Apple Vision Pro, Meta’s MusicGen, Waitroom demo & more with Vinny Lingham and Sunny Madra | E1760

0:28The action item is obvious. slash startups. Merge. Let your developers get back to their core product. Merge is a single API to add hundreds of integrations to your app. Integrate up to three customers for free today at merge.dev slash twist and lemon.io. Need to speed up your product development without draining your budget? Hire vetted engineers from Europe at lemon.io. Go to lemon.io slash twist to get 15 % off for the first four weeks. All right, everybody. Welcome to this week in startups. It's our AI roundtable with Sonny Madra and Vinny Lingham. If we look a little different right now, it's because we're trying out Vinny's super cool new product weight room.com.

1:13Tell us, welcome back to the show Sonny and Vinny. Good to be back. Good to be back Jason. Thanks. Thanks for joining me on weight room. Yeah, so it's weight room.com. This is your product. Yes, I see three video windows. Looks similar. It's in a browser. It looks similar to Zoom with some slight differences. Tell us what we're experiencing here and how AI works into all this. So if you just click on the right-hand side, you obviously see people, but go to the Summer AI. Summer. Summer. As in summarize. Summarize, exactly. Summer AI. Summer. Yeah. And so you can then see all the stuff which, like, we've been telling you before we started the recording.

1:52Oh, wow. So action item, Michael to investigate audio and video stems and signs to Michael. Michael's my co-founder is in the room here as well. It's listening. And it gives insights there that you have. You can scroll up and see all the different stuff we've spoke about. And it's really cool because we're going to have a Slack integration button here. So you will push these things to Slack and you can push this. This is crazy. Look at this. It says catch up. The team engaged in a casual conversation about video quality, beauty filters, touch of my appearance and recording methods during a virtual meeting that's an accurate description of my first five minutes on here so if somebody was coming in they can catch up really quickly but also this insight here the action item is obvious if i were to say right now action item each week vinny shows up with more than just his opinions but he brings two or three actual demos of ai products that would put it as an action item yes vinny that's correct jason okay what's the lag between me telling you an action item and actually getting done.

2:51And then also some AI summarizing it. It's two questions. So why don't we get my co-founder, Michael, to chime in quickly. And this is the chime in feature. So he gets 45 seconds to tell us. Oh, okay. So it takes about two and a half minutes. Obviously, you can't summarize every second because that doesn't make any sense. But it's approximately two and a half minutes of conversation that we summarize every in chunks as they go along. We also, the stories also get better over time because we keep feeding that context as the conversation is happening to the LLM. And so it's more accurate and just, you know, improves as it goes along.

3:30What's more difficult, Michael? You know, the new state of AI and working with these language models or dealing with an insane dictator like Vinny?

3:41Oh, sorry, you're out of time. You're out of time. That's the end of your 45 seconds. Sorry, Michael. So that's actually pretty cool though. So I'm looking at it right now while we were having that chime in feature. So this is kind of cool for a live audience. I can have people, I can allow people 45 seconds and I can hover over that end key and just end them anytime I want. Absolutely. And you get multiple people chiming in as well. And you can have, yeah, we've had hundreds of thousands of people in the room. So it's like kind of like Twitter spaces, but with video. So you can do a video like the three of us and then people, you know, you can add more co-hosts or you can just have people chime in for a few seconds sure great um what i like about it though is while we were talking it did an insight and again it's like it's like a dvr it's like every two and a half minutes it chunks the transcript and tries to make sense of it and here it says insight weight room.com can help teams catch up faster with meeting summaries and action items etc except except it's a transcribed weight room incorrectly uh w-e-i-g-h-t versus w-e-i-t room now um the the cool thing is that now on the back end we're going to train that and so it'll now recognize that when you refer to weight treatments actually means weight room so so it's going to get smarter over time and when we move from g you know chat like gpt4 to 4.5 or 5 as we look my action item came in um so let me do another action item here action item allow each some ai item whether it's a catch-up action item or insight to have a threaded comment thread and port all of those or pipe all of those into a google sheet notion page or slack room so we have them for all time that's an action item action item michael um so you you know i i think this is great for a dictatorship this kind of software really shows the power of uh dictators no michael cannot chime in no okay not michael you had your shot that's enough i want another 45 seconds so that's the beauty of this anyway so i think the purpose of this demo we always just show you like what we're doing and and so we're actually focusing right now is on on vcs funny enough so because vcs have a very strong power in the industry right now if you're a startup and you get a link from a vc you want to pitch them on um you know on your startup you don't care whether it's a zoom link a microsoft meetings link or a wait room link you'll use whatever they give you to join the call so that's the first thing secondly is vcs tend to be a little lazier they don't want to be updating their sales force every single time they they chat to a startup we will have a sales force integration where every time you have a meeting it updates when you spoke to them and then also put in uh you know information you know insightful meeting in there into the notes etc and the reason this is interesting is that we are building custom prompts around our llm and we'll have an llm in future probably but for now custom prompts on on on gpt uh on open ai and those custom prompts understand the vc's business intricately so as the as the startup is uh pitching giving things giving ideas it'll be able to alert you to potential conflicts with other startups in your portfolio it'll be able to tell you uh you're in maybe you should connect this guy with that with with another founder in the portfolio so we're going to make it very customized and the summer ai tab right now is common between all three of us but you can have a private tab as well where it gives you private insights like, hey, Sunny's company is in conflict with this other portfolio company.

