Apple’s MGIE, Google’s Gemini Advanced, Microsoft’s Copilot and more! | E1897

0:00the question is can chat gpt open ai and microsoft that duopoly can they beat apple and meta open source your answer no wow wow stunning yep snap snap you snapped it you called you shoved all the chips in you believe meta and apple will beat the mighty microsoft open ai duopoly and look we've seen this movie before this week in startups is brought to you by vanta compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. Twist listeners can get$1 ,000 off for a limited time at vanta.com slash twist. Scalable Path.

0:47Want to speed up your product development without breaking the bank? Since 2010, Scalable Path has helped over 300 companies hire deeply vetted engineers in their time zone. Visit scalablepath.com slash twist to get 20 % off your first month. And LinkedIn ads To redeem a$100 LinkedIn ad credit and launch your first campaign, go to linkedin.com slash thisweekinstartups. All right, everybody. Welcome to This Week in Startups. It's time for our AI roundtable where we do demos. Me and Sandeep have been doing this and the crowd loves it. The audience has been going crazy for these AI demos. Every week, we try to find five demos that y 'all will be inspired by or intrigued by and just to keep tabs on the absolutely blistering pace of AI innovation in our industry, you can see all the demos at thisweekinstartups.com slash AI.

1:43You can go there, see all the demos, and just really catch up with what's been an incredible, I don't know, what is it, like we're 14, 15 months into this since JetGPT 3.5 was released and took the world by storm. Yeah. How are you doing, Sonny? You got your Super Bowl behind you. You were very, very excited about the super bowl you know there was a lot of opportunity and it all went out the door with that last play oh man uh i don't yeah i mean was it was this a good super bowl oh i mean i know you're a 49ers fan but yeah putting that aside was this a good super bowl i mean the amount of excitement around it with this taylor swift stuff was extraordinary yeah that was probably a bit too much but you know anything that goes into overtime well come from behind over time both teams have a shot both teams score but one scored a touchdown that's about all you can ask for so yeah yeah up there okay i think it was the most watched event ever wow you see yeah 135 million or something i don't know what the number was crazy is like an average mr beast video gets more views so that's how much our society has changed gets more views but not live so i guess the question is like of people watching live yeah because i mean you think about that um it's just you could look at the first 24 hours of a video and you know how different is that than watching it live probably not much different everybody's at the water cooler seeing it the next day cumulative videos also matter you know if you were to go on to youtube the top most viewed videos are like baby shark gangnam style yeah yeah yeah things that kids listen to over and over and over again so i think mr beast falls into this category it's not taking anything away from them it's repeatability so mr beast doesn't fall into repeat it you can't watch that video again oh i think kids do watch them over and over again yeah i don't not like baby shark where like they listen to it you know every day or 10 times in a row but i do think that there's probably some repeatability there i think young people like to go back to the archive and watch the previous episodes kind of like sopranos right like i've watched the sopranos from start to finish three time so okay yeah okay you know i think i think it is rewatchable but maybe not like a an audio song but either way it's pretty amazing when you think about mr beast releases a super bowl every week in terms of viewership from from that perspective yeah and it's a the duration is also interesting you know the duration of the super bowl is you know five hours four hour experience whatever yeah he's now got 237 million subscribers pretty amazing and there's a bunch of these channels from india that are also in the top 10 t-series yeah t-series is like a like a recording label in india got it'd be like uh uh what was it back i vivo uh or yeah sony records columbia records and then set india 168 million subscribers so wow i don't know exactly i think that's because of the denominator right you have just so many people in india you got a billion people it's you know 25 of the population 17 of the population 237 million subscribers subscribers to mr beast is 330 million people in the united states so he's got roughly if half of those are u.s he's got half the u.s population maybe subscribed i wonder how many of the 207 237 million subscribers are active u.s subscribers that's really the statistic i would look at so he just released a video on saturday let's take a quick look at that and we can see how many views that one has for just a rough sense of you know how he stacks i mean i think he gets like 100 million um yeah in the first couple of days so he got 77 million from three days ago right so and two weeks goes at 128 million wow that's wild yeah so it's you know it's basically in within a week yeah he's got a super bowl there's also you know one of the other things to you know when you're looking at these statistics and how they're recorded you know there are drive-by views so you know if you were to discount people who watched 30 seconds in in both cases the super bowl yeah and mr beast you know you might get a lot of drive-bys on social networks like youtube or certainly twitter you know i think maybe half the views we get on twitter for all in or for these podcasts you know people might be dropping off in the first couple of minutes and so do you really count those as views at what minute do you you know i mean there are views technically but you know are they viewers so to speak right so duration of views matters and percentage complete that's one thing he obsesses about is a percentage completion complete yeah yeah all right let's get into our ai uh demos here let's just do it yeah we have some really really cool stuff today it's a lot different than some stuff that we've seen before so i'm very excited so let's start off with one that is called agent hub.dev.

6:30Agent hub.dev. Got it. And so they have templates. And so they have them for different types of use cases. I'm going to do like a simple one just for demonstration sake, daily stock report generation. And so I can say, I want an agent that generates a daily stock report. So I'm just going to use their template. I'm going to zoom in here. And And what this does, it's like a, you know, like you can imagine, like a little bit of a workflow tool. And I'm just going to say every day I want to see Apple, Amazon, and NVIDIA. We do that. And over here we hit run. What it will do is it has a workflow here, which walks through, you know, what it does, including web stripes, scraping, including some batch workflows.

