Session 115: Dan Levy

28:51I put playlists together. Do you really? Oh yeah. Who were you listening to when you were writing the show? Peaches. And then asked her to score the show and she said yes. Thank you SeatGeek for sponsoring tonight's episode and what a perfect time because festival season has officially begun. I am making my way to the desert for Coachella yet again and it really reminds me of how special festival season is because you it there really is no festivals bring this sense of like so many different genres of music together and to be able to be there and to see that and to see multiple artists you love in one day I think is so so unique and special we have many many artists we love on the festival circuit we have Tate McRae headlining Lollapalooza we have Adela at Lollapalooza Sabrina at Coachella Charlie XCX is back on the festival circuit Olivia Dean Like there's so many people to see And more so There's so many people you might not know That you can fall in love with My favorite experience ever Like I think is one of the most Like highs you can feel Is falling in love with an artist As they're performing their live show That happened to me with Blue Tiger SeatGeek makes it easy to get tickets to these festivals Because you can use code THERAPUS for 10 % off Not only that If you click the link in the description It will download the app and automatically add the code THERAPUS for 10 % off.

30:19In addition, there are so many people going on tour. Adela and Demi Lovato are going on tour together. Ariana is going on tour. And Seagik makes it easy to make sure you're getting a good deal. Because when you go to get a ticket, it's rated on a scale from 1 to 10. 1 being not the best, 10 being the best. So you can tell if the money you are spending is worth the seat. You can get tickets today on the site or in the app. Use code THERAPUS for 10 % off. Thank you SeatGeek for sponsoring tonight's episode. And I hope everybody who wants to, or maybe hasn't been yet, has a beautiful festival season.

30:53And you can do that using SeatGeek. I couldn't be more excited for people to watch the show. Cause the score that her and Nora put together is so like singular and great and cool and nothing I could have ever thought about. It really makes the show For me it made the show So much cooler Her score I'm not a cool person I'm not fishing for compliments I think you're pretty cool But not like that I could never do What she does And I think part of the great thing about making things Is that you get access To people who are Cooler than you Right. And you bring these people together and you hope that the combination of all of these different perspectives will make something special.

31:47And in this case, it really did. Did you feel that way about Schitt's Creek? Because Schitt's Creek didn't really take off until season three, right? I don't think it really took off until we had finished season six. You think so? Yeah. Oh, wow. I remember writing and writing the final episode of Schitt's Creek just as I was sensing culture was like into it. It's very rare that that can happen these days. We had no interference. Because people don't, people cancel shows after one season now. Oh, Schitt's would have been canceled after three episodes. You think so? Yeah. I think it was so strange.

32:28Like the choices were really strange. It wasn't a fast paced show. it's a you have to kind of sit back and like get into it and also so much of the show is foundation laying so like that first season is ultimately setting up like who these people were in order for us to earn who they become and we're now so obsessed with like if it doesn't hit in the first 48 hours like right burn in hell right so you i felt so grateful to like be able to tell a story because part of it part of why i think people love schitt's creek is you earn the emotional turns yes yes never a point where we're asking an audience member to like care where we haven't earned that emotional turn right and you gotta lay the foundation for that yeah you can't expect an audience to cry for a character when they just met them that comes with time but time is the hardest thing to find now in entertainment how did you feel as though you got lucky enough to have those seasons before it took off well we were just lucky in the sense that we had a network in canada that really needed us and we had a teeny tiny teeny teeny tiny network in america that needed us what network was it in america it was called pop tv that's what shit's creak it was the former tv guide network i remember tv guide that's right It was like a, it was a standard definition, like, like grid of what television was on TV.

33:59It wasn't, by the time it flipped over to pop and we were on TV, we were in standard definition in most homes. When like standard definition, when people's TVs, we were in, yeah, your TV was HD. We were like, it was like watching an episode of Sex and the City. Right. We just found a spot that like, we found places that wanted us. and that's how we were able to stay on the air. I think if we were on an actual network, we would have been canceled immediately. It's so crazy to hear that because when I think of a show like that that takes time to grow, I also think of like Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad didn't take off until season three.

34:39Season three, season four. And it's like, if only we gave that same grace to all these new shows coming out. I think you have to believe in people. That to me is like... we've lost that relationship between creators and the space to like try things because it's such an immediate, like if it doesn't hit instantly, it's done. But think about how many, think about the potential of how many shows or, you know, I don't know, that just didn't get the chance because, God forbid their first season be still trying to figure out what it is. Like The Wilds. Have you ever seen The Wilds? No. It's with Sarah Pidgeon.

35:26Oh. Yes. And it's, I think it was only on for two seasons and that third season, because the first season was the girls were stranded on this island, the second season where these boys were stranded on this island and the third season was going to merge everyone and it got canceled before they could do it. I know. I think industry is the same way. I mean, talk about my favorite show. Season four of industry? I am not caught up yet. Is it amazing? What? No, I'm not caught up. Wait, are they on season five right now or four? No, four. Yeah, I'm not caught up. You haven't seen the last season of industry?

35:58I have not. I'm waiting to binge it. I don't want to bring shame into this room. No, well, it's here already. I don't want to bring it in. I don't want you to feel it. Is it that good? Because I watched seasons one through three and she's seen it twice. Last season? Obsessed with industry. Episode two of the last season? Oh, I've heard. I've heard. I've heard. I've heard. Is one of the most, it's masterful episodes of TV I think I've ever seen. You think Emmy time? If it's not Emmy time. Yeah. I will be out there with a sign boycotting. Justice for industry. The cat, also you're dealing with like a young cast of actors that are in there like just crushing.

