Widdecombe murder 'raises questions about the security of those in public life'

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0:54and we speak to one recent high-profile government minister about security in and out of office. We hear from a Briton who survived a Spanish wildfire but fears that his wife did not. As the US reimposes a blockade of Iranian ports and the US President says that all cargo ships will have to pay a price for American security, Trump tolls the new Trump tariffs. We'll consider Sakhir Starmer's foreign policy legacy as he prepares to exit the world stage and we bring together the first pianist playing with one hand to pass a grade 8 exam and the one-handed concert pianist who inspired her. Hours after it was confirmed that counter-terrorism police were now leading the investigation into the killing of Anne Whittacombe at her home in Devon, MPs paid tribute in the Commons to a former colleague who has left a unique, uncompromising mark on British politics and British public life.

1:49This was the Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmood. She was forthright and fearless. As Lord Howard of Limb can attest, she had a memorable turn of phrase. And she was joyful. She thought seriously about ideas, but she did not take herself too seriously. And that allowed her to reach beyond this place and charm the country at large. She was one of those rare politicians who was bigger than politics. The Home Secretary didn't go into details about the investigation, but she did confirm that the suspect was not known to the government's anti-terrorism programme Prevent. And she did acknowledge that one party in particular has been affected by the killing of a former Conservative minister who became a spokeswoman for Reform UK.

2:34I recognise the particular concern that the Reform Party will feel today and, of course, Nigel Farage, the party's leader. I'm happy to offer a meeting for Mr Farage with the chair of RAVEC, the independent body within the Home Office that manages the security of those in public life. And I will also be looking at what security guidance can be provided to former members of Parliament, which I hope to work with you on, Mr Speaker, as well as those who serve a party outside of this place. After resigning his Clacton seat to fight a by-election there, Mr Farage was not in the Commons himself, but Reform UK's Robert Jenrick used the occasion to ask the Home Secretary this question on his behalf.

3:15Would she agree that it was unwise of the government to heavily reduce the security offered to the member for Clacton, given all that we know about his particular danger that is posed to him and to his family? would she agree that frankly it shouldn't have taken the murder of Anne for him to be offered a meeting with the committee and that many will conclude, perhaps unfairly but nonetheless that it is only because of the political views of the member for Clacton that he is placed in this position and will she use her power as Home Secretary to make sure that the security that he and his family needs is put in place immediately.

4:05Seema Kotecha is our senior UK correspondent. I asked her first about today's update on the Anne Widdicombe investigation. Today we heard that counter-terrorism police, they confirmed that they would be leading the investigation into her death. The quote from Lawrence Taylor, the head of the counter-terrorism unit, he said, we now have new information and evidence that means counter-terrorism policing is leading the investigation. We are pursuing multiple lines of inquiry to establish the motivation for this attack. So what does that mean? What does it mean that the counter-terrorism unit is now involved?

4:45Well, we know that they've got some new evidence because they said that in their statement. There is some new evidence that has perhaps led to a suspicion that this could have been an act of terror. So they are now investigating further. They may have found new evidence in the suspect's home in Rotherham in his car. We don't know. But that could have led to the counterterrorism unit investigating further. We also know that as part of their investigation, they may be looking to see whether there is an ideology or a political viewpoint here that played a part in this crime. So that's why they're involved.

5:22We also know that there will be more resources put into this because that unit's involved. We know that there'll be more cooperation on a national level. So it's a bigger investigation now. And like I said, it will take time, but there will be a lot more resources put into it. And Seema, there's been some criticism for Devon and Cornwall Police, who had previously said there was no evidence to suggest that there was a political motive for the crime. I think we need to keep an open mind here because we still don't know. Even though there may be some criticism as to what's been said in the previous days, that it didn't seem like there was a political motive and counter-terrorism police were not involved in those early stages, we still don't know the ins and outs.

6:02So I think us as an audience and us as journalists need to keep an open mind here until we find out more in the coming days. All of this has, of course, once again, after other horrific murders of sitting MPs in recent years, prompted questions about security for those in political, more broadly, though, in public life. We heard the UK Home Secretary in the House of Commons today paying tribute to Anne Whittacombe, but also raising concerns about the safety of those in public life. She mentioned the two MPs that have been killed in recent years in the UK. And I think this is something that many members of Parliament are currently thinking about.

6:45So I think this is something that is going to be debated even more so in the light of what's happened to Anne Whittacombe. Our senior UK correspondent Seema Kotecha. Well, let's pick up on that question of security guidance for sitting and indeed for former MPs in the light of Anne Whittacombe's killing. I'm joined by Steve Baker, Conservative MP for Wickham from 2010 to 2024. He was one of the most focal backbenchers during the Brexit years. He then served in government as Minister of State for Northern Ireland from 2022 until 2024. He is now Chairman of Fighting for a Free Future, a cross-party movement advocating for liberty and small government.

