Best of CES recap with Sunny Madra | E1880

0:00We saw some big companies show up with advancements in AI. So let's start with the biggest announcement I believe that got the most coverage this week. This is this new device called the Rabbit. You know, it's the size of like, you remember back in the day, there's that T-Mobile sidekick thing. Yeah, like a handheld device that's smaller than a phone, maybe a little wider than a phone, but essentially it fits in the palm of your hand. Yes. Exactly. This has a very iconic orange color with a screen on it, and it feels like a real hardware device, like a form factor, right? It's got a form factor to it that's very unique.

0:35Exactly. And it definitely got the most press and it got the most buzz. Now, I don't know why it got the most buzz, but let's get into it. This Week in Startups is brought to you by Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business. Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. Twist listeners can get$1 ,000 off for a limited time at vanta.com slash twist. Mev. Tired of the dev shop rollercoaster? Mev is your reliable technical partner offering a well-established software development process designed to consistently deliver unparalleled value to their clients.

1:14Get$30 ,000 off your first three months at mev.com slash twist. And Imagine AI Live is an AI conference where you'll learn how to apply AI in your business directly from the people who build and use these tools. It's taking place March 27th and 28th in Las Vegas, and Twist listeners can get 20 % off their tickets at imagineai.live.twist. All right, everybody, welcome back. It's Madra Mondays. We're here on This Week in Startups with my guy, Sandeep Sunny Madra. And we've got a lot to demo, don't we, today? We do. And 2024 is coming at us really, really fast. The breakneck pace, AI everywhere, and two big things last week.

2:02And we'll start with the first one, which is CES. And so before we get into it, like at a high level, and there was a bunch of different articles that came out, and people were talking about at CES this year, AI was everywhere. and uh you know just kind of pull out this one article i think it was from the verge and saying there was almost too much ai and i don't think that's the case you know we've been through these arcs before we were there in the mobile revolution that kind of kicked off with the iphone and we've been there with cloud services and now we're there again with ai yeah we're really seeing like huge advancements in a lot of different ways and um let's just kind of get into some of the big ones Yeah, for people who don't know, Consumer Electronics Show has been going on forever.

2:46They typically just show gadgets. They went into a little diversion where they got into cars for a bit. I think the cars may or may not be back. So if you think about CES, it happens in Vegas, it happens in January. Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people now. I used to go, as a matter of course, because of the Engadget blog we had started. And then it kind of receded a bit, but it's now seems to be coming back post-COVID. Yeah, there was big crowds and a lot of announcements of new products. And it's usually, though, hardware. Consumer electronic is the key to this, but software now is trumping the hardware, I guess, in many ways.

3:23It is. And, you know, one of the things that they're evolving to is as new technology comes out, they really kind of bring together the combination of hardware and software. and obviously in its core, in its most core way, but then they also bring like a great place for companies to launch. We saw really good launches there and we saw some big companies show up with advancements in AI. So let's just double click in. All right, let's start with the biggest announcement I believe that got the most coverage this week. And it's gonna be worth a nice discussion here. This is this new device called the Rabbit.

3:59You know, it's the size of like, you remember back in the day, is that T-Mobile sidekick thing. Yeah, like a handheld device that's smaller than a phone, maybe a little wider than a phone, but essentially it fits in the palm of your hand. Yes. Exactly. And very simple, a camera that can kind of flip around and one scroll wheel. A scroll wheel that, yeah, you can flip up and down, kind of reminiscent of the round one that was on the iPod, which then disappeared. So this feels, this has a very iconic orange color with a screen on it. And it feels like a real hardware device, like a form factor, right?

4:37It's got a form factor to it that's very unique. Exactly. And it definitely got the most press and it got the most buzz. Now, I don't know why it got the most buzz, but let's get into it. It got the buzz for three distinct reasons. One, the company behind it, they not only released the device, but they came up with their own large language model. Okay. And what they did with their large language model is that they've kind of tuned and customized the model to be very good at interacting with your existing services. And so this device sort of sits with its language model on top of your Spotify account, on top of your Gmail account, on top of your Uber account.

