The rise of AutoGPTs and AI anxieties with Sunny Madra and Vinny Lingham | E1720

0:29All right, everybody. speed is creating massive anxiety with developers and artists, because how quickly whatever they build gets replaced and automated by the AI. We're also going to talk about something incredibly important, the emergence of auto GPT is what is an auto GPT? Well, it's an agent, it's something you set up for a language model to work on, but then you automate it so it never stops working on it and it gets better and better at the task. So we're going to talk about how this is going to change everything in AI. It's not just you having a chat. It's chats occurring and research occurring in the clouds with an automated agent and the results coming back and then triggering other AIs to do things for you.

1:13This is kind of singularity-esque in a way. Then we're going to talk about what the winning business models will be in general of AI and where the opportunities are for you as a founder or a capital allocator placing bets. Finally, since this used to be the crypto roundtable with Vinny Lingham and Sandeep Madra. We're going to touch on some crypto, including what's going on Bitcoin? Why did it double in value? Is it because of Balaji's million dollar bet? Or is it because the stock market's going up? Or maybe we're not in a recession, or people are concerned we're going to go into a depression?

1:43Why is it that it's doubled? And then what will Bitcoin be trading at by the end of the year? Vinny has a prediction, and he's 75 % confident of his prediction. So I want you to listen to hear his prediction. It's going to be a great show. Please, the love of God, stick with us. This Week in Startups is brought to you by Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website. Go to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code twist to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business.

2:21Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. Twist listeners can get$1 ,000 off for a limited time at vanta.com slash twist and Crowdbotics. Great ideas can change the world and Crowdbotics is the fastest way to turn those ideas into code. Get a free scoping session for your next big app idea at crowdbotics.com slash twist. All right, everybody, welcome back to this week in startups it's time for our crypto slash a roundtable with two of the smartest technologists in our industry with us again sunny sandeep madra my good friend and another great friend looking really dope in his amber sun glasses reading glasses Vinny Lingham what's going on with those glasses Vinny?

3:17so I've changed the lighting in my office yeah and I've got this bright light shining you can probably see it there in my eyes but I look better on camera and it makes things look good so do you? well it's very grainy otherwise right so the lighting is pretty bad and then I had this like weird light coming through the middle yeah so I turn the lights in the office off and this looks better now but those are those glasses that take out like a certain type of light from your screen at night Blue light pluses, yeah. Oh, you got blue blockers. Yeah. Remember blue blockers from the infomercials? Those commercials, the infomercials.

3:52Bono still wears them. I mean, it's - Bono still wears them, right? Yeah. So you are the Crypto Bono. We'll call you Crypto Bono. Oh, I need to go register that name. Yeah, Crypto Bono. All right, listen. Everybody knows Sonny is the co-founder of Definitive Intelligence, who had a really special meeting this week. I saw it on the group chat, a very special meeting. We won't say with who. that was a very very impressive meeting you landed huh it was it was cool it was really cool it's a legend you met with a legend and i saw the image a legend who i won't say who it is but who has been on this very program all right let's keep moving here you have to guess from the 1700 people who've been on this podcast in 12 years viddy of course is the co-founder of civic a startup that crips identity information on the blockchain and he started the amazing weight room go to weightroom.com and uh yeah great for enterprise uh folks who are looking to do awesome meetings in the new remote world so we got the plugs out of the way you know i have been watching this i can leave now right you got the plug that's it uh you are you are now we have now you have to earn the plug by giving us your knowledge i saw auto gpt go by my twitter feed the last 48 hours and some other studies there was a great stanford study um that i talked about yesterday on this week in startups essentially the pace let's start with that the pace of ai right now can you remember a time in your career sunny when you saw technology moving this quickly and but also with user adoption this quick.

5:40So take a moment to think about that XY axis users adopting it and playing with it. And the technology advancing at this fast of a clip. When's the last time we saw something like this? I have a couple of ideas, but for you, what do you think? It's the fastest J. Cal, being a technologist building, um, you know, we are not at the singularity yet, but we are, you know, approaching it quickly. What is starting to happen to increase the pace is, so we've all had this notion about a 10 X engineer, right? Jake, how are you familiar with this, right? Vinny, it's, it's an, you know, I'm going to rewind back a little bit just to give some context here.

6:27So the notion in, in particularly in software engineering is that it's one of the very few practices that, in terms of human productivity, where one person can be 10 times more productive. If I create some, then the person beside them. So if you think about in the context of a factory, if you and I are working in a factory, I can't probably make 10 times more widgets than you. It's like the limits of speed of my hands and the supply chain and everything else. But in software engineering, it was like sort of the first time we were seen in a career, in a practice, in an area, that one person can be 10 times more productive than the person beside them.

