Former neo-Nazi resigns as Conservative council candidate

0:00Hello, I'm James Kamara Sami. Thank you for downloading the BBC's World Tonight podcast for Wednesday, August 5th. A former neo-Nazi who was jailed for anti-Semitic harassment has withdrawn as a Conservative candidate in next year's local council elections. Kemi Badenoch says that she is sad and has offered Joshua Bonehill-Payne a position as a Tory advisor on extremism and anti-Semitism. We get reaction to that from the Jewish community. Also on the programme, a star Cambridge professor at the centre of a plagiarism row resigns. We hear a defence of the FIFA president, Jani Infantino. After an explosive drone is discovered at a German airport, does this represent a new level of danger for Europe?

0:43We hear from the Gen X activist who inspired India's Gen Z cockroach movement, plus the mystery of the dying Kenyan elephants. It was always going to be a controversial selection. This evening, it proved to be untenable. Joshua Bonehill-Payne, a former neo-Nazi who'd been jailed for racially harassing a Jewish MP, now a Labour peer, announced that he would no longer be standing for the Conservative Party in next May's local elections. The party had defended his candidacy, saying he'd been rehabilitated and was working to counter radicalisation. His withdrawal followed a barrage of criticism, not least from the target of his abuse, Baroness Berger.

1:24There's a big difference between going back into society and teaching others possibly about what you did and why it was wrong to making the leap to standing for public office. I think there's a massive distinction there. And this is not just one-off hurty words. This is a man that engaged and indulged in a sustained campaign, not just against me, but about many others. But speaking before tonight's decision, the Conservative leader, Kemi Badenoch, insisted that Mr Bonehill Payne was a changed man who was now helping to fight the extremism he had once espoused. He did a lot of terrible things. I do not minimise that at all.

2:03This is a judgement call and I think in this case I do think that he should be allowed to stand. The people of Somerset may decide that they don't want him but I'm just very concerned that Labour in particular who have had previous neo-Nazis stand for them then say, now that it's a Conservative we have a different view. And before he withdrew his candidacy tonight Mr Bonehill Payne had made a similar case for his selection. When I was first released from prison in 2018, I was supported by many of the people in my local community who understood that I had made some awful mistakes but was wanting to change my life around.

2:43And, you know, I have various jobs in this area and would talk to a lot of people. And I feel that I want to give something back to this community. After he stepped down, he added that Kemi Badenock had offered him a post as an advisor to the Conservative Party on stopping extremism and anti-Semitism. While speaking on PM, the Conservative peer, Lord Vasey, said it had been a mistake to allow the ex-neo-Nazi to run for a council seat, but that he was more relaxed about his advisory role. The key point about Joshua Bonehill-Pain is, while I didn't want him to be a Conservative candidate at the local elections, there is no doubt at all that over the last few years he has shown himself to be somebody who has learnt from his mistakes, who has become a very, very vocal person campaigning against extremism.

3:28And we see many examples across, whether it's Islamic extremism or gang culture, of people who have been in those cultures who have repented, as it were, seen the light, and become actually very, very effective advocates to people who might be tempted to follow the route that they followed in turning them away from that. So in that sense, as an advisor, I can be relatively relaxed about that. I think it's important that we undo the damage. Kemi Badenok is highly regarded by the Jewish community. I was at the Conservative Friends of Israel lunch where she spoke very forcefully in their support, as she has done many times in the past.

4:08And I think that provided that is all transparent and explained, then I can see that that can be a role that he could potentially fulfil. Lord Vasey there. So what does the Jewish community make of today's developments? We can speak now to Phil Rosenberg, President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews. Good evening, Phil. Good evening, James. Was it the right decision for Joshua Bonehill-Payne to withdraw his candidacy? It was clearly the right thing. He shouldn't have been a candidate for any major political party given his actions in the past, his convictions. So it is the right decision for him not to be standing for the Conservative Party.

4:47What do you make of this advisory role he's been given? Let me quote from what Kemmy Badenock said on X this evening. While I'm sad that Joshua feels he won't be given the space to explain his position and represent his community, I'm glad he's going to work with me and the party on tackling radicalisation as part of our Culture and Integration Commission. What's your reaction to that? I'm not sure of all the exact details of that, but I could certainly see it in a few different ways. I mean, clearly, a narrower role in which he might be able to give advice based on his own experiences, frankly, his own crimes that he's committed, could be useful.

