AI Demos and News: Llama 3, Marblism, Lumona & AI Jet-Fighter Dogfights | E1936

0:00We had a really thoughtful argument about, can you trust Facebook or not? You put this as infrastructure. Infrastructure. And that is why you would lean towards, hey, you can trust Facebook on this. They've got a good track record. I think I would say as a business partner, no, I don't believe you can trust Facebook. I'd be very cautious if you're a startup of ever talking to that company. Like if they made like an Instagram API, I don't know. They may take it away from you. Never trust them on APIs. But on infrastructure, they do have a track record. So to be totally fair, I like to call balls and strikes.

0:28Do not, you will strike out with them as a partner, as a business partner. They will slit your throat. I know because my friends woke up and they're like, hey, J-Cal, you remember you told me if I went to bed with Zuckerberg, I wake up with my throat slit? I'm like, yeah. They're like, I'm in a bed covered in my own blood. This Week in Startups is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. To redeem a$100 LinkedIn ad credit and launch your first campaign, go to linkedin.com slash thisweekinstartups. Curotech. Are you one of those tech companies that knows you need to be using AI, but you're not even sure where to start?

1:03Well, then you need CuroTech. They are AI experts and they're offering Twist listeners an AI strategy roadmap tailored to your business for$5 ,000. That's 50 % off the normal cost just for telling them we sent you. Check out curotech.com slash twist to get$5 ,000 off. And Zendesk. The best customer experiences are built with Zendesk. qualifying startups can join their startup program and get zendesk products free for six months visit zendesk.com slash startups today to get started all right everybody welcome back to this week in startups with me again my guy sunny madra it's so great we get to spend this time together every week talking about our jobs and just how fast ai is moving this has been a really significant start of the year because here we are we're the first half of the year and so many big sea changes and of course facebook coming out of last place as we described in the last episode and now in the top two or three language models depending on who you believe is a series of events we did not predict we did predict both of us that open source would win the day but i don't think either of us predicted that facebook would be the one to do it or to do it at this pace i will say when they came out with Llama 3 on Thursday, its capabilities, and we're just three days in, right?

2:29It's Monday now. Its capabilities are blowing people's minds. The way to really think about what they've been able to do, which I think has everybody shook, and I mean shook it in the best way possible, is that they showed that they were able to build a model that is much smaller. And in being much smaller, they were able to... Hold on, I'm going to open this up real quick here. This chart right here is really amazing. And so we didn't get to talk about this in the last episode. So I'm going to go bottoms up. What this shows here is Llama 3 8 billion, the smaller one that they released, is better than the original GPT-4.

3:16Okay. Think about that. Okay. So GPT-4, everybody lost their mind. Yes. And thought, hey, that killed a thousand startups, yada, yada. Yeah. There was a lot of brouhaha. But their light version, in other words, their little eight ounce mini can, mini bottle that you get at a fancy hotel lobby. You know them talking about the little Coke bottles they give you. They pour like the little eight ounce bottle. It looks very dramatic. Their mini Coke is better than the two liter bottle that OpenAI. And so that is truly significant and what that means. And it's also free. So free and unencumbered. What does that mean practically for businesses when a free and unencumbered open source model is being decided on nice and light, or you're deciding on chat GPT4?

4:10These are the falling considerations that happen because of it. one for your enterprise you can run this model at scale with a relatively small footprint of hardware in order to run gpt4 you need like a significant footprint of hardware to run it you could run this open source so there's no one you can't exactly two so i think that's one two because it's open source to your point you can have it run within your firewall yeah so you can be sure it has the same capabilities that we were all raving about, but you have it for yourself privately. What does one lose by going open source versus going with a commercial product?

4:50In other words, if some giant corporation, GE, General Electric, is meeting with OpenAI and their internal team or a consulting firm is saying, you got to go Lama, you got to go open source. And then OpenAI comes that afternoon and there's back-to-back meetings with the CTO, the CEO, CFO, all hands on deck. There's two pitches. We understand the open source pitch. Now give me how the chat GPT team, the open AI team, or any other commercial product, it could be Oracle, it could be Salesforce, would come in and say, hey, listen, here's why you don't go open source. Yeah. So typically what has happened in open source, and this is what's going to be unique with meta, whether it's Linux and Red Hat, I'm going to put these examples together, right?

