AI Demos: Llama 3 Innovations, vibecheck, Globe Engineer, Wisdolia and Tesla’s FSD | E1941

0:00chat gpt just made available to all its users is memory and what memory is it starts to learn about you in the memory settings of chat gpt which you should have available now it starts to remember and in this particular user's case it's showing that it's traveling to canada for a vacation has a two-year-old daughter named lena daughter oh wow so the language model is storing this as bullet points in your settings seeing this become available globally within chat gpt and This is incredibly dangerous, by the way. If this got hacked... Okay. Yeah. This Week in Startups is brought to you by Squarespace.

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1:29All right, everybody, welcome back to this week in startups. Madra Tuesdays have begun, AI Tuesdays. Sunny, it's time for demos. There's a little bit of news, but people are here for the demos. We got some news too. We got news too. We got demos and news. Let's get started. Let's start with Llama 3 because what's happened, last time we talked about it, we had a good episode i think a lot of people tuned in yeah what's happened since llama three and i'm gonna just pull in like an example and this will be pretty quick and this is why you know sort of what zuck was talking about was so important with respect to the ecosystem is what you can see here this is a good example by min and he's kind of gathered 10 ways that people have taken llama and basically pushing the limits of its capabilities okay and so to recap app llama three is facebook's open source language model they released it last week they're working on number four and um it's already shot up in the hugging face rankings to like the top two language models people are really excited about it because it's smaller faster better so the first thing we're going to talk about here is a user sabu shuban have basically taken llama three and you can make it such that you can deploy it locally on your computer okay so this is a regular old laptop and you can deploy it on that server as opposed to putting it on an H100 is like what somebody would normally do or put it on a Glock chip like you're working on.

3:00Correct. Okay. But now I would suspect if you're running it locally, it's incredibly slow and grinds to a halt. It's slower and it's good for like, like a maybe personal use cases, or you want to use it without the internet, or if you're kind of coding on a plane and you want a coding assistant without basically, you know, while you're doing something. So there are some limited use cases where this is it's usable, it's probably going to operate, you know, at the speed of like 10 to 15 tokens a second, which is, you know, reasonable for some for some use cases. Got it. So but it obviously would not, if you were offline, be able to go to the open web.

3:36Okay, so this is important. Why? Why is this important? Okay, we understand the fact you can run it on a laptop. Why is this important? Because what anybody actually doing here is that this is a good way that it may start becoming integrated within applications that don't want to go to the internet and don't want to pay. You know, when it's out on the internet, you have to pay someone for the inference, right? When you're running it locally on your machine, we go back to the good old days of JCal box software. Ah, got it. Yeah. When I was running my entrepreneurial efforts in my youth in Brooklyn, about seven miles from where I am right now in Lorman, Manhattan okay so that makes sense I can think of one application here if I have this on my local computer and I wanted to index everything on my computer there you go all my photos maybe all my documents whatever my mp3 files whatever I have locally most people store everything on the cloud but you might have a copy people take Dropbox or iCloud or Outlook Microsoft Drive and they and they syndicate here so yeah you can run this on your local computer like a local search engine of your computer.

4:43Got it. It makes total sense. We're going to go through these quickly. Someone took Llama 3 8B, which is a smaller model, and extended the context length to 160K. Explain context length. Give an example, just so people know. The default model is 8 ,000 tokens, right? So remember, we just use this proxy. Think of a token as a word. It's not quite, but it's a great proxy. So the default model only comes with a context length of 8k so 8 000 tokens which would be for example a long newspaper or magazine article a book you know that's a five-hour audio book or something might be 50 60 000 words a long book might be 100 000 words yeah so just to give people context here this small model basically would take like a sunday magazine or a new york new yorker article a long article and be able to put that in a context window correct and the context window needs to be have enough space for both input and output right and so you were trying to summarize a long book you wanted to basically make sure it has space to summarize it as well but what we've seen here is people have extended the training and they used 200 million tokens additional tokens to basically extend the context length to 160k it's fun this is yeah sort of the things that you know zach wanted to happen you know this one's very similar to things we've said, but people have made it a co-pilot within VS Code.

