Session 139: Gracie Abrams

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0:41Hi Pussies! Welcome back to Therapus and tonight we have on Gracie Abrams. Gracie Abrams has been someone that I've wanted on this show since it began and so I am so grateful and excited to have finally had her on. Her new album, Daughter from Hell, I just think is fantastic. And I'm so excited to see it live. She's going on the Look at My Life tour starting December 2nd, 2026, which I must see. She is such a wonderful person. She, in the episode, told me she'd bring me books and I was like, okay, sure. And then these books right here are from her. I got a day later. she is so wonderful getting to talk to her about this art that has kind of helped soundtrack my entire 20s was such a dream come true and she's so wonderful and so kind and so funny and I'm so excited for you guys to see it Gracie I love you go listen to Daughter from Hell and go get tickets to the Look at My Life tour now enjoy the episode pussies I love you you know you're the most requested guest of all time that has to be a lie it's not well i'm honored and thank you for having me in your home i'm so excited for you to be here so grateful to be here well everyone gracie abrams is here yay

2:06hi your new album is amazing thank you i got to listen to the whole thing you got the whole thing I got the whole thing. Great. Okay, that's so good. I don't know if I can say any of the track titles besides Hit the Wall. Well, you can to me. I don't know when this is coming out. When is this coming out? Oh, yeah. So I can? Yes. We can talk about everything. Look at my life. My favorite. Thank you. She gets name checked in it. She still hasn't even heard it. You've never heard it? Not yet. It's unbelievable. I was dancing in my bathroom to it today. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I really did not like that song.

2:38Why? Till recently. because I wrote it when I was feeling the way that the song. It's not, yeah. Not feeling good. Not feeling good. And it was just, I have like recency bias, I think, with writing. And I sometimes after writing something, I have to put it away for a while and not acknowledge that it exists. And Aaron was like, I think this song is really great. Like maybe revisit. I was like, I cannot possibly. and it took like six months till I could hear it again and not want to kind of like rip my eyeballs out you know what I mean you kind of like have that like I can't think you know but I'm very glad that it um resurfaced and what other songs did you feel that way about that you ended up putting out oh like in previous yeah like a whole bunch for sure this album to me last well you know there's a few there are a few that I've expressed like my kind of grievances towards that that that at shows um my audience will like it's basically like uh the equivalent of someone like standing outside your house with like a pitchfork and like torches being like play it yeah I'm like okay totally um so like mess it up was one that I really you know but I think now I have a like a fondness for everything that came before because like whatever woo woo led me here I'm like yeah it's okay do you believe in woo woo stuff totally yeah totally do you I have to what are you having a hard time getting on board with that you like wish the attachment theories okay I tried.

4:20I don't even understand it. Okay. Where do you fall like anxious? Anxious. Anxious. What are you? I think I have been anxious in the past. I feel by some miracle securely attached. No way. Today. I know. And that's the end of the episode. Yeah, I think, but I, but I, but I, but like watch it be different tomorrow. Right. Right, right. I just don't, there's like three, I can't even get into it because Casey Musgraves tried to explain it to me and I looked at her. What a privilege. Yeah, no, and it was, and I looked at her and I said, I don't get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Well, listen, she probably knows like way more than all of us.

5:06She knows like the world. Yeah, that is like her well of wisdom that cannot be touched. Yeah. Who do you listen to? oh well um i've been listening to a lot of like i have a a playlist that i made recently around this um movie that i'm doing that is congrats thank you very much but i've been listening to lots of old music lots of like peggy lee if you know who that is i'll send you the playlist yes it's um Or like also like the Benny Goodman trio. I've been listening to a lot of kind of like more instrumental things these days. Separately though, like more current Grace Ives. Do you love her yet?

5:53Yes, love Grace Ives. Okay. Yes. I think she's so cool. She's so cool. I think she's so cool. So I'm a big fan of her stuff and I thought her new album was exciting. What's in like heavy rotation for you right now? The new Kim Petra song. Okay, I haven't listened to it yet. And it is like, wait, is it 11-11? oh i missed it sorry my clock is off every time i 11 11 i have to make a wish that's the woo i believe in i always also are um someone on our our tour crew like four years ago he said every time that he sees three numbers in succession he has to tap three times and now anytime i'm on my phone and i see three numbers i'm like i'm i'm i've not you know when you just get it in your It's like a total hyper fixation.

