In short
England’s World Cup group match vs the Democratic Republic of Congo: England trailed 1-0 for 68 minutes in Atlanta, then Harry Kane scored twice—first via a header after substitute Anthony Gordon’s cross, then again in the 86th minute when Gordon and Kane combined. The 2-1 win sends England into the last 16 to face Mexico at the Azteca Stadium. Kane’s tournament tally is five goals; England’s defending was exposed when Congo’s Brian Chibenga scored after centre-backs were dragged out of position and Jed Spence was exposed. Congo’s goalkeeper Lino Lompasi made “unbelievable” saves; Congo are ranked 41st and only their second World Cup in 52 years.
Guests
Joe Linsky (BBC Sports News reporter) and Ben Wright (BBC political correspondent).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOEngland's World Cup Victory Over DRC
1:10 to 1:40
Discussion about England's narrow win against the Democratic Republic of Congo.
“that she laid the groundwork for Andy Burnham's promise to give greater devolution to the country.”
Harry Kane's Heroic Performance
1:40 to 4:19
Analysis of Harry Kane's crucial goals and impact on the match.
“Dear England, what would you do without Harry Kane?”
DRC's Impressive Performance
4:19 to 5:44
A look at the Democratic Republic of Congo's strong showing in the match.
“And in a World Cup where those superstar players have really stepped up for their nations, you see on the golden boot list, Kylian Mbappe, Lionel Messi, Erling Haaland, Vinicius Jr.”
Angela Rayner's Speech on Devolution
5:44 to 6:48
Discussion of Angela Rayner's speech advocating for devolution in the UK.
“I mean, whether or not the gods smile down on them for that match.”
Analysis of Political Dynamics
6:48 to 11:02
Exploration of Angela Rayner's political ambitions and dynamics with Andy Burnham.
“We're going to turn to politics now because one notable Labour MP was absent from the crowd cheering on Andy Burnham when the Prime Minister-in-waiting gave his big speech on devolution in Manchester this week.”
Andy Burnham's Future on the World Stage
11:02 to 14:02
A look at how Andy Burnham's role as mayor may influence his potential as prime minister.
“Well, Andy Burnham is understandably focusing on matters close to the home at the moment.”
Advice for Leadership Transition
14:02 to 15:19
Learning about effective leadership strategies for transitioning to a global role.
“If there was one bit of advice you would give to him as he moves from this role, the role that you share or you have shared until now to the much bigger one on the world stage, what would it be?”
Canada Joins Eurovision
16:33 to 18:25
Discussion on Canada's entry into Eurovision and its cultural implications.
“Who wants to go to other lives, let me live.”
Impact of Eurovision on Canadian Identity
18:26 to 20:26
How Canada's participation in Eurovision can influence national identity.
“have been for decades and that just really haven't been seen outside of our specific borders.”
Expectations for Eurovision Success
20:27 to 21:39
Analyzing Canada's potential success in Eurovision and World Cup.
“And the fact that we're presenting this on Eurovision on Canada Day, I can't see that as anything other than a very deliberate, yes, we are here.”
Show all 15 chapters
Funding Increases and Budget Cuts in Education
21:40 to 23:31
Discussion on the implications of funding increases for teachers amidst cuts.
“Matty McLean, Eurovision superfan host of the Canadian in Eurovision podcast there.”
Teacher Pay and Recruitment Challenges
23:32 to 26:39
Exploring how pay raises will affect teacher morale and recruitment.
“Let's start with that high pay for chief executives.”
Shift to Digital Gaming
26:40 to 28:00
Examining the gaming industry's transition from physical to digital games.
“and so that it's tougher for them to balance the budget.”
The Evolution of Video Game Distribution
28:00 to 33:00
Discusses the shift from physical to digital media in gaming and its implications.
“But is this trend away from the physical, less about getting rid of obsolete technology and more to do with discouraging people from sharing their games or selling them on?”
The Legacy of Humphrey Smith
33:00 to 39:10
Explores the life and business practices of Humphrey Smith, owner of Samuel Smith's Brewery.
“Smith, the owner of the famous Samuel Smith's Brewing and Pub Chain, was described by the mayor of Tadcaster in Yorkshire where the business is based as a true gentleman and a man of principle.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Feel your best and amplify your everyday look with Thrive Cosmetics. Go to thrivecosmetics.com slash shine26 for an exclusive offer of 20 % off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics, C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S dot com slash shine26. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days, counted to£100 ,000 on camera, and even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet.