7:21Thanks for joining us, Steve. You're most welcome. Let's talk about your life now as a former MP. Yes. How concerned are you about your security now? Not very concerned now, quite honestly. See, death threats really stopped when I ceased to be an MP. People I can see recognise me on the street today and I can see still I'm hated often. But generally these days... And how does that manifest itself? People come, particularly around Whitehall, someone will walk around a corner and have a smile on their face, recognise me and the smile will disappear. But I don't feel under physical threat, no. But do you take precautions at home, for example?

7:56Yeah, we do. So my house still has the security measures which were installed when I was a member of parliament, although we've changed the alarm, but the alarm that was installed had panic buttons linked to the police. We had upgraded locks, always on floodlights at night, plus CCTV. And you, of course, as Northern Ireland minister, will have been subject to, you know... So in Northern Ireland, I was under close protection. I had some national security responsibilities, and the Secretary of State and I, and indeed the Lord's Minister, Lord Cain, were all under close protection in Northern Ireland because there was a very specific threat there.

8:32So I am very familiar with what it's like to be under threat and I'm very familiar with what it takes to defend against lethal threat to members of parliament. What then of potential new security guidance that could be offered to you, other former MPs, what sort of guidance would be appropriate, do you think? Well, at the moment, members of parliament receive guidance from the parliamentary authorities informed by the police and other agencies on how to look after themselves, kind of sensible precautions they can take in public spaces and indeed during their constituency surgeries where security is now available.

9:09I imagine for some members of parliament who didn't serve during the period when I did, they would benefit from receiving the same guidance. A lot of it is very common sense stuff about who they are, where they go.

9:22It's common sense stuff. I don't wish to get into too much of the detail but I don't think there's any danger of members of parliament or former members of parliament needing close protection let's put it that way some more than others though perhaps well I take when when Anne Whittacombe lays murdered is a time of heightened sensitivity to talk of these things and I do not doubt that Nigel Farage has had worse threats upon himself and his family than I ever did more frequently though I was threatened with my throat slit, acid attack and hanging. But I don't doubt it's much worse for Nigel. But I would just say gently, it's extremely important that a man who aspires soon to be our Prime Minister takes an evidence-based and proportionate approach to these extremely sensitive matters.

10:09There are plenty of people in our country who are ahead of the queue in relation to members of Parliament, in relation to the threat to them, people who work in our security and intelligence community, people who work in the armed forces and the police in Northern Ireland. The police are routinely armed in Northern Ireland and they can have those firearms at home for personal protection weapons. Other members of the public and people in official positions can have sidearms in Northern Ireland as personal protection weapons. People are under close protection in Northern Ireland. Are you concerned then of potentially going down that route?

10:45Yes. So the first thing is people, I think, should understand the sheer cost of defending against lethal force. Lethal force requires lethal force to defend. That means two police officers with, say, the Minister of State for Northern Ireland. It means an armoured car. It means additional firearms. It means additional officers when you go to a high risk place. That's a lot of people to keep you safe. It's a lot of people on shift. and it is completely implausible to have 24-hour armed police protection for every member of parliament and certainly every former member of parliament. 1 ,300 living former MPs.

11:20It's completely implausible. As I say, I had some national security responsibilities, including in relation to people's homes, and we have to be realistic about what the threat actually is. If people start being unrealistic about the threat and demanding the levels of protection, which are not consistent with the threat they actually face, then costs will quickly escalate out of all control. And let's not forget, most of us are more concerned with the protection of vulnerable women, for example, than we are with the protection of members of Parliament who are not normally under any particular threat.

11:53If we redirected police officers to protecting MPs, they won't be out there doing the things which the public quite rightly think are a higher priority because the likelihood of harm through crime to members of the public is much greater. Steve Baker, thank you very much for coming in and sharing your perspective. You're most welcome. And coming up later on in the programme. We guarded it for nothing. And now we're going to guard it and we're going to get paid for guarding it. A lot of money. Our Trump tolls the new Trump tariffs as he reinstalls his naval blockade on Iran. Donald Trump says he'll charge passing ships a 20 % toll.

12:29We'll have the latest on that. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100 ,000 on camera. And even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man$10 ,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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13:08But now, Malcolm Timbrell and his wife Annette Kilgore had found their house in the Almeria region of Spain when they appeared on the Channel 4 programme, A Place in the Sun. But now, Annette is among a group of people feared to have been killed when a wildfire swept through their village of Bédar. And Malcolm has been talking to our Europe correspondent, Nick Beak. We are now about three, three and a half kilometres down a single track, no, through road, on a slightly scorched chair outside my completely burnt out property. It's just unreal. It's an absolutely wonderful part of Spain, but we've always known there is this possibility.

