The $10M+ Bet on a Beanie That Reads Your Brain | Sabi & the Future of BCI | E2282

24:55Number one, your sleep. Number two, nutrition. Number three, working out, exercise. So sleep, nutrition, exercise, right? Those are obvious pillars of being healthy as a person. I'm going to give you two more. Meditation and socialization. Meditation, you just pop out the Calm app, shout out to Calm, and just meditate. 10 minutes, five minutes, 50 minutes, doesn't matter. Any amount of meditation will reground you. And then five, socialization. Invite three friends to dinner, open up a bottle of wine, whatever you're into, maybe 420, no judgments along, whatever, blunt rotation, and just enjoy life a little bit and socialization.

25:36Anytime you're feeling out of sorts, take J. Cal's Big Five, try to hit all five in one day. It's not as easy as you think. No, not really. If you get - Nutrition is the hard one for me, nutrition and working out. I could do the other three, but those two are hard. Here's an easy one for nutrition. Order a goddamn salad and then just eat a chicken breast. I mean, is it going to kill you? It's not. It's not. It's not going to kill you. I like some veggies. I don't mean to make it sound like it's that hard, but you know, sometimes you want a burger. Sometimes you want a burger. I mean, I love a burger, but here's what I do.

26:07This is my very simple nutrition system. One for you, two for your health. So you want the burger. That's great. The next day, just eat like an egg white omelet or something nice and then have a salad for lunch. One for two. Two for one, one for two. If you're three for three, that's a Gavone situation. Yeah. So just try to go from three, three. Am I right in Pulp Fiction, in Glorious Bastards? Is this the three or is this the three? This is the American three. This is the German three. I'm going with the German, okay? Yeah. Because the Germans are fit. So just try to get, you know, one, two, three here.

26:43All right. What's next on the show? All right. So up next, we're going to have Oliver join the show. So as you know, Jason, as you may recall, we are offering a 5K bounty and a guest spot on this very podcast that you're watching right now for anyone who manages to build a live AI sidebar. There are a bunch of rules. The main idea, we want four active AI personas watching the show, making commentary, adding important tidbits. The idea would be like an AI panel of producers that we could consult throughout the live stream that would listen in to everything we're talking about and make helpful suggestions.

27:21You are comparing it to Howard Stern's crew. He's got Robin Quivers there to read the news. He's got Fred Norris with the sound effects and background. He's got Gary Delabate, the producer that has all the context. He's got Jackie Martling and later Artie Lang is the cut up who's throwing out one liners and being funny. And so we were looking for how could you could we use AI to simulate this whole group without actually having all of these people in the studio? And a lot of people have submitted. All right, Oliver, this obviously presents a number of technical tasks. We had about a dozen people participate in this.

27:57So we've decided instead of just awarding a winner today, that we'll just put more work on your plate. Everybody knows you do the demos for This Week in AI. Go to thisweekinai.ai. Oliver is my protege. He's my protege. He's really great on air. He's making great demos. So in between the roundtable for This Week in AI, which I host, he does great demos, explain all the basics and even some intricate stuff that you can do with AI. So the application is really hard. In this case, I can identify what's easy and what's hard about this. What's easy about this is creating personas. Hey, you're a fact checker.

28:33take this transcript, look for facts. I mean, we do that all the time with the newsletter project you're working on. Fact-checking is easy. But fact-checking a live stream, usually our listeners will do that for us. You know, and they'll go to Claude or they'll go to ChatGPT or Grok. They'll ask a question. They'll cut and paste the answer back or they'll just tell us, oh, yeah, you know, here's the, these are the, you know, 10 highest market cap company, market cap companies from the 90s, whatever. But this is happening in real time. So what we're asking people to do is to take a live stream, take a live transcript, and then figure out what's the facts in it, and then check the facts in real time.

29:20Or what are the discussions, and then make a joke about the discussions. Is that the hard part here, Oliver? Yeah. I mean, so on a basic level, it's a pretty simple task. And what the Nodee gang has built has been pretty simple on a base level. What is it doing? Is it taking the speech to text? And then it's sending 50 words to Gemini, for example. And it's including the prompt of the persona that it made. So if it's a fact checker persona, it's taking the 50 words saying, hey, is there any facts that you can quickly find that don't line up here? or anything that Jason mentioned that we should correct him on.