0:38But it all started when he gave a homeless man$10 ,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, I'm James Kimarasamy. Thank you for downloading the BBC's World Tonight podcast for Wednesday, July 1st. As Harry Kane saves England from humiliation with a brace against the Democratic Republic of Congo, we hear about England's 2-1 win and what it means for English World Cup hopes. Angela Rayner has used a speech to say that she laid the groundwork for Andy Burnham's promise to give greater devolution to the country.
1:18Is she laying the groundwork for a return to Cabinet? Canada joins the Eurovision family. We speak to a Canadian Eurovision superfan, an increase to teachers' pay in England. so what do the teachers make of it, why gaming is not getting physical, and as the owner of the Samuel Smith's pub chain dies, we hear about the quirks and qualities of a very eccentric English pub owner. Dear England, what would you do without Harry Kane? The DRC almost meant RIP for English hopes of World Cup glory this evening, as the Democratic Republic of Congo nearly pulled off a famous victory in Atlanta of what would have been another infamous humiliation for England.
1:58The Congolese led for 68 minutes of the last 32 fixture before England's captain and record goalscorer does what he does best and often heading in across from substitute Anthony Gordon to equalise. And then in the 86th minute, the same two players combined again for the winner. Gordon takes up the mantle. Kane. Kane could get a shot in. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
2:26England have never needed their captain more. Guy Mowbray there with the commentary. In the end, it was more Cameroon 1990 than Iceland 2016. A narrow 2-1 win, but a win all the same. And it gives Thomas Tuchel's team a last 16 date with co-hosts Mexico in the Azteca Stadium on Monday. Well, here was the England captain's reflection on a hard-won victory. After that first hydration break, I thought we upped the level. We looked good. I mean, their keeper made some unbelievable saves in that first half. And it was just about pounding the rock, keep pounding the rock. And our moments will come. We spoke about people having hero moments.
3:03It could be anyone in the team. Whether it's me, a save from pickers, a block from the defenders, whoever it is, we have hero moments. And yeah, for me, it was today. Yeah, it's usually him. Let's have a word now with the BBC Sports News reporter, Joe Linsky. And Joe, the headlines again will be about one man. Yes, Harry Kane is the captain of this team. He's their leader. Tonight he was the man who rescued them because for 68 nerve-shredding minutes, England trailed 1-0 to the Democratic Republic of Congo. And they were heading for an ignominious defeat to rank alongside that Iceland match at the Euros 10 years ago.
3:38To rank in World Cup terms, perhaps even alongside that defeat to the United States of America at this tournament back in 1950. It probably would have been a defeat that would have cost Thomas Tuchel his job as head coach. but as Tuchel said after this match, this is what they expect from Harry Kane. He came to this tournament as the form striker in world football. He now has more than 70 goals for club and country in the last 12 months and his second goal in particular was one of extraordinary forward players. We've heard from the cadence of those couple of commentary clips we've heard in this programme.
4:11Given the situation in the match, given where he was on the pitch, surrounded by three defenders, it is up there as one of the goals of the tournament so far And in a World Cup where those superstar players have really stepped up for their nations, you see on the golden boot list, Kylian Mbappe, Lionel Messi, Erling Haaland, Vinicius Jr. Kane now has done exactly that for England. He has five goals for the tournament, 13 goals for England across three World Cups. That's now more than the Brazilian great Pele at this tournament. And he has propelled them into the last 16 of the World Cup, when for long spells, it looked like they were heading out.
4:44Well, on the other side, someone certainly stepped up for the Democratic Republic of Congo. Their goalkeeper was outstanding, wasn't he? He was. Lino Lompasi was inspired, making a number of great saves. Look, Democratic Republic of Congo, they're ranked 41st in the world. This is just their second World Cup, their first for 52 years. And they were excellent. They were resolute. They were quick on the counter. A couple of their defenders, Axel Twanzaby and Aaron Wan-Bissaka, they had something of a point to prove, really. They both have youth caps for England before switching allegiance. And they exposed one of the key frailties really in this England side, which is their defending because Brian Chibenga's goal came after the centre-backs were dragged out of position for England and Jed Spence, the right-back, was then exposed.
