AI demos! Microsoft’s Windows Copilot, ChatGPT multimodal, Meta’s AI chatbots | E1821

0:00If every single thing on your desktop is recorded and could be leaked at some point. could be compromised. In other words, we know you're not just search history, you know, even incognito mode, whatever's happening on your desktop is recorded, whatever video game you're playing, you know, who you're chatting with, you know, you're starting to get into a territory where you are, it's Truman Show. This is the Truman Show. Your desktop is the Truman Show. Now just let that sink in. Are you cool with that, Sandeep? This Week in Startups is brought to you by Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business.

0:35Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. Twist listeners can get$1 ,000 off for a limited time at vanta.com slash twist. LinkedIn Jobs. A business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters. Post your first job for free at linkedin.com slash twist. And FitBod. Tired of doing the same workouts at the gym? FitBod will build you personalized workouts that help you progress with every set. Get 25 % off your subscription or try out the app for free when you sign up now at fitbod.me slash twist. It's Monday, which means Sandeep Madra from Definitive Intelligence is here to do this week in AI.

1:23It's our AI roundtable every Monday. The world's going crazy for it, Sonny. everybody tunes in mondays to see your demos and i know you've got a lot of demos lined up for us let's just get right into it enough with the banter they're here for one reason one reason only to keep up with ai and it is a full-time job for you and i to look at this stuff every week let's do it yeah it is and this week we're going to focus on big company demos and so what we always see you know this week in startups but yeah the big companies are having to compete with the startup so this time around fix siri no amazon fixed alexa well they did invest a few billion dollars into anthropic after spending about 100 billion on alexa so that's kind of crazy yeah all right so wait i got two of the big three uh what am i leaving out here no we did more last week yep so we're gonna do open ai we're gonna do open ai obviously 90 billion dollars i think was the valuation that was being floated last week that's a float we're gonna do meta with the whatsapp integrated chats yeah and we're gonna do windows copilot as well what yes windows copilot is out it's it's it's out if you can get your hands on it yes oh i see i see i see okay well this one i have to say you know as the host of the show i kind of feel like we need to start with microsoft oh okay all right the only reason i'm saying that is people forget that microsoft is dominant on the desktop to this day you know we live in this little apple bubble when you're in the tech business where you think somebody comes out with a think pad or whatever they call them today uh you know or a dell machine and you're like oh developer or a banker because you know a lot of the creatives use apple product out here in the bay area um but the truth is the majority of the world still runs on windows and windows i got a windows machine over here i use windows half the time my super powerful windows well i i use both my my practice has always been my best practice have whatever the latest hottest dell is because i like to have a gaming rig so i have a dell gaming laptop up in tahoe and then i have a dell gaming tower here uh at home and then i have a macbook air and then i have a macbook uh mini so i like i like to switch between the operating systems and since everything's in the cloud you can actually do that quite easily now i mean my my desktop windows supports iCloud i don't know if you knew that but you can have your iCloud drive there now the only thing you really can't have is iMessage so they that's the one blocker but when i'm on my uh mac i just have my phone in my little anchor cradle ready if i need to do iMessage and then i use a Logitech keyboard just for another quick little tip for those of you out there and it has three bluetooth buttons on it now okay and my second bluetooth button is my phone so i can hit the second button open iMessage on my phone in a cradle i keep it in this like little anchor cradle kind of situation i'll show you right here i'll pull it up on the screen so yeah okay this is my favorite anchor cradle because it has a little watch as well watch and you can put here your airpods airpods and then it folds up so if you wanted to take it on the road it's like a little tiny little robot but anyway um i connect my my logitech because i love logitech keyboards um i check my logitech keyboard to that phone just click that and i'll start typing a response to my thing and then i can click number one and go back to my desktop wow so it works just really seamlessly um but a windows co-pilot my lord i mean i could have there would be no it department if we are pc specialist which is my first drop title had there been one so i gotta see this i gotta see this but you're okay you got and you brought a device yeah i i went and bought like a windows laptop is the only way to really try it out.

5:07So let's get right into it, the Windows demo. So I'm going to share my screen. I'm going to go to the whole screen here. There we go. Alright, that's a Windows desktop. That is a Windows desktop. Beautiful. Kind of Windows 11 actually was one of my first times using Windows 11. I hadn't used it, so they've done a nice job kind of changing the start button. Search is integrated natively. But what you get here is you can see this co-pilot preview oh so there's a button on your task bar yep uh you still have the task bar on windows at the bottom and there's just a little colorful co-pilot what happens when you click on it you click on it and you get this right hand fully integrated and i have some stuff i've been doing and i did not have that out but um and so basically it's asked me anything and so you can be like uh turn on dark mode so let's just you know your it question you know people are going to have this oh how do we do it dark mode in my settings yeah uh you don't even have to say where is it in the settings you can just tell it to turn on dark yeah and so you can say turn on dark mode it says turn on dark mode sure would you like me to turn it on i say yes and there you go it turns it on so yeah you can um you know and so you can think about anything settings related how about you say how much memory does my computer have okay you know sometimes you want to ask your mom you know like uh you know i don't know what this is one of the first things the IT department might say, you know, like, Hey, how much I didn't think of that when I was doing more of the settings thing.

6:37And this looks like it's going to do a kind of a more traditional gen AI search, when it does searching for it kind of going out to the model. And it's coming back with like, here you go, like go into the settings app. Yeah. This is what I expected it to do. Yeah. But for some of the things like the one I just showed you, it's natively integrated, it like changing some of the settings and like they're just working through and it's still in beta mode but you know this gives you the standard way of getting it so i did a web search with bing obviously and it said hey and it gave citations it says learn more so it told you how to do it it didn't do it it's another thing you know when you're on the um you know when you're having it problems um uh you know would be really nice to know is how much disk space am i using and how much free disk space do i have okay so let's do that you know like even to this day you know this is going to do a search again so doing a search so i'm giving the windows people just so you know microsoft you're welcome i'm giving you the it checklist that i would go through here like uh because these are things that the co-pilot should know but this is also a little bit dangerous sunny because if i can ask the co-pilot how much memory this has etc um you know it just could be a little challenging but you're asking it to open your printer settings that's an interesting thing that it should be able to do that i'm going to guess it does that let's see oh hold on it's still it's still stuck in responding there's letting yeah it's going crazy here yeah and you asked it to open my printer settings and again it's searching for it so it's some settings are on um how about um open drudge report let's see if it knows it's a website so don't put in the dot com just say open drudge report okay let's see this would be a very interesting one if it knows like what you want it to do um so yeah open drudge report let's see if it does it or you know like open gmail or something yeah because this is an this is an action we want it to take yeah so it's doing searching so so far bad experience yeah so open it up.

