Does Clawdbot (OpenClaw) Need Eyes? (feat. Alex Finn and Matt Van Horn) | E2247

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25:48Watching every dollar you spend and being protective of your runway is the most important skill for founders to take responsibility of. So take control of your finances and check out every.io for all of your incorporation, banking, payroll, benefits, accounting, taxes, and other back-end office administration needs. Matt Van Horn, you just heard this architecture and this setup. What do you think about, hey, let's parallel the real world. Let's just take the roles that exist in the real world and do that versus having an Ultron or a Voltron, all the pieces come together in one giant mind. How do you look at the paradigm and the metaphor?

26:30I think it's all coming together so quickly. It's so exciting. So something that just came out, I don't know if you saw this, Jason. Gary Tan tweeted about it yesterday. So what StrongDM is doing? Have you heard what they're up to? No, tell us. All right. So here, I can just share my screen and I can load the tweet if that's helpful. Shout out to Dan Shapiro, founder of Glowforge, one of my favorite entrepreneurs who turned me on to this. He said, what a powerful idea. We build a software factory, development where specs, scenarios, drive age the right code, run harness, converge without human review.

27:00And I think the most important thing is this right here in rule form. code must not be written by humans code must not be reviewed by humans period right so like this crazy concept so strong dm made an awesome blog post you should go go over it check it out but what the basic idea here is a lights out factory and then here's here's dan shapiro's kilroy project which i've been if you don't know what a lights out this morning it's a fully automated factory where there's no humans. And the concept is, if you turn, you don't need to have the lights on because there's no humans in there. That's lights out.

27:35So this is lights out startup. No humans touch the code as the instruction given to the agents. Yeah. So what's interesting is, so my last company, we literally manufactured ovens, right? And so I would go to the factory and my lines were only making tens of thousands of ovens. So literally there'd be humans putting things together. It felt very old school. And then I saw the crazy like millions of toaster oven line right next to me and literally the lights were out. And I said to the owner of the factory, how do I get one of those? And he's like, well, you're not selling enough ovens. Right. And so it's it's where it's worth the engineering investment.

28:12Anyway, with the cost of tokens becoming so, so cheap, right, that the amount of computers that Alex is buying on a daily basis and running cheaper models and more expensive models, right, that this idea that you can run a lights out factory for your software development is crazy. So I'm working on a project right now for myself. And so literally this morning, I said, okay, take Dan Shapiro's code and learn how this project works. It's like, okay, I now know Kung Fu. I now know how Dan Shapiro's Lights Out Factory project works with strong DM's influence. Okay, great. Now look at my code base for this project I'm working on.

28:50Okay, great. Now it just needs a feature list. And I'm like, okay, well, you're expert in my project. Go propose 20 features. So I used the compound engineering cloud code skill. And I said, okay, please propose the next 20 features that you think I'd probably like. and it made this 15 page document. I was like, honestly, it looks pretty good. I don't really have any feedback. Go. And then I was at, so literally, so I had my laptop in my car, right? So I've got, took that to the gym. Then was at the gym, had the laptop. I made sure to plug it in. My battery maintenance is a disaster lately. My laptop lasts one hour running Cloud Code now.

29:24I have one of the latest machines, right? So I plug it in at the gym and literally the session was just going for two hours. which is the longest session I'd ever seen in Cloud Code. And it's building my features. Literally just gave it the GitHub of what Dan Shapiro made. And it's running right now. And what does it look like? I don't know. Ask me in one week. But this idea is blowing my mind. What Alex is working on, what Dan Shapiro is working on, what StrongDM has actually built and shipped, this is crazy. It feels to me like we are crossing into a new era. Matt, you and I live through. couple of these together, broadband, mobile, cloud, et cetera.

30:05Alex, you had a question, and then Oliver, I'll swing it to you. Yeah, I wanted to talk about the local models versus the cloud-based models using Opus or whatever, because it does seem to me that what we're describing only really works for the average person or the average developer if they don't spend$100 ,000 on inference. And so, Matt, I'm curious, you mentioned using cloud code to do all this work, whereas Alex Finn was talking about using a lot of local models, GLM 4.7, for example. How do you balance out when you're using local models versus cloud-based models, and And how good are the open models today compared to the state-of-the-art offerings from Anthropic and OpenAI?