6:41I'm always like OCD. Like OCD. I'm like, yeah, like that thing I have. Yeah. Just that little thing. Like that little thing about me. Did you record the whole new album at Long Pond? No, we did a bunch of it there. We did a bunch of it at Electric Lady and we did a bunch of it in London. What is Long Pond actually like? It's the greatest. It seems it. It's the greatest. It is. It really is. It's in an undisclosed location, but it is like, it's the best. It feels like the physical manifestation of Aaron's spirit. So I don't know if you've met him ever before. I have not. Okay. I really wish he was with us right now.

7:27Is he just the best? He's the greatest. Someone asked us recently, like, how would you describe your guys' relationship when we were sat next to each other? And it is like a sibling energy, which is hysterical, but it is, it is that vibe. So to, to be in his environment when our, you know, friendship runs that deep and our like collaborative relationship is as kind of like robust as it is and has informed like, you know, my adult life thus far so significantly to be in a literal house that like he, you know curated and he creates and it feels like again woo woo but like the air is like a different texture or something there's like you're in like a like a different universe yeah completely yeah um so it's a real privilege to be there and it is like a second home at this point it's so lucky did he do the whole new album yeah we produced it together and and uh it was us and we've had like there are a bunch of brilliant players that played across it.

8:35His twin brother, Bryce, who they're like identical. And it's like amazing because the fact that there's another Aaron, but they're, um, both there's radically different people and also like equally brilliant artists. So he's this like insane, um, like composer and he had this Macedonian orchestra play strings across the whole album and that was amazing and um justin vernon of boniver i love boniver yeah he's he's across this album he sings on a bunch of things and plays on a bunch of does and hit the wall because there's anyway i'll point it out to you later but yeah he sings in a bunch of different places um and then bella blasco is our engineer and she mixed a bunch of the songs as well and she's like a total beast like incredible um at her job and so it was us it was us congrats thanks what is this album number three number three wow do you have a lucky number seven oh that's my birthday what september oh virgo yeah what are you scorpio oh i'm a scorpio rising really i see i i got that That is stuff I believe in.

9:54Tell me more about your chart. I'm, are you like super in it? I'm not super in it. So I kind of always, I feel like a phony when I ask, but I'm invested enough that I think I have kind of like surface level knowledge and it'll, you know, tear me to shreds. Like I probably will get it all wrong, but. I'm a Scorpio sun, Gemini rising, Gemini moon. Oh. Yeah. Scary. It's bad. It's like a bad chart. Wow. No, no, no. It's pretty bad. No, no, no. Yes. No. no you know you you you lead how do you feel the gemini manifests like i'm able to talk to people oh you are yeah like you are so able to talk to people do you ever like shock yourself at your social butterfly like abilities gone completely wow what do you mean like back in the day back in like my college days like i used to be able to my social battery like wow i would be able to wake up and start talking to people.

10:51Yeah. And I think it's cause I started smoking weed a lot and I'm just like, I understand. Yeah. I'm just like, Oh, I want to be in my bed. Hi. Totally. Do you think it is like that coupled with being famous? Thank you. You're welcome. Do you think it might be that combo? I think so. Like weed is complicated inherently when you even if it's not super you know top of mind as you go through the world if like even in your subconscious you're like someone here might know me but I might not know them and then there's this weird kind of like fishbowl like perception feeling yeah that like whether or not you're high on anything I think they're kind of I will sometimes be like white knuckling like that you know what I mean yeah like a wave of it but anyway with weed for me it's like I think I became so comfortable in my own head uh-huh like I'm able to smoke and like make myself laugh and then so it's like well I don't need to go outside and meet people because I can just like be high I check all boxes yeah like I can just like sit and smoke and like go to bed absolutely Do you smoke?