7:02and that could be through their ingenuity of how they write code or the tools they use and so this has been something that you know we all search for in our co-founders or you know engineers that join our businesses is to find these 10x engineers would that be a fair definition jaco i would say that's extremely accurate and there are laws of physics so if we were both worked in a ford factory putting tires and lug nuts onto a car you know there's a there's a physics thing here it doesn't matter how strong fast nimble you are you might be 10 or 20 faster but you wouldn't be a thousand percent faster aka 10x 10x yes exactly but in software if i am you know i have more ingenuity in how i design an algorithm or how i leverage a set of tools i can be so my productivity could be 10 times more code because i'm using tools my my my particular algorithm could run 10 times faster than yours because I've written it in a different, more unique way.

8:03And so we can see that. And we've seen that over the years. Now, what's starting to happen is engineers are starting to use AI tools. They could be co-pilots, they could be, you know, open AI and open AI is powering out of these co-pilots as well. And this is allowing for more engineers to achieve the 10x improvement. And my belief is, and I'm seeing this, you know, hands on as well, is that the teams that are leveraging these tools, whether it's GitHub Copilot, whether it's OpenAI for debugging, whether it's, you know, a whole new set of tools in and around, you know, you use a Notion AI plugin, those teams are starting to achieve a 10x across their entire engineering base.

8:50And this is why we're starting to see a huge acceleration, especially from ai companies because they're natively building ai things and they're using ai themselves to make themselves faster and so this is something that is happening to many more people so the average engineer the average software engineer is now maybe they don't hit 10x but they hit five or six or seven because of autocomplete so if you just want to imagine this as a civilian when you're using iMessage autocomplete where it just guesses the next word or gmails which guesses two or three words now all of a sudden you know imagine that for a developer where it does two or three lines of code ahead or a paragraph of code that's what developers are experiencing on a day-to-day basis yes yeah i want to share something it's a really cool example there was a game a couple years ago nick if you can pull this up i was called flappy bird and this game was interesting because the founder of or you know the creator pulled flappy bird from the app store because he said it was too addictive this gentleman in this medium article uh we can share the link to everyone recreated flappy bird yes including the graphics including all the code in one hour okay so that was a game what do you think the game originally took to code probably a week let's say a week to you know a week to be doing a week and a month 100 hours whatever exactly something along hundreds of hours yeah let's give it that well this is a totally uh yeah game changer and they were able to just describe this to the ai and have it build the code etc exactly they described the graphics they wanted And they described the, you know, controls that they wanted to implement.

10:45And, you know, they leveraged, you know, the unity underneath it. And that example and that link there, you know, you can follow it yourself, Jay Cal. And I bet you've probably never written a video game from start to scratch. No. But if you follow those instructions. I haven't written code in 30 years, yeah. Yeah. But if you follow those instructions, you too could have your own version of Flappy Bird in one hour. It's incredible. And so imagine, you know, this is someone just using an external set of tools. Imagine you're a native AI company and you're using the tools for your, you know, to accelerate yourself.

11:18And so that's why the pace is starting to move incredibly quickly. Okay, we're about to announce the winner of our second Show Us Your Space competition. Elise runs a digital sports nutrition business built on Squarespace called Whoa Sports Nutrition. You can go check it out at w o h e sports nutrition.com w o h e sports nutrition.com. Congrats, Elise, you're going to enjoy$1 ,000 in Squarespace credits. And if you want to be an amazing entrepreneur like Elise, or start your side project or anything in between Squarespace is how you do it from personal projects to giant tech startups, anything can now be built on Squarespace.

11:59We love it so much. We use it for remote demo day and many other projects. Here are some amazing Squarespace features that founders love. You're going to get unlimited e-commerce, templates, analytics, inventory management, all of that stuff built in, SEO, 24-hour, seven-day-a-week customer support. Everything just works inside of Squarespace. And of course, it's optimized for mobile. You know about the gorgeous templates, but you can also sell content there, courses, et cetera, appointments, and save the 15 % tax that other platforms are taking from you. That's your money. Don't give it to a platform.

