AI itineraries, newsletters, doodles, and more with Sunny Madra! | E1778

0:00We're now on the elevator going up. yep this is an elevator going up it's going to go to the thousand story which is agi it's going to go to the moon let's consider the moon as agi where are we right now are we at 10 000 feet 100 feet 30 000 feet where airplanes fly nobody knows exactly on the way to agi but i can tell you we're on the elevator we're on the elevator going up the speed is that much different you concur oh 100 this week in startups is brought to you by dot tech domains has a new program called startups.tech where you can get your company featured on this week in startups go to startups.tech slash jason to find out how notion just launched notion projects which includes new powerful ways to manage projects and leverage the power of their built-in ai features too try it for free today at notion.com slash twist.

0:56And OpenPhone brings your team's business calls, texts, and contacts into one delightful app that works anywhere. Get 20 % off your first six months at OpenPhone.com slash twist. All right, everybody, welcome back to this week in startup. Sunny Madra is back with us. Sandeep, the co-founder of Definitive Intelligence. They provide AI enhanced data analysis for your public and private company data including autonomous data science agents right that's the thing we're going to talk about and we've been doing this this week in ai kind of episode every week because sunny and i are down the rabbit hole this is not a drill it's for real and i am making some great progress uh over at inside.com on my secret ai projects making some progress i'll show those to you sunny when i see you next week and let's get right into it stem or die time we will show you the demos we're doing at youtube.com slash this weekend or you can just search for this weekend startups and find this episode uh or uh if you're on spotify we publish a video on spotify and if you search for this weekend startups on itunes either are two different rss feeds one for video one for uh audio but we will sportscast it as always so what do you got for us today all right yeah i didn't even know that itunes did video i gotta try it there i always just watch it it doesn't do video but okay you can publish a second fee with your video file so they actually do support video but you have to do a second video file and then spotify decided they would come up with their own proprietary way you know because they bought the ringer and call her daddy and all that stuff yeah and joe rogan so they came up with their own proprietary way to do it so the industry is kind of in a little bit of a i don't know and then twitter i see our stuff going on there yeah so for twitter we will publish the full episode now shout out to elon for supporting that and they have a mini player so i don't know if you've had that experience and then the mini player will play on your ios device yeah outside of it just like youtube does yeah it just you can be in other apps and watching you be in other apps so that's really a breakthrough so we are independent in i am what a lot of podcasts do is they only send you to the feed because they want to move up the rankings we gave up our rankings on itunes for distribution for distribution both we gave up all in and for this so we would probably be both pockets would be three or four higher but we get you know you see the views the view counts are public you start getting tens of thousands of views on the youtube one i'm sorry on the twitter ones you get 10 that tens of thousands on the youtube ones youtube is hundreds of that we get hundreds of thousands yeah already i mean it's this shows you know this this week in startups is not meant to be all in a lot of people are like this week in startups is smaller than all in the topic of this week in startups is a niche topic yep of the the more we explain the acronyms and and dumb this down the wider we get but we want this to be for the top five percent of the tech audience this isn't for everybody this is where we're kind of going deep if you know people who watch this i have friends who watch it i don't understand what you're talking about or i don't understand half of what you're talking about that's okay yeah you'll you'll catch on if you're truly an entrepreneur if you're not an entrepreneur there are other entrepreneurial podcasts that are generic this is deep dive yeah and we don't do the politics there's no politics here yeah i mean if you want biden biden biden ukraine ukraine ukraine hunter hunter hunter trump trump trump all right demo time demo or die okay so this one is cool and i think by the way i said you want to do this live when we get back uh maybe in august yeah if i got it we could just do like an ai demo or die kind of thing let's do it yeah yeah so this one you know i in fact i think jaykel you talked about this particular use case of creating an itinerary using chat gpt yes i have a company doing this yeah so these guys kind of take it to another level where um and so what's it called so this one's called co-pilot to trip okay and so pilot to trip yeah and so i've got one queued up here already and we can do another one if we want to but i can say as you know it starts up like it's a chat interface and says i'm traveling london from san francisco it says great london's a vibrant city how many days will you be there i say three days and then it comes up with a three-day plan and what it does it kind of a little bit more interesting than than chat gpt is it it creates an itinerary puts it on a map and then gives you a link to all like kind of a little bit more detailed link to the different um activities it's suggesting and so great and it has it in this chat view and i can click over here into a itinerary view that you could you know print out old school style so i see it's saying culture day three culture of london start your day with a visit to tate modern 9 a.m free 11 a.m explore the vibrant neighborhood of shortage itch shortage uh discover a street art scene free enjoy a delicious lunch at borough market visit fascinating natural history museum take a relax this is a little bit too much for me take a oxy boat ride at reaching canal have a memorable dinner at duck and waffle amazing yeah and it's you know i did it one's exploring the city the next day is about royal stuff and the third day is about culture and so you know i i think they do a really really nice job and this is like i think an interesting way to think about, you know, a lot of people are like, oh my God, like people are just creating wrappers on top of OpenAI.

