Secrets of Startup Recruiting in the US AND Japan! (feat. Sho Takei) | E2233

24:31So the strategy here, all the tips here will be like try to get referrals from friends that you trust. That's in a similar industry. That kind of helps. Right. And usually like when you're a startup, like you won't completely hire someone that you don't know. Or maybe you will. But usually you want to start with someone that you can trust. And maybe it's a friends of a friend referral so that, you know, if anything happens, you're like, hey, what the hell, right? Why did you refer this person? so I mean if usually if you're a friend and if you know your friend is like legit usually people around them will be kind of similar right right so that's how actually we went about it by the way there's levels of friendships as well it's not like hey I met this guy like two weeks ago like at a club and you know he seems cool he was popping bottles yeah yeah he's really cool like yeah it's really gotta be someone you spend a lot of time with right like someone you can really trust your life with God and especially these is so important for co-founders right I think a lot of here like maybe you have your own startup but maybe you're only one person and or maybe you're trying to find another co-founder like if you can like you you want to find someone that's like ideally you're a friend of yours that's been with a lot with you right right that's ideal but if not I would recommend to have like a founders agreement because then it's kind of like getting married right like if anything happens what should be in that founders agreement yeah things like hey what's like your role what's the expectation so it's like very aligned and like hey what if this happens what do we do how do we split shares whatever it is right and this is why the vesting schedule for the founders is important and a lot of people don't even have a vesting schedule until they get to the seed round or their series a and then the vcs say hey listen we've seen this movie before we need to everybody to be on a vesting schedule to make sure this goes tightly.

26:19And if you don't have a co-founder and you can't find a co-founder, what does that say about the founder in your mind? Again, we're on This Week in Startups. We're on Twist. Permission to be candid. I mean, I've seen both sides. Like I've seen a single-person founder struggle to find a co-founder. So maybe they found a COO, but that's not a co-founder like title. A lot of times they'll not last very long. If you're a single co-founder, that's still okay because I have a lot of friends who do that as well. Yeah. Most investors are a little concerned. It's a pink or a red flag, especially in an accelerator.

26:55How many people here are solo founders? Any solo founders? One, two, three. So four. So about four out of 30 are. And for our program here at Founder University, we always pick multiples. We don't want solo co-founders unless they are extremely, extremely good at recruiting and talent. So we filter for that. So for the four people, you're good at finding talent, I assume? You're terrible at it or you're good at it? Okay, good. Okay, we'll work with you. All right, when we get back from this quick break, I want to ask you about the impact of AI on hiring and which positions you think will be gone or will be very different in the future and then how it's actually impacting the hiring process when we get back on This Week in Startups.

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28:22But Caldera's Eye Serum makes your skin more resilient and leaves me looking well rested, even when my sleep number, yeah, sometimes it dips a bit, right? I only get six or seven hours. So it's time to elevate your skincare routine with Caldera. Head to calderalab.com slash twist and use the code twist at checkout for 20 % off your first order. That's C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B.com slash twist. calderalab.com slash twist. We're back here for twist in Tokyo. Thank you. Wow. So let's talk about AI. It's obviously impacting every job. Startups are resource constrained. So startups use AI tools much more often than regular companies because they're always trying to do more with less.

29:12They're always very inquisitive and interested and curious about tools. It's kind of their advantage, right? But then there's also AI tools that are coming out to help people sort. So I was at a dinner in Singapore last year and I asked 12 founders, How many people have hired an outside HR person or recruiter to write a job description? I'll ask it here. How many people have hired an HR person to write a job description in the last six months? Okay, nobody. How many people have used ChatGPT or another large language model to write a job description? Raise your hand. Hi. Okay. It's literally almost everybody.

29:48And if we were sitting here 20 years ago, the first thing you did was hire an HR person, and a talent person, part-time, fractional, and they wrote your job descriptions. Now, the job descriptions coming out of AI are better than anything you could write, I think. You tell me if I'm wrong. And then I think sorting through them. So I'll ask here, has anybody here used AI to sort through applications? Raise your hand if you're using AI to sort through applications. One, two, yeah. So that's going to be the three. That's going to be the next trend, because that's what I'm hearing from sophisticated founders is they put all the resumes into Notebook LM or whatever and say which ones are best suited for this job and why.

