ChatGPT vs Hollywood writers and the WGA strike with Lon Harris | E1750

0:00This is what Netflix should do is they should just go and say you know what these are the top 20 most consistent people we're going to pay them 75 grand a year plus this bonus program plus these raises plus these benefits. And if you are the writer and you want to get paid more, but work more like a gig worker, two months on, three months off, fight for your next gig, get it, don't get it, whatever. And, you know, be a freelancer, fine. But, man, I would just come in and I'd buy the top 50 writers and I'd have them come to an office every day. I would give them lunch. I'd treat them great and make a campus where they felt like, man, I come here and I'm just creatively fulfilled and I feel safe.

0:37Like, I get rent every month taken care of. I've got my, you know, my mortgage is like, you know, I have some amount of security. We have practical evidence that this is the right approach. This Week in Startups is brought to you by Embroker's Startup Insurance Program helps startups secure the most important types of insurance at a lower cost and with less hassle. Save up to 20 % off of traditional insurance today at Embroker.com slash twist. And while you're there, get an extra 10 % off using offer code twist. Hyperice. Warm up and recover faster with the Hypervolt 2 massage gun and Normatec compression therapy boots.

1:17Save$50 off your order of$150 or more with code TWIST50 at checkout at hyperice.com. And release. Large enterprises pose unique challenges for SaaS startups. Unlock customers with unique needs for private and single-tenant hosting without the toil of DIY with release delivery. Get your first month free at release.com slash twist. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. It's been a while, but we have to touch on all the stuff happening in the entertainment and technology and streaming space. So with me again, back on the program, Lon Harris. How are you doing, brother? Been a minute. Pretty good.

1:59How about you? Yeah, it's been a little while. Well, it's a little crazy right now in my world. You know, both podcasts doing really well. uh all in has become a bit of a phenomenon you know like uh this podcast is you know self-contained it's about startups you know only technology which is a you know very narrow niche thing i've never had a podcast that was about essentially everything you know it's right it's a little more wider and it's uh strange it's gotten so popular that it's crossed over into pop culture a bit you know so um yeah i mean certainly you know i think the as as the all-in podcast is becoming more popular and you know the the you guys on it are touching into so many different areas and fields making making news besides just doing the podcast that i think one drives the other it's now becoming a little bit like that so yes like sax is going to be uh and elon or having ron desantis on twitter spaces exactly i mean that was the exact example i was thinking of is like you know guys with the all-in podcast are making real news headlines you know yeah beyond well the beyond tech yeah yeah and you know i'm i'm doing a reality show so i was meeting with one of the major streamers and one of the networks in the past week so i'm gonna take a shot at doing a reality show again around my you know early stage investing i had done a show with nbc that never got on air um as the person who i was in partnership with turned out to be a monster um i'll leave it at that you've got a weird industry over there well it's very strange because in hollywood like literally year one of going out and meeting everybody this person was a god and the next year this person was a pariah uh and rightfully so so you know like um but i was like wait a second when did that happen you guys were just literally you know uh you go to these this is back in the in-person meeting days for reality shows you know we go into a major network we go into a major studio you know back then i guess there were like television production companies that you know would you know somehow be involved i mean that is still yeah yeah you go in and they would line up 15 people for this person to come out and be greeted and it wasn't just yeah the people in the studio it would be the presidents of the wider larger conglomerate you know the atn or whatever of the world there is a waystar there's a star ceo would come out logan roy would be there there's a notable cult documentary about this person before before the scandals and uh one one person asked another they're talking about him and they said how how much power does this person have in hollywood and the other person answers all of it wow they're the most they're the they were the the most powerful person in hollywood at one point for a minute yeah for like a 10 year period they had their hands in artistic films and the top reality tv shows and and and and and so very interesting um but then of course you know the pilot comes out great i'm like okay i'm learning about this stuff and then it was like anything this person has ever touched is now so toxic burn it to the ground can never reference it again his name shall not be spoken uh and so but anyway i'm back on the horse i got a great partner uh and we'll talk about that but uh you know one of the legendary good idea like yeah the i to me the concept was always like what what gordon ramsay kind of does yes the kitchen nightmare style of bringing the personality and the expertise and the experience and then you know helping other people who are maybe coming in you know more aspiring you know coming in from the other side that is the uh that is the analogy that comes up uh pretty frequently and then the show will have a little bit of a uh yeah uh how do i say it well anyway i don't want to tip my cards too much but yes it's basically around me angel investing in companies me you know uh investing so i'm getting my own uh but everything it was interesting was when we had the call yesterday i was like doing the debrief and i was like well how does the rider strike impact all of this and it was like well that actually is in our favor in some ways because if this is extended reality tv got its big boost the last time there was a writer's strike um but now i understand a little bit it's a little bit like i think that the trope that is wrong people tend to be like the explosion of reality tv was the last writer's strike that's not really true reality tv already was going strong this kind of expanded.

6:53Reality TV got a boost out of it. But American Idol was already popular. People already liked reality shows. You got a real flood of them in 07, 08 because production took a pause for six months or whatever. Let's educate the audience on what's happening with this writer's strike because it seemed like this was something that was coming. There's a deal that they had And I don't know if it was a 10-year deal or whatever it was, but it was a long deal. It's been a while since there's been a strike. Essentially, right. The 2007-2008 strike kind of codified a lot of the rules that have been in place ever since.

7:33And I mean, if you think about how much has changed since then, in 2007-2008, you know, Netflix had just introduced, you know, watch now. Like that was a brand new service. YouTube was this very new Wild West frontier. You know, Hulu, I think, was 2008. So we're talking about a very, very different landscape. And we haven't figured out things like residuals and credits and all these little rules that really allow writers to make writing into a career. And I think that's what I think the most simplistic version is writers need to make more, which is true. but yes the the real what does a writer get compensated i'm just curious like somebody who writes on a show what do they make they make a thousand dollars a day they make 25 000 dollars an episode a project how does it work it used to be if you think about like the old the old days shows ran longer and if you got a regular writing gig on a tv show yep that was functionally your job david simon talks about this there's a great video the wire creator david simon where he'd be You get your show, you work on your show for 30 weeks out of the year, and then you're off for 20 weeks, but you made enough on that 30 weeks a year to live for the whole year.

