Microsoft consumes Inflection and AI Demos from Suno, Cohere, Deepseek VL and more! | E1918

0:00Microsoft had a big announcement that they've gutted a company and stolen all their employees is inflection. Congratulations, I guess, to the team, but maybe not the investors. Congratulations to Satya and Nadella to running the table on everybody. I mean, my Lord, this guy is like, this is getting super cutthroat. Yeah, be careful out there. Yeah. Satya will take all your employees. Satya might steal your girl. He might steal your girl. Exactly. This Week in Startups is brought to you by 8Sleep. Good sleep is the ultimate game changer. Now you can add the pod cover to any mattress. Go to 8sleep.com slash twist to check out the pod cover and get$200 off the pod plus free shipping.

0:46Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website. Go to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code twist to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. and Gelt. It's time to take control over your taxes. Discover how Gelt can help you to manage and optimize both your personal and business taxes. Visit joingelt.com slash twist now. All right, everybody, welcome back to This Week in Startups. You know, we had so much news breaking in the world of AI that Sonny and I had a conversation about it. We said, you know what? We didn't do any demos this week because we had to talk about, God, so much going on.

1:26And then more news drops in the meantime. Yes. Microsoft had a big announcement that they've gutted a company and stolen all their employees. Inflection. So explain just briefly. We're going to do demos today, I promise, but we do need to address what happened here. And there's a lot of feelings, I guess, or debates about it. And so maybe you can level set and tell us. So inflection was this creation between Greylock and a bunch of folks from the DeepMind team, mainly one of the co-founders, Mustafa, co-founder of DeepMind, incredibly talented person who's built several iterations of AI. And when they came together, the promise of what they were doing, which was really awesome, and they raised a lot of money for this, was they had built a huge compute cluster.

2:15They were one of the largest purchasers of NVIDIA hardware last year, and they were claiming to create both a new chatbot and a brand new foundational model. So it was a direct competitor to OpenAI and being built from folks that come out of the same lineage, have the same experience. The team had raised, I think, upwards of$1.2 or$1.3 billion to compete. And everyone was excited to see what they were building, what they were launching, what we mean more competition in the ecosystem. And then we wake up yesterday and we find out that Microsoft has recruited the team away. there's a new CEO in inflection and we're all kind of scratching our heads uh and we also learned that there was some kind of relationship between Microsoft and inflection as well that was the other thing that kind of came together so I did see that they also had like um some number of investors in common including Bill Gates and some other folks so this and then Reid Hoffman and then Reid so LinkedIn to Microsoft and I believe Reid is still on the board of Microsoft and so they've gutted the company and this was microsoft's approach as well with open ai when there was a little bit of friction there they said oh you know what we'll just take the open ai team so this is like a very cutthroat microsoft approach now of hey we'll just steal your team if you don't sell your company to us and here they are they've now essentially stolen a team and then i guess there's going to be some back-end payments but they're giving up their chat gpt competitor by pie yeah so that's over the dream of that front end consumer facing agent has been taken out of the market so microsoft now doesn't have that competitor for their windows operating co-pilot co-pilot so they eliminated a competitor they took all their employees or their main employees and this and they stood up a wholly owned sub called microsoft ai which mustafa is a ceo of Hmm.

4:14That's interesting. Yes. So what does that say to you? Okay. Well, let me frame it in a way that's different, at least from the way I see it and what's going on in the market. Why is this happening? I think it comes down to the following reasons. I think, one, for large enterprises, and Microsoft being the biggest one these days, AI is so important, and their need for resources that can build defensible AI for their business, they're willing to do anything. Now that stretches from hire the entire open AI team when they had that big falling out a couple, maybe months ago, to taking a company that they're investors in that have been funded through a well-known Silicon Valley investor and gutting it.

4:59This is how important building AI technology is to enterprises. And I think what Microsoft is showing is that if they really want to play to win, they must own that technology. We give them credit for pseudo owning it through the open AI relationship, but clearly they don't own enough of it. And they sort of pseudo owned this one through their investment relationship, but that wasn't enough. And what it really means is the basics of business. If you really want to own something, you actually have to own it. And this is how important it is for them. They're willing to kind of, you know, not quite blow up, but do these funky things with these businesses in order to be in the market.

5:39I think that's A. I think B is these things require so much money. And this kind of got uncovered in the Elon messages, right? Between OpenAI and Elon. Yes. It's almost likely impossible to build one of these things as a standalone company. Because if you don't have a giant machine that's generating cash, like in the case of Google and Search, in the case of Microsoft and their core business plus Azure, it's probably next to impossible to build out the infrastructure needed to pull this off. And so I think that's the second reason. You know, what if the team was like, hey, we're not happy with the 10 ,000 GPUs we have, we need 100 ,000.