5:28That's now a real problem position for England in terms of injuries. They've lost three players in the squad to injury in that position since it was announced. And that's one of the areas they will have to look to rectify moving forward towards that last 16 match in that iconic Azteca stadium against Mexico. Well, quite. I mean, whether or not the gods smile down on them for that match. If you are going to watch it, and many people will want to, there is some bad news about the timing, isn't there? One o 'clock on Monday morning, I'm afraid. Bad news for anyone who's got an office to be in that morning.
5:57Look, it's just the second time England and Mexico have met at World Cups. The last one, the group stage in 1966. That's the match that gave us Bobby Charlton's famous goal from distance at Wembley. But this tie is very much on Mexico's terms. The Azteca, the venue that staged Maradona's hand of God all those years ago, it's 7 ,000 feet above sea level. It will be humid. It may not be searing heat. The forecast at the moment is kind of in the mid-20s degrees Celsius. But Mexico have only lost twice in competitive matches at this stadium. And their last defeat was 13 years ago. They are yet to concede a goal in their four wins so far at this World Cup.
6:36and yes it's some fixture but one you're going to have to stay up to if you're an England fan back home. Yeah luckily after we're off air so good for us. Joe Linsky BBC sports news reporter thanks very much. We're going to turn to politics now because one notable Labour MP was absent from the crowd cheering on Andy Burnham when the Prime Minister-in-waiting gave his big speech on devolution in Manchester this week. Tonight that MP former Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner gave a speech of her own, which echoed the main theme of Mr Burnham's address on Monday. She argued that legislation she had introduced to Parliament has made further devolution to the regions easier and that the less power is held in Whitehall, the better.
7:16The institutions of central government are unfortunately part of the problem. We have the worst combination of micromanagement and control from the centre without the resource or the focus to make it effective. Whitehall empires hoard their own power and layers of governance and bureaucracy developed with all the best intentions too often end with the triumph of process over purpose. Well, watching the speech for us was the BBC's political correspondent, Ben Wright. Hi, Ben. What's your main takeaway from this? Well, it was as if chunks of it were copy and pasted from Andy Burnham's speech on Monday.
8:02Very much the same themes, an over-centralised state that in Angela Rayner's view, in Andy Burnham's view, is just smothering the economy, a sclerotic centralised Whitehall machine that is the enemy of innovation. She feels that the only solution, one of the only main solutions to Britain's problems, is devolving powers far faster to local mayors, to local town halls, and to really ramping up the evolution agenda. that she was saying that she pioneered in government when she ran the Ministry of Housing, Community and Local Government. And she talked about many of the battles that she had had to fight with the Treasury in particular, for instance, to get new powers from mayors to introduce a tourist tax.
8:42She said there was institutional resistance to fiscal devolution during her entire time of office. And that has to be changed urgently. And I mean, there was no surprise really that it was echoing some of Andy Burnham's themes. He was meant to be delivering this speech, by the way, at the London School of Economics, has other things to do right now. So Angela Rayner stepped in. And it was one of the first times we've seen her, really, for several weeks. Yeah, interesting. Angela the Baptist as a forerunner for it all. But as you say, she's been rather quiet, hasn't she? I mean, look, it's maybe a stupid thing to even ask, but is she making a pitch to get back into government?
9:17Well, I mean, that was going to be my question, of course, after her speech. But she scarpered before there were any questions allowed. So I didn't get to ask her that or whether she thought that the next deputy prime minister should be a woman, a post she obviously held, and whether she might like it again, or indeed whether half the government should be women, as the Women's Parliamentary Labour Party have suggested. I had lots of questions for Angela Rayner, didn't get a chance to ask any of them. But it was interesting that she was there because she doesn't seem to be in Andy Burnham's inner circle at all.
9:45She wasn't at the speech on Monday, didn't have any role, it seems, during his Make a Field campaign. And she's faded fast from view, really, over the last few weeks, having been talked of only a month or so ago as a potential challenger, a potential leadership contender. That has just faded very fast. And now the question is, will she return to Andy Burnham's government if he forms it, as everyone expects in about two and a half weeks time? And what job will she get? And is she over the problems that she had over stamp duty that led to her leaving her post as Deputy Prime Minister? Yeah, well, that had overshadowed her career and her future ambitions for about eight months, because, of course, she was forced to resign as Deputy Prime Minister and Deputy Labour leader after that furore involving unpaid stamp duty on a second home in Hove.