30:36Yeah. So I think it depends on kind of hobbyist versus venture-backed, right? Like I think if you're a venture-backed company, like you want to spend as much money on tokens as you possibly can, right? I was talking to a friend who's an engineer at Meta yesterday, and he said there's a leaderboard for who's spending the most tokens as like a badge of honor inside Meta. It's like who's burning the most jet fuel is going to get to space faster. Of course, that sounds crazy, but we've watched companies like Uber and Airbnb and, you know, Robinhood spend money. They burnt money. In this case, it's tokens in order to achieve increasing goals.

31:14It doesn't mean you want to do it stupidly, though, of course. Yes. And so I think there's there's intelligence around it. Right. And so, like, again, I was just texting with Dan Shapiro. He's like, I'm in the process of adding Kimi K 2.5 and Z.ai GLM 4.7 to kill Roy. Right. Because again, there's going to be a lot of hobbyists that are running these projects. But from a venture-backed perspective, I want to spend all the tokens. I want my software engineers to be like, sorry, I hit my$200 Claude plan. What do I do next? Do I switch to Codex until I fill that one up, or do I just spend all the tokens?

31:46And my answer is spend all the tokens.

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32:54Visit northwestregisteredagent.com slash twist for more details. Oliver, you also set up a trifecta and Oliver Corazon is here. Oliver, you also set up a couple of tiers of cloud-based token usage and LLMs, yes? Yeah, so over the weekend, I just made sure that we were running, you know, right now we so far have Kimmy, Google, Gemini and Claude connected. What did you do in terms of creating an LLM council for our internal replicants at launch? This is really a tool for us to use. And I did get this idea from Perplexity, which recently launched their model council, which right when I saw this, I was basically like, we can just make this easily ourselves.

33:40and one thing that's interesting about the different models is they're all better at certain things so google has access to youtube and claude seems to not really have up-to-date information so if you go into claude and ask it hey what's open claw it actually doesn't know it it will start at least from my experience it will say i don't know what that is is it does it is it this random thing so kind of putting a few different models into one dashboard on the dashboard that we built out for our open claw bot we have created a new section which is a model console based on the perplexity feature and basically what this does it is is it aggregates three different models so at the moment i'm using two anthropic models opus and sonnet but i will move to using three completely different models from the different providers and basically what this does is you can ask it a question it will answer it will take the answers of three different models.

34:37Okay, so you asked the question, find me 200 to 500 capacity venues for launch festival in Austin with speakers and guests. You asked all models, you click the ask all models, and then we see in the first model, Claude Opus 4.6, if we click expand response, we can see the response from Claude Opus. Then if we go to Gemini, we can see its response. And then finally, if you do Sonnet, which is the cheaper version. Now we've got three different models giving us three different answers. And if we scroll down, the model council will combine those three answers. And it gives us conference and hotel venues, the Line Austin, Fairmount Austin.

35:19And theoretically, this is a better answer than just going to any one. Correct, Oliver? Exactly. And as I mentioned before, they all are better at certain tasks, certain questions. So So this is just a feature that you're able to create. And this is just showing that kind of I was just confused kind of why Perplexity would launch that it felt like more of a feature that could easily be replaced by OpenClaw. Well, Perplexity wants to give great answers. That's their goal is to just give great answers and make their product better. So hitting three different ones makes a better response. It also, to Matt Van Horn's point, burn all the tokens, get better answers.

35:58But what I would like to see here is a Kimmy instance. And I would like it to rank. What I want the model council to do is to rank the answers and to say which one did a better job. So there should be an LLM sitting above this kind of grading them, I think, as to which one was the better answer and putting it together. And then if we have this running locally, Alex Finn, I see you salivating here. You're like, oh, my God, this could be big. Yeah, Alex, are you doing this or you just think this is interesting? I think it's interesting. And I'm also in the process of doing this. So I'm slowly implementing as many local models as I can to replace as many of these workflows as I can.

36:36And I'm going to be honest, like Cloud Opus 4.6, it's better than any local model. There's no local model that's there yet. There are models that are close. Kimmy K 2.5 is almost Opus level intelligence. But I think the way we're trending is in the next 12 months or so, we will have models that are just about as good there with Opus. And you'll be able to replace all of these workflows with local models. And I think that's incredibly interesting when we can have our own private intelligence with its own private data running locally on our computer. I think that's really when we're starting to hit the end game of all this.