6:22Yes. So this is super interesting. Microsoft obviously is, you know, become the world's most valuable tech company, huge market cap. Now, they added to the market cap after this, and they are under obviously regulatory scrutiny, like all of the major big tech companies, Apple and Amazon included. And what people are saying is this is a way to not have regulatory scrutiny. Just hire the team and Lena Khan, the UK, we know, we screwed up the, we'll put the kibosh on the Adobe Figma deal. You know, you can just, hey, I just hired a bunch of people. It is what it is. And so now this is what happens in a free market.

7:04If you try to over-regulate a market and you get rid of M &A, well, now people have found a back door i'll just hire the whole team and and that outcome is probably as good as an m a well we'll see because now what you have to do is you know how do those investors get paid their money back is the company not for the investors not for the investors investors for employees it's probably even better yeah who knows but i mean you would think in order to pull this off they must have figured out a way to make those investors whole and i think there's been some back channel about they're finding some way to do that but this is putting somebody you know who's super qualified and you know he was on the podcast um mustafa was on the podcast this summer august 17th episode 1794 when his book came out and um this is specifically he's going to report to satya satya and he's going to have bing and their co-pilot is going to be his area.

8:01So this is super interesting. You have to wonder, like, Apple and Google are not being super aggressive. It's kind of weird. Like, I don't know. Why isn't Apple getting more active? Did you just see this one thing? I didn't see it. But I saw this article. It said, Apple acquired 23 AI companies last year. What? Yeah. Very quietly, I guess, huh? Yeah. I saw it and I was totally surprised by it. That's a new piece of information for me. I know they've bought some small ones. Six days ago, Apple buys Canadian AI startup, Darwin AI. So that one I know about. And there it is, nine to five back. Apple bought 30 plus AI startups last year.

8:40Wow, this is incredible. Let me take a look at this here. Okay, new information. Apple is said to have bought companies at an earlier stage in their development. Apple's pursuit of AI innovation has been evident in recent years. The tech giant has made a series of strategic acquisitions, including staff hires from AI startups to bolster its AI capabilities across various product lines. Apple purchased up to 32 AI startups by 2023, the highest number among tech giants in the overall AI startup acquisition. Hmm. When did you get a list of these companies? It says by 2023, not in 2023. Yeah, exactly.

9:12Ah, okay. That makes much more sense. Elite performers have a secret, and it helps them stand out in their field. You want to know what that secret is? I can tell you. It's sleep. Whether you're an athlete, an entrepreneur, or you're just a career-driven professional like the people who listen to this podcast, quality sleep. is the fuel that powers your success. Well, how do you get deep, restful sleep? Very simple. You do what I do. Eight sleep. I got two eight sleep mattresses. I never miss a night on my eight sleep and they're selling more than just mattresses right now. You can sleep like a champion with the eight sleep pod cover.

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So whether you're having sleep problems or you just want to optimize here's your call to action i want you to invest in the rest that you deserve go to eight sleep.com slash twist and get 200 bucks off the pod cover what a great deal eight sleep.com slash twist for 200 off the pod plus free shipping we have to find this list of companies this may have been over a very long period of time according to stock lytic apple purchased up to 32 companies okay back in 2020 apple purchased voices b-o-y-s-i-s an ai startup involved in making digital voice assistants that naturally aid in comprehending natural language they did that to improve siri uh ostensibly they also acquired wave one in march of 2023 whose technology is helpful in ample video compression that doesn't seem like ai they bought drive.ai and ai.music they are known for making what they call tuck-in acquisitions at apple so some team of 20 people figures out like a technology get some patents they're just like a really good swat team but they don't have a public facing product and or if they do they shut that down immediately get rid of the website scrub as much information as possible they did this with a acquisition of a company called swell which was a podcast player and that team they were a customer of ours at xwell was great yeah it's a awesome podcasting we doubled our money i was like please don't sell keep going it's gonna be great you know and i think the reason why apple's podcast player got a lot better and they took it more service it was because of that application but they immediately killed swell and swell had this really great interface it was tile cards so you'd swipe the tile cards i guess you were involved in building it maybe you did the android after them but what was interesting is they would drop you off you know into a moment of the podcast so if they knew you were into apple they might skip the first part when we're talking about microsoft and just drop you into that apple and that was their kind of idea was like tiktok ish understanding what you like about podcasts and then drop you off at the the moment in time that you would like yeah it's a pretty interesting idea yeah way early on yeah i was actually i was an investor in a company called locationary that they bought to clean up apple maps okay here we go apple is looking to add more acquisitions even as it plans to bring on board brighter.ai a german-based startup to improve its new headset the apple vision pro hmm so let's get to demos a lot of demos hey congratulations i guess to the team but maybe not the investors uh congratulations uh satya and nadella to running the table on everybody i mean my lord this guy is like yeah he i mean this is people were like microsoft is cutthroat back in the day it's this is getting super cutthroat yeah be careful out there careful out there folks yeah satya will take all your employees satya might steal your girl he might steal your girl exactly be careful don't leave your girl on the dance floor satya comes right up we inserted ai video satya and del stealing somebody's girlfriend on the dance floor oh my god it's so funny all right let's do our demos come on okay first one we're gonna we're gonna rock and roll here today so suno is back and what i would say is uh they have a brand new model v3 and what they've done is so i don't know if you remember this one this is where you give it a description and yes i remember this yeah and so they have a new model that's why we're bringing them back here okay what i was going to say is i did some ones beforehand but these were kind of the defaults give me a little description jake how we'll do one live here um a rock song in the style of dire straits oh my god okay so i i know what's gonna happen but okay in the style of uh oh because i'm saying dire straits yeah yeah i want you to see what they're doing okay that's it rock song and style so if you do that what you're going to see is right down here uh almost immediately it's going to kick an error back basically saying could not generate that song description contains artist dire straits ah okay so let's take out dire straits yeah yeah they're being respectful of this um but it kind of kills exactly what we all want to hear here so what we would say here a rock song in the progressive rock style with finger picking electric guitar about a rock band playing in a dive bar and kind of alluding to sultans of swing here yeah yeah so it's so funny jay cal this is what this song up here was and while that's coming up i i did it and i basically had like chat tpt explained to me what the style of dire straits was I mean you can see how much fun this is going to be I mean literally this is going to be so much fun when they figure it out this is your one