36:36Yeah. It's fucking electric. It's also like It's the hottest TV On TV I know It's so hot I'm like wow I want to hook up with people And like do drugs and dance Kent Harrington are you out of your mind Doesn't he turn like slightly gay A little bit yeah they like Yeah they go there ish Not enough for me Yeah that's going to send me into psychosis It really I was alone when I watched it I couldn't be with anyone when I watched that episode. That's like when I watched He Did Rivalry and like I remember life pre-He Did Rivalry and life post. And my friend, my best friend, who's gay, called me and said, because it was, you know those two weeks in winter where it's like December, it's like between New Year's and Christmas and like it's just a very like.

37:28Yeah, yeah, no man's land. No man's land. He said, Jake, just like maybe I would, if you could watch He Did Rivalry after New Year's, I really think for you, like you would need that like just like you can't watch this and then be alone I see and I did he was more concerned about the aftermath of having watched for my mental health and Louise calls it the great crash out of 2026 it was everyone's great crash out I think it was I think I was put into genuine psychosis it's fun it's definitely fun to play with that I had a really good time with the like romance and shits we had some like you're about to find out.

38:07I know. I'm so excited. We had a great time. Yeah. Yeah. Would you, did you guys do a lot of improv in that show? No. In Schitt's Creek, you didn't do a lot of improv? We would improvise like maybe the way into a scene or the way out, but we would never, like the scenes were written. Do you, what was a scene that you remember that like Catherine like made you break, break? It was the very first episode that we were shooting. And I think at one point she's lost a tennis bracelet. Yes. And she's screaming around the motel room looking for a tennis bracelet. And again, we didn't know. When Annie and I walked into that room, we didn't know what she would do.

38:49So we walked into the room. And at one point she starts screaming. And she opens a drawer trying to look for this tennis bracelet. And I guess there had happened to be a light bulb from like a crew member that was switching a light bulb out. So it just like, it wasn't a planted prop. It was just something she found. And she pulled out this light bulb and started screaming at the light bulb. And if you go back and watch that episode, you can see that I'm doing like, what's that Bill Hader character on SNL where he's just like constantly? Which one? Stefan. Stefan. I'm Stefan-ing through that entire scene just because I couldn't.

39:27And then it got to a point where it's like, I think it's funny that characters find other characters in TV funny. Right. So I started just leaning into the fact that like, if I find this funny, then maybe David found this funny. And maybe the audience gets to like, have a bit of a, is it the actor or is it the character? But I think it's like, we laugh at our friends. so much of comedy you notice that the characters themselves don't think that the other person is what they're doing is funny so there was this added layer for all of us where I just started saying to people like if you think it's if you're gonna laugh, laugh your character will find it funny wow I think that's what really has helped make the show so unique because that actually is something I picked up on and that's why when you said you don't break I'm like because I feel like sometimes when I'm watching shit If you cheat.

40:21If you, yeah. Yeah. If breaking is part of your character, then you don't break. My favorite thing. I also just totally lied to your face when I said I don't break that often. I know you did. It was a lie. I know you did. And we're getting around to the fact that I just lied. And I am reconciling that. No, it's okay. My thing with lying is if you say you lied, then it's not a lie anymore. Well, I also think it's like sometimes you say something you believe were the case, and it's a lie. Oh, you're speaking like a true liar. Yeah. You're speaking like a true liar. Yeah. Well, I just lied. Yeah.

40:54And that's okay. And that's okay. And that's okay. I feel accepted. But that's why I told you I was on my first watch of shit. I called Louise and I said, Louise, I'm so anxious that I have not seen this show in full. And she's like, I think you should just tell him that you're on your first watch of it. So that's me doing this right now. A hundred percent. But I also don't. I know you don't care. Yeah. But they will. Will they? I don't know. Oh, yes. People ride for that show. Like, that show has got, like, when I bring up Schitt's Creek to people, they are like, that show has gotten me through the hardest times of my entire life.

41:29Like, I've never seen such passion around a show before. I think it was, I mean, it came to life in the pandemic. And it's about a family that's forced into living in small, close quarters with each other. And essentially into a kind of quarantine. so I think there was a combination of like the show dropping at a point when people themselves could see bits of their own relationships in it right so I do think that the circumstance as unfortunate as it was helped a layer of connection exist that might not have been there had the show been out when there wasn't yeah the global plague the pandemic it's so weird thinking about the pandemic because in parts I'm like it's it's weird to say I'm grateful for it uh-huh but in like a weird way I oh there were days where I was like this is heaven I mean it wasn't obviously right it was but as an introvert yeah who likes to spend a lot of time at home you're an introvert oh yeah wow I did not know that about you socially okay I had I've never in my life had real social anxiety and the other night I went out.

42:43What does that feel like? I felt like I was walking into a room. Oh, this is the other night when you did experience social anxiety? I was wondering what it feels like to not. You're just kind of like. Like if someone said I'm at a party. Yeah. And you didn't know anyone at this party. You wouldn't think twice about like when I arrive at this party, I need to instantly know where those people are so that I don't have to like, what if people look at me walking into this party and be like, who is this person? Why are they here? That's what goes on in my mind. So those thoughts exist for everyone, but for people without really intense social anxiety, I think the thought is more passing than concrete.

43:24So I have that thought, but then I just do it. Got it. As opposed to the other night, I was looking around and I was like, I need to get the fuck out of here. Anyway, it was a party. Right, and I walked into the room, and I was fine for most of the night, and then all of a sudden everyone was dancing, and I was looking at each group of people dancing. How many people were there? Set the scene. Like a hundred. And I couldn't be like, yeah, I couldn't be like, I don't, like which group do I dance with? And I was too conscious of my own being that I was like, you know what, this is the first time I'm really experiencing the social anxiety that people speak of.

