Immigration, The Trump Interview, Air Taxis in the Bay Area and the Future of Remote Work | E1971

0:00I wanted to see this air taxi thing maybe. Yes. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, if you've never been to a big city, you may not know this, but traffic is bad the world around, especially to and from the local airport. But there is a new plan from Archer. They're putting together a San Francisco air mobility network, and we have an image of the map they have planned here. Jason, talk us through these locations and why they matter. Well, I've always felt like having a Bay Area topography would be perfect for VTOLs. A much better way to commute across water is at 150 miles per hour. Can you imagine going from Napa to Palo Alto in 15 minutes?

0:38This is extraordinary. This Week in Startups is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. To redeem a$100 LinkedIn ad credit and launch your first campaign, go to linkedin.com slash thisweekinstartups. Fanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business. Fanta makes it easy for companies to get a sock to report fast. Twist listeners can get$1 ,000 off for a limited time at fanta.com slash twist. And lemon.io. hire pre-vetted remote developers get 15 off your first four weeks of developer time at lemon.io slash twist all right everybody welcome back to this week in startups i am your co-host jason calicanas i'm an angel investor early stage investor here in the silicon valley with my partner in crime alex wilhelm you probably know him from crunchbase and a crunch and his new newsletter cautiously optimistic dot news cautiously optimism dot FocciousOptimism.news.

1:42We'll get it. But I've been reading it. It's really good. Thanks. I own both those domains and I literally sat there staring at them and I wasn't sure what to do. Actually, now I want to go make sure I bought both of them now that I've said that. But I was really torn between the two. And I got a little mention there. So, big weekend. I was away for the weekend. How was your weekend? Yeah, it was fantastic. I mean, now that my kid can run around and do stuff, she's just so much more fun to take everywhere. So, you know, swim classes, trips to the park, out to see the in-laws, got out of the city for a little bit.

2:12I love a weekend, but I'm not going to lie. Given this weekend's news cycle, I was very excited to get back to the show and to give everyone a little taste. We are going to talk about tech leaders and the immigration debate, air taxis, and are they really about to become a reality in the Bay Area? And then the relatively bleak picture for Chinese venture capital today and how the Bay is thriving. But first, we're going to talk about a couple of short, fun things just because why not? It's Monday. why not spend it jason i had not heard of this club 33 and it turns out this is not a new club in new york city this is a more family friendly setup yeah club 33 i went to for the first time this is a uh private club inside of uh disney and so i tweeted about it you're allowed to tweet about you just can't take video from it so it's not like this is super cloak and dagger or something like that it's not skull and bones or anything um it's just a um fun place to go when you're in disneyland if you're by that uh blue bayou and pirates of the caribbean area there's like a little door and it says club 33 you press a button they can reach you it's quite charming and uh you get a four course lunch so i took the the kids and a friend of mine's a member and uh we had a nice four course lunch in a very civilized way if i may say to start the chaos that can occur when you go to an amusement park your oldest is how old 18 months so you're two you're three years away from this yeah she has never seen a disney movie but i take it from this entire setup that you are part of a disney family and we're not part of the uh princess industrial complex as much as we are part of the star wars marvel industrial complex like my daughters are crazy about x-men they love the new animated series and 97 really fun they love the star wars and yeah pixar and disney as well but i think they're kind of on the the superhero characters and star wars most on the club 33 point i understand that if you go to disneyland as a regular as a normie as i would do if i went for the weekend i'm getting an experience then you can pay a little bit more to like skip lines and so forth yes 33 is that like the the apex of insider status i think club 33 is in fact the apex i had a lot of people who d and was like how did you get in how did you get in it takes five to 10 years to get a membership to this thing a friend of mine's a member um they saw i was going to disney they were like hey let's spend the day at disney i'll take you to lunch so we went to lunch it was beautiful lunch i would say it's not like it's a michelin star fine dining experience but it's quite quite good and we had a wonderful meal it was a four course like two hour meal and in it's a beautiful room the really interesting story is that walt disney kind of created this because he had a lot of people coming to disneyland to become investors he was trying to raise money so he needed a way to impress them so he made a little club there near this like main street area would have these like french shops it's kind of like the french quarter kind of situation you know then they decided to make this a premium experience i think for celebrities studio it's kind of like celebrities and studio heads kind of situation i would say and um when they started it interestingly enough they did sponsorships So Disney needed money, I guess, to get the park going.