37:11Matt Van Horn, that to me is like, and we had the founder of ExoLabs. I don't know if you know, is it EXO? ExoLabs. We had the founder on Friday, Alex, and they let you, daisy chain is the term I'm using, but you could stack multiple Mac Studios, Mac Minis, whatever, and get additional capacity to obviously make really interesting, you know, clusters, I guess would be the way to say it. And his thought was, it's most important for you to control your data and not give it to the other language models, not train them on what you're doing. And so for some combination of proprietary innovation, privacy, et cetera.

37:49Now there's also this idea that you could have 95 % less costs, but I saw somebody over the weekend, Matt, who has their augustration level, their chief of staff, their CEO in the cloud, their Ultron using the best model. They determined that's cloud 4.6. I think there's some consensus around that for reasoning, but then giving the line workers their assignments and their strategy and letting them use Kimmy. What are your thoughts on that, Matt? I personally have not talked into Kimmy. I understand from a local perspective, it's value. I'm not interested in running it locally yet because I'm happy to spend the tokens right now.

38:25But what I do find, and I think Peter Steinberger has done a really good job, the founder of OpenClaw, is, and people say he's making fun of of uh claude in a way he's like i do not write code in claude like he said that many many times right but he says his favorite model for running open claw he's like i only use codex right and so so what's interesting is so what what uh so to bring it back to just the the strong dm thing that i'm running right now that's running different things so i i write right all my code in claude right but i have a codex instance because i have the the best chat gpt account But anyway, it told me just the app just installed what Dan Shapiro made.

39:06It told me to use Codex. So, OK. So it's literally writing all my code and Codex right now for the first time on an app that I wrote completely in Claude. And so I think there are pros and cons to different models. And to have an orchestrator that can use the right model for the right task, like maybe Codex is better for my coding job. I don't know why it shows it. I'm just going to trust. It was Claude that I asked to go set it up and it started doing that. And so I think that this idea, and especially if you have sensitive data, if you need things locally, but there are other solutions like that.

39:36Like if you look at Amazon Bedrock, for example, like they have models running locally on AWS for ChatTBT, for OpenAI that are stored within that section. They're not going back to the servers on the other end. So there are kind of in-betweens on this. I think doing things too locally, like I don't think we should go back. Like if I go back to path, right. If you remember path, I remember we, the social application from back in the day. So social network from, you know, late, late 2010s. I don't remember. My favorite. Oh, so, uh, but, uh, I remember we had this huge board debate, board level debate.

40:11Okay. Do we keep giving Amazon AWS all the money? Right. Or do we build out our own server farm? Right. And we built out our own server. It was a huge infrastructure project. like we did that, right? And again, I have no learning if that was good or bad, but it felt like not a core competency of our business. And so I did save money, but it distracted our small team. We were 50 people and we had two engineers working on that, right? Versus like AWS GoScale, right? And so I think that there's a balance here that going like, again, as a hobbyist to go local, great. But if you're running a serious business, like you need to figure out the bare minimum to meet your security requirements, but you have to beat it.

40:53I'm not saying don't not take it seriously, right? But figure out what your Amazon bedrock is, your equivalent that Microsoft has and like figure out how to feel good enough there and then go. Because I don't think it's going to be healthy for innovation to go back to being local and hosting your own servers. For the record, I completely agree. I think at the moment it's illogical for most businesses to be doing this setup, to buy a bunch of Mac minis and Mac studios and then run 100 instances of Kimmy K 2.5. I just think it doesn't make as much sense and you lose a lot of velocity. The reason why I'm going with this and trying to build it out is I think this is the future.

41:32I'm placing my bets on the future. I think what Alex over at ExoLabs, for some reason I'd help the people on shows named Alex, but Alex from ExoLabs, what he's building out over there, he's building towards a future where you can run these monstrous models on something as small as a Mac Mini. And so I think right now it is just hobbyists. I'm not telling big corporations to go buy a bunch of Mac studios. That makes zero sense. But we will be going in that direction, in my opinion. That's where I'm placing my bets. We will eventually be able to run Opus 4.6 on a Mac Mini. And the people building the infrastructure out now for that future are going to be the ones that reap the benefits when it does come around.