8:53And that's how you have a full-time job as a writer. And you're a writer on that whole process. You're writing the show, and then you're following the show through the production process. You're around, you're consulting, you follow the post-production process, you learn how shows are made. And that's how you become a David Simon, where you can be a showrunner. you can take the next show and shepherd it through the whole process what the streamers came along and did netflix hulu peacock all these others they they've they've innovated in a way they figured out we don't need 30 weeks of a writer's time a full 20 plus episode season we they're not all making law and order sometimes they're making six episode shows eight episode shows shorter they don't need writers for as much time so what these would be in some cases like the prestige shows the white lotus or whatever exactly a six episode a severance a succession you know those seasons are much shorter it it doesn't take a writer a whole year if they're working on succession the writer's room for succession might be two months and then they banged out the 10 episode season and you're presumably on to the next gig but it's much much harder if not impossible to build a full-time writing career out of the you're now a freelancer you're just the next gig the next gig the next gig you constantly have to find the next gig and what we're also finding is that we're not training the next generation of showrunners and head writers and producers we're not we're not creating it's not a landscape that's conducive to the next ryan murphy the next shonda rhymes we're we're finding gig workers who then come in do a show or two and then have to go back so this is essentially capitalism at work the streamers are more like startups they move faster they're nimbler they found a new format that works better which is prestige tv shorter higher quality whatever six episode 10 episode queen's gambit they only need people for two months so they're like well we're we're capitalists we're only going to hire people for two months they didn't raise their salaries for those two months i assume they wanted to capture, I guess, those profits.

11:00In some cases, people are making a little bit more relative to the amount of time they're putting in. But overall, when you consider how much writers are making in the aggregate, even though the writing rates haven't gone down, writers are working for a lot less time. It's a lot fewer jobs to put together. So it's becoming harder to build a career, even though the rates themselves have not dipped dramatically. that's what can be deceiving when you see how much writers are getting paid it doesn't drop off a cliff it just stays sort of flat but there's more people coming to hollywood and writing all the time so that's being spread out over a lot more people so there's competition there's more competition for fewer jobs the jobs are shorter time so a lot of people just can't put together a full career as a writer even if you could find a gig here a gig there there's a lot more people in that space where it's like i wrote for this show last year and i wrote for this show in january but now i don't have a job and this is i think kind of one of the misconceptions about hollywood you think everybody's out there like living in a 10 million dollar house the truth is yeah that era when people were getting rich was based upon the uh profit sharing that residuals gave people and people would get this nice 10k check or 20k check if their show got you know into reruns or something and you build up two or three shows in a lifetime and now you're making a hundred thousand a year fifty thousand a year on residuals and you're making sixty seventy thousand dollars a year on new work you know you got a six there were a lot of writers in hollywood that could hit six figures a year correct yes and and residue exactly what you said the idea was it once you got that gig once you got that plum gig that network tv right like if i finally get on after years of toiling away i land a job at avid elementary i'm in the avid elementary writer's room that's it i've made it that show's going to go to syndication once the show goes to syndication i'm getting passive income every year from residuals and what's happening now with the streamers is there's fewer of those jobs and even if you get to 50 netflix episodes 80 netflix episodes well like what does that mean the syndication rules don't apply they're not transparent about how many people are watching every show.

13:21And so it's a lot harder for people to chase down compensation, even when a show they worked on was considered a hit. Listen, I work with super early stage companies at launch, like literally year zero, they haven't even incorporated yet. And then we hit the series A, people have 1000s of dollars in MRR, and they maybe they've only raised a couple 100 ,000 before that series A, and they don't have their insurance set up. And in fact, we recently had a great startup that didn't have D &O and we had to really stop everything because they were having board meetings, they were making massive decisions, there were legal issues, and they didn't have the basic D &O insurance that protects directors and officers.

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14:35That's E-M-B-R-O-K-E-R.com twist and use the code twist for 10 off okay let's get back to this amazing episode yeah so i it's very interesting because it does not seem like this is the lion's share of the cost of making a show yeah this seems like it's a small percentage now i don't know what percentage the writers are of the overall production of a show but i do know how much shows cost to produce it they cost 500 an episode to three million dollars an episode we've talked about this forever on the show and then some of the prestige ones can even be you know five or ten million an episode we've seen like the game of thrones wheel of time or game of three right i've got to build sets in northern ireland or whatever it could be 10 i mean i think we've even heard like lord of the rings was you know 30 million an episode or whatever so you know it starts to get into some of those fantasy shows it starts to get into like 100 million for a 10 episode season and stuff like that which is those are but if we just go to a million if you just go to a million an episode you know you blend it all out and it's a 10 episode there's 10 million dollars what could the writers cost a million dollars of that 500 000 of it i don't think they get some not even a million i probably have five or ten percent yeah i think we're talking about precedent it's in addition to the money itself i think the concern is they don't want to give in too much because well then sag comes with their handout that you know like you you set one precedent and then the rest of the streaming era is just people asking for more and they have to make these read figure these deals i think there's kind of a don't you know like don't give too much up front so that we don't set those kinds of expectations see i think this is you know coming to it netflix the understanding in the industry that i've heard i don't i there's not this is mostly rumor but what people are saying is that it's really netflix that's the holdout because they have the most to lose all of their shows are streaming they're really the most committed to this mini room churn things out quickly make six episodes as a test they don't want to have to commit to hiring every hollywood writer like on a full-time basis and paying them all benefits like that they're thinking long term like 20 years from now we're going to really resent being in that position well this is part of the problem with um the dynamic of a union uh notice i'm not making a judgment on pro union or not union but there are dynamics to each of these things and it's not a free market right now so you don't have you know say disney or fox or nbc or somebody taking a different position than netflix because there's collective bargaining going on here um right you're you're you're not having the free market um dynamics and if you look at the free market dynamics that happened between uber doordash lyft amazon and then you know people who needed workers like starbucks uh or the apple store what we saw over time was um you know uber wanted those drivers so much and doordash wanted those drivers so much that they put pressure on apple starbucks target and walmart to raise their offering and then the flexibility that they offered then put starbucks in a tough position because starbucks was like we need you to work like this like onerous 6 a.m to 11 a.m then we don't want you for four hours then we do want you to work the rush at night whatever it was and the market you know basically now if you look at service jobs we have had a massive escalation in this country of how much service workers get paid it's up in the 30s now in major cities and the minimum wage went to 15 in major cities now we could debate if that's a livable lifestyle whatever but yeah obviously i mean that it's it's very hard because of the the lack of transparency here i think is a huge issue especially when you're talking about individuals being able to act on their own leverage we even saw seth rogan a few weeks ago had the he was at the red carpet for platonic his new apple tv plus show he said even he super producer movie star seth rogan he has no idea how his stuff is doing on streaming platforms It comes out, they tell him, hey, Seth Rogen, we like this show.