7:15Be careful not to tell them about this project that the company is working on. Be careful with that. Be careful with that feature. Well, no. So we have to train it, right? So once the model is well trained, it's going to give insights to the VC or whoever the host and private insights. So I think that's powerful. That's a really interesting idea. Okay, Sunny, you've been hearing all this and you're looking at it. uh what are your thoughts on this 1.0 of real-time meeting transcriptions action items i know some other people like otter and there's a couple of people who've had some you know uh touched on some of these ideas but this is pretty much the best execution i've ever seen yeah i mean i think in your action items just showed up in the right here um look i really like this you know it's almost there's like two aspects one there's the real-time capture of information that's like you know generally been a problem.

8:02And I think, you know, Vinny has done it really nice, like integrated natively in the product, a lot of those tools, you have to add them as like extensions or like a new person into a zoom meeting, which obviously, you know, changes the dynamic of a meeting. So I really like that. I think the other thing that's cool here is the feature that Vinny just talked about is like the back channel, right? So whenever you're running a meeting, you're always have some kind of back channel running, either it's, you know, within a private chat or a WhatsApp or iMessage and so to and and most of that is just for context of like oh hey like let's talk about this next or something and so i think like combining that could be really really powerful um you know these actions are coming in really great like i think it's it's you know it's the other action item which was pipe uh ai items like catch up action items insights into google sheets notion and of course slack which was the exact so in order for these kind of technologies to work you need to have some percentage confidence i think right sonny like yeah i don't mind if weight room is spelled wrong you know that people could hear that wrong like a human hears that wrong all the time i might say calm and they think it's palm you know you know i might say apple they might think it's snapple it doesn't really matter if it gets a word wrong once in a while but if it gets the the gist of it i can edit it and and work on it but when you have a great product like this are a great starting point, Vinny.

9:23I always tell founders this. You can tell when something has really got some potential, something does have a lot of potential if users, when using it, immediately come up with five or six ideas. Now, that doesn't mean that it's the perfect roadmap. It could be custom software for them. But at least it means, Sonny, that people are inspired. So what do you think you add to this next? What are the features you add next to weight room? If you were on the board or you were an investor, I don't know if you are an investor. What are you telling Vinny? Hey, dummy. You missed this, this, and this. Well, look, I think the opportunity here is when Zoom took off, you know, during the pandemic and at the start, it was really low friction.

10:04What happened is as it's, you know, kind of gone enterprise, it has lost some of that low friction stuff. And now there was reasons for it. People were showing up in random Zooms and all that. So I'd say go back to low friction, Vinny. Keep the cost super low. I really like this idea of shortening the meetings. And so you're already kind of doing that. And then integrating with other tools. I think that's the biggest feature here is integrating into other workflows. Connect the API to If This Then That and Zapier. And you've got it. Yeah, we need Zapier very soon as well. Tons of integration. And by the way, it's free.

10:44So we're not even charging for it right now. It's free because we want the models to learn and train. And so the more conversations we have, the better we're getting at doing this. The good news for building services like this, I remember there was a Sequoia company that made video conferencing as a service. And I think all like AWS and Google, they all provide some sort of video relay as a service now. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Which ones have you tried or which one do you use? any thoughts on the back end here and how effective that is i haven't used any of those yeah so did you you didn't have to write the video back end though right no no no no we use agora so yeah we use agora on our back end um uh but we you know we like there are a number of companies doing it and agora has been doing it for quite a while and they're a public company and we've working and you know we we kind of used them i guess when clubhouse was blowing up um and they were using agora and we said okay well we should try as well because they got some crazy amount of scale and by the way clubhouse went the same vc route as well they went to the vcs first built the community and then it just blew up and we we started using agora and the product has improved dramatically over the past two years i mean we you know product yeah features yeah yeah and the the founder came from webex uh and the other founder co-founders like was i think it was co-founder of zoom as well so um you know these guys understand their business and we're very like we're very happy to you know use their platform and it's going well i mean like the quality we so we're running this stream at 640 by 360 we can jack it up to whatever right so um it's pretty um it's pretty easy for us to go up because while it's free right now this is live in production by the way so it's just free so we're running low res because why should we pay you know the high We're not charging people.