6:11Today, the leading co-pilot at Microsoft had their earnings last week, and they talked about they have millions and millions of paying co-pilot users. Well, now you can use Llama 3 with your, you can use it locally, or you can use it remotely. And basically, you can have it as a co-pilot in VS Code. Another user here has enhanced it for function calling, which is really useful this is tool selection so if you wanted to you know you want to use um the model in a workflow where it needs to make a decision to go out to the internet to do something this user here has extended it so that it can do function calling and it knows which tool to use depending on the question and there's like an example here it's using like a currency converter to do currency conversions here someone has squeezed it to make it run on a single four gigabyte gpu these are all those things that zuck was talking about which could be interesting innovations some could be useful some could spark other ideas and here basically what the user has done is they've done like a divide and conquer approach and like how they're doing the layer wise inference here a user you know interesting love using rock basically built a video summary tool.

7:23So what you can do here is you can basically drop in a link to a video and it'll create like an instant summary for you without you having to watch it, which is great. You know, sometimes we don't have times to watch the one hour and 40 plus minute Olin podcast, Intense J. Cal. And so it was a long one this week. Yes, for sure. I'll just do one or two more here. This is just showing the world, the realm of possibilities. Here, someone has combined lava and we've demoed that before that's a vision model with llama three so using the capabilities of llama three with the vision capabilities of lava who is lava who that's an open source project yeah that's an open source project that is basically um it really meant for research it's you have to go get a commercial license you can't use it for commercial without getting a license from them and you can see in the example where they've combined the reasoning capabilities remember of llama three 8 billion which was as good as llama 270 billion with a vision model up front and so this is really exciting uh as well yeah here this i'll do this as the last one and then we can kind of move on well this one might invite this one might impact some bets i think this week in startups.com slash bets to see cyanide betting like lunatics on ai predictions yeah so this one basically someone again created a variant of llama three abacus and basically they've made it available within their iphone app so this is running locally on your iphone app for you know the small model which is awesome yeah so this is something we thought was gonna happen at some point and now you can think well the context window could be all of your contacts on your phone all of your i messages on your phone things that exist on your phone maybe it can record your maybe you could build an app that records your screen and then adds everything that you record on your screen puts it in llm that's local on your phone and then if your phone gets dumped or like you know it's encrypted then nobody would know so there's this concern that i want to give my information to open ai or microsoft or some other third party that's no bueno for me but imagine and i had the guy i forgot his name it'll come to me in a moment who's doing the recording everything thing on your desktop.

9:42And I challenged him on the pod, like, are you recording signal on people's desktops? Like we're recording your whole desktop. I'm like, well, the expectation with signal is that those aren't recorded. So you're kind of like building a tool without ethics to record things that aren't supposed to be recorded. Right. And then you're putting it into a model that you're storing and it gets hacked and you're going to be in trouble here. So this would, if it's your local copy optimized for iphone let's say or android stored encrypted all of your data for all time recording everything you do could record every phone call or you know the metadata of the call in and out every conversation you have and you could ask it who haven't i talked to in the last week that i should talk is hey you haven't called your mom you haven't texted with your mom it could start to understand everything on your phone i think this is very powerful when we start seeing these language models running locally hey startups you ever notice how successful businesses are constantly evolving.

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11:41That's squarespace.com slash twist. Since you brought that up, J. Callen, I do have to give you credit. World's greatest moderator. You just have this uncanny ability because we didn't even plan this. No, we never planned it. It wasn't on today's list, but chat gpt just made available to all its users is memory what does it mean memory okay so they basically put this out in beta in february and what memory is it starts to learn about you okay and so you'll see in this example what they do here and i'm just gonna you know for the folks uh i'll narrate it but as i'm doing that here is what the user does is i live with a golden retriever named ellie and main coon and cat named teddy what this does is in the memory settings of chat gpt which you should have available now it starts to remember and in this particular user's case it's showing that it's traveling to canada for a vacation has a two-year-old daughter named lena daughter so the language model is storing this as bullet points in your settings so you don't have to tell it because i remember there was another feature not called memory it had a bad name but i would put in there i like sources and i like things presented in tables exactly that but this is much better because it's happening in real time so i wonder if we did ask it hey put that in the table hey cite your sources if it would put into its memory you like sources you like you like well yeah and you know it's doing it sort of automatically and also like you can force it to put something in there but i'm just bringing this up because you were talking about how you think people are going to use this on local models but we're seeing this become available globally within chat gpt and this is incredibly dangerous by the way if this got hacked okay uh yeah this is very dangerous and this is where i think break down why you think it's you know google has your search data instagram and tiktok have their algorithms watching what you look at what you like etc that could be very revealing people have complained before like oh oh my God, I was suffering from depression or I have cancer.