18:48It did great. And he's like, okay. But they don't, he doesn't get numbers. He, this is a guy who used to get, you know, he's a producer. He would get data. Here's exactly, here's the theaters where Sausage Party did best. Here's the exact age demo and breakdown. And here's who went to see it Friday night versus Saturday morning. This is a strategy too, by the way, just so you know, like being a corporate free market monster myself i can tell you the strategy from the inside which is if you obscurify the data and then you can you know not give people uh you have a leg up in the negotiation whereas with uber drivers or doordash drivers that show did okay right apple and doordash drivers they know exactly how much the ride was you know and there's transparency oh you know you know uh this doordash was 30 bucks they can see the receipt you know and and they're looking at all of those things versus each other there are apps that tell them hey take this ride do this doordash do postmates do uber eats do whatever grubhub there are apps that are telling them which rides are the most profitable right so that transparency makes for a more efficient market i think what netflix and these folks should do everybody who's involved in this is if it was a truly free market and being the free market monster i am and capitalist i would look at this and i'd say you know what the power move here is i think the studio should break ranks i think they should break ranks and what i would do is i'd say you know what we have two ways for you to work here's the gig offer and here's the full-time offer and i would take a toho studios approach to this i don't know if this is legal right now but toho studios as you and i know having both read akira kurosawa's uh biography something uh like an autobiography i think you read that yeah something like an autobiography i haven't i have not oh well there's a tip we gotta read something like an autobiography it talks about how toho studios you know everybody worked full-time and then they would go to a mountain retreat an onsen in japan um and like a spa kind of place and they would write yeah they'd have the actors in the room they'd have the directors cinematographers come in they would you know workshop stuff they would start building scenes but they were all full-time and they would do this three times a year they would write two or three screenplays and then they would pick the best ones and so to shirama fune akira korsawa the the lighting person the sound person they all got into a rhythm together right this is what netflix should do is they should just go and say you know what these are the top 20 most consistent people we're going to pay them 75 grand a year plus this bonus program plus these raises plus these benefits and if you are the writer and you want to get paid more but work more like a gig worker two months on three months off fight for your next gig get it don't get it whatever and you know be a freelancer fine but man i would just come in and buy the top 50 riders and i'd have them come to an office every day i would give them lunch i treat them great and make a campus where they felt like man i come here and i'm just creatively fulfilled and i feel safe like i get rent every month taking care i've got my you know my mortgage is like you know i have some amount of security yeah we have practical evidence that this is the right approach there's there's a show on netflix right now called the night agent i don't know if you've seen it i've heard of it yeah it's about an fbi agent he works overnight in the white house answering this like emergency phone and then he gets tipped off to a mole there's a mole in the white house and he's the only so anyway it was created by this guy sean ryan who did the uh shield the shield right uh at burn notice i think he worked on a he's worked on a few big popular franchise shows.

22:22So this guy created this one and he came in and he said, I don't want to do the usual Netflix mini room thing. I'm sick of it. I want an old school writer's room. So he brought in a bunch of young writers. They followed it. They stayed with him the whole time. They wrote the show together. They came to the set. He showed them how to be a show runner. He brought them into the editing room. That show is now it's like the number six most popular netflix show of all time like it's a huge juggernaut they're bringing it back for multiple seasons it's that's how to do it we know how to make a tv show that people like that's compelling and and we know how to get writers to build these careers we sort of stop because there's a more cost-effective way why doesn't tron ryan or one of these major producers who makes all this money right because they're the ones who really get the bag why don't they just take their top five or ten people and say listen you're going to work here full-time for me you're gonna write spec scripts we're gonna work on stuff we're gonna punch something i mean and they become like a law firm or something yeah that's shondaland shonda rimes company that's ryan ryan murphy's got his two or three people that created you know damer with him and glee with him and american crime story and so that is there is and i mean tyler perry would obviously be like the biggest example if he's got his own studio in atlanta with his own teams of people making shows so that that That is a model that I think is viable.

23:39You have to get to a scale. Bridgerton, Grey's Anatomy level of success. Dick Wolf would be another example of a guy who's got, you know, the law and order one Chicago guy, you know, David E. Kelly would have a team. I guess if they do that, then they would be breaking all the WGA rules. And so they would get the, I mean, right now you have to get people to break their union rules to go work full time. So I think just giving more options to people, is how business is headed. There are people who want to come to an office. There's people who want stability. There's people who want to be freelancers, people who want to set their own schedules.

24:15I think in this modern era, you got to give people an option of how they want to work. Listen, are you sore and tired all day? You know, you're working really hard. You're probably working out. You're walking around. You're doing runs. Well, I have been using the Hypervolt 2 massage gun for weeks. It is amazing. And, you know, I started running again. I was reading this Peter Attila book about my health span. I was like, you know what? I got to get into this zone two, zone three. But man, my muscles are sore. Getting back into it when you're 50, ugh. And it helps get all those knots out. It loosens my muscles.

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25:30I think you have to have a more sustainable road to a professional TV and film writing career because that's a high skill job. Despite the idea of maybe we can have, you know, chat GPT do it, or we can just pull young people right out of film school Writers are using chat GPT, right? I mean, of course, writers are using it to brainstorm, right? Just like they read old scripts. Of course. Are people using it to knock around ideas, to outline things? I'm sure they are. I'm sure many, many people are. I'm sure it's already in use out there. Naturally, obviously, of course. I don't know how I've tried to use it.

26:07If you, I don't know how useful it is at least yet. Maybe one day, you know, new, new innovations are coming every day, but, uh, for right now, I think it's. Whose, whose dialogue do you, whose dialogue do you think is fantastic in a, in a, in a movie? I mean, we were talking about David Simon. I think it's hard to top the wire. I think David Chase, the guy who wrote Sopranos, Matt Weiner, who wrote Mad Men, Vince Gilligan and his crew did Breaking Bad. better call saul um so if you were asking like give me some dialogue from the sopranos um but i mean try it around um it's still at the level of like a very precocious child yeah like if you asked a very precocious child write me a tv scene you wouldn't expect them to write you a scene that would actually be on television if they could write you anything that was in screenplay format you'd be like oh my god you're only seven years old that's very impressive i think that's where chat gpt like we're amazed that it can do it because it's software yeah but it's not yet at the point where i would be like this is a great scene put this on television like it's not creative it's not funny it's just amazing that a robot can do that at all i think is where we're yeah i mean i think that's where like when you have ideas um you know you could very quickly ask it hey make me a scene a hypothetical dialogue around tony soprano poly walnuts you know uh stealing bitcoin i think we wish i think i think there's a wish that it would work that way like you could break writing down into a factory assembly line and like i'm over here putting the final thing together but you've got a robot over there banging out widgets but that's not it's it yeah but i do think it's gonna be yeah i don't think it's how people creatively work but i do think it's how people brainstorm and so i think if you think about brainstorming if you were going to brainstorm you would watch old sopranos epos showed you'd pull you know you might pull some scripts and i mean everybody yeah you make super brainstorming processes their own so i'm sure it's it's helpful in that level for a lot of people to just what are the 20 places a scene like this could happen or what are that's what i think the magic is who could pop up in here sure i'm not and if you so So if you believe that, then the next thing is, do you believe, um, if you believe that, then the question becomes, do you believe a writer could be faster?

28:34And obviously writers are faster because of things like word processors or final draft, I guess, as a standard. So how much faster could they be? I think there'll be 30 % faster. Now, do you want to have the same cost structure? Do you want to save money? Do you want to have seven writers instead of 10? Or do you want to still have the 10 writers and just make better content? and since this is such a I think we're I think we're in very theoretical territory when we start saying chat gpt is going to make people significantly faster writing because I don't think yeah the things that would make you faster at writing are not the things that chat gpt is good example like a lot more brainstorming you're just like we said it's useful for brainstorming but that brainstorming is not the time-consuming part of writing the time-consuming part of writing is when you have your outline done and then you're sitting in front of a blank page and I have to create this world from scratch.