6:25And, you know, I think that does exist. But in this case, these guys are creating additional value where, you know, OpenAI probably doesn't go in terms of getting this level of depth and curating experiences. And then they can fine tune their model over time as well. That's one thing that OpenAI has been heavily talking about, you know, the last couple of weeks is they're going to enable a fine tuning API. So you can take all these, you know, customizations that you're building around your prompts and everything else and fine tune the model into it so that your results are different than the general open AI result.

6:57Okay, that's interesting. Let's pause on that. Yeah. Open AI, the company is creating a fine tuning model for their API. So programmers who are using it will then be able to fine tune it and fine tuning here might be, hey, we only want travel locations. Hey, we want to know the cost of it. hey we want to block out things that aren't travel yada yada i wonder who gets that learning is that learning accrue to the chat gpt 4.0 model or do you own it so the way they've been explaining it is that you own it that's something proprietary that you're doing with the model and you are fine-tuning it for your particular use case and you're you know kind of uh you know same way you would do with prompts but instead of having to do it with the limitation of prompts you do it sort of over a longer set of time and say hey we you know eliminate these things add these things focus in this type of way and so that's something that becomes proprietary between you and open ai and i think that's so that's an issue because what i saw previously happen was yelp had that relationship with google search okay and over time google watched what yelp was putting into the index they watched how they semantically organized it they told yelp hey can you put the opening and closing hours and can you use this kind of data formats you know and then eventually they launch the competitor google so i would just say eyes wide open to anybody with opening eye that if you give them the reinforcement data they're likely to include that in the core model and then you might be teaching them the roadmap to train their data to then replace you so yeah i will say though jcal they do a pretty good job of being very explicit to say they have a do not train as part of if you if you have an enterprise agreement with them they explicitly start with a do not train and and then they you know make it very clear that they will not train off your data and so i think that's an intro you know and i think they've done that because of the concerns like you've talked about that have happened in the past it's just when you're building on another person's platform understand that what you consider proprietary and what they consider table stakes will change over times so i'll give another example yeah uh when the iphone came out people created calculators one of the best-selling apps in the app store were calculators and uh flashlights that would turn on your camera flash permanently you uh built apps and then you saw and note-taking apps were very big like evernote if you were to look at the apple notes app today that comes with your iphone and the early versions of evernote eventually i think the notes app has become probably on parody with the original version of evernote um the notes app within ios notes yeah now you can share documents in it it's got you can you can put any you can put any data into evernote but yeah i would say evernote 2.0 is the equivalent of it so yeah what apple did was they said we will always be a little bit behind you you will just very slowly add features the features we saw in um communications apps yep uh wound up in iMessage right yeah so it's almost like a joke people who have android or have other platforms are like yeah you know ios builds natively into their product what five or six years ago existed existed as a standalone app so just be wary of that you'll have a little bit of a lead you can always build a vertical thing yeah and who knows if chat gpt will take that same approach and yeah attack these companies but yeah co-co-pilot to trip is great yeah but you're still supporting companies doing this i think we have you know that ecosystem still has a chance to break out right before you know the native what do you think i do i mean i think and i think this is a type of use case that folks should go after right that it's not just a straight wrapper around open ai they're creating like an additional data set some curation some other things that are there You know, the way to think about it is, say, let's think about Expedia or Kayak, right?

10:55What are those businesses today? They were businesses that understood how to interact with the travel API that was provided by like Sabre. Yes. And then they built an entire set of experiences around that. And now, you know, obviously, anybody can go to Sabre and build something, but those guys built businesses. I think it's going to be very similar with OpenAI, where as long as you build some curation and proprietary data sets, which is, you know, they're trying to do around experiences, I think there's, you know, there's still solid opportunity to not get consumed by the apex aggregator. dot tech domains is introducing a new program it's called startups dot t e c h dot tech let me break it down for you basically they will use this minute or so of ad time to shout out an awesome tech startup that's using the dot tech domain today's featured startup is called deal maker dot tech so let's hear about deal maker dot tech basically they're making fundraising simple for founders that sounds good to me their platform handles all your documentation payments and more and their upgrade plans even give you access to marketing experts and sec licensed transfer agents who will help manage your cap tables records if you're thinking about raising around go check out dealmaker.tech today here is your call to action if you want to get featured in this ad go to startups.tech slash jason to learn more startups plural dot t-e-c-h slash jason don't wait go there now get your dot tech domain like i have and go to startups.tech slash jason today and now let's think about google bar yeah uh if do you think google bard if we go to google bard and we say hey give me an itinerary for uh my trip to london yeah and it's a give you the same itinerary you say okay book me tickets for big ben book me tickets for get me a reservation at this restaurant and then do this for me uh do you think that their intention is to have that built into google bar and i i think i know your answer yeah i think um they will want to own that consumer business yeah let's see let's try it here and let's see what it comes up with we have google bar open here i was going to use it for a different example but we have it look at the end of the day the the thing about travel is it is um it's highly monetizable right it's been probably in the top three or five monetizing areas of the internet since because there's transactions that are big exactly and so i think you have to really you know take a step back think will they will they not do it no they're going to do it the point is like you know and look this is incredible right we have a startup over here in this tab that created this really nice exploring the city royal london and cultural and here we have you know sort of the top tech company google with unlimited resources resources inferior and and look at their kind of morning arrive and check hotel afternoon take a bus get a delicious meal at a pub right and so look can they bridge that gap for sure but i think you know this is what entrepreneurship is about and maybe if these guys do a good job or the company you're supporting is a good job they get acquired and this is what makes it in there so i think yeah this is really an interesting time that this is not you know this is interesting and it does a half decent job but it's nowhere near as good as what the co-pilot folks have done here yeah and and so you have to be prepared i think as entrepreneurs the best advice we give people is build a sticky service where you know you're putting in your notes maybe collaboration um and then you constantly have to be adding new features and studying the customers and you have to be bigger than the faster than the incumbents yeah i guess the question is proprietary data set like what they like i like how they've done that you know the london royal london and get you know explore london and then you know cultural stuff i really like because that's curation that they're doing on top of the models do you think at some point they should create their take one of the existing llms that are out there and train their own and then they would have even more control of the destiny because google let's say this company starts succeeding yeah and they raise 25 million dollars and they're making three million a month they got 30 million dollars in revenue they got 25 million in cash in the bank would you advise them if you were an investor on the board yeah would you tell the founder hey go take um what's facebook's uh language model llama go take llama yep go find a bunch of proprietary data sets cut deals with them go start building your own data sets and then you know do this you know it's fine that you built on chat gpt4 it's fine you built on google's api but you really want to start investing in a proprietary data set?

