Session 105: Hilary Duff

27:36Hilary Duff:I think part of it was like there was a tiny, tiny portion that was like kind of fun and exciting. Of course. And then it got old really fast and then we were all like really sick of it. Well, because like at first it's like, ooh, hi, photo, hi. And then it's like, oh, no, it's actually you're waiting outside my house and you're following me everywhere. Yeah, I mean there's sometimes there's some paps around, but not like it used to be like hordes of them, you know, and like following me around all day long. They love to do it to a pregnant woman, which is like the worst possible time to want to be followed around.

28:10Hilary Duff:And, you know, just every single location, every single stop you're making throughout the day, they're there. And they're like driving crazy and they don't care. And they break all the rules and they have no respect for you. Got it. But it has changed a lot. Right. Or people don't care about me anymore. I don't know which one. People care. Do you hear how many people screamed when you came out as Sally with role model? Yes, I did. Like that was, I want to say that was the most talked about crazy Sally. It was. Do you agree? People were like no fucking chance. And it was. What was that like? That was so fun.

28:49Hilary Duff:Honestly, I had been listening to his music a lot. and um i was just cooking dinner for my kids honestly it was like a normal night at my house and i tend to not be in touch with my cell phone for like a few hours during that time that's like a that's peak craziness at my house is like 4 30 to like 7 30 and my husband calls the home phone we have a home phone because we live in the canyon yeah we have like shitty service oh you have like a landline we have a landline babe oh my god yeah i mean we also have wi-fi but no right just in case we got that right line wow so he called the landline yeah and he's like babe can you please pick up your phone everyone's trying to reach you you have to go be sally tomorrow and i was like what that's exciting and i was like i can't i have too much to do tomorrow and he was like no no no you're gonna go do it and i was like okay i'm gonna go do it and then i just like moved a bunch of shit around and dug my cowboy boots out of my closet and um was on a plane like the next morning at 8 a.m and it was fun it was very fun I also like I'm from Texas right so it was like felt full circle almost yeah and do you know I was the first ever Sally no yeah what yeah he didn't Tucker didn't tell you?

30:11Hilary Duff:No. I was the first ever Sally. Stop. Swear. In Houston. What? No, in Dallas. That's the one I should have been. I'm so sorry. In Dallas. In Dallas. Because I was in Houston the next night, which is why I thought that. But still, close by. You were the first Sally? Yeah. I want to see the footage. I'll send it to you. I want to compare our... Yours is much better. Because I didn't know what to do. But yeah, I was the first Sally. That's amazing. Are you guys friends? Yeah. He's been on the show. He's great. Cute. But he, there was like, there was like a, he's been on the show twice. And so there was like a rumor that the song was like written about me as like obviously a joke.

30:48And I love attention. So I'm like repost, obviously. Like I want to reiterate the rumor. And I was like, oh my God, you're in Dallas. I'm in Dallas. And he's like, do you want to come out and do something? And Sally was born.

31:02Hilary Duff:Stop. You created it. This movement. I know. I've never had such a mix of people like, wait, who is Sally? Or, holy fuck, you're going to be Sally? Yes, it's a huge, huge thing. That's crazy, though, about concert culture that has changed drastically is bringing out people as like a show. That never used to be a thing, right? Because like, what do you think like performing pre-social media versus during social media? Like, what is the difference to you? obviously there's like very obvious differences, but like to you, what is the difference? I mean, I think it's just a common theme in life now where like everything is filmed and like you're witnessing everything through your camera lens to get it on camera.

31:46Hilary Duff:So you can like, I guess, relive it again, or I don't know what, so you can brag about it or what? Like that's, you know what I mean? Like it's not just concerts, it's witnessing and like I'm watching my kid do a thing at school. And instead of just watching it, I'm like watching it through my screen. right um but i think that's that's the that's the thing is just to like have it i guess or to catch the moment like what's the we're all a lot less present one thing i'm grateful for is that i don't always have to go to the concert and i can see it on social media got it got it you know what i mean like the highlights yes do you want to talk about your single because by the time this comes out it'll be announced yeah yeah for sure mature yeah where was the inspiration behind that what was it like creating it.

32:31Hilary Duff:Yeah. With mature, it's, it's a really fun song. And I feel like it's my self talking to my younger self about an experience that we had and just reflecting on it and, um, being okay with it and having like, you know, a little like tongue in cheek moment with yourself and like accepting your past and like being good with where you landed. Right. Does that make sense? That makes complete sense. Yeah. It's like you can look back on a situation with more wisdom than you had in the moment. Yeah. And then like release the feelings that you have towards it. Do you feel like when you write a song you release everything you have about that situation?

33:25Jen?

33:26Hilary Duff:I don't think I release everything, but I think it feels good to talk about. Like, it's just like sitting with a friend, right? Like anytime someone's meeting you where you're at or has had a similar experience, like you feel instantly a little better about yours. Right. And that's what music does, right? Like you see yourself or feel yourself in music and that's why you keep listening to it because it sees you and you see it. Do you have a song in your discography that you recognize really resonates with your fans the most and like you feel very connected to them while performing that song? Oh, that's a really good question.

34:04Hilary Duff:I'm not sure I'm going to be able to like dig into my, my disco, my disco, disc. Yeah. Do it for me. Discography. Discography. But I might text you later and be like, it's this one. Yes. There's a song that you might be familiar with. It's called Wake Up. Might be familiar. Okay. It wasn't a single, so I never know. Wake Up wasn't a single? No, babe. That was just for me in the moment of my life and feeling like everywhere I went, I had eyes on me. And everyone was like talking about me. And whether it was good or bad, it didn't matter. It was just like performing that song was always like the most fun.