12:36We're still in product development phase. But as the product improves, and I think we can go up to 4K. So that could be an upgrade package, right? So you pay for Waitroom. The AI is built in. You want 4K. You pay a little bit more. You want integrations into Salesforce. There's a fee for that. So there's ways to make money. You could also have a third tab here, which is transcript. And you can annotate the transcript. so you could have another one just the you know running transcript and you can annotate it uh at the end of the meeting at the end of the meeting you're going to get a meeting minutes of the entire meeting so they get emailed to you and then you can forward it around or you can send it to people in the company so we do all that already even here when you have an insight or a catch-up or an action item it tells you the time stamp of it and so that is super helpful if you wanted to jump to the time stamp you could and it's a range and it's a range like the last one came through year 1036 to 1038.

13:32So for the past two minutes, we've been speaking about Agora's experience at Clubhouse and Founders' background. So it tells you the time. It's not a single time stamp. It's the range of when the conversation happens. Yeah, it's great. One of the reasons why criticism can feel obnoxiously aggressive is that sometimes people use criticism to sort of dominate or assert superiority. And that is not helpful criticism. So state your intention to be helpful. That was Radical Candor, author and friend of this podcast, Kim Scott. She just did her masterclass session called Tackle the Hard Conversations with Radical Candor.

14:12A great concept, a great philosophy of running a business. And if you're a business leader, hey, you're going to learn so much on masterclass. There are amazing lessons from Bob Iger on leadership, Chris Voss on negotiations, Alexis Ohanian, another friend of the pod on startup investing, and so much more. These are the legends in their specific verticals, in their crafts, and Masterclass will teach you what they know, and you're going to learn on your own time. Paying for an unlimited Masterclass subscription is a total no-brainer. Listen, how many times in this life do you get to hear from this level of virtuoso?

14:46Very rare, very rare that you get to. And that was just one insight from Kim in 15 seconds. Imagine how much you're going to learn in 10 minutes, maybe in two hours. Why don't you set yourself up with a masterclass subscription? Here's your call to action. Super simple. Get unlimited access to every class. And right now as a twist listener, you're going to get 15 % off when you go to masterclass.com slash startups. That's masterclass.com slash startups for 15 % off an annual membership masterclass.com slash startups. And I guess you could pick more or less. so that would be kind of cool too is if i could have three settings like more details less details because you know and then also how does it know who everybody is uh yeah exactly exactly so that's kind of interesting um for our producer producer nick you know when you have guests on the show or people are speaking you get four different quick times from them and you can kind of line them up but when you send a raw zoom meeting it it doesn't know who's who right you have to train it on who's who if you're using a service like temi or any other descript or whatever you have to like assign who is who but here you don't you know a hundred percent who is who because they dialed into the meeting so that's kind of awesome as well you could put the percentage that people spoke uh people who didn't speak you could do um what uh what is the one for sales people gong and there's a bunch of competitors to gong you could put like people you know people who ask questions people who are inquisitive uh people who are definitive you can kind of uh you know add those kind of characteristics to it so when i use grammarly grammarly um has a feature where it will tell you i don't know if you use grammarly sonny yeah i do do you either of you pay for grammarly i do i pay for it too this is very interesting and i pay for all my teams to use it and when they don't have it on like on a video conference i go nuts because i'm just like look at these spelling errors look at these grammar errors like i'm a writer like i have errors like if you're going fast and you're typing um but it has ai built into it now to make things longer shorter etc but it also just has tone detection so it's like this is definitive well that's the thing so with ai you're gonna have so in the future within three to five years we're gonna have the ability to read sunny's face your face my face look for like expression points see oh Jason's angry right now.

17:12Sonny's happy, et cetera. That's my bullshit face. You'll be able to do all your, I think you pretty cool stuff on, especially large groups. But like, you know, back to what you were saying about the summaries. So Michael's actually working on a daily digest right now. So you'll be able to get a daily digest of all your meetings, daily stats, summaries. And Oh, the other cool thing, Jason, you could say something in this meeting, like, Hey Nick, ping me next week, or even say, Nick, I'll send this doc to you by Sunday. And on Saturday, you'll get an email from the system saying, hey, you promised Nick in this meeting.

17:47Reminders. Reminders. So because it's intelligently understanding what the conversation is about, we're going to make it way more integrated into your life. It's interesting if you combine this, Sunny, with something like Slack or Asana or Notion or Coda where people are doing their task management, etc. You could have these conversations, know the project we're working on and have the okrs or whatever yeah and have the context of that yeah yeah i think uh what's interesting here vinnie like you know when you've been evolving this product and it's weight room you know from its first incarnate incarnation but it really is interesting now that you could think about this as a ai native um like meeting tool rather than sort of the way whether rather than the weight room concept and so that's super powerful because it it's doing all the work is what we see these AIs doing for us.