13:57but this time we all got caught out and I think even the system for letting us know got caught out and we being nine friends and neighbours could not get out and we were all trapped we went as far as we could in our cars and just hoped we would be safe that wasn't the case and eight people and one cat lost their lives I don't know how but I survived and basically that's my story Do you have any recollections or is it a complete... Oh it's like a sci-fi film constantly going round in my head but it's not real it's something I went to the pictures to see it is not real and it has not sank in yet and it won't be until the police are in a position to confirm names of my friends and wife, even though we weren't married death The vivid memories of what happened that late afternoon are just so clear and I don't know how I survived.

15:32Basically, of six cars, four of them instantly combusted. and as each one started to go, I moved back one car and for some reason of fate, the last two cars, although very, very badly singed and paint bubbled and burnt, survived. And I survived inside the last one with a cat. And the police got me out. Where was your wife at this point? Was she in the same car as you? No, my wife and our other seven friends and neighbours, against me screaming at them not to, decided the only safe way was to walk out in front of the firewall. I've subsequently heard that that firewall was moving at 20 kilometres an hour plus.

16:26They had no chance. That was Malcolm Timbrell speaking to the BBC's Nick Beak. Well, MPs are currently voting in the Commons on the second reading of the Immigration and Asylum Bill. It is one of the Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood's most significant policies. There's been quite a lot of pushback from some Labour MPs, 80 of them signing a letter last week urging incoming Prime Minister Andy Burnham to reconsider the reforms. Let's speak to Kevin Schofield, political editor of HuffPost UK, co-host of Commons People's Podcast. Kevin, look, they are voting on it now. So let's just remind listeners what is in it and what the significance of it is.

17:07Yeah, hi, good evening. So it's the second reading they're voting on right now. So there are a range of measures in the bill which are effectively aimed at making it easier to deport illegal immigrants. It's also going to outline a new structure for asylum tribunals to make it more streamlined and speed up the process. Now, the most controversial reform actually isn't included in the bill because it doesn't require primary legislation, but that is to double the time it takes for immigrants to qualify for indefinite leave to remain from five years to ten years. But that hasn't actually been voted on right now.

17:50It's the bill itself. Now, as you say, there has been pushback from around about 80 or so Labour MPs who are not happy with the bill. They think it's far too draconian, too much of a crackdown by Shabana Mahmood. However, significantly, I think Andy Burnham, after some confusion over the weekend, will be voting for it this evening. I think what will be interesting is to see what other people around Andy Burnham, those supporting him MPs, whether they will vote for it or maybe abstain. and that's what I think we should be keeping an eye out for tonight. Yes, because the message from those MPs who wrote that and signed that open letter is that the party is losing progressive voters.

18:30That's their message to Andy Burnham, isn't it? Yes, exactly. And when we broke the story this morning that Andy Burnham would be voting for it, there was, I think, quite interesting, a lot of pushback, sort of a lot of criticism from Zach Polanski, the Green Party leader. He sees an opportunity here, I think, to hoover up those left wing, left of centre Labour supporters, Labour members, who are very unhappy at any tightening of immigration laws. And they think that if Andy Burnham is sending out a signal that he is going to go along with what Shabana Mahmoud is doing, then that is an opportunity for the Greens to maybe hoover up those votes from the Labour Party.

19:13So that is why it's so significant, I think. There is another sort of significant development today as regards Shabir Ahmed, the dual British Pakistani, who, of course, was jailed for his role as a ringleader in a grooming gang, in the grooming gang in Rochdale, isn't there? Yes. So this is also an amendment to the bill announced tonight by Shabana Mahmood. So it's a slight change in the law which would basically allow Shabir Ahmed to be deported. Now, as things stand at the moment, because he has been in the UK since before 1971, he's protected by a law which prevents the removal of a small group of Commonwealth citizens who arrived in the UK more than 50 years ago.

20:02So that means at the moment, as the law stands, he cannot be deported. He doesn't have British citizenship anymore. He still has Pakistani citizenship. so this would allow him to be deported to Pakistan. However, the fly in the ointment is that Pakistan don't want him. Perhaps understandably, they don't want him back so there's a bit of a diplomatic standoff right now. The government are saying that they may well restrict visas to Pakistani nationals wanting to come to the UK if Pakistan does not agree to take Shabbir Ahmed back. So as I say, there's a standoff So that's one to keep an eye on.

