How agents will change banking forever | E2260

22:33Now, I'm not saying Saks is wrong or I'm right. I just think the American people should have their guard up. They should assume the worst. Why? Because they got to hit rent, because they got to, you know, get groceries, because they have bills to pay. Assume the worst and then be delighted if your job playing the violin, you know, at a cafe because everything, because there's no jobs, becomes a reality. Let's hope that this becomes the Star Trek version. It could. That's a, there's a third of a chance of that, a third of chance of massive job loss, and a third of something in between. But a lot of good questions coming in.

23:10I think this is a very emotional issue. And our Noti gang, these are the people who have notifications turned on on YouTube. They get an alert on their phone. Hey, Jake, Al, and Alex are talking. Here's the topic. And then they click the link and they come into the chat room. They watch us live Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, about 12 Texas time, 12 p.m. Texas time, 10 a.m. Pacific time, 1 p.m. East Coast time. What questions do our Notis have for us?

23:34Jason Calacanis:So Nyal Roche says, Why is so negative on OpenClaw adoption in Europe? Don't forget OpenClaw was started by a European. Fair point, Jason. You now must defend your anti-French agitation. I'm just talking about how delightful the lifestyle is in Europe and how it's turned into a retirement community slash Epcot center. You know, anybody who is in Europe and who wants to build a great company is probably looking at going to another region because you need to have a bunch of people working for you hardcore. Doesn't mean it can't be done. Obviously, the Scandinavians in Berlin stand out as places where interesting things are happening.

24:12But I think we all can call it what it is. Europe's a retirement community, full stop.

24:17Jason Calacanis:I wonder about that because we're seeing you and I have had this conversation every three months for several years now. But I keep my eyes open. And in scale, the UK-based Neocloud just raised$2 billion. dollars. The UK government just rolled out, they rolled out a 50 million pound fund, which I made fun of. Then they rolled out a 500 million pound fund. Okay. A little bit of progress. Yeah. The fact that the government's doing that tells you everything. Well, they have less large companies. So I think using, actually Jason, I think using public funds to build a sovereign compute is a good idea.

24:49You know, most people would say that's socialism or it's putting your thumb on the free market and you really want more entrepreneurs battling it out and the government having nothing to do with that. Typically, when the government intervenes like that, it's because the private sector is not getting it done. But we'll put that aside. You know, the state of Europe and, you know, having a couple of, you know, unicorns here or there. Yeah, sure. It just feels to me like with the education level and the resources, they greatly underperform where they should be at. They should be producing much more.

25:24And they have work to do in terms of the taxation there on startups, on investors. If you put up too many roadblocks for founders in terms of hiring and at-will employment, and you put up too high taxes, then people will invest less and they'll move to other places. Europeans have a very unique ability to live in Dubai. Insert. Yeah. Okay. Bombs are going off. But they can move to Singapore, Dubai, and other places and pay no taxes or pay under 10 % taxes. Any logical investor in Europe faced with 50%, 60%, 70 % taxes will get out of Dodge. And that's what they've done.

26:06Jason Calacanis:We had a couple of questions about AI-driven job loss. Jason, before we jump into the Jason productivity hack, I'm just curious what your advice is for people out there who are concerned. We talked about, you know, AI won't take your job. People using AI will take your job. I think the agentic world has shown that to be different. So if you're a normie, what's the best way to have armor on your body to keep your job secure, short version? If you're working in corporate America, being the person who knows how to manage, being a maestro who manages AI is the key person. If you're in any other field, moving up the stack to things that a robot can't do and outrunning the robot is the best piece of advice.

26:45So what can a robot do? It can deliver a burrito and it can drive full self-driving. It's going to be a decade-long deployment of those technologies. So what's the next thing up from there? Being a carpenter, being a handyman, being a plumber, being an electrician. And if you look at that generation tool belt, if you were Cousin Sal, who is not a nine-to-fiver and loves his Uber, DoorDash, Winolo, Dra, you know, on-demand economy, you might need to buckle down and say, you know what? I'm going to learn a trade. I'm going to take out YouTube. I'm going to take out chat GPT. I'm going to learn how to be a carpenter.