5:22And so Coca-Cola, Kodak, Monsanto, General Electric, a bunch of people. Sunkist were, I guess, sponsors of this. And Sunkist was Orange Grove. So Disneyland in California was all surrounded by Orange Groves originally. Walt Disney also has an apartment inside there that's not part of Club 33. So it was a way to kind of get business partners to have an elite experience. It's kind of like Soho House or The Battery or whatever private club you might experience. but um was this the first time i've ever done this kind of stuff i've done like a fast pass ticket before that's kind of the middle ground which i think it's like an extra hundy for tickets instead of paying 100 bucks to take you pay 200 i'm not sure exactly the price because it's been a while since i've been there uh but i did do a little embarrassed to say the oh come on just out with it well the vip tour uh and so what the v you basically i did it at i went on thursday to Universal and did the VIP tour there.

6:18It's about 500 bucks a ticket. So it's not crazy compared to the$125 ticket. But you get to go on the tour behind the scenes of Universal. So just to do Universal first. Sure. You do a little buffet lunch, which is more civilized. They charge your phones, all that kind of stuff. But then you go on a tour and the Universal tour through like the back lot is slightly different than the normal one. You get off of the trolley and you get to walk into the sound stages and see like the George Lopez show with a small group of maybe a dozen people. You get to go into the prop house and actually see the props and where they rent them to anybody.

6:52Anybody can rent props from Universal, apparently. And you get to walk on the streets. Whereas with the other trolley, you know, in gen pop, you can't get off and do stuff. So it's, I think it's worth it. And then you get unlimited fast pass type things. So the kids didn't have to wait online all that much. And that's the first time I've ever done that. But you know, I get like big speaking gigs now. so i can in my mind justified hey if i save time here instead of having to go two days i can do the same number of rides you could probably do the same number of rides in one day that you would do in three because it's basically when you go to these things in the summer 45 minutes wait maybe even an hour for a ride when you have this vip experience it's no wait per ride the longest we waited i think it was seven minutes and that was um this so going back to disney for 500 bucks an hour.

7:37There we go. I was waiting to get back to the hourly point. That's the big one. That's like four grand for the day or something. Plus, you still have to buy your ticket. So maybe rounds up to five. We had a group of eight people. So maybe divided by eight people, I guess it's not that much, but it's expensive. Let's put it that way. It's just not that expensive. That number does not blow my mind because Americans spend more on vacations than I expected, in terms of people going into debt to go on vacation. And if you were going to send me to Disney and you could say, Alex, there's two ways to go about this one you spend a thousand dollars you get sunburned you see nothing you wait in lines you have to pee the whole time or for 5k you can go and actually have fun i wouldn't go without paying the 5k like i mean that's just if it was 20 i would just not go at all and i would avoid but like it makes no sense five maybe it makes sense um i can totally see that i did not feel guilty about it at this point in my life because i'm 53 i already made my money i'm kind of like this is an easy use of proceeds to spend it but like 10 years ago i probably would have been like no i would be too scared to spend that kind of money on it so i enjoyed it and one of the nice things about it was there was like um they do fireworks it's really like a i mean i remember this from you know the past we would kind of try to get a good spot to watch the fireworks but man you know about eight o 'clock you got to line up for the 9 30 fireworks you're basically sitting there for 90 minutes trying to secure a spot so you waste 90 minutes on top of the hour so you can usually do like four or five rides a day my kids did a dozen rides they did each of the two times i want to point out rise of the resistance at disney okay is this incredible new ride now i'm not into the sequels as much as i am the prequels and the regular series but this rise of thing is what they call trackless where you know the car is not on railroad tracks there's something on the floor that moves around so you actually don't know which direction it's going and the scale of rise of the resistance is unbelievable you go into a room with 40 foot at at you know attack things you know those elephant looking things from the empire strikes back and they have a large number of characters dressed as the first order tons of stormtroopers and you really get immersed in this experience i was blown away i think rise of the resistance is the best ride i've ever best amusement park ride ever hands down by double it's incredible it is a wild experience and like you walk into as you're seeing here on the screen that deck where there are 50 stormtroopers now they're animatronics but the first order officers in front of them are real people they kind of give you a hard time so it's kind of like going to a haunted house you know kind of thing where they interact with you so the girls loved it then they have a millennium falcon a full millennium falcon in this disney uh star wars area that's new and you get to ride the millennium falco that's a different ride and in that one the two people in the front of the cockpit control left right up and down the two people in the middle control firing the left and right laser cannons and in the right you use like you're the navigators who put a tug thing on and you try to steal that coaxial whatever the coaxium oh yeah uh stuff that they had in the hand solo movie so everybody's interactive and you get a score my kids loved it it was great and they have star wars characters walking around you know we saw ray we saw chewbacca so i have to just give it a plus plus navigating the b2b maze can feel really tough, huh?