30:23So tell me a little bit about AI first in the hiring process. So I think as long as companies need to hire humans, there always needs to be a human in the loop, I think. How I see AI is like, by the way, AI is game-changing, right? It's kind of like before, like 30 years ago in recruiting, we had Rolodex and a phone, right? But now then LinkedIn came around. And then I think this phase now with the new AI technologies, like this is where like the new world is going, right? So for myself, like actually, you know, we actually build our own internal tools like a software that, you know, it's a database, but it's sort of our CRM or ATS, if you will, right?

31:08Applicant tracking system, CMS content, contact management system. Yeah. What did you say, CMS? CRM? CRM, sorry. So yeah, customer relationship management. I have CMS on my brain constantly because I was in the content business for so long. Yeah, so we built the software. So, for example, in my world today, when we do calls, let's say we speak with a candidate, right? After the candidate interview is done, usually, traditionally, people will have to write notes and like, oh, what did I do? Yeah, sure, there's AI note taker, and then you kind of call. For us, we built the system where as soon as you're done, everything's integrated, everything's in place, all the salary information, all that everything one candidate wants.

31:45and then our system goes okay based on the cv and the the note that you did there's these other candidates that is in the database that could be good so it kind of pushes like hey you pitch this role there's a bunch of different candidates that comes on onto the platform also the client side so like hey you pitch this company but there's four other companies right now actively that you can actually introduce the candidate right so it just kind of it makes us become like 10x recruiter Right. Because the original recruiters, after 20 years in Silicon Valley or here, they would be like, you know, I think you would fit the culture of these other companies.

32:23Do you want me to try to get you an interview there? But in reality, AI does that so much better because it's going to be able to look under in so many different corners and find trends that maybe the recruiter wanted, couldn't find. Yeah, I think, but for AI, I really think really like the admin and the sourcing part is where the AI can replace. Right. But at the end of the day, like it is a human business and recruiters need to influence. Like nobody wants to talk to a robot and join a company. So I strongly believe recruiters will not be replaced, but it's just going to help a recruiter do so much more like 10x what they're doing.

33:00Got it. Similar to an engineer. Similar to an engineer. What do you think of these AI interviewers? People are using AI interviewers. I've given this pitch by a number of different startups. Hey, we can use AI to interview somebody. And people are complaining now, at least in the United States, that they've sent 200 resumes, done 100 AI interviews. It's not even a human on the call. And they feel a little bit insulted by that, that a human didn't even take the time to consider them. And then they never hear back from the robot. It could work really if it's like a really volume like it could be a factory thing or whatever it is But it has to be super volume right because then that's the only way you can really hire that many people at once Right, so if you need to hire like a thousand people a day, I think that works But if you're like doing a full-time, you know if you're hiring an operations manager Like of course like the person person's gonna join a company that had human in the loop right at the end of the day It doesn't matter how great the company is.

33:57If they're not even going to take the time to have someone speak to them, of course, it's not a great experience, right? Best advice on shaking talent loose who are in an existing job that they like or love even. They're at a company. And this is, I think, really something you have to think about because somebody who's on the job market and who doesn't have a job, man, that says something, right? That's, I think you would say, what's left in the bushel at the orchard or whatever, at the farmer's market. And then there's the people who are thinking of leaving. They're putting out feelers. And then there's the people who are not even looking.

34:35But maybe they would consider it, but probably not. So I think it's pretty obvious how you get the first two. They're curious or they're desperate. But what about this third group who they're not in the market? They don't even have a LinkedIn or their LinkedIn isn't updated. How do you get those, the really great, great, talented individuals who can change a company forever, but who are coveted by their bosses currently? There's many candidates like that in the market, in the real market. Being able to convince – and yes, you're right. I mean, everybody – every candidate has different situations, different contexts.

35:14Maybe they hate their manager or situation change or something. So I typically don't try to discount. But yeah, when you look at a profile, you kind of know if this person hopped around so much, like why would they stick in your company for the next one year or two years, right? So in Japan, like a lot of people are like, oh, this person is too hoppy, too jumpy, not stable. Like, nah, we don't like that. But yes, you're right. Like I think a lot of these people in the company that stays for a long time, hard to get. And the market is so small, especially in tech. Everybody knows each other. And if you see a profile, it's like, yeah, someone, like, do you know this guy?