12:06I don't right now very much at all, to be completely honest. I definitely had a period, especially kind of like during COVID, there was a stretch where, as you know, like. Of course. As you've just described. Yes, COVID's when I got into it. You're like, cool, my whole world is right here. But I don't think ultimately it, I struggle because I'm like sometimes it's so the best thing and then I feel like I want to be available to the people in my life but also like opportunity and like spontaneity in a way that like. We doesn't allow. It will like keep me like as if I'm like handcuffed to this chair.

12:54Tethered to the couch, yeah. And I think I prefer the freedom of feeling like mobile and able more than I prefer the handcuffed to my chair feeling these days. Well, I was like the biggest stoner. And then Tucker came on the show and was like, I stopped smoking. I'm like done. And I was like, well. Did he get you to stop? Kind of. I was like, your career is kind of going well. Maybe I should check this out. Yeah, totally. Have you felt, what have you felt? I'm two days clean. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, okay, okay. Honestly, congratulations. That's awesome. Thank you. I was like, I'm not going to smoke this weekend.

13:34Yeah. But it's like, I think it's hard generally with things that we, that, you're such a high functioning, like high achieving person. Anxious person. Are you 26? Yes. Okay, me too. When's your birthday, did you just say? October 27th. Oh, we're literally, okay. We're like sisters. We're sisters. We're sisters. Paternity. I love a Virgo more than life itself. Really? They keep me in check in ways that like my old roommate was a Virgo. Okay. And no longer your roommate. No, because. Because you're a Broadway star. I'm not in college anymore. Stop it. That's so amazing. It's so crazy. How was that?

14:13The best experience of my entire life. Tell me everything. Eight shows a week? It was eight shows a week. And you were with Jenny Slate? I was with Jenny Slate, my queen. She is like, she, I met her only recently, uh, last year. And I, I, it's like, you know, when you're, you're really uncomfortable somewhere and you meet someone that makes you person and you're like, everything is actually great. Yes. Jenny. She does make you feel that way. So tell me everything top to bottom. She, okay. Sorry, please drink your water as well. Broadway. I was in. Tell me when you got like. Japan with Alice. You're so chic.

14:48I felt very chic. I was in Japan with Alice, our mutual friend. yes shout out shout out alice the best the best the best greatest funniest greatest person of all time i haven't seen her in 12 trillion and a half years yes she was supposed to come i tried to be i tried to convince her to come this weekend and she said she said i'm staying in la i i understand that yeah but um i was in japan with alice and i got a call because ashley park who's incredible had to drop out of the play for like some commitment and they were like well it's this play and it's with nicholas braun ray romano and jenny slate and i fell to the floor and i said yes yeah and they said that's the dream and i said well they said you have to move to new york next week so now there's so much more to like i can't believe is this our first time meeting yeah isn't that crazy and we learned we're sisters no but first of all we're dm warriors I'm like did you finish industry did you start it yeah we are DM I think we DM every single day we are so up in it that I'm like I messaged her on Instagram yesterday and as I hit send she started typing as I hit send she started typing and also it's like it has to be some weird cosmic thing I have no notification you know what I mean I'm like I am like I don't I can't and so we're just synced up we're synced that's what Allison and I say we sync up yeah wait so thoughts on industry i love that show so much yeah i love that show so much i am so moved by the acting in it and i think it's like perfectly chaotic and dark and the first two seasons i like i it feels like you know when you keep returning to something that doesn't necessarily make you feel good yeah always like i felt that with skins when i could do skins it was really it got me bad yeah i tried when i was in like seventh grade and i said nope yeah i don't like i think i was 12 yeah and i was like this is my fucking shit yes and it made me feel terrible and maybe like really sad and like probably go down about anyway and with industry i was like i can't stay away but it made me depressed after every episode and there was something kind of amazing about like feeding that um which is like my own thing to explore is where it kicks the fuck off season three is where it kicks off wait this was just four this was just four yeah and then they're entering their last season yeah which is apparently like i'm scared i just talked to marisa and oh and they were like we read the first two or three scripts and it's balls to the wall Of course it is.