7:17So this looks like your standard flow chart, you know, flow chart making software here. If this, then do that. Yeah. Exactly. And they have all those templates there. So you can look at the templates. But while this comes together as generating the files, you'll see, I will get a report. So I've got three files here. And so I've got Apple. So if I were to, let me just download these three. And if I were to download them and look at NVIDIA, and you'll see I got this little, oops, that one didn't come out correctly. So let's look at Apple. Oh, well, it bugged out on me. It bugged out. But here it did a script where it said the average price is this.

7:55So if it did do it successfully, it would have filled that in. Yeah. And it was working for me before. I want to give them credit. So I don't know if I messed it up or something. But yeah, it was pulling the price on these things and it was incredible. So it's going out into the open web and doing a search, scraping that data, normalizing and putting it into a report. Exactly. And they have a whole bunch of different templates in here. you know i just i just picked like a simple one but they have ones for automated sales emails and outbound email creator so these kind of multi-step flows with agents which i think is really really cool this reminds me a little bit of zapier or if this then that yes combined with what we used to call workflow software in the 90s and 2000s lotus notes was a original piece of workflow software that i actually used to script i wouldn't call it coding but it was scripting like this hey go collect this information and then send it to this person so if you think about like paying an invoice you would create workflow software an invoice came in uh you know there's somebody it's this is a you know office supplies invoice it has to go to the person who requested the staplers uh then it has to go to their manager to approve then it has to go to the office person to approve then it has to go to the cfo accounts payable person you would just send that invoice around so you know this is kind of stuff like that where you could build a workflow very interesting um and this is where you can start to we've seen a couple approaches to this already right sunny we had somebody who was looking at uh recreating a web browser remember that one we had with the chrome extension a couple weeks ago that would kind of blew our minds yep you know this is kind of the mind-blowing okay so automation oh here we go so this is the analysis yeah yeah so this is the analysis so basically you can read it out.

9:42So this is more than just giving you the stock price. The stock price of Amazon has been fluctuating over the past few weeks. On the last date, the stock closed at$172.34, showing a slight decrease from the previous day. The volume of trading has also been relatively high, indicating active market participation. We have a historical trend. We see there was a spike in stock price on this date, reaching$174.45. However, there was a downward trend after that with the stock closing. I mean, I don't know if you noticed this, but there are automated stories in Apple stocks where they tell you like, this is an automated story.

10:12Have you seen those? And so like, you know, I go check my Uber stock or my Robinhood and it's like, it's kind of like this where it's like a little synopsis of what happened in the market. I'm like, okay, well, this isn't providing me enough value. Just, I would rather, you know, I can look at the stock and know that, but I could see this being valuable over time and this is going to get better and better. What you'd want to do is you'd want to customize it. Listen, a strong sales team can make all the difference for a B2B startup. But if you're going to hire sharks, you need to let them hunt and you can't slow them down with compliance hurdles like SOC 2.

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11:17Stop slowing your sales team down and use Vanta. Get$1 ,000 off at vanta.com slash twist. That's vanta.com slash twist for$1 ,000 off your SOC 2. You have the JCal Yes Chef. And if I worked for you and you know there's something you want on a daily i would build something inside agent hub and it would basically get you something every single day that you wanted to see could be an output from um yeah i could see this working for like hey collect all of the reviews of our product let's say we were you and i were running a cpg company yeah every day go to amazon go to our shopify store go to target tell us all the new reviews give us how the reviews are trending and basically write a report which we might have you know a 30 40 50 an hour employee doing previously yes who is you know our our review analysis now the review analysis could be scripted and automated without a developer and then that person doesn't need to have a job or they can move up the stack to doing more important work so this is uh this is an a for me yeah it's an a i mean i just like the structure of it too um where it's like drag and drop great interface and yeah i could see this eliminating a lot of repetitive work slash jobs and i think that's what we're seeing in all these layoffs that are happening i did a tweet today about it oh yeah these layoffs are really about three things i'm talking about media and tech layoffs let me run this by you and see what you think i think it's about three things one people had very high salaries during peak zerp right There was a massive competition for employees and a lot of people.

12:58I don't want to, I'm not, you know, trying to be cruel to anybody, but when there's a competitive market and you have unions, maybe at the media companies fighting for people as they should, maybe salaries got a little inflated, 10, 20, 30%. Now that doesn't seem like a lot, but if you can lay off 10 % of your workflow force and then replace them with people who are 40 % cheaper, well, or 50 % cheaper, or they don't have the stock options which we saw evan spiegel i think do at snap you know he kind of got rid of top heavy people who had big stock packages i've heard that people who've gotten laid off from google have been asked to reapply for their jobs with a fraction you know like a third less comp have you heard about this boomerang trend yeah so it's interesting that you use the word boomerang because another thing that i've heard layered on to that was there was an echelon of folks that were so highly compensated that in it certainly weren't the younger folks but it was like the folks that were 20 years in mid 20 years in like mid 40s and up that were at like really insane compensation levels of stock and salary and what i'm finding is in some cases are being asked to come back reapply so that they can be reset in other cases they've created a lifestyle for themselves and they can't do that because of you know overhead mortgages and overhead and you know they got used to making like i mean you know jay kelly you know even her art careers it was insane to think about making a million to a million and a half dollars a year and this was pretty common in that kind of echelon that strata of i've been in the tech business for 25 years i'm a gen xer you know i did three job hops over 25 years or 20 years i went from google to facebook to uber and each time i got a quarter million dollars more and i'm this elite person but yeah and so then the second piece of this is i think people are looking at it saying can i automate what this person does and so here these tools you know i look at these tools and i always just squint a little bit and i'm like okay uh 10 exit so here it did like a very basic analysis highs and lows or whatever but if you asked it hey tell me about the contempt forget about even like programming it but you could say to another lm what question should i ask this what would be common questions to ask about stocks and i would say oh how does it compare to its competitors yes how does this compare and it could even come up with the questions to ask yes and then put them all the way down from ai all the way down yes so just like you get suggested searches oh you did a search for i don't know burritos and then it said well here's burrito recipes here's burrito low carb recipes keto recipes like you didn't know to even ask oh is there such a thing as a keto burrito and it's like yeah there is here it is boom you know burrito alternatives whatever so that's what i see with this is okay this replaces a 30 an hour person right and if you ever want to do back of the envelope math as a leader in a startup my trick is always 2 000 hours right the average person that's in 2 000 hours generally accepted practice so 30 buck an hour employees 60 000 you know you add 20 to that so it's 36 an hour whatever 36 times two you can easily do the math 72 000 a year whatever you start looking at that i think this replaces probably like that level of employee yep yeah you know now what's the next one it goes after so you have the resetting the automation And the third piece is globalization and people finding people offshore who maybe really want work.