18:40And so, I don't know, maybe you have to even consider the name. We have, we have, we have, we've had some conversations about that. That's definitely. Wait, it was great. Wait, it was great. But Jason says it's nice. So I think also like it's one word domain name. It'll add all this other features. It sticks to the sort of roots that we have. We can consider it. We do have like notion integration as well. You'll be able to ask Summer like, Like, hey, Summer, what are the sales for the past three months in the company? And if it's in Notion, it'll look it up and give it to you right there. So while you're having a conversation, having a meeting, you can actually, without interrupting, like interrupting the flow, opening up a new tab and whatever else, be able to pull that information out.

19:21You have a live assistant who's doing work for you. It's like having Jarvis at an Avengers meeting. I tried getting Jarvis.com. I was thinking about that. All right, enough. This has been great. There's your 20-minute commercial for Weight Room. but there's a great job on the ai features uh and let's go back to zoom and finish the episode all right sunny you've been great at getting a bunch of really interesting demos every week here for our ai roundtable on this week in startups over the past week what did you play with what did you find most interesting yeah so i'm gonna touch on some things that we saw in different places I think a couple weeks ago so I'm going to just pull up a video here and we tried the Google music generator so now we have which was called music LLM now we have music gen from Facebook and so very similar interestingly you know there is someone has taken it themselves and hosted it at Hugging Face because you know we've talked about what Hugging Face is doing for the AI community as well which is great And so very similar to the Google one we looked at.

20:34It's a Facebook one. And it's hosted here. So it takes a little bit longer to generate. So I pre-generated. But you can see the examples down below here where if you want an 80s driving pop song with drums in the background. Oh, I like that. You want to try this one? Yeah, sure. We're going to have to wait a second here. This does take some time. So this particular service is generating, again, music samples, I think really, really powerful for creators or folks that need intro, outro music. Maybe for this pod, we can generate one of these now because we can do something slightly different than what's already there in the default this weekend startup, JCal.

21:19Okay. Let me ask you a question about this processing speed that's going on here. If you were doing this on your local computer and you had some great GPUs, would it go faster? Or is this like using a lot of cloud? No, this, because it's a free service, is not using a lot of infrastructure. So you're probably getting like shared GPU services. So if you had a really great GPU locally, you would definitely get like a faster return here. It's only generating about 12 seconds as well. So let's hear it.

21:54this feels like a miami vice episode miami vice a two-part series this sunday night on nbc so i was gonna talk in the episode okay okay it's pretty great i have to say that like if it's doing this today it's going to be doing so much more i was you know when we went to see kygo uh me and me and sunny went to see is it kygo is that how you pronounce his name i think so yeah i decided i would like to be a dj uh and do a dj set um so i'm gonna i want to do like a jcal ai dj set but i need to i'm gonna need help i want a completely ai generated original dj set so i'll put that on the list of things that uh somebody can help me with to get themselves a general admission ticket i need i need a producer or somebody to prompt engineer i don't know what i need exactly um i think you need a prompt engineer a producer that is also good at prompt engineering i mean in the future you'll have like prompt engineers and then uh yeah dropping some grimes vocals from the ai there and uh yeah just get a producer get blood pop to polish it off done and done yeah but uh so you know look what why is this interesting we're just seeing now and like well let's maybe pause this one for a second but you know facebook's work they're in and around the open source is great because they're making these models available for everyone to use and pick them up working obviously very closely with hugging face and so i think it's great great for the ecosystem what's going to be great about this you know vinnie is if you look at the bottom 50 of music usage um it doesn't require you know all that much um quality it doesn't require that much uniqueness if we were doing something where we needed a little bit of music for a short film or commercial background for an ad read in a podcast you know this will let you instead of using stock music for your youtube video create something unique for you but the truth is those people would never have hired an actual musician in the world to do this they would never have spent a thousand dollars on it they would have bought stock music for 10 bucks and so here instead of buying stock music for 10 bucks you can do it for free and make something truly unique and that's just something that dawned on me vinny is that we're going to be able to make unique stuff that's better than clip art and royalty free yeah so i'm actually investing in a music startup um that i can't take a little more stealthy but they're basically their thesis is that um music gets democratized like i can't play an instrument right so i'm i'm terrible i can't i can't play music i love listening to music i can't play it and so they're trying to make it simpler for people to create this music and using ai as part of the whole thing i and and i think you know i think we're going to see a lot more of those types of startups in the market we're basically enabling the mass market to be more participatory in the music industry, creating music.

25:02Now, obviously, it's one of the things where music itself, to learn how to read music and sheet music and how to play instruments, it takes years and lots of muscle memory, et cetera. Now, I think there's definitely an opportunity for, like what Rock Band did, right? Rock Band crushed it when they came out. Kids were playing Rock Band all the time on their Playstations and drumming and whatever else. And I think you're going to see more of that. I think you're going to see more startups leveraging AI to basically make it really, really easy to create your own music. And this is a good example of it already.