10:48You're trying to hit the mark with all those top-tier executives. You want them to pay attention to your enterprise product. But where can you find all those big fish, the whales, the ones who call the shots and make the buying decisions for corporations, for startups, and everybody in between? Well, here's where LinkedIn ads is going to solve that problem for you. And I've used this. It is one of my secret weapons. LinkedIn means business. business equals LinkedIn in people's minds. When you're on LinkedIn, you're in the business mindset. So you're going to really be thinking about business products and services.

11:20You're open to those opportunities. And LinkedIn recently passed a billion users. 180 million of those billion are senior executives, 18%. But hey, we all know about the 1%. 10 million C-suite executives, that's your CFO, CTO, CIO. These are the people who are always looking for a new product or service to make their organization run better, but they are on LinkedIn. That's why LinkedIn's ad platform delivers two to five times greater return on investment compared to other social media platforms. So easy to understand why this is because this is where all the business people are and they're in that business mindset.

11:55Super easy call to action. Make your B2B marketing everything it can be and get$100 credit on your next campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash thisweekinstartups to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash thisweekinstartups. No spaces, no dashes. Terms and conditions apply because they're giving you a hundy and then to go sit about the fireworks they have like a vip area so i walk in there and i saw tyler winklevi was there one of the winklevi twins randomly said i am sort of another silicon valley person so i guess that's kind of one of the great things about it is you get to sit in the center thing and they do the fireworks on that castle oh my lord alex fireworks above it and then they project onto the building every ip they have pixar toy story star war everything on that castle and uh yeah just a plus plus emily was our guide we had a great vip guide and they'll do like little things for you where hey you're on the ride can we get you like some pizza and some soda pop or you know cotton candy while you're on the ride i'll go get it i'll take your kids on the ride well if you don't want to be on this ride because i get motion sickness so some of the more intense ones i can only do one or two of them a day they took my uh my daughters on like the this great emily um who my kids fell in love with she did it like two or three times with them because they wanted to go on the same ride twice three times you know kids are so anyway long story short great experience you save up for it for sure it's special but you're right like americans going to if you're going to europe i mean even a coach ticket to europe i was looking at the business class tickets i was like i don't know this seems pretty expensive eight thousand dollars round trip to europe and then i look at the coach it was two or three thousand to go to europe in the summer i'm like two or three thousand dollars for a coach ticket you got a family of five you're 15 grand to sit and coach it's it's this is why my children will have to go to french american school versus going to france uh but i will just say that this underlines to me a couple of things one uh having money is great two um doing the the normal experience is a sucker's bet in a big country with a lot of demand for certain assets like yes room at an amusement park it's just so tough to be the bog standard person because it's not really aimed at you and uh the fact that you just actually made disney sound cool to me with the the star wars right and i think it's so cool that your daughters are are into it because you know when i was growing up star wars was much more of a a boy coded thing and it's really fun to see things that i love growing up now reach a larger audience because well one it means we'll see more star wars stuff and also there's a lot of joy there so i'm glad your kids loved that yeah it was a wonderful experience and it was great it was a little uncomfortable like i think i got I got noticed twice while I was cutting the line with the tour guide, so that was a little uncomfortable to me.