13:50Like the health stuff comes to prominence very quickly. Oh my God, they have these searches I did, et cetera. That's why people should use things like the Brave browser, which has a built-in VPN. Shout out to my friends at Brave. And incognito mode was the big joke. Like they called it, I think, porn mode, but not private mode is I think what the Google engineers jokingly called it because it doesn't do anything. And Google got in trouble, right? Because you saw this recently. they were sending themselves information on your incognito mode anyway this is um why this is um i want to finish this example for the listeners jcal where so the user basically told it the name of its golden retriever and cat and basically that went in the memory here that's what it's showing and then the user in a future example it says create a photo of my pets riding a surfboard and you'll see chat GPT create an image.

14:45And it says, here is the image of your golden retriever and main coon cat riding a surfboard. I hope you like how they look. And you got to remember that in the prompt, all the user said was, create a photo of my pets riding a surfboard, please. And it used its memory to enhance the response to the end user. So, yeah, I mean, this is going to be very powerful and very dangerous. So if it knows when, you know, your parent died, got a tragedy in your life when you got a cancer diagnosis, whatever it is, these things are really not things you want a company like OpenAI or Google or Microsoft to have their hands on and to have this whole psychographic of you, which Microsoft has had.

15:27You can spoof all these things very easily. When you sign up for these services, create yourself a burner account, tell them you're the opposite gender, add or remove 20 years from your age and use a burner email address so that these companies don't track you that's like number one use a vpn number two i suggest nord vpn or the belt and brave vpn both of those are pretty solid uh both of those also have sponsored the program because i love their products just so you know like the way the ads work on this show yeah i tell them what products i like they email me talking about the products on the show the people who are marketing like oh my god jake Jcal loves Audible.

16:06Jcal loves LinkedIn Jobs. Jcal loves Squarespace. Great. Have him read those ads because it's not an ad. It's like an endorsement. I love Notion and Coda and Squarespace. All those things you hear me talk about in the ads are actually, I'm using it every day. So we have our choice. We can skim the cream with the best partners. And Brave and NordVPN, two really great products. Shout out to Nord and Brave. You have to use those things. Do you use a VPN in Brave or no? No, I use Chrome and I use VPNs only when I'm traveling. Big mistake. You got to have your VPNs on all the time, shields up, and you can't use Chrome because you're giving every single thing you do to Google.

16:51And Google has shown you probably, like any corporation, whatever they say, whatever you think, you should not trust them. They can dump your search history. And look, I probably need to think about this more, but I have different Chrome profiles. I want one for work and I want, you know, personal one and my personal one. I like that. It's looking at all that because I use the Google search app and, you know, use feed is that because it's kind of looking at everything. So you've made a decision that you don't mind it. Yeah. I think it's a better experience for me. Okay. Yeah. I mean that, and that is the gift take.