17:34I saw a clip of them doing some press junket around, like, introducing the next season, and she was like, I want to just go so hard. It's going to be so, who's your favorite? I just love their relationship. I think they're, like, I love a complicated female friendship in any universe, and I think the two of them are, like, opposite sides of a coin. and I think that they're, it feels like they're sisters and then sometimes you're like, are you guys gonna like, fuck? Yeah, like what? Don't you want her to be on the couch right now? She was the other day. Oh, she was on the couch? She came and she - Me eating the Michael's on?

18:18Yeah. I'm like, where? Where was she? She did, her and my holo did back to back. Shut the fuck up. I felt like the official - I should leave. Oh my God, what? I felt like the official industry podcast, but it was amazing. Oh my God, I'm really jealous. It was awesome. She's so, they're both so awesome. I met my house at a party recently and it was like one of the, so embarrassing. It was like, do you ever, I haven't had this in such an acute kind of way in so long where I was like, I think I botched that interaction. Oh, always. But I like, in a way that I was like thinking about it later. Do you know, I was so caught off guard.

18:57I turned around and she was there and it was I think because I was just so deep in the industry universe I was like felt like I was tripping and I think I said something so embarrassing and anyway sorry I didn't mean to be weird I feel like all we do is talk about television yeah it is it is what else is oh I tried to get you to watch homeland yeah and I think you lasted like a season less to be honest. But not because I think that show is like I know it's as amazing as you and the rest of the world says it is. I think I haven't started it in the right place yet. Well so the thing about Homeland is seasons one and two are great.

19:37Our television podcast. This is just about TV. Season three is horrendous. Okay. Season four is amazing. Season five and six are atrocious. Oh wow. And then season seven is brilliant. Okay so you're kind of like fighting it always. You're, it's like, you're like, just like you're powering through. How old were you when you watched the show? Homeland? I was, what year did it come out? 2010? I was 10? This is where I think maybe like, I think I maybe missed the. I was at my grandparents' apartment and I was laying on the couch and there was, I'm like the biggest sucker for like a promo or like a.

20:19What do you mean? Like a, like if there's like a trailer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's like and like there was a trailer for Homeland and I was like ooh what's this and then I saw a late night appearance and everyone was and it was like Jimmy Kimmel or something and they were like everyone's talking about Homeland and I was like well why the fuck am I not talking about Homeland yeah yeah yeah yeah well that's why you have your finger on the pulse like you're you at 10 years old like why don't I know what Jimmy Kimmel was referring to right and so I started watching Homeland and I didn't quite get it same way that I started Girls when I was that age and I didn't quite get it and now I rewatch Girls and I was like that is my bible It is.

20:54It is. I don't know how many times I've rewatched that show. Have you read Fame Sick yet? I'm like a quarter through. Okay. Keep going. I've heard it's just unbelievable. I really wept at the end. Yeah, I think it's remarkable. And I think I, you know how like every Taylor album that comes out just perfectly aligns with the thing you need to listen to internally. There's like really something about Lena's reflection. And obviously like her life is such a singular, she's so singular. but there were so many parts of the book that I was like, why am I shaking? What's going on? It's like this honesty.

21:51It's the same with Taylor. You don't expect them to be so honest and then they're so honest and you're like... And she's just really also fair. There's something kind where you know she could go harder. You know what I mean? It's like there's something really beautiful to me, I think, about the way that she reflected on, obviously, the past 15 years. It's just pretty remarkable. She doesn't tell you how to feel about it. She's just like, this is what happened. And her personal voice to me is just one of my favorite to read ever. Ever. Ever. so it's like you know I can't wait to read it again soon are you a big reader I am I am but right now having just finished that I'm like reading the the script for this movie like every day on the because I'm like how having never done anything like this before I'm like how how will I remember all is this your first time acting yes and what's the premise of the film well I can't share that but I can share that um that Helena Rain who's directing and she wrote the script is like a mad scientist genius like which and I say that in like the highest form of which is compliment big I mean like I it's she's um she's just a she's just so brilliant and when And I met her for the first time three years ago.