25:35Well, you can see where this is going to go, Vinny, Sonny. Very simply, there will be one of these for drums, one of these for guitars, one of these for vocals, one of these for piano. And, you know, you'll be able to specialize in a particular instrument, you know, and go deep on that, right? Like, if you just think about guitar, I saw you had like a guitar riff. You could start really, you know, an AI could go very deep just in guitar, guitar whether it's classical or rock or heavy metal you know uh folk music etc nobody's done that yet right no i mean i think and that's that's a really good insight jakell in terms of like where we're probably going to go overall with these models is we'll start with really large ones that are generic and then we'll work our way into like you know i guess like almost application specific and so a really great one for guitars and a really great one for synthesizers and so yeah i and then people will specialize them in the way they do with real instruments right they'll understand how to work with them to get them you know like as a as a musician can understand how to work with the guitar to get it to generate you know incredible sounds we'll see the same thing here yeah and then the next step vinny is you say here's an artist and here's their catalog um here's their views and comments on youtube you know so you take an artist you know that has an incredible library say bob dylan just feed in the entire bob dylan.com lyric site every album every bootleg concert uh and then you say come up with a new song for bob dylan that combines you know this news story you know something happening in the world with you know and write me a protest song or give me some ideas for a protest song i did this the other night where i was trying to come up with names for a new conference i was brainstorming after angel summit so well i had an idea for a new conference and i was brainstorming with chat gpt and i was like come up with a name for this new podcast and this new conference and it has to have this word in it and it came back with three incredible names that i would have never come up with and this was in the first 10 minutes of brainstorming with chat gpt so the brainstorming forgives uh your accuracy hallucinations in brainstorming are good you're great you know kind of like that's why people smoke weed and i'm not advocating smoking weed uh for kids listening but that's why some people will you know take a gummy or smoke some weed and then come up with brainstorming ideas i kind of feel like we're we're also going to see something in that vein where you take the body of work plus these new tools and then come up with uh either unbelievably uncannily accurate tracks or new sounds yeah yeah it's also hard it's also hard to tell i mean i've seen people posting clips of hey here's a collab between these two musicians and then they go ha kidding i just created that using you know ai and so like how do you know anymore when you like it's gonna be really really difficult to um yeah like i'm a bit concerned with identity as it applies to audio because you can't see right like you know visually you can see when there's a fake bot on the screen like you can yeah that's not real but with audio it's so perfect and so crisp and so clear right now you can mimic people's voices you can create songs you can like i i i i'm almost certain we're going to get a number one hit that's fake at some point.

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30:20So they're going to give you three linked accounts for free today at merge.dev slash twist again you get three linked accounts for free already at merge.dev slash twist check it out it is a game changer i have a guy on uh um on youtube i follow he's called laszlo bernie it's only got 34 000 uh subscribers but check this out this first one is the sultan sultans of swing by dire straits and if it was written by pink floyd so this guy understands the style so well that he can you know play the sultans of swing as if it was pink floyd you know dire straits to pink floyd and then you can also do a pink floyd song as dire straits dire straits uh so this is comfortably numb famous pink floyd song coming at you k rock 97.5 new york city long island coming to you jones beach 87 degrees and overcast we might get some thunderstorms while you're rocking the beach stick with us get some double a batteries for your cd player i also i think i tweeted out like a couple weeks ago these guys hired this uh actor who looks just like paul mccartney and and they wrote this like parody song and he actually played the song but like they used ai for the voice so it sounded just like paul mccartney they use ai for the this actual song happening and but there's an actor so now you think what what that sounds like him it looks like him it's not it's not ai it confused me because i thought it was an ai vote i thought like i thought it was paul mccartney for real but they made it made it looks that it was kind of weird it's crazy well it's kind of like the deep fake uh tom cruise there we go that's the one oh my lord that is

32:21okay let's do another demo all right sure okay um so just continuing here another area which i think is is going to get really really exciting you know ties into a bunch of uh spatial stuff as we should call it now because we don't use the m-word anymore um is uh you know 3d m-word being metaverse metaverse yes well it's spatial now that there's actually a real product yes made by a real company there's always been real products um so what you can see here and And, you know, if you've ever been in and around Luma Labs. Luma Labs. Okay, here we go. Image 3D version 1.2 alpha. Okay. Yep, exactly.

33:11And what they have here, and I don't have access, I'm on the wait list, but they have some pre-built 3D models. And so here I'm going to just pull up a highly detailed sculpture of a squirrel wearing a purple hoodie. And, you know, this is a proper 3D model. And you can imagine this is incredibly valuable for folks that are building things in the spatial verse and or video games, anything along those lines. And this, if you've been in around like 3D generation, this was a very, very, you know, kind of time consuming. aspect yeah and expensive and so now and you know for years the way that this was mostly handled is there was these huge libraries of open source models that people would start with and then you know go from there but now the ability to kind of generate these from a prompt is going to be incredible for for the industry well this is for video games as well this is for pixar movies this is for any 3d modeling uh could be games could be casual games uh could be a movie or a tv show so you can imagine immediately somebody taking a storyboard or sorry somebody taking a screenplay and you could literally upload a screenplay to this product with a little bit of glue maybe use chat gpt or bard as the general ai in this model and then tell it to use this one to make the characters but you take it and just say hey you know make pulp fiction uh but with cute furry animals or miniature animals and it just takes every character makes them into puppets or whatever you choose and uh now you got a storyboard and you just literally take scenes and say make me this scene from inglorious bastards uh and um then just give it prompts to change the characters around until you know quentin tarantino feels a certain inspiration This is really going to be amazing for ideation from directors and screenplay writers.