20:39Andy Burnham has said a week or two ago that, you know, this man should be deported. So I think it'll be a very interesting test of his political strength straight away as soon as he becomes PM. Great, Kevin. Many thanks for that. And just as we were talking, the votes have come in and it's passed quite comfortably, as you might expect. I'll bring you the details just before the end of the programme. And just a reminder, our main headlines tonight. Counter-terror police have taken the lead on the investigation into the killing of Anne Widdecombe. Speaking in Parliament, the Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmood, says that she's looking at new security guidance, including for former MPs.

21:17Andy Burnham has received the backing of 349 Labour MPs. That, in effect, makes him the next party leader and a prime minister. And tributes have been paid to the actor Sam Neill, who's died at the age of 78, the actor from New Zealand. and that country's former Prime Minister, Helen Clark, spoke to us earlier today. He's our best-known ever actor and much loved. For me, what was most significant was the Kiwi films that he did, starting with Sleeping Dogs in 1977, which at the time was the biggest grossing ever Kiwi film. He went on to do The Piano, which had some success internationally. So we look at that contribution to telling New Zealand stories, which is so important to us as a small country.

22:00Helen Clark there on Sam Neill. The ceasefire between the United States and Iran has been effectively over for days, but in the past few hours the White House has formalised those facts on the ground, in the air and indeed on the sea. President Trump has announced a new US military blockade of Iranian ports will come into effect tomorrow and he has suggested that a world which has grown used to Trump tariffs will now have to prepare for Trump tolls. he said the US would act as a guardian of the Strait of Hormuz in return for a levy worth 20 % of the cargo crossing that crucial waterway. We guarded the Strait for 50 years more and we never got paid for it.

22:40They made all the money and the United States was just, you know, not... They wouldn't... It's amazing. We never made... We guarded it for nothing. And now we're going to guard it and we're going to get paid for guarding it. A lot of money. President Trump speaking on Fox News earlier. Let's go live now to Washington and our correspondent, Gary O'Donohue. So, Gary, this news of the blockade being reimposed, but also of a letter, a formal letter to Congress that was actually sent last Friday saying the US is resuming military action. Yeah, that's something he has to do formally to announce after military action has taken place within 48 hours.

23:21And he did that because obviously the bombing recommenced on the 7th of July. We've also heard, Jamie, in the last few minutes that central commander said that they're undertaking another third night in a row of attacks on Iranian infrastructure and facilities. That's just been announced. And the reimposition of the embargo, the blockade, if you like, will take place from 4 p.m. local time here in Washington tomorrow, so 9 p.m. in the UK. But then this extraordinary thing about the 20 % tariff, no one has any idea how this would work. It would make it pretty much uneconomic for anyone to move stuff around with those kind of levies on them.

24:00And whether insurers would even contemplate moving boats around in those circumstances, I think, is pretty unlikely. But bear in mind, this is something that is contrary to international law. The International Maritime Organization has said so. But this is the president who said back in January, I don't need international law. You know, despite all that, his own secretary of state last month, and this shows you how policy is made here in Washington, his own secretary of state last month said no country is allowed to charge tolls or fees on an international waterway. That's existing international law.

24:36That's the way it is in waterways all over the world. So you can see that there's a consistency issue, if you like, here at the very top of the administration. Gary, thanks for that update. Gary O'Donoghue there in Washington. Well, this formal end of the Middle East ceasefire, well, it comes at the end of Sir Keir Starmer's time as Prime Minister because this time next week we will be marking Andy Burnham's first day in Downing Street. We can now say that without any of those mealy-mouthed caveats because the new MP for Makerfield has this evening gained the support of enough Labour MPs in the nominating process to make it mathematically impossible for anyone else to challenge him for the party leadership.

25:15So what kind of foreign policy legacy does Sakhir Starmer hand over to his successor? Joining us in the studio is the Labour Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Dame Emily Thornberry. Good evening. Thank you for coming in. Let's start with Iran, because it is something that late on in his time at Number 10, Sakhir Starmer broke with Donald Trump about, isn't it? Is that a blueprint for Andy Burnham going forward? Can I just roll you back even before that and just say that remember what it was like two years ago when Labour came into power? We were a laughingstock. We had had some fairly ridiculous foreign secretaries.

26:00people would openly laugh at Britain and they felt that we had been doing ourselves deliberate self-harm, that we had retired into ourselves, that we were just fighting one another and we had disappeared. And we are back on the international stage. So I kind of want to start with that and just mark actually a completely change of presence of Britain internationally. And we are very welcome on the international stage because generally we're seen as a force for good. So I just want to start with that. But not to not answer your question. I think that it's obviously Keir began with trying to be a Trump whisperer.