17:24If you give of yourself and that's what we're seeing here and you get more personalization, I do think, you know, and I'm not being a conspiracy theorist here. people should use Brave as their default, which shields up as their default, and then back it up with Chrome or something. That's my best advice. And always, by default, have your VPN on only because you could get intercepted on Wi-Fi and you'll forget. You'll forget. And when I'm at an airport, I'm at Starbucks, whatever, I just don't want to not have NordVPN on. And NordVPN, by the way has something called double vpn which is nuts they do like a vpn to a vpn so like oh okay double layer of the vpns it's incredible and then when you're overseas i like to use sirius xm hulu nba then you can get that yeah and you know i'd say you know those services sometimes play cat and mouse with the vpns to try to ban them from using it but i would say nordvpn has the best track record for me in my experience i'm gonna try that you know my current go-to is i don't use public wi-fis i use my hotspot on my phone that that does help a lot and so i never go on public wi-fis but and if i'm traveling i use vpns for the exact same reason you're talking about so i can get to us-based services and by the way these things went from being like 30 40 bucks a month yeah to be like five or ten bucks a month so you don't really have an excuse if it's a hundred bucks a year like just get it folks if you hear my voice and i'm not saying that because they're partners you can pick whichever vpn you like i'm just telling you the one that is the most rock solid and i have it on my phone my laptop and my desktop boom rock and roll um should we do tesla really quick you wanted to talk about fsd we only had a small amount of time to talk about it on all in and you know we were asking to get predictions or whatever so people were like oh you guys don't understand you guys don't understand how fsd works i'm like i'm using fsd pretty great um and they're like you don't understand it's now it's a neural network it's not the c code i'm like i do because when i click the button it says we're no longer using c plus plus lines of code we're using the neural network and yeah you know i've met the guy who runs uh you know like i do understand that folks and so when i said i think it's going to take 10 years for five to ten percent of the rides to be automated i was talking number one on a global basis because jurisdiction matters and number two just the number of drivers out there available and the competition how expensive robo taxis are incredibly expensive teslas are incredibly cheap because they're already out there but net net net there's regulation there's the technology working in all markets all climates all conditions all roads all edge cases and so i thought i don't know in five years if of the 10 billion rides uber's doing and i think there's probably that i think uber might have less than 1 % of all rides globally in the world like you're not talking about paid um rides on just just trips i think there's something like a trillion trips or something so if they have 10 billion they have one percent right and 100 billion rides would be 10 so let's just say for argument's sake i don't know if this is true but let's just say uber's one percent of all global rides and then who knows how many um how quickly this will roll out by jurisdiction on a global basis i suspect foreign jurisdictions will do it first you know if you're in uae you know you need to get the government's permission and you know they could just have these up and running in dubai tomorrow because it's a top-down government who moves quickly somewhere like the united states in europe you can have regulators and local and protests i mean that's how democracies work so it's going to be much slower so i took the position one percent of rides per year for five to ten years it seems like back of the envelope that 1 % of rides, by the way, is 10 billion rides a year.

21:11So that means 10 billion rides in 2026. I don't think that'll happen, by the way. That's a lot of rides. But let's just say in 2027, it went to 10 billion, then 20 billion, then 30 billion, then 40 billion. What's happening is it's not taking away from Uber or Lyft in my mind. It's taking away from car ownership and public transportation, as well as the dogfight between the ride sharing services. and people are like, oh my God, you're crazy. You know, next week or this year, Tesla's gonna flip a switch and they're gonna own all of ride sharing. And I'm like, that's not possible because it's not legal in these jurisdictions.

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22:20And Vanta does more than just SOC 2. They also automate up to 90 % compliance for GDPR, HIPAA, and more. So here's your call to action. Stop slowing your sales team down and use Vanta. Get$1 ,000 off at vanta.com slash twist. That's vanta.com slash twist for$1 ,000 off your SOC 2. You sold your last company, two companies ago, to Ford. You have a lot of experience with self-driving and with car technology. And then Definitive was sold to Grox. You've got a lot of things in language models. With your unique perspective, you've heard my position. Obviously, Tesla bulls are out there saying they're going to win it all i get it you know if you own the stock you might talk it up and obviously you never bet against elon but i think he'll just get as many rides as uber over some period of time but i don't think it's actually taking away from uber lyft i think it's just taking away from people driving any service driving themselves and that's what's going to go away is car ownership is going to go away to car rentals and on 8 8 august 8th they're launching and they're going to show a car without steering wheel pedals from tesla which then means they fire up the production line and we've seen the production line and how you know difficult that is elon talks about it all the time cyber truck took a long time i think they're up to a thousand cyber trucks a week um i remember when model three hit five thousand a week like this is really hard he always says like designing a car is easy producing it is hard producing so who knows how long it takes to get the robo taxi up let's say he starts having that come off the line next year that would be like a record but let's say he's motivated and i wouldn't underestimate he gets there in 2026 he start they start coming off the line 26 okay a thousand a week five thousand a week ten thousand a week it's a dreadnought with his factory so ten thousand a week would be half a million a year okay half a million a year a million a year two million a year you know he's gonna get he'll get there but it'll be one he'll get one percent of rides a year every year which is 10 billion rides what's your take, Sonny?