16:38And so those are my three things. And the best way to think about what it goes after is look at the templates. Okay, let's see some templates here. YouTube video processor. Oh, SEO optimized article generator. These are exactly$30,$40 an hour jobs in my experience. And if you hire consultants, they tend to charge double. imagine i think you wanted one of these a linkedin profile process reads right you know warm oh my lord yes linkedin warmed reader oh this is incredible this is you know i was just doing this one right yeah oh this is stuff so now we we talked about this category business process outsourcing yeah bpo this is what happens in india this is what happens in the philippines there's been an entire industry of doing this now i think some of those people were doing their own scripts but now this you're going to be able to do this yourself so you know inbox categorizer uh inbox summarizer email order replier man this is next level um it is it is like they're literally atomizing people's jobs right and so they're atomizing people's jobs and so if you are the leader of a company and you want to do seo and blog posts and social media and whatever competitive analysis like i could see doing competitive analysis here like let's say there was another podcast about you know i'm a food podcast and you're a food podcast and we're competing against 10 other chef podcasts you could have this go out and summarize what the other chefs are doing then have the ai ask who are their guests make me a list of their guests you know which of their videos are breaking out above average and you can do competitive intelligence competitive intelligence boom wow i mean if you are going into the job market today this is a list of what you could avoid or this is a list of how you present yourself as the uh grim reaper yeah i'm coming to your startup as the grim reaper that mean you know the guy with the doors mean with like knocking on doors okay knock on the door for competitive analysis knock on the door for yeah whatever yeah what jobs are they coming for wow yeah i mean i give it an a boom congratulations i really also i think interface matters here yeah i could see this interface like the top 50 of my team members are good at this kind of interface yeah and that's one of the things i've tried to work on in my team is just please learn how to use zapier please it'll make me happier if you learn how to use zapier zapier i love zapier and i'm just constantly trying to get my team members to learn zapier or basic you know coda scripting notion scripting You've got some cool scripts that you told me, right?

19:16That take your expenses from your credit card and put them into your Slack and all that. I mean, it's really basic, but like just, you know, people - It's a game changer. It's a game changer. Like if we're doing an approval process, I worked on getting credit cards for my team members that can be turned on and turned off, like, you know, those categories of cards. And then I like to have them sent into a Slack room with that person and with, you know, the operations person. So then everybody sees your expenses as they're coming in. if you forgot and you subscribe to something, you know, and you subscribe to the wall street journal last year, but somebody else has a wall street journal and we don't need to and whatever, you know, at least we see it and they can have a conversation about it.

19:55Right. So transparency. Yeah. Really interesting stuff. Okay. All right. Let's keep going. Hey, well, start a strong start, strong start. It's hard to balance hiring top tier developers and keeping your burn rate under control. But these days, I see a ton of founders successfully doing this by hiring remote talent. So let me tell you about Scalable Path. It's a software staffing company that can help you build an awesome remote developer team. And the right developer isn't just a list of technical skills. We all know that. It's about their personality. It's about their work ethic, their motivation, and their fit within your team.

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21:05They know what they're doing. so you're going to be in great hands here's the best part twist listeners get 20 off their first month if you're ready to scale your dev team and your business check out scalablepath.com twist once again that domain name scalablepath.com twist 20 off so the next one this is super interesting let's put it like in a very similar category okay so this is called right exactly Exactly. I apologize to people. I apologize to people with jobs that we're saying are going away. So this one creates like these four types of basic analysis. You can do a business overview, competitive overview, financial review, or buyer's list for stocks.

21:50And so basically you put it in here. It's a loose site.app. And I'm going to have to share just a different window because its output is like a PowerPoint presentation. And so now, so I did this and I have a keynote presentation. here okay and i basically did nvidia and so i have this seven slide presentation that does nvidia competitive landscape so it's like gpu-based products these are the folks gaming products uh data center and cloud and you know basically feels accurate yeah i mean like let's look at it these are gpu competitors amd right intel makes sense you know these these are gaming folks that that are leveraging their ecosystem.