42:13You know, we brought Matt Van Horn on and we said, hey, Matt's working on this 30 days thing. There's V2. And then we never talked about what V2 is. So I think we should pause and learn about what he has cooked up lately because I've been tracking the GitHub starts. I've been tracking the reviews. People are raving. Matt, version two, talk to us. Yes, version two is here. So recap, last 30 days is the best way. Again, it's a little geeky. You don't need a whole cloud code set. I mean, a whole cloud bot setup, but you do need cloud code to use it. but kind of the basic gist is you can just type in the command slash last 30 days and then you can learn about any topic and and one interesting use case that i've been seeing is so initially when i was talking about last week kind of prompting was like the most popular thing we just launched it so it was like okay how do i use nana banana pro the desk how do i get my claw open claw setup working the best what are the killer use cases for open claw but what's crazy is I'm seeing sales teams, literally sales teams before they go into the meeting.

43:11Because what do you do to get your research on like, okay, I'm about to talk to this brand. What's going on with them in the last 30 days? And you literally type last 30 days, just name of brand. And you get everything. Like, oh, there was this scandal. Oh, they closed these stores. Oh, the CEO got fired. And it's like, where would I get that information? Like Google News? Search Twitter? Like I literally don't know how I would get that information. And last 30 days, like you could just get it. And so I actually was talking to a friend of mine. He's building a new CRM, AI CRM company that I'm dying to invest in.

43:48He won't let me yet. And I was just like, you just need to steal my code base and put it into your CRM because holy crap is this good for sales, just as an example. But people are using it for sales. People are using it for prompting techniques. People are using it for world news, right? A good one, Kanye West in the news a lot. How do you keep track of Kanye West and what he's doing? I'm so happy with the responses. There's the apology tour. I'm Jewish. Kanye's my favorite artist. I had to block him on Spotify. I was so sad. He's gone on an apology tour. I've forgiven him. I've unblocked him.

44:26My kids can listen again. I see the apology tour. I see Bully, the new album's coming. I see the contrary. I see who's forgiven him. I see who has not forgiven him, right? And what's happened in the last 30 days, it's helpful if I can know if I could listen to Kanye. And then you find a bunch of influencers dancing around to Hail Hitler in the club and you have to then block him again. It's crazy. It's crazy. Not getting too deep into the Kanye side of things though, but you also changed the amount of time you can now search in V2. You can do seven and 14 days as well. So it's not just the full 30 days map.

44:59Let me give you the three key features. So number one, it's way better. It's way, way better. It searches a lot more. It runs a lot more queries. It's slower. Like I want people to complain about how slow it is because it's no longer like a minute and a half. It's usually like four to five minutes, but it's worth it. It's worth it. So it's interesting to see if people will complain and want like a turbo mode. You think of like the GPT fast modes from an API. I mean, I could build it, but I need the request. Anyway, so it's much, much better, number one. Number two, it could use X for free. giant asterisk.

45:32I'll give the asterisk in a second. And then number three is you can, and this is a feature that someone literally requested. And what's funny is my GitHub notifications are messed up. So I don't get an email or a push notification when someone comments on my project. I should. But literally, I just ask my agent, hey, anyone have any good ideas of how to make the product better? And it was like, I've sorted through all the requests people have made. Number three seems really good and I can implement it right now. And that was one of them was like, allow people to search just last seven days. And so I just said, okay.

46:03And literally, I shipped it, which was great. But I'll give the asterisk. So Peter Steinberger, so literally, our hero, OpenClaw founder, he's had this tool called Bird CLI for a while, as long as you do with the OpenClaw, even though there is a skill for it, which allows you to use X without using XAI tokens, if that makes sense. And literally five hours after my launch, my big video that I made using the newest Higgsfield AI, he literally announced on Twitter, sorry, I have to delete Bird CLI. And it got deleted and it's gone. But it's still working if you have it installed. And there's still hacks and ways to get around it.

46:49And I have an update that I could put out if those hacks stop working, but I haven't needed to yet until X people get mad at me and tell me to remove it also. But it's still working, even though there was an announcement that Bird CLI and the GitHub Bird CLI is deleted from the internet. Peter deleted it, and he commented on one of my posts, which made me feel like a celebrity was talking to me. And he said it was not my decision, and I still called him the goat because he is. It is really like if you think about what people use Reddit or Dig for back in the day, or Hacker News or Tech Meme. You just want to be up to date, right?

