'Most massive' Russian attack on Kyiv kills at least 25

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0:39Thanks for downloading the World Tonight podcast for Thursday the 2nd of July. I'm Jane Hill. After the latest barrage of Russian missile attacks on Kyiv and details of the death toll among troops on both sides, we're discussing whether anything will persuade Vladimir Putin to end the war in Ukraine. Here, the National Crime Agency has given a disturbing briefing to say it's uncovered an international network of organised, drug-facilitated sexual assault. We hear from a British woman who's waived her right to anonymity after her now ex-husband was jailed for sedating and raping her. And also, a man has been pulled alive from the debris of a seven-storey building that collapsed in the Venezuela earthquakes.

1:24I've been talking to a member of the rescue team that worked for days to free him. The mayor of Kiev called it a most massive attack on his city. Russian forces launched huge numbers of drones and missiles overnight, killing at least 25 people.

1:45That was one of many explosions in the Ukrainian capital. The country's air force said the city had been pummeled by more than 70 missiles and nearly 500 drones. Air defences, it said, had managed to repel the majority of those, but at least 26 missiles, which are harder to intercept, reach their targets. And those targets included about 20 residential buildings, starting fires and causing some to partially collapse. Estonia, which regained its independence with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, shares a border with Russia. And today, Estonia's ambassador to the UK, Sven Sakov, told the BBC that despite these latest deaths in Kiev, The tide in the war is turning in Ukraine's favour.

2:30They have been able to launch more and more of the long-range precision strikes deep into Russia, hitting at the refineries and also has really, first time in large scale, has taken the war visibly to the people in Moscow. Putin is really desperate because, you know, terror bombing civilians is not really a sign of their military strength. It's a sign that you don't have any other options. The view there of Sven Sakhoff, Estonia's ambassador to the UK. Well, this week began with Russia's President Vladimir Putin admitting to the public that Ukraine's attacks over recent weeks on his country's energy infrastructure were obviously creating problems for the Russian people.

3:20So how much pressure is he really under? And how are these latest attacks on Kyiv being viewed by the public in Russia? I asked our correspondent in Moscow, James Landale. The attack on Ukraine has certainly been in the headlines here in Moscow and across Russian media, but the tone has been very different. The Ministry of Defence here has put out a very detailed statement claiming that the attack was very specifically aimed against military facilities, talking about fuel and energy facilities, specifically in Kiev, in the Kiev region, and also talking about military airfield infrastructure in other regions across the country.

4:00And there is no mention that we have seen so far of the civilian deaths that has been widely reported within Ukraine. The other thing that was noteworthy about what the Russian Ministry of Defence said, is that they said that the attack was very specifically in response to what they said were Kiev's previous attacks on civilian infrastructure in Russia. So in other words, the Russians are making it very clear that this was a response to previous long-range strikes made by Ukraine against Russia that we have seen in recent weeks, particularly targeting oil refineries in Russia. Yes. And is it worth rewinding and just reflecting a little on everything that Vladimir Putin said on Sunday, whether his tone, whether what he said was a shift?

4:52Well, I think the Ukrainian deliberate targeting of oil refineries in Russia has meant that there is now a significant shortage of fuel. This has led to queues in petrol stations. It's led to rationing. It's led to petrol stations being closed. and it is of such a gravity that Vladimir Putin at the weekend felt the need to actually address it publicly and actually admit that there were to quote him problems both for motorists and for farmers. He made it very clear that more had to be done so he's promising the Russian people more air defences, faster repairs to the oil refineries and certainly there is a Russian plan to increase the import of refined fuel and there have been some reports on news agencies that already some fuel is refined of petrol and other forms of fuel are coming in from India and possibly from Kazakhstan.

5:44So clearly, this is enough of an issue for the Russian authorities to feel they have to address it publicly. This is a bit of something they cannot insulate from the wider population. And do you get any sense there that in fact, Vladimir Putin could expand things? Because we He had comments from Latvian intelligence saying they were seeing indications that Russia was preparing something either against Baltic countries or Poland. Do you pick up on any of that? Well, I mean, first of all, there's a poll out today from a reputable independent pollster called Levada indicating that, you know, Vladimir Putin's approval ratings are 74 percent, which any democratic leader would bite your hand off for.

6:32But if you look at the trend, they're beginning to dip down in the same way that when Russians are asked, you know, their assessment of the state of affairs in Russia, 52 percent say they're heading in the right direction. Again, not bad. But again, the trend shows is beginning to drift down. But the point is none of that disgruntlement, if you can describe it like that, none of that that's in part driven by the economic pressure. None of that seems to be translating into political pressure. So the question that's been asked in Moscow tonight is not, is Vladimir Putin about to do what the Ukrainians want and engage in talks or make some kind of concessions?

