News outlets blocked from White House sue Trump

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1:30Hello, I'm Julian Warwicker. Thank you for downloading the BBC World Tonight podcast for Monday the 21st of September. An unprecedented standoff between the Trump White House and the mainstream media. That's emerged in the last 24 hours following the president's decision to ban three media organisations from the White House. There's now talk of legal action we'll hear from a leading CNN correspondent. In Germany, there's a lot being said about the growing popularity of the far-right alternative for Deutschland. But what about the hard left, Die Linke, who've just come top in a city-wide vote in Berlin?

2:05And we hear why a 17th-century masterpiece bought by two museums in Amsterdam has sparked some people to ask, did the Dutch invent golf? The relationship between politicians and the media is often regarded as a classic marriage of convenience. Both groups rely heavily on each other, but they also constantly push and pull for power and control over the public narrative. In the United States, over the last 24 hours, the pushing and pulling has taken that relationship to a quite unprecedented place. And here's an illustration of it. Today, for the first time ever, the crew assigned to film President Trump as he made his way to New York for the UN General Assembly wasn't there.

2:51And when the President cut the ribbon on a new White House helipad without the normal pool coverage, all that could be heard was static.

3:06Well, that happened because this morning five major US TV networks pulled out of White House pool duties, which sees media organisations share material with each other to save on costs and space when broadcasting presidential events to the American public. Now, that followed the President's decision on Friday when he banned CNN, the MS Now network and the news site Politico from the White House, accusing them of reporting fiction and lies. Very simple ban. I don't want them in my office. I don't want them here. I would say the ban would go as far as you can. So we are banning them. Yes, we are.

3:45And there may be others to follow. Well, CNN, Politico and MSNOW have now said they're suing the Trump administration. In a joint statement, they said they were pursuing legal action to, quote, defend the principle that the government does not decide what the press reports. The vice president, J.D. Vance, defended the White House decision. So he's not banning media outlets. What he's doing is saying, we're not going to give you special access to the White House if you engage in what is effectively propaganda. We have to remember those three outlets account about 92 % of the stories that they have on the president of the United States, on the administration are negative.

4:20That's not representative of the American people. It's not representative of public opinion. So if you're going to engage in what is effectively far left propaganda, why would a Republican White House give you special access? Well, President Trump has long been a critic of the mainstream media at many of his rallies. He's called the press fake news. He's called on supporters to boo and jeer at those in the press pen. and he's had a particular dislike for CNN. At this rally in 2017, the crowd chanted, CNN sucks. CNN sucks! CNN sucks! CNN sucks! CNN sucks! So, where does this latest ban leave journalists in America?

5:01Jim Acosta was CNN's chief White House correspondent during the first Trump administration. Jim Acosta, welcome to the programme. Thanks so much for having me. You were on the receiving end of some of the president's ire during that time. What do you make of what's happened now? Well, I think what's happening now is very healthy for the United States, for our democracy, for our system of having a free press. What you saw take place earlier today was members of my profession banding together and saying that, you know, if you don't allow these outlets onto the White House grounds and if you don't allow them into that protective bubble to cover the president, then you're going to be missing out on some things.

5:47And you're going to be perhaps doing some damage to your own messaging. And when you saw that clip, when you heard that clip just a short while ago where, you know, you couldn't hear anything, all you could hear was static, that was because CNN was supposed to be the representative of what we call the press pool today. And because CNN was banned, the other networks that make up the other parts of that press pool said, well, we're not going to fill that gap. Trump, you want this ban? You can have it. And I think that's a very healthy thing. I think you're already seeing these lawsuits being filed by MS Now, CNN and Politico.

6:23As it turns out, the judge now handling that case is the same judge who handled my case eight years ago and ruled in my favor. And so this is all shaping up pretty nicely. You know, I don't think we should expect Trump to go down without a fight. And he's going to continue to push this because it's a useful distraction for him right now. He has long wanted to make in the public's mind a very clear divide, hasn't he, between what he calls the legacy media, the people he sometimes says are telling fake news stories and the new way to keep the public informed. So to some extent, this this plays to that narrative for him, doesn't it?