34:45Hilary Duff:I feel like I loved it. And the audience was like there with me. and I it's not like the most emotional one but it was always it always hit did you like touring I really loved touring I mean I couldn't wait to get on stage every night and um especially in the beginning I mean I think one of my first shows was in Santa Cruz and it was like at a skate park and it was like 400 kids packed in standing room only like crazy it was so much fun I had no idea what the fuck I was doing like zero percent I was like I don't I barely know how to sing but I'm having the time of my life right I had like had very little like training but I had these songs and I was like gonna go for it so it was just like really scrappy and I remember like just feeling like my eyes were wide open and I was just gonna like do the best I could were you nervous yeah hell yeah I was nervous of course but then quickly after that I was like selling out arenas right so it was this wild thing and of course I loved it I had the best time um and then I got a little older and like it became a lot like it became monotonous and there wasn't so many breaks like I would tour and then I would go film a movie and then I would go back to touring and then I would make a record and then I would go film a movie and then it was just like crazy so I think after a while I really needed a break and I was just like burnt out and I was like tired of having people on retainer and being responsible for like tons of people's lives to float you know right do you feel though when you were on tour because obviously when you were in LA or you were in New York the press would follow you around everywhere but do you feel like when you were on tour and you were going from state to state like it was almost like a break from that or not at all?

36:39Hilary Duff:I think I'm more excited to do it now with, cause I'm like who I am and I'm, I know what I like and what I, how I enjoy spending my time. And you know, I, I wasn't like a formed person yet then. So I just spent a ton of time in my hotel room and in the venue. And I just went from like bus to venue to hotel room to bus to venue to hotel. Like it wasn't, it was really fun and amazing and then it got really old yeah it's a lot i taught myself how to knit while you were on tour yeah i have a lot of grandma like qualities as well like i own chickens and i do sourdough and i taught myself how to like crochet and knit and you know there's there's a lot of like granny things happening i love to go to bed early what time do you like to go to bed i like to be in bed at like 9 15 you know what i also feel the same exact way about myself yeah and i put on my tv show i go right to bed yeah i i sometimes don't even put on the tv show do you have a show you're watching right now i'm watching a show with luca right now which is really fun because now i have a 13 year old son and so we can watch like more adult things together we're watching Wayward oh I've heard it's great do you like it?

37:57it's interesting yeah

37:57Hilary Duff:there's still a lot of questions and I'm almost at the end so I'm a little ready to like when are they going to wrap up the questions? yeah but Toni Collette is genius yeah speaking of Toni Collette have you seen Hereditary? no okay I miss a lot of things having four kids I miss a lot of things like I'm scared you're going to ask me what I'm listening to right now no no no I won't don't worry don't worry do you like horror movies at all or no? no Okay, then you can't watch Hereditary. I've told you I'm not old enough. Right, of course. I'm a baby. Right. But if you ever do find yourself watching Hereditary, ask your husband if he's ever seen it.

38:31He's not a horror person either.

38:33Hilary Duff:We love murder. Love mystery, love murder. Don't love like horror. Okay, that's Hereditary. Okay. And in a really twisted way, raise your voice walked so Hereditary could run. Wait, what are you saying right now? What? I'm telling you and like you're gonna and you if you watch hereditary you will understand what I am talking about. Okay. I was literally watching read your voice and I was like this is hereditary. Wait she goes to like a performing arts school and sings and what? No no no. There's just like certain things. I can't spoil hereditary for you. Okay okay okay. But you'll just be like I'm dead.

39:15Hilary Duff:Okay. Literally. Like do you know what I mean? like hereditary same shit i need to watch raise your voice again same shit i swear i was like oh my god hereditary i know whoever made hereditary watch raise your voice before a fan yes they were a big big raise your voice fan also just combined genres yes yes okay all right i i know it sounds crazy but like if you get it it is like it's so specific whatever i believe you thank you you talked about earlier really enjoying connecting with your fans do you feel like acting connecting with your fans via acting connecting with your fans via singing or connecting with your fans in other like business endeavors it's all different types of connection for you and like which one do you feel like the strongest with well I have to say music right it's you just you're so out there and like front facing on your with your words and your terms and your way and you know it's just it's exposure way differently than like going and filming someone else's script um and i think that's why i need i took such a big break i wasn't ready I wasn't like in a space to like be sharing like that, you know.

40:41Hilary Duff:But it is the best way to connect, I think. And it's the highest compliment, you know, when people are like, oh, your music this, this, or just showing excitement for like what's to come. It's, it really makes me feel good. And I can't wait to feel that again. It's been a really long time. I've missed everybody. And I'm always greeted with such like kindness, really and truly. Like when Younger got put on Netflix, it had this like whole resurgence and people were so excited to find that show. That show was always like the little engine that could. I felt like people that saw it loved it, but like not too many people knew about it.

41:21Hilary Duff:But it was like this weird, it went on for like seven years. It was just a very long running show, you know, and people loved it. But when it was finally on Netflix like a year ago or something and everybody thought it was like this new show, it was really fun just to have everyone like fall in love with it over again. And then, you know, the Lizzie of it all is like. It's such a high paying compliment, you know, and it's also something that travels with me in a way that I have to like send a little care to myself because, you know, one of the things that people constantly are like hey like oh my god you were my entire childhood you were my entire childhood and like it's such a compliment and then also I'm like here as a 38 year old woman and I'm like it's okay you're okay don't worry about it like you've done other things that they like but that one really stood out and that's fine right right now like you're like well what about my other stuff a little bit yeah sometimes it sometimes it feels like that like You're just like, oh man, am I ever going to snag him again?

42:26Hilary Duff:But I think that this time around with music, finally the pressure's off and I get to just fully be myself and I don't care. Because you're so happy in your life. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get sick after the rain scene in A Cinderella Story? No. Okay. But I'm always sick. If you can't tell. um i'm i think i have like a tough exterior shell and i'm like a little my weakened immune system is like eggshells but i also have four kids that i'm coming they're like disgusting little germs kids yeah they are so germy it's the craziest thing yeah i want to hear your take on that even though you don't have kids like is i does it go under like the dog food category right so for those that are unaware hillary was shocked when i said i can't have a dog because Because, no, I'm just shocked by the because.