5:24As I've said, you know, rehabilitation is possible. Sometimes people can do that. It wouldn't have been appropriate for him to be a councillor, which has a broader role. But actually, maybe there's something in there. At the same time, you know, I've seen that Baroness Berger said that she does not see this as an improvement. And I think part of the problem here has been just not taking into account victims. And I think for all parties, looking at selections, particularly of people who've had these issues in the past, convictions for whatever, but including here race hate, you do need to think about the impact on victims of these things.

5:59So in the end, I suppose, you know, the Conservative Party will have to own this if Mr Bonehill Payne turns out to be a truly reformed character and able to give really good advice and doesn't regress and doesn't use this platform inappropriately, then maybe it will work. But if not, and he continues to cause pain to the people he victimised, well, that will be on the Conservatives, I suppose. we heard Lord Vasey there saying that Kemi Badenock is highly respected by the Jewish community I mean are you revising your opinion is that true are you revising your opinion potentially I mean you sound as though you're putting the Conservative Party on notice well I think to be fair Kemi Badenock has been a very strong ally of the Jewish community over what have been a very hard few years I was at that same lunch that Lord Vasey referred to and came about and spoke very well and was well received and has been well received, I think, in the community in the main and in general, which is, I suppose, why there was a lot of surprise and disappointment at this decision.

7:04You know, that is we've ended in a different place at the end of the day than we have at the beginning. And that may be a reflection of some thinking by different people who are involved in this area. But, you know, this was not the right decision. The fact she said she's sad that he won't be given the space to explain his position and represent his community, I think that's what has caused some head scratching. Yeah, I think that's probably what sticks in the craw of some people. Yeah, I mean, like I say, I mean, you can see this in a variety of ways. It's not that people can't be rehabilitated and perhaps people who are previous extremists who have become de-radicalised can play an ongoing useful role.

7:50But like I say, it seems to be clearly scant comfort for people who he victimised to such an appalling level. I mean, repeated memes and harassment, pornographic material. It was really, really terrible what he did. so to feel that that's kind of been overlooked I think I think has been a mistake and remains a bit of a mistake and I kind of hope that the Conservative Party and particularly Kimber will kind of find a way to come to account with people like Luciana Berger in the way they're handling this. And you'll be keeping a close eye on him you say what what will you be expecting to see and hear from him?

8:33Well I don't know I don't know if seeing and hearing much is going to be a particular win I think it depends if his advisory role sort of genuinely gives a window and an insight into particularly far-right extremism and anti-semitism and enables the Conservative Party and others to tackle those that phenomenon then of course that's a good thing it's something we'd welcome. But, you know, if the platform is used to kind of give a sense that in some way what was previously done is OK or overlookable, well, that would not be a good result. And I suppose that's where the fear might be. And in the end, it's how the Conservative Party, particularly Kemi Badnock, manages that role and that appointment.

9:21Phil Rosenberg, President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, thank you very much. Now the embattled FIFA president Gianni Infantino has been meeting top officials from world football's governing body in Morocco today as he tries to shore up support ahead of the next FIFA leadership election in March The former Real Madrid and Portugal star Luis Figo has become the game's latest high-profile name to call for a change of leadership saying Infantino had quote, debased his office by proposing to sell stakes in the World Cup to private investors That now abandoned scheme led to the resignation of one of Gianni Infantino's senior advisers and to an internal memo from the FIFA Secretary-General referring to a sad and reproachable series of events.

10:06Well, the Times is reporting this evening that Infantino has promised Morocco that it can host the next World Cup final if it backs him, although FIFA is denying that a deal has been done. Spain and Portugal are co-hosting with Morocco in 2030. Well, the European Federation, UEFA, has already withdrawn its support from Gianni Infantino, as have a number of national football associations, including Wales. But the FIFA president does have fans in Africa, where he is credited with spreading football's wealth to poorer nations. Fleetwood Haya is president of the Malawi Football Association, one of FIFA's member associations, or as he puts it, MAs.