12:33Use Squarespace instead. Squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code twist to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. We love you, Squarespace. And they hold the belt here at This Week in Startups for our longest running partner. Thank you so much for supporting This Week in Startups and our mission to support founders and inspire innovation so what's happened is uh vinnie the people who are working on ai are the first to leverage the gains of ai which then leverage the gains of ai which then makes ai advance even faster so in a way it's like we took we took humans working in the factory building robots or robotic suits like in uh this movie um edge of tomorrow uh which i watched again really stands up by the way i watched it with my seven year olds they loved it yeah so imagine you're like building edge of tomorrow robot suits you put the suit on and then you start building suits in a suit and that is in some ways like a singularity type event which is the first people to experience the gains here are going to be developers and they're going to put that of course into developing ai faster vinnie your thoughts on this pace can you think of another time technology if if this is the fastest do you agree it's the fastest i agree it's the fastest i think it's also what's the second fastest then what would be if we were to think about another moment in time crypto was um 2017 was crazy time uh it was a lot moving fast and i would put mobile apps in front of that, Vinny.

14:09That's what I was thinking. I was thinking the apps were... But mobile had a lot more of a longer run, right? So if you look at like instantaneously, when Bitcoin went from $2 ,000 to$20 ,000 over like three or four months, that was just crazy, right? Like it was a massive change. And mobile just took years to play out or even, you know, it wasn't in the sort of smaller time box. I will say the one thing we should definitely touch on and maybe speak about today is the psychological impact of this on everyone in the industry because it's not a simple oh everything's moving people are getting anxiety from how fast things are moving people can't catch up people can't keep up i have engineers i'm trying to you know it's like every day it's something new that they like they cannot get their heads around what they're doing in the sense that like you know what you do today could be invalidated tomorrow because now there's a better method to do it and all that work you've been doing for the past month or so to do is it's just been open source by all the ai is created like everything's moving fast this applies to ai artists uh people who are doing uh well you know coders engineers people using the products this stuff is moving so quickly in so many different directions my my fear is that the whole space gets highly fragmented and we and we get to the same point we're in with crypto crypto's biggest issue right now is there's no consolidation around a single or two or three chains there's dozens of chains that actually have decent tech.

15:33The entire ecosystem is hyper-fragmented. And that's the problem with crypto. That's one of the things that makes Bitcoin so powerful is that it's 40, 50 % of the entire crypto market. And the critical mass that it's got there makes it a juggernaut and everyone else is kind of playing for second place. Or you can argue Ethereum is there and so people are playing for third place. But the critical mass that you have in Bitcoin, it gives it that sort of power. The problem with AI right now is that the lead that open AI has can be eaten away at by all the other llamas that are coming out and everything else.

16:07It may be the Bitcoin of this sort of space for a while. I don't know. I'm just positing. I kind of take it slightly differently. I agree with you with the anxiety, but I try to calm the anxiety with the following analogy. when we first invented computers we had to literally give computers zeros and ones right so we had punch cards and those punch cards represented the zeros and ones and how the computers operated and uh jay college back in your day you remember this right um i know i it's interesting you bring up punch cards i remember when i went in 1988 when i was it went to fordham university in the in the fall they did have vax machines and the internet was running on mini computers as well as desktop computers had just started to have some emulation software to do it on desktops but it was mainly like you were on terminals vax terminals these kind of things so you know it's a punch card machine and there were punch cards in the laboratory at the computer center still there yeah 100 so we went from punch cards then people said oh you know what we gotta to we got to this is you know too too hard right you can't walk in with stacks and stacks of these things then we move to assembly right and so we oh we have this language that you know there's a compiler that that'll turn into the zeros and ones then we go higher to basic right we get the basic programming language and then we kind of work all the way up then we get c c plus plus and we got all the exotic languages right now what is the what is the programming language English no it's just English prompting in English and so we've just come all the way from zeros and ones all the way to English and this is 5GL AI is the 5th generation language we went from 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th AI is the 5GL and if you can get the team comfortable that they you know they can use English to accelerate themselves and get comfortable with that then I think that anxiety comes down because you switch your mindset to saying hey I don't have to write code for everything I can just explain this in English and leverage these tools to get me there that's not what I'm talking about Sonny I think anxiety comes in like people creators people building stuff are seeing replicants of what they're doing very quickly so something which takes someone a month or two months or six months to build let's say call it three months to build is you're the same way flappy bird was built in an hour the the pace of acceleration is giving creators this anxiety that if they don't build it right now quickly put it out there it someone's going to beat them to it and so the pace of development whether you know whether you're creating art or or project or code base or whatever is so quick that people are now having you know anxiety in the sense that like what's depressing in a way what is my existence yeah it's yeah it's I am seeing this firsthand because at inside.com, we have a vibrant newsletter business, makes millions of dollars a year.