14:36There he goes! No, like twice, people were like, hey, Jake, I'm a big fan of the pods! I'm like, as I'm getting on the VIP and cutting the line. Thanks for watching. Thanks for the ad dollars I spent in here. Uncomfortable. Speaking of things that make you very, very uncomfortable, Jesse Calacanis, you put on what I consider to be the trader's garment, the full suit. The suit with a tie, you dressed up, and you interviewed the president. That dropped over the weekend. Thank you so much, by the way, for the heads up that that was coming. I love being in the know before you do things that I have to discuss.

15:10You didn't know. I did not know. Oh, that was all sarcasm. I had no idea until the next morning when people started texting me. Anyways, here we have Jason on the left. This is the Jason you get over a bottle of some fancy wine in a Napa wine cave. And then on the right, this is what you get if you are POTUS over on the All In Show. Now, for folks who don't know, Jason has several podcasts, one of which is This Week in Startups, which I think is my favorite. He's also on another one called The All In Show with a couple of his buddies, David Sachs, Chamath. Oh, Chamath, don't yell at me. Polly Hoppitya.

15:44Polly Hoppitya. Polly Hoppitya. Polly Hoppitya. Polly Hoppitya. I actually practiced that once for a different show, so I wouldn't screw it up. And then I forgot. My bad, Chamath. And then David Friedberg. they occasionally have guests on they had a number of the gop candidates throughout the earlier part of the campaign and now they had trump on this of course came in the wake of sacks and chamath hosting a eight-figure fundraiser for trump in san francisco yeah and got them on the pod so lots to talk about here i want to focus on immigration but first take us behind the scenes how did this come together because i think probably folks out there like myself were uh surprised that this happened sure i mean to have a former president on the pod and let's be candid looking like the next president as well uh trigger warning for those people who aren't fans of trump so we've had uh i think five presidential candidates on uh we had dean preston on um and i did like this 15 minutes with dean dang trying to support an alternative democrat who wasn't uh 81 years old and possibly in cognitive decline we had chris christie on he was great he's a moderate republican we had rfk on who's an independent left-leaning i guess yeah you got one of those something for everybody oh yeah exactly that's why i think maybe moderate independent we didn't have nikki haley on she declined the inner she declined the invite and uh we had vivek on we were the first people to have a vague on so we kind of have had everybody except Biden and Trump and Nikki Hill.

17:14And so my guys are really into politics. I am not, as everybody knows, into politics all that much. I'm more of a tech and entrepreneurship guy, innovation guy. Anyway, long story short, two of my co-hosts are really, really, really into politics. They have hosted multiple fundraisers. I think Sachs did fundraisers for RFK and Chamath participated in that. They did Dean Preston. They did a fundraiser for him. They did Trump and they did DeSantis. So they've been, like many business people, placing multiple bets and building relationships with people. It's kind of how our system works. So they told me, hey, Trump wants to be on the pod.

17:49They'd asked him, come on the pod. Now, important for people to know, as a former journalist, I know how to ask questions. And I know how to interview people after 2 ,000 of these interviews here. I've been on air for a while. It's not my show. It's our show, right? It's for participants. So I get roughly 25 % of the time on the show, just mathematically. And so I had the opportunity to participate in this. And I was like, you know, he's not my preferred candidate, but I think I can ask a couple of meaningful questions here. So I made a list of like maybe six questions I wanted to ask him. I wanted to keep it civil just as an interview technique.

18:23If you come hard at him, he just insults you, gets into a name calling thing, tells you what you're doing. And then the interview shuts down, right? We've seen countless interviews like this where an adversarial person just starts hitting them really hard. Meet the press style interview. I saw one recently as I was preparing for this interview. and you don't get anything out of them. So my technique is always get the person in conversation, get them warmed up, and then maybe follow up questions, try to get them to give something up. So I went for abortion. My shortlist was abortion, January 6, deficit spending, immigration, and I did want to talk about COVID-19 and his role in that, and then Fauci and the gain of function stuff that's been coming out since in these congressional hearings.

19:05So anyway, I had those five or six things I wanted to get to. I was able to get to maybe I think I got to four out of my six. And I started with the easier ones first, although people were like, oh, my God, you derailed the conversation, went right to abortion. And I'm like, I think that's going to be the deciding issue. Putting aside abortion, which I went into, I did want to get him to talk about closing the board now and immigration versus recruitment as a tech person, as a capitalist. I'm with the 70 or 80 percent of people that think the border. I think it's 80 % of Americans think the border should be orderly, shut down, whatever, and that people should come into the country in an orderly fashion and it should be fair and, you know, it shouldn't just be random who gets to run across the border.