24:19Am I wrong? Are the Tesla bulls wrong? What's reality here? Because Waymo is in two cities, three cities, right? LA, San Francisco, Arizona, I believe. There's a lot of other people in this space. What do you think is going to happen here? Handicap it for us. I think there's the following major considerations that just can't maybe like overlooked. I think we kind of need to break it up. We are very far away from your driveway to your final destination in any service. The amount of corner cases that exist from every single person's driveway to every single business is very, very hard. Okay. Why are you saying your driveway?

25:03Why is that important? You're saying your driveway. You're not saying - Without sharing too much information, I've been to your place, right? Yeah. And your driveway is hard for a human. Sure. It's a long winding driveway. It kind of goes downhill a bit. So in order for it to get, you know, you got to get past the gate, right? And so in order for it to come down to, you know, your front door and then take you out, like it's, it's, it's going to actually is going to be challenging, but let's assume people are in apartments in cities and they're just going down to the street. So, okay. What I'm talking about is I think we're further away from the convenience of like what a human can do there now where i think we're gonna and i'm gonna give the other side of it where we're very close to is what they have in vegas now have you tried the tunnels in vegas i haven't been to that yet is is it self-driving or is there a person yes it's self-driving in the tunnels right and so basically there's no co-pilot there or host i thought they had a host in the car no no there's a host but i'm saying it's but they put it in autopilot mode they put it in supervised so So there's a safety driver.

26:13Yeah. But what you can see is that's a replacement for that Vegas monorail that they're very close to. So I'm just kind of giving you the bookends here. Okay. The hardest thing, getting to driveways in the suburbs, and I would assume you put snow, sleet, fog into that category as well. All of those edge cases. That's the most difficult. And the easiest is you've got a tunnel with no pedestrians guaranteed. Straight shot. Yeah. Boom. So you have a big area where you get in, it drives you through some dedicated lanes, it comes out, it drops you off over there. So that's 100 % done. And the other one is not even close.

26:51And you're not even close. Yes. And so where I think we land is bits and pieces now. So I think the bookends we agree on in the middle. Now, let me break that down for you. I do think what we're going to have sooner than later is you see this off the 280, you those car share parking lots. Yeah. So I think what we're going to have is car share to car share next. Ah, very interesting. Yeah. So I go to the 280, I park in one of those parking lots. For people who don't know, there's a car share lot on the 280, which is the giant freeway. Every time you get off, there's just parking lots. You park at that parking lot so that you could meet somebody and you can leave your car there for free.

27:36It's a giant parking lot. yeah okay so i drive there i get out there's an uh a tesla or an uber or a waymo waiting for me i get in it drives me to los angeles it drives me to stanford or whatever or drives me to the next one i get off there and then i do what it takes you to kind of well-known spots like that so it won't take you like right to your final destination but like some pre-programmed some pre-programmed area on the stanford campus it can get to yes this specific place so it's going to take me to university and this block, boom, it's going to take me to the Stanford campus. That's a very interesting idea.

28:09And that would be doable today. No problem, right? Yeah. And that's what I'm trying to say. That's kind of closer to the tunnel, right? Where if you're willing to drive from your house to the 280 and do that, it can take you to the Chase Center. And the Chase Center can bring you back or SFO or take your pick. And so I'm confident that that's achieved as well. Okay. You believe that's achieved. No brainer. Exactly. So I think that's achieved. And so what we're going to see is like sort of this progression of folks. I think we're going to see progressing from like those, those examples to then fixed within the city as well, where it's, it's like, Hey, you know, I'll get you close enough to your destination.

28:52The cities have already started making changes. Like, you know, if you notice in SF, like market streets close to regular traffic, but like taxis can drive on it. Yeah, only that. Yeah. You can't pick up or drop off unless you're a bus. So you have to get off of market to do your drop off a pickup. Yes, exactly. And then just go around the corner or whatever. So they're trying to keep the flow going, which they did exactly as San Francisco cleared out. So now Market Street's doubly empty. It went from being chaos to being empty. Okay, great. Hey everyone, quick shout out to our friends at Wistia.