15:09that is literally it doesn't sound like Mark exactly like Mark Knopfler but it is definitely like a bluesy it's more John Mayer who is influenced by uh dire straits but it's similar to dire straits i mean they understand electric guitar progressive rock they understand soulful they understand finger picking wow wow i mean it's actually starting to sound like dire straits there that is really impressive that's super impressive i mean so let me hear the one you did oh mine was not as good so uh because i you're much better at describing songs than i am so got it let me do another one yeah that's that's melodic you got my life let's do another one let's do one that is progressive punk rock about breaking the law and getting caught by the cops and so this is i fought the law and the law won by the clash progressive rock punk rock about breaking the law and getting caught by the cops i thought the law and the law one for west end girls for a second by uh yeah the pet shop boys i mean that would be more of sky dan's playlist but not exactly he's into those emo pet shop boy okay here we go pretty fast-paced punk rock okay that's kind of ready

16:35no didn't do a good job i don't know no hold on play it again let me see something here it's got the drums okay

16:46oh

16:50did you say f the police yeah right here he just said that's the police giving the finger to law enforcement f the police oh my god i mean that's a little hardcore yeah um you know maybe because i put progressive punk rock in there but it went for fast-paced punk rock i just want people to understand here who are not watching they should go to youtube and type in this weekend startups and subscribe and hit the bell and watch us do these because it's giving you in under a minute a musical track with lyrics that are somewhat synced to it yes and if you were to play this to me i would say that is the what do they call the tapes when somebody would give their audition to the demo this sounds like a demo tape like it's it's bad but it's a demo tape right it feels like it could be good if they were more produced like if you gave this to a professional producer they might be able to make something out of it yeah i give this an a this is a for awesome check this out we just built a new site instead of using a template like we normally would i was prompted with a series of questions our preferred website structure and objective that could be a new business model, whatever you're doing, the color palette, design elements, and font pairings.

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19:07It's super valuable. And when you partner with Squarespace, like I've done for a decade, you constantly get new product releases. This is one of the great product teams of all time over at Squarespace. I know them. And they launch incredible things like this blueprint AI that you got to see to believe squarespace.com slash twist squarespace.com slash twist. What's really interesting here is this is it's not a proof of concept anymore these are actually demo tape quality these are demo tape quality i'm going to play this one for you this was your second dive bar one okay yeah oh it's got lyrics