29:25I have to think about Tony Soprano as a person and figure out how he would express himself and move through the world. For right now, and I'm not a futurist. I can't see 30 years from now. Maybe computers will get very good at this. For right now, computers aren't very good at that. For right now, computers are very good at what are 30 possible locations a Soprano scene could take place in. And it could go, oh, the boardwalk in New Jersey. or a so what it's going to be really good at is i think this is the thing they're trying to stop this is where i think the wga strike is so fascinating to me is that they're striking at the exact time that this stuff is getting 10 better a week which means every two months it's basically twice as good and i think that's where oh yeah it is yeah i'm not absolutely like Is it getting 10 % better in the aggregate at everything it does a week?

30:20Sure. Is it getting 10 % more funny and creative every week? I haven't seen any change in that at all yet. Not one. Since it debuted to today, it's not any funnier. Yeah. So, you know, let me just share something with you here. Hold on. While we were talking. I mean, is it getting better at taking the LSAT? absolutely no argument it's getting a lot better at stuff like that i've seen it with my own two eyeballs yeah and i think it's getting better at conversation like when it first debuted versus today it feels more organically like a real natural conversational voice that you're talking to yeah i agree with that but i don't think it's getting it's not trying to share i just made i just made a thing here i'll just read it to you um so i asked it to do a bitcoin like uh sopranos episode and uh interior bada bing tony paul and sylvia like okay yeah that's a good place to do it okay that's tony what's this i'm hearing about paulie some kind of magic internet money paulie it's called bitcoin t it's not exactly magic more like mathematical sylvia mathematical what are we back at school now paulie nah still it's like digital cash it's like anonymous untraceable like cash money online but tony sounds like a scam to me paulie some people say that but Look, it's been around more than 10 years now.

31:43They say it's worth a fortune. Sylvia, who's they? Paulie, the internet's still. So you're saying you can steal this, Bitcoin, and no one will know? Paulie, well, in theory, yes, but it's not like robbing a bank to you. It's all code, computers, hacks. You get the idea. I get the idea. And again, it's impressive that it knows the bada bing. It knows these characters. It can do that Jersey Italian guy voice. It knows to call him T. it knows he calls him tea yeah yeah that's that's wild like it's a very impressive technological feat no argument but i that's not a good sopranos episode if you film that with those actors you'd be like what the hell is this but what you know when i look at it what i see is like the ideas like oh magical internet money like that's a funny place to kind of like fork and be like matt yeah we could workshop that right yeah i mean i guess but like i i don't know it doesn't it doesn't have a it doesn't have a experience in the world it doesn't have a soul it doesn't have feelings it like those are the things you tap into when you're writing creatively not not all kinds of writing when you're writing ad copy maybe it's going to be great at that you know like all different kinds of writing are different so i'm not saying the writers are are demanding the writers are asking that no training data will be put into ai and that right will be bad for the writer's room i think for hollywood writers there's there's two key things one is we don't have to collaborate with ai like we're not going to be asked to like here's a script that ai turned out you fix it and then i think the other thing which is even a bigger one is ai can't be the originator of copywritten material, which is like, we couldn't ask an AI, give me 50 pitches for a new Adam Sandler movie, take the one we like, and then just hire a writer to write that.

33:37I think everybody recognizes the danger there, which is that creative people would cease to own any of the ideas. Hollywood would, studios would own every idea because they would churn them out with computers and then they would just hire writers as gig workers to come and fix their computer pitches don't they do this a bit now when they say we want a show that is x and they kind of do an rfp for a request for proposal don't the studios say hey we're looking for x y and z oh sure sometimes they definitely put out like they let people's managers know like we want action comedy we'd like it to you know be this you know give me a give me a jason momoa type character give me a this type you know yeah of course of course but they don't try to overreach and say hey we've got a new character his name is bames john and he's like it's not a long line because then it's the it's who owns it you know like that and that's for money as far as money and deals go who owns the idea is such a huge like that's what made shonda rhimes shonda rhimes is that a lot of people worked on graze anatomy but she came up with graze anatomy that's the thing and if a computer came up with graze anatomy then nobody makes that shonda rhimes money how does this end what do you think the studio keeps it what do you think is going to happen here because this seems to me to be the worst possible time it's bad to be negotiating with the studios because the studios have overspent and they're trying to make less content right they the streaming services are losing money we're going into a recession or we've had this like 18 month period where their stocks have been crushed disney's cutting costs so this is the absolute worst time to negotiate well yes and no i mean for everything you're saying is true uh the the bottom has fallen out from the streaming marketplace digital ad market is crashing terribly these companies are losing money going out of business amc's in desperate straits got it so yeah it's the timing's not great but on the other hand they do have a lot of leverage right now all of these studios recently came out with these huge uh new platforms that they've marketed for years and they've made a lot of promises to their audience i mean the new hbo max max is literally came out yesterday so it is a very visible time to be like oh yeah well if you want content for all your shiny new platforms you need to come make better deals with us so i mean there's never a great do the writers want full-time work or do the writers want like um you know do the writers want security or do they want flexibility if you have to pick one i think it's more about security i think it's more about a lot of people are looking that there are fewer and fewer reliable full-time jobs that you can build a life off of that you can build a career off of if you're 22 you can come in and work a bunch of mini rooms and make a bunch of money and be fine but people who want to have a house and a family based on being a tv writer got it it's becoming almost impossible to do that and i think three or four years ago was the boom time three or four years ago was the boom time people were just sweeping the money i heard they couldn't get writers they were adding writers like crazy so it's a boom bus cycle there was a yes we had a ridiculous explosion in interest in these streaming platforms that really came to a head like in the immediate sort of pre-pandemic era 2018, 2019.

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38:22You can turn your ideas into apps and deploy those apps quickly and flexibly. Let release show you the power of release delivery and get your first month free at release.com slash twist. That's right. They got that domain name release.com. What a great domain name. That's up to$10 ,000 in value at release.com slash twist. Here's a Alright, well, let me just see you said pitches weren't going to work. So here we go. We'll pull this up on the screen. They weren't gonna work. I said, let's see let's see what happens here we'll pull it up on the screen here make it two times bigger oh here we go we did adam sandler movie pitch here's what chat gpt thinks adam sandler movies hollywood handyman this is one of the three picture deals we're doing with adam sandler sandra plays a bumbling handyman to the stars in hollywood accidentally messing up their homes but always solving the problem in an uninspected and hilarious way has to navigate the delicate egos of a list uh clientele hmm unorthodox methods there's something there i like hollywood handyman surfs down sam could a could a clever writer turn that into a movie sure i mean i think that's why we're having this that's why this is such an important debate because in terms of a log line yeah chat gpt can come up with a log line what's a log the hard part is execute basically a log line is a one sentence description of your your project so like adam sandler plays a bumbling handyman to the stars in hollywood that would be the log line for that here we go second one that's the sort of thing that ideas like that are relatively cheap it's the execution that's surfs down surfs down sandler is a retired professional surfer who must come back for one more competition to save his old beach hangout from being bought by a ruthless corporation this is great i will say i will say a fun thing you could do there was you you'd obviously cast like a very good looking hunky guy to be like young sandler like make that joke that you get like this this jacob and lordy 23 year old like huge muscular guy 90s guy just killing it and now sandler is sandler and now he's this schlub who's adam sandler and he's got to get back to you right And you get this like chubby guy on a board doing sick moves and beating all the part.