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30:29So if you're looking to elevate your lead gen, streamline lead nurturing, and enhance user engagement with advanced analytics, Wistia is the perfect tool for you. Wistia is everything a marketer needs to create, host, analyze, and market video. Try Wistia for free by heading over to wistia.com slash startups. W-I-S-T-I-A dot com slash startups. give me your prediction as to because people think i'm talking about my book oh my god uber you know i got some big stake in it or whatever you know i do have a stake in it but i mean i'm not really talking my book i'm trying to i'm trying to call balls and strikes here so call balls and strikes for me let's talk about the ride sharing companies uber has a deal with waymo to put them in there yeah let's take let's move out from just tesla for example because there is a big debate.

31:14Actually, I want to go two ways. One, LiDAR versus not LiDAR, Tesla versus Waymo. And then I want to go to the networks like Uber's network, adding Waymo, adding Cruise, or those people competing. So which one do you want to start with? Let's start with LiDAR versus Vision. Okay. So explain to people what this debate is and if people have won it. Because Elon said years ago, humans are capable of driving cars in all kinds of conditions. Therefore, cameras, which can see further and can see 360 should be able to do the same job um and then waymo said hey lidar is necessary because you want to build this huge model and there's all these edge cases you know a plastic bag floats across or famously the white truck that went across the highway tragically and the person was watching harry potter and wasn't you know what might be shame on that person and and you know i don't want to speak ill of the dead but really can't be watching a movie with uh you know i tell you to stay vigilant so so take us through the lidar yeah what i would say is you can achieve you know full autonomy without lidar but what i will say so you're in the elon camp it is possible but what i will say is just like planes you can get into you know one of our friends original planes which can fly you you know from la to you know sf yep but the newer plane has like collision avoidance systems and all kinds of other stuff and so look both things can accomplish the same task one just has a lot more safety features and what i will say is it's not that they can't complete the same task but the one with the collision avoidance system and all kinds of advanced avionics that don't exist in the two seater plane yeah is the one i would want to be in is the one you want to be in right so if we're talking about safety you feel lidar will be some magnitude safer yes because it's it's tell us 10x 2x what do you think if you had to guess i'd say when we look at the final data it will probably be yeah somewhere between 2 and 10x better like not not like significantly better significantly better yeah now that won't matter if there's no fatality so yes do you think people will die in a self-driving car in the next year?

33:33A Waymo, a Cruise, a Tesla, whatever, in a robo-taxi. We haven't had a robo-taxi death. We had the tragic Uber one where the woman was playing Candy Crush. She got in big trouble and the safety driver wasn't paying attention. You know, that was just human error. So we take that one out. Taking aside human error, will we see a robo-taxi death? Whoever's robo-taxi it is, not picking any company, in the next couple of years as these things are deployed or do you think it's largely you know and it was the fault of the robo taxi not somebody t-bones it not yeah of course a deer jumps across the 280 tragically this does happen and a deer smashes into the windshield and kills somebody putting those kind of things the do you think there'll be a fault of robo taxi death in the first five years of this being deployed in the united states here's what i'll say i think we will not see a fatality in a lidar-based um system for um in the next two years okay so you don't think a ladder will have a death i don't think so but you does that mean you're saying you think a non-lidar system would could have a death i think so yeah still wow okay unpack that why why why do you think that You know, LiDAR, the systems that have LiDAR also have cameras.

34:53And so for all those things that you can't see with your eyes, the LiDAR is like an additional set of sensors, right? It's like the plane that has auto collision avoidance, right? got okay so yeah so the question is are we 99.9 safe in a non-lidar and 99.9999 five nines or whatever and we'll see you know one of the things i think that we're going to realize is in constrained environments we will have interventions we will have the cars pulling over we will have them causing traffic we saw that with crews and waymo already but what we won't have is fatalities and the people who will die it will be the fault of the humans and human failure i.e somebody jumping in front of one of these things or some biker you know trying to set a record going down some hill and the mission you know blowing through a red light or a stop sign because they're one on their bicycle hit some strava record or some nonsense okay very interesting now let's take the second one what do you think on a business basis is going to happen here.