19:12And the format I came up with even before Axios existed was read long stories and reduce them down to bullet points and rank the bullet points in order so that you get this quick summary. Yeah. And I implored everybody, go buy ChatGPT4 and start playing with it. I told all the writers. I'm talking about like 40, 50 writers. And I said, you know, it's 20 bucks. so it's a thousand bucks for the whole company just go go play with it and some of them had a really interesting experience when they took an article from financial times wall street journal whatever some paywall article dumped it in say give me the most important bullet points and it was 70 or 80 percent of what they would do and i said don't feel bad about it do it check the facts rewrite it polish it and then come up with insights so take the same amount of time three four hours to write a seven item newsletter and then just add the human touch to it and that kind of freed them but there was this existential dread moment uh which i think a lot of people are going to go through and developers let's face it they felt very special the last i don't know since existence it felt like once developers starting in the 80s when the pc came out it went from being you know like low level you know people in a laboratory somewhere who are underappreciated to rock stars bill gates steve jobs was all of a sudden developers were rock stars and i think that is a hard thing to think i spent all this time learning to play piano learning to sing and then somebody comes out with auto tune and they put some beat from a library collection in and they say give me a drum beat that's like this and a guitar solo that's like mark knoffler and all of a sudden my 30 years perfecting my instrument has been duplicated by a computer that's yeah that's jump out the window moment for some people but that's only if you're not willing to upgrade your skills right like the way i think about it is funny i no i don't i don't i don't i disagree it's not a skills issue even if you have the skills it's the marketplace we're dealing with right now has become you know i grew up in a small town maybe there was like 100 000 people in the town i was the best chess player in my state like the moment you go into a bigger world like when nationals and i'm not as good as anymore right like you feel inadequate it's the whole malcolm gladiable um outliers book right like you know people who so so so the problem right now is ai is such a global marketplace with hundreds of millions of people doing it how do you compete yeah you could build something that's that's the anxiety you build something for ai vinny and you spend two weeks building it you think you got the greatest idea ever and then it's a feature inside of exactly the next ai tool which is the same feeling we had going back to apps and i agree um with sunny i thought apps would be the answer we gave after this because those did move fast and there were people who made flashlight apps calculator apps weather apps yep all kinds of little apps and you were in the app business sunny and then you just watched as like apple and android were like oh yeah flashlight we should build that into the little control center oh weather well we'll build that too oh stock quotes we'll build that too oh news we'll build that too people used to have news apps there was a whole swath of news apps inside had one smarter news in asia uh flipboard and then also i was like yeah apple news boom we're done here and and that is depressing when you put a lot of work into building something it it is and look like i i i can i completely agree with you guys i'm you know trying to give the counterpoint to get people out there to keep innovating which is um what you can do in this world is is actually find those places of differentiation right and those those places of differentiation have become harder now so it's not just creating a ui anymore right because because that's been replaced by like, you know, we just saw, right?

23:17Write a few lines inside one of these AI tools and you'll do that. I think you have to think long and hard. And so I think if we think about a couple of businesses that have maybe something very defensible in this world, that's not as replicatable because of just a UI. So let's, let me, let me pose a couple of different examples and maybe this will help people think about it. Uber is not replaceable. You could, you could connect it to open AI. You can say, Hey, go call me a car and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, that API interacts with drivers and vehicles. You can't replace that in a few days.

23:49So you have to build something actually defensible. Elon talks about, hey, build something real. Instacart. There's a really, really good tweet that came out yesterday. Yeah, we should pull up this tweet. Yeah. Where someone asks exactly, right? GPT and the picture down below is really good if you can click onto that. So he goes, hey, I'd like you help buying groceries. here's a hundred bucks breakfast lunch dinner i'm obviously summarizing this um hopefully you can see it in the video it comes up with the meal plan it then subsequently uses the instacart plugin to do the order fills up his instacart with the ingredients and you're off to the races this is also defensible because it's not easy to replicate the instacart infrastructure right and so you know that's great a place where there will be some challenge the guy who just built this tool now okay yeah how does he monetize it affiliate revenue well there no no but now you can replicate it you can you can you can make 50 different versions of this which means this is something not of value in the world today it means it's something that's not doesn't have enough value exactly so his innovation is this basically up for being copied well well i i actually think it's slightly different i think open ai is becoming the apex aggregator right and what they're going going to do is like, you have to understand like what he did, he actually didn't build anything.