40:44Yeah, she didn't come up with that part. I thought of that. Yes. Along the way, he must face his fear of big waves resulting from a past traumatic event. Wow. So, yes, the thing that took him out of competition was a big wave. He got dragged under. He almost drowned. He got saved by a dolphin. And now he's got to do a huge one. The help is all crew and a newcomer. The dolphin is the funny part. And you just added that. That's true. That's right. I'm punching it up. me and chat you're punching it up they rekindled the spirit of surfing the community and take the corporate on the corporate this is kind of like the corporate giants in uh you know local hero one of my favorite films the mark nofler soundtrack you know that's the other it's a more we're talking about this very practically but on a conceptual level it's the same thing like writers are saying this is not original like the the robot didn't think of that story it's just cribbing from millions of other stories written by years and years of other writers it's and that's just taking tropes from old yeah but that's what happens in i when people come in and say hey this is blade runner meets the goonies and you're like okay you know but they took that they fused those ideas together themselves creatively into something new museum misadventures here we go this one is interesting this one's completely stolen museum misadventure sandler plays a Disgruntled Night security guard.

42:03Wait a second. This is Night at the Museum. That's a Ben Stiller movie. Wait a second. Chad GBT is going to get super plagiarism. We figured it out. Lot and I figured it out. Listen. Yeah. This is my message to the streamers. General Zaslav, Bob Ige, all of my people there. The writers are crushing it right now. They're crushing it. Man. that show secession i was like okay four seasons whatever and you know and then obviously if you listen if you haven't watched it you know just fast forward 10 minutes here we'll just keep it under 10 the apps we're gonna go for 100 minutes like we do in tar um listen no but i mean they kill logan roy in the third episode and you're like well there's the show and i'm like wait a second but the show is called secession so maybe we'll find out who actually you know uh you know it's in the name we're gonna find out who gets to run this company down to it now we're gonna get one episode left and literally every week we're sitting here going oh my god that was the best episode ever that was the best episode ever no that was the best episode ever that was the best performance ever that was the best line ever this thing is going to go down as a top 10 show in hbo's history yeah oh yeah oh yeah they're they're they're absolutely killing it this last season the performances are just you know like because the the roy kids brian cox obviously they're getting a ton of praise deservedly so kieran colkin's been amazing this year sarah snook's been so good but the one who really stood out to me alexander scars car as lucas matson is amazing and like there's so many levels to it of like he's always playing games with people but there is this kind of weird sincerity this the kind of creepy oddball eccentric little asperger's quirky he's he's doing so much yeah yeah and you can see like it's a very original like he's his own guy it doesn't feel like he's doing an impersonation but it does it feels like he's touching on so many it's a little peter teal in there there's a little daniel actually spotify they kind of exactly the spotify you know because it's from a nordic country they kind of took that and then they kind of took like a little bit of a burning man and wacky culture and he's a little bit yeah he's got a little jack dorsey it's a little jack it's a lot of different different beats and it doesn't feel like he's playing one person but it feels like this is a guy that i could see fitting into the tech business in 2023 like i understand who lucas mattson is yes really good he's really good and they nailed rupert murdoch or sumner redstone but really rupert you know with logan roy yeah and then with the kids especially yeah yeah and with the kids you don't you know you don't know james murdoch i do i've met him a bunch of times like um i don't know i don't think that the the kids are total screw-ups um they're very smart but they also just happen to have this iconic dad who has done things that are cutthroat and i mean that uh i don't know who his bro who plays his brother on the show james cromwell whoa james cromwell comes in and just you know like dunks it on the entire cast and then karen cocken comes in and gives the heartfelt of the you know like is my dad in there can we get him out you're like yeah that's what happens when your dad dies you get crushed right it's the you can't believe that that's you know that's everybody's dad dying and then you have uh uh lunatic method actor uh yeah jeremy strong jeremy strong comes in and he's like you know what great job uh now i'm gonna come in and i am gonna say my god i hope i have that monster inside of me because capitalism and getting things done and the strong man in the world is an important role in the world he does this whole ann rand thing and i'm like oh my lord what have we just witnessed like they just summed up in those three eulogies they summed up and i don't mean to leave shiv out of it but she was just heartbroken and crestfallen and you know just still hasn't reconciled what it means to be a woman in this world with her dad right and just that was pretty great too but it was fit a whole woman in his head which is incredible well i mean and so now in four eulogies what have we seen that entire range of humanity in the 21st century so hard to do too because we the whole show we've known this is coming and it's been building up to It still like sort of surprises in that way.

46:38And it tied in so beautifully with the election night episode. You know, they've all spent this whole show dreaming of becoming their dad, trying to become their dad, wanting to replace their dad. And then here's this moment of, you know, truth where it's like, well, here's what your dad would have done. Here's the kind of person he really was. And they're facing that moment. And, you know, do they have the guts to really go through that? Only Roman was really ready to go through that door. The others were like, oh, I don't know. He's kind of a bad guy. and he's kind of white supremacist e and roman was like doesn't matter who cares this is what's good for us this is the play you know and it plays it's going to be ratings and we got him in our pocket he's willing to play ball the other guy doesn't play ball exactly what he said like what would dad have done that's what that's what dad yeah yeah i mean so what a show so anyway my message to the writers the one other one i wanted to mention uh because it's relatively new still are you watching silo on apple tv plus you know it literally just came up because one of the ways i recommend silo well one of the ways i determine what is a good show to watch is i go rotten tomatoes um a metacritic and then i look at what trends on uh like the dark web like on uh bit net and not bit net um that's the precursor of the internet uh bit tour bit tour and you know if you look at the bit tour at 100 which is i literally used because i pay for everything i don't need to steal anything but i get the bit tour at 100 just to see what people are watching globally downloading and silo was like three or four of the top 10 and i'm like well this must be good so i'm gonna but it's a sci-fi so i have to wait for my wife that's my deal with my wife sci-fi they all live in this this very elaborate underground bunker right and they don't know you know something happened the environment's toxic can't leave the bunker but then it becomes like investigating the nature who built the bunker and what really happened outside and why can't we go let's go love it yeah great great got a little bit of lost in there a little bit of lost like we're going to reveal what happened kind of situation a little bit of loss a little bit of severance where it's got it's a sci-fi mystery you know and it just keeps getting weirder and yeah like rebecca ferguson tim robbins it's really good i think be generous to the writers and lock them down this is my free market monster advice uh i think the unions are blowing it here the unions should go for full-time employment that's what they should be leveraging here is they should have two paths here's the freelance path here's the full-time writer path and try to you know create options for people this is what i built this is what i've learned in business you know running inside.com running the investment firm investing in 300 companies you know i used to think like okay it can only be one way you know and because it had only been one way and then what you realize is after the pandemic well it can be a couple different ways and if you make it so people get to choose then they have agency and when people have agency then they take more responsibility and they stop acting like worker bees and they start acting a little bit more like owners and the agency here right would be i could be a full-time writer i can sign a two-year deal and maybe they're two-year deals i'm gonna go full-time for netflix for two years at this rate and my pay is going to be spread out here and i have and i and i have to work on whatever they tell me to work on for 40 hours a week or i'm over 75k and it's a staff position and i you know i'm expected to put in 50 60 hours a week whatever it is functionally is this is what the writers are sort of asking for is is not not necessarily they think you know a a pathway to making this a reasonable job that you could really work.