15:31I think it's a really good question. You know, the way I kind of give advice to startups is crawl, walk, run. And which phase are you in? So in particular answer to that question, not in the crawl phase or the walk phase, but in the run. So in the crawl, you know, you'll just be burning your energy and cycles trying to do that. And it's a lot of heavy lifting to get that off the ground. Although it's getting easier, you know, laying chain over the last couple of weeks, I've added much easier support for multiple LLMs, but you want to be in the walk or the run phase, mostly in the run phase of your startup, where it's really working, it's scaling, you've got a lot of customers and revenue, that's when you want to get to that.

16:09So when you have customers, revenue, and resources, aka money, and developers, then you kind of do that. You can build on somebody else's system until such time that you think giving them the data might be problematic. And that's really, I think, my concern. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but if you watch a lot of the things that people were building on top of the facebook api they rug pulled everybody yeah you look at a company like apple they wanted to have a thriving ecosystem you look at a company like youtube they want to have a thriving ecosystem so it's unknown right now if google and chat gpt for us but two examples want to be an api provider and they want you to own the customer relationship or they see themselves as owning the customer relationship and they are the sole source of customer interaction.

16:56If we were to look at the two companies, what does your gut tell you five years from now, will these both be consumer products primarily, or they both be APIs, or will they be both? Well, they both have a little bit of conflict, right? Because you have Google's cloud business, who is offering Vertex API, which is their LLM platform, which has Google LLMs and support for other LLMs, most of them outside of OpenAI. And so in that model, if you show up as like a GCP customer, they're saying, hey, kind of like Netflix and AWS, right? But on the same side, you know, Amazon has Amazon Prime Video, which competes with Netflix, which also runs on the same underlying infrastructure.

17:37So, I think you're going to have these scenarios where your service provider, in this case, like your cloud, is going to be offering you primitives that you're using, but may also be competing with you. And you have to, and you know, what does netflix went on content user experience algorithms and so they don't really worry that they run on aws in the same you know in the same way that you know amazon prime video does because they really kind of win out on a better user experience there and content and everything else they're doing yeah so this is going to be the key case uh you know 20 bucks a month for chat gpt4 yeah that's a big number doesn't seem like a big number but that's that's not an easy consumer number that's like wall street journal yeah you know the information you know like you have to be a deep insider to be able to for 20 bucks a month 30 bucks a month for a service for an enterprise and even enterprises they like to pay eight bucks a month for slack not 25 right um and so it's a very 300 a year is a considered purchase it's not a mass market product google though they own consumers and that's their business and they own advertisers and i see this as the ultimate advertising you put together somebody's dossier for their trip and you have a google wallet you know in there or the credit card information yeah they're going to start confirming these tickets i believe yeah so that would lead me to um you know be thoughtful about how much value you're providing if you can't provide in the specific vertical more value than google can yeah that could be uh you could be running in front of a freight train yeah it's going to be competitive but i do think like when i see like this example that we just showed i think startups are innovating really fast and coming up with better experiences and kind of get out there and monetize users create those you know the simplest experience like zero friction clicks to buy and like that doesn't exist in co-pilot yet today but in the co-pilot to trip but i think the faster they do that the better off they'll be yeah okay what do you got next on our list of demos this one's interesting because this one is like a mix of using two ais together one from google and one from these folks so this is a service uh called hoppy copy hoppy copy yeah h-o-p-p-y copy c-o-p-y yeah and in this case they have a bunch of different creators but they have a newsletter creator and i know this one's important because i really like the the daily uh inside newsletter i get and we got you know some props on that recently in one of our private chat.

20:09Yes, one of our friends. One of our friends. And so, what this one does is it's a newsletter creator. And how this is interesting is it wanted some details. And what I did for the details was, so it said, hey, who is this from? And it said, hey, give me a little bio. And so, what I did was I went here and I just said, Jason Calacanis bio. And then inside my Google, I have this enabled now, which is their Gen AI. And so, I'm just doing a search here for the folks listening. And so it says, do you want a generative AI powered overview of this result? And my, my, my search query is Jason Calcanic bio.