25:16That's why I'm trying to be very clear. He just put something inside a prompt and use the Instacart plugin. And so, uh, and, and that's the thing you have to really understand now. And so what you probably shouldn't be doing is building like a blue ribbon or something like that, because that's going to get displaced very quickly just by people's own preference with the apex aggregator in open ai interacting with these plugins with real api services right so you're saying you're saying that the instacarts of the world need to so so so basically the real world infrastructure providers because digital is easily copied need to basically make it so that ai can interface with them a lot more easily and we need people to create more real world interfaces via apis right we need to do that and differentiate it is i think there are jobs that we romanticize as humans and there are jobs that we uh you know uh marginalize and so if we were to look at the jobs you know we marginalize like a switchboard operator or like a film projectionist or you know a travel agent a toll booth operator anyone in farming before machinery secretaries uh hopefully that's not triggering language that will get me uh canceled we used everything called secretaries they were assistants um film developers right these did not feel like they were complicated artistic tasks but what we're getting on now putting aside this little you know prompt engineering to you know have your meal plan done you start getting into like hand-drawn animators um and you know what happened with pixar or music producers or just painters you know now like what why would you hire a painter to make a painting of yourself and wait three months and pay ten thousand dollars for a portrait in oil paint when you could see 20 of them in two minutes there's no doubt that like jobs are going to be disrupted with AI.

27:21It's unquestionable. We're talking about the emotional state, though. Why are we emotional about certain jobs? That's the interesting part. Again, let me go back to my point. My point wasn't to be emotional about the creative destruction process. Clay Christensen laid it out. I think it's very important that these jobs, if it can be automated, it should be automated. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who are participating in this ecosystem right now. this is like probably the most meritocratic I wouldn't say only meritocratic there's a lot of luck involved as well what takes off what doesn't you know adoption and stuff but the people who are contributing to the space right now in any way shape or form have essentially no abilities to build moats around their business and with the exception of what Sonny mentioned like the offline the barrier to defensibility is higher Vinny that's all right it was barrier to defensibility was you had to know how to code and that is now the buried defensibility.

28:18I think we announced it now. The competition pool is bigger now. So in other words, in a world where you were competing with 100 million engineers, you're now competing with 7 billion humans who can speak a language, you know, and type into a machine. Maybe it's 2 billion, 3 billion. So the competition is so much. I think that's great. No, it's great, but remember, capital is so scary. It's great for everybody except the people Vinny's talking about who are going through a bit of cognitive dissonance. Yeah. I was special in the world last year, and this year I'm no longer special. Exactly. And I think for developers to come to that conclusion, I'm no longer unique and special in the world, is like losing your Midas touch.

29:00It's like being a superhero, and all of a sudden they just put a kryptonite necklace around you, and you're like, wow, or everybody can fly, so I'm not Superman anymore. Listen, it's 2023. The macro picture is a little shaky. It's uneasy out there and tech is getting hit super hard. As such, you cannot afford to lose sales for silly stuff like not having your SOC 2 right now. If you are unsure about your SOC 2, you need to check out Vanta. Vanta makes it incredibly easy to get and renew your SOC 2. On average, Vanta customers are SOC 2 compliant in just two to four weeks. Compare that to three to five months without Vanta, huh?

29:39and they partner with over two dozen audit firms who have been trained to file SOC 2 reports directly within Vanta. This is a total no-brainer. A bunch of my portfolio founders have used Vanta and they've had amazing experiences. And if you don't have SOC 2 compliance, you can't close major customers. One major customer, that can be the difference between your startup thriving or going away. So get it done right now. Vanta's going to give you$1 ,000 off because you listened to this podcast. Think about it. $1 ,000 off. Vanta.com slash twist. You got to write that down. Put it in your notes. V-A-N-T-A dot com slash twist for$1 ,000 off your sock tube.

30:14Let's talk about AI artists for a second. Okay. So you have these artists who can't use a pencil or a piece of paper. They have no ability to mechanically draw things, but they have these beautiful visions and views of what things should look like. And they're now able to use these tools to create this. So something that they, you know, the disconnect, I think, is artists who had, you know, even physical limitations, right? You're an artist, you got injured, you're paralyzed, whatever. Now you can use this using voice prompts. You can create the art that you want to create using prompts and whatever else.