7:13The question that people are asking, if you talk to diplomats and others, they say, is what is Vladimir Putin's next move? What does he do to try and change this calculus? and if he's going to escalate, what would he do to escalate? Now, nobody knows if or when, but that's the kind of discussion that's happening about what he's going to do next. And, you know, if you ask anybody, nobody knows. Our diplomatic correspondent James Landale there in Moscow. Well, I've been discussing What Next with Dr Angela Stent. She worked for the US State Department and also served as National Intelligence Officer for Russia and Eurasia on the US National Intelligence Council.

7:57Given Vladimir Putin's acknowledgement this week that attacks by Ukraine are creating problems for the Russian people, I asked her whether that would be giving him some pause for thought. Well, we've seen no signs of it yet. I mean, he seems to be intent on pursuing this war and believing that he can still win. You had these massive attacks on Kiev on Wednesday night, and they're predicting more in the coming days. He made some remarks a few weeks ago where he said the war will be coming to an end, but he didn't give any timetable. So, so far, we just see him doubling down, despite more public questioning in Russia about how long this war should go on and what it's really doing to the Russian economy and to the Russian people.

8:44Is there a lot of public questioning, do you think? It's guarded because if you question him outright publicly, you tend to land up in jail. But there are other signs. There are some articles that were published recently that questioned the conduct of the war and maybe thinking that they should think about winding it down. So you have these different signs of questioning of the war. And certainly at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum a couple of weeks ago, when the Ukrainians managed to set fire to an oil depot in St. Petersburg, you had economic officials, Russian economic officials, talking about the difficulties in the economy, a coming recession, all of that, while Putin himself in his speech at the same meeting said everything was fine.

9:31But the fact that his economic officials feel that they are able to talk about these things and one of the heads of one of the major banks talk about the difficulties, it does indicate that at least it's acceptable to talk about the impact of the war on the economy. Our diplomatic correspondent, who's in Moscow at the moment, was saying people are saying, frankly, what is Vladimir Putin's next move? What does he do next, given that this war has dragged on for years? What would you say to that? Well, so far, he's doubling down. He's escalating to the extent that he can with these massive bombing of Kiev.

10:09They now say that the Russians are thinking about targeting Ukrainian petrol stations because, of course, there's a huge shortage of fuel in Russia itself and particularly in Crimea. So escalation, many people believe, will be his next move. and people are very concerned that, you know, by this winter, the last winter was very cold in Kyiv. It was very difficult. The Russians were depriving the Ukrainians of electricity, of light, of heat and things like that, that they might even this winter target the water supply. In other words, try and make these major cities unlivable. So escalation, I think, is what most people would predict at the moment until something persuades Putin that he really cannot get what he wants in this war and that it's worthwhile to have a ceasefire.

10:57Now, there was some talk about a sort of partial ceasefire, at least only involving long-range strikes, but that hasn't happened yet. That's one of the things that was apparently mooted. But it really would take more economic pressure on Russia, more sanctions, and properly implementing all of the sanctions on the shadow fleet. That's one thing. And B, more air defenses for Kiev, more weapons. And the problems for the Ukrainians are that even though Europeans are willing to buy the U.S. weapons now, particularly the Patriot air batteries, and then loan them, give them really to Kiev, those are in very short supply because of the U.S.

11:37war in Iran. So the absence of enough of the weaponry, particularly the air defences that Kiev needs, means that it's harder to put that kind of military pressure on Russia on the battlefield. If you were able to, that plus more economic sanctions, that might force Putin in the end to agree to at least a temporary ceasefire and to sit down to serious negotiations. If President Putin did feel under pressure, could you see a situation where actually he would expand outside of Ukraine? Because you'll know that Latvian intelligence sources said they were picking up on indications that Russia was preparing something military against the Baltic countries or Poland.

12:19Is that likely possible in your opinion? I mean, it's quite possible. And of course, they've already been harassing Polish airspace, Estonian airspace. Now these reports about what they might do in Latvia. That's quite possible. I think what they're trying to do is to keep testing NATO's resolve and to try and prove that, in fact, if they did fully attack a Baltic state, NATO actually wouldn't respond. But I think that's probably less likely at the moment than just escalating within Ukraine. Dr Angela Stent, their former US intelligence official for Russia and Eurasia and author of the book Putin's World, Russia Against the West and With the Rest.

13:01Now, just a pointer as to something coming up a little later in the programme. A man who'd been trapped under rubble since two earthquakes hit Venezuela more than a week ago has been pulled out alive. I've been speaking to a member of the team that rescued him. In all honesty, it is likely a miracle for him to survive in the debris pile that he was in, as well as to be successfully extricated from it.