30:02So on a simple level, that's pretty basic, I would say. You just have to connect an API for the analysis. So on the one that I set up, I was using Gemini. And then you can connect 11 Labs speech-to-text or OpenAI's Whisper speech-to-text. Or DeepGram. So there's a few different options. Or DeepGram. Armchair uses DeepGram, yeah. Big cloud providers may offer you cheap compute, but you'll end up paying the difference in engineering costs and hiring extra developers. You don't want to waste time configuring virtual networks, none of us do, or your access policies. You want your team building your product.

30:42So it's time to look at Render. Render is the all-in-one cloud platform for developers that allows you to deploy, scale, and secure your apps and agents with zero ops. Most cloud platforms ask you to split your focus between product and infrastructure, or they force you into platform constraints. You know you're going to grow in six months, but just connect your GitHub repo to Render and you are live. Web services, cron jobs, the whole stack in one platform. It's time to find out why 5 million developers are already using Render. 5 million. Go to render.com slash twist and apply for the Render startup program.

31:20You'll get anywhere from$500 to$100 ,000 in free credits depending on your stage and who your backers are. That's render.com slash twist. What is Deepgram? I've never heard of that. It's another option instead of 11 labs for a, or whisper for a speech to text. It makes transcripts basically. Got it. It works well. And if you remember the clipper I made, which takes clips from the show, what that did is it transcribed the whole show with timestamps using Deepgram and then used a tool that my OpenClaw had that would cut it up based on those timestamps. So DeepGram is great. But the issue that we've ran into specifically for all three of the co-hosts that we've tested is that it has limited context, which means that specifically for mine, which is the pod commentators, every 100 words, it would send to Gemini to get the breakdown.

32:20And what that does is it just has the 100 words. It doesn't have the full context of, you know, the whole topic we're talking about. Got it. And that leads to is, yeah. So here's what I think we might want to do just for the fairness of the context. Go ahead, Lon, give your comment. I was just going to say, I feel like there's really two levers so far that differentiate the quality of the products, at least the 12 to 13 I've been through so far. One is ease of use. Some of them, it's a URL. It's instantaneous. It starts working right away. others you gotta massage it you gotta work with it you gotta set stuff up yourself uh that's that's sort of what and then two is the quality of the personas as you'll see a lot of them the personas are all pretty similar they're making kind of similar comments and then some of them have done a really good job differentiating where it's like this is the troll this is the fact check and they're giving better quality so like i feel like that's where a lot of the variability is coming All right.

33:16So listen, this is a contest. So it's, you know, and I just kind of threw it out there. It's my money. So ultimately I'll decide with the council of you two guys and the rest of the team. Sure. But I think in fairness, what matters most, the high order bet is, is it doing great fact checking? Is it doing great trolling? And is it doing great jokes? Those are three very different things, right? Those are the three personas that I think matter the most. The fact checker, who's just giving facts. The trolling, who's just roasting you, et cetera. Being cynical, being snarky. Scenic. Okay, let's call it the cynic.

33:57Or no, I think the roast master is even better. Well, I mean, a lot of them have gone with - Or no, maybe the cynic is better. The troll is what a lot of them are using because that's what we've sort of described it as. But what would you say, Lon, then? Is it the cynic? What would have the most overall value for the show, This Week in Startups, All In, whatever. The cynic, the troll, or the roast master? I like cynic the best because I feel like that's a clear role. Like a troll is just, it's on a negative connotation. They're just there to disrupt. A cynic is a helpful thing to have on a show like this because they're exactly like what you were doing for Sabi.

34:30Like somebody to sit there and be like, can this really work challenging the frame? All right. So let's keep it simple. I think the joke and the troll thing is very hard to do because, So let's take those off the table and let's narrow the contest down to the fact checker and the cynic. Okay. Because those two, I think, would have the most valuable, would be most valuable to us. Yes. We'll let everybody in the chat room know we're reshaping it in some. But there are people still. Because I think we've made the mission too big with four personas. It's challenging. And, you know, like, well, as you'll see, if we show some of these off, some of them, the differentiation is not really there.