22:33And these are folks that compete within data center. Feels right. Then a little bit of a breakdown in each company for each section, valuations, and then recent M &A transactions. This is done by an AI. Took three minutes. Now, the question is, how much of this is correct? How much of it is hallucinating? And that really is kind of where I think the industry needs to get to, is there needs to be AI checking the facts of AIs. Is this true? and that's i i don't i haven't seen that but this would be a really good product would be an ai copilot that fact checks other copilots i know this sounds stupid that's very meta it's very meta but imagine there was a fact checking a copilot so i'm using microsoft copilot and i say give me the competitive analysis for nvidia and it gives it to me now i say to my fact checker please go into this report and check each of the facts and find me sources for it on the open web etc and tell me if there's things wrong and so that would be interesting is to take that pdf upload it to claude or chat jpt4 and say can you tell me if any of this is factually incorrect do you think it would be able to do anything like that yet or we're not there yet so i believe that the you know the foundational models are capable of doing this the challenge that they're running into is in order to fact check they have to use third-party data systems they haven't licensed and so yeah because you know in the training data they don't have like the current stock price of they're pulling it from some article somebody wrote previously in the open crawl index it's not correct yes and so in order to fact check it they have to subscribe to like a google finance api or Bloomberg or someone with an API.

24:23And that's where we haven't really crossed the chasm yet. And we've been talking about this where the closest is perplexity who has some data relationships, but no one's really fully done it with a real data provider. And I think the minute someone does that, we're going to really see a distinct jump in the capabilities. And I think everyone's been on the edge of it, but it feels like it's coming very soon. I think it's a great idea. Yeah, I would like to have a fact-checking API. So this is something in journalism or just in general, like, is this a true fact? So this is a request for startups here.

24:58Is this true? Is this true? Is this true.ai? It's a toolbar. It's a copilot. It's a system tray. And it is reading everything in real time, like Grammarly does. And it will tell us, it will just look at facts in the background and just try to independently determine if they're correct and you could i mean spelling is one thing that right is this word spelled correctly is something grammarly is doing grammarly is also doing is this you know is the comment the right place so here when we're looking at this nvidia financial snapshot i would like it to know this is nvidia no this is finance data so it says what is this okay this is nvidia's five-year historical chart yep and it says go find it and then compare it to this and that would be super interesting to me as a as a device um and then just highlight things it's something i've always wanted as a as a product or a service is a fact checking as a service and having a human plus ai do this would be really fascinating fact checking as a service i wonder if that is like a good startup idea this one i just shared both uh the the sheet and the google stock price i got the the stock sorry the apple stock stock price i just did the share there so i got those things accurate which were 721.28 it's it's at 0.3 and it got the market cap rate and then if i go back to the financials that's a little bit harder to do uh through these tools but yeah what is the name of this one lucite.app lucite l-u-c-i-t-e.app yeah i'm gonna give it a b okay i think it's like really a great start yeah the fastest way to produce investment banking style materials it's a great idea remember i was talking before about these kind of projects and you know the dollar amount of the employee it's replacing now we've gotten to uh you know a hundred thousand dollar employee like an analyst at a bank who makes these slides and so i pulled this one up oh my god yeah this goes back to your previous point mckinsey puts 3 000 staffers on review citing concerns over performance as the recently frothy consulting business slows yeah i mean if people don't read consulting reports and the consulting reports are just a hodgepodge of web research well you might as well just run it through chat gpt or you've got an example right from all the stuff you've ever made so you've got a corpus and then you can just let train an ai on that and say go make things that look like this you know what's interesting about lucite is that's what they did right they trained and said these are like the five different basic you know investment banking um style presentations make them for us right they they had the templates and they made a verticalized tool to just focus on that yeah just like we have a company saga um that is doing just screenplays and storyboards and i told them i was like you know this whole ai wrapper thing is nonsense you're building a verticalized app you're going to build so much on top of it that you know it'll it'd be like going to google and saying you could do a spreadsheet at google like you could use google search to do a math equation right you can put a math equation in the search box or you could use google to search for flights or whatever but that doesn't mean you're not going to do expedia kayak or a google sheet or microsoft expel thing like you can get some basic functionality done with chat gpt4 or claude but if you verticalize this man they can really really refine it and build features around it like fact checking like collaboration tools etc so i love these vertical eyes i mean if the ai wrapper vertical i think it's going to be very big i think it's going to be awesome it's going to be huge yeah i think so as well yeah but that's where we're going okay so i give this b i like it okay Yeah, I like it.

28:51It's very solid. I'm like B plus, you know, like I was probably higher, but I like the idea you said. If there could be a way that it could verify that the data is correct. Because now the fear you have is citations. I think that would be really good. I mean, it's like really cool. It creates a deck. Time is money. It's a really nice. Yeah. All right. Good job, BlueSide. B2B marketing is not an easy job. It's much different than B2C. Why? Well, enterprise buying cycles are much longer. It's not like you see some cool mug and you buy it as a consumer. No, enterprise buying cycles are long and it's hard to find and reach decision makers through most marketing channels.

29:25We all know that. So that's why you need to check out LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn recently passed a billion users, which includes 180 million senior executives. That's right. About 18 % are senior executives. But there's also 10 million C-suite executives on LinkedIn. CEOs, CFOs, CTOs, chief strategy officers, you know who I'm talking about. This means you can find and target these decision makers in a respectful environment, LinkedIn. And according to LinkedIn, their ads platform generated 2 to 5x higher return on ad spend when compared to other social media platforms. And it's easy to understand why.

29:58LinkedIn equals business, business equals LinkedIn, you understand this. When people are on LinkedIn, they're there to do business. They're not there to talk about politics or pop culture. They're there to do business, right? So your business message is going to be in the right place. make b2b marketing everything it can be and get a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign go to linkedin.com slash this week in startups to claim your credit that's linkedin.com slash this week in startups terms and conditions do apply jake no this is going to be a two-part demo two part i like it well our friends at google released gemini ultra explain what that is to the audience because i saw this yeah um and i was a little confused about what's the difference between gemini ultra and google bard and then i saw a bunch of people were losing their shit that they got access to ultra gemini ultra yeah on like their google app okay so there's a few different things bard's been renamed to gemini.google.com okay fyi okay then gemini advance which is and this is where this is gets a little bit wonky gives you access to Gemini Ultra 1.0.