23:27It was like similar to us because we're sisters. We like are. I know. I really like this the first time we've held hands. Let's stay here. Well, I was like, we walked in and I was like, we've met. And then we sat down and I was like, we haven't met. We haven't. I know. I also like, had I known we were going to be at your house, like you'd have a housewarming. Anyway. No. Yeah. No. And now I know you like these. No. Which one is it? Santal? yeah sorry to fuck with the set sorry no please um expect a fat candle later today oh my god um helena when i met her i was like oh i feel like i'd known her before and then when she sent me the script um it i felt like i was being tased is like the way i can describe it was just so electrifying and um anyway I've been reading that every single day are you a reader no I try so hard but when I get it I really get it yeah like I really get it like I'm I'm doing fame sick and I'm also doing this book called strangers what's the book I'm reading no it's because Louise loves I haven't read that yet, but I know the premise.

24:42It sounds real. It's crazy. It's crazy. And my best friend Brett read it and she was like, you, she was like, Brett doesn't like cry. And she was like hysterically sobbing. And she was like, I, you need to read this book. Okay. And so I read the first chapter and at the end of the first chapter, the husband's like, right. And it's just like crazy. Right. It's like crazy. I've, it's like the way she describes it. He like walks in. It's not even a spoiler. He leaves her. And like he walks in the room. Even I know that. Yeah. He walks in the room and it's like, I'm leaving you. Yeah. Out of nowhere.

25:14And it's like. No, thank you. What? No, thank you for like anxious dashments. No, that is. Yeah. She I've seen snippets of her speaking on the process of writing the book. And I'm just stoked for that woman that she. What is her name? I'm forgetting. Of course I don't know. Right. OK. What is her name? Belle. Belle Burden. Cool. Cool. What a cool name. What a star. Um, yeah, I'm just so happy for her that she's having all the success around something that's like, sounds so painful. I know. Um, I have, I am getting a sense and I will send you some books along with a candle. Wait, please. I do think.

25:53If you send me a book, I'll read it. Okay, great. Yeah, if you send me a book, I'll read it. And also like, like how do you feel about poetry? Love poetry. It's short. I love, do you write poetry? I would not call it that, but I have written things that to me, I was like, is this going to be a song? And then no. It's never, you've never written a poem that's turned into a song? Oh, well, no. I mean, I've written, yeah, I suppose, well, I've never been like time for me to write a poem and then it becomes a song. I've written songs that I'm like, no, it's not a song. That doesn't like, that won't.

26:26Got it. Or I don't, that isn't for some reason. It's not calling me to translate it into song. You know who wrote a bunch of poetry that turned into music was Amy Winehouse. That absolute queen who can do no wrong. No wrong. And she, I've seen that documentary so many times. And she, I remember like Mark Ronson talks about like she like goes to the backyard. She comes back and she's like, I just wrote this poem. And it was like back to black. And it's like, what? Can you imagine being Mark Ronson as well? No. No. Like literally no. No. yeah I mean one of the greatest writers of all time she's yeah she I I don't I've never I think I um I remember like in school and stuff anytime there'd be like a you know poetry adjacent project it would like hurt me like I'd be like oh I hate it but then when it's not being like guided I do find sometimes that there's like I don't know certain songs certain songs stay on the page and then yeah forever as summer comes to a close it has made me sad that I have not seen enough live shows which has made me want to plan to see more of them specifically I would love to see Ryan Beattie on tour and Gracie Abrams on tour her tour begins December 2nd 2026 it's the look at my life tour and you can get tickets for that at SeatGeek.com.

27:50You can use my code THERAPUS for 10 % off. And the reason I like buying tickets on SeatGeek is because it shows you events popular to your area if you put in like where you are. Also, when you're purchasing your ticket, it rates it on a scale from one to 10, one being not the best, 10 being the best. So you know you're getting enough bang for your buck. SeatGeek isn't just for concerts, it's for comedy shows, it's for Broadway shows. I mean, you must see Meg Stalter and O'Mary on Broadway. I cannot emphasize that enough. And if you miss Max Dalter, Bowen Yang is the next Mary, who will also be incredible, who I'm so excited to see.