19:48But more important to me is H-1B visas and recruiting the best and brightest to come to America. Listen, a strong sales team can make all the difference for a B2B startup. But if you're going to hire sharks, you need to let them hunt and you can't slow them down with compliance hurdles like SOC 2. What is SOC 2? Well, any company that stores customer data in the cloud needs to be SOC 2 compliant. If you don't have your SOC 2 tight, your sales team can't close major deals. It's that simple. But thankfully, Vanta makes it really easy to get and renew your SOC 2 compliance. On average, Vanta customers are compliant in just two to four weeks.

20:23Without Vanta, it takes three to five months. Vanta can save you hundreds of hours of work and up to 85 % on compliance costs. and Vanta does more than just SOC 2. They also automate up to 90 % compliance for GDPR, HIPAA, and more. So here's your call to action. Stop slowing your sales team down and use Vanta. Get$1 ,000 off at vanta.com slash twist. That's vanta.com slash twist for$1 ,000 off your SOC 2. And so I pushed him on that. I think we might have a clip of it here. We do have a clip, and we're going to play the Trump response, but I'm going to go ahead and just paraphrase the Jason question because I think this actually does lean into what you said about asking questions in a more conversational format versus being adversarial.

21:01Both interview styles work out well. In this case, Jason did get something very interesting that got a lot of coverage. So here's the question, Mr. President, we need high skilled workers in this country. We need to recruit the best and brightest. Every time we get someone that's a loss for our adversaries and our competitors, it's a gain for us. But I've never heard you talk about this. Can you please promise us you will give us more ability to import the best and brightest around the world to America? And then here is Trump. I do promise, but I happen to agree. That's why I promise. Otherwise, I wouldn't promise.

21:31Let me just tell you that it's so sad when we lose people from Harvard, MIT, from the greatest schools and lesser schools that are phenomenal schools also. And what I wanted to do, and I would have done this, but then we had to solve the COVID problem because that came in and, you know, sort of dominated for a little while, as you perhaps know. But what I want to do and what I will do is you graduate from a college. I think you should get automatically as part of your diploma, a green card to be able to stay in this country. And that includes junior colleges too. Anybody graduates from a college, you go in there for two years or four years.

22:06If you graduate or you get a doctorate degree from a college, you should be able to stay in this country. All right. So now, very exciting bit of commentary there from President Trump. I do promise. I happen to agree. That's why I promise. I think you should automatically as part of your diploma, get a green card, includes junior colleges, anybody graduates from a college, you go in there for two or four years, you should be able to stay in this country. Then, and this is why getting people to talk matters, his campaign, Jason, had a bit of a follow up to this. Oh, yes, they did. You like the question and how I did it?

22:37Well, the question that you did was a way to get him, I'm going to be impolite. I think you can lead Trump where you want him to go. I think you can offer him a bit of a leash and he'll kind of follow because he knows what you want to hear because he is a very effective talker. I mean, and politician. Sure. Yeah, to a lot of people. So clearly you guys were, we want more high school immigration. Trump grabbed that. He said, hell yeah, here's what you want to hear. Made headlines around the world from India to Politico and so forth. Then his campaign came back and said, President Trump has outlined the most aggressive vetting process in US history to exclude all communists, radical Islamists, Hamas supporters, America haters and public charges.

23:17he believes only after such vetting has taken place we ought to keep the most skilled graduates who can make significant contributions to america this would only apply to the most thoroughly vetted college graduates who would never undercut american wages or workers which in my read jason obviates his entire comment that he made to the show and i'm very curious if you think that's an unfair interpretation of that walk back as they say in politics i give this like a medium walkback, like a 20 % walkback, not a full walkback. I think he is committed to high skill workers and wants job creation and wants those entrepreneurs.