10:47I've worked with Gianni Infantino and I've seen his commitment. to growing football globally, particularly in development countries such as Malawi. Through FIFA Forward and other programs, many member associations have benefited significantly. And for that, we remain grateful to him. Malawi, for the first time, we've qualified for a women continental competition. We call it WAFCON. And I can assure you, it was one of the people that helped us. It is Ifantino. I'm supporting Iffantino based on the works that he has done. What, though, of the principle behind this much criticised and now withdrawn plan to partially sell off commercial rights to the World Cup and other competitions?

11:36Does that not make you in any way rethink, given the wealth of criticism from the very top of FIFA, from officials including senior advisor to him who resigned, from Arsene Wenger, senior FIFA official? all people close to Gianni Infantino who have been incredibly critical of it. Does that not make you rethink things? To be honest with you, I do not see any African country. I do not see any Caribbean country. I do not see any small country which financially they are not stable in terms of their government who can say no to that proposal of having 40 million being put into football or invested into football.

12:16Bring that 40 million to Malawi, it's something that can change and can give an opportunity to a girl child, a boy child to play football, to showcase their talent. And I can assure you that Malawi can qualify for World Cup one day. That's completely understandable why a country like Malawi would say this is very important to us in our football. But it was the way it was done that is being criticised, isn't it? I mean, UEFA, for example, saying this was a shabby backroom, opaque deal, secret schemes cooked up by faceless individuals. The FIFA Secretary General, Matthias Grafstrom, of course, saying the plan is a sad and reproachable series of events.

12:54It's the way it was done. There are two sides of the coin. The first side of the coin is the one that I've talked about. I don't want to repeat the commercial side of it. The other side of the coin is now the governor's side of it. I haven't yet seen the actual facts in terms of the full governance processes behind this proposal. You know, it's very disturbing when you hear that Matthias was not involved, when you hear that Arsene Wenger, who is a global football development director, was not involved, and let alone his own advisor was not involved to the extent that he has designed. For me, what I'm saying is that if indeed there were all these governance concerns with drawing this proposal was a good thing.

13:38They need to address those issues of transparency. They have to address those issues of consultation within the FIFA structure. But otherwise, I believe that football, I do believe that football belongs to everyone and any decision must always put the interest of the game ahead of any individual interest. It sounds as though on the principle of it, you do have questions for Gianni Infantino. Yes, 100%. It's very shocking to hear that Asinowenga was not part of it, to hear some of these officials were not part of it. So to me, I'm saying it is a positive step to withdraw that because I do believe that good governance is strengthened.

14:18Absolutely. You're very clear on that. But can I then ask you, why does it not give you perhaps the time, the thought to withdraw your support for Gianni Infantino because of the way this has been handled? The fact of the matter is that this is now off the table. That is a lot of money that is not going to go to Malawi and to other small countries that need it. Jamie, I don't know if it would be right to disqualify someone for bringing up a proposal. I would disqualify someone for making a decision which was for his own personal benefit. Was this proposal, was it not going to be conserted through the MAs?

14:58I can assure you, I can confirm that as MA president, I received an email from FIFA seeking our advice, seeking our endorsement on this. The decision of Malawi MA will not depend on UEFA, will depend on Malawi as Malawi FA. Is there something that is being promised or offered to Malawi, to other African countries, to ensure that Gianni Infantino continues to have your support? I can confirm honestly to say no one African country that has been promised anything in regards to this. My focus still remains on developing football, creating opportunities for my players and ensuring that the game is governed with integrity, transparency and making sure that I do everything in the best interest of our football.

15:51And that means Gianni Infantino should be re-elected next March, does it? I can endorse that. Fleetwood Haya, who is president of the Malawi Football Association. Now the German Interior Minister has said tonight that an explosive drone that was discovered at Leipzig Airport represents a new level of danger. Speaking at the airport in eastern Germany, Alexander Dobrindt described the device which was found near some Ukrainian cargo planes as being part of a professional hybrid attack scenario. Earlier another unidentified device had collided with a DHL cargo plane close to the same airport. Germany is one of several European countries which have experienced what are widely believed to be Russian drones flying over their airports.

16:37But this explosive element is new. Well, let's discuss the implications of that with Elizabeth Braw, Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council's Scowcroft Centre for Strategy and Security. Good evening, Elizabeth. Good evening. What details of this story jump out to you? What jumps out is, first of all, that this was not just a drone. flying above the airport and I shouldn't say just the drone flying above the airport that is serious enough and as you mentioned in your introduction we have seen drones flying above European airports in recent months but this was a drone that was on the ground at the airport loaded with explosives and next to an aircraft the Ukrainian aircraft that was parked at the airport so this is really sophisticated.