35:10It's just a lot of commentary. It's not very personality driven. I just want to make it easier to judge the quality, Oliver. So I just think in judging the quality, ease of use of the product. So the fit and finish of the project and then the quality of the output. Those two would be the weights we would use. Is there any weight I'm missing here, Oliver, in terms of picking a winner and being fair about it? And I could pick two winners and split it. You know, it's my money. I can do whatever I want here. This is a rolling bounty here. I think those two things are great, but I also just want to give two specifics that Lana and I found that I think would really help a lot of the submissions, which are speed.

35:49How could you increase the speed? So if we're talking about a subject, how quickly is it going to give us the notes? So in our Slack channel, it's me listening live and like quick type as fast as I can. Like, oh, Jason, what about this? Jason, what about this? also in the model in the one that i tested it would write something that was hard to read and i wasn't sure what it was talking about if that makes sense so yeah you got it's got a in one of the ones that lawn has is it actually has the transcript and then the commentary one of the submissions yeah what what our armchair our what armchair did a really good job is it highlights the section of the transcript that the commentary is about so you can sign immediately oh, the troll is picking on this thing Jason said.

36:33Oh, the fact check is about this thing Lon said right here. Okay, so this speaks to the fit and finish of the product, which is to say for this to be useful to the host of the show or the audience, because I think this serves two roles. One, I could run this privately and just see when I'm on Megyn Kelly what facts she's getting right, what facts she's getting wrong, and I could be challenging her on a fact and say like, okay, is that actually true? And then I could go look at it, which by the way, everybody's doing right now. There was a famous Larry Summers episode of All In where he claimed, I think he said, Chumoff's looking stuff up or whatever.

37:12That's kind of all fair and love and war now in terms of a podcast. People are looking up stuff in real time. So let's go into our demos here. So we always like to demo or die. Who's gonna lead the demos? I'm actually, I started sharing already. This is Armchair, the one of the first ones that we set up. Okay. It is by, I'm looking up his name right here. Mark Kolbrugia said this. I believe that's that. And as you can see, this is what I really liked about it. It's highlighted this block of what we're talking about. You know, you're more specific here. So that the audience listening to sports guests, please.

37:46The quote here is, as you said, there was a famous Larry Summers episode of All In where he claimed that Chamath was looking stuff up. It's highlighted that. And then Gary, their producer with content. Oh, we're using this right now? Yep, this is live. I'm doing this live. Gary says in April 2025, All In had a tariff debate with Summers and Chamath Sacks using Grok Chat GPT live per Reddit Buzz. They couldn't confirm whether Chamath was actually looking stuff up. And then here a little later, I mentioned Mark Kolbruga. And Gary says, yes, he found it. Mark created Armchair. He found his URL. He corrected me on the spelling.

38:26Wow. Yeah. So you can see it's actually it's working live. And let me let me try using this now. This is incredible. Holy cow. Let me do this right now. Let's do it based on a political topic. I'll do a political topic right now. uh obviously we know there was a an incident at the white house correspondence dinner this weekend and the buzz online was which side of the island has the most extremist is it the right with the oath keepers and the proud boys and what happened on january 6th where there was violence at the capitol or does the left have the violence problem with the recent new york times podcast where they They were talking about soft murder or something, and they were talking about micro-looting and stealing from the Louvre.

39:18And then we've had the three assassination attempts, including this weekend, on President Trump, all from left mentally ill. I think you've got to be mentally ill to do an assassination. So I'm curious, of these instances, I mentioned a handful of them, but if you were to take political violence in the last 20 years. I'm curious which side would have the most notable actual violent behavior in the market, the Democrats or the Republicans? All right. So as you can see, I spoke slowly, by the way, Lon. Yeah. And I gave the details as best I could. And that might be how you would hear me tee it up on all in.

39:58Yeah, not too different. So Gary confirmed the shooting April 25th, 2026 at the White House Correspondents Dinner at the Washington Hilton. Gunman breached checkpoint, fired shots. Trump and officials evacuated unharmed. It even named suspect Cole Thomas Allen was arrested. And it gave citations. It gave you the Wikipedia citation for the event. Yeah. And then the troll said, your framing assumes January 6th defines right wing extremism, but you missed Antifa riots, the 2020s, two billion in insured damages, campus cancellations. The troll says your selective memory isn't data. And then the troll Hold on.