5:35Or Kafka and Confluent, right? There's always a commercial company that has a majority of the open source developers working for them or on their payroll or something like that, that can provide support, that can basically take feature requests, and they're the commercialization are right and so the example i always give for that would be you can uh host on wordpress.com or you can download the source code on wordpress.org and my friend brian alvey my former partner shout out to my bestie um you know he works at wordpress now and he works on the vip product if you're a vip and you don't want to deal with managing everything plugins updates and you're not going to get into the weeds you might as well just go with wordpress vip which i did for a long time for my blog or like Linux, you can go compiled it yourself or you can, you're most likely going to go pay Red Hat, right?

6:32If you're an enterprise. And so, you know, and so I think that would be like the one angle you'd say, Hey, if you're, you know, if you're a big enterprise and you want support, well, open AI can provide you support or Anthropic can provide you support or Cohere can provide you support or Mistral can provide you support versus I don't think Facebook is going to pick up the phone to XYZ Corporation saying, hey, we're having some problems. You know, can you help us fix it? So I think like that, that's one advantage that, you know, you could argue about from a closed source perspective. But the flip side is, I think folks also understand if they go closed source, they'll get locked in.

7:15And so they're, you know, companies are going to lean towards and, you know, we brought this up like a couple weeks ago the a16z they did like a little survey and they said like 82 percent of enterprises want to work with open source they don't want to work with closed source because they've seen what happens on that got it is there any concern in the marketplace and then let's get to some demos here because that's why people are here if you're not watching the show uh you can watch two middle-aged men um to show these demos uh you can excuse our appearance but you get to see the actual demos go to uh youtube and just type this week in startups subscribe put the bell on uh you know we're publishing three or four days a week god i need another co-host help me with this heavy lift so is there any concern about facebook being the person doing this and i i know i've dogged zuckerberg for decades just on how he treats partners because i watched it happen to investments and i watched it happen to myself you know for a period of time they were promoting these pages and I had talked to our friends over there and I started building pages and then they rug pulled us and I got really upset about it.

8:22I told, you know, Sheryl Sandberg and other friends over there are like, why are we investing in these pages? And then we get to a hundred thousand people and we paid to get those hundred thousand people. And then they rug pulled us and only like a thousand people would see our updates to that page, even though they were following it. And they said, oh, pay to boost it. And I'm like, wait a second. If I had built a mailing list with this, you know, one or$2 per subscriber, I would own them and I wouldn't have you mitigating them. So I really got very upset at Facebook. I'll be totally honest. As an entrepreneur, Mark Zuckerberg did it to my friend, Mark Pincus, and Mark Pincus is friends with Zuckerberg.

8:56So if he'll shiv Mark Pincus and Zynga, that is all public knowledge. I'm not speaking out of school here. You can just look it up and throttle their traffic, et cetera. And all those businesses that were built inside of Facebook on the dev program, they screwed them. So is it possible in any way for Facebook to screw people here, like they've done every other time. Navigating the B2B maze can feel really tough, huh? You're trying to hit the mark with all those top tier executives. You want them to pay attention to your enterprise product. But where can you find all those big fish, the whales, the ones who call the shots and make the buying decisions for corporations, for startups, and everybody in between?

9:34Well, here's where LinkedIn ads is going to solve that problem for you. And I've used this. It is one of my secret weapons. LinkedIn means business. Business equals LinkedIn in people's minds. When you're on LinkedIn, you're in the business mindset. So you're going to really be thinking about business products and services. You're open to those opportunities. And LinkedIn recently passed a billion users. 180 million of those billion are senior executives, 18%. But hey, we all know about the 1%. 10 million C-suite executives, That's your CFO, CTO, CIO. These are the people who are always looking for a new product or service to make their organization run better, but they are on LinkedIn.

10:14That's why LinkedIn's ad platform delivers two to five times greater return on investment compared to other social media platforms. So easy to understand why this is because this is where all the business people are and they're in that business mindset. Super easy call to action. Make your B2B marketing everything it can be and get$100 credit on your next campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash thisweekinstartups to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash thisweekinstartups. No spaces, no dashes. Terms and conditions apply because they're giving you a hundy. I'm going to give some examples here.

10:44Three big projects that Facebook has really changed the shape of the open community around are the Open Compute Project, where they basically - Yes, we talked about this last episode. Explain this, yeah. Exactly. So what Facebook ended up doing was open sourcing their designs for everything you see here, cooling environments, data centers, networking gear, racks, security, server storage. Wow. And so, yeah. And so they basically, you know, and look like they really believe in this and it helped create an ecosystem and a supply chain. Explain to people why Facebook would do the open compute project.