8:45Okay. Yeah. Would you like to open it's asking us if you'd like to open your web browser. You can get to the dredge report.

8:57So it's basically queuing it up for us to click on the link. So you could have clicked on the link there and just open George, but that's interesting. And how about you use it was at Microsoft Edge is the name of that. So let's see if it can browser. Oh, my Yeah, see if it will close the browser. So instead of closing the browser by hitting the x let's have the copilot to close it okay see if it will close the browser and close my browser yeah you didn't say edge or anything like that so let's see if it does that see if it does that close my browser yeah see now i think they're probably there's going to be a lot of security concerns here sunday on like this is weird it oh it did say open app yes adjust volume which is weird as well that's weird yeah yeah okay interesting okay if you're a sas or services company that stores customer data in the cloud then you need to be uh sock to compliant you knew that from a third party and you need that third party to close big deals and if you want to get compliant easier and faster you need to use vanta v-a-n-t-a vanta makes it so easy for you to get and renew your SOC 2.

10:10On average, Vanta customers are SOC 2 compliant in just two to four weeks. Prepare that to three to five months without Vanta. And Vanta can save you hundreds of hours of manual work and up to 85 % of compliance costs. This is a total no-brainer. And Vanta does more than just SOC 2 compliance. They also automate up to 90 % compliance for GDPR, HIPAA, and more. You can't afford to lose out on major customers. We all know that. Listen, it's a hard year. Last year was hard. You can't lose those major customers because you don't have your compliance dialed in. Just work with Vanta. Get your compliance automated and tight, and tight is right.

10:43Lock down those big deals. Here's the best part. Vanta is going to give you$1 ,000 off. That's 10 hundies. Get$1 ,000 off at vanta.com slash twist. That's vanta.com slash twist for$1 ,000 off your SOC 2. They must have told you, like, here's things to do with it. So, I mean, having it be a persistent chat GPT for a window is nice, but what can it do that interacts with my Windows desktop? What can I do that interact with my Windows? And look, I don't use Windows day to day. And like, you know, what it's really meant to do is integrate in like to all your documents and everything else. So you can search through it.

11:17I haven't been able to try that as a brand new machine. I just wanted to give it a try. Kind of like the integrated experience. What I like about this. And, you know, this is you'll see some of the upcoming demos here. It's just it's just there for everything. Persistence. And exactly. And, you know, you've been talking about this with respect to your team and yourself. And so once this is there, it's overlaid on top of everything, you know, like you said, it's starting to be interact, integrated with some of the applications. So we can see the potential here of where this can go. And, you know, again, they have this in preview mode.