40:35Pause there for a second, Lon. I didn't bring up Antifa. That wasn't on the top of my head because we haven't had an Antifa situation in a little while. But during BLM riots on campuses, there was a lot of Antifa violence. I think when Biden was in office or maybe the first term, I can't remember all the things that were ascribed specifically to Antifa, but Antifa is a known violent agitator. So that's great. That helped me. Yeah. So I mean, and as we keep going, the troll and Gary, they seem to be more active. I think there are other personas in here, but we're hearing a lot from the troll and Gary, the producer.

41:09But yeah, here's another one. It confirmed you were talking about that April 22nd New York Times podcast with Gia Tolentino, Hassan Piker, and Nadja Spiegelman. It mentioned micro-looting, the Louvre theft, social murder, and three more links that you could click to check out. This is so great. I mean, I'll tell you why this is great for me. I'm frequently saying during the show. Hey, producers, get me this piece of information. You are? Because I can't remember everything. No one person can. Maybe Ben Shapiro, but he does monologues. So I suspect, you know, he's so good at debating. He's got such a narrow focus.

41:48Ben Shapiro is so good at, you know, doing these that he's written a really great script for himself. Like he's a monologuer. So monologuers get to practice their monologue, take four or five takes. I'm live. You don't get four or five takes, right? So this would be very helpful for people who are alive. Just to remember, I don't know who the other co-hosts were on that New York Times podcast. This would have filled me in here. Correct. This is very impressive, by the way. I think, I mean, for me personally, we were originally thinking we were going to pick a winner. So far, Armchair is my pick for the winner.

42:21It's the best job of actually adding helpful context in the personas that we defined. I want this, by the way, as a Zoom plugin or ODBC on my desktop. Yeah. So Oliver, is that possible for me to set this up and just have it running when I'm on a Zoom call with a founder or I'm on a podcast, whatever I'm on, somebody else's podcast? Can I have this just running and using the Zoom stream? How does it grab the stream? It's just on a technical basis. I can share my screen here. And this is actually how the project that I looked at is built. So this is a different one. Of course, this is not armchair.

43:01It's called pod commentators. I also think it's called cast side, multiple names here. But you can see I'm looking at the zoom through my Chrome browser window, and I'm streaming into pod commentators. So I can see what I would see in my zoom window. and also it's popping up on, and I'm also getting takes from Rex, the cynical commentator popping up on the kind of side of the screen. So I can see. Is that through Zoom or is that a plugin? How is that? Oh, it's a browser window. So yeah, it's all through your browser. You run the Zoom in a tab on your browser and then you link these tools to that tab and it just listens in and runs it live.

43:45Incredible. It is incredible. incredible both of these are very strong contenders um you know i have a lot of edits here but man i am just shocked at what you can get done with a bounty contest these two are very impressive we got one more for the third and then we're gonna give just so we're gonna just so we're fair because i'm literally gonna cut this five thousand dollar check and i might give it you know three k to one person and then two honorable mentions for one k each i may give five to one person but i think we should give everybody the ability to do two iterations because I don't want to drag this out and be unfair.

44:20But since we didn't have any rules, I want to be clear because I'm a man of my word. If I'm going to give$5 ,000 and I said I would pay$5 ,000 for this, I want to pay the$5 ,000. But I want it to be my spec. Here's my spec. I want to be able to run this either on a public stream or I want to be able to run it privately when I'm on a Zoom. Okay, very simple. Either way. And then I'll narrow it down to, I just need, I don't need four personas. I need one persona I'll take two personas, a fact checker with citations, facts, and then a cynic. I'll take a cynic. I'll take a fact checker. So I'm cutting that down by half.

44:54You don't have to try to get the jokes right. That's my job. That's on me a lot. I just want real-time fact checking and real-time cynic, you know, like giving me the other side of it. I love the idea of the transcript being shown and the addition. I think that's key because that allows me to be scrolling up and down. So if the guest was talking or if I was being interviewed, I'm being asked my next question, I can zoom up and down and say, oh, yeah, you know, in that previous answer I gave, I mentioned this podcast. It was Sasan Piker and Gia and this person, one for the New Yorker. Gia works for the New Yorker and this person works for the New York Times.