35:08And by the way, they want to ban it. And on music, a friend of mine who does a podcast, is a rapper, he was saying what people don't understand with these music-generated AIs, like what we were talking about earlier, is this is how music is pitched. right so today if you want to pitch something to a famous artist you may write it and then you may lay it down on a track and then get it over but to put it in their voice is going to be hugely beneficial for the creation industry because that's how um you know that's the and again like that's the general process and i think you know jayco you and i've talked about maybe having rob goldberg on to help us here because he spent a lot of time in and around music but um that's the process right you come up with either the lyrics so i write this great song i'm sia i write chandelier and instead uh and then i just say hey here's me singing it but then you say take the top 10 pop artists yeah uh who are trending right now and put it in their voices and send them a one minute sample yeah to their phones yes and whoever wants this song can have it for a million bucks yeah and wow that's powerful yeah and so that i thought that was a really interesting way of looking at it because you know already today you know it's already happening i may come up with a like a beat or i may come up with the lyrics and then i'm you know recording it and sending it over and then the artist has to think about how they think about you know how it would sound in their voice now you can take it one step further and then the artist says oh great i want to take this on so for creators i really thought that was a interesting way for them to look at it and that applies here if you you know if you've got a great game idea before getting it funded you could build something that's like a prototype and then go off get your funding and build out the whole game.

36:56Alright, and as we were talking about before, here is the AI, Steve Jobs in J. Cal and shout out to Edward Brower Brower I have one demo I prepared for us. Great, awesome One demo and one other thing. It's not really a demo, but I'm going to show you guys and tell you what I think. Oh, my God. It's kind of cute. Here we go. Oh, I saw this one. Yeah. Here we go. They think, but this is Apple 101. It just didn't make sense to do a VR headset until now. When Apple releases something, it's because the preconditions for releasing something insanely great have been assembled. Really, that is the secret formula.

37:44Apple has made mistakes, and you have to try things. But Apple tends to get the big things right. Now, I think that brings us to Siri. Apple had an incredible lead, and it seems to have vanished now. Siri feels antiquated. Isn't Apple dropping the ball at this point? You know, sometimes when you are the first, that means that going back and redoing the architecture when there are big breakthroughs takes more time. I'm, like, oddly compelled to keep listening, not for myself, but for Steve Jobs. I look like some weird hybrid of me and Christopher Walken. yeah so steve jobs this reality headset is making my mind go cuckoo yeah i'm just saying edward norton look a little bit like edward norton there's a little ed norton going on there but not not too not too shabby jobs i bought apple stock in 1979 yeah wow i mean they're better off doing it with the 3d models yes but i mean the thing i love about that version i think that the the copy was written by the individual not by ai is that it's a it's familiar to have me interview a founder which is cool yeah but if you put the right text in his and you give him the right script you know and i listen respect to the family and like we're not making a mockery of anything here it just does bring back this uh and maybe there's some like period of time before doing these things that make sense but it does make me really miss steve jobs being in the industry and the incredible force he was i don't mean to get emotional or anything but like he's just such a great force to have in the industry to comment on stuff and to push the industry and and it was like such a non-conformist and an incredible thinker that I just kind of miss hearing him pontificate.

39:41I could listen to the guy for hours. I have listened to the guy for hours. All right, you got a great idea for your tech startup. And hey, listen, you're going to change the world. I know you're going to do it, but there's a problem. You don't have engineers, right? You need engineers. You need those developers, but it's hard to find them. And it's certainly hard to find them quickly. So if you're trying to reduce your burn rate and you're in a tight spot and you need to get engineering talent right now, well, what you want to do is imagine there was a partner who could provide you with more than a thousand on-demand developers.

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40:43So here's your call to action to learn more. Go to Lemon.io slash twist and find your perfect developer or tech team in 48 hours or less. And twist listeners get 15 % off their first four weeks. So stop burning money, hire developers and hire developers smarter by visiting Lemon.io slash twist. any of your feelings yeah i feel the same way um i mean i think it's a good segue to talk about the vision pro i mean like this is this is the product um i think none of us have used it yet yeah they gave select 30 minute demos to specific uh i don't want to say friendly journalists but you know they're very savvy about who they give access to these things uh and he's brown he did a good one on youtube on that i saw that awesome so yeah it's a little bit of the pr game that apple plays they'll give early access to folks who they know are super favorable to apple that doesn't mean they're going to get a glowing review but i think they know how to use access to early products as a way to shape reviews uh which i guess is all also i love in pr i'd like to talk about this more like from a strategic perspective because yes i think a lot lot of people came out criticizing the price point okay like who's gonna spend three and offer and i want to make it clear like this is this is not this is the first version of something which is game-changing you're gonna get probably maybe even a million people buying it and version two is gonna be cheaper and better version three is gonna be cheaper and better and that's not apple iterates apple watch version one was sucked version eight now is amazing right you know what I should say, that's not a based comment.