47:23And that is a core skill that you have to train people of like cool hunting. Like just stay up to date. Oliver and Lucas on my team put 30 day skill into this. So now every time we do something, I set up a skill every Saturday. I tell the replicants, please go use 30 days to get better and find the latest information on how to make better headlines for YouTube. Then on Sunday, we tell them to spend an hour doing the same thing for thumbnails. So just figure out what the greatest thing is and then add it to your skillset and then report back on what you learned every Saturday, every Sunday. I would normally give that to a human to do.

48:03And then you know what would happen with humans? They're fallible and they get tired. And sometimes we humans are lazy or distracted or we don't prioritize stuff. You can just have this recursive, constant learning happening all the time. So go to github.com slash mvanhorn slash last 30 days or follow mv-a-n-h-o-r-n on x. Great job, Matt. All right. What do we have next on the docket, Alex? Well, we wanted to talk with Alex Finn about social distribution and how he has been absolutely crushing it over on the YouTubes. This is an Oliver point. Oliver, I'm going to let you take it away. Since we had you on last week, I think you've grown 40 % on YouTube subscribers.

48:45That doesn't have anything to do with other platforms as well. and clearly you've gone all in. You bought the Mac Studio. You said you're going to buy the new one when it comes out. What have you learned about community going all in on something like ClaudeBot? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to it. The last month has been incredible from all social media perspective. YouTube, I've gone from 60 ,000 subs to 110 ,000 in a month, which is amazing. X, same thing. I think the number one thing I've learned is that when you truly find something you're passionate about, go as hard as you possibly can, as hard as humanly possible.

49:22And if you do that, you will succeed. And I know that's kind of cliche, but if you do it in a public manner where you're creating content, you're creating videos, you're tweeting, and you're putting your all into it, people feel the energy, people feel the passion. For instance, I do a live stream Monday, Wednesday, Friday, which I skipped to come on this amazing podcast, where it's grown from about 30 concurrent viewers to 800 concurrent viewers at a time over the last couple months. And the number one piece of feedback I get is, I don't agree with 80 % of the things you say, but you're so passionate about it, I have to keep watching.

49:55And so my advice and tips to people is this is, well, first of all, distribution is king. It's another cliche, but it's 100 % true, especially in a future where I'm not the only one making CloudBot content. There's thousands of people doing it. But if you can build distribution and build a community and build a bunch of people that believe in every single thing you say, you can succeed, even if there's hundreds of people doing the exact same thing. Do cool things, experiment, tinker, create content about it, get super passionate, and you'll get a lot of people following you, tracking every single thing you do and say, and then you put out a product, you'll be successful.

50:32Yeah. And I know that you have CreatorBuddy as well. What is this kind of building in public and building yourself up as a creator done for your SaaS? I mean, across the board, everything is absolutely exploded and i'm completely transparent about all my numbers and everything i'm making and all that and i'm like i'm happy to show the numbers uh right here like everything it's the sass it's here's youtube ad revenue uh has completely exploded the last 365 days you know we can see i'm now making almost a thousand dollars in youtube ad revenue a day now because of all this And it's done everything.

51:06The CreatorBuddy user base has gone up about 40 % over the last month, so about 40 % more paid subs doing$50 a month on CreatorBuddy SaaS, YouTube ad revenue, X ad revenue. I have a private community where I talk about AI that's 5X'd in the last month. So distribution explodes everything. It superpowers all your businesses. It superpowers all your revenue lines. And I think especially in a world where there are going to be layoffs, I think, again, not to fear monger, there are going to be layoffs, there are going to be people lose their job. This is your hedge against that building your following, building your distribution, because once you have that distribution, you're bulletproof, you can do literally anything you want.

51:47I would agree with this. If you're looking at content movements, I had famously two of the core developers from Bitcoin on this podcast in 2010, 2011. And I wrote a blog post about it, but then I kind of forgot about Bitcoin. I should have literally talked about Bitcoin for the next hundred weeks. And I should have invested in it as making up for that mistake, although my wife by a bunch and we made millions of dollars. So we're all good. Don't worry. Openclaw at launch.co openclaw at launch.co. The next founder university is going to be dedicated to openclaw founders. You don't need to be incorporated.

