used to journalists coming and taking the temperature here. It's been another hot day here on the East Coast, by the way. The arcades are closed now. The fairground rides have stopped and the Ferris wheel is no longer turning. But when we actually turned up here earlier, we were actually breaking the news to people that Mr Farage had resigned. And there was definitely a feeling of shock. One gentleman told me that his flabber had been gasted. But there was a degree of confusion, too, particularly around the fact that Mr Farage said he was going to stand again. Some people describing it as a political stunt, but others praising what they saw as the Reform UK leader taking a stand against what they characterised as a media stacked against him.

10:19Well, he's done absolutely nothing for Clacton so far, so I don't see the point. Do you think he should have declared the£5 million gift? Of course he should have. And it was from a criminal. I mean, surely that means something. A lot of it is lies now. We were talking about it earlier, they're trying to shame him on things. Now, all right, there is the five million quid. How many brown envelopes are about? We don't know that, but I'll guarantee there is, yeah. I'm very disappointed because he's promised all these things and he's gone back on his promise. And basically, he's just, he's another one in it for himself, money.

10:57Do you think he should have declared the five million pounds? Yes.

11:03Well, interesting. By the time we spoke to people again this evening... Sorry, go ahead, Harry. Sorry. I was just going to say, by the time we spoke to people this evening, the story had obviously changed again, in that we learnt that it looks as if the political parties, as you've been explaining, aren't going to stand against them. So we've been asking people about that, and to be honest, we've had quite a mixed reaction. One woman said it's going to make it all about Nigel Farage. Another person said that the fact that they wouldn't be fielding other candidates makes them feel a deep sense of unhappiness, and that they wouldn't have any true political choice.

11:35One thing's for sure, the political temperature here in Clacton shows no signs of cooling down. Well, Harry, thanks very much for taking that temperature for us. Harry Lowe there in Clacton. Well, Nigel Farage's decision to call a by-election comes amid that investigation into him by Parliament's Independent Standards Commissioner, Daniel Greenberg. As we heard from Jack, it is over that£5 million gift from the billionaire Christopher Harbourn. So what about the processes for investigating alleged wrongdoing by MPs? What impact is this by-election going to have on what is happening? And what about sanctions?

12:12What sanctions can those who are found to have broken parliamentary rules expect? Dr Ruth Fox joins us now, director of the charity The Hansard Society, which aims to promote parliamentary democracy. So let's just rewind and take people back to basics, Ruth. What exactly is Nigel Farage accused of doing and why might it potentially break parliamentary rules? Well, the allegation is that he's breached Rule 5 of the House of Commons Code of Conduct, which is that members must fulfil conscientiously the requirements of the House in respect of registering their interests in the register of members' financial interests.

12:49And specifically, that requires that a new member of Parliament, when they're first elected, has to register their current financial interests, but also any other benefits other than earning salaries that they've received in the 12 months prior to becoming an MP. And that is the allegation, that he received that money in the 12 months prior to becoming an MP at Westminster, but did not declare it in his register. So what about the investigation itself? I suppose the question now, I mean, it's paused presumably for this by-election, but not ended. well at the moment he until he is essentially disqualified as an mp um which will require him to take um what's called the often known as the chiltern hundreds an office for profit under the crown because technically mps can't actually resign their seats legally um they have to be disqualified from office this is a very sort of constitutional uh thing that dates back to to the the 17th century that has to take place first and until that takes place he is still an MP he can't just declare I don't want to be an MP anymore so that process and procedure has to take place we don't know when it will happen but I would imagine over the next couple of days and yes then once he ceases to be an MP the inquiry is paused and you know if he is indeed going to stand in the by-election then it can be resumed once the outcome of that by-election is known.

14:15And if the committee the commissioner finds that he did breach the rules we are looking potentially at another by-election are we well possibly but not necessarily i mean it depends upon what the commissioner concludes i mean there are there are different routes so the commissioner would have to find that it was one of the most a very serious breach of the code um he would then have to report his findings to the parliamentary standards committee the house of Commons committee which comprises 14 members, seven of them members of the House of Commons and seven of them importantly independent lay members, so not members of the House, not got a party affiliation, completely independent.