19:43more country yeah yeah no that one wasn't good that one wasn't so what's interesting there is they put auto-tune on the person they made it into more of country and they my finger picking it didn't understand that i didn't want a song about finger picking electric guitar i wanted the finger picking electric guitar so that sounds like my our description wasn't crisp enough it should give you tell me about the lyrics in one box yes tell me about the guitar yeah tell me about the drum so i wonder if we did that a drum style that's you know hard charging an electric guitar style that's finger picking a vocal style that's a female vocalist i wonder if you could even give it all those yeah you can it's it's you know kind of lets you describe it how and how much detail you want to i mean here we are folks it's pretty clear what's going to happen here how this was trained is interesting because although they are not letting you put in dire straits or band names i believe this was trained on copyrighted music i don't know that yeah but i'm wondering it does feel like so this is going to be an interesting trick right yeah we don't let you say you want to create darth vader or jedis because we know that's protected ip you can't make marvel characters you can't make dire straits songs but we kind of trained it on marvel and dire straits so if you do enough you know prompt engineering you can still get that i think that and is this tell everybody the the url of this so they can go try it i'm just pulling up this it's yeah suno.ai right s-u-n-o dot a-i okay but what i want you to see here is from a commercial use uh aspect you are allowed to take these songs and put them in monetization services and so as long as you're a subscriber and basically if you're a paying subscriber you own the songs you generate while subscribed so as long as you subscribe you own it so what's interesting though is while you are subscribed oh while you are subscribed so if you unsubscribe they get the rights back yes oh that's maybe that's just a weird way of saying if you are paying subscriber to suno then you own the songs you generate while subscribed to pro or premiere subject to your clients okay so if you stop your subscription that's not worded very well for the team over there you know interesting business model make a great song subscribe to them in one of those plans use it in your youtube for audio or you know background music that's pretty incredible yeah i like that they're dipping their toe into the rights issue and trying to explain it yeah i would like to know the training data yeah so we'll look into that and hey if you work at suno uh let us know how did you train this show exactly i'd like to have him on the show that'd be a great time come on great time and i I give it an A.

22:38I'm in the same spot as you. I also want to say, there's one more thing I just wanted to show that they had here, is they kind of have this trending, so you can see by the number of plays. I'll just play one of these for us right now. Unless something jumps at you here. Yeah, one of the top. Any one of the top ones sounds good. Definitely not speed metal, but... Yeah, this one sounds cool.

23:05It's electric punk.

23:13I mean, this is like, I was listening to some of these, honestly, for me, I couldn't tell if one of these songs made it into the, you know, Billboard top 100 and whether it was a real artist or not. Yeah. I don't know if we have a bet on this, but if we do, the under is going to win. I mean, it's pretty clear that we saw that they could do Gwyneth Paltrow's voice, for example in speechify so you know or getting me to speak chinese and do you and i can do this in french or japanese or chinese like it's okay we know we can get speaking to the point at which you really can't tell the difference whether it's a robocall of biden or lip-syncing you know us speaking in another language so okay checkbox there and now it's kind of clear like we knew lyrics would get done that's not difficult we know artwork for albums can get done so the real question was could you actually make a melodic interesting song so can music and the singing voice get there and it's pretty clear that it can it's impressive a's a's all around a a a a for awesome it's gonna be great yeah we got a little breaking news here oh okay wow open ai faces multiple lawsuits over chat gpt's use of books news articles and other copyright material and its vast corpus of training data soon as founders declined to reveal details of just what data they're shoveling into their own model other than the fact that its ability to generate convincing human vocals comes in part because it's learning from recordings of speech in addition to music naked speech will help you learn the characteristics of human voice that are difficult showman says from rolling stone and i think our bet was um that there's a top 100 song by ai and so you know it's i'm gonna make a thousand of these in one i don't win that bet i'm gonna be like the streaker people don't know somebody bet whatever 10 to 1 odds there'd be a streaker at the super bowl so then they decided to get place the bet get butt naked and run across the field sometimes you got to do what you got to do to win and we'll we will put a link to the um the suno story from rolling stone uh by brian hyatt in the show notes so you can read that directly thank you to rolling stone for asking that hard question let's keep going here let's keep going this is a good area I think you're going to like this one a lot.

25:27Go here. So we haven't really talked about them a lot. They are one of the foundational model providers, and they released a new model called Command-R. Command-R, which is, I believe, to refresh the pay. That's usually, yeah, it is. It is. You got it right. But what Command-R is, you know, claimed to be focused on and really good at is RAG. Stands for Retrieval Augmented Generation. effectively what that means is using a model to go get uh not the source of truth from its training data but to go use an external source to go get the training data to get the information you're looking for so using it as like a almost like an agent okay and so in this case i've pulled up their playground and what you can do is you can say hey get me a quick overview of um global market for solar panels it's just one of their built-in defaults yeah and it's going to run here but while it does that i'll just kind of i did this a few minutes ago and so what you'll see here is it went and did this search it did this grounding search and it put all the references right here okay so you said can you give me a global market overview of solar panels and then it went to the web and it found a bunch of different articles that's a solar panel market size share etc okay so it's doing a web search yep and then what it did was it put this like you know short summary together with the links to where it got all the data from okay citations which is what we've always been asked i've always been asking for and some people don't want to do it because i think the reason people don't want to do it sunday they don't want to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar so they'd rather pretend that they didn't take this information This is different.