27:24I'm going to learn how to build a fence because the robot ain't building no fence. I can tell you, I just built a fence. It cost me like six grand to build a tiny little fence. It was a two day job. You know, do you know what handymen who can build a fence get paid? It's like,

27:36Jason Calacanis:yes, a hundred bucks an hour. I I've done fencing. I, yes, I paid a lot of Uber driving gets paid? 30 bucks an hour, you know, in a city or a door dash or 20 bucks, 30 bucks. Sometimes they hit it, make 40 bucks on the weekend. It's easier than ever to build a great new product and launching a startup, even as a solopreneur is getting easier and easier. But as my experienced founders already know, there's a lot more to starting a company than just putting up a website or even building a product. If you're serious about going into business, you need a Delaware or a C-Corp. That's going to give you a serious leg up on your competition.

28:11And you can be taken seriously by investors. That's where Northwest Registered Agent comes in. Just a few clicks, they're going to give you the perfect start to your new enterprise. A real identity, a domain, a custom website, a business email, all the public filings done, and even a phone number. And you'll complete this process in under 10 minutes. Plus, you're going to get all sorts of free tools and resources from step-to-step guides, compliance reminders, and an online account that's going to keep everything organized, even as your business grows. So get all the advantages of a Delaware C Corp, regardless of where in the U.S.

28:46you're operating out of. NorthwestRegisteredAgent.com slash twist. You can just build a fence and that's not going away. And that's a hundred bucks an hour, 75 bucks an hour. So you're going to have to outrun the outrun the robot the robot will build defense in five years seven years then you're going to need to learn how to make the beautiful desk and carve it that the robot can't and then in 10 years forget it it's over anyway you'll have your own robot and then you'll just be managing

29:15Jason Calacanis:robots i'm just gonna i'm gonna be on the moon in 10 years so don't call me it's not my problem uh jason one thing that you do is a lot you do a lot of stuff you keep us all on our toes here And I was curious if you could drop some gems on us of knowledge about how you are productive. Oh, I have a productivity hack. Okay. This is a really easy one. You know, I work with my Athena assistant on this. I call it super distribution. Okay. There's a ton of platforms out there. When you have a great piece of content for your company, for yourself, what people do is they're like, oh, I had a great piece of content.

29:48What you need to do is take that piece of content and then go super distributed. What does it mean to super distribute it? It means you post it two or three times in two or three different versions across all platforms. Yes. So if you have an EA like I do from Athena, I will tell them, hey, take this, put it onto my Twitter, put it onto my, you know, put it in the drafts maybe, put it onto LinkedIn, put it in all these different places. Hey, we have these different accounts. and go find me other pieces of content that people in my network, like say in my case, portfolio company founders are doing and give me a list of that so I can engage them.

30:24This social media 101 work, if you were to hire a social media person would be again, 50 bucks an hour, 75 bucks an hour for a freelancer, but you can do it with an Athena assistant. If you want to get into these hacks, just go to athena.com slash jcal and you will get$2 ,000 off your Athena assistant. They're also learning how to use, I don't want to tip anybody's cards here, but they know how to use agents at Athena. So Athena plus agents, plus your agent, put them all in the same Slack instance, and you will get incredibly productive. You have a human in the loop with your Athena assistant who can make phone calls.

31:00You'll have your agent who is OpenClaw or your Google agent, your Microsoft launched agents, your Notion agent, your Slack agent. There's all kinds of different agents out there that you can use multiple ones, but having a human in a loop is going to make you even more productive.

31:19Jason Calacanis:Can I tell you my, uh, my, my recent Athena brainwave? Oh, go ahead. All right. So right now we have a nanny, which is, uh, given what we pay, uh, top of market because we care about our children. Uh, the moment, the moment we don't have a nanny, I'm hiring an assistant. And I was like, we can just get an assistant. assistant because because it's so much cheaper than any and it's gonna be so helpful because we have so many things now going on constantly i can't wait this is my my weekend juggling children diapers chaos you know also it's a it's a luxury item i'll give you that but it's also a productivity hack for mom here's another one i like a certain bakery in uh the austin area it's called abby Jane.

32:03They make incredible bread. They use the whole grains, artisanal grains. So it's just, this is literally the best bakery in Texas and one of the 10 best in the country. Problem is they're open Thursday to Sunday and they sell out and they don't deliver. They don't need to, the best, right? But they do take orders and they do open at 8am. Athena assistant calls at 7.59, 8 a.m. There it is, Abby Jane. Oh, man. These are their bagels getting ready to go. I mean, it's just unbelievable. The chocolate croissant is like literally from France. So, you know, I was talking to the woman there and I was like, hey, you know, you should open up like other days of the week.