42:26It's a basic comment. Let me restate. The based comment would be this thing just killed the Oculus, whatever, Rift 7. What did you think, Sonia? I think it does. No, it doesn't. Not this version. Not this version. I think there was a couple of issues, right? If you take a step back, you look at almost every scenario they showed it in it's highly you know sort of single player mode and i think one of the things that we've seen now is um you know people maybe coming out of covid or whatever it happens to be returned to the office people want to be in multiplayer mode and so every you know that that was something that really jumped out at me um i think another another thing that really was um unique in that uh you know they have this mode where it shows your eyes um and so they're sort of contemplating you wearing it and then being around people that aren't wearing it and i i couldn't get my head around like what that use case would be jay you're in your office yeah so you're in your office and you're working and then i come up to you and you're staring at your house you're using it while cooking was like one example and you kind of have some transparency here's the there you go yeah ready player one dude uh you know okay so the reason why this just killed the entire metaverse and meta is done is because of apps uh when you see this demo what this is going to do i don't think it when i say it's it just killed it um the reason i think it killed it is because if you're an app developer this is going to be 95 of your focus you're going to deprecate everything you're doing on the oculus uh or whatever they're calling it what do they call it now the meta quest but jason i'm not sure i i'm not sure i fully agree with you there i think they're two different markets they're going after i think that that that um facebook is definitely focusing on the gaming side of things a lot more than productivity and communication exactly um i think apple is going to be you know it's a different market and the price point guys it has to get down to sub a thousand dollars of course to go mass market but that's going to take five years well i don't think so i don't think we get from three and a half thousand two models remember the iphone they came out with that se what was it called i i see no but that happens when basically you end of lifing the certain design you have excess capacity you can produce stuff i think it's like i think it's three three years minimum probably five most likely people pay but $1 ,500 for their iPhones now.

45:08$1 ,000 to$1 ,500. They boiled that frog. It's been 16 years, Jason. At$1 ,000, this thing's flying off the shelves. At$1 ,000, yes. $1 ,000 ain't what it used to be. But I don't think they're going to go from$3 ,500 down to$1 ,000 in two or three years. In two cycles. What do you think? I think they'll get the price down. I'll take that side. I think they can get the price down. By when? When does it go$999? That's the price point. When it gets under$1 ,000. 995 let's just use like the iphone curve so the iphone really took off in that third generation of iphone and so i think yeah three three years three to four years yeah that's what i would say between three and five yeah it will yeah so i think we're all agreeing on a time frame here three to five years yeah exactly okay so we have the time frame but but so meta now the gauntlet's been thrown down so they have to respond what are they going to respond with the meta is going to be like the android and to apple in this space right so it's going to be the cheaper they're to try and make it even cheaper 500 bucks 200 bucks improve the quality etc etc and they're going to compete with apple and when it's down to 995 the quest is going to be 495 for whatever it is similar today which is i think 800 and they'll probably get it done so i don't think you're going to get i don't think you're going to get everyone moving to apple a different question on the pricing so jaykel you know in the videos that we were just showing there which show it using it as like an infinite desktop that's the cost of like those studio displays right those apple studio displays are they're about exactly right they're like three to five thousand bucks luxury product for them is that mac pro tower and those luxury wide screens i'm using one right now that's exactly my point you're you're how much did you pay for that insanity five thousand dollars i can't remember no it's at least five grand no the studio display is two thousand okay so just so you know you could have bought the equivalent dell monitor and it would have been bigger and just as crisp for half the price and then put a thousand dollar dell computer on the back of it and had a mac and a dell getting it down so i think this use case that we're showing in the video here which is like an infinite desktop i think is the right way to think about it i think this is an interesting one for um yes like which could really take off quickly in in a trade-off with the um the studio display and so that's that i find a little bit fascinating i just also would love to have this when i'm working yeah uh in a hotel room on the road in an airbnb on a plane to be able to pull up your entire setup and to see through it if the flight attendant goes by and you want to ask him for coke zero or something you could still do it through your headset um and uh this is the minority report future i've always wanted so i i love this and i hate vr but i can see myself using this i don't use vr i i like i bought a couple of these things i don't like being every developer on the planet is now looking at this going you know what i have an app in the app store uh every developer with an app in the app store is saying oh what can i what can i what can i charge for this so if your notion if you're grammarly if your weight room whatever product you are service whatever game com.com fitbod if you're fitbod and one of our investments you're looking at this going you know what i can charge 50 bucks a year for people wearing this while they work out and i can work on their technique and when they just look around the gym it uses visual ai to create an inventory of all your equipment and then after it creates an inventory of your equipment it creates you a workout based on you having you know dumbbells there or kettlebells or whatever and then it directs you to the proper kettlebell of the proper weight and says pick this one up and it glows it red you know like this is your personal trainer you know ai personal trainer in this goggles now people in the gym would sound ridiculous wearing this but if it got you a better workout it'd be worth it so people glossed over this point uh that i'm going to make now in in in the Apple announcement, they showed the integrations with Zoom, Microsoft meetings, Waitroom potentially as well.