10:36But in May, the HMRC confirmed she didn't have to pay a penalty over the purchase, and they cleared her of any wrongdoing or carelessness. And that did, it seemed at that moment, open the way to her being part of a leadership contest. It happened before West Street and quit the cabinet, before Andy Burnham was selected in Makerfield. There was a chance at that point that she could have emerged as one of the front runners to challenge Keir Starmer. But the timings didn't work out. Ben, many thanks. Ben Wright there. Well, Andy Burnham is understandably focusing on matters close to the home at the moment.
11:09but it is soon pretty clear that he will have a new role on the world stage. So how will being mayor of Greater Manchester prepare him for that? Kirk Watson is Democratic mayor of Austin, Texas, which formally became the sister city of Greater Manchester last year. He's a friend of Andy Burnham's and he admires, amongst other things he told me, his oasis karaoke skills. So how does he think Burnham's time as a mayor will help him as he becomes prime minister? I actually think that he is relevant not because he's leaving City Hall, but because he went to City Hall. He's going to have a mayor's attitude.
11:46And, you know, mayors, they just can't announce they want to do something and then nothing happens. And mayors can't afford to be paralyzed by politics, which so much of our national politics seems to be these days. Mayors are expected to get things done. And of course, we've seen him in that role. So I actually think that his experience as a successful mayor is going to be one of those things that translates well and may change the whole course of this seven prime ministers in 10 years. Well, presumably when he visits the United States next, he will not be visiting his friend, Mayor Kirk Watson.
12:27He might do, but he'll possibly be in the Oval Office. Sure. Well, he has a standing invitation to come to the sister city. Well, I just wonder what your thoughts are on how he might handle Donald Trump, because those Oval Office sit-downs, some leaders have come a cropper. Well, I have a lot of confidence in Andy's skill set. And by that, I also mean not just his ability to work with people, but his ability to find common ground. Donald Trump was asked about him the other day. He said he's the mayor of a town and he's extremely liberal. He's already sort of publicly made those comments about him.
13:08Andy Burnham hasn't commented. But how do you handle someone as mercurial as Donald Trump? Well, and I'm not going to speak for Andy, but what I would say is, A, I think it's unfair to put labels on people that categorically because I think what that does is it immediately removes the obligation to actually listen to people. You try to put a label on somebody and you act like you know everything there is to know about them with that label. And I think that's an unfair thing to do, particularly when I guess he meant to disparage him by saying he's the mayor of a town. And I've just told you how strongly I feel about I think that's going to be one of his greatest attributes is actually getting things done and not engaging in just partisan rhetoric and labeling of people.
14:02If there was one bit of advice you would give to him as he moves from this role, the role that you share or you have shared until now to the much bigger one on the world stage, what would it be? I'd say two, really. One is continue with his subnational diplomacy. You ask a question about where he might end up next time he comes over and visits. But Andy has been a leader, I feel, in subnational diplomacy, a recognition that things can be done at the city or the regional level, and that benefits at a national level. That's one thing. The second is I think he should continue the pragmatic course that he has started of what I think is an opportunity to redefine the modern economic agenda between the UK and the United States.
14:53And by the way, my home state of Texas and the city of Austin, through everything from arts to life sciences. And of course, the state of Texas has recently opened its economic development office in London. And that economic development office is headed up to Manchester in July. The things that he has started, I think he's in a position to help redefine that economic agenda between our countries. I said final point. Just a broader point. Since you brought up the seven prime ministers in 10 years, how do Americans look at that? Well, I can't speak for everybody, but what I see a lot in that is that it's the same sort of suffering we're having at our national political level where people don't feel like things are actually being accomplished at the national level, so they seek consistent change.
15:43Friend of Andy Burnham's, the Democratic Mayor of Austin, Texas, Kirk Watson.
15:52He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or Award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
16:32Let me follow you. Who wants to go to other lives, let me live. Eurovision aficionados, and I know there are plenty of you out there, will recognise the winner of the 1988 Eurovision Song Contest, Ne Partez Pas Sans Moi, sung by Céline Dion. Now, although she is Canadian, the now global superstar was representing Switzerland that year. And in case you're wondering, the writers of the song were Swiss. But if she wanted another go at Eurovision glory, having recently announced that she is returning to the stage after an illness, well, she will be able to represent her home country because from next year, Canada will join the Eurovision family, its first new member since Australia back in 2015.