50:17I think the exact deal you're talking about, if you went to a lot of these striking writers and said, here's what we're offering, I think they would take it. I think that the thing that people are upset with right now is that it's not this writing career in Hollywood is not very sustainable until you get to that very, very top tier where you're Vince Gilligan. Whoever cracks, this is what I, this is my advice to the other side. Zaslav, eiger reed hastings one of you jump the fence one of you break ranks and you say here's our proposal we don't need to negotiate as a group we're offering the full-time employment option and then whatever you guys work out you can work out in your own time whatever the freelance thing is have at it you know we'll agree with whatever you all come to terms with but we're going to hire a hundred full-time writers and we want to have these folks and we're giving them disney netflix stock we're going to give you stock options and if your show is great we're going to give you bigger bonuses so if you come up with silo and you work on silo and it hits these benchmarks you get more stock in disney in netflix which would then put them on the level they would align these folks the creatives with the ceo of the company that's what you want that's what apple has that's what google has that's what facebook has that's what we do in silicon valley take a page from silicon valley netflix doesn't have to take a page from this they need only break ranks from the wga and the whatever the what is the ones they're the ones who are holding the ranks the am yeah am ptp ptp yeah the american motion picture and television producers what a terrible acronym um anyway uh the studios the streamers the studio should break ranks trust me this would be the best for everybody at the top and you say first hundred writers in get the gigs we're gonna we're gonna hire great writers and um the race is on to get one of these hundred full-time seats and then when we have overflow work yeah we're gonna do freelancers and let people have because what you're there what you're proposing is it's very much like old hollywood like studio like rko would be hiring like a room full of writers and they'd be you you're doing a wrestling picture go right you know like you are getting assignments and you know what you worked for the studio pretty quick because you have the chat gpt and then this whole thing of like oh did chat cbt help me it's like who cares if it helps you you're a full-time employee write great stuff if you write it fast if you write it slow it doesn't matter just write great stuff you still need writers still need to have some sort of ownership in the things they're creating residual that's again that's how you build a long time options why would you want just residuals in one show when you could own disney stock only disney stock never sell it worked out as long as you worked out some alternative like that that also provides compensation sure that in that case sure all right let's rip through some other news here we also have uh hbo max is gonna be called max no more it's just max now well it's good and then it's more than doubled in size because it's got all the discovery shows now i don't i mean i like shark stuff with my kids i like nature documentaries yeah so that's good for me literally they 35 000 hours of content in the new max more than double what was on the same price max and it's same price uh and it's you know now it's got hgtv discovery food network uh i may be down with some food network yeah i'm down with some food network so like right if you want the complete diners dive in drive-ins and dives that's now on max yeah and yeah it's a you know pricing pricing is the same um so uh so there you go commercial free tier remains 15.99 a month ad supported tier 10 bucks a month they added a new tier they've got a$20 new tier yeah with hd so it's 4k max ultimate ad free what does that mean it's uh you can stream in 4k and uh they have that offline so like you just like netflix you could download a few episodes of a show and watch it on the plane yes yes yes yes i like that that's the new$20 max max plan great i love it great job um that works for me i think and i guess people are a little um i guess they're a little uh uh some people are hand-wringing about hbo max versus max who cares you get used to it there was a little saltiness in general like they're they're doing some weird stuff in terms of how they credit like they used to list credits by like directors writers and all you know now they're just lumping all the credits in this like little box called creators so yeah you can see here like the creators of raging bull include peter savage martin scorsese paul schrader who wrote it jake lamotta who it's about or like it's just a weird thing that that writers are not not super happy about yeah that seems unfair that seems like a power move that seems like uh what we call in the business a d move like it's a d bag move it's just some power play there to right well because now nobody who directed it nobody they these people created it it's another attempt to like put all films tv shows youtube videos twitch streams it's all just content now it's not you know like they don't differentiate so people are a little salty about that and and in general it's not a great time to be david zaslav in hollywood he's got a lot of negative but did you see him getting booed that he gave uh yeah did you see this clip university yeah yeah uh we'll insert the clip right here i have the honor to present david zasloff for boston university's honorary degree