52:28You can just be two or three tinkerers, make something, anything. And then you can take a picture of this QR code, which we'll add here and we'll put it all around my head. Take a picture of that. It'll fire off an email to openclaw at launch.co. We're going to give 10 people who pitch us on their idea or show us some stuff, 25K, their first check into their startup. And we're going to give 10 people the ability to come to our accelerator, which is the standard 125K deal. If you're further along, we might pick you for the 125K. Or if you're just like two or three people tinkering, but you have technical skills, we will offer you the 25K.

53:06So 10 and 10, that's, yeah, what is that? That's$1.5 million in investments in 20 open claw companies happening in the next 30 days. Just openclawatlaunch.co. We're all in. We're claw-shotted. Just one question I had for everybody was, what's going on with Opus 4.6? Has anybody played with it in depth and can tell me if it is, in fact, much different than 4.5 or to 4.6? I think the model is great, by the way. The model is fantastic. I'll have to jump in. I've been using it a bunch the last few days. Partially the model is great. It's partially Anthropic has improved the tooling even more inside Cloud Code.

53:53They have what's called agent teams now, which is basically you give Cloud Opus 4.6, hey, can you build this for me? And what Cloud Code will do now is actually spin up multiple instances of Cloud Code to tackle that problem. And so before, it's what was called subagents. And subagents was basically one Cloud Code instance splitting itself five or six different ways. Now what it actually does is it takes and creates five or six different instances of Cloud Code that can talk with each other, communicate with each other, and you can talk to each one individually. So it's both a really good improvement to the model and also a huge jump in the tooling as well.

54:33Any thoughts, Matt Van Horn? Have you been able to distinguish any difference between this 0.1 upgrade? I have not. Again, humans should not look at the code. Humans should not write code. Humans should not review code. I just assume it got better. And I'm sure they'll bill me more for it. But I did just ask the last 30 days. So if it comes back at a reasonable time period, then it gets interesting. I'll let you know. Human free code. That's our theme for the day. Alex Maffethorn, thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you on Wednesday, which is in about six open claw years. Just come back in 48 hours.

55:10Let's run it back on Wednesday. I mean, I can't stop thinking about it. I'm out here skiing and I'm literally talking to my two clawed agents. And if you work for me or you work at any of the startups we've invested in, just stop doing what you're doing and get on OpenClaw. Get something set up safely, safely, safely, and then go from there. Actually, you had one story left, Alex. Did you have a story about safety and OpenClaw that we can have Alex and Matt Van Horn comment on? Yeah. So over the weekend, the OpenClaw team announced that they're going to work with VirusTotal to scan skills that are on the Claw hub.

55:46and they say, look, this is not a silver bullet. This is not going to solve the problem. But at a minimum, it's providing a layer of security. And so, Alex, Matt, I'm just curious on the skill front, if you think this is a good enough step to get people to a point of confidence or if this is just a thin band-aid over a gaping wound and therefore not enough to really solve any of the security issues we talked about. I think it's, again, it's a band-aid, right? Like I have the most popular X search tool. Like why should I be allowed to do that? like the X company should be able to stop me. Like who, who, like literally I did, I never looked at the code.

56:19I trust it because it's, I give very simple instructions. Right. But I own that skill. Right. And so like, and it's, it says exit it. It doesn't use like, you remember like when you write a Twitter app back and it had to be called Tweety or something like that. Right. And so like, there's, it's good that someone is looking at my code to confirm that it's not malware, at least. I think not malware doesn't work. These are the basic tests that are important. And then verification can come later. I just gave my team the green light to use the X API and pay, I think, 100 or 200 bucks a month for the basic one.

56:54What's the difference between, like, are you using MCP or scraping? How does the, or the Claude sidebar or Chrome extension, how are you with last 30 days getting X content versus using the API? Yeah. So, um, so back in the day when I built last 30 days, less than 30 days ago, there was no X API that was available to the public. So I was using the X AI API, if that makes sense, which, which, which, which fairly charges you per token. I've not done the math between the new X API that launched one week ago versus the XAI. But I think that it just is more personalized for you and your account and being able to post, et cetera, I believe on the X front.

57:35But again, the core mechanics of the Bird CLI, you can still do it for free. So that still exists. It's deleted from GitHub, but ask your agent to figure out how to do it and your agent will figure it out. It is not blocked by X yet. By the way, I did get the response on the Opus from last 30 days. So the biggest thing is context window. So million token context window up from 200K. So that's the biggest win. And then what Alex mentioned, the agent teams is the real differentiators. And yeah, people like it. There's also a fast mode for 4.6, which costs several times as much, but you can kind of jump to the top of the queue and get faster inference.