43:21Hilary Duff:I had to fill that in. Because, you know those bags of fucking dog food? It's like a freezer bag of dog food that people keep in their fridge. I think it is so nasty. It bugs me out so much. And, like, I understand, like, that is what's best for the dog. And I know I can't give my dog a good life because I cannot have that anywhere near me. What about just kibble? Well, but so, but obviously there's a reason people aren't feeding their dogs kibble anymore. Right. You know, they're feeding them these like. Yeah. Human grade. Wet, like. It's so gross. You definitely couldn't ever have a cat. It like slops out of the bag in a way I've never seen.

44:02And every time I look at it, I'm like, fuck.

44:05Hilary Duff:Wait, I'm trying to think of like human food that we would eat that would like slop out of the bag. You don't mess with that either. Like what would slop? Like macaroni and cheese. Oh my God. But like when people put spaghetti in a plastic bag and bring it to a picnic, get out of my face. Who's doing that? Who's doing that? You've never seen someone do that? They like will be like, okay, I brought spaghetti and it's in like a plastic bag. You've never. I'm like, oh. You are defriended immediately. I agree. I agree. I hate picnic food. I hate it. I don't want to go on a picnic. First of all, spaghetti is not a picnic food.

44:36I also think so. I think so too. But there are people that have been like, I brought spaghetti.

44:41Hilary Duff:You're like, you brought the one thing you had in your refrigerator to bring an offering. I hate potlucks. I hate potlucks. I don't want a hodgepodge of what everybody thinks is good. Right. What is fun about that? Right. Let's pick a cuisine and stick to it. Okay. I understand your enthusiasm around this. Like, you don't want to do the tour around the world of food. No. I mean, I would if it was made by one person. Or like, you know what I mean? Like when everyone's like, I brought them. No, no, no. And I hate picnics. But you know what? This is a perfect segue into. Can't wait. Therapist. Yes.

45:20As you can tell, I get very angry about certain things. What are you therapist about today?

45:25Hilary Duff:I'm pretty therapist about my post nasal drip situation, my cough. But I was thinking about this and I was like, well, I'm pretty pissed about a lot of things. right now I'm really pissed about getting gray hairs I don't see a single it's happening it's happening it's crazy for the first time ever it's happening uh no like oh so when you're pregnant you go through like lots of hormonal changes really fast right so I started to notice like oh that's so weird but I was like just because I'm pregnant well now I haven't been pregnant for like 17, 18 months. And these little babies are popping up and it's crazy.

46:06Hilary Duff:And I'm just not ready. I just don't like feel ready. And it happens. I can't wait for you to call me one day and tell me it happens. So I actually found a gray this summer. And what did you do? Did you yank it out? I freaked the fuck out. I'm 25. I'm literally, I was, I was on vacation. I woke up and I was taking a selfie and I was like, wait, something looked really off, really shiny. And it was just, and I turned the camera and it was a gray hair. Yeah. It was the craziest thing. Did you pull it out? Of course. I ripped it out of my hair. It was like a few. A few. And I was like, it's because I'm so stressed out all the time.

46:40I know that's what it is. It must be what it is.

46:43Hilary Duff:It's like sabotaging. Like nothing about me feels ready for that at all. And like eventually when I feel like I'm like 45, like I think I'd be down. I'm cool with like having that and being like not, there's not one part of me that ever wants to be 25 again. like like I just I hope you're having the time of your life but like I did it I'm good yeah I know part of me wants to be a different age did you enjoy your 20s like could you imagine you having a baby a year ago no of course not um I think going back to like our previous conversations about like touring and having so much at a young age right a lot of excitement a lot of success a lot of all those shiny things um once that got old I was like so ready for something to be like tangible in mine like I really was ready to have a baby and I always knew I wanted to be a young mom so as quickly as that like came about and I felt ready for it I didn't know anyone that had babies none of my friends had kids I had to like one be me and then go like put myself out there in groups of people that I didn't know to like find motherhood friends and like learn about how to be a mom and exist in that like capacity.

47:59Hilary Duff:So and then I also got a divorce in my 20s. So like I had a lot of fun and I had a lot I felt like I was like trudging or floating like it was like a very weird combination of an experience for my 20s. But yes, I had fun. So you said you didn't know any other people that were moms. So like, and I feel like a lot of people don't know, like not only is having the kid hard and taking care of the kid, but then mentally how you are is hard as well. Like, did you struggle at all with like not being able to like find other people that were experiencing like having a kid and raising a kid? And what was that like for you?

48:32Hilary Duff:Yeah. Learning how to nurse a baby was like nuts. That's always like, I feel like, um, I feel like having a baby, there's always like a cross to bear. like and it's you're gonna like struggle either getting pregnant staying pregnant nursing or in like labor or something there's like gonna be one crazy thing that you didn't expect to happen for me it's always nursing it's just hard it doesn't come easy to me it's like this pressure of this thing that you're supposed to be really good at and it's it's supposed to just all happen and like you feed your baby and it's like no big deal and it's like that is not how it goes down it's like painful it's uncomfortable like I don't know it was just a it's every single time it was hard for me and it was like this thing I wanted to be really good at um but that was hard and then yeah finding your place in your friend group again once your your priorities like change to be your baby and you know everybody's still like going out or just doesn't have those like I mean there's not much more that's a bigger responsibility than taking care of a human life you know what I mean it was like this really big thing so um yeah but that was so long ago I honestly can't remember the like big moments that were that were a struggle but I know that it was there and it happened but I found my community and put myself out there and like figured that all out but um but then yeah it was like being single and being a mom and I was still in my 20s right um which would like gave me this sense of empowerment but also this sense of like like it's weird to be single and be a mom and be me you know you just had your fourth kid and do you when you think about your fourth pregnancy and your first pregnancy was there certain things like you were so anxious about your first pregnancy that you were like oh my god I can't believe I I was so anxious about that or I was so scared to do that or I was like was there is there stuff that you learned along the way throughout different pregnancies there's just an ease that comes around with each like subsequent one where you're just like you know this you know that this thing happens you know these feelings you know it's temporary I think that's the biggest thing for me is like I'm such a I'm a pretty impatient person So I want things like this, this, this, this, this.