30:52So it's opened up a whole world. But what it has done is people who spend years refining their skills, their fine motor skills on painting and sketching and whatever, that's out the window right now for them because you can't really tell the difference between something which was which was sketched and something which was just produced by a machine and um and so so the question is just the question is this if an artist drew something by hand and then replicated the exact same piece of art using a machine which would have more value created by the artist of course no no but they're both one of one the same artist hand sketched something and then prompted a machine to build it and looked and let's assume it looked identical right yeah which one has more value if the original one is printed on like real paper i would have more value because it's more bespoke and unique in the world and the craftsmanship that went into it was higher but most people if you were going to put it on a t-shirt eventually or put it on a billboard nobody would care so i guess it depends on the person so you see the question is is it the motion of creating the art or is it the artist that has the value you know i always liked the i i think the proof that the person did this manually would for me uh that i knew they put the work into it increase the value of it but if it was just for a t-shirt or if it was just to be put on a poster i wouldn't care but let's just say it's a print let's just say there's two prints and the machine can i print versus the original go for different prices in art no no but let's say let's say there's a once-off print that the machine you have a printer that produces a once-off print and then you have an artist sketching it using pencil the you know you basically produce exactly the same two pieces of works two works of art just using two different ways of doing it the what i'm trying to sort of get to the bottom is are we doing and this is the machine did it 10 times faster okay and then the human so now are we gathering It's the same artist.

32:52It's the same output. Are we valuing the fact that the artist put 10 hours of their time into the one and one hour into the other? Where's the value coming from? We do this in a couple of places, Vinny. Think about farming, right? Farming before machinery. Today, and so, you know, obviously the same thing happened to millions of people as machinery came around. But today, to your analogy, you can go buy stuff at Costco, which is definitely coming from huge industrial farms, right? You can go get an apple or maybe a tomato. Let's use that, right? Or you can go get a tomato at your farmer's market who may have been grown in someone's backyard.

33:24And definitely you're going to pay four times more. But they're two different tomatoes. The moment you go eat farming, you have - No, they can be the exact same variant. But then you have yield issues, right? And then so they're using pesticides. The one may be organic. The other one isn't. They are indistinguishable in your example, but the effort put into it matters. for a person looking for calories or eating the tomato on a salad if they're indistinguishable they don't care and then for a person who is precious and cares about the process they much very much love the fact that you know this was uh hand shucked or hand picked and we literally have that when you go buy eggs you can get cage-free eggs you can get free-range chickens or you can get factory i guarantee you if i took the free range chicken and i gave it to tyler florence and said make a free range and then here's one that was not free range and here's a bunch of eggs make me an omelet that were cage free eggs versus regular eggs i guarantee you 99 out of 100 people wouldn't be able to tell the difference or care they would just go for the cheaper one so i think we have our answer like do i care if i'm playing flappy birds that's free because somebody made it in three hours or flappy birds for ten dollars and have to buy it because somebody put a thousand hours into it i'll take the three the thing that i think is most interesting that is not yet upon us is the ability to not just do these uh chat gpt searches uh you know one-off which i was doing by the way when i uh just to do a little call back here when we were talking about obsolete careers i said to chat gpt what are careers that have been totally replaced by technology and it gave me the first set and then i said hmm can you give me more artistic careers that were replaced by technology and i got that second list so less people think that i am so quick on the draw here that i can just rattle off these things i'm literally using chat gpt as a host of a podcast the world's greatest moderator has been augmented already and somebody did a tweet where they said you're a 10x moderator you're a 10x i'm a 10x moderator now but i mean somebody just did a tweet where they said build the agenda for all in next week using the stuff and sax was like oh look you know it did a cold open and everything of course it wasn't funny and you know what wasn't worth listening to but eventually who knows all right probably the most challenging thing i hear from founders is related to building either they aren't technical and they're searching for a technical co-founder or they can code but they're just spread way too thin this is one of the first major obstacles you're going to face as a founder and it can be discouraging right we all know that and when you're spread thin and you can't get the product velocity it's very frustrating you know what to do but you're just stuck in the execution phase.