35:42Yeah, he's very good. So you get that kind of reference check very easily. But in order to really convince the person to like leave a job is like yeah, you got to like really throw I mean at first you got to like really understand what drives them and what motivates them if it's like Growth or whatever the reason might be You do have to basically throw out a lot like roll the red carpet basically like whether it's equity Given 1 % of the company or 2 % whatever it is And of course use referrals to kind of get them chatting and that's kind of what happened with uber as well, right? Like Dara, he didn't want the job.

36:17He was at Expedia for a while. And, you know, people kept like going at him, full court press. Yeah. And then, yeah, like really good recruiter, really sold it to him, right? The vision in the future. So those folks, you're going to need to find their friends to get the entree. You're going to have to really understand them and listen to them and figure out what it is that drives them. typically those high performers are already going to be in the top compensation bracket. So if it's not comp, it's what? It could be the manager, right? Or the relationship that they have. Or maybe they don't want to leave.

36:56Maybe it's too risky to leave that job, right? But everybody has a price, and you just have to push those questions to really find what is... Would they tell you when you're on the phone what their salary is and their comp? If you get enough trust from them, yes. Because you're trying to help them too. Right. And what is the number that makes a top performer leave in terms of if you were to just pick a percentage increase in their total comp, what would the total percentage where they take the phone call, they listen to you, they engage? What's the number? Usually, like a tech executive here would be like a million U.S.

37:33comp. Wow. Yeah. So if you say, yeah, we can offer one million, they'll be like, yeah. I'm listening. Yeah. So, and, but what percentage more than what they're currently making kind of wakes somebody up and they say, take the call? Well, if it's like a really hard person to get, like they've stuck in the business for like five years or 10 years or something, and they're an executive, I think, you know, somewhere like 50%. I mean, maybe not even 50, maybe it's like 80. But, you know, there's a lot of. So it has to be a big jump to shape one of those people. Or it's like, hey, we'll pay for your housing, all your kids' tuition.

38:05You find those kind of ways. Holy cow. Help them reduce tax, whatever it is. Whatever the problem they have, you find that problem and solve it for them. Wow. Yeah. That's hardcore. Yeah, because at the end of the day, yes, they love their manager. They love their whatever. But at the end of the day, if they have family, they're going to take care of their family first. There's this great story I heard, just as an aside. There was this famous studio head. I think it was Mike Ovitz. And Mike Ovitz wanted this director to do the film Tootsie with Dustin Hoffman in it. but the director he wanted didn't like Dustin Hoffman.

38:39But Ovitz, if it was Ovitz, might have been another person, had dinner with the director and his wife and went to the house, and the driveway was ripped up and was kind of damaged, and he got to the house, he was talking to the wife, and he noticed the driveway, and he said, oh, this is an incredible house you got and whatever, and what's your plan for it that they just got in this house? And she's like, yeah, but I've got to redo this driveway, in LA, it's notorious for being very expensive. And so Ovitz told her, I have these great contractors and they're going to do a project for my house, but I'm going to, um, I can push mine back six months.

39:17I'm going to get these guys to come and fix the driveway for you and I'll pay for it. If you can get him to do the movie. And she said, excuse me, you're doing this movie with Dustin Hoffman and just close the deal right there. And it It was all because this driveway was making his spouse insane and that was going to cost$200 ,000 to re-level it because they were in the Hollywood Hills. And he solved that problem for them. So this is very interesting. When we get back from this quick break, I want to hear all about your startup, how you're doing it, how you make money when we get back on This Week in Startups.

39:49You can't have an effective sales team without an effective and above all organized sales process. Trust me on this one. I've seen thousands of startups basically fail because they had messy, chaotic systems in the sales department. It's one of the biggest red flags there is. This Week in Startups, it's about helping founders. So I want to tell you about the tool we use to stay organized here on This Week in Startups. It's called Pipe Drive. They bring your entire sales process together in one clear, easy to understand and centralized space, giving you just one place to check for all the customers and deal information you need.

40:25I'm a big fan of data, right? Especially here at This Week in Startups. So teams that use Pipedrive close an average of three times more deals every month. It could be you. Join over 100 ,000 companies using Pipedrive. And when you use our link, you're gonna get a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment is needed. Just go to pipedrive.com slash twist to get started. That's pipedrive.com slash twist. All right, we're back. Twist in Tokyo. We're here for Founder University. One of the great joys of my life is helping people on the margins, my team and I at the Launch Fund, just helping founders start their companies.