51:04Hilary Duff:And you can't rush that process. You have no control over it. And so that's like the hard thing for me. But you just realize after you do it a few times, you're like, oh, yeah, this thing happens. My body is going to change. This feels like this. And, you know, you realize it's a blip in like your whole life's journey. It's really like a snapshot in time and it's quick and it's fleeting and there's like beauty in it and, you know, also like hardships and bittersweetness.

51:43Do you want to get into the tell me what's wrongs?

51:45Hilary Duff:Yeah. Okay. So do you know what? I'm so excited about the tell me what's wrongs. Really? Yeah. Wait, you know about the tell me what's wrongs? Yeah. Okay. I've been on three dates with this man from hinge and he has not complimented me once he was affectionate in bed but not when we were taught not when we are just talking to each other I want him to compliment me but I don't want to ask for it what should I do slash say this is so I really relate to this because I think that like I don't I'm not I don't know if it's like my love language but like I don't, you got to be able to like compliment in person and like face to face in like a normal setting, not just like in a, in a, in a bed setting.

52:28Hilary Duff:You know what I mean? Like I struggle with this as well. I feel like if you've had three dates, that's a lot of time with someone. Don't you? Yes. I completely agree. I really struggle with like looking someone in the eye and being like, you look so good. I like taking myself seriously. Like I get so uncomfortable. Yeah. It's like you have to be in the bedroom to like pull or like put. I think maybe he's just like awkward. But I think honestly, I think her saying something, like if somebody said that to me, I'd be like, okay, then I feel less awkward. I'm curious to know if she's complimenting him.

53:03Hilary Duff:You know what I mean? If she's complimenting him, it opens the door for him to be able to do the same. Okay, great point. Right? I don't take compliments. But also if she's like serious enough about him, And then she could just be like, hey, like this is something that I kind of need. But also it sucks to ask for what you need. You're like, can't you just read my mind? Don't you just know what I need? Right. I get in this thing with my husband too. I love to tell him he forgot to tell me he loves me. And he's like, what? You're crazy. And I'm like, I said it first today and yesterday and the day before.

53:32Hilary Duff:And he's like, you're absolutely nuts. Do you remember the first time you guys said I love you? Yes. It was at Pache. Have you ever been there? I have been to Pache the Salmon. Salmon's the best. The best. Yeah. And he said, who said it? You said it or he said it? He drew it on the table. Shut up. Yeah. And I looked down and I was like, I know. He's so cute. He's the best. He's the best. What? Yeah. He drew it on the table. He drew I love you in crayon? In crayon. Oh my God. I have it. I have it somewhere. I ripped it off the table and brought it with me. I was like, you're coming with me. And were you like, I love you too?

54:07Yes. Oh my God. I could cry.

54:09Hilary Duff:I very much loved him too. I was very excited. Did you get the salmon? Always. Yeah. But also don't sleep on the snapper. I've never had it. Yeah, you have to get the snapper because I get tired of the salmon. Okay. I was going to say I'm tired of the salmon. Go with the snapper, babe. Okay. Yeah. Should we go to Pache? Sure. We don't have to. I could tell you I love you for the first time with a crayon. Would you? Yeah. Okay, cool. I really want that. I would love to meet you at Pache. Don't play with me. But we're drinking some wine. I would happily drink some wine. You can get flushed. I won't judge you.

54:42Hilary Duff:I know. I mean, I'll be a tomato. But yes, I will happily do that. I have been feeling isolated from my life and friends for about a year now, and I want to be more social again. However, I'm so scared and mad that none of my friends checked in on me or even asked to hang out because I just haven't been a part of any social scene recently. I want new friends, but I'm scared to lose my old ones. What do I do? Oof. Right? Yeah. That's a lot. Well, I think that if they were your friends only for social settings, they weren't your friends. Totally. Which is something I learned in COVID. I think this goes back to my theme of, like, not wanting to be in my 20s again.

55:20Hilary Duff:Because social circles are just more complicated, you know? Friendships are, like, a little more fickle, it seems, when you're younger. And, like, going out and, like, I don't know, people's needs are, like, at the forefront of their... Like what they want to do is in the forefront, you know, so I don't know how old this person is. But yeah, if no one checked in on you when you were having a season of your life where you were like, I need to be a little more like insular, then that's not a good friend. It's a bad friend. Yeah. This is going to sound so dorky and mom like, but our nanny is the cutest.

56:00Hilary Duff:I'm obsessed with her and she's like 25 and she goes and she'll like join a pickleball group or like you just have to like find some things that you like to do. and go like join a group and it will expand your life instead of looking for all the same things in the same places. I couldn't agree more. My roommate is a runner and she joined Venice Run Club. Met so many people she loves through running. Right. It's just like. And then there's like a common thread. Right. Or like when I worked in music, I was very passionate about working there and I met so many people like coworkers that became very a huge part of my life and like that was my interest.

56:37My job was my interest and that obviously isn't the same for everyone. But like when I had that, because I was in school, I was like, I had this internship that became my full-time job. But when I had that outside interest, it became everything to me. And I met so many people and we met at my music job and like everything. Yeah. And I think just having that outside interest is crucial. I think it's just harder in college and I feel like she might be in college.

57:01Hilary Duff:Right. I know because your world is like right there in front of you and it's hard to like get out of that. It's so hard. Like, so like in college, what I felt was like everything, it's just like people who say college isn't like high school is, they're lying. It's the same shit. Like everything feels so important in the moment. And so that's why these people are like not speaking to you and they're going out all the time because in the moment that night out to them is the most important thing. Yeah. I think I was trying to say that before where it's like what you want is right in front of you at that time of your life.