20:43And, um, it does a toolbar or something. No, this is Google. This is just Google. Google. This is the Google labs experiment. Yeah, exactly. So you can turn this on. Yeah. You have to go to that Google. Are they calling it sandbox? Is that the name of it? Yeah. Turn this on. Um, it's, I think it's called a Google labs, right? In Google labs, you go and turn this on. And then inside your search, you get this, any search you do, you can kind of pre-pen the results with a generative AI result. And so in this case, there's the standard results below. Wikipedia is the first one for JCal. But up here, what I see is like sort of a summarized one, right?

21:22Which is, you know, JCal is an American entrepreneur, angel investor, you know, your birthday here. I hope that's accurate. And yeah, the book. And, you know, it's even got your net worth on here. Yum, yum. Okay. great but you know i'm doing great you're doing great wow uber stocks up yeah exactly uh and it talks about you know it does a pretty good job so yeah i mean it's my wikipedia page basically yeah and and i didn't have to go there so i copied that over here and basically that's what i dumped into the from and then it said uh you know who is the target audience of this and i kind of went back into uh there and i said uh audience of the inside.com newsletter and i did the same thing i hit generate and basically um you know it says here are the details of the audience for that and so again i don't know where it got this from but uh it's hallucination it's not available anywhere but yeah sure okay but well maybe tell us is this accurate to any no okay so yeah dangerous um but i don't think that's accurate yeah no okay well let's we we should check it but anyways yeah because like i'm i was wondering where it got it from because i don't know if you're publishing like you know where the audience is from i'm trying to think if there's a sales document it could have scraped yeah uh it's possible but uh unlikely all right and so uh but anyway i use that because you know i didn't write it myself and then it said topics or interests of this newsletter and i said latest tech news right that's what the inside uh newsletter is about And then what it does is it creates like the sections and then you can have it write them.

22:56And so obviously it wanted, you know, a little overview, you know, of Jcal. And so it wrote this little blurb here. And so this is the newsletter on the, so I'm in the UI here. And on the left is the proposed sections on the right are the ones that I'm putting into it. And so on the left here, you know, it's got like a unicorn spotlight that I generated. And then I can, I can push that over into the, you know, into the document, which I have here. on the right hand side and it's got other suggestions i can do a tech news roundup so if i click this generative right button it'll go and it'll go off and it'll start like kind of coming up with the topics for it to talk about and it's got a whole bunch of different things that come up at startup spotlight here ask jason anything recommendations yeah exactly so you know exclusive offers basically this will be built into substack or beehive it's basically these are prompts yeah that will help you brainstorm what to write in your newsletter so this has previously been done by a newsletter consultant yeah or uh just a general writer who reads other newsletters or a consultant might give you this information hey here's some ways for you to brainstorm doing something interesting with your newsletter yeah and you know they just make it super easy um you know to come up with this ask jason anything section yeah and you know you can push that over into the into the document and it makes it kind of over there and i think they've just done a really really good job of of uh you know like it even came up with the baseline q a for this section for ask jason anything yep um and look i've never really done a newsletter you do this as part of your business so i'll hand it over to you here and say like you know how do you think about this and how many people work on this now and could you guys leverage this Well, you know, what we do at inside.com is we have verticalized newsletters and we have writers.

24:47I think people are getting paid$70 ,000 a year. Yeah. You know, it's above average for a starting salary at Business Insider. The starting salary at Business Insider is like 50K, 55K. So we call them analysts at our firm. They analyze the news. They put the top seven news stories in order of importance and they summarize it with bullet points, a format that Axios, I think, cribbed from us. Or, you know, maybe people just come to the same idea at the same time. I'm not sure. um so that is a pretty cool format um it really involves two things one is curation going and finding the most interesting stories in the world and two summarizing them thinking about the reader and getting them through the newsletter as quick as possible that was my premise this is built a couple of million dollar a year business at inside.com with you know i think we have 30 newsletters it's a nice business it's an incredibly hard to scale business and it relies on advertising people will pay for a newsletter like um casey newton's let's say or somebody's voice barry weiss if it appeals to them and it's like biased and when i say biased it has a point of view i shouldn't say biased if it's you know uh got it so platform is casey newton's eric newcomer has one so you can you take a top writer they can get to thousands of paid subscribers couple hundred my premise with inside was to do it for verticals the problem is people aren't willing to pay for that because it's not enough and so but it's enough to get an advertising business going and so what i've been brainstorming on and grinding on it's a little too soon to announce is how do we get how could ai help this right and it's obvious that writers are now taking stories and putting them into chat and saying summarize them so if you were to take a story right now know and cut and paste it and say just give me these bullet points it would not be as good as our writers in my estimation would be 60 as good 70 as good when will it be 100 or better i don't know um what do you think well you could probably get it to 95 if you just did the work and said if you took the corpus of um inside data yeah and said here were the stories and here were our summarizations and use that and going this going back to earlier conversation to fine-tune an existing model to say this is the format in which we summarize right there's some you know flavor there that you know you obviously inspired and the team runs with i think you could get to 95 results pretty quickly how would you do that um you would with a prompt or by no you would do this with like creating your own training set right so you'd have the you'd have like say two sets of data, right?