31:02Ultra 1.0 is their most advanced model, which is great. The issue that I have is I have a Gmail account that's tied to a Google Fi account. I'm going to pull this up here and this is like totally wild. It's crazy because there's no way to try it. So when I go here and I go Gemini Advanced, which I want to try, and I go upgrade, I get this crazy message saying Google One's not available, although I'm a Google One customer. Huh. Because if you're a Google One customer through Google Fi, so I'm going to hand this one over to you, J. Cal. Okay. If you can go to gemini.google.com and see if you can pull it up, then we can try out Gemini Ultra together or a Gemini Advance, which is Gemini Ultra.

31:48Okay. So Bard is now Gemini. I got that alert on my Gmail account, but I don't see Ultra. You should be able to click beside the hamburger. There should be a little down arrow beside Gemini. Oh, it says upgrade Gemini advance. I click upgrade. It takes me to Google one. Oh, here we go. $19. Yes. So you got to pay$19 after. So I start my trial for Gemini events. Okay. So now they have a chat GPT for a competitor. Yes. And, uh, okay. So I subscribe and let's see what happens here. And so I haven't been able to try this one because this is my little bit gripe to Google. So I got to give it a really low grade because there's no way for me to subscribe and try it.

32:25So you've got to, you've got to do this demo. Okay. Here I am. How can I help you today? Okay. I'm in. There you go. Yeah. All right. So what should I do as a search here? What would be, how would we test this? Well, we just did NVIDIA competitors, right? Yeah. Uh, make me a table with NVIDIA's top competitors and the most important information about them. So I told it to make me a table and we got a little spinning, uh, Gemini wheel. so see if it even understands the table absolutely and padded our amd yeah i mean it's yeah yeah but like you know not great um how about what's what's cool is like lucite did a better job that's what's interesting i did a better job so this shows you how vertical apps are doing better than just man line what are some event spaces in napa i can use for a 200 person corporate retreat you know i met with a company that is doing like an ai for event planning and i've been using event planning so here it goes it's going to google maps for some reason and uh let's see it's giving me web pages so this is like a google search uh no that's not what i wanted terrible answer searching the web here are some results yeah give me 10 great locations to host a corporate off-site for 200 executives in Napa slash wine country.

33:55Put the slash wine country there to see if I can fuse it. Let's see if it gives me 10. I mean, I'm giving a very explicit instructions here. I mean, so far, this is a total fail. Yeah. I mean, like, literally wasting my time. I could have gone to the web. I mean, if I wanted to do a Google search, I would have done it. Yeah. One of the things that it's meant to be really good at is multimodal. So maybe ask it a question where it's, you know, bringing back some images or some ideas. Well, here it did. It did do a map of some items. It didn't give me 10. It didn't give me a number list. These are not very good.