57:32Hilary Duff:Right. Like just the, your one night's plans is everything to you. Right. And, and, and when you zoom out of that, it's so silly, but that's what like growing up is. Like I, I try to tell my son that when, when like he has a thing with a friend or whatever, I'm like, this feels like everything to you right now. I want you to know that I'm like honoring that feeling. Cause I understand, but it's just going to go away next week or like in two weeks, it's going to be like the next thing. And, but it just feels so big. Do you, are there moments that you like look back in your twenties and teens and you're like oh my god in that moment I thought this was the end and the worst thing to ever happen and now I'm like it doesn't even matter and I wish I could tell myself that like do you have those moments as well yeah oh my gosh of course I can't I mean if you really wanted to I could I could pinpoint a few but yeah for sure what's one I mean I think like a really silly one was I think just because I like grew up in the time of like scandal and like them wanting to like catch you doing something.

58:36Hilary Duff:Everybody wanted to catch me doing something bad. And I remember I was crossing the street with my friend Marco and I was in front of Kitson and it was like when jelly bags were cool, like see through jelly bags. And a paparazzi took a picture of me and was like, there's a condom in her bag. And I don't know if it was a condom or like a valet ticket. It was a square piece of paper in my bag. and all of a sudden I got a phone call from my mom and she was like, is there a condom in your bag? And blah, blah, blah. It was like this. And I just remember feeling like I'm in trouble. I'm caught. I did something bad.

59:08And I was just like a normal age. How old were you?

59:12Hilary Duff:I think I was like 17 or something. I'm like, I don't know. It was a condom. I think I'm being safe. You know what though? I actually, when I went, so there's the accounts like Getty Image, fan club there's like things that post like throwbacks like that apparently that was photoshopped okay so that's what i'm saying i can't recall i just remember getting the phone call from my mom and being like shit you know like i was a normal teenager like i did normal things and so i think that like of course i don't recall it all but i remember that being a big deal was was trusting people hard for you back in that day because like people would like go to the press and stuff because like that's when like tabloids were everything you know and like blogs were everything yeah was Like, did you have to learn who to trust at an early age?

1:00:00Hilary Duff:Yeah, there was a few people that I was like, oh, I think that person's not trustworthy. Right. I've always had a really good gauge of people. I think it's like a little talent that I have. Like, I have really good friends and it doesn't take me long to, like, figure someone out or just, like, figure out that someone's not for me, you know? So I didn't run in, like, a huge group of celebs and stuff. And I think that was also very good for my health back then. Right. I wasn't like spilling out the clubs with like other teen stars and stuff. Right. Did you ever like. Spill out the club? Sure did.

1:00:39Yeah. Was it fun? Like what was clubbing culture like back then? No phones? So fun.

1:00:45Hilary Duff:No phones. Yeah. Yeah. I remember like a lot of the times people would like run me out the back door because like police would be like coming in. Right. I have to be like underage. Right. But it was just fun. Like it was way, we used to spend three hours getting ready to go out. Stop. Can you imagine? No. And we wouldn't go out until like midnight. Huh. I know. We go out at 8 p.m. now. I know. Which is dreamy for me if I ever have to go out, but. Not for me. I was so responsible though. If I had like something to do the next day, I would still be up at like 7.30. Right. Like tidying my house. Right.

1:01:20Like a freak. Like in the day. so like there was no uber back then would you like call a cab or have a dd yes yes call a cab

1:01:28Hilary Duff:got it and so the cabs would like wait in the parking lots of like the like ladue or like yeah yeah area or whatever the club was and what like yeah and you'd have to just like get in the car and it would be like mobs of like paparazzi yeah and they would would they like find you back outside as well yeah honestly I might pay a lot of money to have one of those nights and just like try to relive the feeling was it like I feel like a movie star I mean you were a movie star but no I think I was like trying to be like just act normal just look normal right like even if you were don't let him catch you in a blink right right right and then would you was it like sometimes you would go out and then you would wake up the next day and all the tabloids like you'd walk past a tabloid and you would see yourself um not quite that quick turnaround but like on Perez Hilton or something yeah you could have like a dick drawn on your face or something you know by him what yeah babe he would draw dicks on people's faces yeah you don't know this do you guys know this you're all babies wait no I knew he like drew stuff but I didn't know it was that vulgar oh yeah and he just didn't he just ripped it and didn't care yeah damn dude did you let yourself get like offended by that or were you like this is fucking stupid i think it was a it depended on the day yeah right yeah like sometimes you were like loved and sometimes you weren't right i think that this time around i like a little bit bracing for that element because it's so nice to see the excitement you know but i just don't want to put too much weight on it because things change with like the tides so fast um and and everybody has a platform to make a a statement or a comment and um so it feels a little unhinged I agree and what I was going to ask you what I was so excited to talk to you about was like what do you think the difference is in celebrity culture back then versus now in terms of like oh I have a big one yeah now you can curate your entire life how you want people to see it you couldn't do that back then so now people have like a tiktok instagram and you can like curate exactly what you want people to see and know and back then people just assumed and it was like you did you didn't get to make up your own narrative like you do now and you can like also quickly respond to things yeah and just be like no yes no yeah like was there ever times where you were like wanting to respond to stuff and you just like couldn't because you didn't have the platform to do so.

1:04:07Like you didn't have like a blog to be like this isn't true or like.

1:04:11Hilary Duff:Yeah, but people like you still really can't. Yeah, I guess. Do that now. Like you can say it, but people are going to like assume what they want, right? Or like there's endless like TikTok people digging a journey of whatever, you know? Yeah, it's crazy. Is that a normal sentence? No, yes, it's exactly correct. that just like made my life by the way and ways like ladue oh my god like i could die bottle service at ladue stop dancing on tables was it just amazing the music was so fun that's what i used to remember oh my god like like like 50 cent and like nelly and like you know like it was like early 2000s so it was like like ashanti right and once you were in the club Was it kind of like this sacred space?

1:05:01Because there wasn't camera phones and there was nothing. So it was like, we are, we can do whatever we want.