14:59It's a very unusual committee in the House and they would consider the Commissioner's report and findings and it would be they that would determine the sanction that should apply but then that sanction would have to be put to the House of Commons in a motion and the whole House would have to vote on that outcome. And one of the potential sanctions is that a member is suspended for a specified period from the House, but a recall petition which could trigger a by-election would only apply if the most serious sanction of suspending Nigel Farage for 10 days or more were to be recommended by the Standards Committee.

15:42So there's an awful lot of things to work through before you would get to that stage, but that is certainly one of the potential outcomes. Dr Ruth Fox, Director of the Hansard Society, thank you so much indeed. Well, 12 years ago, another by-election was triggered by the sitting MP in Clacton after Douglas Carswell defected from the Conservatives to UKIP. He won that election, but he later fell out with the UKIP leader, one Nigel Farage, and left the party. He left the Commons in 2017. These days, Douglas Carswell is based in the United States. He's the CEO of a free market think tank in Jackson, Mississippi.

16:18It's called the Centre for Public Policy. And from there, he told me earlier what he thought when he heard about Nigel Farage's decision to call a by-election. Clearly, he's being hounded over issues to do with his finance. And I think what he's trying to do is to avoid the fate of Boris Johnson, who is effectively hounded out of the Commons, by striking preemptively and calling a by-election. And it could just turn out to be a very clever move, but there are risks involved. Yes, I mean, at the moment, it seems like none of the other major parties are going to field candidates. Yeah, I think Nigel's at risk of winning a contest with opponents who've declined to fight and making a grand point to an empty room.

17:01I think that's the single biggest danger. There's also a slight danger that But if during the campaign the issue of his finances keeps on being thrown at him, far, far, far away from Clacton in those other seats he's going to need to win to become the prime minister, some of that mud might stick. What about the people of Clacton, your former constituents? They are having to take part in this by-election. I mean, today, some of them are rather exasperated, even if they are supporters of reform having to do that. They're saying, well, look, we gave him a mandate two years ago. And of course, depending on how things pan out with the Standards Committee investigation, even if he wins this, there might have to be another one in short order.

17:46I think the risk is that some of his supporters, some of them are going to slightly feel that they're being asked to play a role in a essentially political play. So I think Nigel needs to be very, very careful. He earlier spoke about this being a competition between a contest between the people versus the establishment. If he wants it to be framed that way, he's going to have to keep on hammering home the reasons why he called this by-election. It's not enough just to say that at a press conference in London. You have an interesting perspective speaking to us from across the Atlantic where just a couple of years ago, of course, Donald Trump was elected president.

18:24And a very central point of his campaign was that the establishment had enacted a policy of what's called lawfare, using the courts against him. I mean, I don't know if you agree, but there is quite a whiff of that in what Nigel Farage is saying. Do you think it will work in the UK? I think it will work because it's true. I think Nigel is being hounded out of office in effect. There's clearly, in my mind, an orchestrated operation by the establishment to try to force him out of office, to try any way they can to prevent him becoming prime minister. We tend not to talk in Britain about the deep state, but I think there is a deep state and I think it's deeply sinister.

19:08Don't forget. Can I just stop you there? You've made that point. But do you not think he does have questions to answer? You know the British system well. These are questions that politicians of every stripe are asked, isn't it, about their finances in the year before they become an MP? It's all innuendo. And it's all about the supposition that somehow, because he may have received some money from someone who may have made their fortune in crypto, there's something untoward about it. I was in politics for a long time and know all sorts of political parties who took all sorts of funding from all sorts of sources.

19:46The implication that there's something untoward, I think this is an attempted smear at Nigel. Former Conservative and then UKIP MP for Clapton, Douglas Carswell there. And coming up later on in the programme, as Baroness Louise Casey calls for the public to contribute to her review of adult social care in England, we'll hear from two people who have navigated the system. I think the UK is probably in collective denial about the fact that we're all going to be carers, soon to be carers or require the care. And I think collectively as a country, we just are completely in denial about it. And maybe at some level we expect there'll be some help, but we should assume there is no help.