58:19I'm really curious to see who's going to pay for that because it was already not cheap, Matt. And paying a multiple of that per token even you with your venture money will eventually start to cry, I think, at the amount of money you'll spend there. All right. Absolutely fantastic. Let's drop the boys off. Matt, great job. Ping me about the investment. Put in a little frisky bet. I'm feeling frisky. Open Claw's got me feeling frisky. I got the checkbook right here. I got to wire some, I got to send some wires. Alex Finn, if you want to be an entrepreneur at some point and like take venture money, let's talk, you and I.

58:53You have no outside investors, right, Alex? Uh, well, the cover of the first part, I'm already an entrepreneur, but the second part of taking investment money, have not done that yet, but you'll be the first person I go to. All right, there we go. I always like to be the first or third or fourth investor in great entrepreneurs and their companies. I also have the domain name begin.com, B-I-G-I-N.com, which I, yeah, I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on. And, uh, I think that is the best name possible for an open claw software product. So not AI.com. I mean, I did. There was an AI.com commercial.

59:28Let's play it and get everybody's reaction. Go ahead, Alex. Play the open. This is the AI.com. Some crypto company bought AI.com for$70 million. And I had a two-letter domain named 20.com. And I bought it for$70K 15 years ago. I sold it five years later for$1.8 million or something. so uh i probably should have held on to that but ai.com whoever owned that right place right time here's 30 second commercial goat if you're on the audio version it's two balls flying through the air they collide and they form an ai.com logo that looks very generic like some old twa logo it says agi is coming and then it prompts you to reserve your username jason i did this I am now AI.com slash Alex Wilhelm.

1:00:18But I will say that the scuttlebutt around the internet is that AI.com is essentially a open claw clone. So the idea here is that the guys behind Crypto.com, great branding, great domain name, are now going to build something called AI.com. It's promising an agent that'll do actual work for you. They spent a lot of money on the domain of the Super Bowl commercial. And Godspeed. Oliver, your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, the Super Bowl commercial was not great, obviously. They could have spent$20 in Higgs field credits on that video. That's probably the case, by the way. That looks like they spent$20.

1:00:58I mean, if you're watching the Super Bowl and it's loud and that epic music comes on, you'll get its attention. I do believe that they had the, you can reserve a domain name. That was kind of the whole hook of the commercial, is that people were rushing over to reserve a domain name. You can, I think producer Marcus got Marcus B. I was trying to get some low amount of letters, domain name. And then the next step after you reserve your domain name was to put your credit card in. So that step, I just, that's where I logged on. That's what I was like, no, I'm good. I don't, the crypto.com guys, I don't know if I want them to have my good credit card.

1:01:32Pass. Yeah, I have the rule that whenever someone advertises their product, but does not talk about what the product is or what the value is of the product, that I just automatically assume it's a scam and I do not buy into it. And I went to AI.com and the first thing it did was ask for my credit card number without even telling me what the product was. And I said, no way. There is a 0 % chance it's ever returned to anything. This is 100 % a scam. I mean, I didn't want to call this other company a scam, but the early Cluely advertising was very much the same. It was like, cheat on everything, but then it doesn't tell you what the product is or what the product does.

1:02:06And it's like, if you have a good product, I feel like you would tell me what it is. But the fact that you're not telling me what it is, I'm going to pass. You get to a credit card form. And then you have to pay to reserve your name, but they don't charge your card. So I guess they're doing that to charge you in the future, maybe. But at no point do they tell you what you're buying. You're buying a username, but for what? And they don't tell you what that is. There's no part of the onboarding. It's like you're getting a username for an AI agent that will do this for you. It's you're buying AGI.

1:02:38Give me your credit card number. You know what? I'm going to take the other side of it. I like it. I don't know why I like it. But I like that they have the audacity to do something so deranged as spend$70 million on an incredible domain name, give everybody a handle and figure it out later. I think what they should have discharged is charge$1 per handle and let you buy up to 10. That would be great. Or the first one's free and you get 10 of them. Then you just have to create the massive domain swatting. Let every credit card buy 10, every email. All right, Matt, you are going to order some sushi on your open claw.