11:51So we probably have to give them a grade, but like, it's nice to see them have it out there. And this feedback will just continue to make it better. yeah i mean my grade is like i give them an uh an a for ambition yeah and uh a d for execution oh okay there's no execution here so far that i've seen that i can't do by just having a window open with chat gpt4 in it so it's great that it's in the toolbar but that's kind of like showing up it's table stakes i could put chat gpt4 in there it really there have to be specific use cases that they've come up with now the reason i bring up security is yeah you know if this thing is tied in to settings yeah and it's on the internet and somebody were to get access you know there there are all these videos online oh yeah on youtube of like people trying to scam old people to do things like if you got access to the co-pilot but you didn't have it on the top level of the screen but you were doing stuff with it you know you could have a prompt that does something pretty gnarly in here it's really fascinating that you bring that up and that's maybe what but it's interesting that it let me do dark mode but it won't let me change my pointer speed because that's like a very common question yeah but here's the thing dark mode there's no cost to it um so when you're evaluating what to allow users to do you just look at the threat level right like so if you wanted to reformat the hard drive or if you wanted to uh do a search of your documents like okay now we're getting into or passwords yeah you know that would be you know if you said hey um what's my windows password you know like it's not going to tell you that so um yeah but you know i think it's kind of useless that in this current form it's just a window that's open but it's ambitious and what i would like to see it be able to do is i'll give them a couple of ideas since um you know we did have the google bard team took notes and they reached out to us like they reached out yeah right away three or four people dm'd me and they're like we're gonna get here one of them was a little upset you i think you were cc and he was like listen my mom's really upset about me getting a c i've never gotten a c in my life you know there's some overachievers at google and i gave him a c they were upset um so i said work harder that's all but here's what we need to do for windows i need to know what i've been working on all this time um on my windows desktop so what i would want to say is something to the effect of um what was i working on last week what were the websites that i visited most last year that i didn't visit this year right and so it has access to my history you know what zoom calls have i done the value of this being on the desktop level and in the operating system level sunny is that it has a hundred percent access in some ways it's like a dvr of your desktop a digital video recorder of your desktop it should know not just my browser history but it should know everything that's occurred on my desktop yeah and it should know that like take for example if you were using whatsapp signal and um i don't know what's another messaging product but you know you're using a telegram yeah so let's say you used all three of those and slack you can it should be able to normalize those four and say who are who do i chat with most and it would know you have four chat programs and then make a list here are the people you chat with on signal people chat with on telegram etc or who should i invite to my birthday party it should say well these are some suggestions for who you should invite to your birthday party because look at all the different people you've been chatting with and you've been emailing with etc that's the kind of stuff you really wanted to do is to abstract the application layer and just have all the data every conversation i have across anything that's typed on the screen it has any news story i've read it should have so what do i know about fusion technology and what don't i know well if you're using your desktop all the time and it knows i've read these articles it knows those articles and the information is in it knows what's not in there because it has the corpus so that makes sense yeah like well you know it's it's an interesting thought i'll just add one thing to it like one of the superpowers of google over the last 20 you know 25 years right because it just uh they just celebrated their 25th anniversary was that it was an intent it was a window into the intent of people's minds and it's the only place yeah that had it because and now that's changing there's several companies that have access to that now that you know and that you know kind of the examples you're giving could be really powerful for for someone uh like microsoft to implement alongside you know these models that exist i think those are really good ideas yeah we had rewind ai on the program episode 1745 dan sirocca if i'm pronouncing his name correctly dan with rewind ai is building this like desktop dvr and this is scary as heck because what it's doing is it's recording every zoom call everything on your desktop so if you went to a site that maybe you didn't want people to know and this is i think something that everybody needs in corporate america to understand especially with remote work and i'm having this conversation with my team we're recording every uh investment team call so i had to tell everybody listen assume at some point this gets leaked or somebody joins the company and searches our archive of you know investor calls and then they leak your video interacting with somebody or they leak a conversation and then whatever you did the stupidest thing you did is now recorded yeah because in order to get the value from ai we have to give the corpus to ai now whatever was published on the web somebody hit the publish button but assume that every zoom is now being recorded and summarized assume everything you do on your desktop every single key will be recorded by ai and studied and this is going to be like the next weirdness that we have to get through as a culture and i don't you know like gps was one of them do you worry that people know where you are all the time because your phone's in your pocket and that you can be tracked everywhere no because the value of having gps is greater for me precisely now if every single thing on your desktop is recorded and could be leaked at some point could be compromised in other words we know you're not just search history you know even incognito mode whatever's happening on your desktop is recorded whatever video game you're playing you know who you're chatting with you know you're starting to get into a territory where you are it's truman show this is the truman show your desktop is the truman show now just let that sink in are you cool with that sunday well look i i think because you said before you were okay with it because of the value of gps yeah what i would say is like it's truman show and like minority report a little bit because remember in minority in minority report you know outside the stuff with the precogs it was about a society that understood each person like all the advertising was customized remember that's the first first time we ever saw that when tom cruise went up to some like a like a little terminal and it gave a customized ad and it was purely customize and everything they did so this is a version of the future that you know in sci-fi has been proposed before like i think overall i'm okay with it i think it just comes down to controls like i do think if you're you know doing something in incognito mode for whatever reason it is like it shouldn't make it into these systems and they have to obey that the problem is trust like i do trust microsoft more than maybe a random startup right because yeah of course they've been around longer they have more to risk and a startup will bend the rules and break the rules and we see abuse at startups in the early days facebook had to reprimand a number of employees who were stalking their ex uh in this case it's girlfriends um because it was male on female um data breaches there was a number of people and before they had the controls and and uh uber had a uh the managers of uber could watch for security reasons obviously what was going on in their city now that became hey who has access to that and you know famously it'd be like oh a politician is going from point a to point b what if point b is somewhere the politician doesn't want you to know they're going yeah yeah you know at a time and then they're coming home at a certain time like you literally if you think about your uber like you and i leave the club at 4 a.m and come back to the hotel like okay yeah people are like hey well why are sunny and jake out coming back from you know 4am encore club marquee or whatever you know it's like well because we're popping bottles let's be honest yeah we're having a good time we're having a good um yeah it it's a you know brave new world brave new world is a good way to say it yeah right um well okay so flip this this needs to go to satya nadella d what do you give them you're such a forgiving grader i feel like you're just giving them like a participation trophy no i'm a builder dude it's it's hard in today's world at the pace that these things are going what we've forgotten about is we're getting this stuff we used to get a windows release every five years and you get a new cd-rom yeah exactly Right.

21:33And now, look, OK, we're approaching one year. This November 30th last year is when chat GPT was released. Less than one year later, it's integrated into Windows. That's what I in a big corporation. And I've done stints in both like startups that have been acquired that have been there. It's hard to get things to move this fast. And so to me, I think I'm I'm really enthusiastic about the pace of innovation because that's what leads to us as consumers getting more. you know more so your letter grade is uh this one i'm going to say b minus it's okay so you're you're grading on a very gracious curve here uh we do want them engineers curve we want them to release stuff early and often so okay yes i'm just i'm just giving it the actual utility for the user i give it a d but what do you think microsoft if you we give microsoft a couple of notes here i came up with a couple you have any that you thought would be interesting that would be like a good next step for them you like changing to dark mode but what else would you like yeah i mean i i think you'll see this in some of the upcoming demos as well like a little bit more there's like a little bit of like a blank start problem with these right when when they first start there needs to be a little bit more like and you know the llms are good at that they need to kind of prompt you a bit more and to like you said like look at what's going on with your information your machine my next question exactly kind of get ahead of it a little bit hey can i help you with a search which they're uniquely qualified to do it's like this thing can read your mind yes so why isn't it reading my mind when you open it it should say here's some things i can do yeah i can change from light to dark mode i can find a document you can't find i could tell you who you're emailing with next year and you could actually click those and they're prompted yeah or if you're having some problem like we were going through the it support stuff hey it looks like you're having trouble connecting to your printer or whatever it happens to be right yes that's what it should be yes of your error messages you keep having this printer run out of ink yeah would you like to get a subscription on amazon to ink you know like that's actually a really interesting thing it could actually give you life hey i see you're searching for travel on google flights all the time you know expedia is ranked above google flights or vice versa would you you know you should try that or here's some other websites oh you read drudge report did you know about you know tech meme or inside.com here's some other ideas for places for you to go that's actually would be more valuable because they're in they're informing you of stuff that you don't even know to ask yeah and that's i think that's where you know what this whole next era is about kind of knowing what i want having it ready for me and kind of partly doing it for me as well i would like to hear them uh maybe say hey you're having memory issues you might want to upgrade your firefox because you're on an old version and the new version does better memory management or hey you know your zoom is breaking up you're on uh slow wi-fi did you know that there's a higher version of wi-fi you're you know or you've got a lot of collisions on your network maybe you should upgrade your router like this is the kind of stuff the it stuff where it could give you suggestions proactively looking for bugs and stuff like that viruses um but you know i have gotten a ton of um uh so anticipatory it support let's just put that in a bucket right okay everybody at microsoft would also add producer nick dropping in on the conversation go ahead famous producer nick if i was microsoft i would also add a prompt when you especially because they know if it's an enterprise device or not.