17:16Matty McLean is a Eurovision superfan and host of A Canadian in Eurovision podcast and joins us live. Matty, how pleased are you? I mean, I'm positively chuffed, I believe, as you say. It is a very exciting time, a very complicated time, but I feel like this is a fantastic opportunity for Canada, and I'm excited to potentially help share it even further. Why a complicated time? Oh, you know, just some geopolitical stuff, but Eurovision being a classical... You're talking about the general Eurovision, yes, the geopolitics. But I mean, for Canada, what does it mean to actually be part of the song contest?
17:57The idea of Canada has always been a country that's trying to prove itself. For decades, for centuries even, we have been put up pretty much right in proximity to America, which tends to dominate a lot of the entertainment industry. Despite that, Canada has actually had quite the musical background, quite the musical legacy, with some of the best artists that never, frankly, leave our borders. And so with this contest coming up, I think it's an amazing opportunity in terms of Canada actually presenting how excellent and how exciting our musical products have been for decades and that just really haven't been seen outside of our specific borders.
18:36How was it when Celine Dion won it for the Swiss? I mean, to be fair, Canada following Eurovision is a bit of a newer trend, at least from what I've seen in my lifetime in the past 10 years or so. Seeing the popularity of the contest really exploding here in a major way. It is still very much an under the radar thing. But now that we are a part of it, I fully expect it to blow up. But like Celine Dion's obviously beloved, but most people don't know that she started there in many ways. Well, you've been trying to put it on the radar, haven't you? You created a theatre show called A Canadian Explains Eurovision to Other Canadians.
19:13So how did you, or how have you been explaining it? And have you been successful? I would I would say I explain it very well I am unbiased of course but people have come into the show not knowing anything about Eurovision other than it's a vague idea in their heads and they leave being like I had no idea that it's such a cross-section of so many things because it's it really is Eurovision is the biggest entertainment stage in the world arguably it is artistic it is incredible it is something that gives micro everything from like micro nations all the way up to major major players an equal stage and the opportunity to represent themselves for at least three minutes with a song and that opportunity doesn't come around very often today's canada day isn't it that's it's a big day for the country so you know is it appropriate that this news has dropped on that day i think so i they they knew what they were doing they planned this from the start uh canada day is a big deal here especially in in recent years, Canada Day is taking on more of a, especially with the pressure from America and a lot of different rhetoric in regards to America still claiming that Canada is the 51st state and other craziness like that, there is a lot of pressure for our own national identity to kind of be present.
20:32And the fact that we're presenting this on Eurovision on Canada Day, I can't see that as anything other than a very deliberate, yes, we are here. Yes, this is what we want to do. And yes, this is putting ourselves on a new stage in a new connection that I think is just incredible. What are the chances of Canada winning the World Cup this year and Eurovision next? I'm the wrong person to ask about the World Cup. I can't imagine why. No, Eurovision in regards, the last country to enter Eurovision and win the first go was Serbia in 2008. And technically they were a part of Serbia and Montenegro the couple of years before and were consistently doing well.
21:11So that's not like such a huge surprise. Australia entered, they came, they did consistently well. The second year they entered, they came in second. Our chances of coming in first excellent at the go. I mean, our quality of music is there. So it's possible. And I mean, if I'm some way behind the helm, I have to assume it's going to be better. But apart from that, like, Do we stand a chance of winning the first year? Honestly, probably not. But will we do extremely well and better than people expect? Absolutely. And if we win, hey, that's just gravy. Matty McLean, Eurovision superfan host of the Canadian in Eurovision podcast there.
21:48Now, a government announcement about an increase in funding that comes with a cut in existing budgets. Yesterday, it was defence. Today, it is teachers pay in England. The Department for Education announced that from September, teachers will get an extra 3.5 % and an extra 3 % the following year. The over£1.8 billion rise in funding will require schools, though, to fund the first 1 % from their existing budget. So how is that going down? We spoke tonight to Jackie Fieldwick, the CEO of Brunel Academies Trust and Brunel Education, which operates mainstream primary schools in Wiltshire, which have a particular focus on special needs.
22:25Really, really challenging. That inflationary increase, quite rightly, teachers deserve to have that increase in terms of their salaries and they're working really, really hard. But where funding does not match that salary increase in terms of the high-needs funding allocation to local authorities, that has been frozen this year. Today's announcement also contained news about the upper pay limit of top leaders in academy trusts, with the government having to approve any request for salaries above£174 ,000. But according to the news outlet Schools Week, across England's roughly 2 ,000 academy trusts, only close to 100 chief executives earn more than£200 ,000.