34:26Yeah. This is not a very good result. It's doing what I intended it to do. It just didn't give me the fidelity of results I wanted. Like if I were to ask an event producer for this information, I would have gotten a much better result. Like a human could do this much better. This is random. Maybe try your burrito example and ask it for, yeah, like, you know, something like that. or sushi restaurants what are some great sushi restaurants with omokasa in the bay yeah these are like things you would search google for right and you wanted to give you the answer you don't want to deal with all the links and everything else right so yeah no so i mean yeah this is okay it's hitting google maps again uh yeah not great which restaurants have peking duck in the bay area let's see if i got like a peking i'm getting very specific i'm getting a dish right maybe they'll show me photos of the dish yeah same nonsense i would have been better just doing a google search what are the top peking duck dishes in the world at four star restaurants show me five to ten photos so again multi-modo trying to get this i mean yeah we gotta i think we're gonna have to sit sundar down again remember i told him he's gonna have to bring people in and do these searches in front of them he fixed the name yeah i mean it's fixing the name is not as important as fixing the answers i mean this is also slow yeah oh man yeah this isn't good yep i mean maybe hakusan i did get hakusan i do think hakusan is one of the top peaking duck places in the world mat32 okay wait this is more promising okay i take it back if you had asked me the best peaking duck in the world i would have said mat32 and i would have said hakusan i'm both known for having like very elite peaking duck and it did give me the picture so this is slightly better i will say like generally speaking continue to be disappointed and they need to do more work on this i'll give gemini like a b nah i'll give it a c plus oh okay yeah i just don't feel like it understands what i'm asking here and i'm asking it very google centric versions of this and it feels like they're just not not getting it right enough it's like it's like close maybe it's a b minus i'm gonna go b minus and unfortunately i'm not i can't grade it because i can't try it and they got to fix that too i mean there i feel like google is needs to lay off another 10 000 people i mean i don't mean to be cruel but i just feel like it's still bloated and like not elite teams building elite product you know i feel like facebook and chat gpt microsoft tesla twitter like more elite teams and i just don't feel like this like google has eliteness going on right now it's not elite enough for my expectation of google this is where sergue samurai sergue's got to get in here and just high expectations right now yeah for sure my expectations of google are real i think that's why i'm giving it lower grades is because i've got higher expectations of google than anybody else well i want to try it so i'll reserve to come back next week so if someone is listening or watching and you're in google please what's going on i want to pay you 20 to try it out but i mean this is the thing you know what they have so much bruffed at google i know how this happens like they're like oh okay we have this and i brought this up with sundar one time where i was like listen i did i said you know you treat google domains as second-class citizens when we're paying you for google docs right like yeah if i've got my company at google docs and then i try to use google fi it's like no you have to have a gmail account use your personal gmail it's like you're taking your best customers and you're making us jump through goddamn hoops so now if i want to use google file my org you're making me tell everybody to use their personal ones and then i don't have control over it as the you know but i'm paying you for this like why is there a separation between the and i understand why there's a separation between the name spaces but like this is the same thing that happened with nest you know like you want to use google docs with nest you can't do or whatever google home yeah yeah it's just the interoperability and i mean maybe this is just what happens when companies get too big and there's too many product lines and cruft and stuff like that but they have to simplify this and make it easier it should be so easy pretty straightforward i'm i'm surprised that that's happening right and you know um yeah the error message is fake please someone get in touch we'll try it out we'll do another demo another demo we'll give you another shot i mean but yeah gemini advanced i'm just not feeling it yet what was your grade again i'm gonna give it officially a b minus okay officially a b minus but officially a b minus you're officially i can't grade it i you know i can't really give it a grade so you know but i want to and i'll you know like everything else i played with it before i just couldn't do it so yeah let's keep our round table going here and you got another one for us yeah i do and this should give startups a lot of hope yeah big companies with their unlimited resources trip over themselves and we saw two companies lucite and agent hub are much better products than the mighty google's gemini you're so just to give those two companies their flowers like google can't get out of their way to compete with you yet now they might figure it out eventually and just like take some giant leap forward but keep being scrappy startups you can you can beat google you can be chat gpt you can beat microsoft you can beat you know apple you can beat all the meta you can beat them all just by being scrappier and focusing on the customer experience everything is changing just do it two more quick ones okay two more quick ones here we go lightning right so the next one really cool i actually just saw this earlier today on twitter friend eric vitria i think he funded it over at benchmark and basically it does pcb layout using ai and so we're not going to do a layout here but you know there's try instant example and it gives you some very popular things i can say i want to do this arduino you've seen these things right i'm sure you've had some this hard work just explain what it is yeah what an arduino so arduino is like an open source design to run uh android right it's like a open source computer that you can like build off of the standard and it's got things like a usbc port and exactly you know uh whatever hdmi and memory so it's like a computer on a stick arduino is like a computer on a stick that hackers would use yes but here you're taking an arduino and well this is so when you're creating this is you know again we're going verticalized again when you're creating the pcb that's what the chip and all the surrounding components go on the usb this uses ai to do the layout of the pcb and this is a four-layer pcb that has you know these rules put in and it did a bunch of different candidates which is this candidate can be produced by the most fabs this candidate has the fewest layers this one has the shortest number of traces and all these things are factors in you know when you're when you're making hardware who like who's capable of making it more layers more expensive shorter traces means you know everything is closer together wow like to see this being done by ai is wicked yeah and so this is where the flywheel gets out of control because you have ai building the hardware that could fuel and enable future ai models now it's doing this with arduinos yes not nvidia chips or not and the pcb not the chips it's just the pcb or the board that they go on right and right but you know it will eventually be ai all the way down and so at some point this ai will be pointed at chip manufacturing and PCBs and everything else and it's just going to it's going to have I think the first phase will be able to have insights that'll inspire humans you know and save them time in making this stuff but then at some point it's going to have breakthroughs right you know I'm saying like insights are different than breakthroughs or efficiency is different than insights is different than breakthroughs so this to me is an efficiency play right like the person who's making these is going to be much more efficient at their job correct and could be breakthroughs because the AI can think of things in those different ways as well.

42:57So you can have it efficiency plus breakthrough. You can grow on both dimensions. Yeah. But do you think it's actually doing more than efficiency and insights? And is that the breakthrough level yet? I mean, we'd have to ask them or we'd have to pull someone in. So I think you should have these folks on because, you know, look, I'm not an expert in, in PCB. Just tweet at us, just tweet at the TWI startups account when we put the clip up and just, let's start these conversations on x so x.com slash sandeep slash jason slash twi startups if this is your company or we mentioned your company when we put the video clip up or you can take the clip and put it up on your handle follow up with us and let's start the discussion on x to just keep these demos moving what do we get right what do we get wrong and where are you headed with us and my question is you know has this thing had a an insight or breakthroughs yeah not just efficiency right and and so i'd love to hear that but when you think about it like i was i was talking about saga this you know screenplay writing software it's giving people insights and breakthroughs right you put in your screenplay or you say hey this is the tv show i want to make it's going to be nine episodes i want this character arc and i just gave it like well i want to do the sopranos plus blade runner you know i want to have like a mafia story and i want it to be a mafia story in a cyberpunk mafia story seems pretty interesting to me like a crime family in the blade runner setting right so just it would be pretty dope right yeah like who's tony soprano in blade runner you know and what are they doing and what's their crimes and you know well what are they trafficking in right are they doing my version of that is modern seinfelds like when i just want to entertain myself i just have one of these just write a modern seinfeld episode and so for a writer who's in there like it's going to give you insights that you know i was talking to the founder of saga and he's like you know i was like how do people get these insights currently it's like you know they're in the shower they watch movies they read books they go on long walks you know and that's why you know a great screenplay might take a human two or three years but if you're sitting here using you know some verticalized ai maybe you get a really cool insight with the ai helping you oh yeah you know we should make an anti-hero oh no what if it was a female lead oh no what if it was you know this person double crossed them you know and it might have taken the creative sopranos to have the relationship with the mother and tony soprano and the psychiatrist like those were incredible breakthroughs that he had i don't know how long it took to david chase like to come up with those but you know maybe you you know he could have had seven other ideas for sopranos episodes right um that would be really interesting i would love to watch more sopranos episodes and if they could do it all in ai and give me oh man oh man to get one more season of sopranos or just to fill in one episode per season just give the ai you know i don't know how many seasons it lasted but it was it was under 10 i think just give it each season and just say can you give me 10 more minutes per episode of awesomeness and i could watch it with some things i didn't remember but 10 more minutes of backstory oh give me like so good it would just be so like that would fill my bucket i would fill my bucket i would be really happy and that's what i think like you know we're on the cusp of here is like yeah so anyway i give this a i give this a b plus just for efficiency i'm not even going inside i think it's a hard problem i think it's a very hard problem yeah i'm a neophyte in this ai being used okay all right last one last one so So Apple this week released a model designed for modifying images.