27:31And in many, kind of many iterations of it, one is the original article, and then your summary. And you do that for, you've done it thousands of times or tens of thousands of times. And you would feed that into this, you know, the fine tuning APIs of these models and say, hey, this is how the inside.com voice summarizes long form articles into our bullet points. And then the - How many articles do you need to train it? The more you give it, the better. And then what you would do - baseline is for it to understand i'd say like a hundred okay got it yeah and then what you want to do is on top of that once it's done that and then as you have it generate new ones you want to give it what's called like reinforcement learning and say this is good this is bad so further over time it's also learning that the it's what software and platform would you use to do that i mean like all of the large scale llms that have apis support this now got it and this is tying back to that, this is that fine tuning API, right?

28:32And so this is where you would do all that in the fine tuning API. Now, you can do this outside of the models as well using kind of other frameworks like Langchain. And it, you know, and kind of vector databases to create like a similar experience. But I think the best results will come from the fine tuning API's of these LLMs. Fantastic. You know, I run everything on Notion. It's incredible. I've talked about it here hundreds of times. I talk about it on Twitter. I love Notion. It helps me run everything inside our company. But the most important thing, it turns out, it's not just documentation.

29:06It's not just reporting project management. We are increasingly doing more and more complicated, detailed, and collaborative projects. And listen, we are putting on a 200-person event entirely on Notion. Sales, pipeline, AV, checklist, schedules, all of that in one place. And Notion is about to make project management even better. Today, I'm excited to share that they just launched Notion Projects, which includes new powerful ways to manage projects and leverage the power of their built in AI features to Notion Projects combines project management with your docs, knowledge base and AI so you can stop jumping between tools and stop paying too much for them to Notion is the critical tool that everybody's using and startup land and big companies are starting to get into what I know because I'm starting to have them share collaborative documents with my team.

29:54So here's your CTA. Do your most efficient work with Notion projects. You can try it for free today at Notion.com slash twist. That's all lowercase letters, Notion.com slash T-W-I-S-T. When you use our link, you support this show and all the people who work on it to bring you all these startup lessons, incredible guests, news programs, AI, all the great stuff going on here. So go right now to notion.com slash twist i think this is the gonna be not the future of journalism because in journalism you have to call people on the phone so i've been thinking about what is a journalist right yeah they should be asking the who what when where why that was the original training you know and then you interview people who witness something you research it but what is journalism today journalism today is like i got the who what when where why from tweets yes and then i crafted a story based on tweets or emails to my inbox like that's kind of what journalism has become in the digital era journalists don't pick up the phone and talk to people right uh very few of them do that uh and when they do it's considered like whoa that's crazy i don't know if you saw the san francisco chronicle sent two reporters down to is it honduras or nicaragua where are the drug dealers where do they claim the drug dealers in uh the tenderloin are from oh like mh17 that whole kind of thing no it's not mh17 but they did this incredible article okay where they went to this country um i think they're honduran okay and they found the town where this was all occurring and uh it's it's honduras and so this hometown of san francisco drunk dealers so there's this one area there all of the mansions and when i say mansions i mean like an average house in america homes a regular home in texas like a strip home have warriors logos the basketball teams on the outside of the houses of the rich people they have san francisco 49ers it turns out these uh folks uh from honduras who came here to drug deal then take the money back and then they um build themselves mansions and on the gates they put 49ers logos and the bay bridge wow and they went there two journalists went there for a little dangerous assignment and this is going to win them a pulitzer i predict um that kind of journalism that's not getting done by no so what i think is like really interesting is um how how much of journalism or could journalism be augmented right we talk about copilot so what's the journalism equivalent of copilot from you know uh what's the journalism equivalent of of uh github copilot well you know it's interesting that you say it and so i i hadn't thought about it this way till you gave that example and what's you know what probably this will force happen is i think to your point journalism has gone in a direction where it's mostly summarizations and it's not the um yeah and it's it's not sort of original report not original work now if ais can do the summarizations really well like we were talking about it'll force journalists to go back to first principles and create better content because that's exactly what's gonna happen yes and i think that that's really interesting because you know it's it's not super exciting when someone is just taking a set of articles and summarizing it and then you know putting it together for me it's like when they do the real work like what you talked about what you showed there that's what is you know why i subscribe the new york times or wall street journal i want to read your reporting exactly yeah i think that's worth paying for aggregation is not going to be worth paying for and so that unless it's some incredible form of aggregation you know if the aggregation was so good that you know it knew your next story based on your previous behavior and like a for you type algorithm like tiktok yeah you know maybe on the margins that would be interesting uh like okay you've you've read these five stories we think this is a six most interesting one with you based on feeding in your click stream or how much data you put on something but so anyway i'm deep in the rabbit hole if anybody has any ideas of how journalism and ai will change jason at calacanis.com will take any free ideas or thoughts you have uh that's my email for life what's your next great demo all right okay let's keep going here by the way i think bias is the other thing that i think you know could be interesting and i've been thinking about as a vector awesome so this is another you know interesting kind of um demo that stable doodle yeah stable doodle by stability ai which is they create one of these uh image generation models and uh i want to talk about two different things here.