1:05:06Hilary Duff:Yeah. And you'd be like, oh, that's that person's table. That's that person's table. And then like, yeah, it was, it was really funny. I think I would pay$2 million,$2 million flat for one night. Like that, like take me back in time. Have me be like. We're going to hide. Stop. Like what was it like at the OG location? Okay, I was just at dance class with my daughter. And I was talking to this old neighbor that I used to have. And she was talking to this friend of hers. And she's like, I have to tell you. I was like, you are so familiar to me. I can't get over it. Like, I know I know you from somewhere.

1:05:42Hilary Duff:She was like, I don't. And she was like, I was the head server at Hyde. And I was like, I'm dead on the floor. I was like, the original Hyde? And she was like, yes. And I was like, I can't. I can't with you. This is the best. And Hyde was like the. Hyde was the spot. And it was just like. It was this big. Yeah, that was about to say. It was very small, right? It was this big, yes. And what nights of the week were you like, Hyde night? I can't really remember, but never a weekend. Obsessed. You know that doesn't happen anymore. We don't do that anymore. I feel like it was Thursday. I'm sure it was.

1:06:19Life was more fun. Wow. How do I kindly tell my friend to shut the fuck up about her new boyfriend? I was hanging out with her and a few of my friends, and she was on FaceTime with him the whole time. She's just excited. I tried to tell her to get off, and she just ignored me. That's annoying. Her whole entire personality is her boyfriend now, and I don't know what to do. Do I drop her? No. Or tell her to drop her boyfriend? Literally neither. You can't ask her to make that choice. Just be like, you have boyfriend goggles on.

1:06:52Hilary Duff:and like open your eyes touch grass right touch grass go ground take your shoes off take but i know the reason i'm so empathetic is because i know that when when i get a boyfriend i will be that way you will don't you agree like it's going to consume me i know that i feel i feel for her yeah because that sucks and that's annoying and you like yeah i feel like you need to just let her let her be excited and get that like initial stuff out of the way that initial excitement you know what i mean yes she'll come back to you oh they always do but the more annoyed you act like you're gonna push her away yes yeah yeah you kind of just have to let your friend do it and just be there for you but also you can pull back from your friend a little bit if like if every time you guys are hanging out she's just on facetime with her boyfriend i'd be like i'm gonna go right i'm gonna leave see you later and show her what it's like without you a little and then she'll be like, why are you hanging up with me?

1:07:51And then it's like, well, you're always on the phone with your fucking boyfriend all the time. Yeah.

1:07:54Hilary Duff:Be like, I miss you. I think if you come back, come like with your heart facing forward and you're just like, I miss you. And like every time we hang out, I don't want to also be hanging out with your boyfriend on FaceTime. Of course. Let's have some one-on-one time. Please love you so much. Thank you. Have you ever had a friend that you're like, I hate your boyfriend so fucking much. And like, it was like, cause and you're like, how do I be a good friend to you and still hate your boyfriend? Yes. Yes. Oh yeah. One of my best friends, he actually came. Oh, just like hit me that like this is going to be in the world.

1:08:27Hilary Duff:Do you want to move on? No, no. He came to a holiday at our house and he had to leave. And as he like left, I like put my door on the back and I was like, no, absolutely not. No, it's over. It's done. Like, I hate the way he speaks to you. I hate the way he talks to you. So you are not you. around him like absolutely no and she was like she basically like was like yeah yeah yeah yeah no no no no yeah yeah yeah you're right you're right you're right she was like I'm done I'm done I'm done I was like whoa that was just the most insane crazy I understand it's not really happened to me before but I understand how people could get wrapped in something like super unhealthy um because of like an initial like spark that feels really good you know um but yeah that has happened and it's strange you handled it well though no no no no I am I'm like very direct are you the one in the friend group that's like are you like the mom of the friend group yes okay do you feel like you help take care of everyone else and like you're the one that they come to with problems um I think that a lot of us hold that space for each other like to where we could come with problems but I'm just very direct so maybe a little bit too much sometimes what's your star sign I'm a Libra how I need like balance right you're very peaceful you're not like you don't fight with people I don't like to fight with people but I don't like to like have like a rub with someone or or something and then like not work through it that drives me crazy it like infiltrates every aspect of my life I agree so I need to like handle my shit I fighting with like friends is like actually the worst feeling I think of all time yeah of all time yeah and the only thing that tops it is a friendship breakup I think it is I've never had like a real breakup so I wouldn't know but like I I just think they're the worst feelings on planet earth yeah oh a friendship breakup could like possibly be worse than a breakup breakup I mean I've never had a breakup breakup but I'm I think so too yeah do you suck suck and then like I suck too sometimes you know it's like a mixture of just that do you remember like at what age you like looked around your friend group and you were like okay I feel stable in my friend group and my friends and my love life and my social life do you remember like what when you felt that probably right around my 30th birthday like my my now husband came back into my life at that time and I remember looking around the table at my 30th birthday and we were like we had dated before but broken up and gotten back together and dated and broken up and gone back together and I remember looking around the table at my 30th birthday and being like like almost wanting to cry but I was having like just like a little private moment of like how grateful I was to see the faces that were there and like all that we had been through because a lot of like it was just a mixture of a you know really long standing deep relationships like 17 year friendships 20 year friendships um and then you know and also new faces and like new new friends so old and new whatever I'm I don't know what I'm trying to say it just felt really good and I was like I'm on a good path like sometimes you have to like friend cleanse it's okay to edit it's okay yeah yeah but you feel like a bad person when you're doing it because you're like I why am I sitting in the seat that I get to go but also like you feel like editing looks like sometimes it will take something like not showing up to like something that they will think is like very important like do you know what I mean like missing something to like be like the we're things are going to be different with us now like this is I don't want to show up for you in this sense and you don't show up for them in that sense and you feel like a piece of shit but it is what you need to do and you know it's what you need to do yeah so the big boy way to have that conversation is to like have the conversation before you just don't show up for them and be like yeah I had to do that once and i was like one you just have to eat you you have to like you have to just like own it and be like i can't show up for you in this capacity right now it feels overwhelming and blah blah blah like i need some space and you know i've had to do it a few times and it's like i just i always want my side of the street to be clean you know what i mean i don't want to make someone feel bad right by like my actions i'd rather have a conversation about it i like like really struggle with confrontation like that.