28:24So there's comedy, there's music, there's Broadway, there's sporting events. I mean, the World Cup just happened. It's about to be baseball season still going on. It's going to be warm out for a while. People are still going to want to be outside. And I really do feel like live music and live events are such a form of community. I mean, we saw it personally when the Knicks were playing in New York. Like everyone, the city was just alive in a way that it hasn't been in a while. And I really feel like live events bring that sense of togetherness. And SeatGeek.com helps bring everyone together. You can use my code THERAPUS for 10 % off.

29:00Also, if you click the link in the description and download the app, the code THERAPUS is automatically downloaded to your account. And once again, that's code THERAPUS for 10 % off. So thank you again, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. This episode of Therapist is brought to you by Booking.com. I was looking through my camera roll the other day. I kind of had like this week. There's always this week in summer where you're kind of like, I feel like I had so much fun and now everything's slowing down. And I feel like time is wasting away and I need to make the most out of summer. And I found this photo the past weekend.

29:35I celebrated my friend Elliot's birthday in the Hamptons and I was looking at photos And I was like, God, a weekend away is just the best thing in the entire world. And there's only so much time left in summer. And it inspired me to try to book a new trip, which I will be doing on booking.com. Because booking.com is the easiest place to book a trip for a large, for anyone and also a large group of friends. Because you are able to put in everybody's needs and requests. And it will help you find a place to rent or a hotel room. because at the end of the day, as long as you have a place to stay and a roof over your head, the rest of the trip kind of plans itself.

30:14It's all about the people you're with. Booking.com makes that first hurdle of just making sure you have that place to stay easy. I mean, I say it all the time. When I was on tour, we would literally pull up to places and we would have no place booked. And Matt would quickly type in some stuff on Booking.com and we would have a place in five seconds. I was never worried. And I'm so excited to get to planning my final summer trip go on book that trip it's easy booking.com booking.yeah thank you booking.com again for sponsoring tonight's episode close to you did you feel like because we're your fans like if you don't release that release this i'll kill you yeah they're like if you don't put it out i will like rip every fingernail off your body and then like peel your skin because i was there when that snippet dropped oh what yes i was there with the og high school videos yes oh that is so nice that is so that's so trippy now i it it is because i remember seeing you just sing on instagram be relentless and then all of a sudden it was like no i well i loved i loved that song i just kind of I I feel like um well to answer your question yes yes and I think it's nice like even thinking about this album I'm like there are songs that that are you know a couple years old that I would never have thought then would you know maybe ever see the light of day or like be on this album but the but the way that songs kind of find you at the right time I I appreciate that And I think it's kind of cool to have started putting music out that way where it was really impulsive and these tiny little snippets and getting immediate feedback from strangers was my introduction to what my relationship with my audience kind of would end up looking like.

32:24And there was like a real gift in that because it kind of provided like a degree of intimacy that, at least in my experience, like it feels rare. Yeah. You know, to feel like we're in conversation with one another as much as we are. And sometimes it's really fun to engage and listen and respond with like a thumbs up. Like, yes, okay, I'll put that song out. and then and then it's also really like liberating to be like I know that doesn't represent me at all and I love that you have you know affection for it but it you know but certainly not but I feel like you see that epitomized when I forget what set or what festival you were doing but the entire electrical thing went out oh my god and you were able to cool in Madrid yeah and you were able to just like completely just get on the ground and talk to your audience and it was like one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen oh it was so nuts that day was crazy you're like no no no no no it was really crazy because it was it was so hot but that's why it happened it was so hot that the system just like blew um and it was that was one of the most memorable shows of all time for you You know, I will never forget that.

33:45Because it was like, I don't know. There's something like in that moment, it's also amazing. You're just like, okay, the mutual love becomes so apparent. Sometimes when you're in like a run of show, like it's not autopilot, but there are times sometimes where you're, you know, if you're on tour every single night, like I'm sure you must feel this doing your job as well. Kind of. Sometimes if you're capable of doing it and not being like 110 % present, sometimes your body, like if you're exhausted or whatever the thing is, you'll like, you can still get by if you are. It's like a script sometimes.