45:27So I want to make sure I get my facts checked. Exactly. So that real-time fact checking is so incredible. Okay. The possibilities are, I think, could go a little further even here. as these models have bigger context windows, we can feed in our full docket and it can say, hey, this guest posted about this on X that we already have in the docket and it can connect there. Okay, yeah, that could be in its memory. Yeah, okay. I don't want to be unfair and make it a never ending. I don't want to keep moving the goalposts, but since, and I didn't think anybody would build this. I just said it. Hey, you know, if somebody builds this, I'll give them 5K.

46:02I didn't think 15 people would come out here. So now I've got to do a little cleanup work. For the next bounty, we're going to announce our bounties with a very specific process. So we're going to do this two more weeks in a row. This is incredibly exciting. We're going to do two more weeks in a row. So maybe next Friday and then the Friday after. This way people have essentially three weeks of refinement. So today's Monday, April 27th. So we'll do May 1st. Well, that's this Friday. That's right. May 1st is this Friday. Then May 8th is the next Friday. And then May 15th is the Friday after that.

46:35Okay. So May 8th is the second week of it will be the second check in. And then the final winner will be whatever you get done for the 15th. Fair enough. I think that's fair. Do you want to do you want to check out number three? We've got Patrick. Please give me number three. All right. Here's here's number three. I'm going to flip over to the tab right now. Sidecast, maybe it's called. You could see I've already been filling in the transcript and the agents are on their way. Now, my one comment here, it works amazingly. This was no setup. You just go to this URL and I'm just, it's working all on its own.

47:08The one, the one negative. This is running right now or this is running on a previous episode. This is running right now. You can see it's, it's, it's transcribing us live right down there. The one back, the one backdrop of this one or drawback, all the personalities are pretty similar. They're all very snarky. It's sort of like having four trolls watching the show. I think that's the easiest thing to correct for though. So just again, for whoever produced this one, what's the name of this one? BMD Pat, I believe is what he's calling it. This was Patrick Hughes, our viewer. Fantastic. Can you scroll back to the political violence discussion?

47:47I think I started it after the political violence discussion. Oh, so you actually fired this up. Okay. I fired this up, but anyone can go to bmdpat.com slash pod and check it out. This is amazing. Fact checking and cynic. We're going to narrow it down to those two. We're going to put a Notion link in the enhanced show notes for today's show in the description on YouTube about the contest. So there'll be a contest page with the rules, the dates. So if you're listening to this and you want to join, you can join now and you can just beat everybody. But go ahead and join. If you don't want the prize, you can donate it to charity.

48:23You pick the charity as long as it's not something crazy and offensive. And the person gets to come on the show and get their flowers. We will give the Twist Cup to somebody on the show. There'll be some sort of Twist Cup. The Twist-ovation prize. Twist-ovation, yes. We'll come up with it. We'll do like a Twist Bounty. Twist Bounty 1 will be done. So we're going to put that in the links, and we'll link to all the existing submissions. This is fantastic. I'm going to announce another contest. Right now? I'm going to announce another one. This is inspiring to me. I think the audience is going to love this as well, because it shows what the tools can do.

49:01And this is adjacent. I own the domain name annotated.com. I had talked publicly that I'm looking for a developer or a team. I'm going to narrow the scopes. I want this person to actually put this in the world for all of us to use. I want an annotation tool. This tool is a sidebar Chrome extension. It allows you, if you go to annotated, to create an account. account i don't know log in with whatever service you want x and google i think are like probably the two big ones and x is important for a reason then you put in a url or it uses whatever page you're on so if you're on the new york times and the story comes out you know or a podcast comes out or a youtube page so the two examples i'd like to see is a new story and a youtube page specifically you pick the youtube page you say it asks you where do you want to start where do you want to end.

49:56You say one minute in and out at three minutes. It takes that, pulls the transcript, pulls the video, makes a landing page, annotated.com slash lawns, L-O-N-S slash, you know, YouTube video that, you know, like a intelligent title. It then puts the clip on that landing page. We rip the clip because it's fair use. Maximum clip size is, let's make it 90 seconds. That would be fair use. 90 seconds is your maximum clip size. And it downgrades it to a smaller file size, right? So make it like, I don't know, 240 pixels, not even 480. So we're not stealing content. We're using fair use. And you can look up fair use.