36:18So here's the solution. Let Crowdbotics be your CTO as a service. And boom, just like that, you can focus on building awesome products and delighting your customers rather than wasting your time on infrastructure, planning, architecture, compliance, and the boring stuff. Crowdbotics also offers professional scoping to help you flesh out your project at the MVP stage and beyond. So cut out the hassle and get back to building that perfect product. When you think about Crowdbotics, I want you to think getting time back to focus on your product and customers, product drives everything so let the folks at crowdbotics show you how it works schedule a free scoping session and get your detailed build plan at crowdbotics.com slash twist that's crowd b-o-t-i-c-s.com slash twist so then the question becomes um automation so i need to get ideas every week for this podcast and for all in it would be great instead of having my producers go out there and do stuff and our producers we have producer gpt is one of our jokes here uh if i had a producer saying read the following top 100 tech twitter accounts uh pull the urls of the stories they're talking about summarize them across these 100 people and build a docket based and sort it based on the engagement the number of replies and likes to the tweets uh and the number of news outlets covering that story so hey there's been 30 people who covered this twitter story and there's 20 people who covered this chat gpt story and 10 who covered this microsoft story give me some sort of order for these uh that'd be an awesome thing to happen automatically so tell us about this auto gpt yeah well i was about to say uh great segue so you did an awesome job there moderator some value to being a moderator yeah world's greatest you're gonna have this within 30 to 60 days if If not, you can already do it right now.

38:16So what auto GPT, and there's a whole category around it, baby AGI, there's a few of these projects in the space. What they're really doing is they're taking the reasoning abilities of LLMs and they're adding the ability to chain them together with agents. And so what you do is at the high level, you describe a set of tasks. those set of tasks for an LLM alone can't be solved because of, you know, limitations of the LLM is not connected to the internet or it's, it's can only go back so far in history. But what these pro these projects have enabled is for the LLMs to give instruction to the agent, to go out to the internet, to go get the answers.

39:01And so in your case, if you used auto GPT and this, maybe we should just try this as a fun experiment. I can try it later this week. where you would describe what you did in the exact same way you described it. And then one of the agents would be like a Twitter API agent. So it would know how to interact with a Twitter API. And that's, I think, all you'd really need, right? That's all you sort of asked for. And so when you asked in the prompt to say, hey, go get the top tweets from these folks, it would know how to use an agent that interacts with a Twitter API. In the same way we saw the plugin interact with Instacart, it would go get those tweets.

39:40And then it can do the summaries and all that on its own. It already knows how to do that without that. So it's the really open AI plugins are like a sort of a version of what we're seeing with these auto GPTs. It's allowing the LLMs to have agent capabilities outside of its constrained world that it lives in.

40:01This is going to change everything. These were called intelligent agents in the 90s. There was a company called General Magic. this was founded in 1990 i remember this i was 19 years old when this thing was founded to sgi competitor to sgi at that point and what general magic did was they made a small device um and man this had some of the most amazing people's in mountain view uh they made us and they had this product called magic cap this was the operating system long before ios and android we're talking decades um and um i had a programming language called telescript now what it did that was so fascinating was it would have agents they came up with this concept of a personal digital assistant and agents and it would go out you tell it i want flights this is before the internet and the web before the web go out and find me flights to japan that leave on these days this is before those databases existed and it would go out and try to go find the stuff it actually went public on the nasdaq in february 1995 um and i don't know what's a movie about this company there's a documentary about it yeah yeah general magic the magic cap os was really really powerful and this is in a way what that is right it's a it's it's agents that are operating forever and there by the way is the sony version of it and you see they used a desk when i say a desktop metaphor a literal desk on a like you know 2d view of it and you would click on phone you click on schedule you click on your files your rolodex all this stuff but it would go send these you know little agents out genies or whatever they were called um to do this and i think this is what we now have is that you can just write a script to go do this forever and then these things can talk to each other couldn't they and refine i pull up an example here yeah this would be great thank you now that i've taken everybody down memory lane so this is two times bigger in terms of font like maybe yeah yeah sorry yeah there we go how's that all right so you have the plugins here so what you see at the top of chat gpt is plugins so i i've enabled to in this case open ai and kayak open table oh sorry open table and kayak and there's a store here yeah and you can see how do you how do you enable that sonny you have to apply you have to be you have to be a developer of making plugins right now and so here's my prompt now and you know regular open ai would not be able to do this, right?