34:45One is sort of the capabilities. So we've always, you know, done this in a meeting where you're doodling something and say, I really need like a chart that shows something like this, right? And I'd say, you know, they'd kind of say, this is an example of a chart that's rising. So I just doodled a chart here for the folks that are listening. We do this in meetings all the time. And then I gave it a quick description of what I'm looking for. And then I hit generate. And what it will do is it will generate images that are, you know, generated based on that chart. And this could be useful, you know, if you're doing a presentation or something like that and you're not able to quite describe what you're looking for, you want it in a particular format.

35:26Holy cow. Yeah. This is really good. Yeah. So I started drawing the worst drawing of a bulldog ever. Oh, wow. That is like, you know, the jowls of a bulldog. And then I used English bulldog as the prompt, but it got the perspective i was looking for yeah and like this is pretty good yeah that was kind of the perspective i was looking for yeah um and this one's not bad either yeah and uh you know not bad um that's what the doodle helps with because like you could type that in one of these generators but it'll give you a bulldog and a perspective that you didn't want right like you wanted like a headshot with you know kind of lying down and so um so this is a new addition to their model and i just said all white yeah and so now i got uga yeah amazing i think uh you know this is a superpower again right where combining the you know human ability and augmenting it in this kind of way because you know i think a lot of people have been experimenting with the prompts they get frustrated because they don't get quite what they want and then they can't fully describe it i think what you just did there with the bulldog was a really good example i think the voice interaction would be go a long way if i could be talking to this and i'd say that's a good bulldog but i want it all white and can you make it a little more wrinkly yeah and i'd like it to have like a more of a smile to its face right yeah i don't want to typos and prompt i just want it to change as i speak yeah and that's where i don't understand why we lost the voice interface to chat gpt or to ai yeah siri and alexa were the start of this but we don't have it actually you know a working yet here is like an image my guys just created man with umbrella in rain next to river you know like for a first shot not bad but now what i want to do is fine tune it yeah by talking to the air so i would like to encourage people to build voice interaction here so this can move faster yeah i think this is a perfect example where talking to a computer doesn't make you look stupid yeah like if i say you know like hey siri call this person i don't feel stupid because it feels like it's going to be accurate yeah when i ask it to order more coffee from you know or alexa to order more coffee it never gets it right yeah but this is an example where talking to a computer because of the chat gpt and language models could actually be good i'd like to have a talking shopping experience with amazon yeah where i just talk to amazon on my desktop or my phone hey i'm looking for a gadget as a gift for sunny to thank him for being on the show um i want something that's in the 500 range um and that's fun and interesting boom yeah and uh then i say oh something more designy you know and up the budget to a thousand you know yeah i think we're just living off kind of uh biases from past bad experiences because yes you know and now we're past that and i think the interface is voice right and you know bill gates has kind of always said this for a long time um and i think we're just i mean i think it's a great idea like to start that way and then have kind of the back and forth between voice and you know sort of like that that's the superpower kind of humans you know like amazon does this already i open up amazon and it's like order things that you ordered in the past or here's some things you might like so they're really using ai on the back end obviously yeah you know and they know that like i i've ordered some coffee 10 times in the last 10 years or toothpaste or deodorant so they're upselling me all the time you know imagine i came there and i was like and it was like hey do you own any pets and i'm like yes what what do you own i own two dogs or what type of dogs do you own oh english bulldogs how old are they oh one's two one's well what are their names boom now because i'm talking to it and it's just changing the screen and it's like oh do your dogs have any behavior problems i'm like yeah they run away from me oh have you tried a shot caller to train them oh have you tried a clicker and you know doing treats or do you want to order this book about this that's the kind of interaction i want to start having i want it not just to anticipate what i want but i want it to interview me yeah and that's going to be the holy grail are you still using your personal phone number at work at your startup in 2023 stop such a common mistake founders make but open phone has totally rethought every detail of what a business phone should look like in 2023 open phone makes it so easy to do this and so affordable that you have no excuse and you really don't want your team using their personal phones for business why well it could get creepy people start texting people on your team it could be that they leave your company and the salesperson has all of these text threads going with all your clients and they bring them to your competitor do you want to deal with this nonsense you don't i can tell you open phone is amazing because we use it our sales team our ops teams we use it daily we also started using open phone for angel summit communications it's rated number one on g2 for customer satisfaction and let me tell you those g2 rankings those are dogged battles if you win that you really have to be the best twist listeners love open phone my sales team uses it ops team uses it customer support uses it and uh you know what's great about it you can create a shared phone number like we did for the angel summit with multiple employees being able to field those calls and texts and keep it all sorted it's affordable at just 13 per user per month but twist users are going to get 20 off that already ridiculously affordable price for six months at openphone.com twist and if you got an existing number open phone will port it over at no extra cost head to openphone.com slash twist to start your free trial and get 20 off and it's interesting you touch on that because that is the you know we touched on this before i think in previous episode which is open ai's big focus is personalization because every time you go back in open ai it sort of resets from and you have all your history but the history is not tied together and i think that is the next unlock we'll see and that's when we'll start to see the kind of use cases you're talking about multiplayer mode yeah of course yeah like i want to be in there with my event planning team for all in summit or for the angel summit and i want to just talk to it and when i would go in it's like okay all in summit is 70 days away uh where are you at what do you want to work on speakers marketing and ticket sales the website or uh you know the parties oh we're gonna work on the parties okay uh which part of the parties the location the food the entertainment i want to and i asked it the other day i was like because the first theme is going to be like a james bond casino royale kind of situation i was like what themes would you do for this and what activations would you do and i gave it a role you're a party planner you're pitching somebody who's a really a hard to please customer i put in there and you're gonna have to sell them on these ideas give me 10 great ideas for activations it's like a photo booth yeah uh you know casino games like roulette and i was like that's exactly what we're planning and i was like those are obvious ideas give me more and then he gave me some other ones it's pretty good higher actors who can play james bond and i was like oh that's interesting yeah that was in the back of my mind let's get that going nice yeah that's exciting i mean and like you said you want to keep that contextual in a multiplayer mode and i and look i think that's less than six months away i think these you know with the rate things are innovating these are not things that you know we're i think that are too too far away for us yeah awesome next one what's your next one yeah okay this may be the last one for today and i got one more after that but we can save for next week so this was one i was really impressed by so i'm just pulling up uh you know billowall's thread because you know he did the hard work here and this is a little bit of a nod to the enhancements by um uh bard last week so they they um added multimodal which means you can give it photos and have it give you explanations and so So I thought this was really groundbreaking in terms of - Okay, on Bard, Google's Bard, bard.google.com, you can do multimodal.