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14:04Now, here we turn to a very disturbing briefing which was given earlier today by the National Crime Agency. It says it's uncovered an international network of organised, drug-facilitated sexual assault, in which victims are sedated before being attacked. The NCA says since it began investigating an online forum last October, it's identified more than 270 individuals linked to that forum and its successors. Well, this sort of sexual abuse has come to public awareness since Giselle Pellico waived her right to anonymity in France. You'll remember that her ex-husband was jailed for 20 years for drugging and raping her while they were married and allowing dozens of other men to rape her while she was unconscious.

14:51Well, since the Pelico case, others like it have started to emerge across Europe. The NCA said today here that it believes it's found a network which has members in dozens of countries spanning every continent. Well, Zoe Watts is from Devon. Her now ex-husband was jailed for 11 years in 2022 for his abuse. She decided to waive her right to anonymity and launch an international awareness campaign in the hope of helping other women around the world. I spoke to her this evening and just to warn you that you may find her interview a difficult listen. I was with my now ex-husband for a total of 18 years.

15:36I would say nine years into the marriage, I became aware that he was waking me in the night to have sex with me. But at the time, he was putting it down to a mental illness. And he was explaining that it was something that he couldn't help. Approximately four years after seeking medical help in regards to that, he sat me down one evening and explained that what he was doing was premeditated. He explained that he was using our son's sleeping medication to sedate me at night, to have sex with me and to take photographs and images of me whilst he was raping me. At the time, it didn't really sink in.

16:32He was very clever with his vocabulary. He used the words sedated and had sex with, and he didn't use the words drugged and raped. And it took me a little while to understand that that is what was happening to me. And eventually, I confided in family that whatever was going on within my marriage, It just wasn't normal and it wasn't feeling safe. It was at that point that the police were called one evening. From that time, the police were explaining to me that if I was sedated, I couldn't consent and therefore it was rape, which is true. But you don't think that it's your partner. You don't think that it's your husband that would ever have the capacity to hurt you, to violate you in that way.

17:16But it has taken me years to understand the depths of the abuse that I was on the receiving end of, because it's such a covert crime. Perpetrated by the person you believed you were closest to. We worry about how we go home. You know, we check on our friends and family that they've got home safely. You know, we cover our drinks in pubs or clubs or what have you. But we don't think that behind that closed door, when the lights go out, we are at risk of being raped. We are at our most vulnerable when we are asleep. Dare I ask Zoe whether you know what happened to the photographs that he took during this abuse?

18:05He wouldn't say what he did with them. and he very proudly explained in court that he was taking arty shots of me he actually said that I should be grateful I should be grateful of the images that he took and I mean that just speaks to the depravity of somebody that can have two different personas what we did find on his computer was numerous different platforms numerous different profiles of him on online platforms and on pornographic sites. We found on the computers at work. But I also think that a lot of the time, you know, women like myself, we have to make our peace and reconcile that we know that our images are somewhere uploaded.

18:53And the chances are we'll never find them. You mentioned that since you've decided to speak publicly about what happened to you, that other women have got in touch with you, lots of other women. So is it fair for me to assume that this announcement today from the National Crime Agency about the scale of this doesn't surprise you? Oh, no. No, it doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, I speak to women daily. We have women reach out daily through the campaign. And this, yes, daily. It's a worldwide campaign. I mean, we've had 22 different countries of survivors and 55 different countries of engagement, 22 different countries.

19:38And that was the last time I checked women that have come forward that had knowingly experienced drug facilitated rape. So the campaign in itself is opening up in Canada, America and Mexico and Australia. But there's such a heavy precedence in Wales and in the UK. women are contacting either through the website or on my social media. And a lot of them have either, you know, recorded it with the police or they're mid-prosecution, mid-investigation. The women who contact you, how do they even discover? Some of the time they found an image, either on a computer or on a phone. It's sad to say that some of the women have woken up during the attack.

20:24They found medication. but a lot of the time I think that the women that I speak to they are either completely in denial or their body is having symptoms so when they they look back and they reflect and they say you know I have memory problems I was sleeping but I wasn't feeling very rested I was waking up sore and these are all the things that we go to the doctors about it gets brushed off of being hormonal, perimenopausal, we've got stress in our lives. The medical community really need to re-evaluate how they handle these sorts of symptoms. If they're not considering it, we're not considering it, these crimes are just running haywire.