56:01he was at boston university and the graduating class chanted pay your writers um so right i feel like that the launch comes at a at a bad time for them but i don't think people are that upset about just the idea of discovery content teaming with with hbo max content and i think that uh you know i think i think they're right in some ways that this is a more well-rounded catalog now whereas hbo max before leaned in favor of prestige shows stuff that appeals to people like me who love hbo kind of that kind of peak tv content this now has a ton more family stuff it's got a ton more reality tv unscripted documentary but if i click the hbo button i'm in the hbo world so just like when i'm in the disney app i click the star wars button or the marvel button i'm in that world and i don't have to see the other stuff you can still find your hbo stuff you can still find your warner brothers movies and your harry potter films and whatever there's some hbo show that uh was at can that they're saying it's like about a pop star or something but it's kind of like the new euphoria or something yeah it's actually i think it was hank zary in it somebody yeah yes yes he is in it i believe cool uh sam levinson who created euphoria he's barry levinson rain man director barry levinson's son uh he co-created it with the weekend you know the guy oh okay blinding lights and the r &b singer they're saying it's got some shocking scenes in it shocking it's very device very controversial the setup is the weekend plays this guy who's a club owner in la and also like a weird like cult leader guru and this young pop star lily rose depp johnny depp's daughter oh yeah she's great she she plays this up-and-coming pop star who kind of falls into his web of influence and sort of he becomes like kind of this spengali kind of force in her life controlling her wait a second wasn't this like a lot of kesha didn't the artist kesha have somebody who was an abusive person dr luke i believe is that guy's name the producer uh yes yes uh there are lots of weird power dynamic hollywood music industry kinds of stories that i think this is playing off of but it's it apparently the show is pretty sexually explicit and really dives into a lot of the domination submission kind of themes and and yeah it's it it it's been very controversial so far and rolling stone also published an expose about how it was kind of a wild out of control set and very chaotic well that's what they said about euphoria is that there was some uncomfortableness on the euphoria set as well so i guess if you're so these are pushing the envelope that have plagued sam levinson yeah if you're pushing the envelope on some of this content um you're it's yeah right interesting i mean euphoria is terrifying this terrifying as a parent i had a man yeah well no i mean just like kids doing too yeah and just kids doing like really things kids shouldn't be doing and you're like i guess some kids are doing things they shouldn't be doing but this is really pushing the envelope spotify it always it always feels to me like that larry clark stuff you remember like kids that 90s movie kids and he did bully and a few others where it's like nobody's saying that they're that this is not happening at all there are definitely kids like this but it also kind of exists to be this sort of salacious exploitative like make you afraid for the children yeah it seems like it's a playbook of like this is going to terrorize parents and it's going to create some i guess pr whatever or there could just be a buzz or it could just be artistically what they want to pursue you know in the way scorsese wanted to pursue taxi driver i guess it was in some ways people said the same thing about taxi driver people said the same thing as about pulp fiction which has uh essay in it um to use it i guess taxi driver got booed at can for the violence people were very disturbed by that that that that final sequence where yes which is just everybody's yeah and that was black and white right if i'm correct and i think some of it is yeah i think it's black and white so they they kind of tried to obscurify it a bit um yeah pretty interesting news in the podcasting space which affects me so i want to bring it up spotify reportedly developing bots to mimic your favorite hosts and so bill simmons um the ringer spotify purchased it for over 200 million i understand and he has a new show with derrick thompson who's kind of a cool uh podcast host and thinker and here's a clip of bill discussing this with the change i'm glad you brought this up because I don't think Spotify is going to get mad at me for this.

1:00:45Like we're developing that stuff and there is going to be a way to use my voice for the ads. You have to obviously give the approval for the voice, but it opens up from an advertising standpoint, all of these different great possibilities for, you could have localized, let's say we did a thing with like a ticket resale or something like that. You could geo-target that for each city. The more interesting thing for me with that is, could you take my podcast, like me and House and Jacoby talking about Game 2 Lakers Nuggets, which will be right before this part of the podcast. Could they take that and make AI a Spanish version of it?

1:01:23Could they put it in French? Could the AI people, could they take the translations and just quickly take our voices and just make a podcast in 35 languages? And the answer to that is yes. We've been pitched on it. by tons of startups already. So this podcast could be in 10 languages, but they would take our voices on. My chief concern would be what happens when an advertiser contacts the ringer and says, hey, in this one episode, your host says this about our company. We don't like that. We find that offensive. Can you go and edit that and make him say something else? Yes. If you've already signed off and said, the ringer is allowed to edit my voice with AI, what's stopping them from putting words in my mouth yeah this has got to be against the rules and the contracts luckily i own that's uh my own podcast but that's a big one right you you in your situation there you don't have a producer who would come in and take the rate but if i if i'm on a ringer show i don't own that show there's an opportunity for me which is if i misspoke and i said oh they have a billion subscribers and it was really like oh they have a million subscribers in post-production of my team came to me and said hey we're just going to have the ai have you say million millions you said billions by accident and fix it great yeah i would be okay with that but yes what's so fascinating about these things is it's always both sides of the coin we can always think of a scenario where like oh this would be super helpful like like yeah i totally get like bill simmons could put his podcast all around the world and it's his voice and it sounds like i love and people get to know him instead of a guest host or a translator i want to be big in japan yes yeah everybody understands the immediate appeal of an idea like that but then there's but then there's the flip side of like but then what's stopping you know him from going to somebody else's show and saying you know what i think he he's unfair to fast 10 i'm gonna have his review be a little bit warmer it's funny too because like i was thinking about the ad reads and i was thinking gosh you know like one of the you know chores of a podcaster's life you know you have to do your chores in life is bill simmons reads a lot of ads and bill simmons has to read a lot of ads because he's a figurehead he will read ads for other shows in the network and i'm sure that's going to take a couple hours a week for him and i bet you there's more advertisers who want to do custom things so i could do an ad for you know whatever toyota but if it was like you said if it's in new york i could say and call you know jimmy at you know brooklyn toyota and number 444-555-1212 and be like wow Jimmy got a custom ad and they'll pay an extra 10 % for that that would be dope and then if he didn't have to read it like when you used to listen to Howard Stern and every time they'd have a celebrity come in they'd have them record like a bug for the radio station you wouldn't have to have people come in and do that you could just call their people and be like hey can we use Snoop Dogg's voice to say you're listening to KLSX and be like sure you don't need to bother these people And like even Ryan Reynolds helps us out sometimes for honest trailers.

1:04:28Like he's recorded, you know, right. Deadpool. He'll do voiceover for us. He's such a, he's such a nice guy. He's really great at helping us out. Yeah. We don't, we wouldn't have to bother Ryan Reynolds, the person anymore to like sneak off into the corner and record some Deadpool audio on your phone for us. He could just say, yeah, here's a, here's an AI Deadpool. You can have him say whatever you want. I mean, if, I mean, can you imagine if like, it already exists. speak in arabic and people could listen to the show in the uae i just got back from dubai in the uab uae and like wow um i mean that tech already exist you could already basically make a make a celebrity say whatever you want like i've heard oh no people are doing it with me already stuff yeah people are having these i mean there was somebody who created an all-in thing where you could take any pop culture song uh you know like a hip-hop song and then have us sing it sure and like one of them has like the n-word in it i'm like oh guys this is not like please i think one thing like that sounded so scary but i think that ai in some ways it's become so big that i feel like there is more awareness than i expected like i feel like people are already a little more cynical than uh than maybe they would have been about like people assume all of this stuff is fake yeah no it's not joe it's so clear did you see this the the young joaquin phoenix they cast an actor to play teenage Joaquin Phoenix in Bows of Rage.