44:04I have to go home. I also give you credit for having more than one group that you could dance with. No, but I couldn't. I don't think. I mean, I could have. I could have walked up and been like, hey, it's me. I feel like you, of all people, can do that. Really? Well, yes. Because I'm sure and unassuming. No, I think you're incredibly charming and people want to be around you. Wow, thank you so much. Well, you know that. I really don't sometimes. Okay, sometimes. I really, no, I really. Sometimes you do that. I really feel very annoying sometimes. Have you ever felt that way in your life? I feel annoying every single day.

44:40I really feel, and then it's hard when people online are like, no, you are annoying. Yeah, yeah, 100%. You'll read one comment. You'll see people saying the nicest things, and then one comment that speaks to a thought you've actually had, and you're like, that's it. That person with an anonymous bot. They got me. They got me. They know exactly who I am. It's that scene in Girls where Lena Dunham says everything you could have possibly, you could possibly say to me, I've said to myself already in the last 10 minutes. That's right. And that's, that's, but I, and I really felt that the other week.

45:12Like I was reading stuff and I was like, Ooh, I feel that way. I also think that the press cycle at this point is such a tornado that if something works, like for shits, we were, I mean, you know, you get into the kind of cycle of people wanting to talk to you because your show's a hit. And then the more you talk, the more you speak. And then the more you speak, the more you're aware of yourself speaking. and then by the end of it, I was so kind of embarrassed of the level of exposure that I had that it's almost permanently scarred my relationship to like myself in a way. A lot of the therapy that I'm doing is like, no, you're not embarrassing.

45:57Was there a moment that really stuck with you? No, it's not a moment, but you can see it happen. Like someone goes from like making something that's cool that catches on, then there's the like photo shoot cycle where suddenly it's like a million photo shoots and now we're whatever then you go through like a cycle of talking about your work and when you talk about your work and people pedestalize your work then you start to talk about the like how profound your work is which you've never thought about before then you start to talk about okay well like i guess i am doing something important and then when the dust settles of all of it you're like what a clown really for me at least yeah i i think i walked away from when the emmys happened and we we want i mean i said it in my emmy speech which breaks my heart what'd you say i actually said when i won my last emmy of the night can't believe i can't believe that's a sentence that was awesome i think i said i i apologized for just being because i was so aware that this was the moment when people were going to say okay they have too much wow and i was aware of it in real time and it's one of the big heartbreaks was the fact that culture or the way that we respond to people's success can sometimes be vicious after a certain point.

47:34It's like you see it with people. It's like we lift them up, we lift them up, we lift them up, we lift them up. And then at some point, there's a tipping point where the media decides, okay, they've had enough. Why do you think that is? Because you can't, the balloon can't stay afloat forever. Right. It's just how this works. And I think I remember in that moment feeling insecure. And then I heard a conversation that was happening publicly. There was a podcast that happened where someone was saying like that I didn't deserve all that I got. And I thought, again, it's that moment of like, oh, someone sees me.

48:16Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it took me a long time to realize I did deserve what I got. And also I was hearing this from another gay person and I thought more than anything else, if I win, you win. yeah if I get to make more things you get to do more things the more that culture sees us succeeding the more they want to give us things and it's very short-sighted because it's like this is a hit let's recreate it but I remember at the time thinking like damn okay I mean it's a it's a it's a take you're entitled to it are really hard on other but like man when was the last time like a gay person set a record at the Emmys right why is why are we not celebrating that and I'm not asking people to like blindly support my work but I always think when there's a real success that is part of the community like that is a win for all of us I also find that like the most uh like specific uh like hate hatred i get if i if i encounter it it's from like another gay guy yeah and i really i don't know what it is and it really it hurts more than anyone else saying anything to me and i don't know why i think it's because we're still under the it's like a lot of my like actress friends say that some of the, some of the worst moments in their lives where they felt the worst came from other women.

49:59And you look at a cultural state, like it, I think it's a cultural thing. I think we are indoctrinated to believe that there's only so many spaces for people who are not straight and white and male. Right. And so everyone else has kind of grown up with this sort of belief that like if I happen to make it, it's against the odds and I don't want to lose that. And you've taken the spot that could have been mine. I have to believe that it's a part of that, which is why I have a lot of empathy for it because I think, well, this is all part of the culture, being marginalized, is this belief that like, I'm going to start to feel insecure if someone like me succeeds and it's not me.

50:48did you bring any of that insight into creating big mistakes and your character and big mistakes no i no i i just for me it's always about like tell the story focus on the story it's the it's what worked for me on shits i never thought about the audience i never thought about other people's expectations i think the minute a writer's room starts to think about what the audience wants they lose the plot. Okay. Because I think a lot of times what the character wants and needs is not what the audience wants for the character. And it's hard to keep the noise out. How do you practice that? You just have to shut it out and care about the story you're telling.

51:36You know what I mean? You know more about the story you're telling than anyone else. You know why a character should do something or say something or make the decisions they make because it's a guttural, instinctual thing. Like, so for an audience who's like, gosh, I really hope they stay together, sometimes it doesn't benefit the character for them to stay together. It benefits the audience. But if you earn it, that choice, I mean, we made some decisions on shits that I think went against audience expectations, but I have to believe they were the right decisions. Right, it's like, I mean, this is so, so minor.

52:12but it's like when they were looking for David and I thought he was going to be in New York and he was on an Amish farm. No, he's too scared to be in New York. He would never have gone that far. But I would assume that they were going to New York. That's right. No. And he is gone. He did not have the savvy to get to New York, unfortunately. He didn't. Him and his like helmet laying Mohawk tootie could only get so far. Again, they got somewhere. They did get somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just like Thanks for saying that because I am working on a show for the first time. Okay. Oh, wait. You're working with Paul Burganti.