21:09And made easier because of the prevalence, presumably of the technology. Absolutely. I mean, 20, 40 years ago, a man couldn't walk into a pub, call out to a room of 40 men and say, hey, guys, this is what my plan is tonight. Unfortunately, on these social media platforms and not even necessarily on the dark web because they're really hidden in plain sight. You know, men are finding avenues to talk about this and encourage this. and they're all able to congregate. And that is what is making this crime much more accessible than what it was. Zoe Watts speaking just a little earlier this evening. And if you've been affected by any of the issues in that story, there is help and support that can be found via the BBC Action Line website.

22:03Now, we turn to Venezuela because more than a week after two devastating earthquakes hit there and with the official death toll, well over 2 ,000 people. There was cheering and hugging among hundreds of rescuers earlier after a man was pulled alive from the ruins of a collapsed seven-storey building in Katia Lamar, a coastal area that's been almost entirely razed to the ground. Our international correspondent Yogi Telemai was there as the man, Hernan Gill, a 43-year-old security guard, was freed.

22:36There it is, I'm watching the moment as this man who's been under the rubble. It's now day nine, it's day nine and this man has been pulled out successfully. It's taken a mammoth, mammoth rescue effort. People are trying to stay quiet here. There's a lot of joy in the air, but they're trying to stay quiet here because this is a man who's been underground, who was in this cramped position for days and days, didn't know whether he was going to survive and now wow he has been pulled out

23:09so what I can see in front of me is that he's been brought out on a stretcher and now he is being put into an ambulance they're doing it very slowly very carefully there's somebody who's holding up they put him on a saline drip and there's somebody who's holding that up next to him.

23:37Yogi Telemai there at the scene. Well, I've been speaking to a member of the team that worked for days to pull the man out. Manny Sampang is from the Los Angeles County Fire Department, but he's currently part of an international team working in Venezuela. In good, good spirits. This has been a very challenging deployment, facing, you know, inclement weather, extremely difficult rescues and scenarios with the collapsed structures and just the amount of widespread devastation. And you're saying that as someone with great experience of disasters, I know. Can you give us a sense of how he was detected and just how painstaking a process it was to free him?

24:21He was detected by Costa Rica Cruz Roja during their recon missions. The place that he was located, he was a parking attendant security guard in a subterranean parking complex approximately two stories below grade. The structure above him was a residential apartment complex, which had collapsed directly above his location. The debris pile was basically on top of his location and being suspended by the debris itself. So it was a very slow, methodical process in order to remove the debris enough where we can access him without having any further collapse on top of us and on top of him. I mean, so painstaking.

25:04And that presumably is why it has taken you so long to get to him. It's a very complex rescue, definitely the most complex that our team has ever been involved in. It was a huge effort by all the international teams that are here in the operational area. It was a great success. And was anyone able to talk to him during the process to reassure him that it would take a long time? What sort of comms were there? So at about day three during the tunneling operation, we actually were able to make contact with them, the teams on scene. With that, we got an idea that he was uninjured. He was not pinned in any debris.

25:44He was basically entombed in a debris pile. At that point, the Chilean team were able to provide a feeding tube with him where they were able to give him water and electrolytes. Do you think he had some sort of protection then from the fact that he was in the booth that he was actually working in at the time? I mean, people can imagine it, I think, a sort of clear booth that you see in a parking garage. Did that protect him to a degree, do you think? To a degree, it may have, but in all honesty, it is likely a miracle for him to survive in the debris pile that he was in, as well as to be successfully extricated from it.

26:25You use the word miracle and there are thousands who have died. Do you and your teams think, hope that you might find others in the way that you found him? Absolutely. Even during the course of our teams being on this rescue for multiple operational periods, we still have and currently still do have recon teams out in the affected areas still searching for survivors. And this is a really international effort, isn't it? I mean, you're from LA, you're working with people from multiple different countries. How many people did it take in your team just to free this one man? We worked with multiple teams that were on scene including Chile and Florida Task Force 2.

27:11The total amount of personnel during the operation was over hundreds of personnel from all the different agencies from around the world. He was able to actually assist us in extricating him. He had enough strength and being uninjured was actually able to help pull himself out of the hole. Wow, even after all those days trapped. During the days that it took you and the team to do that precision work that you've described, did you have moments of anxiety? Did you think, crikey, what if we can't manage this? There was never a thought of not being able to manage it. We were going to go no matter how long it took.

27:55Our main concern was his survivability during that time because it was the most complex rescue that we've ever taken part in. It was a time factor. He was not pinned, not directly injured. There's other medical conditions that could begin becoming a problem, such as rhabdomyosis, a condition where the toxins start affecting renal functions, and you actually start having a back of toxic chemicals within your body, as well as what we call crush syndrome, where because of the inactivity and the pressure points that he's placing upon himself by no movement, tends to build up toxins in the body and especially in the extremities.