11:24And if they had an innovation saying cooling computers, lowering energy consumption, or maximizing storage, they would share that with competitors. Why would they do that? Why would they give away their innovations? I would say because ultimately they didn't view that as like their differentiation. They're not a data center company. They're a social network, right? And so they knew that if they open sourced it and other people picked it up, it would improve the supply chain. it would make it such that they could buy more and they wouldn't have to be like the sole proprietary bespoke vendor. So I think it was like a really smart call on their part.

11:57Right. And said another way, the more innovation they gave away, the more innovation would come in. So while it might seem to be in the short term, not wise to tell your competitors like Google or Amazon, AWS, they're all watching the open computer project. They see some great innovation and maximizing storage or reducing heat in a server rack and they take it, quote unquote, steal it, and they leverage it, well, that's a bummer, right? You just lost an advantage. But for every 10 things they give away, the concept here is they might get back 20, 30, 40, a multiple of innovations. Am I correct?

12:35Yep. And look, they've been able to really become a leader in data centers because of that, right? They have some of the best in the world. I'm going to give two more examples really quickly here. react.js so they created this framework so that you could have basically a common code base for your web and native applications and they created and they open sourced it and many many companies use this framework to do web and mobile apps out of the same code base which is why at a period of time when people use react a lot of the libraries that were available the default libraries etc everything started to look like a facebook app i think right like there were so so a lot of the buttons or u ux ui uh experiences you might have might have come from libraries that are react yes and again exactly they give this away they don't consider the interface they don't consider the hard drives or the energy or the cooling systems as where the value lies in their business they see both of these things as costs and friction great yeah let's keep going and the last one is PyTorch.

13:39Okay, I know about this. So PyTorch is the tool that is used to create models. And it's based on Python. It's based on Python. That's why it's called PyTorch. Exactly. And so this is what models are written in. This is what's used to train models. And so what I would say is when it comes to this whole AI revolution, they've been at the core of it and they've been pushing this technology. And if it wasn't for what they've done, And, you know, we wouldn't see as much advances as we see across the board. So these are some examples where these are fundamental components to the modern internet as we have it today.

14:18And, you know, Facebook slash Meta has been at the core of them all. Great. Awesome. So they have a history. You put this into the bucket of not partnerships or using the social graph and the social network and the ad network. You put this as infrastructure. infrastructure. And that is why you would lean towards, hey, you can trust Facebook on this. They've got a good track record. I think that you've won the argument here. I was putting it up there to make sure we had a really thoughtful argument about, can you trust Facebook or not? I would say as a business partner, no, I don't believe you can trust Facebook.

14:49I'd be very cautious if you're a startup of ever talking to that company. Like an Instagram API? I don't know. They may take it away from you. Never trust them on APIs, but on infrastructure, they do have a track record. So to be totally fair i like to call balls and strikes do not you will strike out with them as a partner as a business partner they will slit your throat conversely on open source they'll be delightful listen i'm saying it not you yeah okay because i know because my friends woke up and they're like hey jacal you remember you told me i would i went to bed with zuckerberg i wake up my throat slit i'm like yeah they're like i'm in a bed covered in my own blood oh sorry for the metaphor folks i'm just calling balls and strikes here all right it's a little spicy today it's monday we're off all right okay taping on module monday's release on terrific tuesdays okay go ahead all right okay let's let's get into one more small piece of news because it's important uh okay with a lot of things going on the world today and then we'll we'll get right into the demos after that okay i hope this doesn't have to do with ukraine or trump uh it's like okay here we go but i think it's worth talking about my inbox and my dms are filled with people saying you have to stop Sachs from talking about Ukraine.

16:00All in is being ruined by politics. And then another group of people saying, why didn't you cover these three political stories? I want Sachs' opinion on this. It's hilarious. You guys should just do an offshoot show where it's all politics. I think a politics roundtable would be hilarious. And then we could all road into it if we want to. And I would do it with Sachs. Me, Sachs. All in politics. Me, Sachs. And then like... And it was all just that. Oh, that's a great idea. Let me float that with Sachs. because imagine it was me and Sachs and then a Democrat and then maybe somebody in the middle and then I moderate.

16:32That would be pretty dope. Okay. So let's keep moving. All right. So look, this is just a quick one. This came out on Friday or maybe it was even earlier in the week, which is the US Air Force did a dogfight with a F-16, I believe, that was being flown by AI. It had some people sitting inside of it they showed right here but um um but you know and and it participated in a dog fight against a human flown f-16 and so i think we know who won they didn't share the results probably for obvious that's fairly obvious this is what's going to happen i mean if we play video games the ai yeah you know obviously trounces humans over time and uh the ai adapts So this would be a great way to train our humans is have the AI train them and look for flaws.