25:14If it's an enterprise device, start a prompt. What is your job role? What are your goals? So it knows, hey, if you're a developer and you're trying to work on your... Let's say you're in a giant Excel file, right? And you're doing something with Python and your computer is overheating, as I'm sure all of us have had before, right? You open a big Excel file and your computer starts making crazy noises. Okay. Well, guess what? Zoom is taking up a lot of compute. So if you quit out of Zoom, then maybe your excel file will run a little bit smoother it should be able to tell you that and if it could do that i mean it would be incredible yeah it could give you a suggestion as well hey i think that you're in the accounting department or i think you're a salesperson is that your role or give me your linkedin and it looks at your linkedin and now it's like hey i know your linkedin and i know who you're chatting with by the way did you know you have these 10 really important people on your linkedin i had a moment today where somebody was like hey this person would be a great lp for your fund i go to linkedin i look at their page and it was like accept their they had asked me to be a connection i don't know when how many years ago i never accepted it because i have too many coming in so this idea of like understanding your job role is just a great one nick and then how you like your uh stuff format because chat gpt only knows what i tell it and what i've interacted with it whereas windows desktop knows everything i do that's the big win so it should be building your persona over time hey i see that you're a knicks fan i see you're a warriors fan did you know there's tickets available for tonight's game at a very low price did you know that the knicks like it should know the knicks are playing the warriors uh you know or the sacramento kings and tell me that because it knows i read knicks content all day between my browsing history and my downloads folder yeah you know everything i mean my downloads yeah your download folder is pretty intense.

27:00I'm gonna leave it at that. Alright, this has been great. So Microsoft, the potential is life changing here, your execution is underwhelming. I give you a D sending gives you B minus. But I didn't give you a D minus is gave you straight up D. Creating a job and finding qualified candidates. It's so time consuming. Don't I know it? I'm trying to add five positions right now because things are going so well at the launch fund. But you know what, I have a secret weapon. And I'm going to share it with you Lincoln jobs. They're about to hit a billion users over at LinkedIn. So just think about all the insanely qualified people that are there looking for work.

27:39You just go post your role on LinkedIn, and you will be 100 % certain that you got access to the most qualified candidates. And guess what? First one's on us. That's right. First drinks on us. Go to linkedin.com slash twist and post your first job for free, you got nothing to lose. And that will give you that purple ring on your profile. You see that everybody's got the purple ring now. That means everybody in your network knows you're hiring, they click on it, and you'll get those friends of friends, right? Those are the really high quality leads that you want applying to your job because there's someone in your network who can vet them.

28:12So I did that for launch. And I do it for inside and we found so many amazing people at our company. When you think LinkedIn jobs, I want you to think better candidates faster. Let me say that one more time better candidates faster LinkedIn jobs will help you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to faster post your job for free at linkedin.com slash twist that's linkedin.com slash twist to post your job for free terms and conditions to apply we knew that this dogfight was coming bar dropped their plugins now multimodals here have you played with it i have and it's been pretty incredible is multimodal available to everybody or do you have to turn it on uh i think if you have enterprise so basically we're going to drop in right now and we're going to do a couple demos ourselves i'm going to give some credit just to the community who's done some remarkable ones which i think some people would have seen on twitter like the parking sign one and the find the waldo one but let's get going here so let me just get this window open um and we have a couple ones i think jayco will appreciate these a lot too oh okay here we go all right so i see you uploaded a picture of a hamburger with an egg on it yep and i asked a question how can i make this hey great then what you see chat gpt does is let me first take a look at the image and understand what you're referring to i'll display the image and so it basically loads the image up itself which you can see here is a very particular brioche bun with a little arugula and an egg with the weak yolk yeah we assume there's a burger patty under there i see some great cheese under there that's what a human sees yep and it says it looks like a delicious burger with an egg on top okay to make this burger with an egg you need typically need the following ingredients and so it lists out the ingredients here patty bun lettuce egg right and then it gives you the instructions wow so it's like kind of trying to reverse engineer it you give it an image and then it works backwards so it knows what's in the image it knows that you want to make it so it gives you a recipe and this is multimodal as we discussed image first yeah uh you input an image and then you work backwards so here you did another image yep and what did you ask you with this one well i know this is a big thing for you these days jay cal after you've been on the ozempi and workout regimen and so i'm a little ozempi yeah people saying i have ozempic face now i don't think it's that bad folks but i mean maybe If I get another 10 pounds, I'll have a zumbik face.

30:39And so I gave it a limit to analyze the aesthetics of this outfit and estimate the cost. Oh. And so here you can see here, it uploads the image and it says, first, I'll take a look. Oh, okay. So that seems to be like a step it takes when you give it an image. It does the take a look. It's almost confirming with you what it knows. And then basically it goes, based on the image displayed overall style, it says modern and leans towards smart, casual or business casual look. i would take that's a smart casual look i agree it's a person wearing a pair of slacks with a blazer not a suit he does have a college shirt on but he has gone full chamoff he's down at least three buttons and he's and he's definitely thinking about going for the fourth yeah uh color palette is muted to neutral okay that's right common choice for outfits i'm uh aiming for versatile versatility and a timeless look yeah personal uh shirt blouse jacket blazer trousers and then it couldn't find any accessories it's very interesting that it knows it's trousers with a jacket or a blazer as opposed to a suit so i mean i know this is obvious for all of us but for men's fashion it is a very different look to combine separate pants and jackets so you can buy trousers and you can buy jackets or you can buy a suit and this is a you know when you start mixing matching tops and bottoms that's when you can get yourself in trouble and the suit abstracts out of way but it knows that this is smart casual now did it bring up the fact that there's a hanging pair of uh tortoiseshell sunglasses in his pocket did it notice that uh let's see the accessories i cannot pinpoint any specific accessories from the image so it missed that it missed that okay so that's something a human got but it didn't because i know everybody loves like parasol i think they call that tortoise shell that kind of like that yeah that look that that look um yeah but you can see how this is powerful and then you know one of the things that we should do here is just go to you know greg who's the cto of open ai he's been sharing uh some great posts and so you know here is by the way peter yang just shout out because we talked about this on all in and he was thrilled that he got a mention but he didn't get a um uh we didn't say his name on the show so i'll just say that now so he gets it yeah and so he yeah so basically what he did was like we've all tried to park in some ridiculous uh parking zone that has multiple signs with you know different exceptions and uh chat gpt was able to work its way through uh the reasoning of all these um different conditions around parking and there's an image here with like it looks like you know maybe five different um parking conditions and it determines that you can park there for one now we're starting at 4 p.m basically yeah it's like one of those new york crazy like don't dream about parking here 17 different ways and you're like yeah but there were some other interesting ones that i just want to give a shout out to which i thought were super fun uh before we go into the next one i liked most i think you just passed it was this code one um where somebody was drawing like a ux and then it wrote code oh yeah yeah that's not that one there let me do this one first i'll go to code one but finding waldo which is uh pretty interesting you know we've all done where's waldo you sure did you see this children's book uh yeah the children's book and so uh it was pretty incredible as as waldo's located near the center of the image he's standing next to a table so in this image that i have up pulled up here yet you can see he's right there is yeah yeah Yeah.