27:16Because it's searching the web. Exactly. So this is using the model as a reasoning engine to search over the web. And then it's putting it here. So this is not coming from the model's training data without it being connected to the internet saying, oh, well, I went and I went over this site. And I realized that in 2023, the market was 165 billion. This is a distinctly different thing. And I think let's spend another minute making that clarification. what you talk about a lot is when someone takes a model and basically in the training data they go over things and when they regurgitate this information without a reference that's not you know falling under i guess what you would say is fair use i think that's how you categorize yeah and let's just even use the word fair like put aside all legal concepts it doesn't feel fair that somebody did all that work and then somebody else you know got the value from it and here when you do a citation and you take a small portion of it and you link to the source i wouldn't mind that if you i was literally talking to somebody's got like a twitter and instagram handle called startup archive or something and he like every week does one of my videos and i said hey listen i'm okay with you doing it but would you please put at jason and at twi startups in your first tweet because he wasn't actually linking back to this week in startups so people had to guess who i was in the video and i'm like hey here's the conditions under which i'll let you do this put at jason at twi startups and in the follow-up put a link to the source and then i'll let you do this you know once a week or whatever which i try to be reasonable about it's a fan of the show i thought that was fair are you grinding hard to grow your business i bet you are you're listening to this week in startups of course you are but don't let your hard-earned profits slip away because of overpaying on taxes you need to check out gelt g-e-l-t is the secret tax weapon trusted by savvy founders and CEOs, their elite solutions will transform how you handle your taxes.