32:42Maybe you should get an investor, you know, hint in. She's not interested. She's got her thing. It's dialed in. And I was like, why aren't you on Uber Eats? She's like, I don't want to be on Uber Eats. I sell out. Okay, great. Fair enough. Uber has a courier service. The courier service is like 10 bucks. but you have to coordinate so what do we do my athena assistant looks at their menu at 7 a.m finds out what's new on the menu because they change it every week sends me it with a number list i say four of these two of these three of these i would forget to do this then he puts the order and puts it on the credit card tells them he's coming to pick it up tells them the name of the uber driver who's coming to pick it up this is for jason the person picking up is joe they pick it up then they call the ranch tell the ranch hey this person's coming here's the link to the uber courier boom all done all done every week but you know there's like 10 steps to this it's not going to be done by an agent anytime soon but it is done by my theme assistant my girls eat healthy we stopped ordering schlocky croissant from heb schlocky bread and now they have chef's kiss the best in texas little hack there for you there's another product i got it's a double productivity hack.

33:54People don't know about the courier service.

33:56Jason Calacanis:Do you know about the courier service? I read about it and then it had fallen immediately out of the back of my head. Just instant forgetting. The best thing that you want to get for your wife or your family, it's not available on DoorDash or Uber Eats, but they are available for pickup. So there you have it, folks. All right. Let's do some demos. Let's do some stuff in action. All right. So first up, I'm going to bring up Suresh Ramamurthy. He's from NetX. Hey, man. Suresh is going to show us moving money and interacting with bank accounts securely using OpenClaw and a skill from his company, NetX.

34:31Jason Calacanis:So Suresh, talk us through it and let us enjoy. Hi, Alex. Hi, Jason. I hope you guys can hear me. Yes, sir. So we have a full stack for banks and we decided that we will connect it to OpenClaw. And we built a cryptographic security for that so that obviously I can't let OpenClaw run away with my money. So we integrated right into a bank mobile app. So whatever OpenClaw does, finally I approve it from my bank app. And my bank runs on a blockchain. You were one of the lunatics brave enough to give OpenClaw access to your bank. Yes. Which means you gave it your password in two-factor. No. And authenticated it?

35:17Or you used a password manager? Explain that step in plain English. I built a banking platform myself. I have 20 plus banks using my platform. And I built a special open banking API so agents can access read-only as well as set up transactions that I, as a user, can use my secure banking app, which has my private keys, ECDSA keys, to approve it. Got it. So what's the name of your private company that does this, the platform? NetXT. N-E-T-X-T. This existed pre-OpenClaw because today is AO44. It's been 44 days since we started talking about OpenClaw here on the program. Of course. Yes. And so - I built it to handle 100 billion machine IDs about six years ago.

36:06I'm ex-Google. I've always been thinking about machine to machine commerce. So when I built this ledger, I planned for 100 billion machine IDs, which seems kind of small right now. Okay, so NetXD existed before OpenClaw, and it's a banking ledger. Now OpenClaw users can open an account on NextXD. No, no, on a bank that supports NetXD platform. Ah, got it. Then the queries go from your OpenClaw to XD, correct? Yes. Got it, got it. So that will only allow it read-only access. But if I want to pay somebody like, you know, I often will get, you know, here's the gardener, here's the pool cleaner, you know, here's the garbage service, whatever it happens to be.

36:54Here's the, you know, septic tank. You know, you got a ranch, you probably have 20 different vendors to maintain a ranch. I could have when their email comes in with their bill, sometimes they just send an email with a document assigned to it. I could have my OpenClaw file that, queue up the payment through Zelle or whatever, and then not let my OpenClaw pay it, but queue it up for me to then approve it? Yes, it'll pop up in your bank mobile app for approval, and your bank mobile app has a secret element with a private key, which approves it. What the bank sees is a signed transaction from you, Jason, to the bank, which is the only thing they would approve, which is the only thing they would accept.

37:35I mean, this is, Alex, the productivity we need. This is the power of an open source. You would not have been able to do this if this wasn't open source, right? You would have had to do all this manually. And the fact that there's an open source agent makes it so easy, right? We have to build so many other plugins. We first did it on Cloud a year and a half ago. We did it. We tried to build all the intention discovery ourselves. Then we stopped and said, I know where the elements are going. Instead, we built agentic memory because you may want to pay your bills in a certain way. And you want the memory to remember, hey, I want to pay this only on the last day of the due date.