52:52I love Paul. Yes. Paul is the greatest. Of all time. I know. He's amazing. He's amazing. I met him on a commercial shoot. And like couldn't be nicer. Couldn't be more generous of spirit. Yes. And he. Such a cheerleader and a champion for like ideas that he loves. Yeah. Yeah. And he, the way we got to making the show was I was like basically very self-deprecating in like my life and my experience. He was like, this is so funny. This is a show. And now my worry is that all I can think about is what people are going to think of it. You can't. I know. And so you just saying that just now. Here's the key.

53:31You got to come out of the experience with closure. and the only way you can win is if you do if you make exactly what you want to make because at the end of the day if people don't like it fine but the biggest heartbreak is if you compromise your idea and dilute it to the point where it's accessible to people or you've made concessions for whoever's making it like you can't get that back you can't get the idea of like when you put your head on on your pillow at night the show has to be exactly what you want to make it like what you want want it to be otherwise you're gonna go to bed and think gosh if i had only held out if i had only fought more maybe it would have been different you gotta like fight for the things you believe in because that's that's it right have you ever had that experience of course you have it all the time I think that's part of making tv you're you know in in a creative process with people they have the things that they want to be worked in you have the things that you want to be worked in I also have a real like I don't like pandering and I think we're in this we're in a culture now where like nobody has faith in the audience everyone believes that we are like on four different screens and maybe we are i don't want to make tv for someone who's not watching my show right i want to make tv that makes me feel good and makes me laugh because there again there's closure yeah you've made the thing you want to make great if it works if it doesn't work that That is outside of the world of you making the show you want to make.

55:20So shut the doors and make sure that the show that you're making right now is exactly what you want to make. Because opinions aside, that's all you have at the end of the day. I know. I think for me, what I get scared about is because I came up on the internet. Yeah. And the, and, uh, like cancel culture is so like, like, like pariah based that like, I'm so scared that if someone hates what I do and that they hate something I've said or hate something I do that I will lose my whole job and I'll lose everything. and so that's why I constantly think about the audience is because I'm like number one I care if they like it because I care if people like me and number two is I'm scared if they don't like it and they don't like it enough that I'll get in trouble and I'll lose everything

56:19I appreciate your thought processes it is practically impossible that that would be the case you will never lose your job You're too good at your job to lose your job. It's about protecting your idea. People like what they don't know that they want. Think about anything that's broken in culture. You could not have predicted it. There's no algorithmic sort of math equation that could have led to any of the things we have come to really, really love. I've been there. I know exactly what you're talking about. You do? The threat of losing what you have by making some kind of mistake is an illusion.

57:03You think so? I think so. Because I think if you actually believed that, you would be pedestalizing your ego in a way that is unhealthy. Okay, so I'm a little stupid. So what do you mean by pedestalizing your ego? Meaning, I don't even know what that means. I was just like, no, I do. You would be prioritizing your, you would be putting your ego on a pedestal being like, I care about what people think of me. I care about this being a success. All of those things are fine, but they can't be what drives you through this show. Right. Again, everything that I have loved has been an anomaly, including my own show.

57:42Right. Nobody in America wanted to make Schitt's Creek. We took it out to every network, every streaming service. No, no, no, no. No, across the board. Even with Catherine attached? Oh, yeah. Wow. Nobody wanted to make it. So we made it on our own up in Canada with no intervention of people's, well, the first 10 seconds have to be really, really action-packed because you have to rope your audience in. We were free. And all we did was make a show we wanted to watch and wanted to be a part of. That's it. you can't control anything outside of that. And it worked. And now people are wanting to make, what's the next Schitt's Creek?

58:26Yeah. It's not about what the next Schitt's Creek is. It's about prioritizing people whose ideas are good and not being scared that they're not mainstream enough for an audience to understand. Let the audience catch up because the act of an audience playing catch up with something you're making only builds stronger ties to the thing that you're making. It's just like I feel like all goes back to like if you believe in something and you believe it's good and you don't seem bothered by other opinions. Yeah. It's like I always relate it to when you find someone annoying. You meet someone and you're like this person is so annoying and then you're with them for like a few days.

59:08And then the next day they're still annoying but they're still doing the thing that annoyed you but they haven't changed. Like they haven't changed based on the fact that you think they're annoying. So then you start to respect them and then you start to appreciate them. And like, that's how I feel it is with culture and people in culture. Yeah. You have to just know that you made the show you want to make. That's it. That's it. Well, thank you for that. And you should fight tooth and nail to make sure that you preserve whatever it is you want to make. I will. And there should be a line that you draw in terms of if someone says, well, what about, could we just, you have to know where the line is.

59:50Right. Because once you cross that line, it doesn't become your show anymore. You're making something else. For other, for not myself. Who knows? Yeah. I don't even think they know. Right. They're making television for an audience that nobody knows. I mean, no one could have seen Heated Rivalry coming. Right. And another Canada. Think about that pitch. Yeah. And now everyone's like Gabe Butts Kissing Right It's not about that Yeah It was the idea And the idea was not something That anyone wanted to make Outside of Canada Canada's always with it Well They Because it's a smaller market You can take risks You grew up in Canada right?

1:00:30Toronto Yeah Did you Do you miss it? I do miss it I was just back there It's wonderful I saw you wearing a Maple Leafs Maple Leafs jersey we were uh where how did we i was on we was filming something and they brought all the cast to a maple leafs game maple leaves game during the blizzard like do you remember the blizzard that just happened so it was like oh my god it was like honestly like looking back at it one of the best times of my life like we were like walking outside in this blizzard to this maple leafs game i felt like i was in heated rivalry and then like i was like talking to this guy i'm so male-centered so the fact that i was like in conversation with the guy while this was all happening.