35:58I said, I think there's going to be 10 people who figure out self-driving in different jurisdictions and different modalities, all in the same timeframe-ish, which I would say, you know, let's call it the same 36 months. And what that means is since we have a, it's going to take a while to roll these out. Even if you were the one who, you know, figured it out the 36 month and let's say Tesla and Waymo figure it out in the first, you know six months in that period the rollout is so long that there's going to be an opportunity for of those 10 players you know let's say three or four of them to compete and then uber and lyft have the option of the vendors who just want to sell their vehicles into a network of buying those vehicles and there are many at scale folks you know whether it's volvo or toyota you know more about this than i do who will have these available and they don't want to run their own network they want to sell into the existing networks is my thesis of that balls and strikes and accurate because what i'm trying to do is be just completely intellectually honest here as an uber shareholder and a and a friend of elons and tesla and a fan of tesla i own for this i learned through the ford experience okay is that the most likely winner here is the one that has like the closest to the uber model and what that really what what does that particularly mean?

37:21Is that the massive capital expense is taken on by the owner of the vehicles. Okay. Explain that. If you're trying to build a network from scratch and you're trying to own all the vehicles, right? Those numbers become very big, very quickly. You're spending billions and billions of dollars on the vehicles, owning those vehicles, maintaining those vehicles and doing all of that. The beauty of like sort of the Uber model is you can put rules on it for maintenance and everything else but all that's taken care of by the by the by the owner of the vehicle and so if i were to bet given everything that i saw the last few years it would be the uber model where people bring their asset into that is the one that's going to win which is what elon said with robo taxi when exactly it was how many years ago was that is before covid he did a preview of this yeah like i don't know is that six years ago or seven years ago can i share something we learned like during the the you know some of those days you know in ford which was many people that drive in ride hailing are not permanent drivers and there's a lot of really interesting incentives and i just want to kind of commend uber for doing this but you can go and get a car through a car rental agency like hertz and a bunch of other places which will allow you to drive and you really only have to do like 20 rides a week.

38:48And basically the rest of the time you can use the car yourself. Wow. Oh, that's very interesting. So I wasn't aware of that. I do hear these kinds of stories. So I'm, let's say lower middle class, you know, I'm a blue collar person, student. I do 20 rides a week. I make 10, 15 bucks a ride. i get you know whatever that is 800 bucks a month thousand bucks a month i don't know how much you're making on the average ride but the average is 37 yeah you got to pay her it's like 200 bucks you got to cover your gas and other things you pay okay so you're at 300 400 whatever you're in the black very quick yeah from some number of rides right if it's 35 37 an hour let's say 35 an hour let's say 30 without the gas 30 an hour and if it costs you i don't know 400 for the thing I've got to work 10 hours a month to have a car for the rest of the time.

39:40I never thought about it that way. Yeah. You know, there's another analogy. People use this service, Get Around and some other ones, and they rent their car out three days a month for$300 or$400 to folks, peer-to-peer. So, you rent it out four days a month for$100 a day. That's$400. And if your car payment was$400 or your maintenance and insurance, everything was$400 a month, whatever it is. I'm talking about you have like a used Toyota, Prius or something. You're in the black. It's pretty great. Yeah. So that's where I think like what gets underestimated. So that's where I kind of like the Uber model where they have the network and then people will bring their car to that network and put it in the network.

40:18And it doesn't have, you know, 10 hours a day and all that. It could do 20 or 30 rides for you a month and it covers your bill. And then the rest of the time you can use the car for whatever you want to do with it. Yeah. So this leans me to believe that Tesla is going to have a significant advantage over everybody because they have whatever number of millions of cars on the road, adding to it millions of cars a year. But 10 % of those decide to put in the network, which seems like a pretty good number to start. 10 % of a couple of million cars, three, four, 500 ,000 cars, very significant. Put them into the network.

40:51They start doing five rides a day. We started our conversation as the capabilities increase, where we go from the fixed route to carpool to carpool to full-on over the next couple of years, you can decide how you want it used. Now, talk about the other players. Waymo has decided they want to put their vehicles into the Uber network. You'd be able to pick, just like Uber does, yellow cabs, the livery cabs in the UK, Waymo. If they split the revenue from the Waymos and they have the other ones, they just have the largest network and the shortest wait times, right? So that protects them in your mind as a network business?