7:03Yes. I mean, I think that, you know, this is, you know, one of his favorite boogeymen is to go after the press in the United States. There's no question about it. But listen, this is a president right now who is in serious political trouble. He is mired in the upper 20s or low 30s in public approval. That might sound pretty good over in Europe, but in the United States, that's extremely toxic. That is Richard Nixon, Donald Trump, January 6th territory. And he understands what he's up against. The midterms are shaping up to be a massive voter revolt in this country. And on the other side of that, he is staring down the barrel of a lot of accountability on the part of the Democrats in Congress.

7:45That means there are going to be investigations. That means there are going to be hearings and subpoenas. And he's trying desperately to avoid that scenario. And so going after the press might stir up parts of his base, might get them to turn out. We'll see. But in terms of telling the story of this White House, that still happens, doesn't it? I mean, as J.D. Vance said, it won't happen via the pool. There might be one or two gaps on the television, but there'll still be the print media. There'll still be photographs. There'll still be social media. So the story will still be told, won't it? To some extent, yes.

8:21And I would love to see other members of the press in Washington to get in on this. I think, you know, solidarity would do a lot of good here. And I've been calling on my colleagues at other news organizations, you know, to not go to the White House, to pull their teams from the White House until this ban stops. Trump got away with this when he banned the Associated Press back in early 2025 after he returned for refusing to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America, which is a totally ridiculous thing. And at that time, other members of the press did not join in solidarity with the Associated Press.

8:58And I think that that emboldened Trump to continue to go after the media in this fashion. So this time you've got to understand their consequences. Do you think this time it will be different that you might have others joining the big five? I do. And already you're starting to see, I think some of the major newspapers are saying they're not going to publish some of the photographs that are coming out of the pool today. And your viewers and listeners over there in Britain need to understand that some of the members of the pool now are made up of what I call Trump ringer outlets, MAGA ringer outlets.

9:30They are outlets that are essentially propaganda outlets for Donald Trump. And so we can't allow that kind of scenario to emerge in America. We can't be on the path to state media in this country like Turkey or Russia or China or North Korea. That's not America. And so, you know, that's why I'm hoping that members of this establishment, media establishment, will hold firm, hold their ground, because there's a lot at stake. Jim Acosta, thank you very much indeed for coming on. Well, as you heard a moment ago, world leaders will gather in New York tomorrow for the biggest event in the diplomatic calendar, the UN General Assembly.

10:07This year's gathering is expected to be dominated by the wars in Iran and Ukraine, as well as AI regulation. Despite a year marked by extreme heat in Europe and deadly floods in Nepal and Tibet, climate change could struggle to push its way up the agenda. Antonio Guterres' success as Secretary-General will also be chosen in the coming months as his term expires. And as it stands, seven candidates have thrown their hats into the ring. Well, let's consider some of that with Lord Malik Brown, who was Deputy Secretary-General of the UN back in 2006, and he served in the Gordon Brown government as Minister of State for Africa and the UN.

10:45Good evening to you. Good evening. Those major issues, as you see them, what would you put at the top of the list? Well, I think obviously the two big wars, Ukraine and Iran, are going to feature largely Iran, I think particularly, but with Ukraine trying to make sure it's not forgotten. I think there will be a lot of discussion of how to sort of renew the authority of the UN, which will fold into the debate about who's the best person to succeed, Guterres as Secretary General, and a sort of strange joker issue which has come up very very quickly but which is dominating discussion in new york at the moment in the events around the un proper is ai and you know the risk of some global disaster around it and the longer term prospects for employment around the world etc so you know three big issues with climate not to be forgotten as a force it's also new york climate week this week.

11:50So there's plenty to occupy people. On AI, I mean, at the moment that is being perceived as a race between those who've got a lot of money and power in America and those who've got a lot of money and power in China. Where realistically could the UN intervene on that? Well, I think it's a very good question because, you know, when I was at the top of the UN, And we had to deal similarly with the internet. And we were cold-shouldered by the tech companies of America's West Coast at that time. And there was no real appetite in Washington either to see UN regulation of this, you know, American-dominated new medium.

12:30And I think there'll be a lot of that this time around as well. And, you know, it is, as you say, dominated by two countries anyway, China and the US. I think they both have very different views on the future of AI. You know, the leaders of ChatGPT and Anthropic and others are warning of the potential disasters. In China, there's a much more complacent view that it really is enabling the use of big data to sort of deal with public health and education challenges, etc. So it's a much more social big AI, if you like. So there may be slightly more openness in China towards a UN role, but they've now gone and created their own Chinese global organization to regulate AI.