1:13:01I am like the least, there are certain people in my life that I can like say how I'm feeling too. There's like two or three people, her being one of them. And when I do say it, like we have these great conversations, but I really struggle in other senses. Getting there is like painful. It's painful, it's painful. It really is hard. I would consider my sister-in-law one of my best friends. My issue is that her and my best friend since high school hate each other. My sister-in-law seems to keep her issues to herself for the most part, but my friend can never hold back from telling me how she feels about her.

1:13:37I love them both so much, but it feels so immature. I am over it. What do I do?

1:13:42Hilary Duff:Whoa. I'm so invested in that. Whoa. Okay. Her sister-in-law, so married to her brother. Yes. Her sister-in-law married to her - It's one of her best friends, but her best friend and her sister-in-law hate each other. each other like from a while ago. Like have you ever seen that movie You Again? No. Basically it's about this girl is getting married and her sister-in-law, they've like hated each other since like they were little. And I don't remember how that movie ends or how they get through it but that's what I'm thinking about while I hear this question. I feel like the problem is with the friend.

1:14:18Right. Because the sister-in-law is like all good on my end. Yeah.

1:14:22Hilary Duff:She's making it easy for her which is nice and classy because they're in the same family together. Yeah. I feel like you got to talk to your friend and be like, I love you both. Like, I want you both in my life, but you're making this really hard for me. Can you find a way? And what if she's like, you don't get it, like, and throws it back. I wonder what it's about. Me too. Like, what? We need more info. If you're seeing this, DM me with more info. Like, I will catch it. We need to know. I need to know. Did they date the same person? Like. But how is her best friend asking her to choose between basically family now?

1:14:55See, that's crazy. Yeah. That to me is super selfish. And I agree with you in the sense that I do feel like it is on the friend. I feel it. It's just like a gut feeling I have where it's like that friend is being selfish. And maybe that, oh my God, it's like giving bridesmaids. Have you seen the movie Bridesmaids? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's what it's giving.

1:15:13Hilary Duff:Have I seen Bridesmaids? Like that's what it's giving. It's like she feels, maybe she feels like she's losing you. Yeah. And that's, and she's holding onto this drama as a way to hold onto you. You can't, you don't need to like be best friends with everyone in the group. Right. You just have to be able to be like. Civil. Civil. I was diagnosed with OCD at 25. Now that I'm getting the help, I need to manage my OCD. I find myself feeling resentful towards my parents for not helping me when I was younger. I actually feel the same way. Sorry. They always joked and would say things like, you're so OCD, but never took it seriously.

1:15:40I was wondering if this is something you experienced and was hoping for some advice based on your journey with OCD. I have really bad OCD, which is why they're asking that. Did you ever struggle with anything like that? or my like my were your parents like like oh like was therapy normal for you in your family or was it taboo taboo okay and did you ever feel resentful like this person feels or were you like that's

1:16:02Hilary Duff:just how they were you know because like of course I think every kid feels resentful of their parents I think you can have the best parents in the world and you feel resentful somehow some way yeah which is just like the the course you know what I mean um I think that you have to take this one but also I will just say it's it's not in defending the parents but like that's just the way it was back then nobody was having these conversations there weren't these words to like identify um anxiety and these like conditions and not like so much course of action to like deal with them and it wasn't normal to put your kids in therapy and it wasn't you know what I mean so I feel a little bad for the parents but also bad for the kids because they they they need support and they need honestly I feel like I sometimes do it with my daughter and I'm like oh my god banks like you're like she has she really struggles with her hair and needing her hair to be like perfect and I have to do it like three times a morning and maybe that's like a little form of OCD I'm not sure but I need to like figure out my conversation with her around it because I noticed that if we don't acknowledge it, it gets bigger and worse.

1:17:16So that's what happened with me. So the issue with my OCD was that my dad was very against medication. And you needed it. I desperately needed it. Like desperately, desperately needed it. And I don't have resentment towards that because to him, everyone being on Prozac wasn't normal growing up. That wasn't like everyone's not on Prozac. now it's very normal for everyone to be on like antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds because it is very helpful and it's still we'll still have conversations where he still thinks i shouldn't

1:17:47Hilary Duff:be on it well i think it's hard for that generation to think that there's like actual imbalances in their children's brains they don't think it's an imbalance they think it's a problem and they think it's like he would always be like well just stop just stop just stop which would obviously lead to me like retreating inwards with it and it getting worse and worse and worse and worse and i don't have resentment but yeah I do wish that I had been able to get on medication earlier what I like to remind myself when I feel moments like that is I try to like remind myself what I'm grateful for in my life right now and know that if I didn't have any of that I wouldn't be here talking to you right now yeah you know like that's what I remind myself it's just like little things like that also first of all that was a very sweet thing to say it's true but I also have to say that you and this generation being so forthcoming about their struggles and their life is giving such a comforting space for people that you know aren't on tv or aren't they're they're they're listening and they're like in the midst of trying to figure out their life and it's it's it's so simple to say but it's them not feeling alone you know what i mean and even just one generation ago it was really tough for people to talk about their problems and their imbalances or whatever it may be so um i'm really happy that you went through a similar similar struggle as him and you know can talk about it yeah of course i think it's like it's i feel like with every generation it gets more open so like it's more open than the last but the last was more open And then the one before that.

1:19:27And I think like in 10 years, we're going to look back at this generation and be like, it's crazy that we didn't talk about X, Y, and Z. So I think it's just about like learning and everyone's learning and everyone's, I think one thing the phones have been helpful for is like people find these spaces online where they're like, oh, this other person's feeling the same way as me. When I had OCD as a kid, the only thing I saw, the first thing I ever saw that I was like, oh my God, I have that. Do you remember Dr. Drew?