34:28Yeah, which like I really try to be like, that's why I like we'll do a quick little meditation before every show just to be like, okay, you're here now. And the feet are on the ground. And like the people like this particular audience will never again be the exact same. like the alchemy is made up of every single individual you know all of the things because I want to give them everything and like anyway um but when your shit goes left and the power cuts out it's like this like incredible moment where you're like I sincerely really want to stay and like give them a show and they sincerely for whatever reason didn't leave like and they carried it and it was amazing and we made it work with just with no mic nothing plugged in just an incredible but it was just beautiful and i think it was also such an amazing representation of madrid like their city is so alive and fucking like it's infectious i want to go to madrid so bad you would love it everyone says that and barcelona you gotta go i've been to barcelona the ones but I fought with my mom the entire time oh no yeah what'd you fight about everything what's your relationship like with your family best friends okay are you an only child no everyone thinks so but I have a younger brother I don't know why I wasn't there actually at all every I have a younger brother named Luke and the age difference he's 23 and I'm 26 okay lovely but um we fought about everything like I put her iPad in her checked bag instead of her carry-on and she thought someone was going to steal it.

36:04Yeah. I do have to ask you. Yeah, tell me everything. Torian with Tucker. Oh! Where do we start? Where do we even begin? I mean, biggest star on planet Earth. I know. And he knows it too. He does know it, doesn't he? He knows it too. I just love him. It's so crazy. I tried when... I'm trying to remember when we first... I it's so odd like trying to trace back like the origin of all of these Tucker where did he come from where well first of all when did you two meet when did that the podcast I'm like are you enemies I don't know okay okay okay we were supposed to get dinner and then I was like I can't I can't do dinner like because i hate you because i was like i was tired i was like i can't do dinner i'm canceled i'll see you tomorrow and then i thought we he the way he texts is not the way he behaves so he's texting he's like so excited so excited and then he sat down and just disseminated my character right right for like an hour and i was like um was it like demoralizing and i was i looked at louise after and i was like was that really bad and she goes i think it was really good and then now we're best friends he's the greatest he's the greatest of all time and i adore him he's the greatest of all time and I adore him as well and we've got our like main ties um with he's legitimately from there my mom's side is just all from there but I remember when I started when I discovered he was a person initially all those years ago I was like wow he's so talented and then like the main of it all was like oh I'm gonna love you forever and um I just think he's done such a beautiful job of like maintaining the integrity of who he is and also doing everything he seemingly everything he wants and um the fact that also like now I'm just thinking like the fact that he's in Lena's thing yes I was literally about to say like what a perfect I just I really I really appreciate those sweet universe moments where like the right people find each other and I do think in this um I can't speak to that at all I know literally very little about it and haven't seen anything but I'm assuming knowing the two of them I'm like that it makes my heart feel very full the way they talk about each other yeah is like so much love yeah I'm just happy for him were you ever Sally no what no never listen I feel like Sally is eternal don't you i yeah i mean who knows how many days we have like yeah left on this earth but i'd you know anytime yeah one of these years i know every day i wake up and i'm like maybe the world will end yeah yeah maybe today at least we've now met now i know before it actually did all you know blow up um and what was it like touring with taylor oh goodness just what did you learn?

39:12Oh, um, really like it's so easy to talk about because it was, it was like the master class, you know what I mean? Yeah, I can't even imagine. Um, the, what did I learn? Um, obviously the biggest tour in the history of tours, tours in the history of human race. Um, and so you get to watch like this titan of the industry um top down make the experience for every single person who ever attended but every single person who works to make it happen like the best version of the experience that it could be and and um it's like a it's basically like there's like the number of people working on that tour it's like the equivalent of a city like there are There's so many people.

40:05And what's amazing about touring is like not one single person is on tour if they don't have to be there. It's like everyone's job is essential. And when you see everyone's like generosity of spirit be the way it is, everyone's smiling all the time. It like felt like the equivalent of, um, there was something very like summer camp vibes about it. And, um, she is trying to think like really like what I learned, like I learned everything, but I, but I learned on like a personal level that it's like she, like the show always goes on no matter what. You would never know if she was sick. Like, you would never know if her heart was aching for something.