5:21Uber or Dash. Door Dash as well. And they brought all those examples in here. And so what they really talk about is this is the first time that like there's been a hardware device coupled with its own language model. So not building on top of any of the ones that we've seen and basically bringing that all together as a as like sort of one cohesive experience. And so, so that's the first thing that's unique about this is that it is a large language model that they made that interfaces seamlessly with your favorite apps slash services. Correct. Got it. Okay. And so by doing so, and you nailed it with your kind of food example, they have a lot of these examples.

6:06We're not going to play their 45 minute video, but you know, if you go here, I'll just play the short one here. Get me a 12-inch pizza from Pizza Hut delivered to here. The most ordered option on the app is fine. Ordering a 12-inch pizza from Pizza Hut. And so you can basically understand what happens here. And so what I really think what's interesting is this combination of custom hardware with custom LLM that lives on top of all your services. And in many ways, what this does is it starts to take, I guess, an angle of attack to this training problem that we've been talking about the last couple of weeks with going after people's data.

6:43In this case, if I explicitly connected to all these services, then I'm not really running into that problem in the same way that we've seen it before. Got it. So the first thing is the large language model. What are the second and third components of this that you think got at the buzz? I think the form factor. Okay, that's number two, clearly. is unique okay and then i think you know sort of the price point you know it's 200 i think they really kind of came in at like a absurd yeah exactly quite you know it's let's be honest it's absurd and there's no subscription for each of their language model which also is confounding um so it's got an interesting form factor they built their own purpose-built large language model to specifically help you navigate services.

7:33And this is kind of what we hoped Siri would be. And it's kind of what we hope ChatGPT's app would be. But GPT's app does not let you connect to apps. And Siri does, let's face it, a modest job. I don't know, 10 years in. When was Siri launched? Yeah. I mean, it's been around for closer to 10 than five years. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. You still try to get Siri to play a song on a playlist or to navigate using Waze or to book a reservation. None of that stuff works very well. I will say Spotify does work now. You know, if you ask it, hey, play this playlist on Spotify, I would say two out of three times it works.

8:16But, you know, that started October 4th, 2011, I think, is when it was launched. So that's when Siri was released. So we're in year 14 of Siri not working well. Yeah. And the fact that like a small startup is able to create a device and the backend experience shows how much work Apple has to put in, or maybe they're putting it in and we'll see it in their next keynote in order to give us what we've always wanted. Now, the question for me is always, you see these keynotes and those are canned examples. It's probably a canned, not live demo. And as we know, when we review stuff here on this week in startups and we do our little reviews here and we will get a we will get these and we will do live reviews what they show is something that is a sniper shot it's a bullseye and then when you get it in the real world if i ask it hey can you get me some sushi give me the most you know ordered stuff it's going to send me eight miso soups and three edamames and no sushi because it yeah misinterprets that right all right so you know what's crazy is basically uh it's sold out and when it sold out i think it had 10 000 pre-orders ended with 30 ,000 but then a couple of really clever engineers and you know someone we've demoed some of this up before alvaro here he basically went and rebuilt it as an eiffel app and so back ended by the llm of your choice and you know operating and so i'll kind of just run this quick demo where um uh you know he kind of does this here so we'll play this call tom and confirm our reservation and so it's gonna you know click it's gonna click out it's gonna call tom Give me one moment while I call him.

9:53And so what's incredible, and he does a few different other demos in here. And so really, you know, what is this saying, J-Cal? Like, I already have a device. It's, you know, super powerful. It already can run applications. And so to me, when I saw this, that's going to be the challenge for them. Unless they kind of go and offer both to everyone and say, if you really want like a smaller device because you don't want to be distracted by your phone, you're going out on the night, go and do that. or you don't want any of that. You don't want any of that expense. Just come and get our iPhone app and pay for it.

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11:33I love a purpose-built device when it is for a specific vertical and it really helps solve that problem. The one I can think of is the GoPro or the Insta360. You know, if you're going skiing, if you're a surfer, you You know, your iPhone, yes, you could buy different things to, you know, strap your iPhone or smartphone to your body. But those purpose built devices that have motion stabilization, etc. They work really well, correct? For that specific purpose. So does it mean that 99.59 % of videos taken in the world are going to be just perfect on your iPhone? But it does mean for skiing and for surfing, you know, this is a much more preferred device.