43:33Yes. I can give it an image. Yes. Got it. Okay. An image of a tweet, just an image straight, and you can give it like sort of a screenshot of anything you take. And so what Bilal did here, and I just want to give him credit for this, so I don't want to recreate it is he took some recent memes. And so, here's a meme of, you know, that Chris Heard tweeted, we're so excited to return to the office because of culture and it shows like an empty cubicle. And then what he did was he turned around and he asked Bard to explain, you know, explain why, you know, why this is funny. And Bard writes an explanation.

44:14And this is pretty incredible right it says and it explains it's funny because the cubicle is bare bones and nothing's in there but yet we expect people to come back to work for a vibrant culture that is really impressive uh that it's able to kind of extract that you know kind of humor and corporate culture knowledge from that image so what do you think of that jay and there's a couple other examples here that we'll go to this is uh why the writers and the actors on strike um are i believe and listen i'm it's been pretty clear i'm not a fan of unions i'm a fan of everybody fighting to get the best deal they can and a competitive environment for labor just like there's a competitive environment for startups i understand some people disagree with me on that but as a high performer i would rather negotiate the best deal for me than have somebody else negotiate for me your mileage may vary you may have a different explanation um yeah this is why the writers are underestimating their value overestimating their value and not understanding how quick this is or the writers are smart and the studios are smart and that's why they're in a standoff if you're a comedy writer and you see this explain why this is funny you should be able to understand that it can do the reverse eventually if it can explain the joke to you it could make the next joke okay these explanations i went i saw that when it went viral that thread and it nailed it over and over and over again it explained the joke yeah and so this is why this is a good one j cal right yeah threads versus twitter daily downloads right you know obviously shows twitter downloads not really increasing because they didn't do anything and threads was going nuts downloads are a flat line because twitter's been around for x number of year so everybody's got it installed already yeah and then this is this explanation this is an image that shows a number of daily downloads with you know threads on twitter the graph shows a significant surge or 30 million on july 5th but then it has declined the text in the image says it's over which suggests the author of the image believes that the threads has failed to compete with twitter yada yada it's incredible it's like it's really really interesting that uh and then this is supported by the data in the graph which shows that threads has not been able to maintain the same level of popularity as twitter it is i mean this to me is like really really the next level stuff um and and it's just getting started you know i just had ryan from i just recorded an episode with ryan from qualtrics um and you know we were just talking about how this all started in november december of last year yeah end of november yeah so we'll be at the one year anniversary of this basically at thanksgiving yeah um in this first year this has been a chaotic inspiring and never-ending uh series of wow uh and it's not ending folks what you have to understand and i also just had tim urban from wait but why on tim urban made the famous image that said like here's progress and it's like a slow slope of progress and then there's a human and then it goes straight skyrocketing up you know classic hockey stick style and it says you are here guess what we're now on the elevator going up yep this is an elevator going up it's going to go to the thousandth story which is agi it's going to go to the moon let's consider the moon as agi where are we right now are we at 10 000 feet 100 feet 30 000 feet where airplanes fly nobody knows exactly on the way to agi but i can tell you we're on the elevator we're on the elevator going up the speed is that much different you concur oh 100 yeah like and look even between november and today the capabilities that we're seeing in the examples that we're just showing here the clip art doodle yes that's my point yes explanation are like what was happening in november was blowing our minds and now what's happening in july is blowing our minds even again we got on the elevator yep at thanksgiving last year when this came out and at that time i told everybody in our company if you're not using this every day you can't work at this company go buy it for 20 bucks get chat sheet before everybody get on the train get on the elevator we're going up and uh you know i i think i asked my team i i like to talk about how i manage my companies sometimes people find that um helpful i told my team now because of share gpt um uh being built into chat gpt's little share icon and then people can pick up your thread and start working with it yep um i said include your links to your share gpt yeah in your end of day report so as a remote company we do a five minute start a day you say what you're going to work on in slack we trust you to do the work we're not monitoring i don't do keyboard clicks uh although i do have some data it's interesting to think about um and then at the end of the day i ask you to reply to that and say what you got done and just share it with the team so everybody knows five minutes in the beginning a day five minutes in a day and then you get to work from home yep the other thing i added to work from home is you got to come to a stand up with your camera on and be dressed for work and you know yeah showered shaved whatever i mean i technically don't know if you're showering or whatever but you have to be presentable on camera i guess is the ask yep so at a certain time you have to start work a certain time you got to end work and you got to say what you did i think that's reasonable and you get to work from home totally um and uh now people are starting to include them and somebody did a search for the sales team of hey all in has sponsorships this time around we're going to try to sell a couple sponsorships yep and in the sponsorship stuff they just said hey what are other conferences that compete with all in summit or other big tech conferences and business conferences who are the sponsors put in a table put in a csv and uh you know we don't have the ability to compare it to our pipe drive which is our crm but eventually i want to be able to just say which of these companies are not in our crm or just i had somebody doing this already who are the advertisers on other business podcasts tell us if we've ever talked to them yep that'll be automated you know yeah again like we're you know i'm i'm surprised it's you know that's less than three months away that type of functionality so yeah i mean i i'm like where's pipe drive get to work like you know integrate with a plug-in they just need to do an open ai plug-in if they had an open AI plugin, we'd be done already.