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Join gelt.com slash twist to get 15 % off. transform your taxes from a liability to an asset that's 15 off your first year at join guilt.com slash twist so anyway this feels fair it's great the other thing is data and facts are not protectable you cannot copyright data and facts so if you were to make a website and you were to put these are the heights of all of the nba players in the nba now i could take that data and put it into my database you cannot claim that those facts are you know copyrightable now so does that you can say scores okay interesting yes sports scores whatever it is there are some exceptions there where people have tried to put copyright onto it one of them is my terms of service are that you can't scrape data and if you do you're breaking into my server this was the linkedin case versus an israeli company i believe that linkedin wound up losing so you know scraping data off of crunch base or pitch book or other places like if it's behind a paywall you know and you take that data and you've scraped it you know they can make some legal claims against you it depends on jurisdiction as well obviously in israel and some other countries they they they don't stop me from doing that but you would have to get past the paywall and really it just depends on if you're being fair with people but i could go on to it for example crunch base or linkedin take the ceo's name of every company in san francisco and make a new website with that information but if i scraped it they might be able to make the claim or if it's your website you know san francisco startups you could make the claim that i invaded and i broke into your servers and it's that's why they probably put them all behind logins now too right because then that forces you to agree to terms of use that's exactly why they do it so the name of the company was hiq um oh yeah and uh linkedin yeah so if um i'll just read it to you really quick because i think it's i'm super fascinated by this hiq inc versus linkedin corp case about web scraping the ninth circuit affirmed the district court's preliminary injunction preventing linkedin from denying the plaintiff hiq labs from accessing linkedin's publicly available linkedin member profiles hiq is a small data analytics company that uses automated boxes scrape information from public linkedin profiles the court ruled that hiq had the right to do web scraping however the supreme court based on van burn versus united states decision vacated decision and remanded the case to further review in a second ruling they affirmed the decision and then in november 22 the usage court northern district of california where the high q had breached linkedin's user agreement and a settlement agreement was reached between the two parties so even though they had the right to scrape in they didn't have the right to break the terms of service if that makes sense right um and so that that's how that sort and then i've said this before on this podcast and on all in most of these things get settled right and so it's very hard to actually know what the law is in a lot of these cases and there's not like a bright line it's always like interpretation and the interpretation here i think was hey you can scrape and read data off the web then you know the that data is not copyrightable and an article might be but not data in the article however you also have to you can't break somebody's terms of service to use their service right because that's an agreement you're making when you log into the website super complicated how does um well i guess in this case let me just put my share back up um in this case we're okay because they're citing it so we don't run into that issue you know even if you cite it if you did scrape the person's website and break the terms of service they could still say you're broke into my servers basically you broke our agreement i gave you an agreement to use my website you agreed to it therefore you've broken it so if these folks have a terms of service it's possible that this is they broke the terms of service by scraping it like that so when i clicked on this right here and it took me to this this came from grandview research solar panel and they've ingested the entire thing and they've they're presenting it on their website that's illegal they didn't ingest it i asked this question let's go through this workflow okay it then went and searched the internet and then it basically used um its web search connector to go through these you know different references yeah but see it's got the whole entire article there so they have republished the entire article on their website that's the part that would be illegal in all likelihood but do you consider this a republishing right here the whole thing's there you scrape the whole thing and publish it on their website so you don't have to visit their website now they did not have the right to republish it on their website if they even put like in this if they put a snippet and linked back to it that would be fine yeah okay so on the left where it's citing like one sentence yes that would be the equivalent of google doing that one box where they just take a clip yeah but on the right here they've they've republished it so that if i was advising them on fair use and legal issues i would say hey you know here maybe truncate and say visit the website because then grand view research from the web solar vp house whoever this is grand view research on solar panels market size yeah they're getting no value here you've just stolen all their value this page that got it so this page that you linked on yeah and they're trying to sell reports you've basically sucked in the report you've intercepted and given all the value essentially in my mind stolen value that would have happened if they went there and so that's the challenge i think with these kind of services now what somebody like freeberg will say or you know a lot of like google techno you know first people will say well if it's on the open web then you can do whatever you want and that's just like a level of naivete or like techno might is right that's just ridiculous like just because something's available on the web like listen netflix is available on the web that doesn't mean i can take you know queen's gambit and republish it you know it's a little copyright immatural so your recommendation would have been they can look at this entire page which is this is the page they looked at yeah this is the whole page yeah they can go and extract this 165 billion to 355 billion which somehow came from this page somewhere right i'm sure if we look for unless that page has here the terms of service are you cannot republish this you cannot pull this data and republish it and they agreed to it now if that page is on the open web and you didn't agree to the terms of service but the now the question is does the bot have to agree to the terms of service and the bot does if you send the bot to go do this stuff you know it does and this is why people create bot for watering software yes and so i bet you the way this is working is they're firing up a browser to do it and this is where like being fair is the easiest path forward you know okay i think the new standard will be robots.txt and um a language model.txt or ai.txt where they can say hey here's our rules you can um use this one time in a session if you put at the start