38:10This one I want to pay early so that he doesn't stop me from, doesn't supply. So you can have your own long-term memory on how to do things. And we have a memory that goes along with this as well.

38:23Jason Calacanis:Suresh, can you show us how it works? Sure. I just open class got a little jealous of bricks and rhymes. Every time I ask you to list capabilities, it says how much better it is. So I'm going to ask three questions at the same time. I'm going to say, check my bank balances, check my memory for any rules I have to optimize my savings and checking, and check, have I paid the light edge invoice, which is what Jason was asking, kind of. So now that I've sent that message through Telegram to OpenClaw, I'm also keeping my mobile app handy. As you can see, I have two controls, Jason. One to control OpenClaw anyway.

38:56You can see the request coming. Okay, so we see that happening on the right side. you've got 3 ,700 bucks in your checking. You got almost 10K in your savings. You're doing okay, kid. You've, oh no, wait, that's 9 million. You've almost got 10 million in the bank. It's a startup that just got a series A. Let's think of it that way. It's a hypothetical startup. Okay. So now it says, Hey, you're off by$1 ,300 on your checking because you plan to keep 5 ,000 there for optimization. So I'm going to say, go ahead, do it, optimize it, move the money. This is something everybody's got to deal with because you might, if you dip below a certain amount the banks the scumbags at the banks may give you a fee for going under 5 000.

39:36yes i mean why do they do that like this should be something they do automatically you can see that it's moving 1300 dollars to optimize i choose it i approve it with my private key which is linked to my biometrics and only then the bank knows it will process the transaction you have given it optimization rules in memory keep a 5 000 buffer in checking sweep excess into savings. We all want that. Weekly auto transfer,$100 to savings. Let's say if you were on the savings tip, windfall capture, 50 % of large inflows, savings buckets, emergency 50, investments 30, yada, yada. Monthly goal, 20 % income save, triggers, paycheck, large inflows, end of the month, boom.

40:14So this is something everybody has. You might say, hey, every month, I want to move anything above this amount in savings into a 529 for my kids into my 401k. but my 401k could only accept, Alex, this amount. So this is where these things can get super powerful. Then, you know what I really want? I wanted to go find better deals from other banks for my savings or for my deposits, right? You put a deposit into Robinhood, you get like some bonus or something. So I love the idea of it checking my deals with my bank against other best offers. and then I would give it permission to queue up an email in my drafts folders to send to my bankers because this is what I have operations people like Heidi who does operations for me.

41:05Shout out to Heidi. Like I'm like are we getting the best deal here and like I realized I had like a million dollars in some accounts not getting interest. I'm like why aren't these an interest account? Oh we're supposed to have an interest account. I'm like what's the interest rate? It's like oh four three percent. I'm like well why don't we have five percent? Other places have five percent. Okay we We got it up to 4.25. I'm like, you realize that's like$45 ,000 a year. Over three years, we've left 150K. Like, why do I have accountants and all this operations people if we can't get this right?

41:31It's like, oh, it's tedious. It's a chore. People forget. That's the key to OpenClaw is humans forget. Humans are fallible, especially when it comes to chores. I forget to do my chores. You think the dishwasher's clean here? I may have forgot to put stuff in the dishwasher. I may have forgot to bring my dry cleaning to the dry cleaner.

41:48Jason Calacanis:That's where AI shines, isn't it? Are you going to take any of the underlying NetXD tech that was used and open source it or make it available for other folks to play with and tinker? We're going to make XT control available to anybody using OpenClaw. That is the one that is right on the right-hand side. That is the XT control app, which you can use to control XT so that it doesn't use to control OpenClaw. The banking platform, we are opening one bank's going to announce in three months they're going to have an open banking API that'll connect to any AI, not only OpenClaw, cloud, whatever it is, at which point anybody can open an account at that back and connect all these things on their own.

42:21Jason Calacanis:All right. Well done. NetXD.com. Suresh, thank you so much for your time. And I really appreciate it. That was freaking awesome. Next up, we're going to talk to the guy behind PhoneClaw. This is Rohan Arun. It's an OpenClaw extension, if you will, that allows Asians to operate smartphones like humans, which is incredibly cool. And he's going to show us a demo of multi-step phone automation, essentially doing some video work and posting it to multiple phones at once. And, uh, Rohan, are you going to show us with the glasses on or the glasses off? I want to show you with the glasses on because we've been focusing on wearables and mobile devices.