12:11And so the question is, is ordering your Uber going to be distinctly better because of the form factor? And I don't think the answer to that is yes. Yeah. So what is this form factor? And I would put the humane, I haven't used it, so I always like to reserve judgment until I use it. The humane pin that you wear, that you put your hand out and like that's supposed to be better. But, you know, you see it's kind of heavy. so i love the idea of wearables but i don't know if that one actually is purpose-built for that now i will say my ultra watch which is the first passable apple watch in my mind i think the other versions were all garbage is absolutely purpose-built for me to look at my ski runs or my height you know exercising my heart rate to take my heart rate it does something unique in this form factor so yeah and it's also great for getting a message without taking the phone out of my pocket in a meeting you can leave the house for the entire day with your apple watch yeah you can maybe you can you've done it i'm gonna try it i'm gonna i haven't put my uh i haven't turned on a service because that's like 10 bucks extra a month um or something yeah yeah you gotta add it to your 18 i didn't add it to my bill yet i'm gonna do that i just yeah for some reason i was like i don't need it but i think actually that would be good if my battery died on my iphone so yeah you can i i do know people go running with just their watch you can pair your airpods with your airpods you can make phone calls you can then do all your voice to text and all that like you can do it it can happen yeah so i mean that's and i see that more as a backup than a primary but i do see the health stuff on the watch and the working out stuff as a primary not a secondary so is this primary for anything i think the answer is no the question i have is why is everybody so afraid to consummate a transaction with an llm i think it's because of like who's responsible for the wrong thing being ordered yeah you've been able to use alexa to order coffee for a long time people don't do it the concept of getting the wrong thing and buying the wrong thing is just too scary for people just like ordering on the internet was too scary for people so i don't think people feel confident in it but eventually saying reorder the coffee i ordered last time on these devices would be good or hey just get me four cheeseburgers you know from in and out no onions on any of them you want to order the philhamia yeah give me four things from the melt and uh i'm only gonna eat half of each so i'm only eating two sandwiches why do you think that is why do you think people or app developers are not consummating transactions and taking that leap of faith that it could be done amazon did it but apple won't and chat gpt4 won't yeah i think what happened is you know there's three layers what happened i think it just wasn't as good in the ecosystem prior to llms and i think llms when they do it it's magical but they still hallucinate so before you had this problem of like it just wouldn't really work and it was like too structured like if you wanted to get your order you'd have to be like you know Alexa from DoorDash order, you know, you have to kind of really structure it like a robot, right?

15:20And then Siri would never just do it. Now LLMs can pull it off, but they require kind of extra fine tuning or it's kind of like creating like a custom model. So I think we're very close to getting that magical experience where you can see - Who is going to be responsible for it, the language model or the app developer and the e-commerce provider is it uber eats and doordash's job to get this right or is it chat gpt bard etc his job to get this right in your mind it's a great it's a great question i'll answer in a slightly different way i think the app developers are going to get it right before the the you know the large language models the large language model folks do because because they have the data exactly right they have the corpus of data they know how people are going to want to interact with they and how they mess up and how they do all that so all right so here's what i want stanley yep you're listening from doordash uh and uh dara from uber eats here's what i want to do i want to come in and say show me dinner for our five and our family which you know is two adults and three uh kids uh two of them who are seven one who's 14 and um give me some options for japanese food and just show me a cart already filled with stuff right and then i say but never give us onions and never give us spicy stuff because or only give us only one of us like spicy and so then if it was like hey here's your cart from your japanese restaurant here's your cart from this restaurant here's your cart from this restaurant and then you could start with a filled cart of items and then maybe say you know i looked at that you know what swap out the uni i'm not a fan of uni but you know give us uh more salmon you know double the salmon less um or give us less exotic pieces of sushi give us more basic sushi for the kids yeah and it just does a great job now because it has like that reorder and they have that all kind of they've got all the data going back to our point yeah exactly uh just like you could say to spotify hey give me a playlist of 70s road trip music and it's going to find a 70s road trip playlist it doesn't exactly understand that but or maybe it does i don't know because didn't spotify have their own assistant built in at some point they created their own siri you know everyone has tried but in the same way that siri has failed in the same way google assistants never worked the effectiveness that we get with an llm based one is we haven't seen it fully coupled together yet got it all right well this would be probably some this is the opportunity for 2024 yeah i think i give a lot of kudos to the rabbit team for being creative.