41:04We're doing it in the U.S., we're doing it in Saudi Arabia, in Riyadh with Sanabul, and we're doing it here in Tokyo with Jetro, an incredible organization that really supports founders and does so many different accelerators and programs, and we're the latest to join the movement here in Tokyo in helping founders. If you want to learn more, go to tokyo.launch.co. We're going to be doing this again, but literally this is the first week that we're doing our 10-week program. What do we do in Founder University? We help founders get product market fit, build out their team, understand their first couple of customers.

41:37It's generally companies in year zero or year one, and we invest in some of them, and we build a deep relationship with them, although we don't have to. Sometimes they don't need money. They're doing so well. Okay, so you started a company higher, worked for Travis, two tours of duty. That was enough. Yeah. So, yeah, I worked with Travis, you know. For those of you listening to the audio, Sean goes, yeah. No, no, but really. And he raised a, yeah. I mean, he's intense. Yeah. But you now carry that intensity forward. Yeah? No, I'm all about it. Like, I really see myself as a builder as well. So I think for Cloud Kitchens, like, beginning was really cool because, like, small team, like, Travis was, I was on Travis's like interviews with like general managers that I was hiring for him around the world, got to work with him super closely.

42:25But like as the company grows, you're going to just get like layers and layers and layers. Right. Yeah, sure. So that became like just two years in Cloud Kitchens. I felt like, OK, it's becoming Uber again for me. Yeah. So this was in 2020 during COVID. I was comfortable, but I wanted to feel very uncomfortable. And so I was like, you know what? I'll leave Cloud Kitchens. I even left some, you know, like equity that was almost about the best. But yeah, I left. I still I'm I'm still a shareholder as well. But started 2020 with my co-founder. And, you know, like when I was at Uber, I was looking for like agencies that could support me.

43:02Right. Because I was hiring like 50 people in Japan, like by myself, like I need help. Right. So I was getting external, you know, support. And I didn't find a lot of recruiters in Japan that understood tech yet. at the time this was like 2015 right so it was really hard to find a few and then you know of course I ran into my co-founder he understood we worked together and then we were like yeah why don't we start our own thing right because like we bring like an in-house experience like we built uber we built cloud kitchens helped recruit in japan apac global and bring that agency side of things right so how we're different is like we mix the in-house the strategy that you know we have and the execution and the experience and then mix it with agency side right so now we work with a lot of these like you know we we brought asana to japan in 2021 2020 we did their japan launch and singapore launch we worked with figma pinterest we brought them all here right wow so with that because we we how we partner with them is like we will become your in-house recruiter but we will operate as an agency so they thought like they they saw the value in that right we're not just introducing candidates but we were like really hustling alongside these founders and and these management people right so we work with like a lot of startups ceos and personally for me like i like to work with companies that's like not well known in japan or like elsewhere right like so that's kind of like my personal passion because i get to work with the founder and ceo very closely i help them with their talent strategy hr recruiting whatever all that stuff but also fine like just go out in the market and just sell that company into the market because people like what is this company right and I spend a lot of time pitching and you know a lot of the startups what they would do is like they'll interview the candidate like let's say a founder oh there's a candidate let me interview and they grill them right but it's like the candidate doesn't even like it's not even sold on the opportunity yet right so I always tell my founders like hey spend if you like the profile spend 31 hour minute 60 minutes selling the company they want to hear from the founder right right and that helps these passive candidates to become more active right So a lot of these companies, like even Uber, when they came to Japan or wherever, they grilled them super hard.

45:13Even if it's like an outbound, hey, let's chat. I want to chat with you about Uber. Let's get on the chat. And they start asking questions. No, you got to sell the company first. Get them excited. Get them pumped. You want to transfer that enthusiasm to them. And then that makes it much easier to close and convert. Some candidates are like, they speak to a really nice startup. I didn't like how they rolled and just grilled me. I don't like this company. And they lose that opportunity. So that bedside manner, that, you know, the interview process is a major part of closing. Candidate experience.

45:52Like, it's really super important in Japan. I've seen a lot of great candidates fall out of the process because, like, they were taking, like, a week to schedule or, like, you know, they were, like, not updating them. And these small things. I mean well it kind of matters if you are not consistent you're not attractive you're not thoughtful during the recruiting process a really high-end candidate's going to say well what is it going to be like when I come work for you you're going to be even less responsive you're going to give me even less attention you're going to be even because now I'm in the building you're going to be on to the next one yeah so you you do want to feel special if you're making that big change Yeah, so candidate experience is like super important in Japan.