13:18So even there, I think probably a cold shoulder for the UN's efforts. You were a colleague of Andy Burnham in Gordon Brown's government. He is going to be there, of course. Does he have any chance of making a significant impact over the next few days? Well, I certainly don't think he's one of the sort of likely international stars of the occasion. He's got some stiff competition, even though big names like President Xi of China are likely to stay away, although Xi will be in Washington later in the week. And similarly, Putin is not coming. Some, you know, controversial figures like the Iranian president will be there and Zelensky will be there and Trump particularly, of course.

14:03So Andy Burnham, you know, has some A-list competition, let's put it that way. Lord Malik Brown, thank you very much for coming on the programme. Coming up a little bit later, did the Dutch invent golf? Being Dutch, I would like to say yes. So given the amount of images we know already from the 16th, 17th century of this game, at least it was really popular in the Netherlands and maybe even more popular than it was in Scotland.

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15:39Well, now to a striking statistic which has emerged from a detailed examination of the mental health of the nation. A quarter of 16 to 24-year-olds are now struggling with their mental health. That's according to Professor Peter Fonagy, who was asked by the government to oversee what he's described as probably the most comprehensive review of mental health issues this country has ever undertaken. It'll be published later this week. Well, speaking to the BBC's Catherine Burns, he outlined the mental health struggles that he's most worried about, which young people are facing, one of which is self-harm.

16:16I'm worried about anxiety, anxiety that's so powerful that people avoid things, avoid going to school, avoid participating in things that would help them. Depression that's so strong that they can't sleep at night, that they lose their appetite, that they feel that their life is not worth living. I am also massively concerned about self-harm. About two million young people self-harm. And that's too large a figure out of 12 million children in this country. Well, earlier I spoke to Nick. He's a parent of teenagers and both his son and daughter have self-harmed. I asked him first to tell me about what happened to his son and a warning, some of what he told me you might find disturbing.

17:07He was at school and he was being severely bullied. We'd contacted the school several times and nothing happened about it. and he started to self-harm. Initially, nobody was particularly aware and then my wife and I kept finding blood on the bedsheets and that sort of thing. So we asked him directly about it and why he was constantly wearing long-sleeved shirts and we learned that he was self-harming. It went on for probably a year or more. He had cuts along his arms, on his stomach and on his thighs. He's still scarred now. Thankfully, now he's not doing this anymore. But at the time, it was extremely upsetting, very stressful, having spent time going through his bedroom looking for anything that he could cut himself with.

18:01But it was the bullying which was at the root of this, was it, at that particular school? Yes, he was already diagnosed as autistic and the bullying was probably a consequence of that. He simply couldn't cope. He used to talk about hearing voices in his head. He used to have a voice in his head that he called Ed, who would tell him to do bad things to himself. and for a while he was unable to resist that. Again, thankfully it's gone now. As you say, thankfully it has. However, you have a daughter as well and she has also self-harmed, yeah? She has, yes. Not to the same extent as my son but she has cut along her arms.

18:55Again, it was down to anxiety. I believe some elements of depression as well. And this was just one of the ways in which she was coping. Again, thankfully, she's moved past it, but that's only in the last six months or so. Which is a relief, clearly, now. But when you look back to both what happened to your son and your daughter, and the enormous efforts you were doubtless making to get help, Where could you turn? What kind of help came your way? The first logical place to go seemed to be to the school, as that's where the problems seem to be centred. And neither of the schools have any particular mental health support in place.

19:46So we contacted the doctor, the GP, and they referred, first of all, to the lower level counselling service. and in the case of my son, after he had overdosed on two occasions, CAMHS got involved, the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service. So here we are now talking with, thankfully, both of your children having emerged from these horrible circumstances, but we talk at a time when we're talking of as many as one in six young people now reportedly self-harming. What do you think of that figure? I think there's a lot of hate speech in society. I think that they come up against young people who are hearing their parents talk about mental health as not being an issue and so on, and they feel marginalised.

20:44They feel that their own distress is being mocked in a way. I'm not even the least bit surprised that it's one in six. So I wouldn't have been surprised if you told me it was more than that. Well, Dr Joanna Anderson is a researcher at Cambridge University's psychiatry department, where she focuses on child and adolescent mental health. She's the co-lead, along with her Cambridge colleague, Dr Anne-Marie Burns, of the SORTS project, which helps schools respond to self-harm. First, I asked her about that one in six figure. Well, it's one of the figures that are reported in research. So if you look broadly at research that reporting the prevalence of self-harm, it's quite a wide range, actually.