23:51I think his base, or let's say the most extreme portion of his base, believes that any job given to a foreigner is a job taken away from an American. Which is silly. Of course it is. But it's kind of like that South Park, they took our jobs kind of thing. If Americans feel that way because of what happened during Reagan through Clinton and the Bushes in between, where we gutted, gutted manufacturing in the United States and sent it to China. That was both parties, by the way. They just went full free trade globalization. So I understand why some Americans are like, I know what you're going to do.

24:26You're shipping my job somewhere where you pay people$3 an hour, not$35 an hour. Right. And so they really mistrust immigration. That's why I've been trying for years to reframe immigration or to reframe a portion of immigration as recruitment this is the nba we're trying to recruit people who when they come here will create a certain number of jobs and will create a certain amount of economic activity or at the very least pay a massive amount of tax because they make six figures a year by you know seven figures a year in other words like some hbs graduate from india who we send back or an mit graduate from the philippines or you know africa or the middle least and we send them back and they could have stayed here and made$500 ,000 a year working at Goldman Sachs or Google and we don't get that tax base.

25:14That's a mistake. And then we're also sending best and brightest back to their countries as opposed to having them here and being productive after we educated them. It makes no sense. So I do think it's a mini walk back to try to appease a group of people. But I do feel like that will, his commitment there, I think will last the test of time. I do think he's going to make progress on H-1B visas. The last time we had COVID when he was in office and then he shut everything down right he shut down all immigration and so this negotiation that's going back and forth where i think radical i wouldn't say radical let's just say the the polar opposites people all the way on the left want a free border like let's go let anybody in and then or very permissive let's say and then on the right they want the least permissive possible the majority of the country i'm going to say 80 percent not the 10 percent inside they want reasonable immigration so they're going to agree with what i proposed and what trump promised so i i do think eventually in this crazy political game the will of the people eventually wins they call this getting to denmark in political circles which is the representatives of the government start to match what the populace wants so when it comes to abortion basically 80 of the country wants reproductive rights and probably half of that 80 % wants some limit.

26:33And the limit seems to be 12 or 16 weeks. I know it's difficult for people to discuss these things, but that's basically what the majority of people want, according to a few surveys that have been done for many years. Cannabis regulation. Again, 70, 80 % of people want cannabis legal. And here we are. It's almost legal. Gambling, same thing, right? DraftKings, everything. Maybe we have 35 out of 50 states now allow some kind of wagering online. So we're kind of getting to Denmark on these things. And I think we'll get to Denmark on immigration. And, you know, I like the ability to ask him a question.

27:04I would have liked to get into January 6th. But literally, if you saw the end, I was volleying questions at him. Yeah. Like rapid fire, because they were basically giving us the wraps on, right? We have 50 minutes with him. We got to 50 minutes. I'm one 25 % of it, but I'm very proud of the interview. Now, other people are going to look at it and go, oh, Sax and Chamath didn't ask him any hard questions. Well, Sax obviously is team Trump now, right? He's hosted the big fundraiser for him. Shamat's obviously on his side as well. They're just going to have a conversation with him and they're rooting for him.

27:33Oh, yeah. And they're allowed to, I thought the Ukraine section was miserable. But I want to go back to the Trump thing because you said 20 % walk back. And to me, he was very clear. He said, I promise. But I happen to agree. That's why I promise. Otherwise, I wouldn't promise. And then his campaign set up not only a series of restrictions. They also said, quote, America haters, which I take to mean as anyone who's not in the tank for the current administration. And so to me, this sets up an ideological test versus a quality test and also only applied to the most thoroughly vetted graduates and also the most skilled graduates.

28:11Trump said two year universities, any four year university. So to me, this is saying everyone gets a green card to 10 people, which to me is more than 20 percent walkback. And I think this matters because Trump, during his administration, if you go back to October of 2020, the Department of Homeland Security put out an interim final rule that made it harder to hire foreign workers in the U.S. And his administration made changes to green cards to make it harder to unite families and is generally historically puts people who are extremely nativist into high parts of government. So to me, I agree with you on H-1B visas.

28:48I actually very much like what Trump said there. I agree with green cards for every two and four year school. Hell yes. Do you know how big this country is? Do you know how empty it is? Do you know how much room we have for awesome people to come here? We could easily have two billion people here. No problem. Democracy and capitalism together. Rock on. Yeah. I think Trump is selling your friends. Yeah. Trying to be very nice here. And me. Well, we'll talk about, I'm trying, I'm trying to deliberately to not, to not get into a table with you. Yeah. Because you and I have a lot of shows you together.