1:19:54Hilary Duff:Yeah. I select OCD rehab with Dr. Drew on VH1. Oh my God. Was the only thing I'd ever seen that I was like, Oh my God, that's what I have. And so that was the only way. So I give a lot of grace to like my parents and people because no one knew, no one knew like what that was. And now there's online communities and people on Tik TOK. I learned stuff about OCD on Tik TOK all the time. So I think as time goes on, it'll be better and better and better. But like, you know, but for your kids that are growing up now, like hopefully they're going to be so comfortable speaking about whatever they feel because the world around them is so comfortable speaking about it which is what I hope at least same yeah and it's so good that you're even like you when you're like doing the hair three times and you're like wait like you have that thought that used to never be a thought like when I used to have to like go back and like do things like four times or whatever like my dad would be like what the fuck are you doing yeah it's hard because your life is busy and you're as a parent you just have endless things to think about like you're you're you're constantly like thinking about how to get through the day and how to get everybody what they need and where they need to be and all the things you know what I mean and then this like bump in the road happens and it's like frustrating but it's got to be even more frustrating for her right that's really like amazing that you recognize that like amazing like really that's awesome before I let you go I do want to talk about your music video which is your first music video in like 10 years.

1:21:20Yeah. What, so can you tell us anything about that, the process behind it? What's it like?

1:21:28Hilary Duff:Oh my gosh. Um, okay. So I worked with an amazing video director. Her name's Lauren Dunn. Um, and we had a ton of fun. I mean, it was one of those crazy days where you feel like gorilla shooting where you're just like, Oh my God, there's not a single minute of the day to break right um but the concept is like quite simple and I think when you listen to the song you'll see the the journey of the two me's meeting I guess you know the the girl who kind of had an experience and then me now watching her and I don't want to say there's like satire involved it's really just like storytelling and like meeting meeting yourself where you where you landed and kind of like looking back on an experience and like tying a little bow around it being like okay and then there's like butterflies that are big themes in my life since metamorphosis and there's a little sweet butterfly moment in the video which I really love because it's just I feel like being where I am now it's really nice to like send love back to yourself you know that's gone through whatever it's taken you to get wherever you are right you know and um so I like all those little nods and those little like gifts that you can send back to yourself to be like hey like it was cool we got here that is really beautiful that is really beautiful Oh, thank you.

1:23:09Hilary Duff:I mean, by the way, it's filled with like amazing lighting and glam and dancing and sparkles and all the all the fun things like she did some really cool camera trickery that I don't understand. But, you know, the concept was was just that. And I really loved it. But I think the idea of sending love to your younger self is something my therapist tells me all the time and I never listen to her. But you saying that just now, like really resonated with me. We're all so busy. And I think we're all so used to like recovering quickly from anything that happens to us in our lives because life goes by so fast.

1:23:42Hilary Duff:So to just like nod to it and remember it and like give it a little bit of grace is important. And it could be with like the big things or the small things. I'm really excited to see it. Thank you. And I'm really excited for everyone to hear my share because it's fucking amazing. And I can't wait to like. I'm so happy you love it. Let's do it on streaming services. It's so good. I'm like playing the beat drop in my head right now. It's so good. That makes me so happy. Thank you so much. Of course. I'm glad you love it. I'm sending it to you today so you can just listen to it easily. Please, just listen to it.

1:24:12Also obsessed with your little Easter egg moment for your birthday post. Oh. I caught that. I caught that. I caught that.

1:24:20Hilary Duff:Justin, did you hear that? He caught that. I caught the Easter egg. So, Hillary, what did we learn today? We learned that I have a cough. We've learned that you have a cough. A tickle in my throat. What did you learn today? I learned on the surface level that pop star Hilary Duff is back. And like really, really, really back. And I'm really so excited for everyone to hear the new music and experience what I've been able to experience. And I also learned that talking to you and you being like, I don't remember some of this shit. I was 14 like and then you being like do you remember your stuff at 14 it's like oh just because what you were doing was different than me doesn't mean that like we both weren't kids and we both don't have like universal feelings of just like forgetting some shit that happened when we were 15.

1:25:20Hilary Duff:Yeah. Like just because your stuff is more immortalized in like like online and in video it doesn't make it any easier to remember and I think that's what I learned today. Oh that's a good one. Yeah. you said it nicely sometimes I can't quite always figure that out but you said it nice yeah that's that's what I was like oh yeah that makes sense that she doesn't remember what that was like she was 15 I don't remember my day-to-day of 15 at all okay I learned today that I love having conversations like this it's so nice to connect like I know we met before but we don't really know each other that well and you're just a gem and it's so like it's so nice to just have a conversation that takes like lots of trails and it's like human connection is what this whole experience is about and so um I loved it you had a good time yeah I mean when you went to go pee I looked at Louise and I said this has been a dream come true like this has been so fun oh my god really I'm I was like so excited to come on I mean I was so excited to have you So we have to do it again.

1:26:29Hilary Duff:I would love to. Anytime. You're the cutest. Love you. I'm going to write I love you at Pache. We're going to have a Pache date. We have to have a Pache. And I'll get the. Snapper. Snapper. Yep. Well, Hillary, thank you for coming on the show. Anytime. Do you want to give a little bye, pussies? Bye, pussies. Thanks for having me. Oh, my God. This is the finale? You're the season finale. I totally forgot. What? That is an honor. I'm dead. This is the season finale. The finale, pussies? Yes. This is it. What a season this has been. This has been crazy. Do you get a nice long break? I get like a few months off.

1:27:04Hilary Duff:I think I'm going to take a few months and do my work on other shit. I wish we could go to Ledoux. Don't. Seriously, I told you I'd pay$2 million. And I meant it. You were the most incredible season finale. Once we came to the conclusion that you were going to be the season finale, it was like a puzzle piece fit. and it just has been even more better than I thought it would be. And I thought it was going to be amazing. And I love you. So thank you. See you next season, pussies.

1:27:45Hilary Duff:I hate Mondays. Kings of Wine Cinnamon Swirl Bite? Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm. Hey, let's get back to work, please. But Taylor Hanson's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. Taylor Hanson? Nice! Try one. Mmm.

1:28:07King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.