49:18They basically created this, an SDK for video conferencing platforms to plug directly into this. And we're going to be the one of the first to do it. It's going to be amazing. And I think that, I think this is like, they've really thought through, how do you, you know, how do you put the, how do you use these vision glasses, whatever you want to call it, to do remote work? To me, it looks like, as Sonny said, a single player mode product. it's like you're at home it sits next to your bed or wherever it is and you use it when you buy yourself but when you go out and play multi-play with your friends or you go to the office you don't really need it you know i gotta think like you know virtual white board services like miro you pop this up you got three people in the office you know in palo alto and then you got two people you know in ukraine and two people in uruguay and one person in australia and you're all just going through the product roadmap and building stuff in real time i could see a remote team all deciding to wear these 10 hours a day and build together and be on the same what do they call those kanban boards is that the right term kanban yeah kanban um yeah kanban um uh you know like a visual workflow some yeah and then you have summer ai in the background well you know and then people could put on a track and say hey we like when i worked in an office we had a sonos and people would put tracks on the sonos was kind of a fun way to share music with each other some people would put their noise cancelling headphones on and not participate in it but it was like a fun thing to do on a friday but you can imagine people like walking up to the kanban board picking an item a story and then walking away with it and putting it on their task and then me being able to walk over to their cube or whatever it is and watch them working in real time writing code and like there's just 10 desktops in a space and i walk around like the plant manager at a factory and i walk up to the designer's desk i see them working this would be a way to navigate um the big tension between remote workers and the management management is scared that you're working on two different jobs and they can't see you yeah workers are like trust us we're going to do some side projects probably but yeah during the day but you know but just seriously trust us um and then imagine you're you know during these four-hour blocks we're having two four-hour blocks one in the morning one in the afternoon i could walk around and see everybody working and what they're working on and watch them work it's kind of cool uh and you know it doesn't have to be creep or anything like you could do the same thing you walk over to my desk and if you walk over it just chimes me that you're there you know uh you know it's kind of like the uh you know zuckerberg or you know walks around the design team hey what are you working on just a casual meet and greet you could just set it for maybe hey every afternoon for three hours we're going to do a co-working session together and you just have a virtual co-working session what do you guys think i think it's great and i'm looking forward to that world i think this is a much needed product i'm excited by it because i i work from home so like i am i am in single player mode all the time this is a lot of people do by the way like i think it's a big enough market all right vinnie you got to go thanks for coming on congrats on uh your work on weightroom.com go check it out check out the weight room all right uh let's rip through these uh sending a couple more demos for me yeah i do um we'll save some as well because you know uh let me show you this next one here i saw you doing replit i saw you writing some code yeah yeah i'm always doing credit for some uh replic copilot code no no no that's all mine i mean i didn't use the copilot I thought this was interesting.

52:54So this is using ControlNet to take the QR codes, but make them artistic. So obviously, we've seen these a lot these days, because people use them for menus. and you know i actually you know i like the integration that apple and everyone has done where you can just open up your camera and do it you don't need anything kind of special but this idea of turning it into a um and i think on this one right here you can pull this one up uh if you want and you can just put it on your screen if you want to pull your phone up and it'll open the link up and so um the idea that you can make a qr code artistic and having the ai do it I thought was really, really bright and just, um, you know, could open up a lot of new possibilities of embedding more information inside a scene or inside of an advertisement, um, and make it sort of native.

53:51And so all of these ones that I'm just scrolling through here, uh, can all trigger your iPhone, um, or your, any, any, I guess can be any phone. Um, these are stunning. What a great idea. they're really really awesome this is all done with control control control that is a stable diffusion model correct correct part of stable diffusion yeah um it's it's basically prompts for you give it a reference image yes say this is what i want to start with i believe that's the difference right control yeah yeah you give it your image and then your qr code and then it comes up with this um which is you know i i was really blown away by these and so anyways i thought this was really so cool yeah and maybe we can do some of these at the summit stable for people who understand what stable diffusion is maybe you could explain the when people say stable diffusion it's a little bit of confusion because there's an open source project and a company maybe you explain what that is architecturally on a business basis uh yeah i'll just kind of go down the basics So when we talk about OpenAI, their models are like GPT-X, right?