17:27How did the drone get into the airport? What was the intention of those, the person or persons who had put it there? And it really sends a chilling message to everybody who uses a European airport or an airport anywhere. Yes, a new level of danger is what the German interior minister has said tonight. Would you concur? Yes, it is. What we have seen in Europe and indeed in North America as well in recent months, years and months, is that mysterious and really quite alarming incidents keep happening in places concerning institutions that we rely on on a daily basis. If you think about a drone loaded with explosives at an airport, that is something that we would have thought improbable, unlikely, impossible five, ten years ago.

18:28And now this is just the most recent incident of an institution somewhere in Europe being targeted. Now Russia denies it's behind any of these, but intelligence services, European intelligence services, Western intelligence services certainly believe it is. If it is, Russia, as is widely suspected, Is this a military development or more of a psychological one, would you say? Well, what Russia has been doing for a number of years now, and especially over the past three, four years, is it has been using attacks below the threshold of war. And that can be anything from cyber attacks to sabotage to using the shadow fleet essentially as a way of causing disruption, causing financial losses, and causing fear and instability in countries around Europe.

19:27So if Russia was behind this, it very much rhymes with the playbook that Russia has been using so far. And what is really frightening about it is that you can't predict where the next incident will occur and what tool it will involve. What about this incident? and its location in Germany, in eastern Germany. What do you make of that? I don't think it's a coincidence that this drone turned up at Leipzig Halle Airport. So Halle is the twin city of Leipzig, and it's located in a state called Saxony-Anhalt, which has elections coming up imminently, as do two other states in eastern Germany. And what we already know is that Russia has been trying to influence these elections.

20:19And from a Russian perspective, it is a fruitful enterprise because there are already many people in those states who tend to be more benign when it comes to Russia and also have doubts about the wisdom of supporting Ukraine. And then all of a sudden you see a drone turn up next to a Ukrainian cargo plane at this airport, which caused massive disruption to passengers and to companies in the area there. So the message that it sends is that supporting Ukraine will just bring you inconvenience, may even kill people. and that message so close to an election again we don't know who who put the drone there but if i were russia i would be quite pleased that it turned up there elizabeth braw thank you very much senior fellow at the atlantic council's scowcroft center for strategy and security and a quick reminder if you want to listen back to any of this program or to previous ones you can go to bbc sounds where you can also download the podcast main headline so far on the world tonight, a man who was jailed for neo-Nazi activism has stood down as a conservative candidate, council candidate in Somerset.

21:38The Iranian president Masoud Pazeshkian has described current interactions with the country's supreme leader as very difficult. And an update for you on another story that we featured on the programme last night. A left-wing activist has won a Democratic Party primary in Michigan. The victory of Abdul El-Sayed means he will be the official Democratic candidate for a seat in the US Congress and if he wins he'll become the first Muslim senator. Mr El-Sayed fought a close campaign against the sitting Congresswoman Hayley Stevens. His victory is seen as a rebuke to the Democratic Party establishment.

22:13It's fair to say it is prompting all kinds of soul-searching within the party about what it stands for and how it should take on President Trump's Republican Party in the midterm elections in November. In a speech Mr El-Sayed said his win was a triumph of grassroots activism over moneyed interests. I just can't say how grateful I am to have earned the votes that we got. We took on a machine. You're not supposed to be able to beat 70 million dollars of outside spending. A record amount of money spent in a campaign against a Democrat in a primary in any campaign. You're not supposed to be able to beat that.

22:50And what we showed is that the power of our many is greater than the power of their money. Abdul El-Sayed, the Democratic Party's candidate for the Senate seat in Michigan. Now, an update on another story that we reported on last night, the growing controversy surrounding Jason Arday, the youngest ever black professor at Cambridge University. He'd been facing accusations of plagiarism and of embellishing his biography. Well, tonight he has resigned, hours after the university said it had opened an investigation into his academic qualifications. Well, following this story, Noor Nanji, she's with me here in the World Tonight studio.