42:47So find me a, let's call this, oops, let's say direct flight tomorrow morning from San Francisco to New York and recommend me a restaurant in New York after I land. Just, you know. And so we'll kick this off. I'll probably have to speed this up because it'll take a second. And so here you go. So what you see it's doing is now, to your point, J. Kyle's using an agent. In this case, the agent is Kayak to find out about the flight. um and you can see it's basically uh you know given kayak something here and you know it'll um now one of the issues is having is there's so much usage of this these uh api endpoints are not returning quick enough sometimes and so you can actually we had an error here so it's uh you can see open table is barfing but the idea is um that uh it it's able to do sort of what you ask and so here are the non-stop flights and then after you land oh so i'd actually came back i had the air the first time and so going back here was our prompt and so here's the flights and here you can kind of go and book them and then here's some restaurants uh for lunch tomorrow after you land amazing uh and now you could do a follow-up there and say um which one has the highest rated business class so let's try that which one has the highest rated business class of those three and which of these restaurants um has the highest reviews on yelp could do we add yelp to this mix yet no there's no yelp there's no yelp there's no yelp yet yeah see yelp is not going to want to give this up yelp is going to build their own interface i think for this but maybe they'll have no choice um and which uh of the restaurants has yeah but they're not real um has highest rated business class and which of the restaurants uh you recommend with the high now i do um and which restaurants have the highest rated hamburger just see if it can go down to a dish level yeah i don't think so but right all right you never know because it might go out into the open web to find that right because it still has open web as part of it right No, you have to use a different version of OpenAI of the setup.

45:11I'll show you up top if you wanted to go out to the web to do that. Well, no, no, but I know that I can search the open web, but does this also have the corpus of non-OpenTable, you know, the previous, like, up to November crawl of the web? So here's, see, here's what it's done here. So it's giving us a quick overview. Yeah. Yeah. see it's not even giving you like the highest rated so it's going to take a little time but it did tell you that mint is jet blues and then polaris business class is united's which is actually very true yeah and it does give you what they provide it's kind of neat actually you know what like if you were to ask this question to a uh a travel agent this would be what this is simulating what a travel agent would be doing in the background they would be checking open table they'll be checking you remember these plugins are only you know 10 days old like ask yourself where the app store would siri ever add this vinnie to their product like you look at alexa and you look at siri this would be so much better with a you know if i would had my air pods in and was talking to siri and all siri can do for me right now is play a certain song when i'm you know going down west ridge you know i'm like play you know this song uh from youtube music and uh you know the live version of sultans of swing from live aid and i i can do that but i can't say make me a reservation or tell me what reservations are available at great gold and truckie tonight for four or a similar restaurant it's coming alexa can do that so alexa's got the skills that you can use.

46:57It's not great. It's clunky. But Alexa can do it. Siri, they've never really taken it that far. I think Apple is definitely looking to this and realizing they have to. Can I share why? I believe it's because LLMs are actually better reasoning engines than knowledge retrieval systems. And I think that's the real breakthrough here. Let's explain what those two things are. LLM versus knowledge system. Yeah, so So what we've mostly had to this point in technology is knowledge retrieval systems. So we give it a task and or we ask it something and go retrieve that information. But it was just following instructions and not reasoning through anything I've said.

47:41And so to your point, J.Cow, when you're like, hey, play me this song, that's like a knowledge retrieval task, right? It's not knowledge in that case, but it's going and finding the song and playing it. what the llms are starting to you know be able to do is reason through things through all of the training that they've uh acquired and so that's creating this sort of superpower capability um in terms of being first of all being able to interact with it in sort of much more natural language and then beyond that for it to kind of um go through additional steps and reason through a problem and that's that's where we're starting to see this huge advancement it's just not what siri was ever you know built for or built around and and google to that extent right it was those were things that you had a specific question and find it for you yeah see when you're when you're using a knowledge system it's based essentially on a database and it's based on heuristics and rules and the rules are set in a in a what you're saying a kind of rigid way these are restaurants these are ratings this is their location and you know this is the number of reviews okay you can act against those fields in some sort of you know and boolean way give me restaurants that are within a a mile of me that have five stars but you can't say what are the best restaurants in brooklyn let me let me give you uh exactly or let or say if you say which of these two is better because that better would require, like you'd have to give your query some form of understanding around what better means, either rating wise or number of reviews wise.

49:24But when you ask OpenAI which is better, it can reason through it. And without giving it a definition of better, it will give you a response between two things. It's wild. All because so much knowledge has been indexed inside of it and it's guessing the next word uh based upon knowledge that it's seen before yeah it's you know kind of again the similar way to our brains work right a bunch of all the little pieces give us the ability to reason what's better than the other one it's so wild that you know one of the things i feel like's happening vinnie is it's not that we're learning how impressive chat gpt4 is and ai can be and lms can be i think what we're realizing is how simple our brains are that's what i think is actually the big revelation here our brains are not actually that complicated we say you know the best hamburger you can get quickly when you're on a road trip is in and out in and out it's like literally in and out just came into all our brains but there are higher end hamburger joints that emulated in and out at twice the price including Rome uh Shake Shack and Five Guys I don't know I don't like Shake Shack but Rome is pretty good down in Union yeah J.