29:16I like to get along, but I mean, to me. they're getting um they're getting grin fucked and i don't know how to say that in a family friendly way they're getting snowed that's yeah thank you snowed i think they're getting i mean listen are do politicians tell their constituents what they want to hear i think that's right enough yes shockingly enough yes so what's great about having these discussions on the record in a forum like this is now we can go back to it and say hey here's what happened in the first trump term if there is another one and it's looking like that's a 60 70 likely case we'll see here's what he does in the second one.

29:47At least we'll have this moment in time where he says he's committed to it and we move the discussion forward. In terms of the vetting, everybody's 100 % of people are for vetting. We know that there are ISIS, Hamas, terrorists from around the world, bad actors, criminals who want to get into the United States or any other great country. Of course, we want to vet them. And then they're always spicy, I think, on the Trump side with what was the language he used, bad actors or America haters. They throw stuff like that in there to just rile up the base and to tweak the libs. That's just their standard trolling in my mind.

30:21When they say those kind of things, and it's just like the left, when they include woke politics and stuff and insert it, they're just trying to stir up the pot with their base to get them out to vote. I hate to be cynical about this, but every time you see the left or the right pander on these issues, I think they're just trying to get people out to vote. Like, oh my God, it's existential. And I don't think actually those issues are the existential ones. I think the budget's the existential one. Right now, startups have to do more with less. We all know that. And founders have to be smart with how they deploy capital.

30:53Investors are very tuned in to being capital efficient. So if you need great tech talent, but you don't have the time to interview dozens and dozens and dozens of candidates, you need to check out Lemon.io. They have thousands of on-demand developers to choose from. And these devs are vetted and their experience. And most of all, they're results oriented. They're going to get you the result you're looking for. They're not going to leave you hanging. And guess what? They charge competitive rates. Great developers can be incredibly hard to find. We all know that. And when you do find them, it can be hard to integrate them into your team.

31:26But Lemon.io will handle all of that for you. Startups choose Lemon.io because they only offer handpicked developers with three or more years of experience and strong portfolios. In fact, only 1 % of candidates who apply get in. And if something ever goes wrong, Lemon.io will get you a replacement ASAP. A couple of launch founders have worked with Lemon.io and they've had great experiences. So here's your call to action. Go to Lemon.io slash twist to find your perfect developer or tech team in 48 hours or less. And twist listeners get 15 % off their first four weeks. Stop burning money. Hire developers smarter.

32:04Visit Lemon.io slash twist. well neither candidate for the american office of president uh has anything like approaching a plan to reduce deficit spending or cut the deficit so if you care about that uh you're better luck voting for the local another question i asked him right yeah and tried to get somewhere with him he didn't i didn't get a i didn't get a great response there i'll be honest i did get a good response i think on the fauci thing move the ball forward there i just i feel like there is a a view amongst the technology people of which i'm counting myself this time yeah that we need more high school immigration and that the h1b visa system as it currently exists is too small too constrained and so forth yes the biden administration has done some good work to expand the list of uh degrees that fit under the f1 visa program and what's called ost but that's kind of a nuance to this conversation i'll just say that if trump can bend back his campaign and actually do what he said he would do it would be good for this nation and that's i think what we should say about that let me ask you candidly should i have done the interview or should i have sat it out in your mind as somebody who's not going to vote for Trump.

33:06I mean, so the way that I would answer that is... A lot of my people were like, how dare you give a platform to a fascist? How am I ever going to speak to you again, Jake? I thought about that because I had to go to my spouse and I think it was like Saturdays and they were like, by the way, you know my co-host? She's like, yes. I'm like, well, I interviewed Trump and she just looked at me like, how did that happen? I'm like, yeah, it's a long story. It's a long story. I would have done it. I think. Yeah, of course you do it. Because the chance to... Okay, here's my thought. If you go pluck a random, and I'm going to pick a category of person here, a random anti-Semite from the pool of that SMX online and platform them, a nobody, I think that's pretty much a mistake because you're not going to learn anything and all you're doing is giving them a place to espouse their terrible views.