21:28It's between 10 and 56 percent of young people say that they self-harm at some point in their life. But actually, that's what we just in research, we call it the tip of the iceberg, because this is just the self-harm numbers for the people who come through mental health or physical health services or participate in research. When we say self-harm, what do we mean? It depends very much on who you ask. We have a definition that has been proposed by NICE. This is any behavior such as ingesting things that you shouldn't be ingesting. Cutting is the most common one. So the ones that are what we usually think about as self-harm.

22:07But there are also invoices quite often burning themselves with cigarettes, punching the wall, headbanging. So it is a range of behaviors. And now if you also look at definitions that are adopted by some charities, they also recognise behaviour like binge drinking or risky sexual behaviour as an example of self-harm. So it very much depends. And cases are rising, are they? We can be sure of that. So the broad trend is, yes, they are rising. We can't really, you know, be sure, but generally speaking, on the rise. And what are schools trying to do and to say about this? Well, so from the work that we've been doing with schools, there was definitely a lot of interest in how to address self-harm.

22:58But we've also found that they don't feel equipped. They don't feel they have the knowledge, the confidence and the skills. They talk about mental health a lot. And it's a great thing that it becomes more prominent and more in the everyday conversations within the school. But self-harm is still, although it's very much linked to mental health, it's a bit sideline because lots of school staff, they get nervous about putting ideas in children's head. So we've described the seriousness of it, the prevalence of it. How best can this be tackled? We really need to talk about self-harm. It's not something that we can just shy away and think that it's not going to happen if we don't talk about it.

23:39So it's really important that the adults who work with young people, not just within the school setting, but also health services, have the awareness of the problem, but also are equipped to be able to address it. Because we know from research and also we know from the work that we've done with young people that if the first reaction to disclosure or discovery of self-harm is negative, so if a young person is being shamed or punished, they are very unlikely to come forward again and ask for help. So it's really important that those adults who work with them can address it with compassion and in a very constructive, helpful way.

24:17Dr Joanna Anderson, and if you've been affected by any of the issues raised, you can find a list of organisations offering help at bbc.co.uk slash action line. Now, Germany's ruling coalition will stay in power for the sake of the country's democratic future. That's how Chancellor Friedrich Mertz has responded to resounding defeats for his party in two state elections. In the north-eastern state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, the far-right Alternative for Germany party won the most votes, with Mr Mertz's centre-right Christian Democratic Unionist party failing even to reach the threshold to have any representation in the state parliament at all.

25:01In the capital, Berlin, the CDU came second to the hard-left Die Linke party. Well, much has been said about the rise of the far-right in Germany in recent months, but what of Die Linke? It needs allies before it can guarantee control of the mayor's office in Berlin. But if that happens, its candidate Elif Eralp would become the first hard-left leader of Berlin since German reunification in 1990, the city's first mayor of Turkish descent and its first woman of colour to hold the office. Well, Mrs Eralp says the New York mayor, Mr Mamdani's success, was an example for her. I am reluctant to compare myself to a man.

25:46But naturally, Mamdani's success was a big example for us. And we were happy about it because that election victory sent a very clear signal, not just to New York, but to the entire world, that a politics based on affordability, social justice, and a politics of bringing people together can win. And I think we managed to send out that same signal yesterday in Berlin too. Well, Tom Nuttall is the Berlin bureau chief for The Economist. Tom, good evening. Tell us a bit more about Mrs Eralp's politics. Yeah, it's an interesting development here in Berlin. We will see if Die Linke is able to assemble the coalition it would need to run the city.

26:32It would need to work with the Greens and the Social Democrats to do that. And there are two big stumbling blocks, really. One is that in the later stages of the campaign, there were a lot of allegations that the party was too indulgent of anti-Semitic figures, people who were inciting kind of anti-Israel hatred or in some cases anti-Jewish hatred. And some of these figures seem to have arrived at their election night party in Berlin. So that's one problem. A second, perhaps more pressing issue is that the centerpiece policy proposal of Die Linke in Berlin is the forced expropriation of property from corporate landlords.