42:52So I think that'll be exciting. Yeah.

42:54Jason Calacanis:All right. So we're going to do this from your first person view through your Android AR glasses, right? Yes. Yeah. That was just launched, but we're focusing on mobile and AR devices. All right, let's do it. Uh, the window on the left-hand side of the screen is our app. You can go to get supers.com to try it right now. You can essentially connect Android devices. You can also connect a Mac, and you can connect multiple different agents. And you can see that I've connected three different Android devices here in parallel that I'll automate in a second. On top of it, we have a real-time assistant.

43:25Pete Steinberger said that OpenClaw is not intended for non-technical people. So we've been trying to approach it from the angle of mobile devices and wearables. And so our assistant allows you to basically, you can connect it in maybe 30 seconds. You can start automating entirely with voice. So what's happening with your hands there? I see when you show your hand in front of the glasses, it's putting some notes on each finger and it's, you know, it understands what each, what your thumb is and your index finger, et cetera. What's the point of all that? Is that just it? Yeah, good question. So basically, I suspect the reason Amazon Alexa and other devices, AI devices previously failed is because voice alone doesn't solve the problem.

44:06Because it doesn't solve discovery and navigation. So what I'm seeing here in my hand is actually all the different options that I have for voice commands. So we see prowers, browsers, we can automate the Android device, we can automate the chat interface. Those are buttons you can press with your hand. These are actually voice commands. So we're going to be automating four different Androids, and they're going to be posting to social, posting to Twitter. We can automate all your social apps and things like that. Okay, so you're a social media manager, and you're going to, with these four different phones, post to your Twitter, Instagram, whatever.

44:38Yes, correct. This is an exciting demo we've got ready to go here. He's going to tell his agent across three virtual phones what to do. So this is particularly important. We have an election coming up in 2026, and Putin and Xi, they need more phones, Alex, more phones and more social accounts to cause chaos in our elections in 2026. So here we're going to see how Putin's going to do this next version of election where Xi's going to do election interference here in the United States.

45:14Jason Calacanis:That's the worst pitch I've ever heard. Hey, hey, do you want to take down democracy? You're thinking it. Phone claw. You're thinking it. I'm just saying it out loud. Hey, Super, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you loud and clear. Can you go to device two and can you open Twitter and can you post to Twitter about this week's in startups podcast? Okay. So what it's doing is it's, it's, I just, it went to my second Android. It posted and it made a post, check out the latest episode of this week's in startups podcast, always insightful, inspiring. So you basically take an old Android phone and then you give your assistant, you know, the keys to that kingdom and let them rock and roll on apps and they can do things.

45:56Now, if I had my Mac mini, um, it does have native iPhone mirroring, so I can mirror my phone. Um, but I wonder if I have mirrored my phone, if my open claw could then take over my desktop and do things in my phone. So you can click things on your phone. So that's also one of the things we solved is we're using the Moondream API. We figured out how to solve this kind of computer use problem with really cheap, free models. So you can go to getsupers.com and connect your phone or a Mac, and you don't have to pay$200 a month, for example. And so there are other tools that allow you to kind of hack your way to this.

46:37We allow you to go directly to the phone. And the problem with automating certain things on the phone, that's screen sharing. iOS actually prevents you from automating certain things like calls and for security reasons. this is absolutely the future being able to use ar you really have two startups here one is using ar uh which is you know years in the future but then actually giving your you know open claw your assistant its own phone to do things because of the app ecosystem kind of interesting kind of compelling uh very cool and i'll look forward to see where you're taking this next all right let's keep moving wrong thank you so much appreciate it man but i was joking about the putin stuff But if you were actually trying to do research on apps, let's say, being able to have OpenClaw or another agenting technology provision 10 different Android phones, download the apps, install them, play with them, authenticate with them, like even just for research as a firm to understand the changes happening, competitive intelligence.

47:44I mean, I can see a lot of interesting use cases here. I never thought, what if the agents had unlimited access to app stores and apps? It's a pretty interesting idea.

47:53Jason Calacanis:Go back to the top of the show. Andre Carpathy's idea of auto research and letting LLMs train themselves. Now take that, build an app, put it on your dummy device, use PhoneClaw to let the agents interact with it, run tests. I mean, you could build a self-reinforcing mobile development loop here with just a couple of pieces kind of duct taped together. And I wonder if that's going to do away with certain testing, because then you don't need to have a human in the loop at all. You can just run it autonomously. It'll certainly accelerate tests, right? So if you were Calm.com and you wanted to test different aspects of the app, you need to have humans testing it.