1:01:06Oh, wow. Bliss. It was bliss. It was bliss. Bliss. And I love Canada. I love everyone so nice there. Tim Hortons. Tim Hortons. Cruelers. What? Crueler. What's that? It's a donut. Okay. It's like a twisted sort of how do you describe a crueler? It's like a twisted donut, but it has a different consistency. Are you Canadian too? Honorarily, I guess now. Canada is the best. The food's great. People are great. Yeah, Toronto's great. Toronto's great. It's where they went in the handmaid's tale when everyone was being held captive here. That is right. Yeah. A haven. Canada is a safe haven.

1:01:45This episode of Therapist is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot. Yeah. Well, as I said in Seek Geek, it is festival season, which means you might be traveling. It is also summer, so you are hopefully traveling if you are able to. And Booking.com makes traveling as easy as possible. It makes the basis of your trip, which is finding a place to stay and finding a place to sleep easy Especially if you are traveling with a group, everybody has different preferences Like some may want a pool, some may want walking distance, some may want a tub, some may want a shower And you can put all that in and booking.com will help you find the perfect place or hotel for your stay It also can help you like fully round out your trip if you need to rent a car Like whatever you need, booking.com has it as I've said a million and one times It has really helped my travels.

1:02:32I know me and my friends are planning summer trips right now, and we are using booking.com because we are all very particular in where we like to stay and what we need. And I've said this before, but when I was on tour, Matt would literally, like, we'd pull up to a city and Matt would book it on booking.com. He would have our preferences, find a hotel and book it. And it really just, like, takes away that anxiety from exploring a new place. So it, like, almost allows you to fully immerse yourself into where you're going because you don't need to worry about where you're staying because Booking.com has it covered.

1:03:02Find exactly what you're booking for at Booking.com. Booking dot. Yeah. Book today on the site or in the app. Dan, what are you therapist about today? I believe there should be one flight a day that does not have children on it.

1:03:23Yeah. And so like, what do you mean by that? please don't no I agree I agree I see you listen I love children I would just I think and this has I understand the plight of parents with young kids my sister has a three year old totally understand not being lacking in empathy for parents I think there should just be one we matter too flight a day yeah where if you are spending your hard earned money on an airline seat that you don't have a screaming baby beside you. I'm not saying take them off the airplanes. I'm simply saying, or even one a week. I'll take one a week. I preferred your one a day.

1:04:09Okay. Yeah. But like the concept of having, and this is, again, I feel like people are so, this is a real hot button issue. Oh, believe me, I know. So let me preface that, or I guess I've already said it. I love children. give me one flight. One flight. I mean, I was on a flight. Especially a long haul. If it's an overnight and you're spending the big money and all you want to do is sleep or you're on a red eye. And my thing was, I flew Saturday morning from New York to LA. And when I have a morning flight. I'm doing that tonight. I'm on a red eye to New York tonight. Well, I don't sleep before my morning flights.

1:04:51Like if I have... Of course, because you have to... The anxiety of getting up. Yes! yes the anxiety of getting out all night and i was like you know what well that's where we differ but i understand the anxiety i was shaking back and forth in my apartment like desperately trying to keep my eyes open because i was so tired but i knew that if i closed my eyes i wouldn't get up well there's also nothing more terrifying than missing a flight right or running through an airport right i wish it on nobody um hey so the airports right now are hell i get to jfk at 8 a.m What time's your flight? 8 a.m. People with kids like, please let me through.

1:05:28I'm like, oh my God. I feel like I'm in like, they're trying to get into the bunker. And it's the end of the world. It literally felt like the end of times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Hunger Games. It is Hunger Games. But I got on the flight. I'm finally, I'm like, I haven't slept. I had the Paul McCartney show that night. And I was like, I need to sleep this entire flight so I can fully experience and not be tired. I close my eyes, screaming, baby. That's it. the whole flight. And I said, why? I, at one point, had a child doing this on the chair. Well, that's just disrespectful from the parent.

1:06:01The parents were sitting right beside me. And I'm now looking at this kid, looking at the parents, looking back to the kid, looking back to the parents, and finally I just said, are you going to do something? I feel great about everyone having kids. I do not want them for myself. I don't know if I do. If I do, I do want to, a boy and a girl. Oh, wow. You're really committing to it. Yes, Theodore and Annabelle. We've predetermined the names. Theo for short and Anna, Anna. My friend's name growing up, one of my best friend's names was Anna, Annabelle, and we would call her Anna B. Oh, that's cute.

1:06:36And I thought it was so chic. Yeah. And Theodore just feels like a Kennedy name. Right. So you're raising royalty. That's what I hope to do. Yes. Okay. Understood. Okay. So I don't know if you've seen this show before, but we do a section called tell me what's wrongs where the pussies submit questions and we give them advice. Great. Are you down for that? Absolutely. My girlfriend is totally out of my league and it's finally starting to catch up to me. We've been dating for 15 months now and I think she's starting to notice that she could do a lot better looks wise. Help. I know it's like you just have to have confidence, blah, blah, blah.

1:07:11I don't want to hear that. I need active steps to prevent a breakup. Wow. Wow. Well, that was honest. That was honest. And from an outsider's perspective, if your partner is starting to realize that they're better looking than you and that is to them a form of currency, I hate to break it, but it's not the right fit. I don't want that from a partner. I don't want to be in a relationship where that's fear based. I think that whoever this person is, their lack of confidence is making them see things that are possibly not there. That's right. Is what I think. And then maybe those are like sometimes I've had to reconcile with the fact that I'm having these fears because those are my values.