50:38Exactly. Correct. All right. Let's go for a final demo. Great job this week, son. Yeah. So the final one is, you know, one that I'm actually using, and I was using this because I needed to build a new corporate site for Definitive. And basically, it's called 10 web. And what it is, you know, it's folks that kind of like have a website builder, but it's AI driven. And so, you know, you give it your little bit of a description of your company, the products that you have and it will go and it'll create like the first, you know, kind of the template version of your website for you. And so this ties back into, you know, anyone that's trying to build something that is looking for like a quick way to get off the ground, you can write your summary yourself.

51:21You can have it enhanced through one of the choose your AI of choice, generative AI of choice. And then you can take that and stick it in these other tools that can further enhance it. Like we were showing you even with Hoppy Copy. And so this is the one that, you know 10 web i want to give them a shout out i think they're doing a great job they made it quite simple i i had just done this quickly before because we needed to create a new corporate website for ourselves and this you know i this took me less than 30 seconds to put together and you can use this as a jump off point for kind of building you know your your home base for your for your business wow incredible yeah so it asked you your business type i could pick a digital agency after i said i was creating a digital agency yeah i could pick this i think i'm picking the one that you picked yeah that's the one i picked yeah yeah it looks like a nice one with tiles uh then i hit next and enter your company name calacanis solutions we make your dreams into reality you can even click that enhance with ai above that if you want if you go back to cal it'll it'll further it'll further expand that out for you let's say generating especially bringing your vision to life great even better marketing non-spent service one seo newsletter whatever you want yeah yeah yeah service one brand identity seo content video next formal informal finalized boom sign up a gogo no i will not be but yeah it's great i mean these wizards already exist and uh you know squarespace got a great wizard and some other people have great wizards but adding a little ai magic to it makes it even faster and then the ability to talk to it i'm sure squarespace will have this kind of stuff built in shortly like it's going to and then i think being able to say hey uh talk to it a little bit can i make it a little bit more um uh organic looking can i make it a little bit you know or enhance this section yes or let's put it and what they do is like they kind of tie it in like hey can you add a blog section or something like that and i think it's look it really lowers a barrier and i think it's going to be incredible i like i said it's everything i literally had this it's very interesting had this internal discussion i said put up uh we're doing a new um uh accelerator for restaurant startups like cloud kitchen startups i'm doing uh we're going to be announcing it next week or whatever when i don't know when this is coming out but anyway we're doing this little test where we're going to try to give money to people who want to create restaurant experiences inside of cloud kitchens and um i said make a website and then so somebody was using like hard more like hard coding it yeah and i was like stop and i just told the person running the program go pick a squarespace website use a 10-minute go and they were 10 hours into building a website like what are we doing here yeah like did we not and it was just somebody wanted to be more custom or whatever and i was like stop what you're doing this is not why we're here is to be website developers yeah squarespace will get us 99 of the way there and then you customize squarespace do not start with a blank sheet of paper stop yeah you know and uh i think this is where entrepreneurs will learn like a lot of good lessons with ai you know 99.9 will be done by you know an ai powered service and you can just go back to your core business like the travel startup you start at the beginning all right listen time to go uh what a great job everybody who wants to work with definitive intelligence uh they're too busy they got too many customers now maybe they maybe they'll be able to find a spot on your dance card we're always want to talk to folks always want to talk to customers uh you can email sunny at definitive dot io io sunny s-u-n-n-y at definitive dot io if you got a demo for sunny send it to him maybe we'll feature it here if you're a big customer you know boom i get five percent of any referral so that's good for me and we'll see you all next time i don't i'm joking i'm an investor I kind of get a little bit.

55:15We'll see you next time on This Week in AI Slash Startups. Bye-bye.