48:30But you might also want to test responsiveness and speed and other things. And, yeah, you could create a test flight and just say, go, here's your metric. And that was the key to Andrew's innovation this weekend is you need to have a metric that the recursive loop can key off of. So you'd have to really set a north star. I want the app to be faster. I want the app to be, gosh, I don't know, less buggy. I want the app to work better. Like if you said, I want it to work better on iPhone 12s and earlier. so make me a light version of the app that detects you're on an iphone 12 and just downgrades everything to make it as fast as an iphone 17 like that kind of benchmarking and instruction would work but if you don't have a good benchmark you don't have a north star it's not going to work so that's going to go i think that's a key to the innovation all right

49:22Jason Calacanis:we have one last demo for us and that is from someone that you know jason we're going to talk to Eugene Stuckless of Air Inc. Air is a founder UX Japan company. You met him in Tokyo and he's going to show us an AI native testing tool that helps agents test. It's a little complicated. We spent a lot of time talking about it before the show. So Eugene, maybe we should just start with explain this to Jason. Why don't I show you? Even better, much better. So Air Inc. is an AI native automation platform. Our first product is AirTests. It's using agents to test websites, right? So you provide a URL.

50:02And then with this URL, about 15 minutes later, you get a link. And this link is in, or you get an email. And this email is a deep, deep dive into your website, analyzing it from 10 different criteria, SEO, performance, trust, UX friction, security, right? This happens in about 15, 20 minutes. This is a free report. This is what it looks like when you go to the site, you see, and you drill down the evidence about what went wrong, how you fall short. This is free, right? So you pay 20 bucks to buy 150 credits, and then you can run this report maybe four or five more times. What's pretty cool about this is that you see there's, it's very, very in-depth.

50:45You'll see you drill down into one specific area, let's say SEO. This particular founder has been focused on SEO. So he has put a lot of effort in, and you can see that this test report has tracked his changes over time, translates into business impact that he can understand. This is AI testing top to bottom, right? So this generating of a site readiness report is one workflow we have, right? So agents run workflows. So I would like to show you what it looks like to run and train agents running workflows. This is how I deal with the workload that I have around agent testing. I have built a proprietary piece of software that self-trains at maybe four or five different levels.

51:39and you see here a dashboard that tracks a particular workflow and its evolution over time, how many tokens it reduced each loop, what kind of change was made to allow for that to happen. You could see as well a graph that shows me the workflow distribution of which models got which tasks within that workflow and how we learned how to feather more expensive tasks to the expensive models and the cheap stuff to the cheap ones. And importantly, you'll see here on the governance page, this is my AI asking me for permission to evolve for high risk that are, let's say, adding a new tool. It asks me if it can evolve because that's a very important thing, adding a new tool, right?

52:32Okay. And then one more, I think you'll like this one, Jason. So this is the workflow view. on this workflow view you see the phases broken down my favorite part is that it has a blast radius so if you have yes so if you consider when you get signal from the outside world that goes into your open claw that agent is compromised prompt injection is impossible to prevent so instead of focusing on trying to let's say secure the whole system or secure on prompt injection you focus on isolating the blast radius of that bad actor. So you see here in this workflow, it flagged that this phase is potential for bad actors.

53:18So it's flagging it to me, say, hey, maybe this should have less tools. Hey, maybe this agent should not have the ability to do this thing because it's getting signal from an outside source. So this is what it looks like to build internal tooling, to manage and train agents to improve efficiency for the workloads that they provide to the customer. Okay. So just to separate this out and explain to the audience, you are building a startup that helps people optimize their websites. You have to build tools for those website owners, and those tools need to get better over time. So you built agents to make each tool get better and be recursive.

54:00So if one of those might be SEO advice. So when you run the SEO advice tool, you want to make sure that it doesn't cause damage and that it is actually getting better and that you're controlling the costs. Right. So there's a couple of cool things that are feathered in here. The top of the news, the guy said his recursive loop, this is applying this at scale. So that recursive loop is happening across many, many agents that you see in here. Not only agents, the workflows, the tools they have, it's multi-layer, right? So my job is more like helping it learn how to run my business. That's the point at which this is now peak efficiency.