46:38Oh, right. We had talked about that. This was coming. Yes. And so the reason, yeah, exactly. And so the reason I want to show this is we can imagine, because we have a bet going on, what we're going to get in the next iPhone. And so basically, you know, I took a picture and I won't run it here. And I just did a simple one, remove the background. And what this model does is two interesting things. it removed the background and it also kind of gives the expressive instruction around what was required there so we've seen things like this before but apple coming out and putting this out there means it's a little teaser it's a new way to do a teaser to the breadcrumbs yes of what's coming our way follow the breadcrumbs so apple is doing maggie maggie is their image processing open source uh ai yep you can do things like their model if they're building this model and they're doing it that means you're going to be able to go into apple photos on iphone 16 i would predict yeah and say hey for this photo can you remove the background can you brighten the faces and can you yeah whatever you know uh make it crispier or something or change give me some ideas of better lighting and that would be built into the iphone and they'll probably have an ai chip or your maggie will be built into your phone so you don't have to go up to the cloud to do this yeah oh that's what you believe you believe this will run on a phone yeah and that's part of our bet for whatever it is june 1st exactly right this week in startups.com slash bets you can look up our bets but yeah so this is going to be down to the wire we know that it's coming yes just explain to the audience what it means to have a language model slash language model plus chipset that can do this kind of stuff on a phone what would that mean you know for consumers you know what does that unlock why is it important explain it to people well i think we're gonna get the following i think you can get like sort of unlimited memes and so i think you were trying you were asking about this in one of our chats the other day and so i just did this right now to give the man a mustache yeah so how about give uh him a mustache uh give him a goatee that looks realistic that's not funny you know like an actual because he gave me like a character mustache but give it a ted lasso mustache that would be funny give the man a ted lasso mustache yeah this would be interesting if it knows what ted lasso is yeah here it goes and it's running what is this running on your macbook or in the cloud no this is someone just posted this on hugging face exactly it's a hugging face running this and it's taking looks like about 30 seconds to do it and it gave me more work to do um but that's what's cool because they're putting it out there because they're going to get this feedback and that's a different thing from apple and it shows what generative ai is about you can't do everything inside a box you've got to be open you got to embrace open source, got to get feedback from the developers.

49:42Open source is going to win. Open source is going to win. You heard it here first. I think that what this means is like stable diffusion at 10 billion or whatever. I don't know what valuation they had, but these models are going to be open source. And if they're open source and remember, open AI went closed AI and they're not giving the code or the weights, right? The only person who has the code and the weights is Microsoft because they put 10 billion in. Because of their deal, correct. Because of their deal. So Microsoft has the source code i think and the weights yes from open ai that's the reports now meta and apple two of the magnificent seven are putting all of this out open source google is not open sourcing their gemini barred stuff right that's proprietary amazon doesn't have a large language model they might be participating with other folks yep uh so and tesla's model for self-driving is obviously proprietary i don't think that that's open source it can't be so the question is does microsoft versus chat gpt beat can chat gpt open ai and microsoft that duopoly can they beat apple and meta open source your answer no wow wow stunning yep snap snap you snapped it you called you shove all the chips in you believe meta and apple will beat the mighty microsoft open ai duopoly and look we've seen this movie before operating systems microsoft you know sun all that seeds to linux right from what's powering almost everything out there's some some type of linux base right saw it in databases we saw it in you know programming languages we've seen this movie through our entire history.

51:32It's very hard to have a proprietary platform model beat an open source one. Now, for desktops, Microsoft Windows and Apple's, Apple's is built off of open source. It's like a Unix base, BSD base, I believe. But Android's open source, right? And it seems to me... Android dominates the world in terms of phone. Yes. Apple gets all the profit from iOS being closed, but I think that was sort of um you can't win it every time yeah yeah you can't expect it to win every time but in this case i think i have to agree with you because knowing what i know about startups if you're a startup yeah you're going to use the best product available which is chat gpt4 right now but long term you're not going to want to be tied to their whims and they could change the rules on you and And so you're going to probably, which would be like, you know, like, listen, Oracle's great.

52:29Oracle databases run like some very sophisticated stuff, but I watched as startups used Hadoop, whatever, uh, my SQL, you know, there's a whole series of open source database stuff. And so, you know, to see a, Oh, there you go. Put some glasses on them. What kind of glasses are those? I don't know. Oh, we just want to put sunglasses on. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think Apple doing this is, um, if you're behind, you go open source. is what I've always said. If you were trying to catch up, you want to create chaos and you go open source. So I think Apple and Meta are behind, so they go open source.