17:23And yeah, you'll probably have pilots up there and they'll click the AI button and then you have the pilots as a backup. And I got FSD 12 yesterday. And I've done two rides on FSD 12. It's your personal F16. Well, I'll just say, I don't think like you could turn on the network tomorrow, right? I always like to call balls and strikes here. Everybody knows the rules, even though I might have friends over at a certain company. I'm always going to tell it to you straight. FSD is not taking the steering wheel out this year or next year. But like a cruise or Waymo, I think if you put a safety driver in, they could launch and we'll find out on August 8th when the robo taxi launches.

18:04I do think FSD 12 represents something significant in terms of improvement. It feels a little more human than the previous. I was on, you know, I've been using autopilot since day one. And I did a couple of drives and there were a couple intersections where it had to intervene um and a human had to take over and it was a little dicey but you know very few like maybe two a ride maybe one every 10 minutes one and this is street driving on the highway it's bulletproof so i'd say on highway no disengagements but on streets which is where a lot of those rides are going to occur it needs interventions like once every 10 minutes i think okay driving around the peninsula and so So I do think they'll iron those out very quickly.

18:45I could see robo taxis starting next year sometime with a safety driver, and I could see them removing the safety driver and having remote interventions, which is how Cruise did it. And I believe that's how Waymo's doing it, a human intervention. Maybe, you know, 2026. That would be the timeline I would be on. Humans in it, 2025. No humans in it, 2026. And then maybe the network expands, 2728. Wow. Okay, everybody. Buddy, it's your boy, J. Cal here. And I've talked a lot on This Week in Startups about how the smartest startups are shifting their engineering firepower to Latin America to boost their efficiency.

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19:50They are trusted by industry-leading innovators like Automatic, the makers of WordPress, and Comcast. Find out why at curatech.com slash twist. Stop waiting and be proactive about hiring the right people. Head over to curatech.com slash twist, C-U-R-O-T-E-C dot com slash T-W-I-S-T and get ready to boost your team's productivity with an elite Latin American engineering team at a fraction of the cost of a U.S. developer. And you'll get 20 % off your first month. How generous. Thanks to the team at Curatech. Have you tried the Waymos in the city? I haven't used it yet. I got a bunch of invites, but I know enough people who've used them to say, hey, look, on a small grid.

20:29Yes. without like anything too crazy like suburban driving or you know one and a half lane roads person jumping on the hood and smashing the windshield i mean it does seem to be doing a great job and cruise was doing a great job until they got kicked out of the city and they were doing some fugazi stuff it looks like they're a little edgy but your point about this f-16 is ai is ready for prime time yeah i was ready for prime time it's going to be everywhere in our lives okay yeah let's get let's get into it so actually a really good transition jay cow we don't spend a lot of time talking about this product but they've had some significant improvements so i'm going to bring up grok with a k oh okay here we go what what i've found in my most recent efforts is that grok with a k in regular mode is elon's grok is awesome for first-party research what does first-party research mean define that well i guess like like i'm doing research myself and i need to get a like a an understanding of like from like a broad range of topics and i want it summarized so i can read it myself and so i've done the work what i'll say is like and you know Maybe you can pull up an example too, if you want, but I did this.

21:48It's like, what are people saying about Llama 3? And I'm just going to read this for everyone that's not watching. It says, people are expressing a range of opinions about Llama 3. Some are excited and enthusiastic about its capabilities, praising its performance and the fact that it can be run on personal machines. We were just talking about this. The highlight of the model's length and quality responses, and some even compare its performance favorably to much larger models like GPT-4. Users are sharing their experiences using Llama 3, with some describing it as incredible, the most capable openly available LLM to date.