23:04We asked Jackie whether the changes will affect her school. It'll directly affect all of us, all leaders. And I think we're all looking at our central function, the way in which that operates. We are all looking at those salaries. And I think that's right and proper, that there is the right scrutiny. We need to be able to pay our leaders the right amount or a salary that is commensative with the responsibility. And most importantly, we need to recruit to those positions. Well, joining me now, Gronje Hallaghan, who's a former teacher, now journalist at the Education Research Organisation Teacher TAP.
23:38Good evening, Gronje. Hello. Good evening. Let's start with that high pay for chief executives. I mean, how is the sector reacting to this? So we know that teachers generally support the idea that CEO salaries for trusts should be capped. So when we asked our teachers about this in the past, about three quarters of teachers support a cap of around£200 ,000. So I imagine that, you know, your average classroom teacher will hear this and think, that's good news. This is something that I can get behind. I don't think that people should be paid very, very high amounts for this job. However, when we look at it and think about, you know, how many people is this going to affect, it's not going to make a great difference to budgets and the difference to classroom teachers actually, it won't mean anything to them, but I think the sentiment that these people shouldn't be on very, very high salaries will be agreed with among your average classroom teacher.
24:38And what about regular teachers, if you like? We heard there about the staff morale and recruitment being an issue. What will the impact of these pay rises be, do you think, on hiring, for example, on recruitment? Yes, you're absolutely right. Morale is a really serious issue among teachers. And we can see that in the retention of our classroom teachers. Many teachers leave in the first three years of teaching. What can we do to keep them, to make them stay? Money is obviously a powerful tool. And if we're going to offer 3.5 % this year and then 3 % the following year, that gives them a bit of stability, headteachers can plan, but the news about inflation and the potential inflation topping this, then effectively teachers will have a pay cut and that makes it a much less appealing profession to stay in.
25:28Yeah, I mean, the teacher we heard from there, I mean, her school has focused on special needs, which clearly is something that the government has been focusing a lot on In terms of existing staff and how they can be helped with that, what are we seeing? So we know that special educational needs puts big pressures on schools' budgets, partly because they have to fund the start of any child who comes to their school and has an education and healthcare plan. The school must find the funding for the first part of that plan and then they receive a little top-up for the rest of it. And that puts a big pressure on school budgets.
26:07But you've also got many, many children who have needs that won't meet the criteria for having this extra funding. And the schools must be able to cope with them to meet those needs to try and help them access education in the classroom. This puts pressure on teachers. One, because their job becomes more difficult, more challenging. They might not have the resources in the classroom to do it. This means they've got to find them themselves. It puts pressure on the role. It makes the role more difficult. and also just generally in the school, more money must go towards these students. They must find a way to help them access education and so that it's tougher for them to balance the budget.
Read the full transcript
26:45Gronja, many thanks. Gronja Hallaghan there, former teacher, now journalist at the Education Research Organisation, Teacher Tap. Now let's not get physical. That seems to be the message coming from the gaming industry. Last week we learned that the new edition of the popular Grand Theft Auto won't be released as a disc. Today, Sony announced that from January 2028, all new games for their PlayStation consoles will be digital only. Buying a physical copy of a game to take home and play has been common since the earliest days of computer gaming. The days when what we would now recognise as yesterday's world was featured on Tomorrow's World with Raymond Baxter.
27:24Here's a brand new idea from the United States which can turn your television set into a game that two can play. All you have to do is unplug the aerial, plug in the electronic game simulator, and having made your choice of game, you select the appropriate programming card, select it into the master control unit, which you have to have for any game, and of course for tennis, you have two player controls. Programming cards, they were followed by cassettes, cartridges, floppy disks, then eventually disks that look like CDs or DVDs. Well, these days, most people buy digital-only games. But is this trend away from the physical, less about getting rid of obsolete technology and more to do with discouraging people from sharing their games or selling them on?
28:12Well, I've been discussing this with gaming journalist Vicky Blake, who has seen the format that video games come in evolve over the years. Unfortunately for me, I've been around quite a while. So I've gone through every single permutation there's been. So I grew up with floppy disks and then moved on to cartridges and then disks and then increasingly now digital. So, yeah, there's been a massive change, mainly as games have got bigger and they've required more space. I think that's part of the appeal, actually, for some developers to go for a digital download. Yes. So tell us exactly what it is Sony has said will happen after 2028.