20:29He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right, Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

21:04Because there is no help. Now it was billed as Decision Day in France, a legal decision about a conviction for embezzlement that would determine whether three-time presidential candidate Marine Le Pen would be the candidate for her right-wing national rally party in next year's presidential election. Well, in the end, the court found her guilty, but it did clear the way for her to stand in that election, leaving another decision for her. Well, for her, that is, and for Jordan Bardella, the popular 30-year-old president of her party that's currently leading in the opinion polls and who was expected to come off the subs bench if Marine Le Pen's red card was upheld.

21:41Well, this evening, Marine Le Pen confirmed in an interview on French television that she would be running and she said it was important for democracy.

21:51I think that blocking me from running would have caused an enormous democratic problem because French people, in truth, wouldn't have had the choice and things were being decided for them. I think nothing should be imposed on the French people. They should be given the last word and they will get the last word. Well, we can speak to Catherine Norris-Trent now, correspondent in Paris for France 24. She was in court with Marine Le Pen earlier today and joins us now. Good evening, Catherine. There's a bit to unpick here, isn't there? Let's start with what the court ruled. Guilty, but she was allowed to stand in the election.

22:28Yeah, it is rather complex. So Marine Le Pen was found guilty, confirmed guilty, on appeal of being part of this embezzlement scheme of public money, along with other senior members of her party, of using European Parliament money to pay national party members, so not using it for the purposes for which it was intended. So she was found guilty once again. And her sentences, though, were somewhat reduced. So she did get a suspended prison sentence, three years in all, one of which can be served under semi-house arrest with an electronic tag. And she'd need permission to get out and about for a year.

23:12and also the question of her being banned from public office, that was reduced a lot from five years at the initial sentence down to 15 months, which she's already served. So basically that cleared the legal pathway for her to run for public office, even though she's got this electronic tag and the question of house arrest hanging over her. And so after consultations with her party and her allies, Jordan Bardella, she announced on primetime French TV news tonight that despite this conviction, she is going to run and she's going to take it to the highest court in the land, which is above even the appeals court, the court of cassation, and try and run down the clock legally to run as a candidate, even though she's got this conviction hanging over her.

23:59Right. What's the reaction to all this been? Well, there's a lot of shock and surprise. It was a very momentous day in French politics. So first of all, you know, there were so many journalists and members of the public packing out Paris Central Courthouse. I've never seen it that busy. So it was a real sense that this is going to really mark next year's presidential election because Marine Le Pen and her National Rally Party are by far the leaders in the opinion polls at this stage. So people really wondering, you know, is this going to shape who our next president could be? And then the fact that she was found guilty, people were initially confused about what these changing sentences would mean, wondering what she could do about it.

24:40And then when she came out on TV saying that she was going to run despite the conviction, well, I mean, we're in uncharted territory in French politics. Rival political parties have said that it's disgraceful that her party, the National Rally, are liars and thieves. That's according to France unbowed, the hard left party, and others saying, you know, this is staining the French Republic and political system and that she should not run with this conviction. But interestingly, I think in the ruling, I had a look at the ruling and part of it actually very explicitly said that, you know, we, the court, sort of don't want to influence the democratic choice of the French people.

25:19So in a sense, they've sort of, well, they gave the choice to her, but they indicated there was a political element of the judgment. Yeah, that's really fascinating. And Marine Le Pen said she was very pleased about that. After the initial conviction in the first trial, which was last March, she came out all guns blazing saying that this was politicised justice, basically that it was lawfare in France and saying that this was the judicial system on behalf of the establishment trying to bring her down. So I think the judges really had in mind that when they were looking at what kind of sentences they should give.

25:58In fact, this trial was rushed through the court so that the appeal could be done before the presidential election to leave her time to campaign if indeed she was clear to do so. So there's clearly some taking into account of the politics of all this by the judges. And that's making quite a lot of people uncomfortable. Marine Le Pen is happy about it. She said she's glad that the French people will be getting the choice, saying that they're old enough basically to decide what they want. They can decide best rather than the courts. Catherine Norris-Trent from France 24, thanks very much. Main headlines on the world tonight.