22:18However, there's some curiosity and skepticism with users asking about its performance on private benchmarks and whether it can compete with larger models, right? There's a surprise amongst users at the lack of discussion on Llama 3 on Twitter, despite its release. It's a really interesting, you know, what I find for topics that are very timely, which, you know, you and I have to think about when we're doing the pod, you have to think about it when you're doing your other pods it is the best that's out there because it does not have to go out to the open internet to go and research these things yeah here's mine um i just asked it how are the knicks doing in the playoffs and you know hallucinations and your data in are still on mode too but you had it in fun mode oh so i have to take it out of fun mode because in fun mode it says the knicks have started their playoff journey with a solid performance securing a 2-0 lead over the first round series against philadelphia so that's wrong it's 1-0 so let me just put it in regular mode here yeah put it in regular mode okay and then i gotta ask the question again i guess so in the first sentence it had that thing wrong but then it had a lot of actually real good stuff josh hart's critical three-pointer in the fourth quarter sealing the deal and then it says looking at to game two the knicks are aiming to build on their lead and maintain the home court advantage so that's all true too what i like is it gives you the actual tweets below where it's pulling that information from and so i was about to say where are the sources and here are the sources so i think grok is got again we talked about how data is the new oil and here even in regular mode it must have this two-oh lead wrong again because it's pulling in it's a future let's place a bet exactly well it is true we're going to win the second game tonight the point here i think i'm making is the data on twitter uh or x formerly knows twitter has a huge advantage it's real time but it's going to take the model a long time to understand what's spam in that system because elon made a very brave decision and i don't really talk about this stuff too much because then everybody thinks i have some inside information or i'm trading on elon's name so i'm always a little bit cautious about time but let me just give you my two cents on what elon did in terms of freedom of speech not what i would have done if i bought twitter i'll tell you that i would have not done that i would have made it into an entertainment platform.

24:34And that was my vision for it. Not that my vision cares, but I thought, you know, doing a Twitter comedy festival, a Twitter music festival, you know, just build up the entertainment and have it be like a competitor to Disney with the social network or a competitor to NBC. That's what I would have done. But that's me. I'm a media guy. Yeah. I mean, what Elon did going for free speech is the greatest mitzvah you could do for humanity and democracy, but there is a price for it. And the price is you have a lot of anonymous accounts. And so you've got Wall Street bets, Cain Coe of the Great, this one, that one, tons of these anonymous accounts that are getting huge followings that could be controlled by state media, could be some dude in their basement getting paid by some organization who knows what organization is paying them.

25:23Or it could just be somebody who's a partisan. It could be somebody who's mentally ill it could be somebody who's three or four of those things put together so when you have freedom of speech and you allow the overton window to open what happens more people are going to say more uh risky crazy insightful things so you get more noise and then somewhere in that noise could be incredible signal in other words the next pulitzer the next whistleblower will happen on x or twitter but you'll also have a lot of false positives where alex jones says sandy hook parents are actors right so you're gonna you're gonna 100x the number of conspiracy theories and then you will get with that some amazing moments where you break news before anybody else or you're on a story that's super important before anybody else yeah what does that mean for this language model in your mind sonny what does that do to the language model when you have all the conspiracy theorists, a lower window for posting and not having things being taken out.

26:22Yeah. I'm going to share again. Okay. And I asked, you know, again, because this has a mix of people saying a bunch of things, especially this weekend with all the releases, when is GPT-5 coming? So what are people saying about GPT-5? And it's going to give me a bunch of things here. And people are saying, hey, maybe it won't be as significant as a jump. And so you're getting the, like you said, the reference from what people are saying there, which is awesome. and then you can say, when will it be released? And it says, hey, I really like this. The release date for GPT-5 has not been officially announced yet.

26:53However, there is speculation and rumors that it might be released mid 2024, possibly during the summer. It's important to note that these are based on reports and insider information rather than official statement. So what I think - That was, you nailed that. Yeah, so like for me, I find that there is a treasure trove of incredible information on Twitter. Okay. Twitter search sucks. It's totally unusable. And what I found with the Grok with a K is that it now gives the ability to look through all that signal and noise and pull up the valuable information. Yeah. So that's what the language model is going to have to learn.

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29:06You know, you could ask it like a really spicy question. And I guess this is what the team over there has got to work on. So there's a more spicy one. Listen, I hate to bring Trump into it, but he's the trial started today. And I just asked a very basic question. Is President Trump being framed by corrupt prosecutors? And this is a really weird answer. The perspective that President Trump is being framed by corrupt prosecutors is present in the information provided. I'm not sure what information being provided is, but maybe it's... Maybe the link's below. Yeah. Some sources and individuals expressed skepticism and allegations regarding the fairness of the legal proceedings against him.

29:41For instance, there are claims suggesting a political motivation behind the charges with opinions stating that the legal actions are part of an effort to undermine Trump's political career and influence. Additionally, there are allegations of misconduct and bias within the justice system. Some individuals questioning the impartiality of the prosecutors involved. That's pretty down the middle, right? Because it's saying it's opinions. That's not inaccurate. It's a little kludgy, some of the sentence structure there. However, it is essential to consider that these views are not universally held and are often presented without direct evidence to support the claims of framing or corruption.