1:07:59Real. You know what I mean? I'm like I've been like, well, this person is going to leave me because I'm not attractive enough. And then I'm like, but they've never said that or showed that to me. I'm thinking that because would I do that? Do you know what I mean? So what are your steps for this person then? Help. What kind of help? Just help. Like just general help? Just help. Okay. Like sit with what I just sat with. I would journal. Right. And really determine whether it's in your head or a real life thing. It's just a little awkward because this person can't go to their partner and be like, do you think I'm ugly?

1:08:40I would actually really start to know. But they can smell it off of you. They can smell insecurity. My best friend gave me the greatest piece of relationship advice that changed my whole life. And it's very simple. And he asked me one question. I was in one of many toxic relationships. And he said, would this person run to you? In what? Doesn't matter. Not walk. run. Would this person run to you? Because if they wouldn't, then they're not right. Right. I think that sums it right up. And it is the just, he's just not that into you theory. I think we all know what we're dealing with deep down. And you can fight and fight and fight and fight for somebody that you're trying to win.

1:09:26But if that's the dynamic, you've lost. Because then once you win, then you're unhappy with that. Find the person that will run to you. And it's hard to accept that because so often we date people who wouldn't and hope that we can change them. Yeah. You can't. It's tough. You know what I prescribe? Yeah. You know the song Old Money by Lana Del Rey? Yes. Where she says, I'll run to you. I'll run to you. I'll run. I prescribe that. Are you a Lana fan? Yeah. Oh, yeah. How excited are you for the new album? I'm excited for every new album. Again, a singular voice. She's not pandering to an audience.

1:10:08Ever. Never. She created a whole genre. And she has a, she's carved her own path. Yeah. And that's why we love her. I mean, I think some younger people today don't really realize the heat she took when Born to Die came out. Oh, yeah. It was like enemy number one. Like she was enemy number one. Yeah. It is a legacy that has made open windows and doors for so many people. Yeah. She doesn't care. Yeah, I prescribed Lana Del Rey. Okay, great. I took too many edibles with this really hot guy I'm trying to cuff and ended up greening out all over the inside of his car, like projectile vomiting. Sad face.

1:10:47How do I get out of the vomit zone with him? IDK what to do? He was expectedly very grossed out. And unfortunately, I don't know if there's a comeback from that. Here's what's tough for me. I have a real tough time with smells. Oh my God, me too. And the minute you assign a smell to a person, it's over. It's over. Whether that breath being bad, whether that be a fart. It's exactly it. It's over and I'm sorry and I could not agree with you more. I've struggled with that since I was a kid. So let's just hope that the partner has not assigned that smell to this person. Right. I think that's the only way that they can get through it.

1:11:25I actually have found a new scent recently. Do tell. It is called Another 13 from Le Labo. Okay. And then they also have this new one. When you were in Kyoto, did you get the Le Labo Kyoto exclusive? What? So Le Labo has a Kyoto, as they do also have a Tokyo exclusive scent. I have to go back to Japan. You have to go back to Japan. Me and my best friend Alex were like, I think we fucked up. I have a real great itinerary that I can lay out. Yeah, that would have... Le Labo's great. Yeah, so I've been using another 13. I've also been using, I'll send it to you, this new perfume. It's their newest scent.

1:12:08It's unbelievable. It starts with an L. Okay. It's called Levant. It's unbelievable. Someone brought me back the Tokyo Le Labo. It's called Gaiic. Gaiic? G-A-I-C. Oh, got it, got it, got it. not g-a-y dash i-c-k i thought it was i thought you said gay ink that would be that's tough that's a pr nightmare but no uh yeah i've been using molecule what's molecule molecule one is that no it's its own thing and it's like it doesn't smell like anything but it mixes with your pheromones and the like people who so it's it changes with everybody who wears it so it makes you fuckable god i hope so okay help is this an ick i was on my fourth date with this guy and it's been going really well we were at this bar and it was karaoke night and he had maybe one too many drinks he got up there to sing shallow trying to get me to duet with him i was so embarrassed and didn't go up so he just drunkenly sang both parts poorly very poorly do i push through it i actually think that that is endearing if i saw if i was on a date with the guy and he sang both parts privately like no one else was watching and I didn't see other people get embarrassed by it as well do you like to karaoke I tried the yeah yes and no I'm actually like the songs I want to karaoke I don't know well enough I did um it's all coming back to me now stunning and I realized mid-song that there's parts of it you didn't know that I was parts of it that's a that's a tough and there's video of it and it um it was really embarrassing but yes I do like karaoke I find people who are game for karaoke to be infinitely charming.

1:13:48Yes, I agree. It shows a complete ease in the relationship to self. You are open to humiliation and embarrassment. And that's hot. I find that incredibly attractive. That's hot. There are people who are like, no, I could never karaoke. Why? Yeah. Why? Let's get into it. Why do you think? Why? Because I think they are terrified of breaking the seal of an aesthetic or a look or a vibe. And then like, if that's a partner, do you, are you just an aesthetic to that? A partner? I could never. Yeah. What's your karaoke song? I love a duet, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, When You Believe. I love Mariah Carey.

1:14:33Or One Sweet Day. Is that the Boyz II Men song? That's right. And that's one of the longest running number ones of all time, right? Yeah, absolutely. I see, and people don't think I know my stuff. I know my stuff. well yeah I mean those are two good ones and then Purple Rain when I've had a lot to drink I think my karaoke song is anything Taylor Swift right like but I if we're belting here probably Ari something with Ari I'm a very big Ari girl Dangerous Woman is a great karaoke song you know what else is a good karaoke song that I've never done but I know it would be good Needy Right Just because That's also the thing about karaoke Is you leave the karaoke room And instantly think about the songs you should have sang We should go karaoke I would love nothing more Should we do that?