18:02I don't think it's going to work. I think it's going to be like one of these devices that historically, you know, just doesn't find a niche for itself. It's just too, but I do love the fact that they're bold and they put it out for$199, which means they're going to probably lose money on this thing. There's no subscription to it. I guess you can put in your own SIM card. It just feels to me like this thing's not going to work and everybody's going to want it to work like a phone. So why not just have the phones catch up here? Yeah. Yeah. In terms of grading it, I think the way that they've built the service, at least the way they showed in the demo where you can log in and connect all your apps, I really give them an A for that.

18:40They really nailed that. It's well done. No one has done that at all, like OpenAI or Bard or anyone else, right? The authentication of your Spotify, your DoorDash, and your Uber works well. Can I ask you a question? Was it clear if that happens on your desktop with a keyboard so it's easy to do? Yeah, it happens on your desktop. I was trying to find that in the video. I just couldn't pull it up here. I watched the release video on 2X and I was scrubbing back and forth, kind of looking for it and I couldn't find it. So that to me is a really great idea is I set this thing up on my desktop where I have a full keyboard and I can say, hey, these are my preferences in order.

19:17I usually want an Uber Black. These are my 10 favorite restaurants. This is my two go-tos for pizza in order. These are my three Japanese in order. If you can start to do that, that's kind of cool. When you start thinking about it, right? Like if I order a hamburger, I want to go with five guys, then Shake Shack, then, you know. Oh, I found it. This is the screen. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. So you connect your Spotify, Apple Music, Uber, DoorDash, Eats, you know, all your services. A lot of founders are great at going from zero to one. This takes vision. It takes creativity. And most of all, it takes a bit of hustle.

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20:32Mev has been in business for 17 years, and they've helped the following companies build spectacular products, Cartier, Intuit, and the Ozempic maker, Novo Nordisk. Shout out to Ozempic. So let Mev help you increase product velocity and make product engineering more sustainable. Here's your call to action. Mev is going to give you$30 ,000 off your first three months. That's right get 10 000 off per month right now at mev.com slash twist that's mev.com slash twist for 30 000 off your first three months i want chat gpt4 to do this i want google to do this i mean i want my phone to do this like this kind of exists a little bit on your iphone when you pick your browser right you pick your default browser and i think you also pick your music player now oh i didn't see that yet but anyway that's what these things should do you should pick your music player you You should pick your ride sharing app.

21:23You should pick your food ordering app. You should kind of say, this is my number one food ordering app. This is my number two, right? Just so, you know, I shop from Amazon, I target Walmart. This is my go-to. All right, very cool. I give it, I'm going to give it a B plus. I'm going to give it a B plus. I thought it was very bold. I understand why people liked it. You know, the combination of price, it had wow factor. It looks stunning and it was 199 bucks. You know, if they ship three at$200, if they ship 6 million of those, 30 ,000 of them, they're going to lose money on that, I think. I don't think this, I mean, what is the build of materials on this?

21:54It's got to be$199 shipped. And then all the returns and stuff like that. This is very dangerous for startups. It's a smaller screen. They're not dealing with the, you know, you got to bring your own SIM. I don't know. It seems like, you know, it's probably. I don't know. Just one of the things I see with hardware products like this. Yeah. Is the founders underestimate the true cost, which includes returns and shipping and, you know, delays and other problems. and so with hardware it's so hard i think they put it at a price point that is they should have said it's going to be 199 but we're selling the first 10 000 as the signature 10 000 for 399 yeah so if you want one of the first 10 000 it's 399 and it comes with a number on the back of you have your thing this way at least have a little extra money to invest in the software right if they made four if it was actually it'd be better to sell 10 000 of them at 500 than to sell well Well, you know who nailed this?

22:48With Elon. 20 ,000. Of course. With the Teslas, right? Yes. With the Roadster, the Model S, the X, and then the 3 and the Y and what we get. And having the signature version. So it was 100 signature Roadsters and 1 ,000 signature Model S's. How much were those? Were they like 150? 150. They were probably$20 ,000 more,$30 ,000 more than when the actual products got off of the Signature Series. But I think the Signature Series historically are going to go for twice as much as the non-Signature. So if you own a Signature Series, I think it probably has a little extra oomph in it. It probably pays for itself.