53:03And they also have lock-in with their brands. So it makes total sense. What did you think? I didn't see the Microsoft Copilot ad. There was a Copilot ad? How was it? It basically was a direct competitor to, oh my God, that is not sun. Whoa. Ray-Ban sunglasses. Oh, you know, you have sun. Yeah. You don't have sunglasses, so give me sun eyes. Because you should be able to create them on your phone. Laser eyes. yeah so what it's going directly after what what is microsoft copilot going directly after chat gpt like it's a it's a full experience that you couldn't really differentiate at all so now i'm gonna have to make a decision am i paying for microsoft copilot am i paying for claude yeah poe or chat gpt or gemini because now i'm paying for all of them correct correct that's where we're going isn't it's so weird that copilot microsoft copilot is built off of chat gpt4 here yeah oh here we go yeah yeah i didn't see it let me tell you we could keep keep talking but like i just don't know here we go or build something yeah yeah oh oh oh oh uh they say i'm too old to learn something new yeah too young to change the world yeah so they're really going after the consumer use case right that's what we're seeing here is they want to go after the consumer this is all you know generate images uh yep here we go yep right my color for my 3d game wow they're literally just basically quiz me in organic chemistry so when you see this did they pull the rug out from chat gpt by buying into it and saying we have the rights to it we're going to make a consumer product and then try to beat them with the consumer because it's the same product with a different wrapper and microsoft has massive distribution chat gpt doesn't correct i think that's the case and you know the only thing we don't know is you know the deal that they've struck is it for every model going forward or is it just for the existing models is it just for the next one i think what's going to be really interesting in that relationship especially after seeing that ad is how they coexist because before what was being sort of outlined was Microsoft was going to do enterprise stuff and open AI would go after startups plus the consumer.

55:24Now it's, you know, game on, game on, game on. And is Microsoft charging for copilot? Is it like 20 bucks a month, right? Heads up against chat GPT, or are they going to just make it free and just, I think it's been free so far. I don't know if they have a plan, but so far it's been free. So if you're willing to go get a Microsoft login and do that, it's been free. So you don't have to use, you know, GPT-4. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting, like as a chess board, because remember this also when Sam Altman was ousted as CEO for 15 minutes, they were all going to go work at Microsoft.

56:00So Satya was going to hire them all, which means Satya, maybe Satya is hiring them all, or maybe he's just hiring people. And then he builds up his team. and then when he gets the team to a certain level it doesn't matter so maybe like he did this interim deal i put 10 billion into it but i know this is a trillion dollar opportunity yeah so i just get the code base i get the weights and then i just replicate it and build something better yeah very fascinating very fascinating times yeah well and then also you just think about bundling right microsoft bundled the browser and we've seen this movie before so they bundle copilot and it's just like it's everywhere because i got the little co-pilot on my desktop my windows desktop and then apple if it's just built into the operating system i don't know if apple's going to just make siri their co-pilot and then where's amazon and all this with alexa why can't amazon get alexa they i mean shouldn't they just rebuild alexa with a language model and just start over there was an article a little bit recently they let go of a huge chunk of the alexa team right um yeah And I think that's what they must be doing, right?

57:07They must be preparing. Yeah. Perfect example of being too early, right? Siri and Alexa were too early and didn't work. And they worked in like constrained environments. Did you get a Vision Pro yet? Apple Vision Pro yet? No, you know, I listened to you on the pod. I'm picking mine up. So I did the same thing and I went to the Apple store to buy it, which they would let me buy it, but they wouldn't let me try it. And I said, well, can I just try it? And it's kind of like, I was a little bit like - Perturbed? yeah like i'm like you want me to spend 3400 and they're like it was on the saturday and i came out on the friday so they have them available because they're expensive and i was like i'm willing to do it and you know i i built i think we should do it i'm getting mine just go buy it if you want i'll pay for yours um so oh yeah sure i said thank you for you uh i said thank you for you doing this and i don't pay you for this you're getting a lot out of it with your uh but i get more out of it i think so i will pay for you submit an invoice to us and we will pay for yours but you got to use it and i want to incorporate mondays will be ai and vision pro demos going forward vision three okay four ais one vision pro how about that is that a good ratio four to one three to two okay but i just want to because i think it's the real deal after hearing friedberg who's like a you know he's a bit of a weirdo you know um i mean that in a good way you know like freeberg's got a good sense for like weird shit i think and a good use case like for work and see i'm going with freeberg on this one i think freeberg knows what he's talking about he and um i think you and i doing the demos for both of these emerging platforms every monday makes us even more people tell me that mondays are essential listening for this week in startups and if we do this maybe i mean you're you're gonna wind up being the co-host here because it might be we have to do vision pro one day and ai one day and you're gonna get nothing done like me you just be doing podcasts constantly i mean yeah yeah well go pick it up buy it send us the bill i'll pay for it and then we don't have to you don't have to have the cognitive i was ready i was ready to buy it i just wanted to demo it i was like let me try it out i know i just don't want that don't be you know i get it i get what you're saying but you know it's kind of like we got to make the jump here it's clear that something's going on with this okay there's something going on with it and i think it's a desktop replacement that's what my position has always been is this is a desktop educational replacement i think yeah you know and then let's see if we can do an episode okay inside of it let's see actually here's what we do this is what we should attempt for next week yeah we do the ai demos inside of the vision pro and we release it so like idiots we wear the we wear the goggles on zoom on our desktops but we do the demos i don't know if there's a facetime feature or zoom inside of it it renders your face and all that yeah but Could we do the demos and record the demos inside of our Vision Pros and then stitch it together?

59:59So like the demos we did today, you and I looking. Yeah, they would be on like a screen or something, right? Yeah, it'd probably look terrible for the audience, but it'd be interesting. We'll give it a try. We'll have to do some prep. Okay. We'll have to do some prep. We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.