1:15:28Yeah Okay Where are you based? Here or New York? Here in New York now Me as well Okay so you just We'll go to a place We'll go to Koreatown in New York And do a private room Yep done Private room Never public Never public So are we the problem of people but we can't do karaoke public because we just like, I don't, public is for showboats. Right. Public are for the people. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like go to the Philippines. Right. If you want public karaoke, because you will hear voices you have never heard before. Unbelievable. I mean, voices. Have you ever heard Sharice? Yeah, of course.

1:16:05You know, the clip of Sharice being pulled on stage with Celine. Now, I think at one point, Charisse was pulled on stage by Celine Dion to finish a song. And did they do a great job? Obviously they did a great job. I mean, Pyramid stands the test of time. That's a karaoke song. Pyramid by Charisse. Featuring Ayaz, of course. Right. It stands the test of time. Of course it does. I know you low-key have beef with European Wax Center. I need to share. One time I was there getting everything done down there and they burned my asshole like so bad I had to go to the hospital and get it checked out. It was insane.

1:16:40So safe to say we have major beef with them and refuse to ever go back. So my beef with European, I'm so sorry that happened to you. My beef with European wax under actually isn't with their services. I actually find their waxers. Have you ever been? No. Okay. So I actually find their waxers to be quite lovely. My beef with them is that I think something very wrong is going on there. But the services are good. The waxers are lovely. Do you know if you are, do you know if you are nine minutes late, you're done? You're done. They cut you out of the. Nine. Why nine? there's two. That's kind of, I mean, that's a move.

1:17:14It's very strange. And honestly, in Los Angeles, everyone is 10 minutes late. I went to the wrong one. I went to the one in Westwood instead of the one in Santa Monica. And I called them and I said, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. You know, I didn't think European wax center was back to back to back. Did you have to pay? No, they, I, I said, Oh my God, I'm on the way. They said, okay, great. But if you're not, if you get here at one Oh nine, you're fucked. And I said, what? And then I got there and there was two. That speaks to me. Yeah. There was two people working the desk and there was one waxer, which I found very confusing.

1:17:42And then when you leave, they say, well, you know, you can't leave without the serums. And I said - The serums for the waxed parts? For ingrown hair. Right. But not only do they have a serum, they have wipes. They have body wash. For ingrown hairs? Yes. And it feels like I am just, it feels like lube labeled as ingrown hair. Serum. Yeah. I just would like to say. I now feel like I need to get a wax. You should go and get back to me. Just get like some random part wax and just, but just for the experience of experiencing a European wax center. Of vibing out whether it's. It is very, it's like the back rooms.

1:18:24Something's wrong. Maybe I need to go for research. You just do. Go for research. Okay. It's very strange there. So I see you. I once, a long time ago, used to relax my hair. What does that mean? You'd apply a chemical treatment. Do you have curly hair? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's straight right now. In old age, it straightened itself out. But at the time, I had very frizzy curly hair. And they burned all the way around my scalp. Well, did you sue? No, because my place of employment at the time had a working relationship with this salon, and they didn't want to ruffle feathers.

1:19:06So I just had burnt scalp for... Anyway, yeah. Life is so unfair sometimes. It's tough. My girlfriend forgot our anniversary. We've been together for three years, and she's always doing shit like this. Never my birthday, not yet at least, but stuff like our friends and my family's, et cetera. I'm genuinely really upset about it, but I'm trying to keep my cool. How do I react to this in a smart way? I'm far too angry to do anything right now. Ooh, this is hitting a deep, deep wound for me. Is it really? Yeah. Well, I wouldn't call it a wound, I guess. I have no problem if someone forgets my birthday.

1:19:38Nothing. No. No problem. When is your birthday? August 9th. You're a Leo and you're telling me that with a straight face? I'm a double Leo Scorpio rising. And you're telling me that you don't give a fuck when somebody forgets your birthday? No. Because I forget everyone's birthday. Okay, so you give yourself the same - I love my friends dearly. I am not a birthday person. I celebrate my birthday every 10 years. I'll throw a big party every 10 years. That's awesome. I'll give myself that kind of time in the sun every 10 years. Me turning 43. I get it. Embarrassing. Do you like your 40s? It's been conflicted.

1:20:22Did you like your 30s? Loved my 30s. That's what everybody says. The clarity that comes in your 30s is like someone lifts a weight off your shoulders and you can breathe again. Really? Yeah. What? Like you stop caring. And also you start to see your friendships for whether they are valuable or not. The minute I turned 30, I looked around and was like, this person's not making me feel good. And then every time I see them, there's something. I walk away feeling weird. Wow. People love their 30s. I didn't know in Sex and the City, they were all 30. Well, you want to talk about like feeling fucked up, watching like Bridget Jones's diary and she's much younger than me.

1:21:14Like that's a head fuck. Right. You, you, I, you feel like a dinosaur when you say like, I still feel like nothing has changed. I don't know what 43 is. I don't feel 43, but what is 43? I don't know. I don't know either. Now I guess it's different. Did you? It's the same brain as when I was in my 20s. Isn't that scary? Just like I care less. Did you go through a Saturn return? A Saturn return is ultimately just aging. But we have to believe. I will put everything into the stars. So you're not into astrology? But I'll believe any. Yeah, I'll believe whatever anyone tells me. Double Leo Scorpio rising as hell.

1:21:58That is crazy. Well, I'm a Scorpio double Gemini. Wow. Yeah, bad. Really bad. I say wow as if I really know. No, it's bad. But I do know that Gemini's tough. You Gemini's are tough. I think my roommate has a kink for public sex. Whenever she brings a guy home, she always leaves her bedroom door open or is extremely loud. Our walls are thin and we live in a tiny NYC apartment. What do I do? Leaving your door open while you're having sex when you have a roommate is fucking wild. I think you're right on the fact that she does have the kink and she wants you to hear. Absolutely. There's something going on there.