34:15And then, yeah, the code examples were excellent. And so if we go back to, yeah, so what McKay does in this particular example is basically he has a whiteboard drawing of a workflow for his application. and it um you know talks about like sort of um how to how he's gonna like a like sort of a sign up form that then leads to an output of like a site or which goes to like a kid's version or an adult version essentially and um you know he takes it basically talks about taking an email a name and then has chat gpt generate the code for it he then takes the code sticks it into a um you know, ID tool and then has it working.

35:04And so this is very, very powerful and advancing very quickly. You know, who thought last year when this came out that we would be able to just do a whiteboard image and from whiteboard image concept. And think about the number of tools that have been created, J.K.L. You've probably even interacted with these before, right? Tools for mocking things up and just having, you know, designers just create like - Yeah, of course, like InVision, Balsamic. Yeah, exactly. exactly you you've used them there's tons of these yeah yeah now you can wire framing tools basically workflow tools figma obviously yeah and so here you know it's explaining you know like the logic flow etc and i guess chat chp4 understands this and then can make it code and you know where this is going folks is you know in the future sunny and i will have a third co-host here.

35:57And if we were talking about building a piece of software and having a brainstorming session, chat GTP four would be a guest would be a participant in your zoom call. So just imagine next year in the zoom call is an AI, and that AI is taking notes for you. Well, that's already happening, right? That's built into zoom. Now imagine that AI, one of them is a developer, and the developer or the UX designer, when Sonny and I said, wouldn't it be good if it did this, Wouldn't it be good if it did that it actually made the spec it wrote the spec like a product manager it designed it and it wrote the code and then sent it back to you was showing it to you in real time.

36:32All right, you know, I've been on a health kick over the past year, and you know, I care about data driven solutions. And if you listen to this podcast, I bet you do too. So let me tell you about FitBot. This is a data driven workout app that blends machine learning with exercise science FitBot creates custom dynamic workouts programs based on your fitness goals, your experience. And most interestingly, to me, the available equipment, let's say you got a bunch of kettle bells, or let's say you're at some, you know, sparse gym at a hotel, or you're on vacation, you got nothing. Well, FitBot will maximize your fitness gains by varying the intensity and the volume between your sessions and leverage the equipment you have or don't have, as the case may be.

37:14You can customize the length of your workout, what muscles you want to target, and so much more. So let's say you want to get a 30 minute workout in, and I want to do chest, triceps and abs, but I'm staying at an Airbnb, there's no equipment. FitBot can create a perfectly optimized workout for me based on these parameters. And it'll do it for you to check it out. It's amazing. The design of this app is extraordinary. I was able to invest in it. That's how impressed I was with it. Fitbod takes the guest workout of fitness, just open the app and start making progress. You deserve it get 25 % off your Fitbod subscription or try out the app for free when you sign up now at fit bod dot m e slash twist that's fit bod dot m e slash t w i s t for 25 off so now when we talk about um job destruction now you're starting to see it compress so if you didn't understand or believe when sunny and i told you hey there's going to be whole swaths of jobs going away.

38:16Now you can see it. Imagine and sometimes it just takes a couple of steps for you to be able to visualize it. But it used to be that somebody would be in that whiteboarding session, or somebody would be the note taker in a meeting. The note taker is gone. The note taking from zoom is better than a human can do today. So just to Eric and his team at zoom congratulations anybody whose job function was to take notes that's gone and that usually would be what an hour or two for somebody and they would circulate the notes from a meeting that function's gone it's done it's gone it's gone today now in corporate america how many meetings occur per week you know how many meetings do you have at definitive intelligence a week would you say well we try to limit them to a couple you know you're really kind of three or picked off of what yeah what you know toby and folks have done at shopify and eliminate them but you still have to have you know kind of one a day you go to one meeting a day two meetings a day well customer side more but internally i try to limit it to one or two so even with customer side okay so now you're talking about 10 a week 10 meetings a week two hours to summarize them and take notes is 20 hours gone from your company 20 times 50 weeks is a thousand thousand hours a week the average you know person theoretically works 2 000 hours at a startup it might be like 2 500 and a corporate america might be 1500 so you're either getting rid of a half a job or a job yep just with that one function now you take ux and design you take you know that portion of it i think you're going to cut that job or at least half the job or instead of having three people do ux design you're going to have one is that what you think is happening here yeah and if if i could just like talk about something that you know john chambers who was a long time ceo of cisco and i started my career at cisco i was at a startup i didn't know that yeah yeah and you know he had this saying about the pace of innovation he wrote a book recently and he was talking about it and you know what he says like look at the cycles of of what we've seen and he kind of just used like uh operating systems and he said like you know we used to have a kind of mainframe operating system cycle was 10 years.