1:05:55A real young man. But people assume that it's a deep fake because he looks a lot like young Joaquin Phoenix. And so this kid did interviews where he's like, no, I'm real. I'm not an AI cartoon of Joaquin Phoenix's de-aged face. I'm a real young man. So yeah, people are assuming things are AI that aren't even AI. Yeah, I think that's like people are adapting to this. And so that is a smart move. It's an adaptation. uh as we wrap here i've been seeing these uh commercials for the flash and i'm kind of getting hyped up to see what my kids it's going to be the best dc film in a while it's gotten a lot of very you know it was a real troubled production everybody ezra miller has problematic getting negative headlines and they're a kind of a problematic person and this the the production was a very elongated trouble production so the fact that it's not a disaster is like kind of a minor miracle anyway but no the buzz has been the buzz has been pretty strong yeah people are i mean people saw it this week i think say they let some fans see it and the fans are losing their minds yes cinema con was where it debuted and it got a lot of positive buzz and now more fans have seen it and yeah the reviews have all been strong people are i think people are really hyped to get michael keaton back as batman i think that that's a that's a touchstone movie for a lot of people around my age yeah no it's gonna be great i'm excited batman yeah well i mean it's the multiverse just lets you play and as we've seen and then this next marvel volley of is it going to be good what do you think your expectations the next marvel phase is it going to be good or not oh okay yeah like kang dynasty everything yeah they got a lot to figure out i really loved guardians 3 the new one that's out right now it's good yeah i really like that one i feel like they've been kind of an off i haven't i haven't been as into the marvel movies lately it's started to get a little sort of generic and tropey and everything is filled in that yeah i feel repetitive everything in that volume that one green screen room they've got yeah that's everything kind of a samey boring video game guardians james gunn james gunn did a really nice job with it it has an emotional core that they haven't had in a while so i think if they if they can lean into that i think that sets them up pretty well but i'm excited for x-man and fantastic four because i love those two groups so that could be but that's after the kang stuff right or is that towards the end of the kang they'll have those people showing up towards the i think that's towards the end so we'll do the kang stuff and then that will probably introduce the fantastic four and then we'll get a standalone fantastic four movie i think in 2025 something like that 25 or 26 all right so your recommendation for this show silo everybody go check out silo anything else that's hot uh and i know the uh the bear season two is coming back the bear season two in in june uh we also get a new season of black mirror uh in june on netflix which is cool that could be finally long awaited long i thought they just shut that down it's been about it's been about three years i think since he came back and did any any black mirrors it was that it was that interactive one bandersnatch or whatever i think yeah i never watched it new black mirror we've got a big new season with lots of you know like sama hayek's in it aaron paul is in it like and i think there's a it looks like the aaron paul one is a continuation of uss callister the jesse plemons oh yes star trek one okay so that's that's dope if you can start yeah having um some continuation of those stories man that makes that anthology series really interesting charlie brooker's been teasing that it's going to be more like the black mirror verse and it episodes are going to start interacting with other episodes which is cool oh and then i think you should leave we get more netflix i think you should leave next week what is that i think it tim robinson comedy sketch show on netflix it's where all the memes come from oh that guy who's like the guy who says really really yeah yeah or in the hot dog suit uh that's that's tim robinson it's a he was a saturday night live writer uh and now he has his own netflix sketch show 98 percent i've never seen it unbelievable funny is it really good oh my god so good so there's two seasons now they're only it's 15 minute episodes and there's only six per season so it's like it's like a movie every few years but they're so it's somewhere between a saturday night live episode and tiktok and it's kind of made to go viral on tiktok yes it's just short comedy sketches and they're all and basically the whole show has gone viral at this point you know i realized something about tiktok and how pernicious it is um i think it is ruining people's uh lives in that every single clip uh because there's people starting to put movies on there where like best of the soprano so my feed is basically like food and best of sopranos uh clips and then i you know because i watched uh you know like a breaking bad clip now i get a bunch of breaking bad clips and what i realized they're doing is they're just firing your dopamine whatever the great moments were in a season of a show um they fire off your dopamine which then fries your brain so after an hour or two of watching the best of clips you know which in a way youtube did you know you get like into the sopranos clips on youtube and it's kind of nice what this does is it ruins the um i think it fries your dopamine receptors because you're seeing some fight that's a race fight typically uh you see some uh karens then you see some great scenes from the sopranos then you see a shark attack then you see some incredible piece of food what it's doing is it's hitting your limbic system and it's hitting your dopamine receptors and it's just frying you out and you don't need that much and it's like this is doing too much damage to your dopamine receptors i honestly think that this is messing up and i think that's what the algorithm is doing this uh you know visual crack hits and it's bad for you because it ruins art and then i think it makes people anxious and it resets you so you're only um you're you're only and i'm trying to in real time frame this for people i think what it's doing is it's just giving you these like little mini hits without giving you the context around them without letting them breathe a little bit and it's very bad for you i think this is ruining i don't think our our brains are designed to process this amount of input and stimulus and information all day and i mean even just like the news like the news used to be like you'd wake up in the morning and read the paper you'd get home from work and there'd be like a half hour of news.

1:13:06And like, that was it. That was all the news. And now we're just flooded 24 seven with headlines and opinions and this news and that news. And we're not, our brains aren't made to process that amount. And I think it's the same with TikTok. And I read a thing about how young people are using TikTok as a search engine now, like instead of going to Google and searching whatever you're looking for, you just hit it into tick tock and then quickly scan through videos until somebody is talking about yes what you're looking for and like that seems like such a chaotic brain frying way to engage with the world i can't even imagine thinking that's easier than just typing it into a search engine it's just a totally different way for your brain to be organized this is a pavlovian um dystopian uh technique that was uh codified exemplified in a very famous disturbing film from 50 years ago that some people think is uh one of the most like at the time was considered one of the most disturbing scenes in a film the film was called clockwork orange they've got his eyes pried open and they're forcing him to watch ultra violence pry his eyes open and they make him watch horrible stuff like ultra violent stuff to try to do this aversion therapy where they shock him when he sees violence because he's a violent person it's kind of what we're doing to ourselves and i think this is why like this stuff should not be a kid should not be doing this and i see kids sometimes lon you know friends you know whatever you know people in our orbit and they're on this iphone they get this iphone 13 14 15 years old they're on tiktok and they're curled up in a ball and it looks like clockwork orange to me that's what i see yeah that's what i say no i you know i'm always so hyper aware of being like the old guy who's like it's too much you know like i i get it and like for them it doesn't seem like too much stimulus and it's just natural yeah to browse the internet that way i i get it but yeah it does it does give me pause for sure the just constant non-stop feed of information i think it kills your attention your ability to focus on stuff and what i've started to do now is when i watch something i love like secession um i just put my phone in the other room and charge it you got put it on airplane mode yeah that's i don't want to miss scenes i don't want to miss moments if you talk about film and tv on the internet a lot as i do you start to notice that people don't always notice everything in the movies and shows that they've watched and i think part of that too is that they don't even know that they're missing stuff because they're on their phone like there'll be visually something is revealed in a movie and people are missing it because they were not watching the screen at that exact moment so i do think it's changing the way twitter they're playing chess you know but for me it's like you don't even think of it you know no i was playing you know i'm playing blitz chess while watching a tv show i'm like well which am i doing you know like what am i doing here like i mean i'm playing blitz chess i'm watching the movie yeah you're sort of doing both but at 60 instead of 100 yeah that's just not a good experience because my chess rating is going down am i i'm missing the great moments all right this has been lon harris follow him on twitter twitter.com slash lon's uh inside.com streaming any other plugs for lon where else can we find you boys check out my check out my podcast binge boys how about nick and i watch uh watch whatever's going on in streaming and review it we're talking about silos all right oh silo this week can't wait binge boys okay everybody we'll see See you next time, bye bye!