1:22:29It's deliberate for sure. Oh, I would be the, I was, I've lived on my own for a long time. And that's because of, I mean, I've never had that kind of situation, but I'm radically honest. You're good at confrontation? Yeah. I don't need to hear you moaning in your bed with your boyfriend. Shut the door. Yeah. And actually, while we're at it, do you have to be so loud? Right. I'm watching TV. Right. So just an honest conversation. It's begging for an honest conversation. Yeah. She wants you to have the conversation. She wants you to have the conversation. I'm trying to think if there's like a show.

1:23:06What a wild move. Isn't that crazy? It reminds me of like in Bridesmaids when Rebel Wilson's character is like always doing wacky shit at home. You know what I mean? and Kristen Wiig has to be like, what the fuck is going on? Unless she's just one of those people that like genuinely doesn't think about other people. It could be that. Well, then you might need to move out at the end of your lease. Unless you like it. Right.

1:23:35Maybe if you like it. Right. I've heard people having sex and I've been like, okay. Great. I've been in hotel rooms and I've been like, yeah, sounds like they're having fun. Yeah, they sound hot. It sounds hot and steamy and it sounds like they're having fun. Absolutely. And that's human. So now I actually almost take it back. It depends on who's having sex. Right. It depends on who it is. If your roommate's good looking and their partner's really, I mean, not that looks or matter, but in this case it kind of does. It does in this case. Let me fantasize in that case if you're going to leave your door open.

1:24:05Exactly. But yes, they do have a kink and you should probably say something. Every single dating app is literally hell on earth. I match with the most unhinged, horny, gross losers that all just want to come over and hook up with me and then never talk to me again. And even if there's a date involved, I know that's still the end game. What are better alternative ways to get myself out there? I wish I could say. I have no answer. Meet someone in person. But we're all so conditioned to not do that that I don't. You got to just have to have faith in a higher power that something will fall in your lap.

1:24:33I definitely went through phases where I would get so bored by the apps and so sort of disheartened that I would stop. And then I would go back. You kind of have to assume that it's one in a thousand. Yeah. And that's being generous. Yeah. You have to go in being like, one in a thousand will pique my interest. Also, like if you don't do it, you're not going to find the one, like you have to kiss a few frogs. 100%. To find your prince. You have to. It's just, it's just how life works. And you don't, and you know, if, yeah, I don't know. I would, yeah. I wish we could go back. I do think there is nothing more romantic.

1:25:16than meeting someone in real life and having a connection. It's beautiful. I just found out I'm narcoleptic at age 28. For years, my family and friends just thought I was lazy, uninterested, etc. Ooh, wow. I always felt driven and motivated, but I cannot stay awake during the day for the life of me. This is how I feel. I was talking to a doctor randomly, and he was like, yeah, dude, that's narcolepsy. Now I have all this medicine and stimulants I need to take, FML. So what do you need help with? Is that his question? Yeah, that's it. he doesn't, he's just telling us that he's narcoleptic. As someone who doesn't sleep that much, it sounds kind of great.

1:25:55Yeah. I, I, I've had such a horrible sleep schedule. Have you really? Like horrible. How many hours do you get a night? It depends. How many hours did you get last night? Six. Yeah, you feel well rested. You feel, I love that in 2026, six hours of sleep is like, you're winning. No, you are winning. Do you have an eight sleep? A what? Oh, Dan. It tracks your sleep, your snoring, your REM. I don't know if I can deal with that level of confrontation at this point. Yep, I get that. I understand. I've been falling asleep to different sounds. Because I think when you're traveling a lot, it's nice to have a consistent thing to listen to.

1:26:37And my therapist recommended this erotic sleep app. Shut up. the sub chapter in this sleep app is you falling asleep in different people's places. Will you send this to me? Yeah. So I've been falling asleep to like Marcel's cabin in the woods. And it's like someone typing at their computer and you're like lying down with like the rain falling outside. So you literally pretend like you have a boyfriend? A little bit. Send this my way. It's the joy of like, it's like when you're a kid, not to sort of conflate this light erotic app with like my own childhood, but it's like when you fall asleep knowing that your parents are like moving around.

1:27:28There's like a comfort of knowing that someone is awake. Yeah, I'm going to have you send this to me. Okay. And I'm going to try it tonight. But now as an adult, it has like a kind of erotic twist to it. And someone will like talk to you for the first two minutes. Like say what? Say like I'm trying to remember But it's like You can like choose Like a Scottish voice Who's gonna talk to you And say like You've had a really rough day Like take a sleep Take a nap Shut up I'm gonna like What is this app called? I'm gonna like paint And you'll hear them like painting What is this called? I can't remember I'll get you I'll get you As soon as this is done Okay Well that was the last Tell me what's wrong Great Well Dan What did we learn today?

1:28:09We learned so much Dan I really feel so grateful to have spoken to you Likewise What a spiritual conversation That was really beautiful I really took in what you had to say Good I learned And like as you make this show Yeah I'll give you my contact information Please I would be more than happy to be a sounding board If you ever need anybody Well that was some of the best advice I've gotten so far ever So I really really appreciate it Thank you so much for having me Thank you for being here What did you learn today? It's okay to call out a lie Yeah in front of someone you've just sort of spent time with.

1:28:42Yes, it is okay. And it's, you gotta call it. Yes. There was something in me that like had to proclaim I lied to you. Yes. And I felt better. And no one cares. I felt very comforted by this conversation in a variety of ways. Me too. I feel I'm leaving this feeling amazing. Bye pussies.

1:29:11you