40:25Then we went to Windows and it became five years. Then we went to apps and it became every year, right? With like iOS, right? You get a new version of iOS every year. And so you're already seeing like a 10X compression and how fast the underlying systems that you're innovating on are kind of moving. Now the pace of innovation is down literally to minutes and hours, right? You can sit somewhere, map something out, have a prototype created uh you know deploy it into one of these cloud like you know to pick your you know replic colab whatever you want and so we're really compressing the pace of innovation faster than anyone's seen before um and that's why even you know i'm surprised i'm giving those grades i'm like wow like i can't believe this big company integrated this thing in like one year because we got so used to seeing new releases every year now the expectation is quicker so yeah so the expectation is quicker the ability to launch new things is quicker because of ai yep um and competition is forcing people to go faster so you you have this and then i think consumers and this is a bit i gotta give uh open ai credit for release early and often and be embarrassed and they did not care about hallucinations and they did not care about being wrong and they did not care about the legal issues so beg for forgiveness instead of asking for permission is a long-standing tradition you know in technology it can get you in a bit of trouble it's open ai has got a a wall of lawsuits to get through on all the stuff they trained all the images they stole all the content they stole to do this and you know they're going to have to work through those but to their credit what's that open to closed open to closed i mean these are just details as vanil kosala has reminded us sunny these are just details i mean i i i literally is going to be my mantra whenever anybody challenges me on anything they're like hey jay cow when i get pulled over for speeding on the 280 next time the guy's going to be like you were doing 84 you know jay cow and i'm going to be like those are just details details i was driving safe big picture i'm in a safe car i'm a great citizen i create a lot of jobs i'm attacking there incredible oh so incredible um so but i think to really help people visualize this they took a picture they gave it to chat gpt for it did stuff but i want you to imagine a robot being in that room if you will an android like from blade runner and the the android's in the room and it's participating in the meeting that's the little gap that little gap is going to be a big change now we i haven't heard one person announce that yet but if the note taker was live and the note taker was interjecting in the meeting and said excuse me i have three action items and i've put them into the the chat room will you confirm that those are actual action items or let me know if you don't want them as action items if it did that in real time or at the end of the meeting like imagine if the person at the end of this podcast said hey just some notes on the podcast um you mispronounced this word and you forgot to uh thank this person you know whatever you're like whoa they're acting as a producer of a podcast right the producer ai is coming um it's all really interesting and this is why microsoft and google have massive advantages is because they're just involved in your day-to-day life so much more than or just one level beyond that jay cal like which i you know you and i have had this debate before and i think you're coming towards my side on how fast things are going to happen which is because you know i was always calling it like more like 18 months what if the feedback that you gave microsoft on that demo was you know taken through a note-taking ai and then another ai analyzed it built the spec for it and then another agent took that and wrote the code for it hmm yeah yeah so you're saying multiple agents like yes what do we call that baby gpt or whatever they were calling in the early days but there's a few different ones yeah exactly auto gpt auto gpt baby agi there's a few of these yeah yeah so that's actually very interesting so let's think about this for a second there's real-time interaction with humans and bots yeah and then there's bots going off on their own side quests and building stuff and so that's two different modalities for us interacting with super intelligence yeah totally yeah like it's us seeding something for them and then them iterating on it like the way humans do but sort of endlessly until it gets to a result and then presenting it back to us see this would be very interesting if i could say um hey i'm raising my fourth venture firm you've been involved in all the meetings you have the database of all the folks uh give me some strategies every morning for what i should do next and this would be like a coach you know i've always thought of like oh i wonder if i should have a coach or something yeah uh you know for either as a performer as a host of podcasts or should i have a coach you know as a ceo or an investor and i never actually took the time really to do too much of that i've tried it a couple times uh with folks but you know i i do recommend it to i think first-time ceos but this could be like the coach that's like watching you this is where like a google or a slack could be a really interesting coach like imagine if slack started telling you hey you could be more positive or zoom started telling you you know your tone and i guess gong does that and some of those other that category of products yeah um good segue jay cal you always do this it's like you have a master of the segue you are the master of the segue because you know we're kind of there so you you were asking about um you know wanting to go on walks so inside the app version of chat gpt now which i just have open here yeah um you'll see if you enable in the settings like voice chat it's not voice input and you got to go in the settings and you'll get this little voice chat here and i'm going to click it and you're going to see this pop up and so this is conversation mode so explain the theory of relativity to me like I'm a five-year-old.

46:51All right. Imagine you have a toy car and a toy airplane. If you push both of them, the airplane goes faster than the car, right? Now, let's say there's a little clock inside each toy. The faster the toy goes, the slower. So we've seen that example before, but when you're in that mode, it just goes into a constant chat. and so instead of listening to a podcast jcal so what i'm going to challenge you on your next walk on your next you know and you're doing these like walks now your hikes put it in that mode and basically i don't have this mode now wait you're saying this is under settings yeah you click the three dots and it may also be an enterprise feature i think it's enterprise yeah and then you go to your subscription says enterprise not chat gpt plus oh mine's a chat gpt plus it says new features so down about in the middle here jake on the settings says new features oh i don't have my settings page oh wait where's the settings page color okay i see color scheme new oh new features yeah yeah oh voice conversations found it was two levels deep okay so now i have voice conversation oh then let me yeah okay we go so now uh oh i hit that headset mode in the top right yeah and it's just it's now you can talk to it i'm trying to lose weight and I like to eat a lot of protein, what's a healthy lunch option for me?

48:17Okay, it's thinking. We want it to be faster here. You might consider a grilled chicken salad with lots of leafy greens and veggies. Add a vinaigrette made of olive oil and lemon juice for healthy fats. This gives you a good balance of protein, fiber, and healthy fats. Would you like more suggestions or perhaps a detailed recipe? I hate chicken. Can you substitute another protein?

48:49Of course. How about a tofu or tempeh salad instead? That's a terrible suggestion. I like dead animals. You can make the tofu or tempeh and some soy sauce and spices, then grill or saute it. Add it to a bed of leafy greens, mixed veggies. No. That's a horrible suggestion. Does that sound more appealing to you? That's a terrible suggestion. I want dead animals.

49:18I got it. How about a steak salad, then? Okay, here we go. And interestingly, there's a tap to interrupt. Sirloin, tenderloin. Slice it thinly and add it to a... Do me a favor. can you talk three times faster in this chat?

49:41Good suggestion. I can't, I can't control the speed of the text to speech, but I'll keep my answers brief for quick comprehension. How about a grilled steak salad with veggies and a light dressing? That sounds great. And low in carbs. What do you think? That sounds great. Is there a way for me to order that on Uber Eats?