of the sentence the following information is from this website for the complete information go here and then you can present up to 10 of the page yeah or something like that how do we make a better internet because that's still kind of as a disjointed experience like i like what they did here and honestly i wasn't thinking about it like i was like oh this is great they got this information they linked to where they got it from and you know but i see your point how do we make a better internet i think the robots.txt and a lot of the early google work was pretty good they always took a small portion of the original work yeah and they linked back and so they could always say you know and they said if you don't want to be in the index you don't have to so you could opt out of it now most people would say opting in would be the higher standard but okay let's just say opting out at least gives the person who owns it some power and all you have to do is just put website.com slash robots.txt but they also said we're only going to take a small portion of the original content the abstract yeah and they even got rid of recently the web cache remember they had web cache where you can see the whole page they got rid of web cache because i think that was causing issues around copyright as well i suspect that's why it went away but i can't confirm that and so a better way to do it would be to say if you want to use me in your language model or your ai product we have a license and here's how you can pay for that license go here and it might be you pay automatically through an api it might be a clearing house like the music industry has or it might just be talk to our cell team you know if it's ready that might just say here you know if you want to license it talk to this person in sales and set up a meeting um and so yeah some sort of automated rights would be good if you look at youtube they also came up with a solution which was if somebody's using my content i have the right to claim the advertising right so if you were to do a mark knoffler song on your channel if we played mark knoffler right now his representatives would claim this video put ads against it and they would get the money they get all the monetization all the monetization so i as a creator gonna be like you know what i just wanted to play a dope song i don't care about the six dollars i'm making from this video a year yeah go ahead and take the money i'm not in for the money now other people there's an entire genre of reacting to songs yes and they claim fair use and it's a bit of a hack because people type in i want to listen to sultans of swing oh yeah there's a ton of these videos it's like the first time so just type in sultans of saying reaction video and pull it up on the screen and you'll see it on youtube i like watching these sometimes it's kind of funny for me to see people but it's now become offshore so there are some people in like i think the philippines or it might be somewhere in africa are they have armies of people doing this format which is react to videos and there's so many look reaction comes up automatically wait do you see how many there are okay so this one's from two years ago next one four months ago next one three months ago a real number of views too yes next one 10 months ago another one another one keep going and those guys are like the originals by the way there and then i know that guy is a famous person but like you can see how many of these videos there are and then what you'll notice is a lot of the folks are from foreign countries and you're like wait a second what's going on i think that some group of people in other countries have figured out this is a hack now if you pull one of these up and you look at the that guy classical composer reacts to the daily doug i love the daily doug this guy's great he's a professional composer and he's had a problem because he responds and he goes really into detail it's super educational and he doesn't play the song all the way through he pauses it and stuff like that so it's not a replacement for spotify okay and some of them they have disclaimers and then some of them these get you know he loses his monetization and then he said in his videos i you know i i don't fight every claim because he makes his money from patreon but then there are some people who insist he can't publish it so then he gets multiple strikes against his account and if you get three strikes on youtube your account gets turned off forever and so three copyright claims are done forever and so you have to be careful if you do too many of these and you have to fight them so he'll spend all this time on a reaction video of a certain song okay the artist will not say i want to claim it they'll say you can't use it oh period stop wow because i was gonna ask can't they just claim it but they say no they're so pissed off they just say you're done you're done and then he gets caught in that copper clip so anyway there's abuse in every system and so youtube and google have navigated this over decades and i think there's something to this give and take where people get to opt out or they have a way to collect the money from it that you know feels at least somewhat fair you can actually publish an entire version of star wars if you edit it yeah so people have re-edited like the three prequels into one movie and then put clone wars video into it and they can just make like their own movie like their own two-hour movie out of like seven hours of videos yeah and they publish it on youtube or other places and they as long as they don't claim ownership of it or monetize it it seems like lucasart is okay with fat pay we started in one place yeah which is a totally different place no but it's all related though we started in a place where yeah these guys have created this i think a really good model i thought you know they did a really good job and i think you agreed they've done a good job of citing yes where this has come from absolutely to me of all the models that are out there right now this is awesome because you can now at least press that this is not a hallucination and you can go find out where these numbers come from yeah i've always felt sourcing is super easy to do the way they're doing it is they put the sources on the side as opposed to putting them in line like you would do in a college paper i like when you put the number one at the end yeah um like you do in a college paper on wikipedia so i would like to see i would just make that one little edit for the citations but otherwise i give it a b plus i give it a b plus i would use it i like it i think it should exist in the world and people should have the ability to opt out of it and what they should aspire to do is send as much traffic and give as much recognition to the people who they get the content from so that they don't piss them off yeah maybe it's just like you said a little bit a little short snippet here on the right or down below and then basically link people out so that the what's your grade on that traffic i give it a b plus what did you give it well so for me like you know we've been spending a lot of time in and around reg for the last year and a half i was blown away because the number one issue i have and it's funny because i end up having this argument with with friends where they pull something up from chad gpt and i said well you that doesn't necessarily mean that it's real.