54:42I no longer have a job. Crazy. Yeah. So it's being like a product manager, but it's got to go get intelligence from the open web. So you're using some protocol to get better at seo so you have to make sure that it's not garbage in garbage out so how do you do that step that the lmlm agent you have sure specifically for seo or maybe for i don't know if you have like call to actions on the website or really good question so how do you how do you ground data in reality uh there's two ways one uh deep research is really really effective to allow the AI to model its research in a way that it can understand so that it understands the context better.

55:29It's a better data model, easier to talk to. The focus that I was going for, the reason why I put all this engineering effort into get this self-training is because my mind has been blown since OpenClaw dropped. Like you, I've been listening to jazz nonstop. I can't do anything else because my mind is so expansive. So this codex that I invented to allow myself to encode this learning. This is called Coltrane. Because it's the only thing I can use to express myself as he can. Because the way the agents learn, the way I can talk to the system, it learns so fast. So the way it models domains, it learns better how to build something in its language rather than relying on me to do it.

56:09It's very interesting. So I'm buying this infrastructure to dominate the QA testing market and maybe something else later on.

56:18Jason Calacanis:Oh, I was just thinking about taking the idea of self-improving agents that have a stricter kind of permission structure around them so they're safer to other areas, Eugene. So if you could just throw some ideas out, like what are the top four or five areas where you think this is going to go next? I think all the founders would like to know where agents are going to get better faster. So I think this is something, there's two things. One, inference efficiency. So LM's magic thing is they can do inference really well, right? So the well-trained frontier models, they have the ability to reason through deep stuff and come with very good insights.

56:53But we are burning 95, maybe 98 % of our tokens on stuff that doesn't require reasoning. So what we'll find is that people will start to encode their knowledge about how to be more efficient with these things. What's cool about my system, the way it's coded is that if someone makes a contribution to an agent on my system, if that agent is invoked elsewhere on another customer's, let's say, platform, they get attribution for that because they participated in the encoding of their knowledge into the AI. Right. So it creates attribution. It allows for you to pay somebody for knowledge work as they transfer it into the AI.

57:37right?

57:38Jason Calacanis:I see. Well, it's super cool, man. And if people want to learn more, Air Inc, but it's spelled E-I-R. Correct. E-I-R.I-N-C. All right. We appreciate it. Thanks, Jim. All right. Well done. And Alex, as you know, all jobs are being replaced with AI. There'll be no more employment. I've said this over and over again. That being said, we have three open job requests. So take that for what it's worth. We're doing pretty well over here and we're adding headcount. If you want to be the community manager and you love founders and you love Discord and X communities and Slack and Circle and all these different platforms, but most of all, you love founders, you love angel investors, you love venture capitalists and tech enthusiasts, you want to build that community and help us figure out, hey, of these millions of users who are the top one or 2 % who engage with the content the most, email us what you're good at and what you've done.

58:36Community at launch.co. Community at launch.co. Just tell us. We don't care about your resume. We do care about your experience, but tell us what you've done in plain English. Just email us. Community at launch.co. We're also hiring two researchers. Researchers at our venture firm are looking for, they're hunting for great companies to invest in or have on the podcast. That's one job function. Then they're writing coverage of those companies. That's another job function. And then eventually after they're a researcher, they become an analyst and they get to get on the phone and maybe do some calls.

59:13So there's two different aspects to this job. One is hunting for companies and finding them out there. And then two is sorting through the ones we already have, writing coverage. And this is the onboarding. This is the year that will tell you if you're qualified to eventually get that seat at a venture capital firm. So instead of hiring venture capitalists from the existing pool of them, we said, let's make our own venture capitalists. Let's invest three, four, five years in professional development. Rung one on the ladder. Researchers at launch.co. The email, just tell us about yourself, your analytical ability, why you're passionate about this, what you think you bring to the table.

59:52Researchers at launch.co. We're hiring people out of school for that position. Entry level, 50, 60, 70 hours a week, seven days a week. You're gonna try to crush it and fight to get that job in venture capital. Finally, we have a producer role here at This Week in Startups. The shows are doing so well. We launched This Week in AI. We're gonna bring three other podcasts into the fold shortly. And we need a producer. producer at launch.co producer at launch.co if you have produced podcasts before and you have experience producer at launch.co this is not an out of school one like researchers at launch this is a we need you to have experience and bring something to the table we'll see you all next time on this week in startups bye-bye bye-bye