50:08certainly you can find a variety of restaurants offering steak salads on uber eats just open the app search for steak salad and look for options near you make sure to read the ingredients to ensure it okay so you know it sucks again d i give it a d uh sorry it sucks um it's too slow it's too wordy but no i'm gonna actually i take it back i'm gonna give it a c plus okay okay i'm i know i made a mistake there it's a c plus i think the interface is almost perfect yeah um it should let me interrupt interrupt i don't like tap to interrupt i do not want i want to stop this thing because it talks in a monotone it's too freaking slow yeah i need to stop it because this thing is like dealing with c3po and i'm han solo i don't have time i gotta navigate in an asteroid field shut up 3pl and give me the data i need and and what so i think there's an efficiency thing here if this is going to take off it's got to be more efficient period full yeah but jcal what you just talked about there in terms of interrupt interrupt mode and like speed up mode those are features that engineers can bang out in like a week a day yeah uh yeah i mean sure yeah sure and once you have that i mean think about podcasting or think about like how what you're listening to how that's going to fundamentally change i what i was you know like um that's what was on my mind like all the stuff i want to learn about now i can do when i'm on my walk or doing a workout i think that's incredible just you know have it there and really listen to it that you know yeah i uh i have to say this is again starting we're starting to see the future here it's revealing itself by just turning over cards you know we saw the flop that was language models now we're starting to see the turn which is hey these agents are going to be hanging out all around us and working with us in real time that's the turn at the end of year one because you're right chat gpt4 exactly right november of last year now what's the river going to be here if we're going to take a guess at the river what's the final card turnover because i think we are in agreement language models was a flop yep you turn is these bots and multimedia modal like it's just they're they're interacting with us their peers what is the river what's going to be the final card here agi that's exactly what i was going to say why explain what it is and how it's going to work and then how far are we from it all of that um so what it will be is right now and it's sort of like building on what the feedback you've been giving it right it's like everyone should understand the profile of jcal right without you know when you want to launch a product you want jcal you should you should know it should be very brief it should be quick you should be able to speed things up and so personalization will be the key thing to agi in that you don't really need the generic notion of agi but like something that can is built custom for you um and the experience is providing you doesn't require you to continually tune it and give it all this feedback so i think we'll see that first.

53:16And then, you know, beyond that, the, you know, there's a line that, you know, people start to cross where it gets scary, which is like, it already knows what you have to do and it does it for you. And think about your day, J. Cal, and how much of it could be automated. Right. By like, you know, it really could, if something was monitoring you every day, not to say, you know, what you're doing isn't valuable, but there's probably 80 % of your day that could be automated by like an agent that's replicating what you're doing. And then it allows you to either work less or refocus your energy and i think we're going to get that and you know in terms of time frame i still stick to 18 months you'll be there and there'll be like a you know you're talking about you know we already have these like inside the zoom someone taking minutes there'll be like a virtual jcal and interacting with the combination of launch and inside and doing 80 of what you do pretty amazing i feel like we're getting very close to the end game um and these agents right now we have to go interact with it the agents are going to be proactively and in real time interacting that's going to be year two and then i agree year three will feel like agi uh general intelligence basically uh and you know the general intelligence i guess is how do we know how do we know that we have achieved general iron man yes right and jarvis jarvis yes i think movies do a good job of telling us like what we want and how it should play out jarvis does an incredible job yes right and you know if you watch the iron man movies even they evolved like what jarvis was capable of doing it also did something really terrible when it merged with the um uh ultra ultra right and then age of ultron yeah yeah and then you know try to destroy all humans but let's assume that doesn't happen um and you know the rest of it was incredible right uh you know how it interacted with tony how it helped tony you you know wasn't asking so many questions it was interesting that you mentioned that because in the early ones he was telling it like do task do this task give me like this armor but then by the next one it was kind of like informing him like hey this is happening uh we have here's some strat it was being it was more strategic as it went on and then it became kind of its own entity and that's when the problem happens so shout out to john favreau and and you know the the folks who constructed that world because they did actually take you on that journey i think it would be something to look into of um how long you know that tech took to be adopted by people and i think you know it's one of the things that incredibly frustrating to me is i'm trying to get people on board with this in my organizations and you know it's like i'm pushing them and dragging them and prodding them and asking them in their daily reports to you know link to and share links with everybody of what they're using it for and you know some people are you know old dogs don't learn new tricks i think what's going to happen here is there's a lot of new tricks coming folks and if you don't learn these tricks you're going to be an old dog even if you're young even if you're 30 years old and you don't use this technology you will be putting the old dog uh you'll be put out to pasture you know they put those old dogs down site that was like why don't you google it or something when yeah let me google that for you there's going to be let me gpt that for you well whenever someone asks me some basic kind of question i just put in a chat gpt and just send back the chat gpt share link now uh let me just respond with that i just respond yeah yes because i mean uh i did that recently with my team um i shared them a link yeah um And, you know, as the data becomes, you know, more integrated and structured, as we saw with BARD's integration, and now they just put Bing back online.

57:05The thing I noticed about the Bing being turned back on in ChatGP4 is that it's faster and more stable now. Remember it kind of crashed every time and it wasn't very good? That's why they took it out, right? Because I think it was slow. Oh, was that the reason? I thought it was copyright issues. I mean, it's probably a combination of things, but I think, you know, the user experience wasn't quite there. And it's much better now. And I think it, it took sort of the, well, you know, even Google had announcement last week around robots, TXT, you can have it say, you can cert, you can use me for search, but not for AI.