28:48Sony has decided to go all in on digital, which means you won't be able to go to your Tesco's or your local shop to pick up a physical edition of a game that comes in a box and has an instruction manual or anything like that. So that means you'll have to buy it via the online store, which means there's no competition. You can't shop around for which one that's cheaper. What about sharing? Because there was this almost, well, it was a mocking online tutorial, wasn't there from Sony back in 2013 after Microsoft briefly planned to limit playing of Xbox games to just one account, which had one guy handing a disc to the other saying, this is how you share your games on PlayStation 4.
29:30It looked as though it was going to be some long tutorial and it was just that one guy handed a disc to another guy, i.e. Sony were laughing at other rivals doing something that it looks as though they're planning to do themselves, making it more difficult to physically share it. It's not aged well, has it? It's a joke that hasn't aged well, and the comments on there are already quite spicy. So it's quite interesting to go have a look. I mean, it's a huge problem not to be able to loan games to people. I grew up at a time where I didn't have a lot of money as a kid. So you swap games with friends and with members of the family.
30:05I know lots of people who even now, games are expensive. So, you know, if you want to get... Sorry, just about it. Won't you be able to share the digital version, though? You can share digitally now. Well, not easily, I think is the correct answer. So, for instance, my son has access to some of the games on my PlayStation account, but that's because I've allocated him as a family member and we're in the same house. So because we're using the same IP, Sony permits him to share the game with me. However, we can't play the same game at the same time. So, you know, if you're a mum or a dad and you've got two teenagers with two PS5s, you're going to have to buy two versions of the game if the kids want to play at the same time.
30:48And what about digital-only games that have come out already? How many of them have sort of simply disappeared? Oh, I mean, loads. It is a huge problem right across the industry, really. There's a consumer movement at the moment called Stop Killing Games, which is picking up traction both in the EU and across the water in the States. Because, you know, you can buy a game, particularly if it's a live service game. and a live service game means you can only access it if it's live on a server when you turn it on to play it. And increasingly what we're finding is that digital, well, all games, it's not digital games.
31:22Actually, even if you've got a physical game, it can happen. But if a developer or a publisher chooses to turn the server off, you cannot play that game. That disc is pointless and you won't be able to play it again. What's your advice sent to people? Should they hang on to their physical media? Always. I mean the vinyl that I got rid of in my time that I would love to have but now would be really good so yes I would if you've got the space and you can afford it then absolutely but I think what's the saddest part of this is about conservation there are so many brilliant digital only games that will never ever see physical release and may just completely disappear in the expanse of time I mean it's already happening and there'll be plenty more that happens too and it's easy as you can serve those games when they're on disc it's much harder to do it when they're digital and do you need if you've got an old sort of playstation 4 or something you need to you need to hang on to that console yes and unfortunately that's what my husband's dealing with at the moment within in the attic with many many old consoles all piled up on each other console graveyard is it it is and and game great i've got a lot of stuff in our attic but the truth is some people sell their consoles to be able to upgrade so lots of people would have got rid of their ps4s in order to purchase a ps5 and i don't know how valuable that will be with that disc as well so it has huge implications on the second hand market the gaming journalist vicky blake now his is a common enough surname but he had an uncommon approach to the pub business he ran for more than 40 years until his death which was announced today at the age of 81 humphrey Smith, the owner of the famous Samuel Smith's Brewing and Pub Chain, was described by the mayor of Tadcaster in Yorkshire where the business is based as a true gentleman and a man of principle.
33:14Those principles included banning a range of items from his pubs, including music, television and often the use of mobile phones. Mark Blacklock is a journalist who has dug deep to try and uncover more about this eccentric man and his business. First though, I asked him to describe a typical Samuel Smith's pub. There's a sort of fairly standardised decor. Indeed, there was a centrally mandated form of decor for a while so traditional carpets i mean think traditional country pub horse brasses it varies quite often from location to location so there'll be some decoration that's kind of tied in to wherever the pub is to the local history but you what you will notice straight away is that there are no tvs and no music uh the emphasis is placed on beer and conversation.