23:24All right, let's keep moving here. You touched on something, and it was actually, it's quite important. Last week, there was a video released between Bill Gates and Sam. Oh, yes. And I want to just touch on that really quickly. I'm not going to play the video because it's a bit too long. But basically, he talks about what we're going to see for GPT-5. And in GPT-5, it touches on exactly what you said, which is video capabilities, which we know are coming like more multimodal generate videos, boosting reasoning and reliability. And then the last one is enabling user customization. So I do think for all the startups out there, including Rabbit, they are going to kind of build that same interface that we were just showing there.

24:06It's a 30-minute talk between them. It's launched on Bill Gates's pod. I suggest everyone listen to it. That's building stuff in and around AI. It was really good. The fact is he's super excited about GPT-5. Yes. And 4.5. And he also did a talk at Y Combinator, his alma mater, and where he worked. And he seemed to think like these new LLMs are going to be quite powerful. So there's a little bit of buzz that like they're going to drop some really... And he thinks AGI. I think there was another part of this where he sort of signals that he thinks AGI is coming sooner rather than later. Coming sooner than later.

24:39Yeah. He does touch on that in there. So we recommend everyone watch that one. I'm going to jump to another thing, Jake. I'll get back to Amazon in a second. You jump around. Yeah. Okay. I thought this was pretty exciting. This is a good application. It's basically like a sidekick for older folks. And so it's like a little device and it's kind of interesting. It has like a lamp and then as a, you know, like a little iPad. LCD display, a speaker. It looks like a charging station for your iPhone. but it's got like this little lamp yeah this is designed to be a companion this leq yeah it is yeah and it's designed to be a companion for for seniors and you know loneliness in seniors is a really big problem and um you know keeping active and if you look at what they did um you know it can basically and this is you know kind of powered by llms it can chat with you it can play games with you it can do all the you know um kind of interactive things that i find are you know really really interesting and i like kind of how they put that little light uh on on the side there to not make it like fully that you're staring at a screen so it's like a yes and but it also is not like fully like a robot so i thought this was one of the more interesting things out of ces this year as well so there was a movie about this robot and frank that came out in um really it's a comedy He came out in 2012.

26:03In the near future, an ex-jewel thief receives a gift from his son, a robot butler programmed to look after him. But soon, the two companions try their luck at a heist team. Now, I haven't seen this, but I got to see this because this is like, it's got my friend Peter Sarsgaard in it and Frank Langella. He's a great actor. And so, this looks like a pretty compelling movie that did this. And then, of course, there was the film that my daughter got obsessed with seeing. I didn't let her see it. but Megan, the robot horror story, remember the viral dance? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this idea that an AI companion would relieve loneliness or do a little bit of an AI, of course, there was the kid in AI, I think it was Haley Joel Osment, played the kid in AI, yeah, who becomes friends with the little boy, and then he has the teddy bear that is his friend, and just sort of multitudes of artificial intelligence, you know, helping people be less lonely.

26:56And so it's dystopian in some ways, but if well executed, I could see it relieving a bit of stress for people. And so, yeah, interesting. And so the one thing I want to talk about here is that like, what this does, and going back to, you know, because CES, we're going to stick with a little bit of the hardware theme on some of these. What this allows companies to do that know how to make great hardware, where, you know, this integration of hardware and amazingly difficult software became harder and you'd see stuff out of cds but only the big folks were winning the samsungs and the apples oh apple doesn't go to cs but like the bigger companies lgs and now what you're going to see is the ability for companies that have you know strong strength in standing up hardware but that can leverage large language models to create incredibly compelling experiences without having to have you know the depth of the team required to build like a entire operating system or something along those lines and this has some really cool goals in it like i'm looking at their um the copy on the website always important for founders to understand writing good copy and having a really good value proposition um that you communicate well on your website to you know incentivize people to have product market fit and to buy the product build healthier habits with goal setting and encouragement you know like taking your pills and exercising uh bullet point number two exercise with easy to follow video workout so i guess it will talk to you and say hey you know let's do put your hands above your head stretch whatever three challenge yourself and stay sharp with cognitive games right there were a whole bunch of cognitive games i forgot the name of it that got very popular there was one app that uh was it lumosity that was doing it was it was yep it was so lumosity was like hey there's this concept of you know exercising your brain essentially and i think wordle and crosswords people put in that sudoku there's like a bunch of things that people do and the new york times has gotten into this like you get people into a habit so So, you know, having Wordle or Word challenges or Jeopardy in this would be incredible.