57:36Right. So I think everyone was just kind of going through that compliance world as well. But I do think when it comes to building these systems and having LLMs interact with like existing systems, there is work to be done. We even see that in our day to day. And, and I think it's, you know, it's, it's happening in the background really, really quickly. well here you have it folks uh here let me share this with you here i think you know this is where the browsing is actually working pretty well um i just asked it what are the top five news stories today and um i think it's pretty good summary uh new york alleges trump committed over one billion in fraud during their trial nobel prize uh ukraine's taunting elon musk and a me to twance elon musk post a meme mocking zelinski over 100 amazon dolphins found dead due to heat and drought um and uh it did put look at that it did put a um and it did this from the reuter site um and it did put one citation did you notice that um put it's like all the stories were cited directly from here too i see three of them at least yeah oh four of them it just took the you know what it did it went to the reuters top news page and just pulled it out there so that's interesting um it's going to um yeah that must be like a top news page that i found so interesting we're getting sonny can i ask you a technical question about these llms and how useful they are so i found the most useful for us for our use case is claude too by anthropic the reason being size exactly their context window i think is like a hundred thousand tokens or more you could basically put in an entire novel and it can break it down for you chat gpt's i've read is somewhere between 10 to 20 000 why is claude so much larger why hasn't chat gpt or open ai made theirs larger and um what is stopping everyone else from doing that is it just a matter of compute or it's just the way that they structure their llm or have they figured something has anthropic figured something out that open ai hasn't um so kind of a couple of good questions in there let me try to summarize so i think um chat gpt uh in private beta has 32k or if you're on like you know if you're an enterprise customer then they have 32k available um through their apis and so everyone is increasing i think it started with like 8k or 6k so we're already starting to see that people can increase the the context window so it's not a it's not a limitation i think it was just focus and the founder of anthropic was like the head of engineering for or head of research sorry for open ai and i think you know like it happens in startups like his idea was like there's some core principles that you know came out of the google papers and his thinking was the value would be um more towards creating a bigger context window where others probably went for bigger parameter space it's just sort of uh and remember we talked about this before think of like more parameters is more neurons, like the more powerful the brain is.

1:00:43And a context window is just like another, like, I don't want to call it a feature, but it's just like another element of making these things. And they focused on taking that in. It's just, when you do that, it's, it requires sort of like a different initial approach. But my guess is within six months, we'll see all of the large models, including the open source ones have the super large context windows. It's, it's not like, it's not a barrier that's like no one else can catch up to. right so maybe i just have a really niche use case for it and you just use the claude that's like available generally it's not paid or anything yeah so so anthropic is just free and anthropic was the one that amazon just put four billion into am i correct correct and interesting google put a couple hundred million in just a few months ago before that so that's fascinating yeah and yeah and then what about this model yeah we just yeah so we transcribe, if someone's coming on the podcast, we transcribe their recent interviews, right?

1:01:46Sometimes it's an hour long podcast interview. We get all of it into a transcription and we upload that transcription as a TXT file into Claude. And it gives us like the top 10 to 15 bullet points of the most interesting things they said, the things that are key takeaways. You can't do that in ChatGPT because their context window isn't big enough. So that's why we use, or I use Claude for more things than I use ChatGPT for right now. It's really interesting because I do think that these are all stealing content from the same web pages. Like I asked it, who are the best business authors to have on my podcast?

1:02:18And it did Simon Sinek, Daniel Pink, Malcolm Gladwell, Brene Brown, Seth Godin, Amy Cuddy, Adam Grant, and Patrick Lencioni. Okay. Now I asked ChatGPT for the same exact question, right? uh top business authors and i think they're sourcing from like the same pool because it gave me almost the same exact list well we just really talked about this right jacal one of the there's not just one but there's a few core data sets that everyone's trained off of one is common yes common and so and my guess is much of that is coming from common crawl rather than something proprietary. And this is why the discussion around the need for real differentiation rather than like technology, which Nick was talking about, will come from data sets.

1:03:12And that ties back into like, you know, when we demo the Google extensions and things like that, the proprietary data will end up being a lot more valuable than technology innovations, because I think we're going to see technology innovations happen that put things on par very, very quickly. Um, and the thing that's going to be very interesting is the common crawl. Um, states very clearly, we didn't produce the crawled content. We just found it on the web. So we are not vouching for the content or liable if there is something wrong with it. And this is the thing, you know, the, you have to find out each of the websites.

1:03:58sites, terms of service, not just because you used common crawl doesn't give you a pass for the terms of service of each of those sites that they crawled. So you must keep that in mind. And when you're building these language models, and I think this is going to be, you know, the, the common crawl terms of services where you're going to see a lot of these lawsuits, you know, make their bones is, and I think that's going to be the defense of some of these language models. Anything else happen? Just as we wrap up here real quick that you wanted to note or mention? Well, we've got meta. We can do it now or we can save it for the next one.

1:04:34Let's just do a flash meta. Flash meta. I know that they added. We'll flash the meta there because they added in WhatsApp an agent, right? There's an agent in WhatsApp. How do you add the agent? How do you add the agent? Okay, no problem. I'm going to show you guys right now. I'm going to just do it via my phone here. You open your WhatsApp and you're going to click create a new chat. Okay. And in your create a new chat, you can say new AI chat, which is my fourth option down. New AI chat, there it is. I got it. Yeah. And then here. Request early access. Okay. And here what you can see is you have the general AI bot, which is the same as sort of what we've been playing around with, right?

1:05:13Like meta AI assistant. And then there's these personality bots that the face of them are well-known people. This looks like, you know, Padma Lakshmi and Tom Brady. snoop and chris paul's down here um but they they don't seem to have anything to do with their um personality do they have permission to use those images like amber is clearly paris helton yeah i think when they did this announcement they did say they partnered with these folks i don't think they could use but like what you're not getting is like a conversation with um uh you know tom brady or you know um you know i guess this is kendall jenner here you're um you're getting sort of uh like an interesting chat it's very feels like very much like character ai and um and but you're not like really like they haven't taken the essence of tom brady and put it into one of these bots but it's an official partnership with them and so i'll click on brew um you know confident sports debater and then it'll start a chat and then at the bottom you know i can kind of uh it gives me some like i like this like kind of blank canvas yeah some prompts so i can ask about the next how good are the next gonna be oh okay i'll do that next okay whatever top qb is the season yeah uh so you know it spits out an answer which is great um let's see it says josh allen patron was leading the pack but okay that's pretty accurate but aaron rogers is out so that's kind of it's it doesn't have that because Aaron Rodgers tore his Achilles right okay what do you think about the Knicks this coming season hmm oh wow this is interesting too yeah wow and so now I wonder if it's going to go out to the web and have fresh information