46:34So you got to like follow up, keep them updated, make them feel like they are wanted. Because they might just think like, oh, I'm not important. And there's another candidate they might want to hire and drop out of the process. What are some of the most intelligent tactical things you've seen a founder do to recruit talent? Oh, yeah. Like any weird anecdote that you can come up with. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, actually, like, well, I don't know if I can say this, but, like, this was during Cloud Kitchens as well. Like, you know, Travis. You can say it. It's okay. I'm going to do it, Travis. I really.

47:06I gave you permission. I really, like, again, I said Travis really puts recruiting number one, right? Yes. So, I mean, this is not, like, super strange or whatever, but he hosted, like, a global tour back in 2018. So, he was hosting in every major cities, like Beijing and, you know, Seoul, Shanghai, and he was trying to recruit. for Cloud Kitchens. Right. Right? So he would, like, he would ask his team to, like, hey, all the great profiles, let's invite them to a happy hour. And then Travis will show up. And he'll do, like, a happy hour, like, 30 minutes, 60 minutes happy hour and sell Cloud Kitchens to, like, an audience of 100 people.

47:42Great people. And then they'll apply after. Wow. He did this tour. And I missed that leg by, like, one month. But, like, they did a private jet tour. So a lot of my, like, colleagues, like, they were on the private jet with Travis going around these cities. If I joined a month earlier, I could have done that. But I actually met Travis in Seoul, like the event. And then, yeah, saw that happen. And so that was a really great strategy, like founder taking time to like recruit A-level talent and just mingling with them and interacting with them. It really is interesting. Somebody told me when I was talking to somebody about parenting and they had particularly great kids that had come out really well.

48:21And I said, what's the secret? And he said, oh, do you know how kids spell love? And I said, no, tell me, because I know it's not LLVE. There's some insight here. And he said, T-I-M-E. And so, yeah, don't cry, everybody. But that's how kids spell love. Now, if you're talking about a family and a team, and you're building a team, the founder, the most precious resource they have is time. Giving and spending that time is how you show love. It's how you show respect, right? And in an adult context, it would be more like respect and honor. Just talking about time, like as a founder myself, also like, you know, it's been like six years in entrepreneurship and I'm always in my office, like hustling and just working.

49:08But I, like this was last year, actually I was thinking and I was like, why am I hustling so hard? Why am I like trying to outwork everyone? Like why am I just in the office all day, right? What am I working for? And I was trying to find my why. Right. And my why was like my family. But then am I spending time with them? Like my son is four years old, right? Right. And he's only this young once. So as a founder, I kind of like, okay, I made a rule like when he's home, two hours after school, I'm going to spend as much time as I can with him. Yeah. And my family. But then after that, I'm going to go hustle.

49:40Well, this is another tip I have for you. it's not the quantity of time it's the quality of the time and so many parents are at the park with their kids and they're playing candy crush or they're texting their friends or in the group chat and really it's can you put this away and can you be present I can tell you like just 30 minutes present with a child doing an activity or going skiing for two hours any of that like just really being present, man, it really matters, I think. And then the other thing I've told founders is, well, if you're doing this for your family and you're going to create a better future for them and they get to see their parent, their mother, their father, whoever it is, both working really hard and being productive in the world, that's what makes great adults out of those kids because they have a model.

50:33My father, my mother worked hard. They worked hard. They cared about us. I saw them on a Saturday, take care of us, go to the office for two hours, take a business call, then cook us dinner. Wow. They were hardworking. And there's a whole generation maybe who is less hardworking and resilient. But if you teach them to be entrepreneurs and you teach them to be resilient, you teach them to have a work ethic, that's the most beautiful thing I think you can do for kids, especially in the age of AI, especially in an age where maybe their futures are uncertain. All right, listen, if anybody's hiring in APAC or even in America coming here, global everywhere, go to HireSearch.com.

51:16Show thank you for sharing so many tactical lessons with us. You did a great job on your first This Week in Startups experience. Let's give them a big round of applause. Thank you. Thank you. And let me say thank you to my team working really hard, Bianca, Lon, Ricky I think that's everybody from my team who came all of our mentors Will Barnes Amanda such a great team here making this amazing experience all of our partners at JETRO who have been working hard with us for months to bring this together and for the companies in our first cohort of Founder University here in Japan do the work and work harder okay that's my advice for you work harder all right we'll see you next time bye thank you

52:02Thank you.