34:00What about the beer? Well, actually, really good. The stout is my favourite. The mild is excellent. I don't get along with the bitter, but I think it's a very traditional Yorkshire ale. The lagers are superb. I mean, really, it really is good beer and that's been very important to them throughout. Well, let's turn to Mr Smith. You described him in the article as Britain's strangest businessman can you elaborate well for a start the business was opaque in business terms because in 1982 they made the extraordinary decision of uh of making it an unlimited liability company taking it essentially dark uh so valuing privacy over over risk that that meant that the directors were personally liable for debts and losses.
34:57And so it meant it was very, it's always been impossible to really value what it's worth. So that's unusual. And then Mr Smith's approach to managing the estate was unusually hands-on for someone of such high worth. And that involved, as you've already sort of hinted at, banning quite a lot of things or saying that they just weren't welcome in his pubs. Yeah, indeed. And diktats would come down from the brewery and management couples had a sort of choice to what degree they obeyed those diktats. But, you know, a number of things, swearing was banned. At one stage, there was a crackdown on children.
35:39Bikers were not welcome. There was a notorious incident in the John Snow in Soho where two men were ejected for kissing. So there was a very particular line of tradition and, should we say, traditional, very old-fashioned Christian morality that was coming down from HQ. There'd also been some criticism of how he dealt with his staff. Yes, Mr Smith would make decisions on hiring and firing on the spot if he felt that the pubs weren't being run to his satisfaction. and he would kind of call around and do spot checks. I mean, I think until very recently, still doing that was popping into pubs to see how they were being run and check up on management couples.
36:25And that ended in an unusually high number of employment tribunals because essentially he didn't always have a legal right to do that once people had been employed for more than a couple of years. And in terms of this, you described it as eccentricity and others have as well, But these rules that involve making sure TVs, music, mobiles, swearing, you know, are not there in the pubs. Are there upsides? I mean, you know, people go to pubs for different reasons, but sometimes it's to get away from those sorts of things. Yeah, well, exactly, James. I mean, I have to say my view on that changed over the course of reporting the piece.
37:05You know, I found that I came to really value the quiet and that emphasis on conversation and drinking in Smith's pubs. And it's increasingly rare, right? Vanishingly rare. So there's no doubt, you know, for everyone I spoke to who thought Humphrey was a dictatorial, who'd come up against him, there were an equal number of people who really valued what he stood for and what he did. And very much a man of his place, of Yorkshire. Indeed, yeah, and very heavily involved in Tadcaster, where the brewery is, had very strong views on how Tadcaster should be developed and planning around Tadcaster. You know, indeed, one of the other reasons that I became interested in reporting on Mr Smith was that I was told that he kept a planning barrister on retainer, which is a very unusual, very expensive thing to do.
38:01but he was involved in an extraordinarily high number of planning disputes because he just simply didn't want any development in the Green Belt around York in the old weapon take of Ainsty. And he fought that all the way, frequently to judicial reviews in the highest courts. You didn't get to meet him, did you? What sort of sense of him as a man did you get? I spoke to lots of people who did meet him for, yeah, I didn't. But I am local. And so, you know, I've spoken to lots of people. People describe a very honorable man with a strong sense of decency and duty, but also very difficult, awkward, eccentric.
38:46As one long term friend I spoke to put it, he said, you know, to describe him as eccentric would be an understatement. And, you know, I think he was, because he held his own opinion so strongly and believed it was his way or the highway, he fell out with a lot of people. Journalist Mark Blacklock on Humphrey Smith, long-time owner of the Samuel Smith Brewery and Pub chain, who's died at the age of 81. Our closing headline tonight. England have avoided a major humiliation at the World Cup after coming from behind to beat the Democratic Republic of Congo 2-1 in Atlanta. Captain Harry Kane scored two late goals to send England to the last 16.
39:23They will now face Mexico in Mexico City in the early hours of Monday. And that is The World Tonight. This is James Kamarasamy for now from me and everyone on the programme. Good night. He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballon d 'Or award five times. He's the all-time leading goalscorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo.
39:59That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
From the publisher
Harry Kane's two late goals against DR Congo spare England a humiliating exit from the tournament. We hear how the squad made it through to the last 16 after their match in Atlanta.
Also on the programme: Labour MP and former deputy prime minister Angela Rayner backs Andy Burnham's call for greater devolution of powers from Westminster. And Canada will take part in the Eurovision Song Contest for the first time in 2027 - we speak to a Canadian Eurovision superfan.