1:03:17Let's see. What's going on over here? You ordered me lunch? So I don't have long till my next meeting. So what are the most powerful things I built? Sorry, Alex, I haven't built a whole business on my open claw. but order sushi where there's a sushi place downstairs. I get the same thing every time. And the web interface is so bad. There's no API. And so it's like my open claw clicking around. It took a long time to get right. Anyway, it's finally good. It works. I just ordered sushi, but here's something interesting. When I set this up, so it costs$19 for my sushi order. I actually said back in the day, you know, a week ago when I set up, do not spend more than$20 in case it like adds it four times or something.

1:03:55Right. That was my intent. Anyway, it just said, logged in, going to order sushi. The total's 20.73, up from 19.58. The roll went up$1. That's over$20. Do you still want the order? And so I literally would not have noticed this ever, but my Open Claw caught that dollar that raised prices since Friday, which is crazy. My friend had sent me over an ex post that I think was going viral that was talking about how Open Claw has a lot of security risks. And there was an example where someone was trying to maximize Open Claw and it bought an Alex Hermosi subscription, like that was like$2 ,000. And basically, the person went into OpenClaw and was said, what have you done for the last 24 hours and explained how it bought these subscriptions to make your life better to help improve everything to help OpenClaw make your life better, basically.

1:04:40But that kind of asks me to my next question for Alex, which is you mentioned security was a concern for a lot of SMBs and enterprises, and they shouldn't necessarily start using this tool now, but they will in the future. Why would you say that they shouldn't start at the moment? Should they start tinkering with it? Because that launch, we're seeing a lot of potential impact. Oh, no. If the messaging people understood from what I was saying is that companies should not tinker with it, that is not the message at all. My message to everyone is everyone should be tinkering with it. Every company, business, corporation, SMB should be tinkering with it.

1:05:14There are risks. There are security risks, right? Which is what makes it such a colossal opportunity at the moment is there are so many people scared. And when your competition is scared to use something, scared to dip their toes in something that's ultra powerful, that's your time to strike. That's your time to be careful, to make sure you do it the right way. But you also need to make sure you figure out how to implement it and use it because that's where the opportunity is. I mean, a big reason why I think my content, my channels have blown up so much in the last two weeks is I haven't been scared to make the investment and go all the way in and experiment and do new things.

1:05:50While other people are kind of scared to go out and buy a Mac mini for$600, I bought$20 ,000 of Mac studios, right? And so when your competition's nervous and scared to go all in, that's when you should be striking. So I think all the SMBs and corporations, if they're smart, would be implementing this and figuring out how to create value. We're at a brave new world. Great job, gentlemen. Matt Fedhor, I'll drop you off. Alex, we'll drop you off as well. And I think we have one more partner to say thank you to, Alex. Let's do that. So today on the Polymarket front, we're going to ask a question.

1:06:21When does Cloud5 come out? Now, we talked a lot about Opus 4.6, Jason, on the show today. Everyone loves it. So I was surprised to see people already betting over on Polymarket or wagering or predicting, if you will, when Cloud5 will come out. Now, there has been$1.2 million in volume here, and everything's pointing down. The odds are falling because it doesn't seem like it's going to come out soon. But still, there's a 55 % chance, according to the Polymarket Sharps, that by the end of March, we're going to have not just a new Claude Opus 4.7, but the entire newly new Claude 5 family. And I thought that was hella exciting.

1:06:56Well, what's most exciting about this is that the founder of... No, I'm just joking. Claude 5 is... The founders or the developers are not placing bets here. You can be sure of that. No, no. Although, can I just say how everyone is now looking through all the people who are making prediction bets and trying to figure out who is an insider. I keep seeing tweets about people going through, you know, apply marketing, caution and so forth. And it's really interesting. People are now like sleuthing for the cheaters to find them to get ahead of it. I love watching information flow. It's a blast. It's amazing.

1:07:27All right. That's been another amazing episode of Twist. He's at Alex on X.com. I'm at Jason. And we'll see. Oh, yeah. and click these QR codes to sign up for YouTube and Spotify, YouTube and Spotify, and click this QR code down here, maybe to email openclaw at launch.co. 1025k investments, 1025k investments. Let's get at it, folks. Let's change the world. Openclaw is going to change everything. It's changed everything already, I think. It's my personal belief. All right. See you next time. Bye-bye.