43:46And then we'll do a search and find out that it wasn't real. So for me, this was an A because I would send everybody to command R and say, if you really want a Q &A style approach to a language model, this is where you can do it and you can get the references so we know that what it's telling us is real. So what is your grade again? I'm giving it an A. Okay, perfect. A and a B plus. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I had a friend that recently got in trouble on a flight. He was having a couple of drinks before. And then when he boarded, he was carrying a drink in. And then he got rid. Yeah, exactly.

44:21And he got rid of it just as he was sitting down and he wasn't trying to do anything nefarious. Then they asked him to get off the plane. Then he pulled out Chad GPT to ask what the rule was that he was trying to show them. And then basically the, you know, the agents and everyone else like, yeah, that's not, that's not the rule. Like you can't walk on a plane with an open drink. So. and did he wind up getting bounced yeah he did yeah i mean my advice is yeah a if you if you really like alcohol that much there's something about people who love alcohol i'm not a drinker as you know yeah i've seen you have a cocktail once in a while you know what you can do if you're really that into it is you could get a bottle of snapple and put your vodka with snapple and not have this issue but i always see these dopey people not your friends don't be but other dopey people who pull out like they pull out a bottle of like vodka on a plane and i'm like are you dumb like just pour it into a snapple bottle and you're drinking a snapple no or if you're going to a concert or whatever you're walking down the street and then second you can't have a open that was the way to go like you got the hack i think he was just you know there's like he was his plane was delayed he was drinking at the bar and he just took the drink from there that was it like sort of yeah he gave it wheels as we said he gave it wheels oh i like that gave it wheels all right well you know is that this was a drunk driving um very poor taste joke when i grew up in brooklyn people would ask you hey you want to give it wheels and people like yeah give it wheels and they would just put your drink in a to-go cup for your ride home and people were tanked so don't drink and drive folks don't drink and drive don't do it don't do it okay one last one this one's really cool so you know uh end of last year we talked about multimodal models becoming really really good this is a chinese company actually called deep seek and um they have this new model uh very small only seven billion parameters and uh you know they have some different examples here uh then i just pulled one of them up which is how many people in this image and why and so basically there's one person he's wearing a pink shirt standing in front of a large mirror so it's able figure out that it's a single person standing in front of a mirror why i really liked what this team has done all these models are open source they're available to use and to get a 7 billion parameter model that's able to you know reason this type reason exactly over images this is going to give us superpowers and so this is going to end up everywhere for us this is really interesting you can see this on hugging face.co yeah yeah and the name of it is deep seek just do a search for d-e-e-p-s-e-e-k and the image given to it is how many people are in the image period space y question mark and it's a person holding a mirror as if they're putting the mirror on the wall like they're installing it so it's a round mirror and you can see it's got the reflection of the person so you would think the computer would get it wrong that there were was two people in this image yes but it says this is one person in the image period the individual appears to be a man wearing a pink shirt she doesn't want to assume gender it's a little bit woke standing in front of a large round mirror that reflects his image he seems to be adjusting or touching something on the wall beside him possibly checking for any inforations or making sure it's aligned properly wow so it knows because i said it looks like he's trying to adjust it this action suggests he might be involved in some sort of home improvement project or simply ensuring everything looks neat and tidy i mean that is that's just next level come on it's next level they're describing the person's actions through the image that's bonkers like how many images must it be trained on to understand somebody's involved in a home improvement project that they're in a mirror that they're a man you know that they're wearing a pink shirt i mean this is nuts and it is kind of a pink jacket so it's not a human would know that's a pink members only jacket as opposed to a shirt but hey at least there's something that a human can figure out in this image this this is an a yeah yeah i mean based on this one but is there another one click on one more let's take a look yeah yeah so there's click on one more let's see yeah we'll just do uh which one of these do you like help me write python code based on it oh what is this app about i like that one too both of those i like yeah pick either one let's do this one okay let's do it all right so it's showing okay help me write a python code based on the image and the image image is a thing and if this then that right kind of situation image depicts a flowchart okay for a python code that simulates a game where the user is asked to guess a number between one and ten the flowchart includes several condition statements which are represented by different color boxes with text in them here's how you can write the corresponding python code okay there we go i mean yeah it's just getting so good and i've come to the conclusion that even though many of these things are not ready for prime time i'm convinced that they will figure it out at a rapid pace unlike say self-driving which is incredibly hard because of the edge cases and because of like you know what's at stake like what's at stake describing an image or writing some software code that you're going to edit anyway because you could take this and put it into devon right yep yeah i mean it's an egg this is a good another one which is like what are you it's like hey what is this app about so it's like minutes uh listen meditations points courses saved the app appears appears to be a meditation or mindfulness tracking application this is indicated by your statistics section which shows metrics such as meditation minutes listen and points right additionally there's your mood this stuff is incredible yeah it's really and if you can describe these things what's interesting is then you could write the next series of prompts so by describing what's in the image now you could say what questions would humans have next yes right or what would a human being like to do next yeah you know um oh okay yeah let's go ahead and ask it given this information and see what it does yeah like who makes the app maybe or yeah yeah basically provided in the image humans might have the following questions how many minutes did i spend meditating today what is the total number of meditation sessions completed how many courses yeah it's incredible can i set reminders for when to meditate to listen to content yeah i mean it's incredible i mean it's totally incredible give us 10 questions that somebody who is using they took the perspective of the person using the app what they might be yeah wow are there any specific activities or challenges within the app that contribute to earning points like how do i hack this app to be to level up i mean wow isn't this just wild and with 7 billion uh parameters and the size of this i could run it perhaps on my m3 laptop you can for sure run it on your laptop and this is getting to the place where you can probably run it on your phone i mean here we go folks it's a brave new world and sunny and i are here to help you with it this week in startups.com slash ai i this one an a let's give them this was an a right it's an a hey yeah a a yeah i mean seven b and this is the thing i was talking to somebody the other day and they were just telling me you know you know these big models are expensive yep i was talking to the ceo of glean i think and uh i think mamoon from kleiner backed him and so the head of glean was on and he's like you know sometimes like we're seeing customers who can use it i think it was him but i may have check supposed with somebody else like it might be better to ask the question three or four times to these other cheaper faster models and then ask a follow-up question on that and then give an answer than to use the most expensive model yes that's called reflection it's actually a term with an x they call that reflection just like humans reflect and so one of the things is all these scores these benchmarks you see jcal they're based on one shot if you do it multiple times and if it goes fast enough then who cares because if it's just running fast enough do you really care that it answered in one you know because you can get the score way up so do a bunch of smaller models get five answers real quick but then how do you determine which is the best answer or how does ai determine what's the best answer well that's the grounding yeah i mean there's different ways one the humans obviously do the reinforcement learning but two the grounding against actual data right so like what we saw earlier with command r that's the intersection of these things that's why i don't think we'll ever have a moment where they'll exist without the internet they'll always have to have the internet and the internet will become it's sort of the way for these models to go ground themselves in whatever resolution they've come to got it this will be their fact checking department their reference desk their card catalog their library their wikipedia just a way for them to level set that they got it right all right listen if you guys want to get it right this week in startups.com slash ai and x.com slash sundip x.com slash jason you can follow the show twi startups on twitter and i'm doing some tiktok experiments so good search for jason calacanis on tiktok i did my first tiktok today where i just mentioned tianan square the uyghurs and banning tiktok and i just want to see if like it gets past the sensors and anybody sees it don't don't do it i'm tempting the uh this easy bit i was just curious it was nice to know yeah hey listen it was good to know me i'll be in a i'll be getting re-education with We'll see you all next time.

53:40Bye-bye. Bye.