50:41Fair use would be, I'm taking a small amount, I'm not using in the original resolution, I'm not interfering. But you have to write a commentary on it. And the commentary has to be a certain length. So either text or audio, whatever, but I just think text is fine. So you comment on it. And then there's a button that says, you know, I'm going to do a fair use claim, or, you know, I believe you're stealing the content, and then we have to make a determination if it's fair use or not. You can't just use it to clip and steal. Or you take a New York Times story, and you say, clip this section. You highlight a section, you say clip, and then you put your commentary on it.

51:16It links back to the original, it gives credit to the source, maybe it takes a screenshot. In other words, we don't want to screw the person's original content it is. We just want to let you annotate somebody's original content. That's it. That's the contest. It has to be a live service. So you can make whatever you want right now. Is it like a social network? Like the idea is I have a feed and I'm looking at other people's annotations. That's the sort of a community. The annotations will be saved based on account. You can do an anonymous annotation and... You know what it reminds me of, Jason, in a weird way.

51:52Do you remember delicious? It is like a delicious, like a bookmark. It's an enhanced multimedia delicious. Correct. Yeah. And yes, you have a stream of everything you've done. Right. So that would be delicious. You would bookmark things that you wanted to read, but I could check out somebody else's bookmarks. And on the annotated.com homepage, the annotated.com homepage is just download the sidebar. And on the thing, it just says, it just gives like a feed of whoever posted last, and then you can vote them up and down, and you can comment under somebody else's. So when you say this section, yeah, but under your section where you're fact-checking the New York Times or you're taking a Ben Shapiro clip and you're arguing the other side of it from his, oh, and you can do a podcast too.

52:39So audio, video, or text. Then you do the audio of the Ben Shapiro thing. I can comment under yours. So it has thread comments underneath it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that would be the idea. over time is people like a leaderboard, I think would be really cool. Like here are the 10 most annotated pieces of media. Anyway, there's a bunch of ideas. I'll put this up for five grand, $5 ,000. Another five grand? The stack I just gave. That's two valetines. We'll do it over. We'll do it. Yeah. It's five dime skis. I own the rights to it. So if you make it, I own it. That's it. Cause I'm going to make this an actual public service, but I might hire you for 5k a month to maintain it for me.

53:16I have to come up with the business model eventually, but I might pay you to if you're good at this. But anyway, this will be like show your work. Worst case scenario, you make 5K. And worst case scenario for me is I throw it away and I burn 5K. Best case scenario, I hire you or I partner with you to make it a commercial service. This is what I always dream to building because a lot of times, I don't know if you ever had this, Oliver, you're like, that's BS or that's brilliant. And I want to clip it and then comment on it in fair use. That's the key. It has to be fair use. So you can't take the whole New York Times story.

53:51Let's set each clip from text. Let's keep audio and video clips are 90 seconds or less. Text clips, what would you say, Lon? I mean, I think if you're taking - A hundred words? Yeah, I was going to say 75 to a hundred words. Beyond that, you're sort of pulling a big chunk of the article. But a hundred words is like - Let's go with a hundred words. Two sentences, three sentences that stand out to you particularly. If you want to do more than a hundred, you just clip the next hundred. And then you could thread that with the previous one. Yeah. So let's say you wanted to go through a New York Times article and correct five points.

54:31It's just a hundred words at a time. Yeah. Or you could just take one - And the person still has to go to the New York Times to read the full story. I mean, that's what I was going to say, is you could take the most offending sentence, annotate that, and then just add your comments about the entire article. People would still be able to get back to the article. Correct. And always a link to the original source. Oliver, what do you think of this contest? You like this one? Yeah, I think linking back to the original content, people love to see the top stories, and I love it. I'm excited to get my clipper working for me, reviewing those clips, having a take and dropping in my take.

55:04Or Oliver's going to work Sunday and he's going to just drop this and he's going to take the 5K. I'll just take what I'm doing after this call is I'm taking this transcript saying make all of Jason's ideas and I'm entering the competition. There it is. Perfect. Yeah, you just tell your agent go make this. Jake Al and make him what he wants. Alright everybody, great job. Oliver, great job. Look in the show notes for Bounty 1. Bounty 1 is the real-time fact checker cynic bounty two is annotated so now we have two bounties we'll have a bounty page this is going to be a reoccurring thing here on the show bounties for everybody all right everybody it's been another amazing episode of twist bye bye