28:50And number four, relax with various mindfulness and stress-reducing exercises. That's Calm.com, right? So, this has Lumosity in it and Wordle, essentially, like some cognitive games. And it's got an exercise app in it. It's a pretty good idea, I think. If you put all that in one and you make it a really great. And then some other things. Set reminders for errands, appointments, and medications. Okay, that's really good. Notify loved ones there is need for support. So that's that, um, I've fallen and I can't get up, you know, the alert me kind of stuff, search resources in your local area. There's your yellow pages and then stay current with news, weather, sports updates.

29:23Say that's your Yahoo or AOL or turning on CNN. So this actually, if, you know, if executed really well, could be amazing. Here's some more things you can do with it. Easy video calls from your friends and family. Okay. So that's your iPad kind of thing. Send and receive messages and photos of loved ones. Okay. That's like your smart frame. uh share your favorite memories and life lessons through digital memory okay that's your ancestry and send visual virtual greeting cards and special events and birthdays that's your blue mountain arts if you remember that if you're in there yeah so whoever made this i have to say to the team there i'm giving this an a yeah because i think this team and this is this week in startup so i always like to point out when somebody does some really good startup best practices i just are at 12, not three, 12 bullet point items, you know, in one package.

30:11If this thing actually is done well, there's like 12 items in here that are, you know, other businesses in and of themselves. So really well done to the LQ, L-E-Q, E-L-L-I-Q.com. What did you give it? For me, I'm in the same, I think it was an A. The design, the experiences, same thing, and I went through it all and just real proper integration of good hardware and the latest and LLMs and user experience and collapsing a few of those businesses into it. So I thought it was incredible as well. Now, I would like to see this in the form of a frameless TV, picture frame, smart picture frame. This could also work in that format.

30:49So I don't know if you know about this, like Samsung frameless, or they call it the frame. They basically, and I stayed at an Airbnb beta had one of these and i didn't realize it was a tv yeah because it has like a border on it and they put wood on it and it looks like it's a piece of art and i guess you can buy art uh but it can also work as a tv so i just aesthetically love this concept and i just think a smart tv that had a great interface this is why apple should have launched a tv um and there was a rumor for a long time and i had heard it from people who were in and around apple back in the gadget days that they were working on a television.

31:30Instead, they came out with Apple TV to slap on the back of TVs. And I guess you can get Apple TVs built into some TVs or a light version of it is. This would really have been amazing. If you buy any smart TV now, it has like an Apple TV in it. It's like they've done that. But these guys have really nailed and I just have it up here, but these guys really nailed. I've seen a couple of these as well and they're really well done. And they kind of make them like a matte screen. So when they're not in like TV mode, they really do look like a piece of art. And it looks like you can get like, enjoy 100 pieces of art from some of Disney's greatest stories on the frame.

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32:56So Twist listeners can get 20 % off at imagineai.live slash twist. That's 20 % off your tickets at imagineai.live slash TWIST. So again, back to product market fit, you know, if you can show apps, if you can show use cases, and people go, I want that use case, when they get to two or three of the use cases, you know, people start hovering over that buy button. I know I've been hovering over the buy button on one of these, I'm just figuring out like what TV am I going to throw away to put something gorgeous like this in. And I was thinking of my new set, I'm building a new office here at the house.

33:29Oh yeah. It should be there. Yeah. And I was thinking about having one of these and maybe just having kids photos, skiing, whatever, different pieces of art, but have it rotate, you know, be kind of cool. Awesome. Let's keep rolling. We've got a couple more of these to go. Okay. So the next one, which I thought was really interesting as well, and this is like a touchy subject for parents with kids at certain ages, which is smartphones for kids. And the smartphone controls are just really lacking today because one, Apple's UI doesn't really allow you to do it in any kind of significant way that's usable.