23:29Noor, can you remind us of the background to this? Yes, so as you say, this is Professor Jason Arday, a prominent professor. He has been at Cambridge University. But this plagiarism row actually erupted after another academic, Nathan Kofnus, who was sacked from his Cambridge role in 2024, said that he had found numerous instances of plagiarism in Professor Arde's work and also questioned some of his stated achievements. Now, Professor Arde had been insisting that he wasn't a liar and said that some of the errors in his earlier academic work were because of his autism. And he also told The Times on the weekend that there had been a coordinated campaign to unseat him from the university, which he argued was racially motivated.

24:13But as you say, this has been a route that's been bubbling for some weeks now. And earlier today, we got a statement from Cambridge University. Yeah, that's right. So things all came to a head at around six o 'clock this evening when Cambridge University said that it had launched a probe, an investigation following new information about Professor Arday. And they also said that they fully recognised that there is a person at the centre of this situation and they continue to provide support to him. But in addition, they said that while they were aware of the public and a commentary and the concerns around this matter, it remains vital that any process is thorough and that it adheres to the university's policies and also employment law.

24:52So what exactly has happened tonight? What has Jason Arday himself said? Yeah, so following that statement that we got from Cambridge University, not long afterwards, Professor Arday put out his own statement where he announced that he was quitting. And that was in a letter that was published on the Good Law Project's website. And in that letter, he said that he had faced an unrelenting level of public scrutiny and personal attack and that he needed time to heal. And he was taking this decision for his own well-being, but also that of his family. Now, the letter didn't go into detail about the specific allegations of plagiarism and all of that.

25:32But like I say, he has been insisting that he wasn't a liar and he has been defending himself in recent weeks. But it won't surprise you this controversy has attracted a wide range of opinions. I just checked there's a petition that's been set up in his support by the Good Law Project. It's now just crossed 16 ,000 people who've signed that. But on the other hand, some academics have been saying there are now serious questions to answer about all of this. Noor, thank you very much for that update. Noor Nanji there. Now, let's take you back to some recent rather dramatic events in India.

26:08The sounds there of the youth-led demonstrations which resulted last month in the resignation of India's education minister. It was a rare climb down by the Modi government. As largely Gen Z members of what was called the Cockroach Movement celebrated that political scalp, their inspiration, a much older activist, was still recovering in hospital. 59-year-old Sonam Wangchuk had gone on hunger strike to support calls for education reforms. His 26-day fast in the capital Delhi ended after he received guarantees from the Indian government that there would be changes to the exam system and protections for peaceful student protesters who had been arrested.

26:47Well, my colleague Rajini Vaidyanathan has been speaking to Sonam Wangchuk in his first interview with the international media since the protests. And she began by asking him how he's feeling now. Oh, I feel generally happy that there was accountability on the part of the government, which was very much lacking in the era before this event. There's more sensitivity. There's more confidence among the people, especially the youth, that they can change things if they want to, that they don't have to live heads down, taking everything, lying down. So there's a lot of what I call free air free India that's happening bit by bit.

27:27OK, so optimism there. You've been an activist in Indian politics on a number of causes for years. What we saw, though, really, for the first time, I think, was a prominent government minister resigning in the wake of protests. Did you ever expect that to happen? And how did you feel when you got that news? I, in all my senses, thought that was the most sensible thing for the government to do. In fact, they must be regretting that they didn't do it early enough. They could have saved themselves from so much damage, so much damage and anger and hatred among especially younger generations if they had done it long back.

28:06I always thought that logic says, you know, sensibilities say that they should do. I don't know. They took so long. And maybe it was good for the country because this is how the young people united and they gained confidence in their unity, in their actions. So in a way, it was good that destinies set it like this. But if I was in their place, I would have done this long, long ago, which they finally had to do with much damage to themselves and a sense of victory among the young people and rest of the nation who were feeling suffocated with fear everywhere. It was a very fear-based way of governance and a lot of unjust things happening like in these examinations or elections.

28:52I think it helped people to raise their voice. In a way, I would say good that they didn't do it early because this led to what we have seen. And there's a widespread feeling among people that we have to take things in our own hands. And it works. You said there that these protests and the fact that it took some time for the education minister to resign, did the BJP government a lot of damage? And it did the nation a lot of good that way, I would say. How much do you think this has weakened Prime Minister Modi's position? Oh, terribly, terribly. I mean, people can't even imagine what's happening now.